NationStates Jolt Archive

Genius Sofiah Yusof went to Oxford University when she was 13 years old. Now she's 23 and she's working as ... high class hooker.

Better yet, she's extremely uber HOT!

I'm gonna start saving up - I wanna get me some of that body, er brain, er, no I was right the first time :D

As she is now, age 23

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/0604_hooker.shtml

<don't post links to boobies, even on 'respectable' news sites>


As she was then, age 13

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/04/05/nprodigy105.xml

It's nice work if you can get it...

Though sucks about her father molesting her and all the rest.

not that hot but I guess she could do your shopping or something :p

this part however:

Eight years on, he is now in jail for sexually assaulting two girl pupils

who saw this coming? and this highlights a theory I have that high achievers are in fact idiots (as most decent people I know where fairly good in school until 8-ish)

Sufiah Yusof reveals how she drives men wild... by reciting EQUATIONS to her clients as they have sex.

who the hell goes wild for equations duing sex?

who the hell goes wild for equations duing sex?

Other maths whizzes at oxford I guess.

Better yet, she's extremely uber HOT!

Meh

who the hell goes wild for equations duing sex?

http://www.math.kth.se/~gunnarj/SM2/SMA2/int21.gif

*tweaks nipples*

The photoshopping does make her more attractive.

It isn't very surprising since intelligence =/= good judgement.

That and high class strippers get paid more than mathamaticians, and have better hours. So maybe she does have good judgement.

Click Stand;13587630']It isn't very surprising since intelligence =/= good judgement.

That and high class strippers get paid more than mathamaticians, and have better hours. So maybe she does have good judgement.

But she could have gone into big business or into banking or loads of very high paying work with a brain like that.

http://www.math.kth.se/~gunnarj/SM2/SMA2/int21.gif

= (0)(0) !!!!

Other maths whizzes at oxford I guess.
ok that just points out they carzy and one should keep away
http://www.math.kth.se/~gunnarj/SM2/SMA2/int21.gif

*tweaks nipples*

ok i think i need to move along now

But she could have gone into big business or into banking or loads of very high paying work with a brain like that.

But strippers set their own work time! You seem to forget how amazing it is being a stripper.:)

Click Stand;13587644']But strippers set their own work time! You seem to forget how amazing it is being a stripper.:)
If I strip wallpaper off homes, can I set my own time?

If I strip wallpaper off homes, can I set my own time?

Sure, but I don't think people like strippers breaking into their house at 2 in the morning.

Not sure your 2nd link is valid with the exposed tits and all. But this just goes to prove my point about women having it easier. She's obviously smart and could get a good job somewhere. But is she doing it? No, because she makes a lot more renting herself out.

Not sure your 2nd link is valid with the exposed tits and all. But this just goes to prove my point about women having it easier. She's obviously smart and could get a good job somewhere. But is she doing it? No, because she makes a lot more renting herself out.

I could easily make money renting myself out I can assure you :) (and so do many men)

Not the best-looking woman I've ever seen, but certainly very attractive.

But she could have gone into big business or into banking or loads of very high paying work with a brain like that.

No connection. Being a math prodigy =/= jobs in banking.

No connection. Being a math prodigy =/= jobs in banking.

If you have a good maths degree, you can basically get any job. My cousin did maths and logic at Cambridge and he has barely any social skills at all, rather withdrawn and not too good with people, yet he still managed to easily get a high paying job in banking and lives in central London.

If you have a good maths degree, you can basically get any job. My cousin did maths and logic at Cambridge and he has barely any social skills at all, rather withdrawn and not too good with people, yet he still managed to easily get a high paying job in banking and lives in central London.

Being a math prodigy also =/= a good degree, and a 'good' degree has little to do with knowing anything or any kind of talent in the field.

In the UK, now, any degree puts you on the ladder - I've seen people with Divinity degrees get high paying jobs for bluechip companies in entirely unrelated fields. And - let's be honest - even on the exec ladder, entry level at a bank isn't going to be 130 an hour.

Being a math prodigy also =/= a good degree, and a 'good' degree has little to do with knowing anything or any kind of talent in the field.

In the UK, now, any degree puts you on the ladder - I've seen people with Divinity degrees get high paying jobs for bluechip companies in entirely unrelated fields. And - let's be honest - even on the exec ladder, entry level at a bank isn't going to be 130 an hour.

But in maths you tend to get familiar with very complex algorithms which are absolutely essential in banking and people with a firm understanding are apparently in very high demand. I'm also saying that with a person like her, there is definitely loads of potential for her to be able to climb up the ladder quickly and be earning loads.

It's nice work if you can get it...

Though sucks about her father molesting her and all the rest.

I don't think it said that.

It said her father moleseted some other girls and that he became violent and angry with her. But I don't think it said he molested his daughter.

I don't like the tone of the articles. They seem to be saying 'oh look at this poor girl whose life is out of control'

It's not that uncommon. Varsity (Cambridge uni newspaper) ran an article a while ago about students working as escorts, and even strippers, in their spare evenings and weekends. Beauty and intelligence seemed to be their selling point, and if it's enjoyable, then why not? Start paying off the debt quickly.

But in maths you tend to get familiar with very complex algorithms which are absolutely essential in banking and people with a firm understanding are apparently in very high demand. I'm also saying that with a person like her, there is definitely loads of potential for her to be able to climb up the ladder quickly and be earning loads.

Complex algorithms which are absolutely essential in banking, hmmm? Yes - I'd imagine that most bank execs calculate compound interest in their heads - forgoing those new-fangled calculating machines and their numbercrunching demon technology.

Most people I know with degrees have little or no clue about application of anything they studied - and that's as true in math as anywhere... and that's just one of the reasons why a math degree has little or nothing to do with any level of ability - even for the prodigy.

And - I'm not even wanting to get into how much harder it would be for an 'ethnic' female to get a decent shot on the exec ladder in a business environment that is still primarily WASP-male.

Why is it a waste?

She's able to serve others instead of just using her skills for herself. ;)

Complex algorithms which are absolutely essential in banking, hmmm? Yes - I'd imagine that most bank execs calculate compound interest in their heads - forgoing those new-fangled calculating machines and their numbercrunching demon technology.


You don't have to be an exec to be high paying, my cousin isn't.


Most people I know with degrees have little or no clue about application of anything they studied - and that's as true in math as anywhere... and that's just one of the reasons why a math degree has little or nothing to do with any level of ability - even for the prodigy.


It's easy to learn how to apply your skills, especially if you're a genius like her.


And - I'm not even wanting to get into how much harder it would be for an 'ethnic' female to get a decent shot on the exec ladder in a business environment that is still primarily WASP-male.

I think this is inaccurately cynical.

And - I'm not even wanting to get into how much harder it would be for an 'ethnic' female to get a decent shot on the exec ladder in a business environment that is still primarily WASP-male.
Being 'ethnic' I think has a higher probability of limiting her career in the appearance based industry she is in now.

Genius Sofiah Yusof went to Oxford University when she was 13 years old. Now she's 23 and she's working as ... high class hooker.

Better yet, she's extremely uber HOT!

I'm gonna start saving up - I wanna get me some of that body, er brain, er, no I was right the first time :D

As she is now, age 23

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/0604_hooker.shtml

<Link with lots of bare boobies deleted>


Pretty sure that second link is against forum rules (not that I'm COMPLAINING mind you, just warning you you might get in trouble for it.).

Not sure the source here is credible . . . isn't NOTW one of those "Bigfoot had my space alien baby" rags?

If true, this is a tragic waste. I don't understand why anyone would choose such a crass and shallow profession, but to think that a mind like that could achieve such great things to better the world, as opposed to just giving a few horny guys a good time.:(

I don't think it said that.

It didn't need to say it.

who the hell goes wild for equations duing sex?

You + Me = Fun all night

Tongue +....

Yeah, you get it

It didn't need to say it.

I could see where you get the idea. But I wuoldn't be 100% certain that she was molested.

I could see where you get the idea. But I wuoldn't be 100% certain that she was molested.

I wouldn't be 100% certain of most things, really, but that's not what cynicism is about. It's about clarity.

It's even sadder if she was molested, given how that can screw a person up sexually (among other things).

On one hand, I think it's very sad. Going to university at such a young age would have restricted her ability to just enjoy her childhood. Add that to the abuse she experienced, and you've created a young girl with a lot of problems. She must've been quite gorgeous, and being a good looking girl can be quite a struggle. She would already be uncomfortable sexually, and she would have then been surrounded by older men who could have made her feel objectified. With this combination it's certainly understandable (and somewhat heartbreaking) that she took this path.

However, if she was so smart, she could have overcome her demons. A lot of women go through similar struggles in life, and there comes a time when you have to make a choice: do I go down the 'wrong' track, or do I make something better for myself? She was given one of the best oppertunities imaginable, but she didn't take advantage of it. No amount of abuse or hardship is an excuse for not making a good life for yourself.

Others might argue that she has a good life, but in my opinion she is objectifing and surrendering herself and wasting her talent and education.

It's even sadder if she was molested, given how that can screw a person up sexually (among other things).

Yes, it can.

It's still not an excuse, though.

She's lucky in some ways - from having spent a childhood on the ALP, with no social life and huge restrictions she now gets to do what she wants - she sees 5-10 clients a week, goes shopping, hangs around and enjoys a little freedom.

A very different life to 90% of call girls and I suppose the same criticism can be made as per Pretty Woman. She makes it look enticing as an option - most troubling is the fact that she entered partly due to being in debt and the fact is that there's many, many people in debt and this kind of makes being a call girl a reasonable option for getting out of that.

Whatever, I guess she enjoys it although I suspect some of this is aimed at causing huge anger in her father.

To be honest, she seems to be underselling herself.

It's still not an excuse, though.

Such luck for her she has nothing to excuse to anyone, least of all you.

Such luck for her she has nothing to excuse to anyone, least of all you.

Yay, the return of attitude!

In part of her NOTW video, she says that "it's the best sex she's ever had."

She loves her job, she's making money. I don't think any true capitalist could complain. Supply and demand are happy, she's happy, her clients are happy. Where's the problem?

In part of her NOTW video, she says that "it's the best sex she's ever had."

She loves her job, she's making money. I don't think any true capitalist could complain. Supply and demand are happy, she's happy, her clients are happy. Where's the problem?

While I admit my experience with prostitutes is limited, I don't think they tell clients that they find having sex with them for cash degrading.

While I admit my experience with prostitutes is limited, I don't think they tell clients that they find having sex with them for cash degrading.

She wasn't talking to her clients. And I don't think a prostitute would ever say it's best sex she's ever had if it weren't true.

While I admit my experience with prostitutes is limited, I don't think they tell clients that they find having sex with them for cash degrading.

Actually, a considerable amount of johns are into degradation.

She wasn't talking to her clients. And I don't think a prostitute would ever say it's best sex she's ever had if it weren't true.

Ah, I wasn't aware she had given a formal interview. I saw the original article in the NotW where she was secretly filmed by a reporter posing as a client, I thought that was the interview you meant.

Actually, a considerable amount of johns are into degradation.

Well yeah, it could be appealing to some. On the other hand, some fat sweaty old men actually believe that the girl is turned on by them.

That must make the parents wonder: "Did we put too much pressure on her?".

I would reply with: "YES!". Although it may have nothing to do with her being a hooker right now.

Maybe she figured that being a prostitute is a lot more honest than being a corporate whore.

Maybe she figured that being a prostitute is a lot more honest than being a corporate whore.

In what exactly is it more honest? Corporate whores usually don't steal from anyone.

Edit: Not that prostitutes do. I just meant it's pretty much the same.

In what exactly is it more honest? Corporate whores usually don't steal from anyone.

Edit: Not that prostitutes do. I just meant it's pretty much the same.

Prostitutes usually don't pretend they haven't compromised their personal values and beliefs.

Well yeah, it could be appealing to some. On the other hand, some fat sweaty old men actually believe that the girl is turned on by them.

Why can't she be both? Well, at least they could think so. "Yeah, you like it, don't you, you worthless whore!!!"

If someone who could potentially be a great high-class call girl decides to go into engineering instead, no one's going to complain that her beauty and sexual prowess are going to waste. Strikes me as a bit of a double standard, to be honest.

Prostitutes usually don't pretend they haven't compromised their personal values and beliefs.

I actually got the impression of exactly that kind of pretense from her comments in the article.

If someone who could potentially be a great high-class call girl decides to go into engineering instead, no one's going to complain that her beauty and sexual prowess are going to waste. Strikes me as a bit of a double standard, to be honest.

It's more symptomatic of a reaction from people in a Western country with a sex-is-sinful-and-shameful religion or philosophy to someone who's actually comfortable or even proud of selling him or herself for sexual favors.

Not sure the source here is credible . . . isn't NOTW one of those "Bigfoot had my space alien baby" rags?

This one is true. I know the country where she was born, and news articles there were run about her fall. Unsurprisingly, they downplayed the bit about her father being a totalitarian educator from hell and not really a parent.

Ah, I wasn't aware she had given a formal interview. I saw the original article in the NotW where she was secretly filmed by a reporter posing as a client, I thought that was the interview you meant.

This was the "video of [her] during a photo shoot" bit available on the first OP link.

If someone who could potentially be a great high-class call girl decides to go into engineering instead, no one's going to complain that her beauty and sexual prowess are going to waste. Strikes me as a bit of a double standard, to be honest.

Excellent point.

Genius Sofiah Yusof went to Oxford University when she was 13 years old. Now she's 23 and she's working as ... high class hooker.

Better yet, she's extremely uber HOT!

I'm gonna start saving up - I wanna get me some of that body, er brain, er, no I was right the first time :D

As she is now, age 23

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/0604_hooker.shtml

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/3003_hooker.shtml


As she was then, age 13

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/04/05/nprodigy105.xml

What incredibly biased articles. She seems quite happy with her work and herself, so I don't really see the problem here. As long as she's doing what she wants to do, I don't think there's anything wrong.

Edit: Well, the first two articles were incredibly biased.

If someone who could potentially be a great high-class call girl decides to go into engineering instead, no one's going to complain that her beauty and sexual prowess are going to waste. Strikes me as a bit of a double standard, to be honest.

I don't think so because everyone is sexually appealing to someone.

Why has no one linked to XKCD yet!? NSG has failed.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/pillow_talk.jpg

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/3003_hooker.shtml


NSFW :(

You don't have to be an exec to be high paying, my cousin isn't.



Is he a quant or some such?

Such luck for her she has nothing to excuse to anyone, least of all you.

Well, considering that the articles mention sexual assault, it suggests that it is an excuse for her behaviour. However, it could just be the media making the connection.

But thanks for the 'tude.

Click Stand;13587630']It isn't very surprising since intelligence =/= good judgement.

That and high class strippers get paid more than mathamaticians, and have better hours. So maybe she does have good judgement.

She's not a high class stripper. The OP says she's a hooker. There's a difference.

Not sure your 2nd link is valid with the exposed tits and all. But this just goes to prove my point about women having it easier. She's obviously smart and could get a good job somewhere. But is she doing it? No, because she makes a lot more renting herself out.

Your insistance that women are better off really offends me.

Do you honestly think prostitutes enjoy getting fucked over and over again by men who are only interested in their own sexual satisfaction? Do you really think that being a prostitue - someone who gets taken advantage of, objectified, and often ends up in dangerous situations involving beatings, crime and drugs - is an enjoyable way to work for money?

You are seriously deluded.

It's not that uncommon. Varsity (Cambridge uni newspaper) ran an article a while ago about students working as escorts, and even strippers, in their spare evenings and weekends. Beauty and intelligence seemed to be their selling point, and if it's enjoyable, then why not? Start paying off the debt quickly.

According to the OP, she's a hooker. Hooker =/= stripper. I highly doubt she has a debt either. I assume she would have been on a scholarship, but I should look that up.

According to the OP, she's a hooker. Hooker =/= stripper. I highly doubt she has a debt either. I assume she would have been on a scholarship, but I should look that up.

You could read the article where she states her debt of GBP3, 500 was a strong factor in why she chose the profession to help pay it off.

Poor girl. Tough life.

We all dream about being rich/famous/powerful/whatever before our time, but it never seems to actually work out well for those people who actually get it.

You could read the article where she states her debt of GBP3, 500 was a strong factor in why she chose the profession to help pay it off.

Okay, so I missed that.

It doesn't matter. She could have flipped burgers. She could have tutored.

If she's happy.

How is this wasted genius? I mean if she's making a thousand pounds for a couple hours of her time I'd say that's pretty damn good.

How is this wasted genius? I mean if she's making a thousand pounds for a couple hours of her time I'd say that's pretty damn good.

£130 an hour does not make a thousand pounds in two hours.

She's living in a dingy flat in a backstreet in Manchester. I'd say that's a waste.

It's kinda hard to know what the truth is.

One of the NOTW articles makes it all sound very glam, the other rather sad and seedy.

But, do the math.

She's charging GB Pounds 130 an hour (= just shy of $260)

That's GBP 650 a night (assuming she does five clients a night)

3,250 a week (assuming five nights working)

156,000 a year (assuming 48 weeks a year).

Remember, as an administrative assistant/secretary she was getting GBP 16,000 - nearly 10 times less.


It doesn't sound like she's being brutally exploited/forced into it like those poor girls from Eastern Europe, so good luck to her.

My only real concern is for her safety. The reporter in one of the NOTW articles reckons she didn't have any. At GBP 130 an hour she could (and should) spend out on hiring some muscle. And probably get a better place to do it from.

Apart from that, the only other problem - keeping it hidden from teh ebil TAXMAN!! NOOOOOEEEEESSSS!

That and not getting arrested and sent to prison of course.

You also have to consider future revenues, not just current ones. You'll never become too old/fat/ugly to work in an office. Hookers and strippers do (or at least such things severely reduce their earnings).

According to the OP, she's a hooker. Hooker =/= stripper.

I never said anything about the girl, I was talking about a separate article which was about both escorts and strippers who happen to be students at a top university.

I highly doubt she has a debt either. I assume she would have been on a scholarship, but I should look that up.

Debt was why she started working. Yes, she could have done some menial job and paid it off slowly over the years, but if she had the opportunity to earn more and enjoy herself more, then why not be a hooker?

You also have to consider future revenues, not just current ones. You'll never become too old/fat/ugly to work in an office. Hookers and strippers do (or at least such things severely reduce their earnings).

True. But on GBP156,000 a year, you can (if you're not out of your mind on drugs and booze or psychotic or something) can build up quite a nest-egg. And it's tax free if you can find out a way to keep it hidden from the police and the taxman.

She's what, 23 now? So, for the sake of argument, assume she turned 23 today and decides to retire when she's 35. That gives her seven years of earning 156,000 (ignoring inflation and so on). That gives her GBP 5.46m gross. And, if she's got any brains (which we know she has) then she figures out a way to invest it somewhere to make more money. For example, you could buy a house - four rooms and rent each one out at GBP 60 a room per week* and make 60 x 4 x 4 x52 = gbp 52000 a year.

And she can always get a secretarial job at the age of 35. They're fairly easy to get and they don't demand too much. Pay's not wonderful, but if you have GBP 5.46m in your back pocket, you don't really care.


*(although you actually wouldn't do that in Britain with dirty money because it's too easy to trace (money laundering rules). What she could do is rent a house (long term, therefore cheap) and then rent out each room. No money laundering rules to worry about. Then you'd go to somewhere in the world that has easy residence criteria - somewhere like Singapore - and open a bank account at a local (i.e. not international) bank. Open up a bank account there and et voila - you very own offshore bank account. Then, using wire transfer systems like Western Union or the 'hawala' Islamic money transfer system, you transfer your cash over there all sneaky like. Not that I've put any serious thought into major tax avoidance or anything).

She's what, 23 now? So, for the sake of argument, assume she turned 23 today and decides to retire when she's 35. That gives her seven years of earning 156,000 (ignoring inflation and so on). That gives her GBP 5.46m gross. And, if she's got any brains (which we know she has) then she figures out a way to invest it somewhere to make more money. For example, you could buy a house - four rooms and rent each one out at GBP 60 a room per week* and make 60 x 4 x 4 x52 = gbp 52000 a year.

12 x 156,000 does not come to 5,460,000. Also, the article says that she earns only £60k, not £156k. I'd rather have an education and experience working in a graduate standard job at 35 years old than the extra cash early on but no work experience and the rather difficult job of explaining to a prospective employer what you've been working as for the last twelve years.

Genius Sofiah Yusof went to Oxford University when she was 13 years old. Now she's 23 and she's working as ... high class hooker.

Better yet, she's extremely uber HOT!

I'm gonna start saving up - I wanna get me some of that body, er brain, er, no I was right the first time :D

As she is now, age 23

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/0604_hooker.shtml

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/3003_hooker.shtml


As she was then, age 13

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/04/05/nprodigy105.xml

Sex is more fun than math, IMHO

12 x 156,000 does not come to 5,460,000.

True. My brain went :headbang: when I tried to calculate that I think! :D


Also, the article says that she earns only £60k, not £156k.


Not entirely true. What it says is this: ""It's like they want to rescue me. One man asked me how much I earned a year. I said £60,000..."

i.e. she told the man GBP60,000. She could have been lying about it to him, seems likely given the context. The article doesn't say it though. What all three articles do have in common is gbp 130 an hour.

It also says gbp 1,000 a night in one of them, which is even better again, from her perspective. Give 240,000 a year based on 5 nights, 48 weeks. GBP 2.8m over a 12-year period.

Plus there's all the gifts that she's given - gbp 600 dress here, gbp 700 watch there. It adds up.


I'd rather have an education and experience working in a graduate standard job at 35 years old than the extra cash early on but no work experience and the rather difficult job of explaining to a prospective employer what you've been working as for the last twelve years.


Fair enough. I'll know not to give you a call the next time I want to :fluffle: a genius

It's nice work if you can get it...

Though sucks about her father molesting her and all the rest.

I knew your claims of leaving NSG behind were nothing more than the fetid mutterings of a internet-soused addict.

I don't think it said that.

It said her father moleseted some other girls and that he became violent and angry with her. But I don't think it said he molested his daughter.

I don't like the tone of the articles. They seem to be saying 'oh look at this poor girl whose life is out of control'

Yeah, it's totally unreasonable to assume that a pedophile molested his own daughter. Oh, and there was all that stuff about how he would 'teach her' by putting her in a freezer and so on.

Then again there is some more info (http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/3/31/nation/20798773&sec=nation) on her background.

Three years into Oxford, she sparked a massive police hunt after running away.

At the time her father bizarrely claimed Sufiah had been kidnapped and brainwashed by an organisation seeking the key to her intelligence.

But Sufiah sent an e-mail to her family describing her life under her father as a “living hell”.

She was found in an Internet cafe in Bournemouth where she had been working as a hotel waitress.

She refused to go back to her parents and instead was taken into the care of social services.

Well, considering that the articles mention sexual assault, it suggests that it is an excuse for her behaviour. However, it could just be the media making the connection.

But thanks for the 'tude.

I think Fass' point is that she doesn't need to excuse herself TO YOU, or anyone else.

Nothing like this has ever happened before...

Has it?

http://www.asiacarrera.com/picture/mensawriteup.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia_Carrera)


As long as it's voluntary and consentual, it's their choices.

Oh, God, what a waste...

Attractive, though...

I knew your claims of leaving NSG behind were nothing more than the fetid mutterings of a internet-soused addict.

This is the same guy who claims he doesn't give a shit about what others think of him, yet bitches to the mods about a term of grandstanding coined in his "honor." This should hardly be a surprise.

Oh, God, what a waste...


How is it a waste?

I think Fass' point is that she doesn't need to excuse herself TO YOU, or anyone else.

I understand his point.



I still think that if, hypothetically, she (or anyone) was using her abuse/history/etc as a reason for doing what she's doing, it's not a good reason.

I never said anything about the girl, I was talking about a separate article which was about both escorts and strippers who happen to be students at a top university.



Debt was why she started working. Yes, she could have done some menial job and paid it off slowly over the years, but if she had the opportunity to earn more and enjoy herself more, then why not be a hooker?

Okay, okay.


Still, I don't think being a hooker is exactly enjoyable. Degrading herself might be enjoyable for her.

Okay, okay.


Still, I don't think being a hooker is exactly enjoyable. Degrading herself might be enjoyable for her.

I don't know, I wish I could just have sex with someone and be 2000 dollars richer (the GBP is about two dollars right now?) the next day. Plus there are all the patron-gifts aside from the actual pay. Not to mention, she's an escort, and did actually leave without having sex with guys twice, so apparently she has the complete ability to choose her patrons as far as the hooking goes.

If there were more of a market for male hookers, and I was single, I'd totally do it.

Okay, okay.


Still, I don't think being a hooker is exactly enjoyable. Degrading herself might be enjoyable for her.

Unless her and her clients are engaging in kink that is SPECIFICALLY meant to be degrading then what makes you think she's being degraded by this?

Do you view sex as inherently degrading? If not then why do you seem to feel sex for money is inherently degrading?

I don't know, I wish I could just have sex with someone and be 2000 dollars richer (the GBP is about two dollars right now?) the next day. Plus there are all the patron-gifts aside from the actual pay. Not to mention, she's an escort, and did actually leave without having sex with guys twice, so apparently she has the complete ability to choose her patrons as far as the hooking goes.

If there were more of a market for male hookers, and I was single, I'd totally do it.

I understand there's a decent enough market, it's just that the market is mostly other men.

There's nothing wrong with sex in itself, but there is something creepy about making it the entire focus of your life. It's like those people who eat hot dogs competitively. Yes, it's ok to eat hot dogs, because they taste good, but when you choose to scarf them down for someone else's entertainment you've got a problem.

There's nothing wrong with sex in itself, but there is something creepy about making it the entire focus of your life.

Your job is not necessarily the entire focus of your life.

Your job is not necessarily the entire focus of your life.That's true, but the fact that she was abused makes me think that she probably developed an unhealthy obsession with sex as a result. That happens sometimes. Also there's no reason why she couldn't have gotten her degree and been a prostitute at the same time. Attempting to get a college degree and not being able to do it is a problem.

Actually, a considerable amount of johns are into degradation.

Ahhh, the voice of experience...
:p

Ahhh, the voice of experience...
:p

LOL!

This one is true. I know the country where she was born, and news articles there were run about her fall. Unsurprisingly, they downplayed the bit about her father being a totalitarian educator from hell and not really a parent.

That actually sounds kind of interesting. Could you link it?

That's true, but the fact that she was abused makes me think that she probably developed an unhealthy obsession with sex as a result.



This happens often.


Id pay her rent, decline the sex, and tell her to take the month off. This story makes me sad. Poor thing. Such a pretty, smart young girl.

Stories like this, espcially when it involves abuse, depress me.

That actually sounds kind of interesting. Could you link it?

Sorry, it's only print media that carried it. I read the newspapers when I was there at the time.

This happens often.


Id pay her rent, decline the sex, and tell her to take the month off. This story makes me sad. Poor thing. Such a pretty, smart young girl.

Stories like this, espcially when it involves abuse, depress me.

You can pay for an entire months worth of prostitutes...I mean rent!:eek:

It's more symptomatic of a reaction from people in a Western country with a sex-is-sinful-and-shameful religion or philosophy to someone who's actually comfortable or even proud of selling him or herself for sexual favors.

Oh, absolutely. That's exactly the mindset that has made more acceptable to take advantage of some genetic gifts (intelligence) than others (sexual attractiveness) in order to make a living.

I don't think so because everyone is sexually appealing to someone.

This is true to more or less exactly the same point as "everyone's smarter than someone." Someone who's sexually appealing only to a few people isn't "wasting" their potential for success in prostitution any more than someone with only marginal aptitude for applied mathematics (for example, myself) is "wasting" their potential for success in engineering, market research or investment banking by doing something less quantitative in nature.

This woman could very likely be successful in fields that require her mathematical expertise, but she has definitely been successful as a prostitute. It's a toss-up really, and any claims that she wasted her potential by becoming a prostitute ring awfully hollow in my ears, knowing that there'd be no such complaints if she'd chosen engineering or banking. As it stands, maybe she makes a less money than she would in one of these more "legitimate" careers, but she also doesn't work as hard, and by her own account she consistently enjoys her work. Maybe this is an irrational bias on my part, but I doubt I'll ever be convinced that it's a waste to make a comfortable living doing something you enjoy.

It's impossible to tell really but I very much doubt she made a rational, thought out decision on this - I think she's a prostitute for some reasonably screwed up reasons.

I'm not sure she's even half as happy as she makes out, I'd say she's in some denial but, again, I can't speak for her I guess.

One issue I have with this report is that it provides fairly strong details on who she is, where she is and more, putting her in more danger than she herself admits she's in.

I think it's a sad story, I'm not really so blase about, in the majority, girls going into this life and I think the reasons for doing so tend to be either forced circumstances or fairly dire straits.

It's really not always a choice, in fact it's rarely a choice as such and, as I wrote before, the truly irresponsible aspect of this is the implication that's it's a fun, fulfilling - puns aside - life, an easy means of getting out of debts without a considered opinion of what it gets you into.

I am a woman so I constantly wonder why men can pay for professional sex and women can't. I think men would feel a little differently about prostitution if women regularly purchased sex. This seriously bothers me....
WHY CAN'T I BUY A MAN WITH A HUGE PENIS??? WHY??? Honestly, if there was place I could go and select a man with a large penis to have sex with I would TOTALLY do it! Beats getting guys drunk, taking them home and then realizing that they have a less than inspiring package. sigh. men have it so simple!

I am a woman so I constantly wonder why men can pay for professional sex and women can't. I think men would feel a little differently about prostitution if women regularly purchased sex. This seriously bothers me....
WHY CAN'T I BUY A MAN WITH A HUGE PENIS??? WHY??? Honestly, if there was place I could go and select a man with a large penis to have sex with I would TOTALLY do it! Beats getting guys drunk, taking them home and then realizing that they have a less than inspiring package. sigh. men have it so simple!

Haven't you ever heard of male prostitutes?

It's impossible to tell really but I very much doubt she made a rational, thought out decision on this - I think she's a prostitute for some reasonably screwed up reasons.Wouldn't 'Become a famous mathematician because daddy wanted me to even though I utterly loathed the way that got me there' count as 'Screwed up reasons', too?

Wouldn't 'Become a famous mathematician because daddy wanted me to even though I utterly loathed the way that got me there' count as 'Screwed up reasons', too?

They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

Credit to Larkin

I am constantly saddened by how psychologically damaged people can be.
What I have seen here is disappointing to say the least.

I am not talking about this amazing woman, I'm talking about those posters who see sex as degrading and assume that anyone who has sex for money must be somehow 'damaged'.

I know this may come as a shock to some of you, but a lot of people actually enjoy sex. I know, tough for you to believe, but I would wager that most people do enjoy it. There is also nothing inherently 'degrading' about sex, even if it is part of entertaining a client - that comes from you own unfortunate issues with sex and sexuality.

She is doing something she really enjoys and making a lot of money doing it. What is wrong with that? I envy her - I would love to get paid that much for something I enjoyed.

I have several friends who are prostitutes - they are what you would consider 'normal' people. They are not 'damaged' and not degraded; they enjoy their work and are happy to do it. We are not talking about street walkers who are desperate to turn tricks to feed a drug habit. The majority of sex workers are in the industry out of choice, not desperation for their next hit.

Please, before criticizing a woman for enjoying sex and sex work, see a therapist about your own sexual issues (but choose wisely, many are sexually repressed themselves and will just lash out at anyone who might threated their own issues of sexual repression).

The majority of sex workers are in the industry out of choice, not desperation for their next hit.


Can we get stats on that? Or any evidence?

There's nothing wrong with sex in itself, but there is something creepy about making it the entire focus of your life. It's like those people who eat hot dogs competitively. Yes, it's ok to eat hot dogs, because they taste good, but when you choose to scarf them down for someone else's entertainment you've got a problem.

That is an awesome analogy.

That is an awesome analogy.

And a funny one at that.

Unless her and her clients are engaging in kink that is SPECIFICALLY meant to be degrading then what makes you think she's being degraded by this?

Do you view sex as inherently degrading? If not then why do you seem to feel sex for money is inherently degrading?

No, I do not view sex as inherently degrading, but I view prostitution as inherently degrading.

I believe that when given great oppertunities, it is both wrong and saddening when someone resorts to selling a part of themselves.

I don't know, I wish I could just have sex with someone and be 2000 dollars richer (the GBP is about two dollars right now?) the next day. Plus there are all the patron-gifts aside from the actual pay. Not to mention, she's an escort, and did actually leave without having sex with guys twice, so apparently she has the complete ability to choose her patrons as far as the hooking goes.

If there were more of a market for male hookers, and I was single, I'd totally do it.

Do you honestly think that hookers have a good life? It's so rare that someone becomes a "high class hooker", with the $2000 fees and perks.

There probably is a market for male hookers. Except you probably wouldn't be interested in that particular market because getting f*cked up the ass by strangers in seedy hotels doesn't seem as appealing and glamorous as earning $2000 as a "high class hooker".

Can we get stats on that? Or any evidence?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFvHEXMxrrA&feature=related

Enjoy.

Damn her.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFvHEXMxrrA&feature=related

Enjoy.

Yup, that's exactly what a thought (about EC's post). Thanks for the video.

No, I do not view sex as inherently degrading, but I view prostitution as inherently degrading.

I believe that when given great oppertunities, it is both wrong and saddening when someone resorts to selling a part of themselves.
What about guys who sell their sperm?

Many jobs involve the selling of one's hands, to put it the same way. Including my profession, music. What makes genitalia special? Accounting is the selling of your brain.

Do you honestly think that hookers have a good life? It's so rare that someone becomes a "high class hooker", with the $2000 fees and perks.

There probably is a market for male hookers. Except you probably wouldn't be interested in that particular market because getting f*cked up the ass by strangers in seedy hotels doesn't seem as appealing and glamorous as earning $2000 as a "high class hooker".

No, I don't. That's partly due to the fact that it's illegal and therefore black market, and partly due to the fact that most hookers are, like myself, not very fortunate financially. I'm not that stupid and it's a little insulting that you imply that I am. My point was that she's making a lot of money. Probably more than I will ever make in my entire life. Note how specific I was. I didn't say that I wished I was any hooker, but rather one that made $2000 a night like she can.

What about guys who sell their sperm?

Many jobs involve the selling of one's hands, to put it the same way. Including my profession, music. What makes genitalia special? Accounting is the selling of your brain.

It's slightly different - there's psychological implications in allowing your body to be used for a price over choosing to donate for what is perceived as a good cause.

No, I don't. That's partly due to the fact that it's illegal and therefore black market, and partly due to the fact that most hookers are, like myself, not very fortunate financially. I'm not that stupid and it's a little insulting that you imply that I am. My point was that she's making a lot of money. Probably more than I will ever make in my entire life. Note how specific I was. I didn't say that I wished I was any hooker, but rather one that made $2000 a night like she can.

Yet where it's legal, the same abuse and poor self-esteem issues exist, and the same black market activities exist as well - cf. The Netherlands/Australia.

To be honest, both my points relate to the same thing, that the problem with prostitution is in its perception - the general perception that selling yourself for sex is degrading. This isn't necessarily true, ultimately, but it's perceived that way in society, in film, in politics and more.

Since it's perceived as degrading, it becomes an unwilling choice for most, leading to people either entering due to screwed up rationale, desperate straits or outright force.

Perhaps we should praise those like this girl for challenging those perceptions, for being, in her words, comfortable in what she does. Yet it doesn't detract from the fact that she lives in a dingy flat in Manchester, probably inflates her annual salary and lives in a fair amount of danger.

Do we suffer the miseries associated with trafficking, with abuse, with the level of danger in order to push for a change in perception, do we allow people to promote the benefits - it's a decision few of us have to live with and a real problem is that legitimacy in the west leads to the legitimacy of objectifying sex in countries where women's rights are not as progressive as they are here.

Prostitution is not a cut-and-dried issue, currently it's no great shakes for most people involved, aside from those dominating and taking their cut, there's a balance that needs to be struck between what is ideal and what is reality.

I doubt one female on these boards would, under natural circumstances, sell their bodies for sex - and we have some very enlightened females, it should say something about the entire proposition itself.

Just saying it's fine is to some extent ignoring the very real problems involved.

I'm not really saying this to you personally, I'm sort of using your post as a leap-off point to write my own thoughts on the matter.

As a person whose office is in WanChai, I think we should all listen carefully to what Barry has to say!

As for this poor girl, I find it disturbing the number on this forum who support her decision to become a prostitute. It's very apparent reading those articles posted about her that she was mentally, physically and (very very likely) sexually abused for several years by her father. Her turn to prostitution is obvious a reaction to those years of abuse (especially as it's stated she prefers older men for clients). Hardly something we should support in this case. It's just really sad.

What about guys who sell their sperm?

Many jobs involve the selling of one's hands, to put it the same way. Including my profession, music. What makes genitalia special? Accounting is the selling of your brain.

I really don't want to end up in the whole "I don't think prostitution is okay" debate again, so I'll just leave it to a difference of opinion.



No, I don't. That's partly due to the fact that it's illegal and therefore black market, and partly due to the fact that most hookers are, like myself, not very fortunate financially. I'm not that stupid and it's a little insulting that you imply that I am. My point was that she's making a lot of money. Probably more than I will ever make in my entire life. Note how specific I was. I didn't say that I wished I was any hooker, but rather one that made $2000 a night like she can.

I feel it's not just to do with financial instability and the fact that it's illegal - there are many more issues surrounding it. Even in a position like hers, she clearly doesn't have the life most people dream of. I know a lot of people will argue "it's her choice/it's what she wants to do etc", but in my eyes, when you put yourself in a postion where you are used/degraded/objectified, you can't be happy with yourself.

Anyway, like I said above, I don't really want to get into this argument - it's a rather personal issue.

I really don't want to end up in the whole "I don't think prostitution is okay" debate again, so I'll just leave it to a difference of opinion.


I feel it's not just to do with financial instability and the fact that it's illegal - there are many more issues surrounding it. Even in a position like hers, she clearly doesn't have the life most people dream of. I know a lot of people will argue "it's her choice/it's what she wants to do etc", but in my eyes, when you put yourself in a postion where you are used/degraded/objectified, you can't be happy with yourself.

Anyway, like I said above, I don't really want to get into this argument - it's a rather personal issue.

Ah. Well, if it's that personal I suppose we best not get into it. Perhaps it is degrading, but no more so in my opinion, than janitorial work, especially if one can choose one's patrons.

It's not a profession I'd recommend to anyone, but if I was single and I thought there was okay money to be made, I'd take it over some legal occupations.

It's slightly different - there's psychological implications in allowing your body to be used for a price over choosing to donate for what is perceived as a good cause.



I wouldn't exactly call cleaning toilets "donating for a good cause." A company bought the use of my hands because I needed money. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yeah, it's totally unreasonable to assume that a pedophile molested his own daughter. Oh, and there was all that stuff about how he would 'teach her' by putting her in a freezer and so on.

Then again there is some more info (http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/3/31/nation/20798773&sec=nation) on her background.
Well the reason I am not quick to assume that she was molested is because
-the article would have likely included it.
-she would have reported it when she was found after running away at age 15
-not all pedophiles are into incest. Though I agree that often some are.

However if she said she had been sexually abused I would not be surprised.

I think the reason she is a hooker is because she spent her entire child hood stuck in a cold room doing math and now she wants to have some fun.

No, I do not view sex as inherently degrading, but I view prostitution as inherently degrading.

Why?

I believe that when given great oppertunities, it is both wrong and saddening when someone resorts to selling a part of themselves.

Don't we all sell parts of ourselves when we work? So she sells her sex instead of her math, why should one be more degrading than the other?

I really don't want to end up in the whole "I don't think prostitution is okay" debate again, so I'll just leave it to a difference of opinion.

<SNIP>

Anyway, like I said above, I don't really want to get into this argument - it's a rather personal issue.

Then in future threads I would suggest not starting said argument.

I'm a prostitute. I don't feel degraded, really.

I'm a prostitute. I don't feel degraded, really.

It would be interesting to have your further thoughts on the subject - not necessarily this particular case but overall as well.