NationStates Jolt Archive


Insomnia leads to strange things

Prussia-Sigmaringen
12-04-2008, 09:48
I can't seem to sleep for more than about a half hour at a time ... which is annoying as hell. So, as I often do, when I'm insomniac, my mind turns to history, and how things could've turned out. I'm an MA student in history, so yeah, it's on my mind a lot.

So I created this little map.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v614/Kaiser_Kris/SecondEmpire.gif

The setting is about the year 1875 to 1880. As opposed to the historical failure of Napoleon III, he found himself rather successful here. Prussia was defeated in the Franco-Prussian War, and lost the Rhineland. In additional wheelings and dealings, Napoleon has also found himself the master of Belgium, a small part of the Netherlands, Luxembourg and the Bavarian Palatinate. The small German states have been reorganized into moderately-sized units and exist largely under his protection. To the south, Napoleon has managed to assist the creation of an Italy, which for now is an uneasy ally- the continued existence of the Papal States in truncated form is a major issue for them, however.

Prussia has lost much of its most valuable territory, but has gained some compensation by annexing all of the small states of Northern Germany, giving it, for the first time in its history, a completely cohesive state territory. Also, the defeat and humiliation of Bismarck and his cohorts has led to an extensive liberalization of Prussia- which is now, truly, a constitutional monarchy with equal and universal suffrage. Austria, save for the losses of Italy and the German Confederation, remains intact and in the midsts of reorganization- will it be a German Reich, a German/Magyar Dual Monarchy or a federalized state under a constitutional monarch?

Meanwhile, to the east, Russia has largely recovered from the shocks of the Crimean War and its aftermath and looks to increase its influence to the west, but particularly to the south, where the tottering Ottoman Empire remains fair game- or so Russia believes. And what of Britain? Despite facing a colossus across the Channel- yet again, it retains a heavy maritime advantage and its vast colonial empire. The Second Empire has not yet menaced Britain directly, but that may very well change.

Should it come to war, who will Britain ally with? The Italians are, nominally at least, allies of the French. The Austrians are concerned with their own affairs. Prussia is a natural and congenial friend, and desires vengeance against France- Der Rhein ist ein deutscher Fluß! But is Prussia strong enough for the challenge? Britain's minor allies lack the strength to make an appreciable difference to the balance.

And what of Russia? That eastern colossus that, in many ways, menaces Britain- through India, just as much, if not more than France does. It is scarcely a generation since Britain and France warred together against Russia, and the Russian memory is long.

Perhaps it is unnecessary. Perhaps the Second Empire is not so insatiable as the first. But, with Europe drifting more and more under the control of the revived Bonapartes and with French businessmen, explorers and colonists expanding through North Africa, the Middle East, Indochina and gaining influence in Latin America and the Confederacy in the aftermath of US defeat- a defeat which, after all, was in large part due to Napoleon's diplomatic scheming- perhaps it is time for the British Lion and the Gallic Rooster to go to war again.
SaintB
12-04-2008, 12:27
Interesting alternate history but uhmm... why?
Prussia-Sigmaringen
12-04-2008, 13:27
Because I couldn't sleep and when I can't sleep, my brain tends to wander.
Call to power
12-04-2008, 14:47
*pokes around on your photobucket account*

er I can see your a Natalie Portman* fan but whats with all the men? :p

*yes she was that hot that only comes from being batshit insane in Garden state but still...
Copiosa Scotia
12-04-2008, 15:21
I can't be the only one reminded of Diplomacy here.
Prussia-Sigmaringen
12-04-2008, 18:45
Call to Power- Sources for player Icons for RPs I've been in over the years, not all actually for myself, though. I haven't really used the account much in recent years, though. Probably gonna change that.

Strangely enough, I've never actually played Diplomacy, although I've certainly heard of it. I have a tendency to just think up alt-histories more or less on the drop of a hat. I'm a grad student in history, so I tend to pretty much live and breathe the stuff. Good thing too, because graduate school is certainly not for the faint of heart.
Brutland and Norden
12-04-2008, 19:27
Should it come to war, who will Britain ally with?
Portugal. They have a treaty back in the 1370s. :D
Prussia-Sigmaringen
12-04-2008, 19:33
Portugal. They have a treaty back in the 1370s. :D

Indeed, but Britain's going to need more support than that. Even an Anglo-Prussian alliance would probably need a third Great Power party to really outpower Greater France and its satellites.
Nanatsu no Tsuki
12-04-2008, 19:39
If I may, let me suggest you take sleeping aids when insomnia hits. If you keep this up, you´ll end up trying to unscrew American history and, dear, that might just be your undoing. *nod* :)
Prussia-Sigmaringen
12-04-2008, 19:52
If I may, let me suggest you take sleeping aids when insomnia hits. If you keep this up, you´ll end up trying to unscrew American history and, dear, that might just be your undoing. *nod* :)

Well, I don't think American history is really all that much worse than that of many other countries. Particularly since my biggest interest is in German history. Great Powers, superpowers and hyperpowers end up doing nasty things pretty much out of their basic existence as powerful states, IMO.
Brutland and Norden
12-04-2008, 20:02
Indeed, but Britain's going to need more support than that. Even an Anglo-Prussian alliance would probably need a third Great Power party to really outpower Greater France and its satellites.
Sweden. *nod*

Hey, they were allies in the Napoleonic Wars...
Prussia-Sigmaringen
12-04-2008, 20:14
Sweden. *nod* Hey, they were allies in the Napoleonic Wars...

It'd be a possibility certainly, but by the late 19th century, Sweden's days as a Great Power have been gone for ages. In the end, the British are really going to have to draw either Austria or Russia into the war, which means dealing with a lot of diplomatic headaches.

Either that or try to wrench the German minor states out of the French orbit and accept a semi-'cold war' situtation, in which Prussia and Britain rein in the French, but at the same time, lack the decisive strength to finish off the Empire.
Brutland and Norden
12-04-2008, 20:21
Well then, if you like a World War...

Britain, Portugal, Sweden, Prussia, Austria, Bavaria, Ottoman Empire
vs.
France, Russia, Denmark, Serbia, Romania, Greece

Italy, Spain, and the Netherlands are tossups.
Evil Turnips
12-04-2008, 20:24
Who is to say that War is ineveitable?

If the French and the British were to limit themselves to colonial expansion, the cold war between the two Great Powers and Prussia could act in much the same way as Pax Britannia did.
Prussia-Sigmaringen
12-04-2008, 20:40
Who is to say that War is ineveitable?

If the French and the British were to limit themselves to colonial expansion, the cold war between the two Great Powers and Prussia could act in much the same way as Pax Britannia did.

I don't think that it is- I alluded in the last post about an Anglo-Prussian alliance acting as a sort of counterbalance to Greater France. Prussia's a liberal constituional monarchy now, so it's a natural ally of Britain. If the German minors can be wrenched out of the French orbit and an arrangment can be made to satisfy Prussian honour bloodlessly, the chances are rather good. The French may insist on the Rhine frontier, but perhaps North German unification and the organization of Baden, Wurttemburg and Bavaria into a South German federation would work.

The other big headache, on the French side, is the Papacy, which it is stuck supporting due to domestic issues, much to the chagrin of their Italian allies. The French might have to swallow that pill and let Italy seize Rome.

If Austria follows Britain and Prussia and Russia follows France, you have a rather stable world system. Or a recipe for disaster. Like so many things, it can go either way.
Brutland and Norden
12-04-2008, 21:15
Let's say the goal is to defeat France. Of course, there is Britain and Portugal and Sweden :D, but let's see...

Bavaria will most likely stay with Austria's side. Baden and Württemberg, not that sure. The success would lie on the ability of Prussia, Austria, and Bavaria to unite, and their ability to hold off the possibility of Italy, Russia, Denmark and the smaller Balkan states to enter the war on the French side and tie them down on a two front war.

Italy's reunification is not possible were it not for French intervention; and this reunification is directed against Austria, which controls the Italians' terra irredenta. Should Italy enter the war on the French side, one of the concessions they might extract is the Papal States. If France refuses, Italy will most likely stay neutral.

Denmark has some grudge after Prussia seized Schleswig-Holstein. Therefore, it might be inclined to join France, but being surrounded by Sweden-Norway and Prussia, and being vulnerable to the Royal Navy, it might remain neutral.

Russia is keen to regain back control of the Black Sea after the Crimean War, and could side with France. However, Russia's chief bankers are Britain and Prussia; France supported a Polish uprising; and Prussia and Russia are cozying up with each other. For Russia to stay neutral, Prussia must mediate between Austria and Russia, the rivals in the Balkans; and the powder keg of the Balkans must be suppressed. Should there be a movement of the south Slavs (Serbia, Montenegro) against Austria, they are in for a problem. Unless, of course, the Ottoman Empire comes to Austria's succor, which by then, entangled Austria and Ottomans versus Russia and the smaller balkan states (S&M, Romania, Greece). Russia could then seek help from and seek to help France, and them Germans are dead meat.

Spain and the Netherlands are tossups. And oh, I won't forget Mexico. After the French invasion of Mexico, Mexico would surely side against France. :)
New Genoa
12-04-2008, 21:23
If you're an insomniac make sure your alter ego doesn't take over your body while you're sleeping and create an underground fighting club that leads to anarchistic terrorist group intent on causing mass chaos and mayhem. That's all the advice I have. k, cya.
Mad hatters in jeans
12-04-2008, 21:26
If you're an insomniac make sure your alter ego doesn't take over your body while you're sleeping and create an underground fighting club that leads to anarchistic terrorist group intent on causing mass chaos and mayhem. That's all the advice I have. k, cya.

hey...that's what i was going to say.:(
But really, to OP you should watch fight club, it's weird. the only part i don't like is Brad Pitt, ironically he's the perfect guy to play the character because he's an ass.
Prussia-Sigmaringen
12-04-2008, 21:28
The French, though, have serious interests in the Ottoman Empire, economically. All things considered, I think it most likely that Russia sits out, unless someone comes up with a really good offer. But it's possible, yes.

The other thing with the French, of course, is that Napoleon III was big into nationality rights, and well, Poland in particular.
Prussia-Sigmaringen
12-04-2008, 21:35
hey...that's what i was going to say.:(
But really, to OP you should watch fight club, it's weird. the only part i don't like is Brad Pitt, ironically he's the perfect guy to play the character because he's an ass.

I keep planning to- I really should.