NationStates Jolt Archive

A thread here last week had me wondering if you could sue the Catholic church to get your soul back. If you gave it over to the church when you were christened, you weren't old enough to consent. Can't get it back? Can you sue for damages? Pain and suffering? Anything? Let's run with this.


Cat-Tribe or Neo Art care to comment? Feel free to theorize.

No.

Sure, in todays society of frivolous lawsuits and preposterous settlements you could probably get into court, and they might settle just to get the whole thing over with, but no, you have no case.

No.

Sure, in todays society of frivolous lawsuits and preposterous settlements you could probably get into court, and they might settle just to get the whole thing over with, but no, you have no case.Oh, play with it a bit.:p

A thread here last week had me wondering if you could sue the Catholic church to get your soul back. If you gave it over to the church when you were christened, you weren't old enough to consent. Can't get it back? Can you sue for damages? Pain and suffering? Anything? Let's run with this.


Cat-Tribe or Neo Art care to comment? Feel free to theorize.

You couldn't "get your soul back" as it would require the government to recognize the existance of a soul in order to computate damages for having such soul removed from you. The government can't issue injunctive relief to have the church return your soul to you insofar as the government can't recognize the existance of such a soul.

As for suing for damages as a result of being christened without your consent, what form would these damages take? If you could demonstrate actual real world harm manifested by being christened without your consent...maybe.

HEHE!!!

Your parents gave consent to have you christened in the church. As such...

:D

I think it would be more effective to steal it back. Canon lawyers are notoriously underhanded.

Stealing it would be tricky, though. You had have to get into the Vatican vaults, past the Vatican curators and sub-curators, find the soul catalog (which hasn't been computerized), find the location of said soul, then somehow release it back into yourself. If you break any of the other containers, you'll have souls running around everywhere looking for bodies to inhabit. The right soul might not get back into the right body. Imagine what would happen if Hitler's soul (I believe Hitler was baptized Catholic) got into the Pope.

Doesn't the government basically recognize there is a god by having references to god on money and in the pledge? So how would recognizing a soul stretch this too much?

For protestants, the confirmation at around age 14-15 is the point where you decide whether you want to stay christened or not. At least here in Germany Age 14 is the age at which you freely can decide over your confession.

The Catholics communion is kind of coming at an too early age imo. They should wait up for the kids to mature to a lever where they actually can decide not just nod with the head.

magine what would happen if Hitler's soul (I believe Hitler was baptized Catholic) got into the Pope.
In b4 someone replies "not much" ;)

Doesn't the government basically recognize there is a god by having references to god on money and in the pledge? So how would recognizing a soul stretch this too much?

difference between "government" and "courts". Damages are perscribed in legal fashion, can only receive damages for that which you had lost. Receiving damages for your "lost soul" would require the courts to accept the existance of the soul

As for suing for damages as a result of being christened without your consent, what form would these damages take?

Well.. one could convert to a religion that considers being baptised a sure way to hell.

If you could demonstrate actual real world harm manifested by being christened without your consent...maybe.

Ah. Real world. Trickier.
Circumsized Jews would have a better case.

HEHE!!!

Your parents gave consent to have you christened in the church. As such...
But it's like your parents marrying you off at 13 and being told when you're 20 you may not get a divorce. It's for life.

Well.. one could convert to a religion that considers being baptised a sure way to hell.

Hmm, which would require the catholic church to "renounce your baptism" in order to spare you from hell?

Interesting. Obviously the courts can not rule on the truth of ralseness of the belief, however can certainly find that you do HAVE that belief. On the other hand what would the "renouncement" take? Is there such a ceremony? The government surely can't force a church to perform a religious ceremony "renouncing" your baptism.

At best what the court could do is grant injunctive relief to require the church to strip your name from any membership records and mailing lists, effectively scrubbing you from its (real world) membership.

Whether they could force the church to part ways with your soul...I just can't see a legal theory that would allow for this.

If in some weird alternate world, you had to take this case, what would you do? How would you procede?

Whether they could force the church to part ways with your soul...I just can't see a legal theory that would allow for this.

Is it possible to argue that damage is in the eye of the beholder ? Emotional damage and so on ?

Is it possible to argue that damage is in the eye of the beholder ? Emotional damage and so on ?

well there are two forms of emotional distress. Intentional infliction of emotional distress and negligent infliction of emotional distress. Despite the name, the intentional tort does not mean you intentionally caused emotional distress, but that you intentionally did an act, and in doing so it caused emotional distress. However for that claim to work, it must be "heinous and beyond the standards of civilized decency or utterly intolerable in a civilized society". Something so bad, vile, and despicable, that no reasonable person could be expected to bear it.

I'm not seeing it here.

the catholic church doesnt have your soul, you do. you are only put on the rolls of the church.

is it possible to sue for removal of your name on the list of baptised catholics? maybe somewhere in the world.

The Catholics communion is kind of coming at an too early age imo. They should wait up for the kids to mature to a lever where they actually can decide not just nod with the head.
They did not wait for me to become a lever when I took my First Holy Communion back when I was six years old. :mad:

:D

I thought Catholics were baptised not christened.

You couldn't "get your soul back" as it would require the government to recognize the existance of a soul in order to computate damages for having such soul removed from you. The government can't issue injunctive relief to have the church return your soul to you insofar as the government can't recognize the existance of such a soul.

As for suing for damages as a result of being christened without your consent, what form would these damages take? If you could demonstrate actual real world harm manifested by being christened without your consent...maybe.

can I sue my mother for modifying my body cosmetically without my consent? I have the scars for the rest of my life, it's caused me undue emotional trauma and since everyone can see the scars I am reminded daily of her act.

HEHE!!!

Your parents gave consent to have you christened in the church. As such...

This brings us the conclusion of: Don´t sue the Church. Sue your parents!!

As for suing for damages as a result of being christened without your consent

Well, wouldn't your parents, as your legal guardians, and your godparents, as your sponsors, be the ones responsible rather than the Catholic Church? The church doesn't stalk infants, kidnap them, and forcibly baptize them in the world *I* live in -- parents and sponsors bring you to the church and request it.

I thought Catholics were baptised not christened.

The terms are, as far as I have experienced, interchangeable.

A thread here last week had me wondering if you could sue the Catholic church to get your soul back. If you gave it over to the church when you were christened, you weren't old enough to consent. Can't get it back? Can you sue for damages? Pain and suffering? Anything? Let's run with this.


Cat-Tribe or Neo Art care to comment? Feel free to theorize.
Didn't you identify yourself as an atheist? If you are a self proclaimed atheist then your soul belongs to the devil an as such, if you want it back, you will have to sue the devil. God luck!! :p

I feel like this would be more convincing if it involved a once-saved-always-saved church instead of the Catholics. :)

Well, wouldn't your parents, as your legal guardians, and your godparents, as your sponsors, be the ones responsible rather than the Catholic Church? The church doesn't stalk infants, kidnap them, and forcibly baptize them in the world *I* live in -- parents and sponsors bring you to the church and request it.

And the church complies. It could also answer "no, not until he is older".

Compare it with the parents offering their 6 year old daughter up for sex. Or to have her whole body tattood with political slogans.

The parents are obviously at fault, but so is the person that accepts the offer and actually performs the requested action.

well there are two forms of emotional distress. Intentional infliction of emotional distress and negligent infliction of emotional distress. Despite the name, the intentional tort does not mean you intentionally caused emotional distress, but that you intentionally did an act, and in doing so it caused emotional distress. However for that claim to work, it must be "heinous and beyond the standards of civilized decency or utterly intolerable in a civilized society". Something so bad, vile, and despicable, that no reasonable person could be expected to bear it.

I'm not seeing it here.

Claiming you took someones essence and will be certain to dispose of it in a certain way is not sufficient, because noone can prove the existence and taking of the essence ? The claim alone that something was done to the soul is not enough ?

Intruiging. If I were to publicly declare I had infected you with a deadly sexually transferrable disease - what would be the possible steps one could take against me if if the actual act of infecting or even the disease itself cannot be proven to exist ? After all, society will look at you in a different way as a result of my actions, which can be damaging to your enjoyment of life. Not to mention having lived in fear of suffering from a deadly illness.

well hold on, we're talking about two different things. One is the theoretical baptism of your soul. The other is what damages you might suffer as a result of being told that your soul was baptised, and all the stuff therein.

You can't really bring a cause of action against a church for doing something TO YOUR SOUL because that would require proving the soul EXISTS.

However if you could demonstrate that you were harmed as a result of being TOLD about the catholic beliefs, and it traumatized you, that's different. The beliefs need not be true to affect you, and the court need not reach a conclusion as to whether it is true in order to determine if you suffered emotional harm.

The court would have to find that it was of sufficiently bad conduct however, and that's very hard to do.

So basicly one needs to change society to detest the idea of this particular ceremony to have a case.

Tricky. Gimme 10 years.