NationStates Jolt Archive

Hey, all

I am a tubby, weak, soft-handed 35 year old American (note I am not saying all Americans are fat or weak, I'm including that as a separate piece of information).

I've tried religion, tried joining a cult, tried meditation, nothing has worked. I can't live with what I am, I have to change, radically.

So, my question is this: At my age, is it possible to be "born again hard" through military service?

I'm told militaries are able to "tear you down, then build you up into something strong". Is that recruiting poster horseshit, or do they actually do this?

I was planning on starting Law School in September, and I've been accepted to a number of programs, but I'm worried that, as a weak human, I won't really be able to serve my clients when their ass is on the line. Failing myself is one thing, but failing people who really need me would surely damn me.

So, folks from around the world, give me your thoughts: Can a weak 35 year old failure be "reborn" into something strong through a military service?

yes.

but go to police academy instead. hard training with no committment.

As a "tubby, soft handed," individual, I think you'll get torn apart in basic training.

Go for it.

So, folks from around the world, give me your thoughts: Can a weak 35 year old failure be "reborn" into something strong through a military service?

If you don't die, sure! Military discipline and conditioning can easily get you to see life in a totally different perspective.

Of course if the military thing doesn't work out, you can enroll in some courses with a PMC.

Ultimately change comes from within, no harm in looking for outside props to help that change but, well I'm sure you've self-analysed to death and know the truths, just afraid to face those changes.

Radical attempts to change rarely work because you're going into it with the view that it's hard, that it takes commitment, that you're denying yourself.

You should look at it as an opportunity for release, freedom, being happy with yourself.

Baby steps work far better.

I'm sure you know the issues, work out concrete goals to initiate change.

I think.

Who am I to judge?

Just another little thing. If you want to sample what that sort of change would be like, you might like to check out the site hoo-ah.net. I'm not sure if it's real, but it may help you out. If it doesn't, at least it'll entertain you. :D

yes.

but go to police academy instead. hard training with no committment.

Are law enforcement programs as rigorous and "break you down into nothing and build you back up"?

Wonder if I should finish Law School before applying to a police academy...

Thank you for an interesting suggestion, I'll think about it.

If you don't die, sure! Military discipline and conditioning can easily get you to see life in a totally different perspective.

Of course if the military thing doesn't work out, you can enroll in some courses with a PMC.

PMC? I shall google.

Ultimately change comes from within, no harm in looking for outside props to help that change but, well I'm sure you've self-analysed to death and know the truths, just afraid to face those changes.

Radical attempts to change rarely work because you're going into it with the view that it's hard, that it takes commitment, that you're denying yourself.


And this mentality pollutes the effort to change? I'm sorry, I know very little about self-development.


You should look at it as an opportunity for release, freedom, being happy with yourself.

Baby steps work far better.

I'm sure you know the issues, work out concrete goals to initiate change.

I think.

Who am I to judge?

I tend to take Baby Steps in the wrong direction, the issue is that I'm profoundly weak and undisciplined. However, your assessment seems both reasonable and reflective.

Joining the military just because you think you're soft and you want to be hard... well. That's a bad idea.

Radical life changes at age 35.... now that sounds like an oncoming midlife crisis.

Face it, you're not ever going to be 19 again. Ever! If you don't like how soft you are, change it. But joining a profession whose duty is essentially to kill people? You're not fooling me buddy.

Joining the military just because you think you're soft and you want to be hard... well. That's a bad idea.

Radical life changes at age 35.... now that sounds like an oncoming midlife crisis.

Face it, you're not ever going to be 19 again. Ever! If you don't like how soft you are, change it. But joining a profession whose duty is essentially to kill people? You're not fooling me buddy.

I like your direct response, but not sure I completely understand.

I should confess that I've been a failure the entirety of my adult life.

I believe (to the extent one can judge one's own motivations) that I'm sincere in this.

If it works, it will give me everything. Right now, I feel I have nothing (easy thing for me to say, considering I live in a safe, industrialized country in a comfortable home with ample professional and educational opportunities).

Help me understand the "fooling" part. I honestly believe that I want to do this, but I don't know if it will work.

I don't understand.

What do you mean by "weak" and "failure"?

I like your direct response, but not sure I completely understand.

I should confess that I've been a failure the entirety of my adult life.

A failure at what? Let me guess, everything right?

I believe (to the extent one can judge one's own motivations) that I'm sincere in this.

If it works, it will give me everything.

Yeah being government property sure makes for winners. I can't count how many people I used to think were losers until I learned that they joined the military. Though technically you can't count 0 items.

Right now, I feel I have nothing (easy thing for me to say, considering I live in a safe, industrialized country in a comfortable home with ample professional and educational opportunities).

So you feel guilty and want to "live rough" as some sort of punishment for your own successes. Or die. You want to test yourself one last time, and if you fail you have eternal peace, if you succeed you have interesting stories to tell at the bar and women will see you as less of a loser?

I dunno, I don't think you are joining the military for the right reason.

Help me understand the "fooling" part. I honestly believe that I want to do this, but I don't know if it will work.

Your expectations seems to be "It will give me everything." You are setting yourself up for disappoint right there. It sounds like you're having some low morale and an identity crisis, and like most men I think (at times), you are thinking the military will settle both issues. You're fooling yourself if so. I think above all you should check out your life and quit this "I'm a loser" business. If you are, then joining the military won't help, you'll just become a military loser. But I rather think judgements of "loser" in such a broad context as this are just put-downs instead of realistic appraisals of anything.

Are you smart enough to pass the Bar exam? if so then you obviously havnt failed at everything unless you have buried bodies somewhere that your not telling us about. Get yourself a nice salary and buy yourself a nice red sports car and youll be fine.

I don't understand.

What do you mean by "weak" and "failure"?

I'm weak in almost every respect. Physically, obviously, but also mentally. I quit, everything. Early and often.

At 17 I got a Board of Trustess Scholarship to a top engineering school. Didn't go to class, didn't read, dropped almost every class, flunked out in a year.

Tried to make it as a writer, got my name on a couple books in "special thanks", but after 6 weeks, couldn't get published, so I bailed. Worked in retail, quitting every job after a few months.

Got a business degree, went to be an accountant, hated it, quit after six months.

Became a teacher in Japan, came home after six months. Got a job as an organic chemistry lab assistant, tried to become a biochemist, got a B on an exam, quit.

Went to work in physics, only published as co-author on one paper, spent 3 hours trying to figure out Planck's early work in quantum mechanics, couldn't get it, quit.

Now, Law School. Got 97th percentile on the LSAT, but my shitty UGPA (3.11) will keep me out of the best schools. Probably won't be any good at it anyway.

I figure in the service, a) they shoot you if you run and b) they totally break you down and rebuild you (allegedly).

Your too old for the military at this point. Once you realize your leagues smarter then the guy yelling at you that your a maggot it loses its effectivness.

Are you smart enough to pass the Bar exam? if so then you obviously havnt failed at everything unless you have buried bodies somewhere that your not telling us about. Get yourself a nice salary and buy yourself a nice red sports car and youll be fine.

I'm not sure, haven't started Law School yet, much less taken the bar.

I got a 169 on the LSAT, which I'm sure is much much easier than the Bar, but if its indicative at all, I might have a decent chance.

So, folks from around the world, give me your thoughts: Can a weak 35 year old failure be "reborn" into something strong through a military service?

The military won't just take you as-is, if you're too weak or too tubby. If you can get in good enough shape to be accepted, then you'll know that you might have the potential.

Anyway, I've never known anyone who has joined the military at that age, but it has done wonders for many people I've met, including a few people in my family.

So you feel guilty and want to "live rough" as some sort of punishment for your own successes. Or die. You want to test yourself one last time, and if you fail you have eternal peace, if you succeed you have interesting stories to tell at the bar and women will see you as less of a loser?

Except for the successes part, this rendition appears apt. Absurd as it is, quite apt.


Your expectations seems to be "It will give me everything." You are setting yourself up for disappoint right there. It sounds like you're having some low morale and an identity crisis, and like most men I think (at times), you are thinking the military will settle both issues. You're fooling yourself if so. I think above all you should check out your life and quit this "I'm a loser" business. If you are, then joining the military won't help, you'll just become a military loser. But I rather think judgements of "loser" in such a broad context as this are just put-downs instead of realistic appraisals of anything.

In a strange way, I could cope with just being a loser. I once worked in a comic book store with this semi-literate mouth breather, and we had to constantly cover for his mistakes. But in a strange way, he was content.

Whatever I am, I can't stand it anymore.

May I ask, do you feel that the military is inherently wrong in some ways, whether politically, philsophically, etc? Do you feel that anyone should join the military?

I am in no way trying to challenge or dispute your view, I just want to make sure I understand your position.

Are you smart enough to pass the Bar exam? if so then you obviously havnt failed at everything unless you have buried bodies somewhere that your not telling us about. Get yourself a nice salary and buy yourself a nice red sports car and youll be fine.

Heh. The bar exam isn't an IQ test. :p

Your too old for the military at this point. Once you realize your leagues smarter then the guy yelling at you that your a maggot it loses its effectivness.

One thing of which I'm reasonably certain is that I am not smarter than anyone, barring those with acute clinical cognitive disorders, such as retardation or Down's Syndrome.

Short of that, I can hardly posture myself as intellectually more potent than anyone.

The military won't just take you as-is, if you're too weak or too tubby. If you can get in good enough shape to be accepted, then you'll know that you might have the potential.

Anyway, I've never known anyone who has joined the military at that age, but it has done wonders for many people I've met, including a few people in my family.

Well, I have 3 or 4 years to train, since I've been offered a few full-ride scholarship offers to some of the crappier institutions, I can go to Law School while I train for the military.

If no other Service will accept me, I'm told the French Foreign Legion will accept applicants up to 40.

I'm weak in almost every respect. Physically, obviously, but also mentally. I quit, everything. Early and often.

At 17 I got a Board of Trustess Scholarship to a top engineering school. Didn't go to class, didn't read, dropped almost every class, flunked out in a year.

Tried to make it as a writer, got my name on a couple books in "special thanks", but after 6 weeks, couldn't get published, so I bailed. Worked in retail, quitting every job after a few months.

Got a business degree, went to be an accountant, hated it, quit after six months.

Became a teacher in Japan, came home after six months. Got a job as an organic chemistry lab assistant, tried to become a biochemist, got a B on an exam, quit.

Went to work in physics, only published as co-author on one paper, spent 3 hours trying to figure out Planck's early work in quantum mechanics, couldn't get it, quit.

Now, Law School. Got 97th percentile on the LSAT, but my shitty UGPA (3.11) will keep me out of the best schools. Probably won't be any good at it anyway.

I figure in the service, a) they shoot you if you run and b) they totally break you down and rebuild you (allegedly).

So you'll quit everything unless someone is making you stay? If you want to take an action then take the following action: continue.

Just don't quit today. Or the next day. Or the day after that.

Just don't quit a day at a time.

Well, I have 3 or 4 years to train, since I've been offered a few full-ride scholarship offers to some of the crappier institutions, I can go to Law School while I train for the military.

If no other Service will accept me, I'm told the French Foreign Legion will accept applicants up to 40.

Surely a J.D. is prestigious enough that you wouldn't be thought a "loser" by too many, don't you think? Not that I quite understand the concept of being a "loser," since I haven't heard the term in general use since gradeschool, but it's certainly a meaningful accomplishment, anyway. Unless you're looking specifically to perform some feat of physical endurance, such as military training, I would think you'd find enough recongnition in achieving a terminal degree - not many people ever do.

So you'll quit everything unless someone is making you stay? If you want to take an action then take the following action: continue.

Just don't quit today. Or the next day. Or the day after that.

Just don't quit a day at a time.

Sounds very Twelve Steps.

I don't say that in a perjorative sense, merely that the methodology sounds parallel to ideas I've seen applied to those in substance abuse scenarios.

Unfortunately, if left to my own weak will, even persisting for a single turning of the world...pathetic, I admit, but I wouldn't make it.

Surely a J.D. is prestigious enough that you wouldn't be thought a "loser" by too many, don't you think? Not that I quite understand the concept of being a "loser," since I haven't heard the term in general use since gradeschool, but it's certainly a meaningful accomplishment, anyway. Unless you're looking specifically to perform some feat of physical endurance, such as military training, I would think you'd find enough recongnition in achieving a terminal degree - not many people ever do.

My concern is, even were I to complete the JD, what happens when a case becomes particularly acrimonious, my client's freedom or fortune sitting vulnerable to voracious parties, and as they gather around, the only thing defending my client...

...is me.

I'm terrified that when the time comes, I won't be what I need to be to protect those who put their trust in me.

Those times, like when Christopher Walken says, "Its too late to be scared."

Its possible to be well educated and still weak, and that's why I haven't formally accepted any offers yet.

Except for the successes part, this rendition appears apt. Absurd as it is, quite apt.

Absurd indeed. You have so many successes you don't even think they exist. Why don't you appreciate what you have instead of veritably killing yourself to get some magic pills you think you will appreciate?

In a strange way, I could cope with just being a loser. I once worked in a comic book store with this semi-literate mouth breather, and we had to constantly cover for his mistakes. But in a strange way, he was content.

Whatever I am, I can't stand it anymore.

Clearly you desire to change but, the military won't do it for you. Since you'll be doing it yourself, why not simply change without joining? The pay is better in law, let me tell you.


May I ask, do you feel that the military is inherently wrong in some ways, whether politically, philsophically, etc? Do you feel that anyone should join the military?

I am in no way trying to challenge or dispute your view, I just want to make sure I understand your position.

I think the military markets itself, at least in the US, to people like you. They want to take advantage of your weakness by instilling you with the media-image of the big tough soldier-boys. It's a utopian sounding offer, and maybe you would get something out of it. But I don't think so.

I don't think the military is a way to seek personal change, unless you mean like helping get through college or something but you don't need that. And generally, considering what the US is currently doing with its military no, I don't recommend that anyone join at this time. The last thing this world needs is an army of people looking to improve their happiness by invading and occupying other nations, yet that's what we got going here.

But perhaps what you are really looking for is a big shock, an external motivation factor to kick you in the ass and get you to change whatever it is you don't like about yourself? You need a near-death experience so you can end a near-life experience?

If no other Service will accept me, I'm told the French Foreign Legion will accept applicants up to 40.

Well, you better get your facts straight.

www.foreignlegionlife.com/chapter1.htm

The Legion will NOT be easier then the military or a PMC.

But perhaps what you are really looking for is a big shock, an external motivation factor to kick you in the ass and get you to change whatever it is you don't like about yourself? You need a near-death experience so you can end a near-life experience?

Yes, I believe your description here is accurate and illustrative of my goal.

To be honest, I share your critique of the present "defense" policies of the US, but I believe that will soon change. Either way, the role of the individual soldier (a contradiction in terms, I admit, as individuality is the first price extracted from the enlistee, I would guess) may be less blameworthy.

Just do a martial arts discipline. Make it clear to yourself that you won't quit before you have a black belt.

It'll get you into shape physically and mentally, give you the self-esteem of knowing that you have achieved something and involve stopping being a quitter.

Because no one can make you stop quitting things. You can still quit the military at pretty much any point if you're serious. So you have to stop it yourself, and there are no easy answers beyond that. Sorry.

Why did you quit the stuff you were trying to do?

My concern is, even were I to complete the JD, what happens when a case becomes particularly acrimonious, my client's freedom or fortune sitting vulnerable to voracious parties, and as they gather around, the only thing defending my client...

...is me.

I'm terrified that when the time comes, I won't be what I need to be to protect those who put their trust in me.

Those times, like when Christopher Walken says, "Its too late to be scared."

Its possible to be well educated and still weak, and that's why I haven't formally accepted any offers yet.

Lawyers, in my experience, don't agonize over the fate of their clients. They do the best they can do, but they don't lose sleep over it. I interned for a while as a law student before going another way, and had a friend who actually assisted in defending clients in capital murder cases around the same time - you never saw a more jovial group. It was unbelievable. :p So I'd say, just relax, and maybe intern somewhere to see how you like it. Your fear of failure sounds a bit excessive, but law school and (more importantly) practical job experience will build up your competence. That should give you some measure of self-confidence.

Well, you better get your facts straight.

www.foreignlegionlife.com/chapter1.htm

The Legion will NOT be easier then the military or a PMC.

Thank you for introducing me to PMCs (I was not previously familiar with the term or what it describes, but I have reviewed some online information. Fascinating, frankly.)

To be honest, if I am reading this urge within me correctly, I don't want something too easy.

I desire something rigorous, where they shoot you if you quit.

FOREWARNING - I am not medically qualified. My write is a suggestion, not based on training, or experience.

Age 35 and considering a legal profession, or a military profession... based on percieved (biased?) lack of self-esteem...

One - get a therapist. "To ask for help is not a weakness, to depend on it, is". Therapy might help. Keep at it. For life. If one Dr. does not work, do not worry about it, go to a different one.

Consider the possibility:
...You might be depressed.
...You might be given pills to stabalise your mood.
...It is not permanant. :)


Two - DO NOT ANSWER THIS PUBLICLY, as it is no ones business, BUT YOUR OWN:
2.a - still live at home with your parents?
2.b - unemployed?
2.c - have not had sexual relations with another human in about 15 years?
2.d - your only friends are located at:
2.d.1 - internet?
2.d.2 - internet games?
2.d.3 - chat rooms or fora like NationStates, or AIM?
2.d.4 - pubs/bars?
2.e - if you drink alcohol, do you drink alone?

IF you can answer NO to all of those questions, or most, or some, or even one, you are not a failure.

Therefore, in my personal opionion...get over yourself; we all have bad times in our lives, this too will pass.

If however you ansered yes to one or more, tell the therapy people. If you think you will lie, ever, in a session, consider hypnotherapy.

THREE - read my forewarning again.

-Rafe

Just do a martial arts discipline. Make it clear to yourself that you won't quit before you have a black belt.

It'll get you into shape physically and mentally, give you the self-esteem of knowing that you have achieved something and involve stopping being a quitter.

Because no one can make you stop quitting things. You can still quit the military at pretty much any point if you're serious. So you have to stop it yourself, and there are no easy answers beyond that. Sorry.

You offer a very pragmatic suggestion. This has proven to be a fertile thread (for me, at least).

I, sadly, have no capacity to make anything clear to myself. If I can quit, I will. This is not just history, its almost habitual at this point.

I'm hoping to find a military situation where, if you don't do your job, the consequences are immediate, brutal, and utterly conclusive.

Why did you quit the stuff you were trying to do?

Because I was entirely and inexcusably bad at them.

I desire something rigorous, where they shoot you if you quit.

But you see, that's not going to help you. Joining any such armed force is going to kill you, one way or another. If you genuinely want to change your life for the better, the motivation has got to come from within yourself.

Yes, I believe your description here is accurate and illustrative of my goal.

Then drive dangerously. Take up smoking. Be a weekend warrior. Jump out of planes. Go dirtbike racing. What do you need to make you realize that you WILL die, and that you're wasting your time with all this worrying? The military is a gigantic step.

To be honest, I share your critique of the present "defense" policies of the US, but I believe that will soon change. Either way, the role of the individual soldier (a contradiction in terms, I admit, as individuality is the first price extracted from the enlistee, I would guess) may be less blameworthy.

That's an awful lot to gamble with. I for one don't see our military policy changing. Even if it gets better, it's still going to be ugly, dirty, cheap and frankly - evil - on enough levels...

You seem like an INTP, but even if not it sounds to me like the military would be hell for you. You think too much. And you might wind up Private Pyle-ing yourself...

Lawyers, in my experience, don't agonize over the fate of their clients. They do the best they can do, but they don't lose sleep over it. I interned for a while as a law student before going another way, and had a friend who actually assisted in defending clients in capital murder cases around the same time - you never saw a more jovial group. It was unbelievable. :p So I'd say, just relax, and maybe intern somewhere to see how you like it. Your fear of failure sounds a bit excessive, but law school and (more importantly) practical job experience will build up your competence. That should give you some measure of self-confidence.

During my time as an accountant, I worked with an intellectual property rights firm. Interesting people, some very intriguing backgrounds. I did notice that they often excercise the same kind of professional detachment that marks the medical field.

Sadly, I'm already kept up at night by the thought of failing a client I haven't even met yet. For whatever reason, knowing that someone might be out there, sweating the outcome of their matter, and the outcome is, at least partially, a function of my diligence and intelligence.

Because I was entirely and inexcusably bad at them.

There are lots of jobs that don't require skill. Tried them?

Edit: I ask this, not as a suggestion but because I suspect you haven't and the reason is because deep down you know you're better than what you say or even what you think. I'd agree with the poster who suggestion therapy (but with the same disclaimer!) because it sounds like you have sizeable esteem issues.

I think you could get the same benefits by writing in to "You Are What You Eat" and getting on the show. But possibly just because I've been watching BBC America all day.

As a world-class lazy ass, my advice is to accept your inner laziness and go with it. As long as you're not starving, you're all right.

I desire something rigorous, where they shoot you if you quit.
First of all, that will involve going into a warzone and joining a less than official group. The US military doesn't just shoot people even if they try and quit Iraq - they put them in jail. In fact, going to jail is pretty much the standard punishment in all western militaries.

Which leaves 3rd world country armies and militias. And before those see you as a potential recruit rather than a victim you'll have done all the "sticking with something" you'd need. And besides, there are things that one probably should quit. The LRA, Malaria and people getting hacked with machetes belong to that group.

Secondly, if someone shoots you if you quit, then you haven't actually stopped being a quitter. As soon as the threat of getting shot stops, you'll quit. What you actually want is something that changes you, and that doesn't have to be the military. In fact, that's a pretty crappy reason to join a military full stop.

I stick to the idea of learning martial arts. If you get friends and family involved in not letting you quit (ideally get someone to go learn it with you) and just generally tell everyone you'll be a black belt (to get that pride factor involved), that has better chances of success.

But if you really want a change of scenery, just join an overseas aid organisation as an on-the-ground volunteer. If you end up sitting in Darfur in the desert with starving people around you, just dropping everything and going back becomes a hell of a lot more complicated. Who knows, maybe you'll even find something you actually care about, and that's usually the safest way to prevent quitting. At the very least, you'll be helping rather than shooting people, which is a plus too.

During my time as an accountant, I worked with an intellectual property rights firm. Interesting people, some very intriguing backgrounds. I did notice that they often excercise the same kind of professional detachment that marks the medical field.

Sadly, I'm already kept up at night by the thought of failing a client I haven't even met yet. For whatever reason, knowing that someone might be out there, sweating the outcome of their matter, and the outcome is, at least partially, a function of my diligence and intelligence.

Seems like taking care of that anxiety would be an important first step, no matter what you end up doing. People might be depending on you in life-or-death situations in the military, yes? There's room for anxiety to seep in in any line of work, if you let it.

FOREWARNING - I am not medically qualified. My write is a suggestion, not based on training, or experience.


I acknowledge and respect your disclaimer, and agree to hold you blameless in perpetuity for any outcomes associated with any advice or interaction between us.



Consider the possibility:
...You might be depressed.
...You might be given pills to stabalise your mood.
...It is not permanant. :)


Two - DO NOT ANSWER THIS PUBLICLY, as it is no ones business, BUT YOUR OWN:
2.a - still live at home with your parents?
2.b - unemployed?
2.c - have not had sexual relations with another human in about 15 years?
2.d - your only friends are located at:
2.d.1 - internet?
2.d.2 - internet games?
2.d.3 - chat rooms or fora like NationStates, or AIM?
2.d.4 - pubs/bars?
2.e - if you drink alcohol, do you drink alone?
-Rafe

I've tried therapy. Typically, I wind up just frustrating a well meaning professional. I've also tried neurochemical approaches in association with therapy. No positive results to date, ten years.

I live on my own, I teach part time to feed myself. I have frequent sex with a regular partner, but I think we will break up soon. I have friends I shoot pool with, and I have dinner with our "couple" friends two or three nights a week.

I don't drink often, but on occasion imbibe what are called "girly drinks" like cosmos, amarettos, mixed drinks, etc.

I actually resorted to therapy before religion, a cult, etc. Its a very reasonable and sound suggestion, but I feel its been exhausted. I could spend the rest of my life waiting for the "right" therapist. I can't wait any longer.

And this mentality pollutes the effort to change? I'm sorry, I know very little about self-development.

Yes it does - it continues your rut of starting something and quitting, you know what you need to do, you try something but you're already viewing it as a challenge, you're simply setting yourself up for defeat.

It's like quitting cigarettes, where people think the equivalent of 'I must deprive myself of something I enjoy' - well, you're going to fail to be honest.

Far better to look at what you would enjoy and don't look at the big picture, look at the small steps.

It may be really simple, it may be that you should go and watch an interesting film every Sunday evening. It's not so much the film as the sticking to going every Sunday evening - there's dual benefits in sticking to something that, frankly, is really easy and enjoyable, allowing you to start on the next improvement in your life as well as just naturally being of benefit.

It may be, I'll get up an hour early every day and take a walk in the park.

Starting to structure your life in this way helps you move onto the next structure - there's a balance at some point but I'm sure you'll find it.

But you see, that's not going to help you. Joining any such armed force is going to kill you, one way or another. If you genuinely want to change your life for the better, the motivation has got to come from within yourself.

If this is true, I am thoroughly doomed.

My only hope is that, at least for me, it is possible for motivation to come at gun point.

You seem like an INTP, but even if not it sounds to me like the military would be hell for you. You think too much. And you might wind up Private Pyle-ing yourself...

INTP? I'm sorry, I don't know the term.

Heh, so many accuse me of thinking too much. If only I thought well...

I do get the Pyle reference, as I enjoy film very much. Kubrick's "Full Metal Jacket"?

Now that I think about it, that film is probably where the phrase of my original post came from.

Well, that's always a risk. But at this point, hundreds of years of professional experience in tearing people apart and recrafting them into something potent seems like it would have a better chance than going dirt biking.

There are lots of jobs that don't require skill. Tried them?

Edit: I ask this, not as a suggestion but because I suspect you haven't and the reason is because deep down you know you're better than what you say or even what you think. I'd agree with the poster who suggestion therapy (but with the same disclaimer!) because it sounds like you have sizeable esteem issues.

Yes, I've had quite a few turns at unskilled labor. It leaves me too much time to realize that I'm doing something meaningless and just subsisting.

Therapy...a number of highly trained people made a very long and dedicated series of attempts. Unfortunately, even the most gifted artisan can't sculpt with nothing.

Yes, I've had quite a few turns at unskilled labor. It leaves me too much time to realize that I'm doing something meaningless and just subsisting.

Therapy...a number of highly trained people made a very long and dedicated series of attempts. Unfortunately, even the most gifted artisan can't sculpt with nothing.

Have you ever considered getting over yourself?

I think you could get the same benefits by writing in to "You Are What You Eat" and getting on the show. But possibly just because I've been watching BBC America all day.

As a world-class lazy ass, my advice is to accept your inner laziness and go with it. As long as you're not starving, you're all right.

Very eastern, heh.

Unfortunately, as well fed as I am, corpulent even, something in my mind will not permit me to be as I am.

Does BBC still do Red Dwarf? I loved Red Dwarf.

Have you ever considered getting over yourself?

Yes. Tried that after religion but before the cult. Didn't take.

INTP? I'm sorry, I don't know the term.

Google it. It's a personality thing from psychology. Entered into the popular discourse.

But at this point, hundreds of years of professional experience in tearing people apart and recrafting them into something potent seems like it would have a better chance than going dirt biking.

Sure, if your real motivation is to become a successful killing machine, or a cog in a gigantic killing machine. I thought you just wanted to be stronger and less of a "loser." Dirt bikes are just as well as that - as is remaining at home - because the only thing that matters here is you and your internal situation.

But I think you really should listen to some of these fellows here. This is a wrong decision to make!

At the very least, set some goals and conditions. Say, give yourself 18 months to change on your own. Try anything and everything. Don't expect anything overnight or easy. If by the end of that time you haven't done a damned thing whatsoever... then you should consider the military.

If this is true, I am thoroughly doomed.

My only hope is that, at least for me, it is possible for motivation to come at gun point.

I honestly believe this isn't your only hope. If you earnestly ask yourself "who am I?" and really persist at it, you will find a more meaningful motivation than having a gun pointed at you. That said, I'm not saying the route you favor will not work. Do your heart's bidding, even when it leads you on paths that timid souls would avoid. Taking in such experiences will help you find what you're looking for, but you also risk failure. Absolute failure, man. So what I guess I'm trying to get at is that you really gotta ask yourself if this is the only option you haven't explored.

Secondly, if someone shoots you if you quit, then you haven't actually stopped being a quitter. As soon as the threat of getting shot stops, you'll quit. What you actually want is something that changes you, and that doesn't have to be the military. In fact, that's a pretty crappy reason to join a military full stop.

That's a fairly good point, but my hope is that after being forced to continue for a while, the training will simply remove quitting from my arsenal of responses and replace it with other things, then when I leave the military, the "no quit" attitude will have gone from being external to internal, sort like a cognitive behavioural approach.


But if you really want a change of scenery, just join an overseas aid organisation as an on-the-ground volunteer. If you end up sitting in Darfur in the desert with starving people around you, just dropping everything and going back becomes a hell of a lot more complicated. Who knows, maybe you'll even find something you actually care about, and that's usually the safest way to prevent quitting. At the very least, you'll be helping rather than shooting people, which is a plus too.

This sounds like something to look into, but again, it needs to be a case where refusal to endure results in something horrible.

Seems like taking care of that anxiety would be an important first step, no matter what you end up doing. People might be depending on you in life-or-death situations in the military, yes? There's room for anxiety to seep in in any line of work, if you let it.

I understand the military somehow conditions one to function in high stress situations. This is a major part of the appeal.

Especially if I'm in a situation where, if I fuck up, I can die right next to the person I failed. (I'm sure not all situations allow for this parity of consequence, but the premise is demonstrative).

Let's be brutally honest here:
If you know you're a soft tub of lard and yet the only, single way towards self-improvement you can think of is to enrol into the military and have someone else yell at you to do a bit of exercise, then we can pretty much guarantee you're not going to last the distance.
If you can't motivate yourself to lay off the beer and burgers, get off the couch and get your flabby ass into a gym, then what makes you think having someone shouting at you is going to make a difference?

Motivation needs to be intrinsic to be effective and long-lasting.

The fact you state in your OP that you've tried lots of other things speaks volumes about your determination levels.

Yes it does - it continues your rut of starting something and quitting, you know what you need to do, you try something but you're already viewing it as a challenge, you're simply setting yourself up for defeat.

It's like quitting cigarettes, where people think the equivalent of 'I must deprive myself of something I enjoy' - well, you're going to fail to be honest.

Far better to look at what you would enjoy and don't look at the big picture, look at the small steps.

It may be really simple, it may be that you should go and watch an interesting film every Sunday evening. It's not so much the film as the sticking to going every Sunday evening - there's dual benefits in sticking to something that, frankly, is really easy and enjoyable, allowing you to start on the next improvement in your life as well as just naturally being of benefit.

It may be, I'll get up an hour early every day and take a walk in the park.

Starting to structure your life in this way helps you move onto the next structure - there's a balance at some point but I'm sure you'll find it.


This model seems very practical, but the moment that alarm goes off, I won't get up without somebody there to MAKE me get up. Even a little push, a small choice, requires some kind of element that is absent from me. Now, with somebody there to scream at me or shoot me in the back if I try to run away...

This sounds like something to look into, but again, it needs to be a case where refusal to endure results in something horrible.
People starving to death is pretty horrible.

Anyways, what you fail to realise is that fear of punishment as a negative incentive is just one side of the coin. It's also a pretty weak one, because as I said before if there is a chance of the punishment not appearing the incentive falls away.

Much better is a positive incentive, that is doing something because you want to do it. Your story just sounds like someone who never found what he wanted to do and doesn't have the self-respect to go out there and find it. Going to the military probably won't fix that because honestly, it takes a certain type of person to enjoy it and probability-wise, you're not it. All you'd do is delay finding what you actually want and wasting a few more years in the process.

Don't do it, that's my advice. Don't do something as a means to an end, do something for its own sake. Nobody on the internet can tell you what that something is, so I suggest you log off and go searching.

Google it. It's a personality thing from psychology. Entered into the popular discourse.

Ah, I googled it. You are kind to apply the term here, but my gifts are well short of what is described here.


Sure, if your real motivation is to become a successful killing machine, or a cog in a gigantic killing machine. I thought you just wanted to be stronger and less of a "loser." Dirt bikes are just as well as that - as is remaining at home - because the only thing that matters here is you and your internal situation.

But I think you really should listen to some of these fellows here. This is a wrong decision to make!

At the very least, set some goals and conditions. Say, give yourself 18 months to change on your own. Try anything and everything. Don't expect anything overnight or easy. If by the end of that time you haven't done a damned thing whatsoever... then you should consider the military.

To an extent, I've given myself time. I've been back from Japan for almost four years, and haven't really done a damn thing whatsoever.

However, since I am currently a living portrait of the sad cost of a sedentary lifestyle, I will need to train for some time before even applying. So, your suggestion can be implemented without any opportunity cost.

I honestly believe this isn't your only hope. If you earnestly ask yourself "who am I?" and really persist at it, you will find a more meaningful motivation than having a gun pointed at you. That said, I'm not saying the route you favor will not work. Do your heart's bidding, even when it leads you on paths that timid souls would avoid. Taking in such experiences will help you find what you're looking for, but you also risk failure. Absolute failure, man. So what I guess I'm trying to get at is that you really gotta ask yourself if this is the only option you haven't explored.

Your observation is prudent, and this thread has proposed a number of alternatives that at least merit further examination.

To be honest, though, the cold, sleepless, miserable, howling crucible of military training seems to fit the bill.

This model seems very practical, but the moment that alarm goes off, I won't get up without somebody there to MAKE me get up. Even a little push, a small choice, requires some kind of element that is absent from me. Now, with somebody there to scream at me or shoot me in the back if I try to run away...

Well then don't start with getting up in the morning, they're merely suggestions, you can choose what you would like to enjoy in life. The point is initiating structure. I wouldn't, however,make it something like 'reading a new book every month/week' - it should be something short and sweet.

As with others, certainly don't take Internet advice as gospel, what you probably need is someone to tell you truths that you know but don't want to hear.

On that note, you're simply making excuses for yourself, your conflict is in knowing you want to change but fearing the effort that entails. That's why I suggest creating that change through something you'd enjoy, to build structure without thinking that's what you're doing.

Ultimately, get some professional advice if you really think you've a problem, in life, there's only so much you can do on your own.

Let's be brutally honest here:
If you know you're a soft tub of lard and yet the only, single way towards self-improvement you can think of is to enrol into the military and have someone else yell at you to do a bit of exercise, then we can pretty much guarantee you're not going to last the distance.

If this is the case (and it may well be), I am totally boned. My best hope is that the military forces something into or tears something out of me that changes me fundamentally.


If you can't motivate yourself to lay off the beer and burgers, get off the couch and get your flabby ass into a gym, then what makes you think having someone shouting at you is going to make a difference?

Well, I hate to reduce myself to the most simple assemblage of responses, but I've seen laboratory conditions where behaviour can be altered through negative reinforcement. I'm hoping the screaming whoever will provide it.


Motivation needs to be intrinsic to be effective and long-lasting.


Then I am undone, utterly and without reprieve.

If this is the case (and it may well be), I am totally boned. My best hope is that the military forces something into or tears something out of me that changes me fundamentally.



Well, I hate to reduce myself to the most simple assemblage of responses, but I've seen laboratory conditions where behaviour can be altered through negative reinforcement. I'm hoping the screaming whoever will provide it.



Then I am undone, utterly and without reprieve.
oh well, that's that sorted then. my work here is done.

Still, even at your age, it's not too late to become an emo. You're already 1/2 way there: You've got the right attitude. Now just start wearing black, listen to Radiohead lots and cut yourself.

Don't do it, that's my advice. Don't do something as a means to an end, do something for its own sake. Nobody on the internet can tell you what that something is, so I suggest you log off and go searching.

Very Kantian, and probably consistent with any number of imperative models.

I spend about 5 hours a week online (not counting a few intervals here and there enjoying those sites dedicated to...um...celebrity imagery, we'll say).

While I have received a number of thoughtful and well reasoned responses here, I should point out that the final decision won't really be a result of NSG input.

To be quite honest, although the digital medium and its accompanying anonymity demand a definite and dutiful skepticism, I find that most on NSG provide as fecund a conversation as I would find IRL at Starbucks or the book store.

This thread is just one means of gathering a wide and hopefully multinational perspective. It is, naturally, mostly just to gather observations and will not weigh majoratively in my decision.

Ultimately, get some professional advice if you really think you've a problem, in life, there's only so much you can do on your own.

Sound counsel, I concede.

Unfortunately, I have "made the rounds" of the local professional community of this sort. They fine me, in turns, exhausting and interesting. Sadly, their ministrations are, as yet, unsuccessful.

*snip*

First, am I right in thinking it was your birthday last week? If so, Happy Birthday dude.

Then I am undone, utterly and without reprieve.

Bullshit - is there a rock on top of you? You just get up and do something, there's nothing actually stopping you aside from your excuses. You're excusing because you feel actually starting something, actually facing what you already know means a long journey of change, which you fear.

To be a little Sphinx-like - stop your fear or your fear will stop you.

*bows to Mystery Men*

It's bullshit that you can't, it's that you don't want to.

So, as I said, start with something you do want to...

oh well, that's that sorted then. my work here is done.

Still, even at your age, it's not too late to become an emo. You're already 1/2 way there: You've got the right attitude. Now just start wearing black, listen to Radiohead lots and cut yourself.

Heh, I wore a lot of black in high school...these days, my lady has prevailed upon me to tend towards alternating palettes of earth tones with greys and burgundy.

I find Radiohead uncompelling, but my tastes are hardly refined. As for cutting myself, I once worked with a research assistant who cut herself. I find the action bizarre, but likely no moreso than the desire to join the military.

As I recall, last I saw her, she was trying to join the Air Force, but was having difficulty because she was not menstruating yet was not pregnant. At least, that was her explanation.

Very eastern, heh.

Unfortunately, as well fed as I am, corpulent even, something in my mind will not permit me to be as I am.

Does BBC still do Red Dwarf? I loved Red Dwarf.

Don't think so. I only ever watch the realities anyway--You are What You Eat and Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares and the like. I have a weird thing for TV programs about food and especially about obesity.

Eastern... yes I have been meditating a lot lately on the changes in my life, my attachment to things and the anxiety it causes me. I'm also still a little stoned so I probably sound more zen than I am. ;) But it's something to explore, I think, your expectations for your life... if you're ever interested, this (http://www.buddhaweb.org/5.html) site is very simple and gives a lot to think about:

Things that slow us down and restrict our freedom

1. Self-delusion
2. Doubt
3. Clinging to Ritual
4. Sensuous Lust
5. Ill Will
6. Greed for Fine Material Existence
7. Greed for Immaterial Existence
8. Conceit
9. Restlessness
10. Ignorance

Very Kantian, and probably consistent with any number of imperative models.
Consider me quite offended.

The end is your enjoyment, but that's true regardless. But you wouldn't be joining the military because you think the military is where your calling is, but because you think it will somehow stop you from being a whiny quitter. Short of coincidentally finding out that being in the military is what you want to do for the rest of your life (and if that were the case I think you would have had the thought of joining earlier), it will not answer your real question, namely "What do I want to do?"

So why take the detour? If you find what you want, you won't feel a need for quitting and the military will not have helped you one bit. If you don't find it and for some inexplicable reason you feel compelled not to quit, you'll be doing something you don't want to do for a long time.

Now that would be Kantian.

First, am I right in thinking it was your birthday last week? If so, Happy Birthday dude.

No, you have me confused with someone else, but the sentiment is affable and kind, so have some cake.


Bullshit - is there a rock on top of you? You just get up and do something, there's nothing actually stopping you aside from your excuses. You're excusing because you feel actually starting something, actually facing what you already know means a long journey of change, which you fear.

To be a little Sphinx-like - stop your fear or your fear will stop you.

*bows to Mystery Men*

It's bullshit that you can't, it's that you don't want to.

So, as I said, start with something you do want to...

Hmm...if my unit's firearms are suddenly psychokinetically cut in half, I'll know who to blame...

That's the thing, I did try what I wanted to do. I tried to write, I was wretched at it. I tried business, found it boring.

I very, very much wanted to be a biochemist, and that B was shattering to me. My efforts in Physics were equally underwhelming.

All of these were things that I wanted to do, but I couldn't do them well. The only thing that I can bring myself to continue with, regardless of my utter lack of aptitude, is shooting pool. It relaxes and focuses me, but for practical reasons, its not really a profession.

My lady told me last night that she bought a pool table for me. I really don't deserve her.

Consider me quite offended.

My genuine apologies. It was my intent to compliment you by associating your view with famous and well regarded idealogies. I misunderstood and I'm sorry.


The end is your enjoyment, but that's true regardless. But you wouldn't be joining the military because you think the military is where your calling is, but because you think it will somehow stop you from being a whiny quitter. Short of coincidentally finding out that being in the military is what you want to do for the rest of your life (and if that were the case I think you would have had the thought of joining earlier), it will not answer your real question, namely "What do I want to do?"

So why take the detour? If you find what you want, you won't feel a need for quitting and the military will not have helped you one bit. If you don't find it and for some inexplicable reason you feel compelled not to quit, you'll be doing something you don't want to do for a long time.

Now that would be Kantian.

Sadly, I already know the answer to "What do I want to do", and the answer is "I have no talent for what I want to do".

Each iteration of the question and reaffirmation of the answer becomes progressively more difficult to experience.

Then I am undone, utterly and without reprieve.

Man, that just ain't true. You got so much accumulated ability instilled in you by generations of struggle by your ancestors. Study yourself. I'm serious, keep asking yourself, "Who am I?" Your subconscious mind will search for the answer if you would only task it to do so.

First, am I right in thinking it was your birthday last week? If so, Happy Birthday dude.
Yes it was, and thank you very much. I was in Margaret River, WA so it was a very pleasant day's outing. I found out the sky's actually a blue colour while I was there. Shocking I know, but true!

No, you have me confused with someone else, but the sentiment is affable and kind, so have some cake.
try to keep up. He was talking to me.

Don't think so. I only ever watch the realities anyway--You are What You Eat and Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares and the like. I have a weird thing for TV programs about food and especially about obesity.

Eastern... yes I have been meditating a lot lately on the changes in my life, my attachment to things and the anxiety it causes me. I'm also still a little stoned so I probably sound more zen than I am. ;) But it's something to explore, I think, your expectations for your life... if you're ever interested, this (http://www.buddhaweb.org/5.html) site is very simple and gives a lot to think about:

With few exceptions, the list you sent me reads like the ingredient list for the recipe of my life.

I've never been stoned. I have no moral compunction against it (unless you are driving or are on call for surgery or something), I just haven't tried it. Any involvement on the wrong end of the justice system would damage if not preclude my ability to pass the character and fitness criteria for the Bar.

No, you have me confused with someone else, but the sentiment is affable and kind, so have some cake.

*eats cake first*

Actually that was to DH but thanks for the cake.

Hmm...if my unit's firearms are suddenly psychokinetically cut in half, I'll know who to blame...

That's the thing, I did try what I wanted to do. I tried to write, I was wretched at it. I tried business, found it boring.

I very, very much wanted to be a biochemist, and that B was shattering to me. My efforts in Physics were equally underwhelming.

All of these were things that I wanted to do, but I couldn't do them well. The only thing that I can bring myself to continue with, regardless of my utter lack of aptitude, is shooting pool. It relaxes and focuses me, but for practical reasons, its not really a profession.

My lady told me last night that she bought a pool table for me. I really don't deserve her.

Amm...writing is like reading a book, so is a job, it's not a short and sweet thing that you start to do regularly.

As I've said, you should be building structure into your life - not where you need to, like going to work each day - just something you'd enjoy that you can do regularly.

Hence my initial suggestion of a trip to the cinema every Sunday evening, perhaps that's not the right thing for you but it's just something small, something enjoyable and something regular that you initiate off your own back.

Discuss it with your girlfriend, do it together, go hiking at the weekend, just do something that is a reward in itself.

Man, that just ain't true. You got so much accumulated ability instilled in you by generations of struggle by your ancestors. Study yourself. I'm serious, keep asking yourself, "Who am I?" Your subconscious mind will search for the answer if you would only task it to do so.

Is this akin to Shinto, or perhaps some ancestrally focused indiginous spiritual model?

Am I to ask the question itself, the phrase "Who am I" as a sort of mantra, or do you mean to be determined and relentless with introspection in general?

Sadly, I already know the answer to "What do I want to do", and the answer is "I have no talent for what I want to do".
So? Lack of talent shouldn't hold anyone back. In the entertainment industry, it never does.

I suppose the obvious question would be to ask you what "it" is, but you don't need me to suggest to you options to do "it" or otherwise be involved with "it" without talent X. You need to do that bit of thinking yourself.

Basically there are two levels of wanting something: there is simply saying that you want to do something, and then there is actually confirming and realising that want by taking action. If rejection is hard, it's your decision on whether or not to let it destroy your want.

Yes it was, and thank you very much. I was in Margaret River, WA so it was a very pleasant day's outing. I found out the sky's actually a blue colour while I was there. Shocking I know, but true!

Yeah, one can forget that living here.

...and NZ actually won a rugby competition over the weekend - what a year!

*Hence my initial suggestion of a trip to the cinema every Sunday evening, perhaps that's not the right thing for you but it's just something small, something enjoyable and something regular that you initiate off your own back.

Discuss it with your girlfriend, do it together, go hiking at the weekend, just do something that is a reward in itself.

Our taste in cinema are divergent, but we've enjoyed shooting pool together, and I asked her tonight if she would be interesting in taking French lessons with me. She seemed quite keen on it.

Also, for health reasons, we've decided to not eat out as much, and once we actually act on that policy, we'll likely cook and dine together.

I will say, these small joys, particularly the billiards, have kept me from being completely non-functional. Unfortunately, my inadequacies are screaming in my mind for most of the day now, and these little bullwarks of joy will not long stand against the inexorable rising of dark waters.

Yeah, one can forget that living here.

...and NZ actually won a rugby competition over the weekend - what a year!
I know! I think it was more out of pity over the WC than anything.

I also found out that sea water doesn't smell, you can see through it, fish live in it and Australians actually make excellent beer! Shocking I know, but it seems the only reason Fosters is everywhere in the world is because the Aussies themselves won't touch the shit.

So? Lack of talent shouldn't hold anyone back. In the entertainment industry, it never does.

I suppose the obvious question would be to ask you what "it" is, but you don't need me to suggest to you options to do "it" or otherwise be involved with "it" without talent X. You need to do that bit of thinking yourself.

Basically there are two levels of wanting something: there is simply saying that you want to do something, and then there is actually confirming and realising that want by taking action. If rejection is hard, it's your decision on whether or not to let it destroy your want.

Its not merely the rejection, its knowing that I don't "see" with the eyes of those who deserve to be in those roles.

Professors and research collaborators have been kind with their invitations, but how can I conscientiously accept a position when I know that there are uncounted others that would make better use of that opportunity?

With the exception of pool, which is a hobby rather than a profession, I simply see no point in doing something that I'm terrible at.

Yeah, one can forget that living here.

...and NZ actually won a rugby competition over the weekend - what a year!

In Japan, I had some roommates from New Zealand. One made his own silver jewelry, it actually was quite stylish.

Once, while drunk, he jumped on the hood of a moving taxi, but I'm sure not all Kiwis are like that.

Our taste in cinema are divergent, but we've enjoyed shooting pool together, and I asked her tonight if she would be interesting in taking French lessons with me. She seemed quite keen on it.

Also, for health reasons, we've decided to not eat out as much, and once we actually act on that policy, we'll likely cook and dine together.

I will say, these small joys, particularly the billiards, have kept me from being completely non-functional. Unfortunately, my inadequacies are screaming in my mind for most of the day now, and these little bullwarks of joy will not long stand against the inexorable rising of dark waters.

Absolutely, cook and eat, do French lessons, whatever it is.

Just do something.

Do it, do it, do it.

Don't focus on changing your entire life, don't gee yourself up and think 'right, I'm going to do something about this', just have a little think about something small you can do regularly and do it.

As much as doing nothing is a spiraling circle down, doing something is a spiraling circle up.

I would wonder the last time you went to a doctor by the way, it may be a health thing - you may be afraid of going to the doctor and hearing him tell you what you already know, that you're a tubby bastard.

As much as my advice is, a trip to a doctor may be in order regardless.

Professors and research collaborators have been kind with their invitations, but how can I conscientiously accept a position when I know that there are uncounted others that would make better use of that opportunity?
If it helps, become a solipsist. Or just stop thinking that you somehow have to carry the weight of the world on your shoulders. They'll all manage fine without you destroying your life without them even knowing (which, again, would be a very Kantian thing to do).

It seems you've wasted plenty of time already in the unrewarded and unrecognised service of the faceless and the unknown. Whatever debts you think you have with them are paid off. So now worry about yourself.

Oh, and do see a therapist again. Just seems to me like you're depressed.

Absolutely, cook and eat, do French lessons, whatever it is.

Just do something.

Do it, do it, do it.

Don't focus on changing your entire life, don't gee yourself up and think 'right, I'm going to do something about this', just have a little think about something small you can do regularly and do it.

As much as doing nothing is a spiraling circle down, doing something is a spiraling circle up.

I would wonder the last time you went to a doctor by the way, it may be a health thing but you may be afraid of going to the doctor and hearing him tell you what you already know, that you're a tubby bastard.

As much as my advice is, a trip to a doctor may be in order regardless.

The cooking particularly should help address the health issues.

As for the doctor, my general practitioner is a crabby little Hindu woman who perennially and quite sternly advises me that she is tired of warning me to lose weight.

Every yearly bloodwork, without fail, she tells me that I've avoided diabetes through nothing but luck.

I'm also told that starting next year, someone is going to need to stick a finger up my ass once a year.

If she loses a ring up there, she'd best consider it gone.

I know! I think it was more out of pity over the WC than anything.

I also found out that sea water doesn't smell, you can see through it, fish live in it and Australians actually make excellent beer! Shocking I know, but it seems the only reason Fosters is everywhere in the world is because the Aussies themselves won't touch the shit.

Alas my last trip out at Christmas was to England where I saw no difference aside from the fact that it was colder there.

I always enjoyed Tooheys in Oz, an aspect of living in Sydney I guess, I suppose if in WA there was a beer called, I think, Redback?

I've found VB here on tap as well.

In Japan, I had some roommates from New Zealand. One made his own silver jewelry, it actually was quite stylish.

Once, while drunk, he jumped on the hood of a moving taxi, but I'm sure not all Kiwis are like that.

Each and every one of them - they're like lemmings when it comes to taxis.

Is this akin to Shinto, or perhaps some ancestrally focused indiginous spiritual model?

Am I to ask the question itself, the phrase "Who am I" as a sort of mantra, or do you mean to be determined and relentless with introspection in general?

Yes, essentially it is introspection you're doing. All of the models you've mentioned are applicable, but ultimately the "Who am I?" process is what you take it to be. You follow your own path.

I've done some search queries to find something that may help you better understand what I'm trying to communicate. I think what's on here is pretty close to what I'm trying to advocate:

http://www.tamilnation.org/sathyam/east/ramana/ramana.htm

Don't get hanged up over the foreign, religious terminology, focus on the ideas and the step-by-step process that is outlined in there. It's weird, but essentially that is what you got to do. Intense self-reflection. Don't give in to the urge to just quit, because you won't find your answers.

If it helps, become a solipsist. Or just stop thinking that you somehow have to carry the weight of the world on your shoulders. They'll all manage fine without you destroying your life without them even knowing (which, again, would be a very Kantian thing to do).

It seems you've wasted plenty of time already in the unrewarded and unrecognised service of the faceless and the unknown. Whatever debts you think you have with them are paid off. So now worry about yourself.

Oh, and do see a therapist again. Just seems to me like you're depressed.

This is off topic, but every time I see the word "therapist", I think of that SNL skit with Sean Connery doing Jeapardy, and says "I'll take the rapists" for $400!

I don't feel I've paid my debt. I've never written anything that will contribute to the literature of our time or those to come. I've never developed a process that will preserve or protect human life. I've never discovered an effect that will allow for the efficient and cost effective capture, storage, and transfer of energy. And I've never been happy or made anyone else happy, not in any deep or lasting way.

I know this girl, she's 25, barmaid, hasn't done anything much, really, but she's happy. That's all she needs, and I have to respect that.

But for me...its just not enough unless I earn my place by accomplishing something worthwhile. And the grenade pin on the floor is this: I don't have the damn ability to do it.

Poop.

Yes, essentially it is introspection you're doing. All of the models you've mentioned are applicable, but ultimately the "Who am I?" process is what you take it to be. You follow your own path.

.

I'll check the link.

I hope it isn't the old "There is no past, there is no future" bit.

I get the idea, but I believe the past, at least as a concept, exists, and although I don't have to piss and whine about it, I think I can eventually somehow learn from it.

As for the future, for me, that is where hope lives, and I believe the future exists as an idea.


I've had people tell me "The greatest lesson in Zen is, there is no past, there is not future", and, while I respect the focus on the present, I'm not completely on board with it.

What you linked to might be different, though, and I'll scope it at some point.

This is off topic, but every time I see the word "therapist", I think of that SNL skit with Sean Connery doing Jeapardy, and says "I'll take the rapists" for $400!

I don't feel I've paid my debt. I've never written anything that will contribute to the literature of our time or those to come. I've never developed a process that will preserve or protect human life. I've never discovered an effect that will allow for the efficient and cost effective capture, storage, and transfer of energy. And I've never been happy or made anyone else happy, not in any deep or lasting way.

I know this girl, she's 25, barmaid, hasn't done anything much, really, but she's happy. That's all she needs, and I have to respect that.

But for me...its just not enough unless I earn my place by accomplishing something worthwhile. And the grenade pin on the floor is this: I don't have the damn ability to do it.

Poop.

The Skywalker Syndrome - the belief that you're meant to do something, be someone.

You ever see this before?

http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.wordpress.com/

It's a comedy list of things...ammm...stuff white people like.

The guy who wrote this, for kicks really, has just been given an advance fee to write a book - now maybe he can't write a great book, maybe, to the publisher, it doesn't matter as they can sell on the name already gained.

Point is, he didn't do much, he just did something, a list and look where it's got him.

99.9% of what we do goes nowhere, but if you do nothing, there's 0% chance of anything happening.

I always enjoyed Tooheys in Oz, an aspect of living in Sydney I guess, I suppose if in WA there was a beer called, I think, Redback?
That was okay, but what was fantastic was the number of local, independent breweries there. Fremantle (a suburb of Perth on the coast) had at least 4. One pub had chilli-infused beer, which was awesome downing after a hot day on the beach. Another had honey-infused beer which was rather dangerous as it didn't taste alcoholic at all. It was waayyyy too easy to down a six-pack in no time.
Margaret River has 119 wineries, 2 distilleries and 7 breweries. As well, 2 cheese makers. And a chocolate factory, toffee factory and fudge factory. Suffice to say, I loved it there.


And I'll have you know we don't all throw ourselves at taxis. Some of us also throw ourselves at boats, buses, trains...

Alas my last trip out at Christmas was to England where I saw no difference aside from the fact that it was colder there.

I always enjoyed Tooheys in Oz, an aspect of living in Sydney I guess, I suppose if in WA there was a beer called, I think, Redback?

I've found VB here on tap as well.



Each and every one of them - they're like lemmings when it comes to taxis.

Well, I need to hit the sack.

Thank all of you for considerate and articulate posts.

May all your taxis be unkiwied.

But for me...its just not enough unless I earn my place by accomplishing something worthwhile.
That's a normal human reaction.

And the grenade pin on the floor is this: I don't have the damn ability to do it.
That isn't. Or shouldn't be, anyways.

Writing a story is a subjective thing. In all likelihood there is a story that you can write that a publisher will like and put in a store for you. It's a matter of probability, if nothing else.

Anyways, realise that more rejections aren't actually any worse than not doing anything at all. And that's probably where I stop acting like I know what I'm talking about, instead referring you to someone who does.

Do that, man. Keep searching. You have nothing to lose by doing so. In the meantime, there are plenty of immediate, simple things that can help you prepare for the real work of self-analysis. Getting sleep. Exercise. Balanced diet and lifestyle. And try to keep the sum of your life in perspective. You claim to have failed in everything you've undertaken in life, but think about what over 90% of all people, alive and dead, have done with their lives. Much of it was devoted to sustaining themselves and providing the foundation for building a better future. You've done much with your life, man. I'm only 19. I can only hope in my 30s to have as much experience as you have.

Do that, man. Keep searching. You have nothing to lose by doing so. In the meantime, there are plenty of immediate, simple things that can help you prepare for the real work of self-analysis. Getting sleep. Exercise. Balanced diet and lifestyle. And try to keep the sum of your life in perspective. You claim to have failed in everything you've undertaken in life, but think about what over 90% of all people, alive and dead, have done with their lives. Much of it was devoted to sustaining themselves and providing the foundation for building a better future. You've done much with your life, man. I'm only 19. I can only hope in my 30s to have as much experience as you have.

You seem bright and thoughtful. I hope when you're my age, your record is bears far more completions than withdrawals.

Doesn't seem to me like your problem is lack of ability, more a lack of confidence and commitment.

At 17 I got a Board of Trustess Scholarship to a top engineering school.)

Got a business degree

Got a job as an organic chemistry lab assistant, tried to become a biochemist, got a B on an exam, quit.

I have to ask, a B is by no means a bad grade, why did you quit?

Got 97th percentile on the LSAT

There's some pretty decent achievements right there in a post where you put yourself down and your clearly havn't failed at everything because you have a degree, perhaps you simply havn't found what you enjoy yet.

Maybe you don't need to look at doing something big just yet, maybe you should concentrate on seeing something small through to the end and build from that point. As for motivation, use what you're feeling now and use it as a warning of what your life will be like if you don't follow things through. I know this worked for me after dropping out of university after only 2 days and spending the next year working in a series of crappy jobs. That's just my experience though and i'm only 21 so you probably know a lot more about it than me but I hope you will take the perspective into account.

Looks like i'm a little late to the thread, I wonder if anyone will even read this.

Well, I need to hit the sack.

Thank all of you for considerate and articulate posts.

May all your taxis be unkiwied.

having read through the thread i have decided that you are right, you should join the military. i recommend the marines.

before you do, watch the movie "stripes". you are the john candy character.

having read through the thread i have decided that you are right, you should join the military. i recommend the marines.

Seconded...

http://up7.vox.com/6a00d4142255cf3c7f00d09e562d52be2b-50si (http://www.marines.com/page/usmc.jsp?flashRedirect=true)

Seconded...

http://up7.vox.com/6a00d4142255cf3c7f00d09e562d52be2b-50si (http://www.marines.com/page/usmc.jsp?flashRedirect=true)

semper fi?

semper fi?

do or die!
Oooh Rah!

"Pain is just weakness leaving the body."

Assuming this pain is due directly to working out and not stemming from issues with your vital organs.

Coincidentally, there's a very similar question asked here (http://lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/privatelives/story/0,,2270330,00.html)

To which the expert replies...

In order to sort yourself out, you need first to define your problem. Then, because change is difficult, you need to motivate yourself to make the necessary adjustments to your life to get what you want professionally. Therefore, the next step is to imagine the advantages you would expect to enjoy once you have overcome your present difficulties.

You describe a number of frustrations - feeling directionless, miserable, anxious and being unable to remain interested in a job. You claim that you want to be successful; yet you also fear that if you were to gain the status and challenge you crave, your life would become dull and predictable. This ambivalence - wanting to overcome your problems but at the same time dreading what would happen if you actually did - blocks any way ahead. In truth, although it looks as if you have several different problems, they all stem from one main difficulty: your fear of committing yourself wholeheartedly to anyone or anything.

Examine this ambivalance carefully. Why do you believe it is so stifling - even frightening - to propose and stick with a direction in which you can channel your energy and passions

Her advice is to look into your past, I'd generally say that people in your position spend a lot of time self-analysing, know the truths but still fear doing something.

Hence, the idea to start doing something you'd enjoy on a regular basis.

I suppose the other thing to realise is that yours is not an unique problem, sometimes people feel they're the only one with this issue, when in fact millions go through these questions to varying degrees every day.

In some sense, you're lucky to have the luxury of moping around like this, take advantage of it and get busy living or get busy dying.

You seem bright and thoughtful. I hope when you're my age, your record is bears far more completions than withdrawals.

In this crazy world, I'd be happy if I even make it to your age. :D

You seem determined to make military service the answer to your discipline and self-esteem problems. I really, really think that's a terrible idea, but the obvious objections have been more or less covered by previous posters so I won't re-list them here.

Your best bet is probably to call the recruiting office of your choice -- with your age and physical condition I would assume that your best bet for enlistment (in the US, at least) is the army. Step one, it seems, would be to get some firm answers on whether they'll even take you and in what condition. (The military needs to meet its recruiting goals, but it also needs not to be substitute therapy for people with emotional issues.) The army will take guys up to age 50 or so -- if they're in fantastic shape and if they have previous military experience, so, not you. If you're not up to snuff now but could be in the future the recruiter should suggest what fitness goals you need to reach before you can enlist. You may get the opportunity to spend some time with some other pre-recruitees so you'll get a sense of the guys you'll be bunking with should you join.

My guess is that at some point you'll quit because you don't want to go through the hassle of getting in shape before joining, or because you can't stand your fellow potential soldiers, or because you don't get top marks in every category at boot camp and you decide that if you can't be the bestest soldier ever that it's not worth your time, or whatever self-negating rationalization you come up with to replace "not worth your time." And you'll look for some other, equally romantic fantasy of character rebirth.

But hey, maybe you'll really dig military life; I'm generally in favor of people trying new things. It does sound like you need to find something to do that makes you happy -- and not "I'll be really, really good at this and that will make me happy" but something that makes you happy whether you're stunningly successful or not. Maybe you'll find your zone while in uniform.

I probably sound pretty harsh, but it's because I recognize, or think I recognize, a fellow-traveler. I know the hardest thing to do when you're telling yourself these negative things to believe that you could be any other way. But you have to cajole, fool, or berate yourself into getting up in the morning and looking for something that makes you happy, because absolutely no-one else can do that for you. Try even a little bit and you'll find that good habits of mind are just that -- habits -- and you're probably as much a creature of habit as most people. Sit there and wallow in your hopelessness and you'll eventually annoy even yourself.

Doesn't seem to me like your problem is lack of ability, more a lack of confidence and commitment.

I have to ask, a B is by no means a bad grade, why did you quit?

A biochemist explores and develops the sciences that seek to protect human life (ideally, always a few bioweapons designers in the bunch, I'd guess). I figured if I wasn't the best, I didn't belong there.


There's some pretty decent achievements right there in a post where you put yourself down and your clearly havn't failed at everything because you have a degree, perhaps you simply havn't found what you enjoy yet.

Maybe you don't need to look at doing something big just yet, maybe you should concentrate on seeing something small through to the end and build from that point. As for motivation, use what you're feeling now and use it as a warning of what your life will be like if you don't follow things through. I know this worked for me after dropping out of university after only 2 days and spending the next year working in a series of crappy jobs. That's just my experience though and i'm only 21 so you probably know a lot more about it than me but I hope you will take the perspective into account.

Looks like i'm a little late to the thread, I wonder if anyone will even read this.

I read it, and your observation on motivation is definitely salient.

2 days? If its not too rude to ask, was there a bad experience involved, or some kind of academic culture shock?

having read through the thread i have decided that you are right, you should join the military. i recommend the marines.

before you do, watch the movie "stripes". you are the john candy character.

Favorite line from that film:

"I've noticed your always last, soldier."

"I'm pacing myself, sir."




Oh, man, I've got the wrong attitude already...

There is no meaning in life. If you join the military you can forget that for a while. Learn how to use a gun, then become a professional mercenary. Then write your autobiography titled NationStates Merc. Thus much boon will be bestowed upon site publicity. Your other option: Go-on to become an unmemorable pilgarlic.

Favorite line from that film:

"I've noticed your always last, soldier."

"I'm pacing myself, sir."




Oh, man, I've got the wrong attitude already...

lol

the marines will give you a new attitude--the marine attitude.

I suppose the other thing to realise is that yours is not an unique problem, sometimes people feel they're the only one with this issue, when in fact millions go through these questions to varying degrees every day.

This part does feel comforting.



In some sense, you're lucky to have the luxury of moping around like this, take advantage of it and get busy living or get busy dying.

Good advice, good film.

Hope I don't wind up in "Jacob's Ladder", though...

My guess is that at some point you'll quit because you don't want to go through the hassle of getting in shape before joining, or because you can't stand your fellow potential soldiers, or because you don't get top marks in every category at boot camp and you decide that if you can't be the bestest soldier ever that it's not worth your time, or whatever self-negating rationalization you come up with to replace "not worth your time." And you'll look for some other, equally romantic fantasy of character rebirth.

This is a definite, serious possibility.


But hey, maybe you'll really dig military life; I'm generally in favor of people trying new things. It does sound like you need to find something to do that makes you happy -- and not "I'll be really, really good at this and that will make me happy" but something that makes you happy whether you're stunningly successful or not. Maybe you'll find your zone while in uniform.

I probably sound pretty harsh, but it's because I recognize, or think I recognize, a fellow-traveler. I know the hardest thing to do when you're telling yourself these negative things to believe that you could be any other way. But you have to cajole, fool, or berate yourself into getting up in the morning and looking for something that makes you happy, because absolutely no-one else can do that for you. Try even a little bit and you'll find that good habits of mind are just that -- habits -- and you're probably as much a creature of habit as most people. Sit there and wallow in your hopelessness and you'll eventually annoy even yourself.

Truthfully, I'm approaching that state so fast, I'm having to model it relativistically.

This part does feel comforting.



Good advice, good film.

Hope I don't wind up in "Jacob's Ladder", though...

Originally Posted by Barringontia

Barringontia?

I actually quite like it.

Why torture yourself and possibly die? Do something you like. If you like it enough your passion for it will drive you to succeed. You could try outward bound, the peace corps, or something else. In case you don't know, outward bound will force you to get in shape, only they do it without tearing you down, and instead of killing people you do things that can actually be enjoyable like sailing and rock climbing.

Don't get me wrong, the military is important and I respect people who are willing to risk themselves for their country. However it's sad when somebody joins just because they had a low self image. You could emerge missing all your limbs and then your self image will be even worse.

There is no meaning in life. If you join the military you can forget that for a while. Learn how to use a gun, then become a professional mercenary. Then write your autobiography titled NationStates Merc. Thus much boon will be bestowed upon site publicity. Your other option: Go-on to become an unmemorable pilgarlic.

Chapter 1: Lunatic Goofballs and the Birth of the Shaped Charge Pie

Chapter 2: Anti-Personnel Mines, God's Little Moderators

Chapter 3: Cat-Tribes One Step Guide to Citing and Siting for Snipers

Chapter 4: Angry Religious Threads and Other Forcible Interrogation Methods

Chapter 5: Distinguishing French from French Canadians, A Field Guide

Chapter 6: Ad Hominem Attacks with Piano Wire

Originally Posted by Barringontia

Barringontia?

I actually quite like it.

Er.. sounds like an STD actually.

lol

the marines will give you a new attitude--the marine attitude.

Is that like the character Porter in "Payback"? He was written up as an ex-marine, and he seemed to be....well, not a quitter.

Originally Posted by Barringontia

Barringontia?

I actually quite like it.

My apologies...my coherence is in marked decline.

Next time, could be Tarringbonia. Again, sorry.

Is that like the character Porter in "Payback"? He was written up as an ex-marine, and he seemed to be....well, not a quitter.

uhhhhh maybe.

you didnt really get into law school did you?

Why torture yourself and possibly die? Do something you like. If you like it enough your passion for it will drive you to succeed. You could try outward bound, the peace corps, or something else. In case you don't know, outward bound will force you to get in shape, only they do it without tearing you down, and instead of killing people you do things that can actually be enjoyable like sailing and rock climbing.

Don't get me wrong, the military is important and I respect people who are willing to risk themselves for their country. However it's sad when somebody joins just because they had a low self image. You could emerge missing all your limbs and then your self image will be even worse.

Its the tearing down part I'm after. You make a number of very positive suggestions, but I'm afraid I need something intense to the point of life-threatening.

Er.. sounds like an STD actually.

Yes, yes it does.

*changes opinion*

uhhhhh maybe.

you didnt really get into law school did you?

Yep, accepted to a few.

My tepid UGPA (3.11) didn't help, but my LSAT of 169 saved me.

Yep, accepted to a few.

My tepid UGPA (3.11) didn't help, but my LSAT of 169 saved me.

law is a pretty high pressure profession. what kind of law are you interested in?

law is a pretty high pressure profession. what kind of law are you interested in?

I've been cautioned against making any specific decisions too early, but my personal inclinations would be towards either public criminal defense or constitutional and civil rights law.

Naturally, my accounting degree would be an asset if I choose tax law, but I have little enthusiasm remaining for the field.

Of course, getting into law school isn't the same as completing it, so I'm hesitant to assume too much.

I've been cautioned against making any specific decisions too early, but my personal inclinations would be towards either public criminal defense or constitutional and civil rights law.

Naturally, my accounting degree would be an asset if I choose tax law, but I have little enthusiasm remaining for the field.

Of course, getting into law school isn't the same as completing it, so I'm hesitant to assume too much.

yeah but the classes should be pretty interesting at least

more interesting than working in tax law. unless you become one of those kick ass tax law litigators.

yeah but the classes should be pretty interesting at least

more interesting than working in tax law. unless you become one of those kick ass tax law litigators.

You may be right. I'm told that even something as ostensibly "dry" as contract law can have tremendous depth and complexity.

My first choice school has a reasonably well regarded legal clinic program where students get to assist licensed attorneys working on five specialty areas, including capital defense.

That would be high stress...

You may be right. I'm told that even something as ostensibly "dry" as contract law can have tremendous depth and complexity.

My first choice school has a reasonably well regarded legal clinic program where students get to assist licensed attorneys working on five specialty areas, including capital defense.

That would be high stress...

yeah it would. but it would be good experience.

how about entertainment law? that might be interesting

ROFL

Hard.

Its the tearing down part I'm after. You make a number of very positive suggestions, but I'm afraid I need something intense to the point of life-threatening.I have to wonder why you're saying this. If you have such a weak will that you need someone to threaten your life in order to get in shape, than you don't sound like you're cut out for the military. It could destroy you. I'm not an doctor or anything but there are many people who become total lunatics after going to war.

By the way I'm not saying you shouldn't join the military. I don't really know the answer to that question. I just don't get why you think you need to be torn down, and why being torn down is less scary to you than all of the other options.

I have to wonder why you're saying this. If you have such a weak will that you need someone to threaten your life in order to get in shape, than you don't sound like you're cut out for the military. It could destroy you. I'm not an doctor or anything but there are many people who become total lunatics after going to war.

By the way I'm not saying you shouldn't join the military. I don't really know the answer to that question. I just don't get why you think you need to be torn down, and why being torn down is less scary to you than all of the other options.

My hope (possibly thin, but there) is that they rebuild me into something that isn't weak willed. Trauma is very possible, and I don't doubt that better people than me have been damaged or destroyed in war.

I need to be torn down because I am currently grotesquely inadequate. Its not less scary, it may be even more so, but the military hopefully has the methodology and trained professionals to arrange for my "rebirth".

ROFL

Hard.

I'm sorry, I meant to say "born again turgid and glistening."

yeah it would. but it would be good experience.

how about entertainment law? that might be interesting

Very much so. I used to know an entertainment attorney, he also did a lot of trade/patent.

Hello, all. I arrive terribly late to this party, annoyed, and in a mood to tear someone down, so...

What nonsense. Really, Jhahannam, you are too smart for this.

<snip>

I should confess that I've been a failure the entirety of my adult life.

<snip>
Unless you are posting from beyond the grave, the above statement is inaccurate because you have not seen the entirety of your adult life yet.

What you mean is that you have failed at the things you have tried so far. However, judging by what you wrote elsewhere in the thread, you seem to define "failure" as not gaining full success immediately or in a very short time, which is, frankly, a ridiculously unrealistic (and arguably egotistical) standard.

I'm weak in almost every respect. Physically, obviously, but also mentally. I quit, everything. Early and often.

At 17 I got a Board of Trustess Scholarship to a top engineering school. Didn't go to class, didn't read, dropped almost every class, flunked out in a year.

Tried to make it as a writer, got my name on a couple books in "special thanks", but after 6 weeks, couldn't get published, so I bailed. Worked in retail, quitting every job after a few months.

Got a business degree, went to be an accountant, hated it, quit after six months.

Became a teacher in Japan, came home after six months. Got a job as an organic chemistry lab assistant, tried to become a biochemist, got a B on an exam, quit.

Went to work in physics, only published as co-author on one paper, spent 3 hours trying to figure out Planck's early work in quantum mechanics, couldn't get it, quit.

Now, Law School. Got 97th percentile on the LSAT, but my shitty UGPA (3.11) will keep me out of the best schools. Probably won't be any good at it anyway.
I feel inclined to engrave the above resume onto a baseball bat and beat you with it for being ungrateful for the excellent experiences life has given you so far. But I realize that's because I used to be you, and I pissed me off then, so I guess that's why this is pissing me off a bit now. So, since I neither can nor should beat you up with your own life story, I will punish you with mine instead:

I've farted around in my life too, taking one wrong direction after another, quitting thing after thing. Getting nothing done for over two decades. I went through two massive periods of profound depression and anxiety because I just felt that my life was going nowhere and I had no control over it, no power to change it, that my life was pointless and not worth the effort, and that it probably was that way because there was something horribly wrong with me as a person. One of those periods was in my mid-20s and the other was ten years later, in my mid-30s -- right where you are now.

Now it's another ten years later, and goddammit if things have not changed radically. Am I now sitting on top of a mountain of finished accomplishments that I can look back on with smug satisfaction as all around me recognize my perfection and give me credit for it? No. In terms of finished work products I have precious little more than I did ten years ago, and not much more money, either.

What I do have that I didn't have then is perspective. I understand now why things weren't working then, an understanding I couldn't have gotten while I was in the weeds struggling with it. I also have a more realistic concept of what "success" means -- no pie-in-the-sky dreams of fame and fortune in 6 weeks, or of miraculous ultimate make-overs with guns. Rather I now define "success" as doing what I want to be doing, not finishing doing it. I am what I have always wanted to be -- an artist -- not because I have a big list of works in museums. No, I have succeeded in becoming an artist because I have managed to structure my entire life around doing art. Most of it pays hardly anything, I have to keep looking for day jobs, I have no savings, etc. But what I do have is an artist's life -- an apartment with a separate studio room and rent that hasn't been raised in 7 years, 3-4 exhibitions a year, 2 positive reviews in the Boston Globe, a growing fan club, and I just finished curating a show that was a major success, as art shows go, and have been invited to curate more at that gallery if I want to.

What was the breakthrough? Attitude adjustment via a slow natural process of experience and growing the fuck up.

See, I slogged through enough life-weeds to get some mental distance from it, and I realized that there were two reasons why I kept quitting and failing at everything I did before. The first was that I didn't really want the things I was working for back then. At the time, I berated myself as a quitter with no discipline. Now I look back and realize what terrible mistakes those career/life choices would have been for me. I realize that the only reason I took this or that job or tried this or that project was because other people (friends, family, experts) said they would be good for me, but personally, in my own mind, they meant nothing to me. I did not want them, but I lacked the confidence to turn down the offers/encouragement, so instead I did as others advised and failed at it miserably -- a passive-aggressive and, thus, unhappy way to live.

The second reason was that I just wasn't ready ten years ago. My work then was not a tenth of the quality it is now, not worthy of recognition. But now, frankly, if I do say so myself, it is mature, it is worth looking at -- and lo and behold, like magic, it gets looked at. The universe provided, and all came to pass in its proper time, just like they say in various philosophies.

I look back now, and I can see very clearly how all those failed attempts and false starts and changed directions led me precisely to where I am now, which is where I am happy. Happiness = success, so no matter how not-fun those years were for me, I wouldn't want to change a minute of them. I could not have gotten here or become what I am by any other route. So, even though I have not a single happy memory of them, I cannot regret those wasted years. It turns out they weren't wasted. They were necessary and productive life lessons and testing periods.

So the point is, do not blame yourself for quitting things or failing at things. It is likely that they were things you did not want to be doing with your life anyway. Even if you don't have an idea of what you do want to do, the fact that none of those things clicked with you indicates that they were not it or that you were not ready for them then, because if it was something you really wanted and you were ready to do it, quitting would never have entered your mind.

Oh, and before you start crying about how you're already 35 and old and whatnot, remember that I was exactly where you are now when I was 35. And I got criticized by people around me as a slacker who would never amount to anything if I hadn't already by that age. And ten years later, those people are silently fuming because I'm curating shows and getting mentions in major papers, while they are slogging away miserably at jobs they really really hate but seriously applied themselves to with discipline and responsibility.

So the magic attitude adjustment I made was this: I stopped thinking that quitting = failure. Instead, I started thinking that doing the wrong thing with one's short, precious life = failure.

I figure in the service, a) they shoot you if you run and b) they totally break you down and rebuild you (allegedly).
I think what they actually do is take turns boring you and stressing you out. They don't break you down by extreme training. They just wear you down by Kafkaesque bureaucratic bullshit. They don't rebuild you. They just keep grinding you down. And if you run, they don't shoot you. They just make some half-hearted attempts to arrest you. If they catch you, they shove you into the military justice system and forget about you. If they don't catch you after a while, they just slap some negative paperwork on you which will haunt you like a small semi-chronic boil on your ass for the rest of your life, every time you apply for a job, etc. And then they forget about you.

<snip>

This sounds like something to look into, but again, it needs to be a case where refusal to endure results in something horrible.
Nothing easier. Just go for a long walk in Death Valley in summer or the Rocky Mountains in winter. Don't tell anyone where you are going. Trust me, in THOSE scenarios, if you do not endure, you will die. Guaranteed. No other options.

Chapter 1: Lunatic Goofballs and the Birth of the Shaped Charge Pie

Chapter 2: Anti-Personnel Mines, God's Little Moderators

Chapter 3: Cat-Tribes One Step Guide to Citing and Siting for Snipers

Chapter 4: Angry Religious Threads and Other Forcible Interrogation Methods

Chapter 5: Distinguishing French from French Canadians, A Field Guide

Chapter 6: Ad Hominem Attacks with Piano Wire
*throws shoe at Jhahannam* Idiot!

Don't you realize you just composed a magic money machine that would take virtually no effort at all to exploit? BAH! If you lack the vision to see the potential of your own material, I should just steal it from you and use it myself.

Its the tearing down part I'm after.
Just hire a dominatrix already.

CLOSING THOUGHT: By coincidence, before I read this thread, my mom mentioned to me a quote from Artur Rubenstein, the legendary pianist, that she saw mentioned on a television show this very night. It went something like this:

"The key to success is an unquestioning acceptance of whatever life brings you."

Think about it.

My hope (possibly thin, but there) is that they rebuild me into something that isn't weak willed. Trauma is very possible, and I don't doubt that better people than me have been damaged or destroyed in war.

I need to be torn down because I am currently grotesquely inadequate. Its not less scary, it may be even more so, but the military hopefully has the methodology and trained professionals to arrange for my "rebirth".

Your plan depends on the military caring about your well being. They may not care enough to arrange anything that serves your own needs instead of theirs. People who come out better from conflict, instead of worse, are usually people who were self sufficient to begin with. If you're already so inadequate and you have so little faith in your own ability to do anything unless you fear for your life, there's nothing to tear down. I'm assuming you're not some kind of ex-con or drug addict. I doubt there's anything in you that needs to be reformed. You're just a person who trusts the military with your apparently weak personality more than you trust yourself.

I've never joined the military, but I know people who have done it, and I can also speak from just general experience of being told to do pointless things. People don't get strength from following orders that don't suit their own needs in any way. If you're ordered to lie in the snow for 3 days without sleeping, without being given any food, I don't think that's going to benefit you much unless you actually care about whatever reason they gave you for making you lie in the snow (if they give you a reason at all). Yes, you will have to follow orders or go to jail, and you may improve your tolerance for pain, but that doesn't mean your personality will necessarily improve at all. If you get too used to following orders it could ruin your will power and sense of self.

So Muravyets, can I see your website? I am an art student.

So Muravyets, can I see your website? I am an art student.
I'll TG it to you in a minute or two.

I should confess that I've been a failure the entirety of my adult life.

Dammit, i have to be distracted with real life for a while, and THIS is what happens?

While i'm not one for magnificent ideas i think i have an ordinary one.
Start at the basic things you enjoy, then find ways to find more enjoyment of those things.
As for health, well i suppose a good diet and fun exercise is a good way to help that. No need to go to the extreme of military punishment, martial arts could be interesting.
Or if you're really bored you could go and paint the whitehouse Red, that would be most fun and memorable, and if you get away with it, all the better. Actually no don't do that, that's my aim but something along those lines.

Dammit, i have to be distracted with real life for a while, and THIS is what happens?

its only going to get worse as your life gets more and more busy. get used to it.

Wow, it looks like J-dude is feeling exactly what I've been feeling for the past decade. But like Muravyets, I'm finding that the problem isn't with motivation or discipline so much as my ingrained expectations of what life should be.

You sound like a reasonably smart guy, Jhahannam, but you don't think so because you're smart. Maybe people always saw your intelligence and would tell you what great things you could and should accomplish, leading you to have unrealistic expectations of how beneficial your life should be to the world at large. Now it sounds like you have a short list of careers that would make your life beneficial to humanity with the rest being by default unbeneficial and therefore incorrect choices. But like others have said, you're not gonna be able to continue with any of your "correct" careers if they're not for you.

What it looks like you've done is exclude a whole world of possibilities just because it doesn't fit into some imaginary ideal for how your life should end up. And it IS imaginary. Here's why: we don't have the level of control over our lives that would be necessary to ensure success with the narrow level of possibilities your worldview allows you. People lie when they say success is all about perseverance. It's also about coming across the right people and ideas at the right time to inspire you. It's also about coming across the right people at the right time to accept and run with whatever contribution you've come up with. In other words, luck. When you have such strict ideas about how your life should be, it's hard to be flexible enough to deal with the situations that reality throws at you, stuff no one can predict.

It's also about being the right person yourself. You're not the right person for something just because your assumptions demand that you be, no matter how deeply ingrained they are. Stop questioning yourself and start questioning your assumptions about how you should live your life. Let go of this idea that you have to do something amazing with yourself. If you're anything like me, it's part of why you keep quitting. You want to be a genius in any field you enter (fields inspired by faulty assumptions you probably shouldn't be entering anyway) and then run away when you find out you can't be. You know not everyone in a field is a genius, right? If they were, there wouldn't be any geniuses. Learn to be happy with just not sucking. It sounds like when you did do things you didn't suck at them. Maybe you weren't getting A++++++'s, but you didn't suck. Lay off yourself, man. Your overly-high expectations of yourself are what's paradoxically keeping you from doing anything with your life.

Basically, you have to get over your messianic delusions of your life "meaning" something. It won't mean anything until you do.

But I think I know what it's like to be you. You may already be at the stage where this military thing has become an obsession that won't leave your head until you actually try it. So then give it a shot. When that turns out not to work, remember what Muravyets said.

My hope (possibly thin, but there) is that they rebuild me into something that isn't weak willed. Trauma is very possible, and I don't doubt that better people than me have been damaged or destroyed in war.

I need to be torn down because I am currently grotesquely inadequate. Its not less scary, it may be even more so, but the military hopefully has the methodology and trained professionals to arrange for my "rebirth".
Just click on the symbol :D
Click this >http://up7.vox.com/6a00d4142255cf3c7f00d09e562d52be2b-50si (http://www.marines.com/page/usmc.jsp?flashRedirect=true)<click this

A biochemist explores and develops the sciences that seek to protect human life (ideally, always a few bioweapons designers in the bunch, I'd guess). I figured if I wasn't the best, I didn't belong there.

I can guarantee you that there are top class researchers who have got Bs at some point. It's not about the first grade you get, it's about how you respond to a grade you don't think is good enough.

2 days? If its not too rude to ask, was there a bad experience involved, or some kind of academic culture shock?

To be honest it was more of a social culture shock, at 18 I couldn't deal with being so far away from home with people I didn't know at all. Yes there was a minor bad experience but it was a crippling lack of self confidence which made it worse (similar to what you seem to have). I didn't even get to the academic part. That's not really the relevant part though, finding out what my life would likely be like if I didn't get a degree was what forced me to go back the next year.

*snipped good read* So the magic attitude adjustment I made was this: I stopped thinking that quitting = failure. Instead, I started thinking that doing the wrong thing with one's short, precious life = failure.

I read the snipped part twice, its definitely a fine parallel. I left this last part because it does console me a bit.


I think what they actually do is take turns boring you and stressing you out. They don't break you down by extreme training. They just wear you down by Kafkaesque bureaucratic bullshit. They don't rebuild you. They just keep grinding you down. And if you run, they don't shoot you. They just make some half-hearted attempts to arrest you. If they catch you, they shove you into the military justice system and forget about you. If they don't catch you after a while, they just slap some negative paperwork on you which will haunt you like a small semi-chronic boil on your ass for the rest of your life, every time you apply for a job, etc. And then they forget about you.

This view seems to have many data points in its favor. I'm hearing from relatively few people who say "Oh, yeah, I was a lump of shit, and the military reforged me into carbon steel". I see a lot of commercials with very fine morphing graphics that pitch the promise, but all that proves is that the military can write a check to an ad agency...


CLOSING THOUGHT:[/b] By coincidence, before I read this thread, my mom mentioned to me a quote from Artur Rubenstein, the legendary pianist, that she saw mentioned on a television show this very night. It went something like this:

"The key to success is an unquestioning acceptance of whatever life brings you."

Think about it.

I don't know if this mentality would make me happy, but it would certainly make me invulernable to discontent...actually, that's a fairly fine flavor of happy, I suppose.

Unfortunately, even governing one's own attitudes is a form of discipline...hopefully my coming experiences will send me in the direction you were able to find.

I envy artists a great deal, as even their suffering yields fruit, that while bitter in its moment of birth, brings sustenance and sweetness for centuries.

Your plan depends on the military caring about your well being. They may not care enough to arrange anything that serves your own needs instead of theirs. People who come out better from conflict, instead of worse, are usually people who were self sufficient to begin with. If you're already so inadequate and you have so little faith in your own ability to do anything unless you fear for your life, there's nothing to tear down. I'm assuming you're not some kind of ex-con or drug addict. I doubt there's anything in you that needs to be reformed. You're just a person who trusts the military with your apparently weak personality more than you trust yourself.

I've never joined the military, but I know people who have done it, and I can also speak from just general experience of being told to do pointless things. People don't get strength from following orders that don't suit their own needs in any way. If you're ordered to lie in the snow for 3 days without sleeping, without being given any food, I don't think that's going to benefit you much unless you actually care about whatever reason they gave you for making you lie in the snow (if they give you a reason at all). Yes, you will have to follow orders or go to jail, and you may improve your tolerance for pain, but that doesn't mean your personality will necessarily improve at all. If you get too used to following orders it could ruin your will power and sense of self.

The pain tolerance part would be helpful. Is there actually a unit whose training involves laying in the snow for 3 days without food? (Bear in mind, it wouldn't surprise me if there is such a group, even if you were just using an illustrative example).

Dammit, i have to be distracted with real life for a while, and THIS is what happens?

Don't worry, Straughn, this doesn't effect you.

The fact that I am merely a benign cluster of neurons in asymmetric growth in your left front lobe became depressing, so I accessed your capacity for creative thought and invented an entire history for myself, but I did a rather shoddy job and now I can't cope with said history.

If I do enter the service, I will transfer my sentience out of your body into a suitable host, first.

You don't mind tongue kissing a bum for 42 minutes, do you?

That was an example of the kind of stuff people have to do in war.

I don't know much about training, but I've heard of something called ranger's school. Apparently for 3 months you walk around in the woods, eat 1 meal a day, sleep for 3 hours per night, and you don't have any shelter. Sounds like torture.

While i'm not one for magnificent ideas i think i have an ordinary one.
Start at the basic things you enjoy, then find ways to find more enjoyment of those things.
As for health, well i suppose a good diet and fun exercise is a good way to help that. No need to go to the extreme of military punishment, martial arts could be interesting.
Or if you're really bored you could go and paint the whitehouse Red, that would be most fun and memorable, and if you get away with it, all the better. Actually no don't do that, that's my aim but something along those lines.

Its not a bad idea, and the thing I enjoyed wound up being Pool (and occasional time on Nationstates), but these were, in the end, mere distractions. The bulk of my life is still unacceptable. I haven't the focus or determination for excercise (I have a gym membership, a kind gift from my lady).

Red? Not orange?

i think what would really help you, that is if you really feel the need to change, would either be a psychologist... or even better.. and unfortunately more expensive, would be a personal trainer, a dude or a chick that could get into your head, and force your self confidence forth, from what i understand your major gripe with yourself is not that you cant be like john rambo, but that you lack will power, and you seem to intelligent to draw that out from some cult or religion, so my guess is that you might need to hire someone to take over your mind a bit, like you wrote earlier that you want to be re-built or re-programmed or something in that direction

What it looks like you've done is exclude a whole world of possibilities just because it doesn't fit into some imaginary ideal for how your life should end up. And it IS imaginary. Here's why: we don't have the level of control over our lives that would be necessary to ensure success with the narrow level of possibilities your worldview allows you. People lie when they say success is all about perseverance. It's also about coming across the right people and ideas at the right time to inspire you. It's also about coming across the right people at the right time to accept and run with whatever contribution you've come up with. In other words, luck. When you have such strict ideas about how your life should be, it's hard to be flexible enough to deal with the situations that reality throws at you, stuff no one can predict.

The whole post had insight, but I quoted the parts that are especially close to me.

The sad part is, I haven't been all that unlucky. WHen I was younger, my sister was dating this guy at While Wolf Publishing, and he got me an office job there. For six weeks before getting laid off with 10% of the company, I had the attention of what I felt were some good writers...couldn't get anything to go. Maybe writing wasn't the "right" thing for me, but I really loved doing it.

Same thing with physics...after seeing some of my work, I was invited to do research at Argonne National Laboratory, then to train at Los Alamos...I've been given all the opportunities that fortune could really offer. It might not have been the right thing either, but I found the material very compelling.


It's also about being the right person yourself. You're not the right person for something just because your assumptions demand that you be, no matter how deeply ingrained they are. Stop questioning yourself and start questioning your assumptions about how you should live your life. Let go of this idea that you have to do something amazing with yourself. If you're anything like me, it's part of why you keep quitting. You want to be a genius in any field you enter (fields inspired by faulty assumptions you probably shouldn't be entering anyway) and then run away when you find out you can't be. You know not everyone in a field is a genius, right? If they were, there wouldn't be any geniuses. Learn to be happy with just not sucking. It sounds like when you did do things you didn't suck at them. Maybe you weren't getting A++++++'s, but you didn't suck. Lay off yourself, man. Your overly-high expectations of yourself are what's paradoxically keeping you from doing anything with your life.

Basically, you have to get over your messianic delusions of your life "meaning" something. It won't mean anything until you do.

But I think I know what it's like to be you. You may already be at the stage where this military thing has become an obsession that won't leave your head until you actually try it. So then give it a shot. When that turns out not to work, remember what Muravyets said.

The bolded part strikes me as very powerful. But the underlined part, sadly, is so etched into the very architecture of how I think, I'm not sure I'll ever surrender it.

I just can't live with being mediocre at something, but to date, I don't seem exceptional at anything. While it would be very useful to surrender the belief that I have to be a "genius" at whatever my life's work is, I simply can't.

Your description of the problem is devastatingly lucid. Unfortunately, my self-sabotaging assumptions somehow stand unscathed by their exposure.



They lied to me. All of them. They told me, from the time I could speak, that I was "gifted". They ran their asinine little standardized tests, they labeled some of us this and others that.

They told me that I was one of the chosen, that I would do great things.

They fucking lied to me.

That was an example of the kind of stuff people have to do in war.

I don't know much about training, but I've heard of something called ranger's school. Apparently for 3 months you walk around in the woods, eat 1 meal a day, sleep for 3 hours per night, and you don't have any shelter. Sounds like torture.

Definitely...but a man/woman who could come out of that smilling and relaxed would be hard to stress out.

i think what would really help you, that is if you really feel the need to change, would either be a psychologist... or even better.. and unfortunately more expensive, would be a personal trainer, a dude or a chick that could get into your head, and force your self confidence forth, from what i understand your major gripe with yourself is not that you cant be like john rambo, but that you lack will power, and you seem to intelligent to draw that out from some cult or religion, so my guess is that you might need to hire someone to take over your mind a bit, like you wrote earlier that you want to be re-built or re-programmed or something in that direction

I've tried quite a few therapists, from both the psychiatric and psychological camps. No luck so far.

A personal athletic trainer? I think cost constraints wouldn't allow for the kind of 24 hour brutal regimen I think I need.

In fact, from what I'm told, personal trainers have liability issues regarding the kinds of methods they can use, to avoid injury and such.

Still, any suggestion is something to think about.

the expenses really is the problem, still i think that someone pushing you, one on one, is going to help more than being pushed in a squad, thats being trained to do the same, bear in my mind i have not tried military training myself so i cannot give you any accurate advice on that....there is of course the cheaper but more damaging way, if you like to get shit faced, and you know other guys that like doing the same you could start a drinking club where they aim is to be the best drinker and have fun at the same time, although this might not work for you, and might make your life style a bit hazardous... anyway i think you need some competition or challenge, then again im no psycho-anything, and you could end feeling worse by challenging yourself to do uncomfortable things, but the main point is for you to get the feeling that you have done something that very few have done, and that something you did was pretty damn cool:cool:

They lied to me. All of them. They told me, from the time I could speak, that I was "gifted". They ran their asinine little standardized tests, they labeled some of us this and others that.

They told me that I was one of the chosen, that I would do great things.

They fucking lied to me.Calm down. Unfortunately it's not unusual for people highly intelligent people to feel out of place and never accomplish much. The smarter you are, the more prone you are to boredom. But if you can find something that doesn't bore you, you can still accomplish things.

You really should forget whatever it is you were told to do as a child. Those people don't know what's best for you. Successful people are self driven. Becoming mentally self reliant is a risk though, that's why most people don't it.

Calm down. Unfortunately it's not unusual for people highly intelligent people to feel out of place and never accomplish much. The smarter you are, the more prone you are to boredom. But if you can find something that doesn't bore you, you can still accomplish things.


I would like to think this had been my problem. Unfortunately, the indicators that I was "intelligent" were in error, as demonstrated by the much larger sample interval of my adult life to date.

The fact is, any assessment model will have its false positives. Maybe you're right, I should calm myself...on reflection, all those people who "lied" to me simply fell victim to the same erroneous results. But it still burns.


You really should forget whatever it is you were told to do as a child. Those people don't know what's best for you. Successful people are self driven. Becoming mentally self reliant is a risk though, that's why most people don't it.

There does seem to be ample examples of people succeeding through inexorable determination as much as any inherent aptitude.

I presently have neither.


I just tried to go to the gym. I spent the whole time internally arguing with imaginary people who were telling me my fitness method was wrong. Unlike you folks, who have consistently offered thoughtful, reasonable, well supported suggestions, these people just argue with me.

I try to respect their opinion, but they won't let up, and the imaginary argument becomes so distracting, I can't focus.

It became so painful, I left the gym.

That's part of why I like Nationstates. Even though its obviously no substitute for a real life peer group (who don't really act like the imaginary adversaries, either) I have found that, albeit the occasional troll pipes up, you people (on this thread in particular) offer original yet fundamentally sound and well-articulated advice.

Shit, I hope I'm never ordered to particpate in the wrongful invasion of any of your countries...

jhahannam, is any of this true?

jhahannam, is any of this true?

That's a fair question, given that in other threads, I've been a little satirical.

But yes, what I've said on this thread is all true. I have no means of proving it.

EDIT: If there is some means by which you feel I can offer some credibility as to any of my claims, I will try to comply to the extent it doesn't endanger my personal privacy.

I've seen you on the boards long enough to know you aren't some troll, either, so if you want to privately TG me some request for information, that would also be reasonable.

That's a fair question, given that in other threads, I've been a little satirical.

But yes, what I've said on this thread is all true. I have no means of proving it.

EDIT: If there is some means by which you feel I can offer some credibility as to any of my claims, I will try to comply to the extent it doesn't endanger my personal privacy.

I've seen you on the boards long enough to know you aren't some troll, either, so if you want to privately TG me some request for information, that would also be reasonable.

im fine with your answer. i have no reason to think that you would lie to such a straight question.

i was concerned because of your history (and straughn's post) that you had crossed the line into having people be worried about you when you were not being truthful.

im glad that thats not the case.

dont join the military. there may be years where its a good idea but its never a good idea when the decision can lead you to a war zone.

im fine with your answer. i have no reason to think that you would lie to such a straight question.

i was concerned because of your history (and straughn's post) that you had crossed the line into having people be worried about you when you were not being truthful.

im glad that thats not the case.

dont join the military. there may be years where its a good idea but its never a good idea when the decision can lead you to a war zone.

He could still join the Coast Guard ;) That's sort of military and no war zones :D

im fine with your answer. i have no reason to think that you would lie to such a straight question.

i was concerned because of your history (and straughn's post) that you had crossed the line into having people be worried about you when you were not being truthful.

im glad that thats not the case.

dont join the military. there may be years where its a good idea but its never a good idea when the decision can lead you to a war zone.

Well, one of the insulations provided by the internet is that, with anonymity, none of you really have to feel responsible for the outcome here. (That said, I stand by my statement that everyone's input has been both patient and useful.)

My own real life friends have expressed concern, and they are unanimous in their dislike for the military option. The general consensus among my IRL circle of comrades is that I will not likely satisfy the fitness standards for enlisment in anything other than the Reserve Coast Guard of Pacifistia.

I've been looking more into the French Foreign Legion...I'm sure they have their own perils (to spare), but at least I wouldn't be in the middle of Iran in 2010.

He could still join the Coast Guard ;) That's sort of military and no war zones :D

Heh, we crossed posts, some of my friends were thinking the same thing.

I'm not sure how "born again hard" I can be in tan shorts and tube socks, but the Coast Guard are still tougher than I am now...

Well, one of the insulations provided by the internet is that, with anonymity, none of you really have to feel responsible for the outcome here. (That said, I stand by my statement that everyone's input has been both patient and useful.)

My own real life friends have expressed concern, and they are unanimous in their dislike for the military option. The general consensus among my IRL circle of comrades is that I will not likely satisfy the fitness standards for enlisment in anything other than the Reserve Coast Guard of Pacifistia.

I've been looking more into the French Foreign Legion...I'm sure they have their own perils (to spare), but at least I wouldn't be in the middle of Iran in 2010.

do you know how hot it is in equatorial africa??

here's my real advice:

while youre waiting to make your big life decision, start working on yourself physically. make a new food plan that emphasizes good nutrition. dont eat any more crap. bad food leads to bad thoughts.

i read the post about going to the gym. thats bad. when you are feeling strong, make a modest plan for getting more exercise. start with walking or swimming. do it every day. that "youre not doing it right" shit is your brain trying to get you out of exercising. once youve worked yourself up to walking a few miles at a time youll be ready for the gym.

good food and good exercise can reorient your brain. half of what you are going through now is your personal history and half is bad lifestyle. fix the lifestyle and you can start to overcome your history.

this is april....you dont have to start law school until august? accept an offer from whatever school you think is best for you. come august you can decide if its really for you or not. there is no sense spending the money and effort on law school if you dont have a burning desire to be a lawyer. and there is no sense not taking a spot now when you might well really want to go to law school when that day comes.

Well, one of the insulations provided by the internet is that, with anonymity, none of you really have to feel responsible for the outcome here. (That said, I stand by my statement that everyone's input has been both patient and useful.)

Even mine? I told you to join the Marines, twice...

do you know how hot it is in equatorial africa??


I'm sure you're right; I was more concerned with being involved in a questionable war than the climate, but for all I know, the French have their own suspect doings in Africa...



here's my real advice:

while youre waiting to make your big life decision, start working on yourself physically. make a new food plan that emphasizes good nutrition. dont eat any more crap. bad food leads to bad thoughts.

i read the post about going to the gym. thats bad. when you are feeling strong, make a modest plan for getting more exercise. start with walking or swimming. do it every day. that "youre not doing it right" shit is your brain trying to get you out of exercising. once youve worked yourself up to walking a few miles at a time youll be ready for the gym.

good food and good exercise can reorient your brain. half of what you are going through now is your personal history and half is bad lifestyle. fix the lifestyle and you can start to overcome your history.

this is april....you dont have to start law school until august? accept an offer from whatever school you think is best for you. come august you can decide if its really for you or not. there is no sense spending the money and effort on law school if you dont have a burning desire to be a lawyer. and there is no sense not taking a spot now when you might well really want to go to law school when that day comes.

Your suggestions seem to be in good company, with the quantity and quality of the thread supporting your advice.

Walking a few miles...seems a fair first step, or steps, as it were.

Yes, my seat deposit for my first choice school is due on the 15th of this month, I have the check in my wallet. Its sat there, a prisoner of my doubts, for a week or two. But class itself wouldn't begin until late August, early September.

Its a gorgeous day out, and I"m still in my gym shorts and shoes.



Let it never be said that the internet was only for porn. I shall go for a walk.

My thanks.

Even mine? I told you to join the Marines, twice...

That has been useful as well, in that, if I decide to serve in the US forces, it seems the most challenging (without slight to the others) to join the Marines.

jhahannam, is any of this true?I don't doubt that it's true. I know problems like this sound ridiculous to most people but they are real, I know because I have the same thing. Whenever I sit down to do something important, I become afraid of failing and mentally go over all of my past failures. This doesn't happen when I do something I consider unimportant, like video games, but if I ever got good enough at video games to do it for a living the same fear would surface. I think it's general anxiety disorder although I haven't been the a psychologist for a whole so it isn't really fair to diagnose myself.

Whenever I describe this to anyone, they always say something like "oh, I do the same thing!" Most people who say that do NOT do the same thing. They put off something for an hour and then finish it. They don't skip class for a year out of fear and then have to repeat the grade. I don't act like that any more though, I've improved since going to college. I'm still kind of screwed up though.

That has been useful as well, in that, if I decide to serve in the US forces, it seems the most challenging (without slight to the others) to join the Marines.

Well, my experience is that physically (at least as far as boot camp is concerned) the army is actually tougher than the Marines...
Though that might be because I went through Army boot camp first...

That has been useful as well, in that, if I decide to serve in the US forces, it seems the most challenging (without slight to the others) to join the Marines.
Pal, let me give you some help. The only service you are eligible for because of your advanced age is the Army. The Navy has a cut-off at 34. The USMC won't take you past 29. But make up your mind quickly because the Army will only take you up to age 42. But don't apply until you can exceed the minimum physical requirements.

You sound too morose, indecisive, whiny, and self-centered to succeed in any branch of the Armed Forces. If you're looking for a challenge, try knitting. I think you might be able to pull that off without hurting yourself. After you successfully learn the difference between knitting and purling, you might try a little harder challenge like committing yourself to a goal and see it through to a successful conclusion. I can't see how going to one more school is going to be the answer.

Pal, let me give you some help. The only service you are eligible for because of your advanced age is the Army. The Navy has a cut-off at 34. The USMC won't take you past 29. But make up your mind quickly because the Army will only take you up to age 42. But don't apply until you can exceed the minimum physical requirements.


This is useful and certainly narrows my choices. I checked and the FFL takes applications up to 40.


You sound too morose, indecisive, whiny, and self-centered to succeed in any branch of the Armed Forces.

My understanding is that they claim to be able to remedy these faults. That may be mere recruiting hype, but they claim it.


If you're looking for a challenge, try knitting. I think you might be able to pull that off without hurting yourself. After you successfully learn the difference between knitting and purling, you might try a little harder challenge like committing yourself to a goal and see it through to a successful conclusion. I can't see how going to one more school is going to be the answer.

I can see where my weakness would be disgusting to anyone at the other end of the spectrum. Sadly, current levels of industrialization don't really allow one to make a living at knitting.

I don't doubt that it's true. I know problems like this sound ridiculous to most people but they are real, I know because I have the same thing. Whenever I sit down to do something important, I become afraid of failing and mentally go over all of my past failures. This doesn't happen when I do something I consider unimportant, like video games, but if I ever got good enough at video games to do it for a living the same fear would surface. I think it's general anxiety disorder although I haven't been the a psychologist for a whole so it isn't really fair to diagnose myself.

Whenever I describe this to anyone, they always say something like "oh, I do the same thing!" Most people who say that do NOT do the same thing. They put off something for an hour and then finish it. They don't skip class for a year out of fear and then have to repeat the grade. I don't act like that any more though, I've improved since going to college. I'm still kind of screwed up though.

That sounds like a difficult obsession to cope with. I'm glad that you've made progress and it does offer me encouragement that you were able to at least somewhat overcome it.

This is useful and certainly narrows my choices. I checked and the FFL takes applications up to 40.



My understanding is that they claim to be able to remedy these faults. That may be mere recruiting hype, but they claim it.



I can see where my weakness would be disgusting to anyone at the other end of the spectrum. Sadly, current levels of industrialization don't really allow one to make a living at knitting.
Hey. Are you an AI program? You sound just like the LISP "doctor" program that was bundled into EMACS.

Hey, all

I am a tubby, weak, soft-handed 35 year old American (note I am not saying all Americans are fat or weak, I'm including that as a separate piece of information).

I've tried religion, tried joining a cult, tried meditation, nothing has worked. I can't live with what I am, I have to change, radically.

So, my question is this: At my age, is it possible to be "born again hard" through military service?

I'm told militaries are able to "tear you down, then build you up into something strong". Is that recruiting poster horseshit, or do they actually do this?

I was planning on starting Law School in September, and I've been accepted to a number of programs, but I'm worried that, as a weak human, I won't really be able to serve my clients when their ass is on the line. Failing myself is one thing, but failing people who really need me would surely damn me.

So, folks from around the world, give me your thoughts: Can a weak 35 year old failure be "reborn" into something strong through a military service?

The army and army national guard have raised their maximum age requirements from 35 to 39, so you're in luck in that regard. New recruits must pass a physical examination in order to gain entrance. Candidates should be in good physical shape and near normal their normal weight range. If you are overweight they may require that you lose some of that weight before you enlist. This is due to the grueling training during basic and thereafter. The best way to find out is to contact a recruiter. People get out of the military what they want to get out of it. If you'd like to build yourself into a stronger person then the military can assist you in that endeavor. Check for enlistment requirements and terms of service. Many people think they'll be getting out before they are truly done with their service. Read the fine print and don't be surprised. If you want the easy route go into the Airforce. Flyboys get it the easiest during basic.

As for me I was a strong person before joining the Marine Corp and an even stronger person as a result of it. if you choose to be a Marine you will be tested physically and mentally. You also have to deal with an 8 year enlistment term. Not all of that has to be on active, but they own your ass for 8 years whether you know it or not. Just be sure you know what you are getting into.

Semper Fidelis.

Hey. Are you an AI program? You sound just like the LISP "doctor" program that was bundled into EMACS.

I'd like to think that if I am merely some assemblage of heuristics that the programming team responsible would have come up with something more useful.

Seems like a hell of a lot of code to end every module with return "I quit".

The army and army national guard have raised their maximum age requirements from 35 to 39, so you're in luck in that regard. New recruits must pass a physical examination in order to gain entrance. Candidates should be in good physical shape and near normal their normal weight range. If you are overweight they may require that you lose some of that weight before you enlist. This is due to the grueling training during basic and thereafter. The best way to find out is to contact a recruiter. People get out of the military what they want to get out of it. If you'd like to build yourself into a stronger person then the military can assist you in that endeavor. Check for enlistment requirements and terms of service. Many people think they'll be getting out before they are truly done with their service. Read the fine print and don't be surprised. If you want the easy route go into the Airforce. Flyboys get it the easiest during basic.

As for me I was a strong person before joining the Marine Corp and an even stronger person as a result of it. if you choose to be a Marine you will be tested physically and mentally. You also have to deal with an 8 year enlistment term. Not all of that has to be on active, but they own your ass for 8 years whether you know it or not. Just be sure you know what you are getting into.

Semper Fidelis.

And this is true of all branches of the military...

The army and army national guard have raised their maximum age requirements from 35 to 39, so you're in luck in that regard. New recruits must pass a physical examination in order to gain entrance. Candidates should be in good physical shape and near normal their normal weight range. If you are overweight they may require that you lose some of that weight before you enlist. This is due to the grueling training during basic and thereafter. The best way to find out is to contact a recruiter. People get out of the military what they want to get out of it. If you'd like to build yourself into a stronger person then the military can assist you in that endeavor. Check for enlistment requirements and terms of service. Many people think they'll be getting out before they are truly done with their service. Read the fine print and don't be surprised. If you want the easy route go into the Airforce. Flyboys get it the easiest during basic.

As for me I was a strong person before joining the Marine Corp and an even stronger person as a result of it. if you choose to be a Marine you will be tested physically and mentally. You also have to deal with an 8 year enlistment term. Not all of that has to be on active, but they own your ass for 8 years whether you know it or not. Just be sure you know what you are getting into.

Semper Fidelis.

Thank you for the information. I am evidently too old for the USMC, so my only options would be the US Army or the FFL.

From what I've seen so far, I would definitely have to spend a great deal of time getting in to shape before I can even apply.

I am glad to have heard from some Army and Marine people. Any past Legionairres?

<snip>

I envy artists a great deal, as even their suffering yields fruit, that while bitter in its moment of birth, brings sustenance and sweetness for centuries.
Everyone's suffering yields fruit. Everyone's. That was part of the point of the Rubenstein quote. Whatever life throws at you, take it, live with it, use it somehow to get closer to something desirable. The one thing that will not make you successful is sitting around, second guessing life or quibbling with the way it's going for you.

<snip>

They lied to me. All of them. They told me, from the time I could speak, that I was "gifted". They ran their asinine little standardized tests, they labeled some of us this and others that.

They told me that I was one of the chosen, that I would do great things.

They fucking lied to me.
As a died-in-the-wool cynic and misanthrope who was also a "gifted" child, let me explain something very basic to you:

The people who tell children that they are "gifted" are almost never "gifted" themselves.

Do yourself an enormous favor and try now, at age 35, to stop giving credence to the bullshit expectations of idiots. Stop pushing yourself to meet, and blaming yourself for not meeting, their moronic and arbitrary pseudo-standards, which have no foundation in nor reference to reality whatsoever -- and even less to do with you.

And this is true of all branches of the military...

The Navy and Air Force are a little more lax on this. They offer limited enlistment programs that do not last 8 years.

The Navy and Air Force are a little more lax on this. They offer limited enlistment programs that do not last 8 years.

The standard, however, is an 8 year enlistment...
Also, obviously they changed the rules since I was in (but then that was close to twenty years ago now...).

<snip>

I can see where my weakness would be disgusting to anyone at the other end of the spectrum. Sadly, current levels of industrialization don't really allow one to make a living at knitting.
Actually, that's not strictly true. In addition to all my other accomplishments (:cool:) I also happen to be into knitting, and I know quite a few people who are shitloads more into it than I am who make quite nice little livings at it. Publishing patterns for hobby knitters and selling yarns/fibers -- that's where the money is -- potentially millions. Google anything to do with knitting, knitting yarns, knitting books, knitting patterns, knitting blogs, knitting design, knitting groups. You'll be amazed what's going on out there.

Everyone's suffering yields fruit. Everyone's. That was part of the point of the Rubenstein quote. Whatever life throws at you, take it, live with it, use it somehow to get closer to something desirable. The one thing that will not make you successful is sitting around, second guessing life or quibbling with the way it's going for you.

I definitely want to stop sitting around (the walk was nice, but I'm alarmed at how easily winded I was, definitely need to keep at it).

A friend just told me that the Serbian military has units that accept foreign nationals, and he says the training is monstrous but potentially transformative.

It would be interesting to meet a knitting mogul...or better yet, a knitting savant whose needles move faster than the eye can see, by sheer will and skill forcing into existence new patterns and textures never before seen.

As a died-in-the-wool cynic and misanthrope who was also a "gifted" child, let me explain something very basic to you:

The people who tell children that they are "gifted" are almost never "gifted" themselves.

Do yourself an enormous favor and try now, at age 35, to stop giving credence to the bullshit expectations of idiots. Stop pushing yourself to meet, and blaming yourself for not meeting, their moronic and arbitrary pseudo-standards, which have no foundation in nor reference to reality whatsoever -- and even less to do with you.

Their bullshit expectations were the only thing I ever believed in that made me worthwhile. Once those are gone, I'm just one more person scraping a living, contributing nothing extraordinary.

I think that's what I'm really running from. The fact that I'm not special, never was. After spending so many years thinking I was, its just too much to find out I'm nothing.

I'm going to go make dinner to surprise my lady when she gets home.

Thanks everybody. I mean that.

Their bullshit expectations were the only thing I ever believed in that made me worthwhile. Once those are gone, I'm just one more person scraping a living, contributing nothing extraordinary.

I think that's what I'm really running from. The fact that I'm not special, never was. After spending so many years thinking I was, its just too much to find out I'm nothing.
You are someone special, and this is why \/
I'm going to go make dinner to surprise my lady when she gets home.
Not everyone would do that.
Thanks everybody. I mean that.

De Nada

I was going to give my usual speech about the toxic illusion that is "specialness," but Dyakovo's post is much better and 100% true.

I'll just repeat my advice that you should stop measuring yourself by other people's standards. They aren't good enough to measure you by. Ignore them.

I was going to give my usual speech about the toxic illusion that is "specialness," but Dyakovo's post is much better and 100% true.

I'll just repeat my advice that you should stop measuring yourself by other people's standards. They aren't good enough to measure you by. Ignore them.

I'm not sure how I manage to be so self-absorbed and yet still so concerned with the views of other people...of course, I seem mainly fixated on their views about me so I suppose its consistent in its awfulness.

I've met people who care deeply about others while still having a balanced regard for themselves. Somehow, I've turned inside out that filmy membrane between the self and the society.

Tell me, how autonomic is the artistic sensibility? In your work, do you have to "try" to summon artistic ideas, or do they well up instinctively? Or is there a different dynamic altogether?

I don't know if someone''s already written this but...

...get a blog?

Given many other people in this world profess to have similar feelings, maybe an honest blog, regardless of whether anyone reads it, would be good. You write well, it's not that hard a commitment - often you can fill them with links to articles and etc., that highlight your POV.

It's a short writing task each day - give it a go?

I'm not sure how I manage to be so self-absorbed and yet still so concerned with the views of other people...

At some point we know that while, because we're all we know, we are at the centre of our universe, we're also just one of millions at the centre of their universe.

γνῶθι σεαυτόν - means 'know yourself' and was written above the entrance to the Delphic Oracle, where people went to consult on the future - I've always believed that a true, honest search into who you are, and I mean brutally honest, is the best means of determining what your future should be.

Knowing yourself deeply, your strengths and weaknesses, is, oddly, also the best means of knowing, understanding and sympathising with everyone else.

I don't know if someone''s already written this but...

...get a blog?

Given many other people in this world profess to have similar feelings, maybe an honest blog, regardless of whether anyone reads it, would be good. You write well, it's not that hard a commitment - often you can fill them with links to articles and etc., that highlight your POV.

It's a short writing task each day - give it a go?

You are profoundly kind to suggest that my whimpering, muttering prose deserves that kind of bandwidth, but outside the indulging citizens of the many nationstates, I can't imagine staining a whole blog with my daily life.

A generous suggestion, though, and I appreciate it.

At some point we know that while, because we're all we know, we are at the centre of our universe, we're also just one of millions at the centre of their universe.

γνῶθι σεαυτόν - means 'know yourself' and was written above the entrance to the Delphic Oracle, where people went to consult on the future - I've always believed that a true, honest search into who you are, and I mean brutally honest, is the best means of determining what your future should be.

Knowing yourself deeply, your strengths and weaknesses, is, oddly, also the best means of knowing, understanding and sympathising with everyone else.


The problem is, every time I ask for "brutal honesty" from others, I get "shut up and quit whining, just try" and for some reason, that isn't working.

Brutal honesty with myself might lead me to be almost paralyzed with disgust.

The problem is, every time I ask for "brutal honesty" from others, I get "shut up and quit whining, just try" and for some reason, that isn't working.

Brutal honesty with myself might lead me to be almost paralyzed with disgust.

Don't need to ask others, it can only be with yourself - you'll actually find that you can ascribe the worst to yourself or the best, discerning the truth within that, you'll hopefully realise that you're just human.

I was going to give my usual speech about the toxic illusion that is "specialness," but Dyakovo's post is much better and 100% true.

I'll just repeat my advice that you should stop measuring yourself by other people's standards. They aren't good enough to measure you by. Ignore them.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff315/Sarothai/Smileys/Dziekuje.gif

Gracias, Muryavets.

The problem is, every time I ask for "brutal honesty" from others, I get "shut up and quit whining, just try" and for some reason, that isn't working.

Brutal honesty with myself might lead me to be almost paralyzed with disgust.

screw brutal honesty.

all you need to be in this life is to be a good person. ask those you are close to if you are a good person. ask your woman if your life is a waste.

take their opinion to heart. you are not qualified to judge your own life (at this point).

and take my advice about diet and exercise. if you dont know what "stop eating crap" means, go to the library and get a book that outlines a diabetic diet. (or consult a real nutritionist--one who doesnt sell any products) diabetic food guidelines are extremely focused on balance and nutrition and will benefit anyone who is clueless about what to eat.

I'm not sure how I manage to be so self-absorbed and yet still so concerned with the views of other people...of course, I seem mainly fixated on their views about me so I suppose its consistent in its awfulness.

I've met people who care deeply about others while still having a balanced regard for themselves. Somehow, I've turned inside out that filmy membrane between the self and the society.
Heh, this reminds me of a TV ad for Verizon Yellow Pages. It was the campaign that pulled random category headings from the phone book and illustrated them with overly literal skits.

This one was "Vanity Cases," showing a bunch of self-obsessed socialistas bragging about themselves at a party. My favorite, which is now a kind of catch phrase for me, was a woman saying to a guy:

"Well, enough about me. Let's talk about you. What do you think of my dress?"

Hm...? ;) :p

Tell me, how autonomic is the artistic sensibility?
A lot, I'm guessing, because my initial reaction to that question was "How the fuck should I know?"

In your work, do you have to "try" to summon artistic ideas, or do they well up instinctively? Or is there a different dynamic altogether?
Every single artist is different, just like every single person's way of processing thought is different.

By the way, there's more to being an artist than just being creative or having ideas. There's the part about executing the ideas, too. It's a business, a profession, a skilled trade. Not every creative person is an artist.

Brutal honesty with myself might lead me to be almost paralyzed with disgust.

It might, but you won't know till you try.