NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok, so maybe all the femanists here could tell me if I really did something wrong, or if this girl was just having a bad day or something.

I think Ive posted enough here for people to know that Im a pretty outspoken, as much as I hate to use the term to describe myself (being a male, using this term in relation to myself causes confusion among the not so bright) feminist.

Im leaving class earlier this morning, and there is a girl behind me, whom I hold the door open for. This girl then proceeds to tell me that Im a chauvenistic pig because apperantly me holding the door open for her shows that I think women are incapable of doing anything for themselves. Its early, I havent had coffee or a cigarette yet, so I simply just allow the door to slam in her face mid sentence and walk away.

Now, Im well aware that women can indeed pull out their own chairs and open their own doors. The fact of the matter is its polite to hold the door open for someone (I do it for guys too!!!). The chair thing I admit I only do for women, but I usually only do that on dates anyway to score points:p.

So, the question I pose to the resident feminists and anyone else of course is, does doing this mean Im subconscienly sexist? I think that accusation is absurd, but hey, what the hell do I know?*




I know Dyakovo is going to just quote that part and say nothing, so Im expecting that:p.

I know Dyavoko is going to just quote that part and say nothing, so Im expecting that:p.

The guy's an ass it's true.

You probably are a sexist pig but what you did was fine, aside from the slamming of the door, you should have bowed and waved her through ultra-graciously.

er my guess is she was actually joking and probabaly wanted to bang you :p

the reply should of been something along the lines of she would be paying back for it later (when shes in the kitchen!)

er my guess is she was actually joking and probabaly wanted to bang you :p

Considering the fact that she was near screaming at me, no, trust me, she was 100% serious. I can tell when people are just fucking around. She was not.

the reply should of been something along the lines of she would be paying back for it later (when shes in the kitchen!)

With her, I would have been afraid she would have shanked me if I made this joke.

Im a chauvenistic pig because apperantly me holding the door open for her shows that I think women are incapable of doing anything for themselves.

Oh they say that about everyone, even me. Usually I just ignore them and go about my day.

Oh they say that about everyone, even me. Usually I just ignore them and go about my day.

This is the first time this has happened, and Ive been holding doors open for people since...well...since I was old enough to hold the door open for someone.

Im hoping Amor, Bottle or someone will come in and be the voice of the rational feminists.

I tend to think holding the door open for anyone, if you are so inclined, is simply a polite gesture.

I've got two close lady friends. One of whom believes that chivalry is dead and there is no reason for guys to hold open doors for gals (or vice versa for that matter, doesn't find the whole idea very relevant), and the other actually holds the door open for me whenever she's walking in front of me (I return the favor, of course).

So what does that say?

Don't know. Just thought I'd mention it.

I always hold the door open for whom ever is behind me - it is a matter of practicality as much as anything else. I think there is a difference with holding a door open so someone can go through before you - if you ever watch film of President Bush meeting other world leaders he will always make sure he is the last one through the door to show he is the most important. I like to screw with the heads of senior people (typically nearly all men) at work, by holding the door open for them and insisting they go through first - they hate it you would be amazed the lengths they go to...of course this is why I don't get promoted.

I tend to think holding the door open for anyone, if you are so inclined, is simply a polite gesture.

I've got two close lady friends. One of whom believes that chivalry is dead and there is no reason for guys to hold open doors for gals (or vice versa for that matter, doesn't find the whole idea very relevant), and the other actually holds the door open for me whenever she's walking in front of me.

So what does that say?

Don't know. Just thought I'd mention it.



My holding doors open has nothing to do with some misguided concept of Chivalry, its just simple politeness.

I like to screw with the heads of senior people (typically nearly all men) at work, by holding the door open for them and insisting they go through first

With guys, I'll often hold the door and say 'ladies first', they're generally through before they realised what I've said. I'll say 'age before beauty' to females as well to the same effect.

Whatever, holding a door open for anyone is simply friendly behaviour. If someone takes offense it's their issue not mine.

Holding a door open for somebody IMO is NOT sexist. It is just courtesy. I get pissed off when somebody doesn't at least TRY to keep the door open if I am right behind them. Some of them doors swing back fast and a few times I have been smacked in the face before I could even get my arm out to hold it off.

If someone takes offense it's their issue not mine.

There are definitely more pressing issues in the world for people to get upset about.

Ok, so maybe all the femanists here could tell me if I really did something wrong, or if this girl was just having a bad day or something.

I think Ive posted enough here for people to know that Im a pretty outspoken, as much as I hate to use the term to describe myself (being a male, using this term in relation to myself causes confusion among the not so bright) feminist.

Im leaving class earlier this morning, and there is a girl behind me, whom I hold the door open for. This girl then proceeds to tell me that Im a chauvenistic pig because apperantly me holding the door open for her shows that I think women are incapable of doing anything for themselves. Its early, I havent had coffee or a cigarette yet, so I simply just allow the door to slam in her face mid sentence and walk away.

Now, Im well aware that women can indeed pull out their own chairs and open their own doors. The fact of the matter is its polite to hold the door open for someone (I do it for guys too!!!). The chair thing I admit I only do for women, but I usually only do that on dates anyway to score points:p.

So, the question I pose to the resident feminists and anyone else of course is, does doing this mean Im subconscienly sexist? I think that accusation is absurd, but hey, what the hell do I know?*




I know Dyavoko is going to just quote that part and say nothing, so Im expecting that:p.

I think that the issue there was that girl is an idiot, being polite does not make you a chauvinist pig.

My holding doors open has nothing to do with some misguided concept of Chivalry, its just simple politeness.

Absolutely. One should be an equal opportunity door man: holding the door open for the person behind them regardless of gender, race, ethnicity, sexual preference, social class or taste in rock and roll.

Considering the fact that she was near screaming at me, no, trust me, she was 100% serious. I can tell when people are just fucking around. She was not.

oh well she probably thinks your gay, try hurling comments about her boobies next time you see her ;)

With her, I would have been afraid she would have shanked me if I made this joke.

naw she would of been stunned and gone quite (a victory for any situation)

(I'm enjoying this)

I think that the issue there was that girl is an idiot, being polite does not make you a chauvinist pig.

You disappoint me sir:p;)

Meh, I've never seen a chick flip out for someone holding the door for her...I've only heard about it. So I'm not all that inclined to believe it's a real problem. Some people are freaks. Oh well. Hey, I've been called a racist a few times since I shaved my head. That made me laugh...but I didn't start a thread about it asking the non-racists to validate my non-racism.

You disappoint me sir:p;)

Sorry, I'll try and cut down on serious answers in the future...
:(

I didn't know people still cared about that outdated stereotype. From my experience both women and men hold open doors. It's not a big deal.

Meh, I've never seen a chick flip out for someone holding the door for her...I've only heard about it. So I'm not all that inclined to believe it's a real problem. Some people are freaks. Oh well. Hey, I've been called a racist a few times since I shaved my head. That made me laugh...but I didn't start a thread about it asking the non-racists to validate my non-racism.

Meh, Im not really seeking validation, especially via the internet. Everyone could have come on and called me a sexist and I still wouldnt have really cared.

Im just curious if this is a common conception or not.

Ok, so maybe all the femanists here could tell me if I really did something wrong, or if this girl was just having a bad day or something.

I think Ive posted enough here for people to know that Im a pretty outspoken, as much as I hate to use the term to describe myself (being a male, using this term in relation to myself causes confusion among the not so bright) feminist.

Im leaving class earlier this morning, and there is a girl behind me, whom I hold the door open for. This girl then proceeds to tell me that Im a chauvenistic pig because apperantly me holding the door open for her shows that I think women are incapable of doing anything for themselves. Its early, I havent had coffee or a cigarette yet, so I simply just allow the door to slam in her face mid sentence and walk away.

Now, Im well aware that women can indeed pull out their own chairs and open their own doors. The fact of the matter is its polite to hold the door open for someone (I do it for guys too!!!). The chair thing I admit I only do for women, but I usually only do that on dates anyway to score points:p.

So, the question I pose to the resident feminists and anyone else of course is, does doing this mean Im subconscienly sexist? I think that accusation is absurd, but hey, what the hell do I know?*




I know Dyakovo is going to just quote that part and say nothing, so Im expecting that:p.


she was having a bad day.

unless you pinched her ass as she walked by or slammed the door in the face of man wanting to get through, there is nothing sexist about being polite.

1) I'm a woman.

2) I hate sexism of all kinds.

3) I was raised to believe it is rude not to hold a door for someone who is passing through it close to you. I was also raised to believe that if someone holds a door for you, it is rude not to acknowledge it. I hurry through and say "thank you" even to doormen, who are being paid to hold the door for everyone.

4) If someone, male or female, holds a door for me, I take it as practical politeness, not as a gender roles message.

5) If I hold a door for someone, male or female, and they cop an attitude like I'm the door servant, or like I'm somehow not being sensitive enough to their petty self-centered bullshit -- I do get pissed off and drop the door and go my way, just like you did. I mean, if the obnoxious bitch doesn't want assistance, who am I to force it on her? Her: "Scream Yell Bitch Whine." You: "Oh, pardon me." *let go of door* "Bye."

Sexism is a serious issue. People who put absolutely every little thing in life through the sexism prism and use it to create pointless conflict with random people, are just trivializing real social concerns and giving feminism a bad name. In my personal opinion, I think they are egomaniacs who try to co-opt gender issues as a way of making themselves the center of attention. I have zero patience with them.

I have no idea whether you are a sexist pig or not, but regardless, you don't have to be polite to people who are rude to you.

I shaved my head.

Jesus Christ its a football hooligan get in the car!

should I be worried that with my skinhead I made some comments about the Jews at a ladyfriends house in earshot of her father now....and he seems to like me :O

Im leaving class earlier this morning, and there is a girl behind me, whom I hold the door open for. This girl then proceeds to tell me that Im a chauvenistic pig because apperantly me holding the door open for her shows that I think women are incapable of doing anything for themselves. Its early, I havent had coffee or a cigarette yet, so I simply just allow the door to slam in her face mid sentence and walk away.

Now, Im well aware that women can indeed pull out their own chairs and open their own doors. The fact of the matter is its polite to hold the door open for someone (I do it for guys too!!!).

i don't do the chair thing, but certainly the door thing. its polite no matter what gender, if you ask me. she was just being a typical irrational woman, clearly ;) :p

(i'm kidding! *runs*)




3) I was raised to believe it is rude not to hold a door for someone who is passing through it close to you. I was also raised to believe that if someone holds a door for you, it is rude not to acknowledge it. I hurry through and say "thank you" even to doormen, who are being paid to hold the door for everyone.


damn right :)

Meh, Im not really seeking validation, especially via the internet. Everyone could have come on and called me a sexist and I still wouldnt have really cared.

Im just curious if this is a common conception or not.

No you aren't. You don't actually believe for a second that any sane feminist would support this girl's actions.

*The OP*
Probably PMT.

Absolutely. One should be an equal opportunity door man: holding the door open for the person behind them regardless of gender, race, ethnicity, sexual preference, social class or taste in rock and roll.

Exactly. Although anyone wearing a boy band shirt gets no portal assistance from me, regardless of gender. I figure if they like that crap, opening doors is one of the few things they can do well; who am I to take that away from them?

I agree with Muravyets. Some people are just LOOKING for reasons to vent some quasi-righteous indignation. I say fine. There's your door, jackass, so long.

No you aren't. You don't actually believe for a second that any sane feminist would support this girl's actions.

Thats an incorrect assumption. Im not going to assume that all feminists view things in the same way.

Thats why Im curious how prevelent this view is.

I've occasionally waited to hold the door for a lady, but I have a streak of old school chiv. Worst I ever got was a glare, most ladies seemed to consider it a surprising bit of politeness though.

Thats an incorrect assumption. Im not going to assume that all feminists view things in the same way.

Thats why Im curious how prevelent this view is.

An incorrect assumption. So you do believe that there are sane feminists out there that would view this as a chauvinistic action?

You and I have different perceptions of 'sane' I see.

Look, you're a reasonably intelligent person, who has stated that he has some understanding of feminism. So how is it even remotely possible that you would believe that any but the most man-hating of 'pseudo' feminists would actually support the actions of this girl? I have to assume that you would not actually believe that. Therefore, this thread is motivated by something other than what you say it is motivated by. What, I don't know. Nor do I actually care. I just like the fact that you've started it under false pretenses, and perhaps have even convinced yourself that you haven't done so.

Thats an incorrect assumption. Im not going to assume that all feminists view things in the same way.

Thats why Im curious how prevelent this view is.

i have no idea but it is, perhaps, a phase that a new feminist goes through when she is suddenly made aware of the gender politics that exists in every day life. she starts to over react to everyday situations that have at best a minimal sexist content.

since you dont know what went on in her life in the hour preceeding the incident, it may be that she had to take a ration of sexist shit from someone else that boiled over at your innocent action.

or she may be a constant dick. no way to know eh?

It's generally, here, considered unforgiveably rude to not hold the door open for the person behind you, or for someone who clearly needs some help getting through. Whether said person has a vagina or not really doesn't factor in.

An incorrect assumption. So you do believe that there are sane feminists out there that would view this as a chauvinistic action?

I think one can be reasonablly "sane" and still possibly view a gesture of politness as worthy of rightous anger. I dont think most would, but Ive been known to be wrong before. Happens to the best of us.

You and I have different perceptions of 'sane' I see.

So it would seem.

Look, you're a reasonably intelligent person, who has stated that he has some understanding of feminism. So how is it even remotely possible that you would believe that any but the most man-hating of 'pseudo' feminists would actually support the actions of this girl? I have to assume that you would not actually believe that. Therefore, this thread is motivated by something other than what you say it is motivated by. What, I don't know. Nor do I actually care. I just like the fact that you've started it under false pretenses, and perhaps have even convinced yourself that you haven't done so.

Its merely ideal curiosity. I dont have class for another hour and Im bored. Thats really my only reason for making this thread. Im fucking bored. I seek validation of no kind, nor do I wish to start a fight with someone who being a lawyer will school me:p

Ok, so maybe all the femanists here could tell me if I really did something wrong, or if this girl was just having a bad day or something.

I think Ive posted enough here for people to know that Im a pretty outspoken, as much as I hate to use the term to describe myself (being a male, using this term in relation to myself causes confusion among the not so bright) feminist.

Im leaving class earlier this morning, and there is a girl behind me, whom I hold the door open for. This girl then proceeds to tell me that Im a chauvenistic pig because apperantly me holding the door open for her shows that I think women are incapable of doing anything for themselves. Its early, I havent had coffee or a cigarette yet, so I simply just allow the door to slam in her face mid sentence and walk away.

Now, Im well aware that women can indeed pull out their own chairs and open their own doors. The fact of the matter is its polite to hold the door open for someone (I do it for guys too!!!). The chair thing I admit I only do for women, but I usually only do that on dates anyway to score points:p.

So, the question I pose to the resident feminists and anyone else of course is, does doing this mean Im subconscienly sexist? I think that accusation is absurd, but hey, what the hell do I know?*




I know Dyakovo is going to just quote that part and say nothing, so Im expecting that:p.
It sounds like that young woman was simply having a bad day.

If you only hold the door for female persons, then you're being sexist (obviously). If you hold the door for people regardless of their sex, then you're not being sexist, even on the occasions when the person you're holding the door for happens to be female.

Just so you know, this topic is a constant issue that never seems to die, and it gets thrown in with all those idiotic arguments about how sexism doesn't hurt women because the Titanic life boats were filled with women and children first. I'm not trying to excuse the rude behavior that you endured, but try to remember that it's possible that young woman has had to deal with this topic more times than she wants to, and she might be touchy about it.

I can't count the number of guys who have proudly announced to me that they always hold the door for a lady because they believe in chivalry. Barf. Listening to sexists brag about their sexism gets really fucking old.

If somebody holds a door for me, I simply assume they're being polite...unless they make a big show of it (which a surprising number of asshats do) as if it's some amazing favor that they're doing for me.

Exactly. Although anyone wearing a boy band shirt gets no portal assistance from me, regardless of gender. I figure if they like that crap, opening doors is one of the few things they can do well; who am I to take that away from them?

I agree with Muravyets. Some people are just LOOKING for reasons to vent some quasi-righteous indignation. I say fine. There's your door, jackass, so long.

I don't consider "boy bands" to even be music, let alone rock, and I believe that those who like them should be restrained in a room and forced to listen to GWAR and Rammstein until they convert. :p

Because let's be honest, everything needs more GWAR and Rammstein.

There is never an excuse for being rude, no matter what ones opinion is regarding something.

She was rude. If she thinks you are a chauvanist pig, so be it, but it gives her no license to be rude.

Being rude conveys only one thing...immaturity.

Only a simpleton can't convey a point without being rude about it.

Its merely ideal curiosity. I dont have class for another hour and Im bored. Thats really my only reason for making this thread. Im fucking bored. I seek validation of no kind, nor do I wish to start a fight with someone who being a lawyer will school me:p

Nope, s'okay, just pointing out how my pointy mind works. :P

I can't count the number of guys who have proudly announced to me that they always hold the door for a lady because they believe in chivalry. Barf. Listening to sexists brag about their sexism gets really fucking old.

If somebody holds a door for me, I simply assume they're being polite...unless they make a big show of it (which a surprising number of asshats do) as if it's some amazing favor that they're doing for me.

This.

With guys, I'll often hold the door and say 'ladies first', they're generally through before they realised what I've said. I'll say 'age before beauty' to females as well to the same effect.

:D Beaut.

Whatever, holding a door open for anyone is simply friendly behaviour. If someone takes offense it's their issue not mine.

Indeed.

There are definitely more pressing issues in the world for people to get upset about.

Absolute truth!

Oh well. Hey, I've been called a racist a few times since I shaved my head. That made me laugh...but I didn't start a thread about it asking the non-racists to validate my non-racism.

LOL Over here in Japan it's a funny thing when I shave my head every few months. First i have to try and tell my students that a shaved head isn't a "skinhead". And then I almost always have to turn around and explain to some poor ignorant western teacher that "skinhead" doesn't equal racist nazi punk (SHARPS and all that...)

1) I'm a woman.

One of the reasons I love the net. I had no idea either way for you, and neither cared nor will care.

2) I hate sexism of all kinds.

3) I was raised to believe it is rude not to hold a door for someone who is passing through it close to you. I was also raised to believe that if someone holds a door for you, it is rude not to acknowledge it. I hurry through and say "thank you" even to doormen, who are being paid to hold the door for everyone.

4) If someone, male or female, holds a door for me, I take it as practical politeness, not as a gender roles message.

5) If I hold a door for someone, male or female, and they cop an attitude like I'm the door servant, or like I'm somehow not being sensitive enough to their petty self-centered bullshit -- I do get pissed off and drop the door and go my way, just like you did. I mean, if the obnoxious bitch doesn't want assistance, who am I to force it on her? Her: "Scream Yell Bitch Whine." You: "Oh, pardon me." *let go of door* "Bye."

Sexism is a serious issue. People who put absolutely every little thing in life through the sexism prism and use it to create pointless conflict with random people, are just trivializing real social concerns and giving feminism a bad name. In my personal opinion, I think they are egomaniacs who try to co-opt gender issues as a way of making themselves the center of attention. I have zero patience with them.

I have no idea whether you are a sexist pig or not, but regardless, you don't have to be polite to people who are rude to you.

This. Is. Well. Spoken. Truth.

You are a chauvenistic pig if you did the humping gesture then pinched her ass. I am assuming you didn't do either so that is what you call a bitch.

Did you go absolutely out of your way all the time to help her in everything she does beforehand? Or was this just a one off event between you two?

I have no idea whether you are a sexist pig or not, but regardless, you don't have to be polite to people who are rude to you.

No you don't have to be...but it usually pisses them off even more when you are...nothing gets a person so frothy as yelling at someone who is perfectly calm and smiling:)

I've occasionally waited to hold the door for a lady, but I have a streak of old school chiv. Worst I ever got was a glare, most ladies seemed to consider it a surprising bit of politeness though.

Same here...

I actually have received the same kind of treatment that KoL did...

Strange, you know you should make the effort to wait until you see her again coming up to a door, then slam it in her face. then you throw a bucket of paint over her and then you shout, "hey everyone i'm a sexist man! catch me if you can!" okay so i'm joking, but still it's just a door she's overreacting.
really it's nothing to worry about.
man this must be the slowest news day i've ever seen in NSG.

i have no idea but it is, perhaps, a phase that a new feminist goes through when she is suddenly made aware of the gender politics that exists in every day life. she starts to over react to everyday situations that have at best a minimal sexist content.

This may be true. I went through a phase in my life where I would sometimes refuse help from men, not because I couldn't have used it, but because I thought they were only offering because I was female - that they thought I actually couldn't do it on my own.

I grew out of that phase, though. These days, I assume that an offer of help is simply a polite gesture unless I have some reason to believe otherwise.

And I honestly don't remember it ever extending to being upset over a door being held open.

Haha, that reminds me. My best friend is taking me to her senior prom and the gender roles are totally reverse. She invited me, she has the car so she is going to drive me there, she's older than me. It's quite ironic, but I'm totally okay with it.

Haha, that reminds me. My best friend is taking me to her senior prom and the gender roles are totally reverse. She invited me, she has the car so she is going to drive me there, she's older than me. It's quite ironic, but I'm totally okay with it.

No offense, but it's seems pretty odd to me that this would strike you as such a reversal. I thought things had progressed more than that, considering we were asking boys out and picking them up back in the 90s.

No offense, but it's seems pretty odd to me that this would strike you as such a reversal. I thought things had progressed more than that, considering we were asking boys out and picking them up back in the 90s.
Pfft maybe in Canada. Remember, they're 20 years behind us in the States ;)

Hey I'm fine with it, I love her. Gender roles are bullshit. Where I live, it's considered a reversal. That's all.

In fact, I believe according to the laws here, if we have sex, she statutorily "raped" me.

No offense, but it's seems pretty odd to me that this would strike you as such a reversal. I thought things had progressed more than that, considering we were asking boys out and picking them up back in the 90s.

Pfft maybe in Canada. Remember, they're 20 years behind us in the States ;)

It was going on here to. Not with ME mind you . . .

I hold the door open for one-and-all, and I let one-and-all reciprocate. Yet my mum tells me not to let women hold the door for me.

She probably had a bad day, who knows? If she wants to be a jerk, it's on her not you.

That said I usually wait a little to hold a door open for a lady trailing behind me. If that makes me sexist, too bad then. But I only do it when I'm not in a rush, which on campus I usually am not anyway. And of course on my university campus it seems that the only doors guys (Except me apparently) use are the main ones, they all take the elevators inside, and I tend to hold more stairwell doors open for women because I like to walk I guess. Also, I won't deny it, I love seeing their pretty smile when they thank me for holding it open. If that makes me sexist, too bad for you. I'm an equal opertunity door-open holder, as long as I'm not in a rush, the fact that very few guys seem to end up at said door around the same time as me is just pure chance.

Wow (to the OP). That's really unbelievably rude. Even if she interpreted a polite or friendly gesture as condescending (which I disagree with, really; I'm a man, other men and women hold the door open for me, and I do likewise), she could have pointed this out politely.

I hold the door open for one-and-all, and I let one-and-all reciprocate. Yet my mum tells me not to let women hold the door for me.

What are you supposed to do? Wrestle it away from her so it slams in your face?

hehe

What are you supposed to do? Wrestle it away from her so it slams in your face?

hehe

No, hold the door and wait for the lady to let go and pass through.

All have mentioned wonderful advice in that:

1) It's just politeness, it is her issue not yours

2) She may have had one of those days...and there comes a point when we ALL have THOSE kinds of days (male or female). If one hasn't, they haven't lived long enough. This is only verifiable the next time you cross her path which is now complicated by --->

3) The abruptness of the door closing in her face. The cliché "you can attract more flies with honey" and the advice earlier that nothing angers a person more than you keeping your cool while they are enraged, applies best in this circumstance. Some day, whether 40 years or tomorrow, or even just a few minutes from the event, should they come to their senses (or cool off from a rough experience), they may remember your coolness and apologize. That is, they will be more likely to remember kindness in the face of adversity than a potential validation of their anger.

4) A thought occurred to me years ago when I knew a friend with similar issues. This person would even go so far as to refuse jackets being offered in cold weather. If opening doors is to be made an issue (and saying "just being polite" is not accepted), then rather allowing the focus to remain on the woman supposedly not being able to open a door, illustrate that: " In a society today where, sadly, men are still largely paid more for the same work, respected more at mechanics shops, etc. etc., you would be one man who steps out of that light, to let HER walk FIRST, BEFORE you/in FRONT of you." In a way, you are putting her first. It still wouldn't be enough (it won't fix the pay differential), but it is a different take I have not seen mentioned thus far.
Or, of course, you can just say, "I feel you are seeing this very incorrectly, and I am sorry you still feel that way"

-------------------------
All opinions stated above are not necessarily those of The Veiled Widow.

Im leaving class earlier this morning, and there is a girl behind me, whom I hold the door open for. This girl then proceeds to tell me that Im a chauvenistic pig because apperantly me holding the door open for her shows that I think women are incapable of doing anything for themselves. Its early, I havent had coffee or a cigarette yet, so I simply just allow the door to slam in her face mid sentence and walk away.

You should have punched her in the face to show that you accept her as one of the guys.

No, hold the door and wait for the lady to let go and pass through.

LOL. If she's the stubborn type, you guys may be standing there a while. =)

LOL. If she's the stubborn type, you guys may be standing there a while. =)

That is alright with my mum; men have more stamina to wait with (though we cannot clean as well as women :().

Ok, so maybe all the femanists here could tell me if I really did something wrong, or if this girl was just having a bad day or something.

I think Ive posted enough here for people to know that Im a pretty outspoken, as much as I hate to use the term to describe myself (being a male, using this term in relation to myself causes confusion among the not so bright) feminist.

Im leaving class earlier this morning, and there is a girl behind me, whom I hold the door open for. This girl then proceeds to tell me that Im a chauvenistic pig because apperantly me holding the door open for her shows that I think women are incapable of doing anything for themselves. Its early, I havent had coffee or a cigarette yet, so I simply just allow the door to slam in her face mid sentence and walk away.

Now, Im well aware that women can indeed pull out their own chairs and open their own doors. The fact of the matter is its polite to hold the door open for someone (I do it for guys too!!!). The chair thing I admit I only do for women, but I usually only do that on dates anyway to score points:p.

So, the question I pose to the resident feminists and anyone else of course is, does doing this mean Im subconscienly sexist? I think that accusation is absurd, but hey, what the hell do I know?*




I know Dyakovo is going to just quote that part and say nothing, so Im expecting that:p.The chick needs to get a grip. I'm a feminist and I like having someone hold a door for me. And I'll return the favor.

And I love a guy who calls himself a feminist.

No you don't have to be...but it usually pisses them off even more when you are...nothing gets a person so frothy as yelling at someone who is perfectly calm and smiling:)

It is certainly true that, as the great Oscar Wilde put it, "one should always be kind to one's enemies because nothing will annoy them more." But I try to reserve this for people I detest who are actually in my life, and not put out that effort for every random twit who happens by. I mean, really, Neesika, there are so many, and life is far too short. ;)

Ok, so maybe all the femanists here could tell me if I really did something wrong, or if this girl was just having a bad day or something.

I think Ive posted enough here for people to know that Im a pretty outspoken, as much as I hate to use the term to describe myself (being a male, using this term in relation to myself causes confusion among the not so bright) feminist.

Im leaving class earlier this morning, and there is a girl behind me, whom I hold the door open for. This girl then proceeds to tell me that Im a chauvenistic pig because apperantly me holding the door open for her shows that I think women are incapable of doing anything for themselves. Its early, I havent had coffee or a cigarette yet, so I simply just allow the door to slam in her face mid sentence and walk away.

Now, Im well aware that women can indeed pull out their own chairs and open their own doors. The fact of the matter is its polite to hold the door open for someone (I do it for guys too!!!). The chair thing I admit I only do for women, but I usually only do that on dates anyway to score points:p.

So, the question I pose to the resident feminists and anyone else of course is, does doing this mean Im subconscienly sexist? I think that accusation is absurd, but hey, what the hell do I know?*




I know Dyakovo is going to just quote that part and say nothing, so Im expecting that:p.
My english teacher at school couldn't straighten one of his fingers fully because of a similar situation where a militant feminist had slammed the door on him when he tried to hold it open for her.

Ok, so maybe all the femanists here could tell me if I really did something wrong, or if this girl was just having a bad day or something.

I think Ive posted enough here for people to know that Im a pretty outspoken, as much as I hate to use the term to describe myself (being a male, using this term in relation to myself causes confusion among the not so bright) feminist.

Im leaving class earlier this morning, and there is a girl behind me, whom I hold the door open for. This girl then proceeds to tell me that Im a chauvenistic pig because apperantly me holding the door open for her shows that I think women are incapable of doing anything for themselves. Its early, I havent had coffee or a cigarette yet, so I simply just allow the door to slam in her face mid sentence and walk away.

Now, Im well aware that women can indeed pull out their own chairs and open their own doors. The fact of the matter is its polite to hold the door open for someone (I do it for guys too!!!). The chair thing I admit I only do for women, but I usually only do that on dates anyway to score points:p.

So, the question I pose to the resident feminists and anyone else of course is, does doing this mean Im subconscienly sexist? I think that accusation is absurd, but hey, what the hell do I know?*




I know Dyakovo is going to just quote that part and say nothing, so Im expecting that:p.


Here's the test: When she kirked out about it, did you think to yourself "Hmm, she's being quite unreasonable." or did you think "Meh, bitch is probably just on the rag."

The former makes you not a sexist. The latter.... well heh.

Meh, I've never seen a chick flip out for someone holding the door for her...I've only heard about it. So I'm not all that inclined to believe it's a real problem. Some people are freaks. Oh well. Hey, I've been called a racist a few times since I shaved my head. That made me laugh...but I didn't start a thread about it asking the non-racists to validate my non-racism.

Glad to know I'm not the only one who got that shit about being a "skinhead" or a "nazi" for having short, buzzed hair.

Of course, I've also gotten the "sexist" bit because I won't vote for Hillary Clinton. (For the record, it's because she advocates war in Iran.) So yes, people are stupid.

Glad to know I'm not the only one who got that shit about being a "skinhead" or a "nazi" for having short, buzzed hair.

Of course, I've also gotten the "sexist" bit because I won't vote for Hillary Clinton. (For the record, it's because she advocates war in Iran.) So yes, people are stupid.


Its amussing that your sole reason for voting against Hillary is a false accuastion.

My pshrink (female) told me I was chauvinistic because I view woman as something that need my protection from bad things, eg; angry men.
I was only in therapy because I punched a guy that slapped my girlfriend at the time, in the middle of my high school cafeteria.
Whenever this story comes up with various other women and I tell them about my pshrink calling me chauvinistic they disagree and tell me that they like being protected, and what I did they would want their boyfriends or significant others doing for them.
Blame pshrinks and such, they don't have a grasp on reality anyway.

My pshrink (female) told me I was chauvinistic because I view woman as something that need my protection from bad things

Your psychologisit/psychiatrist is right, that is the very definition of being chauvinistic.

Also the fact that you felt the need to mention that it was a female, as if that somehow affects her decisions/judgements/diagnoses, is very telling. I can see why she would be telling you what she is.

Here's the test: When she kirked out about it, did you think to yourself "Hmm, she's being quite unreasonable." or did you think "Meh, bitch is probably just on the rag."

The former makes you not a sexist. The latter.... well heh.

Does the fact that I might have had the latter thought if I saw the incident make me sexist? Or is it ok because I'm a girl?

=)

This is the first time this has happened, and Ive been holding doors open for people since...well...since I was old enough to hold the door open for someone.

So I'm not the only person who does it...no one else I know seems to do that much...Some people think I'm trying to get something from them when I do it...

You know society is screwed up when people think you're weird for having manners.

Does the fact that I might have had the latter thought if I saw the incident make me sexist? Or is it ok because I'm a girl?

=)

Now *that* is a damn fine discussion topic!

...which would lead to an alternate question, namely, COULD a guy have thought something like that without being sexist?

Your psychologisit/psychiatrist is right, that is the very definition of being chauvinistic.

Also the fact that you felt the need to mention that it was a female, as if that somehow affects her decisions/judgements/diagnoses, is very telling. I can see why she would be telling you what she is.

My point was is it a bad thing? I treat women with respect and equal opportunities, but most seem to agree with me on this particular issue.

Meh, I've never seen a chick flip out for someone holding the door for her...I've only heard about it. So I'm not all that inclined to believe it's a real problem.

I've had it happen to me first hand, only once, but it has happened. Early spring quarter, Freshman year, Baker Hall East front door, while I was returning from R-Kelly's 245 class.

Some people are freaks.

AMEN! Sister!

If you're really looking for whacko's, come to a major college campus, like Ohio State. We've got folks running the entire gamut of crazy...right to left, christian to atheist, hippy to nazi. And they will solicit you for support of their organization, too!

I read an article a few years ago, shortly after 9/11, in which a columnist (a woman) was expressing how a lot of things had changed in society as a result of the attack, even in areas of how we percieve men and women.

She then told the story of how once when she was on a plane she was getting her carry on bag out of the overhead compartment and was having a little trouble getting it free. An older gentleman standing next to her reached up to help and she reacted by snapping at him and calling him a cheauvenist for implying, by his action, that she was a helpless little female that needed the help.

Later, as she watched the fire engines ferrying firefighters to Ground Zero in New York she found herself admiring the guys (and women too, of course, but it was mainy about the guys) riding to hopefully rescue trapped survivors. It caused her to reflect upon the incident on the plane and from this new perspective she realized that the guy wasn't being a cheauvenist, he was just trying to be a gentleman and wanted to be helpful. She regretted her reaction to him and came to the conclusion that having people around who sill do things like that is a good thing, not a bad thing.

Maybe someday the person who got mad at you for holding the door open will have a similar epiphany, and will remember you more kindly.

Hell, we can hope maybe she later on told the story to some of her friends and they laid the smackdown on her for being rude to you. One never knows...

My point was is it a bad thing? I treat women with respect and equal opportunities, but most seem to agree with me on this particular issue.

Im not codeming your actions, but your attitude. Mainly that you believe that women need the protection of big strong men from all the big scary things out there. Women are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves. And your female friends who are argeeing that they need protection are also sexist. Women can be sexist as well.

Im not going to judge your actions because thats not my place. Your attitude, since you stated it here, is what I can judge.

Now *that* is a damn fine discussion topic!

...which would lead to an alternate question, namely, COULD a guy have thought something like that without being sexist?

I'd say it really depends on whether or not he actually thought it was true.

If a friend is really acting bitchy, I might ask if she's on the rag or PMSing, but I don't really think that's the issue. It's just kind of a funny way to ask, "Is something wrong?" and it might actually make her laugh.

I've actually asked guys the same question before when they were being bitchy.

I suppose the argument could be made that the idea of menstruating being equivalent to being bitchy would be sexist, but it's not one of those things that's really going to bother me when it's brought up in a joking manner.

Then again, I hang out with a group of friends who find self-deprecating stereotype humor to be amusing, so a lot of the things that I don't see as racist/sexist/anti-religion/etc. when obviously being used for humor may offend someone else.

Im not codeming your actions, but your attitude. Mainly that you believe that women need the protection of big strong men from all the big scary things out there. Women are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves. And your female friends who are argeeing that they need protection are also sexist. Women can be sexist as well.

Im not going to judge your actions because thats not my place. Your attitude, since you stated it here, is what I can judge.

Just for the sake of argument, let's consider this perspective:

My wife LOVES the protective side of me. She loves it when I'm protective of her and when I'm protective of my kids. To me, it's natural to be protective as a male. Males got stuck with the job because they are physically designed, frankly, for combat. On average, the male body tends to be more heavily muscled, lower maintanence, with specialized emphasis in the brain programming to make us adept at hunting and fighting. We tend to be more aggressive and physically larger.

This is why females are not infantry soldiers.

(This isn't to say that we wern't lacking in other areas where women are superior. My belief is that the net result is equality through specialization.)

Isn't it reasonable then, for men to tend naturally to be protective over their whole family in the same way women tend to be protective (especially) over their children? I don't think it's in any way demeaning to women.

Does the fact that I might have had the latter thought if I saw the incident make me sexist? Or is it ok because I'm a girl?

=)
That's an easy question to answer: of course it's still sexist. But, more importantly, it's rather foolish if you think about the biology of the human female.

The majority of women who report mood swings related to their menstrual cycle report them as part of what we commonly know as PMS. PMS stands for PRE-menstrual syndrome.

If a woman is "on the rag," she cannot have PMS, by definition.

;)

I'd say it really depends on whether or not he actually thought it was true.

If a friend is really acting bitchy, I might ask if she's on the rag or PMSing, but I don't really think that's the issue. It's just kind of a funny way to ask, "Is something wrong?" and it might actually make her laugh.

I've actually asked guys the same question before when they were being bitchy.

I suppose the argument could be made that the idea of menstruating being equivalent to being bitchy would be sexist, but it's not one of those things that's really going to bother me when it's brought up in a joking manner.

Then again, I hang out with a group of friends who find self-deprecating stereotype humor to be amusing, so a lot of the things that I don't see as racist/sexist/anti-religion/etc. when obviously being used for humor may offend someone else.

Makes sense.

And then there's also the possibility that, genuinely, this person may have been in a bad mood as the result of PMS. I'd say it is sexist to assume that a bad mood must necessarily be tied to something like that, but it doesn't exclude the possibility.

When I initially replied to KoL I specifically tried to phrase it in a sexist way though just to be funny ;)

Just for the sake of argument, let's consider this perspective:

My wife LOVES the protective side of me. She loves it when I'm protective of her and when I'm protective of my kids. To me, it's natural to be protective as a male. Males got stuck with the job because they are physically designed, frankly, for combat. On average, the male body tends to be more heavily muscled, lower maintanence, with specialized emphasis in the brain programming to make us adept at hunting and fighting. We tend to be more aggressive and physically larger.

This is why females are not infantry soldiers.

(This isn't to say that we wern't lacking in other areas where women are superior. My belief is that the net result is equality through specialization.)

Isn't it reasonable then, for men to tend naturally to be protective over their whole family in the same way women tend to be protective (especially) over their children? I don't think it's in any way demeaning to women.


That depends. Are you saying it is NOT natural for a woman to be protective of her husband and kids? My fiance and my mother would disagree.

Being protective of loved ones is a human trait, it is not gender specific. Its ok to be protective, it gets bad when you say "Grrr all those poor dainty damsel in distresses need the protection of a big strong man like me to protect them from all the big bad scary things out there! Poor girls cant protect themselves from all the bad stuff in the real world!"

That is when your a chauvenistic asswhipe.

As an aside:

This is why females are not infantry soldiers.

My cousin disagrees ;)

That depends. Are you saying it is NOT natural for a woman to be protective of her husband and kids? My fiance and my mother would disagree.

Not at all. Only that a guy who is protective isn't doing so out of cheauvanism.


Being protective of loved ones is a human trait, it is not gender specific. Its ok to be protective, it gets bad when you say "Grrr all those poor dainty damsel in distresses need the protection of a big strong man like me to protect them from all the big bad scary things out there! Poor girls cant protect themselves from all the bad stuff in the real world!"

That is when your a chauvenistic asswhipe.


Agreed. Like I know my wife is more than capable of protecting herself, but if someone were to actually attack her I know my natural instinct would be to jump in and feed the attacker his spine.


As an aside:



My cousin disagrees ;)

She is infantry? US Army?

Not at all. Only that a guy who is protective isn't doing so out of cheauvanism.

As long as we're on the same page that its a natural, gender neutral trait.



Agreed. Like I know my wife is more than capable of protecting herself, but if someone were to actually attack her I know my natural instinct would be to jump in and feed the attacker his spine.


Agreed, and I think she probably feels the same way about if someone tried to hurt you or your kids.


She is infantry? US Army?

Marine.

As long as we're on the same page that its a natural, gender neutral trait.


Protectiveness? Absolutely.


Agreed, and I think she probably feels the same way about if someone tried to hurt you or your kids.


Yep. Although I suspect if she saw me get into a fight and saw me holding my own or winning she'd just cheer me on and then give me all kinds of luvins later :D



Marine.

Infantry? Really?

Yep. Although I suspect if she saw me get into a fight and saw me holding my own or winning she'd just cheer me on and then give me all kinds of luvins later :D

Having ones own personal cheerleader does rule.




Infantry? Really?

90% sure. She might be a tanker (do the marines have tank devisions?).

Just for the sake of argument, let's consider this perspective:

My wife LOVES the protective side of me. She loves it when I'm protective of her and when I'm protective of my kids. To me, it's natural to be protective as a male. Males got stuck with the job because they are physically designed, frankly, for combat. On average, the male body tends to be more heavily muscled, lower maintanence, with specialized emphasis in the brain programming to make us adept at hunting and fighting. We tend to be more aggressive and physically larger.

This is why females are not infantry soldiers.

While women's bodies tend to be smaller than men's bodies, if you adjust for size you actually find that women aren't any weaker than men when it comes to muscle power. Muscle-to-muscle, men and women are equals. Comparing a man to a woman who is smaller than him isn't really a valid comparison of strength, any more than comparing a larger man to a smaller man.

And, of course, females have much heartier immune systems and tend to recover more swiftly from many types of injuries. The much-vaunted testosterone which allows males to put on muscle mass also has some pretty toxic effects on the body. Females tend to be more flexible, tending to incur fewer stress-related injuries to joints and tendons than male counterparts, and females also tend to have higher pain thresholds than males do. Women are less likely to be color blind or have physically-weakening conditions like hemophelia. Women have better manual dexterity (which would be particularly useful in fights that involve a weapon or situations which require the use of tools).

Honestly, if we lived in a parallel universe where the gender roles were exactly reversed, I can think of plenty of ways that sexists would use "biology" to support their theory that women are clearly "built for combat."


(This isn't to say that we wern't lacking in other areas where women are superior. My belief is that the net result is equality through specialization.)

Ahh yes, separate but equal. Works every time.


Isn't it reasonable then, for men to tend naturally to be protective over their whole family in the same way women tend to be protective (especially) over their children? I don't think it's in any way demeaning to women.
It's certainly sexist, and I also think it's pretty sad. I feel protective of my (male) lover. I know he is protective of me. We both wish to protect each other.

If you actually feel that your wife doesn't feel protective toward you, then that's kind of a bummer to me. If you're right, it means your wife doesn't feel protective toward you. That sucks (IMO). If you're wrong, it means you've been missing out on what are probably some pretty nice feelings, including the feeling one gets from knowing that one's lover totally has one's back. That also sucks (IMO).

Personally, I'd be very insulted if my partner suggested that I should feel protective toward our offspring while he should feel protective toward the offspring and toward me. I'm every inch as capable as my partner. I can protect him from somethings that he cannot protect me from, and vice versa. We each have our strengths and will use them to help each other. That's a partnership.

Of course, females have much heartier immune systems and tend to recover more swiftly from many types of injuries. Females also tend to be more flexible, and tend to have higher pain thresholds than males do.

While women's bodies tend to be smaller than men's bodies, if you adjust for size you actually find that women aren't any weaker than men when it comes to muscle power. Muscle-to-muscle, men and women are equals. Comparing a man to a woman who is smaller than him isn't really a valid comparison of strength, any more than comparing a larger man to a smaller man.

Honestly, if we lived in a parallel universe where the gender roles were exactly reversed, I can think of plenty of ways that sexists would use "biology" to support their theory that women are clearly "built for combat."


Ahh yes, separate but equal. Works every time.


It's certainly sexist, and I also think it's pretty sad. I feel protective of my (male) lover. I know he is protective of me. We both wish to protect each other.

If you actually feel that your wife doesn't feel protective toward you, then that's kind of a bummer to me. If you're right, it means your wife doesn't feel protective toward you. That sucks (IMO). If you're wrong, it means you've been missing out on what are probably some pretty nice feelings, including the feeling one gets from knowing that one's lover totally has one's back. That also sucks (IMO).

Personally, I'd be very insulted if my partner suggested that I should feel protective toward our offspring while he should feel protective toward the offspring and toward me. I'm every inch as capable as my partner. I can protect him from somethings that he cannot protect me from, and vice versa. We each have our strengths and will use them to help each other. That's a partnership.



Psh, whatever Bottle. You know what you really need is a big strong Alpha Male to protect you from all the scary stuff out there. :p

Now, Im well aware that women can indeed pull out their own chairs and open their own doors. The fact of the matter is its polite to hold the door open for someone (I do it for guys too!!!). The chair thing I admit I only do for women, but I usually only do that on dates anyway to score points:p.

So, the question I pose to the resident feminists and anyone else of course is, does doing this mean Im subconscienly sexist? I think that accusation is absurd, but hey, what the hell do I know?


You've been plagued by the gift of good manners. Tough luck, it's hard to break a habit. Clearly the offended co-ed hasn't been around very many polite people.

Psh, whatever Bottle. You know what you really need is a big strong Alpha Male to protect you from all the scary stuff out there. :p
:D

What's funny is that so many people try to paint me as this ball-busting feminazi, yet my partner is a black belt in karate who is quite literally twice my size if you measure pound for pound. I know, without a doubt, that my partner could totally kick my ass in a one-on-one fight. Doesn't bother me, because he knows that if I ever wanted to kick his ass I would be smart enough not to get into a one-on-one fight situation. We each have our strengths. ;)

Im leaving class earlier this morning, and there is a girl behind me, whom I hold the door open for.

how far behind you was she?

also, were you in fact wearing a shirt that said something to the effect of "bitches aint shit but hoes and tricks"?

That's an easy question to answer: of course it's still sexist. But, more importantly, it's rather foolish if you think about the biology of the human female.

The majority of women who report mood swings related to their menstrual cycle report them as part of what we commonly know as PMS. PMS stands for PRE-menstrual syndrome.

If a woman is "on the rag," she cannot have PMS, by definition.

;)

Of course it's foolish. That's why it can be funny. It's truly biologically impossible for any of my male friends to menstruate, but I still sometimes ask them the same question. =)

I think many of the people I know have taken various forms of bigotry and such and turned it all into a running joke. It's not unusual, for instance for an Arabic friend to joke that [x] makes him a terrorist or a Jewish friend to make jokes about being money-grubbing. I'll crack jokes about being subservient to my husband or male friends.

This whole conversation has devolved to the point of ridiculousness. It is not inherently sexist to believe that women and men are not identical. To say that is, frankly, the height of absurdity. Everyone knows and acknowledges that men and women are not identical. Taken as a whole, the general traits of men may (and probably do) precisely (to as close a degree of measurement as necessary) equal the general traits of women, but the fact remains that those traits are different.

Even those of you throwing around the term sexist will-nilly so that it loses all meaning have acknowledged that men and women are not identical.

If men and women are not identical, and acting, thinking, and behaving as though women and men are not identical is the definition of sexism, then doesn't sexism lose all its negative connotations?

Reserve the use of your terms for the times when they are actually relevant. When a man treats a woman as if she were inferior because she's a woman, that is sexism. When a man treats a woman as if she were different, it need not be.

That said, I hold doors for anybody, except people I personally dislike. But I go more out of my way (waiting longer, speeding up a bit to get there first) if the object of my politeness is a woman. Why? Simple. I don't have any desire to have sex with men, and I know that most women (and the ones I'm generally interested in) appreciate the efforts on my part, and thus are (if only slightly) more likely to have sex with me.

If not wanting to have sex with men makes me a sexist, then so be it.

Personally I wouldn't think you've done anything wrong. Maybe she had her ultra-feminist pill that day, or just needed to vent to give her ovaries a boost of self esteem.

A little side note in my years of walking through doors... MOST of the time, a man will hold the door open for someone, male or female, entering or leaving with him.

Apparently, however, the vast majority of women never recieved this memo on doorway etiquette, as based on my observations MOST of the time, women will simply walk through a door without looking back whether it slams into another's face or not.

Likewise, in most cases a man standing near a door will open it for one who is heavilly burdened, where as women tend to simply ignore that person.

Caveat: The above is based simply on my observations and experiences. The reader may experience different statistics when entering or exiting doorways. ;)

I hold the door for noone. :mad:

I hold the door for noone. :mad:

Peter Noone? Yeah. I'd hold the door for a Herman's Hermit, too.

how far behind you was she?

I've been absurd with that before. With both men and women.

It just feels so mean to let the door close in someone's face... even if they're fifteen feet away....

Personally I wouldn't think you've done anything wrong. Maybe she had her ultra-feminist pill that day, or just needed to vent to give her ovaries a boost of self esteem.

A little side note in my years of walking through doors... MOST of the time, a man will hold the door open for someone, male or female, entering or leaving with him.

Apparently, however, the vast majority of women never recieved this memo on doorway etiquette, as based on my observations MOST of the time, women will simply walk through a door without looking back whether it slams into another's face or not.

Likewise, in most cases a man standing near a door will open it for one who is heavilly burdened, where as women tend to simply ignore that person.

Caveat: The above is based simply on my observations and experiences. The reader may experience different statistics when entering or exiting doorways. ;)
Well, addressing your caveat, MY personal experience is that rudeness/politeness are evenly distributed between the sexes. Men and women are equally likely to either to hold a door or to breeze right through, equally likely to assist or not assit. So, now that we have established that personal experience is not enough information to base a generalization about all people on, let's not do that again, k? Thanks.

Peter Noone? Yeah. I'd hold the door for a Herman's Hermit, too.

Never heard of him.

I've been absurd with that before. With both men and women.

It just feels so mean to let the door close in someone's face... even if they're fifteen feet away....
I get trapped into doing that all the time -- holding that door forever, while my brain calculates the algebra of how far away they are and how fast they are walking, and my little shoulder-angel and shoulder-devil debate the proper course of action. And I don't mind it at all, if the person sees me holding the door and hurries a bit to take it from me. But when the person sees me there and just ignores me and keeps sauntering along as if I'm nothing more than a large-ish doorstop who has nothing else to do, that does piss me off. I have, on more than one occasion, dropped a door on a person at the last minute just because it took that long to finally tire of their attitude.

Im not codeming your actions, but your attitude. Mainly that you believe that women need the protection of big strong men from all the big scary things out there. Women are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves. And your female friends who are argeeing that they need protection are also sexist. Women can be sexist as well.

Im not going to judge your actions because thats not my place. Your attitude, since you stated it here, is what I can judge.

My girlfriend, who's very feminist, likes my "protective" side. But she understand it's not an issue of her needing to be protected, it's an issue of me wanting to hurt the poor idiot who she might want to be protected from. I'm a very viloent person by nature, and while I control it just fine in everyday life, a little release is good, and she knows it. A guy hits her, I know she could probably take him, but she won't, she'd rather give me the play time with him instead, make me happy to beat the crap out of him. Everybody wins, except the poor fool who hit her first, unless a free ambulance ride counts as winning.

Well, addressing your caveat, MY personal experience is that rudeness/politeness are evenly distributed between the sexes. Men and women are equally likely to either to hold a door or to breeze right through, equally likely to assist or not assit. So, now that we have established that personal experience is not enough information to base a generalization about all people on, let's not do that again, k? Thanks.

The whole point of the caveat itself was to clarify that my statements were my observations, and not my assertions. I said "This is what I've seen" not "This is true because of what I've seen". I haven't been standing outside of doorways, frantically scribbling notes about which demographics show which behavior under which circumstances so I really couldn't give you an accurate chart of data on the subject, but just as your observations tell you there is no difference between men and women in holding open doors, mine says tells me that there is.

Sexism is all in how you treat someone. I can hold a door open or not, and at the time, I can be thinking, "good gravy, that is one amazingly-built woman, and I'd love nothing better than to see her unclothed", so long as I don't gawk, say those words or act on them (without invitation...*pffthk!*...sorry, I choked on the complete improbability of that ever happening). What we think is entirely our own concern. How we speak and how we act is where it can become others'.

I hold doors out of habit, regardless of who's walking through.

90% sure. She might be a tanker (do the marines have tank devisions?).

Yes, the Marines have tank divisions, however your cousin is not in a front-line MOS (unless the rules have changed drastically since I was in, which they might have), on the other hand, every Marine regardless of MOS is trained first as infantry... "Every Marines a Rifleman"

I know that I've held a door open before and then thirty or fourty people suddenly rushed out before a tall guy took the door so I could finally go in. The halls are crowded.

Ok, so maybe all the femanists here could tell me if I really did something wrong, or if this girl was just having a bad day or something.

I think Ive posted enough here for people to know that Im a pretty outspoken, as much as I hate to use the term to describe myself (being a male, using this term in relation to myself causes confusion among the not so bright) feminist.

Im leaving class earlier this morning, and there is a girl behind me, whom I hold the door open for. This girl then proceeds to tell me that Im a chauvenistic pig because apperantly me holding the door open for her shows that I think women are incapable of doing anything for themselves. Its early, I havent had coffee or a cigarette yet, so I simply just allow the door to slam in her face mid sentence and walk away.

Now, Im well aware that women can indeed pull out their own chairs and open their own doors. The fact of the matter is its polite to hold the door open for someone (I do it for guys too!!!). The chair thing I admit I only do for women, but I usually only do that on dates anyway to score points:p.

So, the question I pose to the resident feminists and anyone else of course is, does doing this mean Im subconscienly sexist? I think that accusation is absurd, but hey, what the hell do I know?*




I know Dyakovo is going to just quote that part and say nothing, so Im expecting that:p.

I don´t think you´re a chauvinistic pig. Some women do take offense when men try doing things for them. All in all, as a woman, I think you were just being courteous and a gentleman, nothing more.

Having ones own personal cheerleader does rule.


Totally!


90% sure. She might be a tanker (do the marines have tank devisions?).

I'd guess tanker, because my understanding was that in the US Military women couldn't serve as infantry, but can do just about anything else.

Statistically, women are better shots than men, too. I bet she's the gunner ;)


Ahh yes, separate but equal. Works every time.


I was with you until this line. That's when I realized that hyperbole is much more boring than actual communication so I stopped.

This whole conversation has devolved to the point of ridiculousness. It is not inherently sexist to believe that women and men are not identical. To say that is, frankly, the height of absurdity. Everyone knows and acknowledges that men and women are not identical. Taken as a whole, the general traits of men may (and probably do) precisely (to as close a degree of measurement as necessary) equal the general traits of women, but the fact remains that those traits are different.

Even those of you throwing around the term sexist will-nilly so that it loses all meaning have acknowledged that men and women are not identical.

If men and women are not identical, and acting, thinking, and behaving as though women and men are not identical is the definition of sexism, then doesn't sexism lose all its negative connotations?

Reserve the use of your terms for the times when they are actually relevant. When a man treats a woman as if she were inferior because she's a woman, that is sexism. When a man treats a woman as if she were different, it need not be.

That said, I hold doors for anybody, except people I personally dislike. But I go more out of my way (waiting longer, speeding up a bit to get there first) if the object of my politeness is a woman. Why? Simple. I don't have any desire to have sex with men, and I know that most women (and the ones I'm generally interested in) appreciate the efforts on my part, and thus are (if only slightly) more likely to have sex with me.

If not wanting to have sex with men makes me a sexist, then so be it.

QFT.

Although there are posters on this very forum who don't seem to understand this simple concept.

To be honest I hold the door for those who don't offend me either by the way they look, dress, or, if applicable, talk. Or those who I need to like me, since those in positions of power rarely coincide with those whom one would want to be in such a position.

Although there are posters on this very forum who don't seem to understand this simple concept.

Posters made of straw?

*snip*

This. Exactly.

My pshrink (female) told me I was chauvinistic because I view woman as something that need my protection from bad things, eg; angry men.
I was only in therapy because I punched a guy that slapped my girlfriend at the time, in the middle of my high school cafeteria.

Bastard got off light. If I'd have been there he may have wound up with something broken.

The whole point of the caveat itself was to clarify that my statements were my observations, and not my assertions. I said "This is what I've seen" not "This is true because of what I've seen". I haven't been standing outside of doorways, frantically scribbling notes about which demographics show which behavior under which circumstances so I really couldn't give you an accurate chart of data on the subject, but just as your observations tell you there is no difference between men and women in holding open doors, mine says tells me that there is.
Neither of which adds anything to the debate of the thread, nor addresses the OP question. Do you have a point to make, or any thoughts based on your experiences that are relevant to anything connected to the topic?

In response to OP:

I'm too late to join the discussion, so I'll just say, hoping nobody came with this before: next time you meet that girl, greet her by bowing down, grabbing her hand and kissing it ;)

Bastard got off light. If I'd have been there he may have wound up with something broken.

Getting off light? Reminds me of...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWshPH_jsjQ

(The relevant quote is at 6:40 to 7:10 of the 7:10-long vid, if you can't wait through the whole scene.)

Next time, ask the woman if she's a feminist first.

If she says yes, forcibly slam the door in her face.

Next time, ask the woman if she's a feminist first.

If she says yes, forcibly slam the door in her face.

Uh-oh.

Uh-oh.

I'm a woman, and I open the door for everyone.

Except people who want to be assholes when someone is trying to be polite and helpful.

It appears that feminists who believe that opening a door is offensive are assholes.

I'm a woman, and I open the door for everyone.

Except people who want to be assholes when someone is trying to be polite and helpful.

It appears that feminists who believe that opening a door is offensive are assholes.

No, you are saying that feminists are assholes.

Like I said, uh-oh.

Next time, ask the woman if she's a feminist first.

If she says yes, forcibly slam the door in her face.

Uh...fail. You've just lumped every feminist in with the asshole feminists. Esta no bueno por nada.

No, you are saying that feminists are assholes.

Like I said, uh-oh.

No, feminists who believe that a man holding the door opening is wrong are assholes.

There's a difference.

This whole conversation has devolved to the point of ridiculousness. It is not inherently sexist to believe that women and men are not identical. To say that is, frankly, the height of absurdity. Everyone knows and acknowledges that men and women are not identical. Taken as a whole, the general traits of men may (and probably do) precisely (to as close a degree of measurement as necessary) equal the general traits of women, but the fact remains that those traits are different.

MEN aren't identical. WOMEN aren't identical. OF COURSE men and women aren't identical, because men aren't even identical to other men, nor are women identical to other women.

Sexism is when you assume that because a person is male he should hold a door for a person who is female. Or that he should feel protective toward a female person because he is male and she is female. Or that his maleness means that he is going to be stronger than a person who is female. (If you reversed the sexes in each of these cases, it would also be sexism.)

Just pay attention to individuals and quit with the lazy, self-absorbed habit of trying to pigeon hole everyone based on their sex.


Reserve the use of your terms for the times when they are actually relevant. When a man treats a woman as if she were inferior because she's a woman, that is sexism. When a man treats a woman as if she were different, it need not be.

Actually, yes, if a man treats a woman differently BECAUSE SHE IS FEMALE, that is sexism. That's the definition of sexism.

And yes, your habit of treating female persons differently on the basis of their sex is, of course, sexism. I'm not saying you should have to change your behavior, and you certainly can argue that you are right to be sexist if you want, just don't waste your time trying to argue that you aren't acting in a sexist manner.

No, feminists who believe that a man holding the door opening is wrong are assholes.

There's a difference.

That's what you're saying NOW. Your post, the one I quoted just before posting this one, does not make that distinction. That's all.

No, feminists who believe that a man holding the door opening is wrong are assholes.

There's a difference.

Next time, ask the woman if she's a feminist first.

If she says yes, forcibly slam the door in her face.

Hmm. That's some really, really small white text there.

Girls should hold open doors for guys.

Girls should hold open doors for guys.

It's just a polite thing to do that shouldn't depend upon WHAT the person entering the doorway is. The only time I see it as even close to mandatory is when the person entering is carrying something in both hands.

Girls should hold open doors for guys.

They do. Here, anyway.

I hold the door open for whoever's behind me, irrespective of gender. Likewise, men and women alike have held the door for me (I'm a guy).

I didn't realise this was an issue for some people.

They do. Here, anyway.

I hold the door open for whoever's behind me, irrespective of gender. Likewise, men and women alike have held the door for me (I'm a guy).

I didn't realise this was an issue for some people.

Yeah, that's pretty much the case where I live as well. I've never actually seen gender factor into it really.

Im leaving class earlier this morning, and there is a girl behind me, whom I hold the door open for. This girl then proceeds to tell me that Im a chauvenistic pig because apperantly me holding the door open for her shows that I think women are incapable of doing anything for themselves. Its early, I havent had coffee or a cigarette yet, so I simply just allow the door to slam in her face mid sentence and walk away.



lol, i open doors for females and seniors, the girls call me a gentlemen, while the seniors say im such a fine young man, wonders for my ego. though i do live in the middle east, so that is a bit different

Actually, yes, if a man treats a woman differently BECAUSE SHE IS FEMALE, that is sexism. That's the definition of sexism.

And yes, your habit of treating female persons differently on the basis of their sex is, of course, sexism. I'm not saying you should have to change your behavior, and you certainly can argue that you are right to be sexist if you want, just don't waste your time trying to argue that you aren't acting in a sexist manner.

You seem to be going a bit semantic here, and missing the point. He basically said, he does it as it improves his chance to have sex. Is every man or woman who goes to a nightclub who "hits" on the opposite sex sexist, as they are behaving differently towards them due to their gender?

Well, I'm a girl and I hold the door open for guys...
It's just polite, it doesn't matter if they're a guy or a girl.
She seems stupid.. Haha

Ok, so maybe all the femanists here could tell me if I really did something wrong, or if this girl was just having a bad day or something.

I think Ive posted enough here for people to know that Im a pretty outspoken, as much as I hate to use the term to describe myself (being a male, using this term in relation to myself causes confusion among the not so bright) feminist.

Im leaving class earlier this morning, and there is a girl behind me, whom I hold the door open for. This girl then proceeds to tell me that Im a chauvenistic pig because apperantly me holding the door open for her shows that I think women are incapable of doing anything for themselves. Its early, I havent had coffee or a cigarette yet, so I simply just allow the door to slam in her face mid sentence and walk away.

Now, Im well aware that women can indeed pull out their own chairs and open their own doors. The fact of the matter is its polite to hold the door open for someone (I do it for guys too!!!). The chair thing I admit I only do for women, but I usually only do that on dates anyway to score points:p.

So, the question I pose to the resident feminists and anyone else of course is, does doing this mean Im subconscienly sexist? I think that accusation is absurd, but hey, what the hell do I know?*

Maybe she meant "Chivalristic pig".

lol, i open doors for females and seniors, the girls call me a gentlemen, while the seniors say im such a fine young man, wonders for my ego. though i do live in the middle east, so that is a bit different

Nope, its pretty much the same around here too

how far behind you was she?

A foot or two.

also, were you in fact wearing a shirt that said something to the effect of "bitches aint shit but hoes and tricks"?

Ah, that might have been the problem:p

That is so stupid. I've held doors open for men, women, little boys, little girls, elderly men, elderly women. And I've had all those types of people hold doors open for me aswell.
One time someone mentioned the holding doors open thing and for one day I really took notice when peple held doors for me and I said "thank you" everyone seemed to be really shocked that I said thank you and were all like "ya, uh you're welcome" like I was thanking them for something they were supposed to be doing anyway.

(Wow, nine pages on door-opening. Slow news day, indeed.)

In my experience, flying off the handle at somebody who's trying to be polite isn't commonly accepted behavior among feminists. On the other hand, there does seem to be a moiety of people out there who hate politeness in any form. Maybe she was one of those folks.

Considering the fact that she was near screaming at me, no, trust me, she was 100% serious.

Serious about BANGING you!
:p
I know a girl who thinks I'm sexist because for the whole first month we hung out, I called her "pussycat" instead of her real name.
There are some girls I just don't understand... they flip out over little things like that.

K but seriously, sarcasm aside... there's nothing sexist about holding a door open.

(Wow, nine pages on door-opening. Slow news day, indeed.)

I'm bored today. And slightly pissed cuz I apparently missed all the "fast news days" in the last few weeks.:(

Considering the fact that she was near screaming at me, no, trust me, she was 100% serious. I can tell when people are just fucking around. She was not.



With her, I would have been afraid she would have shanked me if I made this joke.

She could have been having a very bad day. You never know what's going on in someone's life.

Idiots like this give a bad name to all those who support equality for women. She's probably one of those extreme feminist nuts, or she was just having a bad day, and was looking for a fight. There's no way what you did makes you sexist. This girl probably thinks all men are inherently sexist, like some people believe all whites are racist.:rolleyes: Its just outrage over past injustices carried too far. You should probably just ignore people like this. Personaly, though, I would probably be ruder. Maybe imitate Cartman and tell her to go back to the kitchen and bake me a pie. It would be worth it to watch her head expload.

Im leaving class earlier this morning, and there is a girl behind me, whom I hold the door open for. This girl then proceeds to tell me that Im a chauvenistic pig because apperantly me holding the door open for her shows that I think women are incapable of doing anything for themselves.
:headbang: Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. So doing something for someone else makes someone conclude that you're saying they can't do it? According to that kind of thinking we should never do anything for each other that people can do for themselves.

Its early, I havent had coffee or a cigarette yet, so I simply just allow the door to slam in her face mid sentence and walk away.
As far as I'm concerned that's a good response to someone who jumped to such ridiculous conclusions.

Now, Im well aware that women can indeed pull out their own chairs and open their own doors. The fact of the matter is its polite to hold the door open for someone (I do it for guys too!!!).
Which really goes to show that there's nothing inherently sexist about politeness... well, so long as you're not talking about it in the traditionalist sense. But the fact that you do the same for guys just shows how wrong she was when assuming it was all about sexism.

So, the question I pose to the resident feminists and anyone else of course is, does doing this mean Im subconscienly sexist? I think that accusation is absurd, but hey, what the hell do I know?
Probably more than someone who would react with hostility to having the door held open for them.

Im leaving class earlier this morning, and there is a girl behind me, whom I hold the door open for. This girl then proceeds to tell me that Im a chauvenistic pig because apperantly me holding the door open for her shows that I think women are incapable of doing anything for themselves. Its early, I havent had coffee or a cigarette yet, so I simply just allow the door to slam in her face mid sentence and walk away.

Good idea, perfect timing, I daresay... jolly good work, old chap.


So, the question I pose to the resident feminists and anyone else of course is, does doing this mean Im subconscienly sexist? I think that accusation is absurd, but hey, what the hell do I know?*

It's just being kind and polite. If being kind and polite means being a chauvinistic pig then be a chauvinistic pig.

By the way, mr.Chauvine was about nationalism, not sexism, but hey...

I keep the door open to men also, if the occasion arises. So what?

She could have been having a very bad day. You never know what's going on in someone's life.
*shrugs* I guess, but having a bad day isn't a reason to meet kindness with hostility.

I've been absurd with that before. With both men and women.

It just feels so mean to let the door close in someone's face... even if they're fifteen feet away....

I hate that awkward point where the person is not quite far enough away, that the door will shut way before they reach it but not near enough so that it doesn't feel foolish standing there holding open a door when no-one is walking through it.

O the indecision...

I hope this hasn't been posted already. (http://www.explosm.net/comics/1200/)

*shrugs* I guess, but having a bad day isn't a reason to meet kindness with hostility.

Oh course not. But it could be a reason that a normally rationaly person would have a totally irrational and unreasonable response.

This is the first time this has happened, and Ive been holding doors open for people since...well...since I was old enough to hold the door open for someone.

Im hoping Amor, Bottle or someone will come in and be the voice of the rational feminists.

To the rescue!

Ok, so maybe all the femanists here could tell me if I really did something wrong, or if this girl was just having a bad day or something.

I think Ive posted enough here for people to know that Im a pretty outspoken, as much as I hate to use the term to describe myself (being a male, using this term in relation to myself causes confusion among the not so bright) feminist.

Im leaving class earlier this morning, and there is a girl behind me, whom I hold the door open for. This girl then proceeds to tell me that Im a chauvenistic pig because apperantly me holding the door open for her shows that I think women are incapable of doing anything for themselves. Its early, I havent had coffee or a cigarette yet, so I simply just allow the door to slam in her face mid sentence and walk away.

Now, Im well aware that women can indeed pull out their own chairs and open their own doors. The fact of the matter is its polite to hold the door open for someone (I do it for guys too!!!). The chair thing I admit I only do for women, but I usually only do that on dates anyway to score points:p.

So, the question I pose to the resident feminists and anyone else of course is, does doing this mean Im subconscienly sexist? I think that accusation is absurd, but hey, what the hell do I know?*

I know Dyakovo is going to just quote that part and say nothing, so Im expecting that:p.

The girl seems like an uneducated, unintelligent, ungracious individual. What you did was in no way sexist. It's polite to open the door for anyone behind you. I hold the door open for the people behind me, whether they're male or female, and I'm sure you'd do the same thing.

Plus, even if she saw it as an act of chivalry rather than a simple act of politeness, it's still not sexist. It's just nice to open a door for a someone.

She's not a feminist. She's simply an idiot who was having a bad day. Don't feel bad about it.

I tend to think holding the door open for anyone, if you are so inclined, is simply a polite gesture.

Exactly.

I always hold the door open for whom ever is behind me - it is a matter of practicality as much as anything else.

Exactly.

My holding doors open has nothing to do with some misguided concept of Chivalry, its just simple politeness.

And I think most people would understand that.

Holding a door open for somebody IMO is NOT sexist. It is just courtesy. I get pissed off when somebody doesn't at least TRY to keep the door open if I am right behind them. Some of them doors swing back fast and a few times I have been smacked in the face before I could even get my arm out to hold it off.

I hate that. The worst thing is when people don't hold the door for you, and it's the kind of door that locks when it closes, so you have to get your keys out!

I think that the issue there was that girl is an idiot, being polite does not make you a chauvinist pig.

*nods*

There is never an excuse for being rude, no matter what ones opinion is regarding something.

She was rude. If she thinks you are a chauvanist pig, so be it, but it gives her no license to be rude.

Being rude conveys only one thing...immaturity.

Only a simpleton can't convey a point without being rude about it.

I agree with you about her rudeness, but I don't think that she had any reason to think he was a chauvanist pig.

Idiots like this give a bad name to all those who support equality for women. She's probably one of those extreme feminist nuts, or she was just having a bad day, and was looking for a fight. There's no way what you did makes you sexist. This girl probably thinks all men are inherently sexist, like some people believe all whites are racist.:rolleyes: Its just outrage over past injustices carried too far. You should probably just ignore people like this. Personaly, though, I would probably be ruder. Maybe imitate Cartman and tell her to go back to the kitchen and bake me a pie. It would be worth it to watch her head expload.

Those people drive me NUTS.

I hate that. The worst thing is when people don't hold the door for you, and it's the kind of door that locks when it closes, so you have to get your keys out!

In fairness, sometimes that's wise if you're entering a secure building (perhaps late at night) and you don't know who the person behind you is. College dorm rapes can happen that way.

That's someone just being a b*tch.
If that's how she always is, let's hope she never reproduces.

In response to OP:

I'm too late to join the discussion, so I'll just say, hoping nobody came with this before: next time you meet that girl, greet her by bowing down, grabbing her hand and kissing it ;)

I think that, instead of calling him a chauvinistic pig, she might accuse him of sexual harassment. That´s how screwed up some of us women can be.:D

Back to topic: In all fairness, I seriously don´t think he was being condescending or anything. He was just being polite with the girl. She´s the one with problems by insulting him, and I´m a girl.

Oh course not. But it could be a reason that a normally rationaly person would have a totally irrational and unreasonable response.
... fair enough. Come to think of it, I guess I was a bit quick to judge the individual, sometimes I tend to jump the gun unnecessarily myself...

That's someone just being a b*tch.
If that's how she always is, let's hope she never reproduces.
I think that's a bit much.

She could have been having a very bad day. You never know what's going on in someone's life.

While I wouldn't discount this as a possibility, I don't go around calling people prejudiced when I have a bad day. Especially when someone is doing something nice for someone else.

Girls should hold open doors for guys.

Yeah, that almost never happens for me.

In fairness, sometimes that's wise if you're entering a secure building (perhaps late at night) and you don't know who the person behind you is. College dorm rapes can happen that way.

Well obviously I'm not suggesting that you open doors without considering safety. :rolleyes:

Well obviously I'm not suggesting that you open doors without considering safety. :rolleyes:

He made a good point and he prefaced it with 'in fairness' - does that warrant rolleyes?

He made a good point and he prefaced it with 'in fairness' - does that warrant rolleyes?

He took my post out of context.

Yeah, that almost never happens for me.

Poor You!!!!!!!!!!

While I wouldn't discount this as a possibility, I don't go around calling people prejudiced when I have a bad day. Especially when someone is doing something nice for someone else.

We dont' know that she goes around doing that. We also don't know how that action was percieved by her. Other things in her life could have profoundly impacted her perception and her irritibility. Seriously, we dont' know what was going on in her life at that moment. She could have just had a loved one die, she could be getting evicted, her scholarships might not have come through, or who knows what else. Some people handle stress rather well, some fall apart.

I'm not saying either way, I'm saying that it's impossible to know based on this one tiny incident what's going on in her head. What is apparent is that she had a very strong and irrational reaction to an innocous gesture. That generally means there's something more going on in her life.

Ok, so maybe all the femanists here could tell me if I really did something wrong, or if this girl was just having a bad day or something.

I think Ive posted enough here for people to know that Im a pretty outspoken, as much as I hate to use the term to describe myself (being a male, using this term in relation to myself causes confusion among the not so bright) feminist.

Im leaving class earlier this morning, and there is a girl behind me, whom I hold the door open for. This girl then proceeds to tell me that Im a chauvenistic pig because apperantly me holding the door open for her shows that I think women are incapable of doing anything for themselves. Its early, I havent had coffee or a cigarette yet, so I simply just allow the door to slam in her face mid sentence and walk away.

Now, Im well aware that women can indeed pull out their own chairs and open their own doors. The fact of the matter is its polite to hold the door open for someone (I do it for guys too!!!). The chair thing I admit I only do for women, but I usually only do that on dates anyway to score points:p.

So, the question I pose to the resident feminists and anyone else of course is, does doing this mean Im subconscienly sexist? I think that accusation is absurd, but hey, what the hell do I know?*

You are a chauvinist pig. A male, chauvinist, pig.

He made a good point and he prefaced it with 'in fairness' - does that warrant rolleyes?

I even said "sometimes".

He took my post out of context.

And you replied like I'd called you a foul name. Your post was in the context of holding doors open. All I was saying is that in SOME circumstances, it could be unwise. I was not suggesting that you were advocating college dorm rape or anything of the sort.

Having read many of your replies to other posters, I have to mildly agree with those who are of the opinion that you are prone to a bit of defensiveness or overreaction.

You are a chauvinist pig. A male, chauvinist, pig.

You bolded the word "polite" in the post you quoted and then called the OP a male chauvinist pig. Care to elaborate, or is this some kind of riddle?

EDIT: I'm a moron and the bolding was in the OP already. I apologize for the mischaracterization, but the question still stands.

You bolded the word "polite" in the post you quoted

No, that's in the OP.

No, that's in the OP.

Ah, shit. I apologize, and retract. Still, was Aelosia joking?

Ah, shit. I apologize, and retract. Still, was Aelosia joking?

Yes I was.

I hold the door for men all the time, I wonder if that makes me a feminist chauvinist pig.

My 2 cents, the girl was just a piece of work, I'd had let her speaking alone, closing the door after me, that is.

I've actually opened a door for a woman once without even going through myself.

The door was bloody hard to open and she was holding stuff in both hands, so I rather think I'm morally in the clear there.

Yes I was.

I hold the door for men all the time, I wonder if that makes me a feminist chauvinist pig.

My 2 cents, the girl was just a piece of work, I'd had let her speaking alone, closing the door after me, that is.

Okay, thanks. Lately I've been getting a lot of flak for not being able to tell when someone's joking when there's little or no evidence to suggest they are.

The woman in the OP is probably just another member of Lezbollah.

Statistically, women are better shots than men, too.

I notice a potentially self-selecting sample there. There is a stereotype against women shooting guns (however justified or unjustified), so those women who overcome or avoid being discouraged by that stereotype are likely to be above average.

(Your random statistician's thought for the day.)

Actually, yes, if a man treats a woman differently BECAUSE SHE IS FEMALE, that is sexism. That's the definition of sexism.

And yes, your habit of treating female persons differently on the basis of their sex is, of course, sexism. I'm not saying you should have to change your behavior, and you certainly can argue that you are right to be sexist if you want, just don't waste your time trying to argue that you aren't acting in a sexist manner.

You've completely missed my point.

I'll try one more time, because I think it's a valuable point that everyone would benefit from understanding. I never said that the behavior I ascribed to myself was not sexism according to your definition. What I'm trying to say is that if your definition of sexism is as simplistic as that, then the term loses all its effect. The term 'sexist,' like the term 'racist' and the term 'prejudiced,' has a negative connotation and a force. Their purpose is to draw attention to wrongs that need to be corrected. If you use a definition of sexist, or racist, or prejudiced, that applies equally well to actions that do not need to be corrected, then the terms lose their force when applied to actions that do need to be corrected.

I don't deny that I treat women differently because they are women. I merely posit that a definition of sexist as simple as that makes everyone sexist. If everyone is sexist, and cannot reasonably be expected not to be, then the term sexist can no longer imply something that needs to be changed.

All straight men treat women differently than they treat men, and they do so because they are women. All gay men treat women differently than they treat men, and they do so because they are women. All straight women treat women differently than they treat men, and they do so because they are women. All gay women treat women differently than they treat men, and they do so because they are women. Bisexuals, in fact, do the same thing, because they are interested in men for different reasons and for different specific activities than they are interested in women.

Sexism cannot be defined as "treating women differently than men because they are women," because if it is defined in that way, it becomes an irrelevant truism.