NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23905909/

Attack of the killer children. They knock you out. Bind you up and jab at you. Attack of the killer children.

any thoughts?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23905909/

Attack of the killer children. They knock you out. Bind you up and jab at you. Attack of the killer children.

any thoughts?

No recess for them. :p

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23905909/

Attack of the killer children. They knock you out. Bind you up and jab at you. Attack of the killer children.

any thoughts?

To be honest I am confused what to think ... one or two out of there kids but 9? while on the surface I find it un-acceptable on their part but with that many involved I begin to wonder what else might have motivated it as well

Killer children? I think I saw them in action in that movie Hostel. Just give 'em candy. Problem solved. :D

Time to up their Ritalin dose.

maybe she was mean?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23905909/

Attack of the killer children. They knock you out. Bind you up and jab at you.



I know people that would pay good money for that!

Anyway, it looks to me like a case of one or two (maybe three) children getting a lot of others to go along with this. Kids try crazy schemes.. once I tried to set up a business re-selling a popular candy item in fourth grade.

Of course, this is a *violent* scheme.. but it's possible the kids didn't realize what the impact of their actions would be. I can't say whether or not they'd honestly have gone through with it, but it seems to me that's the most important facet of this right now.

Creepy. Wait a minute, who's that?


Jack Thompson: "It's obvious that these kids played video games!!! We should ban video games now!"


But seriously, this is scary that a bunch of 8 to 10 year-olds would try something like this, escpicially with a (Broken) steak knife.

OK, these kids were smarter than we gave them credit for. And they're not using it well.

Creepy. Wait a minute, who's that?


Jack Thompson: "It's obvious that these kids played video games!!! We should ban video games now!"


But seriously, this is scary that a bunch of 8 to 10 year-olds would try something like this, escpicially with a (Broken) steak knife. Especially when they should be using the time to learn tough words like 'especially', huh?

Y'all are missing something important... These kids are all in one third grade classroom and they are 8,9, and 10 years old. That's a huge range of ages in third grade. Third grade is one of those "gateway" grades that No-Child-Left-Behind has scarred. Kids have to take tests to get out of this grade and the schools are not allowed to promote any kid that fails.

So what am I saying? It could be that Teddy Kennedy and GWB conspired to create the conditions that would lead to the attack on this teacher... Or maybe NCLB is a pile of horse manure and ought to be cancelled.

They may be only third grade, but their plotting to kill and team work are at at least 8th grade level... I doubt they thought too much about the repercussions once they found the body though... So, maybe only 7th...

That is honestly well and truely fucked up though... 3rd grade kids should be playing with lego and barbies...

Sentence them to serve time at Neverland Ranch. Whoever is left standing, it's a win-win situation.

"You can't dismiss it," Tanner said. "But because they are kids, they may have thought this was like a cartoon — we do whatever and then she stands up and she's OK. That's a hard call."


Oh boy. I now await the censorship watchdogs and nanny state advocates to commence attack.

Seriously, its possible that there is maybe one deranged kid who cam up with it, and the other kids (who remember are developmentally disabled in some cases) thought it either was a joke or that it wouldnt hurt her.

I suddenly feel sorry for all the teachers that are on NSG.

I will also buy them pepper spray or Taser guns.

I taught a grade 5 class with 32 children in it and I'd say 98% of the kids were dealing with the affects of Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder, moderate to severe. I had three kids who had serious learning disabilities...one was mediated to the eyeballs and struck nearly dumb because of it...when he was off his meds he'd hide under tables and defecate. The other two were not medicated. One of them would fly into uncontrollable rages quite often, attacking other students, or myself. On more than one occasion I had to take the other students out of the room, and leave this boy in the classroom by himself until I could get help. The other boy threatened to stab me with a pencil, some scissors, a sharpened ruler, and a compass. (I was pregnant at the time mind you)

And yet, I didn't have it that bad. One of my colleagues had a streamed class of nine kids, all with serious learning and behaviour issues. He actually had to take training to learn how to restrain them without hurting himself or the students. One managed to urinate on him while being restrained after hurling his desk through a window.

Oh the joys of teaching. And clearly we do it because the pay is so fucking fantastic :P

Oh the joys of teaching. And clearly we do it because the pay is so fucking fantastic :P

Or you're completely insane. :p

Clearly, America's Culture of Violence (TM) is to blame...:rolleyes:

Clearly, America's Culture of Violence (TM) is to blame...:rolleyes:

Clearly, the children were improperly trained! Why, they should have...!

:mp5:
:sniper:
:gundge:

Really though, this is one of those kinds of stories where you don't know the story unless you were there. Did the teacher deserve it? Or were they nuts? No telling looking in from the outside, just speculation.

Clearly, the children were improperly trained! Why, they should have...!

:mp5:
:sniper:
:gundge:

Really though, this is one of those kinds of stories where you don't know the story unless you were there. Did the teacher deserve it? Or were they nuts? No telling looking in from the outside, just speculation.

Are you fucking kidding me? Did you seriously just ask if the teacher deserved to be tied up and stabbed with a steak knife?

Are you fucking kidding me? Did you seriously just ask if the teacher deserved to be tied up and stabbed with a steak knife?

Honestly, yes. After my own experiences in the educational system I think it's a valid question.

Honestly, yes. After my own experiences in the educational system I think it's a valid question.

No. Its not.

No. Its not.

Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

I thought putting a tack on the teacher's seat was kinda harsh. But this?! Damn, kids are scary these days. This reminds me of the song Teenagers by My Chemical Romance. It describes kids perfectly.

Honestly, yes. After my own experiences in the educational system I think it's a valid question.

Regardless of what this teacher may or may not have done, even suggesting that this toddler vigilante justice MIGHT be the correct response is asinine beyond belief. I give you an F in social responsibility.

Regardless of what this teacher may or may not have done, even suggesting that this toddler vigilante justice MIGHT be the correct response is asinine beyond belief. I give you an F in social responsibility.

I never said that it was the correct response, that's an assumption on your behalf. However, that teacher could very well have commited abuses to make it seem a valid course of action to the students. That's the basic thought behind my statement.

I never said that it was the correct response, that's an assumption on your behalf. However, that teacher could very well have done abuses to make it seem a valid course of action to the students. That's the basic thought behind my statement.

Next time, be more precise at the outset. And if you are going to affect a pretentious tone, you should change 'done abuses' to 'committed abuses' or possibly 'engaged in abuses'.

Next time, be more precise at the outset. And if you are going to affect a pretentious tone, you should change 'done abuses' to 'committed abuses' or possibly 'engaged in abuses'.

It probably would help, yes. I normally catch those sorts of mistakes. Didn't proof read that time. As for the piece of grading, that's more or less flame bait with no purpose other than being a directed personal attack.

It probably would help, yes. I normally catch those sorts of mistakes. Didn't proof read that time. As for the piece of grading, that's more or less flame bait with no purpose other than being a directed personal attack.

Don't try to upgrade to a D. You haven't merited it.

F for whining.

Even if the teacher may have done something that one of the kids took offense at, this does not necessarily mean "abuse". Giving someone a bad mark for a test could have been enough. And then they take the right in their own hands as they see adults doing that all the time.

As with many group activities, it only needs one to come up with the plan and the rest jumps (or is being jumped) on the bandwagon.

For some reason, back in my day, not too long ago mind you, we got belts from responsible parents when we did something wrong. Not beating, mind you, just discipline. I turned out alright, and every lesson about doing right retained with me. Nothing was ever forced, but if I ever crossed the line: Say stealing or hurting somebody, I got a woopin'.

I dunno, I mean I can't suggest that the Old Fashioned Belt is meant for these days, but back then it sure kept things in order. You respected teachers, even if you didn't like them. And you certainly didn't plot to kill no one.

Whats the world coming to when CHILDREN plot to kill?

I guess parents these days are afraid to discipline their kids because they're fucking afraid of them!! AAAHHH!!! OMG! KIDS WITH GUNS ARE GOING TO KILL US ALL!!! I'M SORRY BILLY, YOU DON"T HAVE TO EAT YOUR VEGETABLES, JUST PLEASE DON'T KILL ME!!!

I never said that it was the correct response, that's an assumption on your behalf. However, that teacher could very well have commited abuses to make it seem a valid course of action to the students. That's the basic thought behind my statement.

See, in western civilization, and indeed, in most of the world, wehave these things called laws in our society to punish abuse. Theyre actually pretty neat.

When I was that age, I used to plot the demise of hated teachers, but typically that plotting was limited to daydreams and crudely drawn maps to the locations of pools of quicksand to push him/her into. *nod*

I guess parents these days are afraid to discipline their kids because they're fucking afraid of them!! AAAHHH!!! OMG! KIDS WITH GUNS ARE GOING TO KILL US ALL!!! I'M SORRY BILLY, YOU DON"T HAVE TO EAT YOUR VEGETABLES, JUST PLEASE DON'T KILL ME!!!

Where did this come from?

Where did this come from?

I'm just exaggerating. It's sad to see things like this. It is obvious that society and morals aren't what they used to be. Back in the day it is true, a good woopin' usually set a kid straight, some kids needed more than others to get it through their heads (like me). Anyways, our culture is becoming more and more desensitized (probably spelled wrong) by the day. What morals we have left as a society are eroding away by popular culture which certain aspects of it are less than desireable.

There's numerous problems and they are far too complex to fix easily. This shocked me. 3rd graders plotting to kill their teachers. We never even thought of that back when I was a kid. Yeah, there were teachers I hated but never entertained or even took seriously, the notion of killing them!

look at that teamwork and planning!

SNIP

I was looking at primary school teaching today :eek:

When I was that age, I used to plot the demise of hated teachers, but typically that plotting was limited to daydreams and crudely drawn maps to the locations of pools of quicksand to push him/her into. *nod*

I always plotted the seizing of the language block, oddly I did quite well in German...

Where did this come from?

the 1860's?

There's numerous problems and they are far too complex to fix easily. This shocked me. 3rd graders plotting to kill their teachers. We never even thought of that back when I was a kid. Yeah, there were teachers I hated but never entertained or even took seriously, the notion of killing them!

Really? I entertaind the notion on several occassions. But I wasnt batshit enough to actually try and follow through.

Really? I entertaind the notion on several occassions. But I wasnt batshit enough to actually try and follow through.

I never thought of killing my teachers... I fantasized about brutally injuring them with a crowbar to the shin or somehting along those lines. Kids these days skip the crowbar and go straight for the Tech 9.

Back in the day it is true, a good woopin' usually set a kid straight,

no it didn't and its ridicules that we realized that corporal punishment doesn't work yet spanking children is A-okay

I never thought of killing my teachers... I fantasized about brutally injuring them with a crowbar to the shin or somehting along those lines. Kids these days skip the crowbar and go straight for the Tech 9.

As a sophmore in high school I drew a rather detailed diagram of taking my Chem teacher's head off with a sniper rifle.

But I was a fucked up kid my first two years of high school.

Ah, those were the days.

I'm just exaggerating. It's sad to see things like this. It is obvious that society and morals aren't what they used to be. Back in the day it is true, a good woopin' usually set a kid straight, some kids needed more than others to get it through their heads (like me). Anyways, our culture is becoming more and more desensitized (probably spelled wrong) by the day. What morals we have left as a society are eroding away by popular culture which certain aspects of it are less than desireable.

There's numerous problems and they are far too complex to fix easily. This shocked me. 3rd graders plotting to kill their teachers. We never even thought of that back when I was a kid. Yeah, there were teachers I hated but never entertained or even took seriously, the notion of killing them!

What surprises me is how fast its happening. First colleges, then High Schools, now Elementary Schools? I mean, hell, when I was kid video games were a good outlet for anger, or perhaps having a good ol' fashion sit down with dad and talking things over. I wasn't afraid back then to talk to my parents about my problems, to see if they were right, or natural. When I found out everyone, even my dad, had back in his day anger issues and what not, I felt better. Because I wasn't going at it alone.

The key there was support from Parents, because they loved me. They loved me enough to teach me what they believed was right, and stray from imposing what they thought was wrong. Anything every got showed that they didn't think I needed to imitate, they'd sit down and explain the situation to me the best they could and advise me on an alternate course of action if I ever get into the same situation. They were there for me.

Unfortunately it seems that in this day in age, some parents aren't. Not to say that perhaps some of the parents involved with those kids weren't, but hell! Kids themselves had to learn this from somewhere, and perhaps school was the place, or life experiences not dealt with. I'm just shocked that children did this, young ones with a future ahead of themselves, and much to work on to get there!

No one may ever know the situation(s) that led to this, perhaps it was the schools fault, perhaps parenting, or perhaps it was just something that Happened, or they learned through peer-pressure. Or, in an extreme case, something they thought of themselves to correct the way their life was going. But kids?! I could understand teenagers, but kids?!

*sighs*

I mean, so much could have gone wrong here. I can't say the Belt was the best way to go, but it worked for me. It worked for a lot of us back then. Kept us understanding of what was RIGHT and what was WRONG, and our parents always explained to us the rules our society laid out at the time, and how best to follow them and what to do to not get on the bad side of those laws. That was what school was there for too, to teach us these things, to care for our future.

Perhaps, maybe everyones giving up on kids. Maybe no one has the gall anymore to deal with it, and perhaps people just care only for themselves. I'm not saying the majority, but something obviously played a part here, and what a damn disturbing chain of events could have led to this it had to of been.

I fantasized about brutally injuring them with a crowbar to the shin or somehting along those lines.

I drew a rather detailed diagram of taking my Chem teacher's head off with a sniper rifle.

you guys are scary

no it didn't and its ridicules that we realized that corporal punishment doesn't work yet spanking children is A-okay

I don't mean beating a kid bloody. Whenever I misbehaved or did something wrong, my dad would smack me upside the head and yell at me...alot. I turned out just fine. What kind of people would we be if it weren't for our traumatic childhoods?

My upbringing couldn't have been that different from most people. I wouldn't advise corporal punishment in schools now, because kids will kill their teachers. I'm not saying that smacking your kid is the only tool, it's just another tool in the parental toolbox. Positive role-models, good life lessons, and a parent taking an active participation in their kid's lives are also very good things.

Remember these kids were developmentally disabled kids. A few of them probably either thought it was in fun or thought it was a joke.

And smacking these kids wouldnt fix anything. If anything, it would teach them might makes right and people who are bigger are allowed to enforce things on people who are little.

That's pretty scary...they're only 8,9 and 10 year olds....

As a sophmore in high school I drew a rather detailed diagram of taking my Chem teacher's head off with a sniper rifle.

But I was a fucked up kid my first two years of high school.

Ah, those were the days.

Meh, weren't we all fucked up?

no it didn't and its ridicules that we realized that corporal punishment doesn't work yet spanking children is A-okay

Yes it did. For some of us it did, who had parents that knew how to use it without beating the living sh*t out of their kids for some reason. Without that belt, I would have become some crack head on the streets not understanding what was right, or was wrong.

I'm not getting mad at the statement, I know that some people have, indeed, bad experiences with worse parents. I'm just saying that to those parents who knew how to properly use discipline, it worked. Because no matter what, we learned something, and our parents loved us enough to explain the situation and what we did wrong and how we could correct it. Not beat us senseless because we didn't believe some kind of faith, no. It was because we did something wrong, nearly breaking a law, or some other stupid thing kids do when their little. And we got corrected, and learned from our mistakes, and grew up.

All it takes is responsible parents to achieve that in someone, some of us are a testament to that. I'm proud to say that my Dad did woop me, because if he hadn't I would have done that stealing or beating up someone again. He taught me a lesson, not only by sitting down and talking to me, but also with that belt. When he finished with it, he would sit me down and explain to me why he did it, tell me what I did wrong.

Hell, most of the time after the first few woopins' I got the message, and all he had to do was sit down and talk. My parents played an active role in my life, and thats all parents need to do to change their kids life for the better. Play an active role, be there, and love them. Thats what society sometimes lacks these days, because people just seem like they don't care anymore.

And for that, I'm proud to say I got a woopin', because my parents cared enough to teach me right from wrong.

I don't mean beating a kid bloody.

nor do I :confused:

Whenever I misbehaved or did something wrong, my dad would smack me upside the head and yell at me...alot. I turned out just fine. What kind of people would we be if it weren't for our traumatic childhoods?

1) just because you turned out fine yadda yadda

2) first link of google search

Not one single study was found which showed corporal punishment was necessary. Parents should therefore be helped to learn non-violent means of disciplining and training their children - the advice of bodies as widely spread as the NSPCC in the UK, Save the Children in Sweden and the UK, and the American Academy of Pediatrics.

Findings were exceptionally robust that corporal punishment:

... decreases children's moral internalisation

... increases aggression in childhood

... increases criminal and anti-social behaviour in childhood

... undermines a positive relationship between parent and child

... impairs mental health in childhood

... increases the likelihood that children will be victims of physical abuse

8 studies agreed, with a less than 1 in 100 chance of this result being invalid, that it:

... impairs mental health in adulthood

The following was found unanimously, but has to be treated with caution because of the small number of studies:

... increases aggression in adulthood

... increases the abuse of their own children or spouses when punished individuals become parents

There was a 4-1 finding that corporal punishment:

... increases criminal and anti-social behaviour in adulthood

There was a 3-2 finding that corporal punishment:

... increases children's immediate compliance to parental directives

source (http://www.wavetrust.org/index.htm?http://www.wavetrust.org/Preventing_Violence/Effects_of_Smacking.htm)

I don't mean beating a kid bloody. Whenever I misbehaved or did something wrong, my dad would smack me upside the head and yell at me...alot. I turned out just fine. What kind of people would we be if it weren't for our traumatic childhoods?

My upbringing couldn't have been that different from most people. I wouldn't advise corporal punishment in schools now, because kids will kill their teachers. I'm not saying that smacking your kid is the only tool, it's just another tool in the parental toolbox. Positive role-models, good life lessons, and a parent taking an active participation in their kid's lives are also very good things.


I agree.

Yet today we have kids growing up that feel no repurcussions for what they do. Do we really think suspension of 3rd graders is going to teach them a thing? I don't. A good whipping though is another story.

A good whipping though is another story.

Evidence suggests otherwise.

Physical abuse does not translate into a positive outcome in most cases.



Meh, next time my fiance does something wrong, I guess Ill smack her. That'll teach her. I mean, violence works doesnt it? Why would it only work on kids then?

Anagonia explained it perfectly. For some people, it works. For others, it doesn't. Each parent has to make the decision. My father was the disiplinarian and my mother was the one who chose the less abrasive approach. This combination, coupled with the fact I was involved with other things such as the Boy Scouts and other organizations, it worked out. Anagonia said it well b saying that some parents these days, just don't take interest. As well as existing psychological problems, bad role-models, popular culture, and other things.

I agree.

Yet today we have kids growing up that feel no repurcussions for what they do. Do we really think suspension of 3rd graders is going to teach them a thing? I don't. A good whipping though is another story.

My father would've beat me senseless if he found out I plotted to kill my teacher.

Anagonia explained it perfectly. For some people, it works. For others, it doesn't. Each parent has to make the decision. My father was the disiplinarian and my mother was the one who chose the less abrasive approach. This combination, coupled with the fact I was involved with other things such as the Boy Scouts and other organizations, it worked out. Anagonia said it well b saying that some parents these days, just don't take interest. As well as existing psychological problems, bad role-models, popular culture, and other things.


Why cant you be a good role model and take an active part in your kids life while using non-physical approaches to punishment?

Without that belt, I would have become some crack head on the streets not understanding what was right, or was wrong.

as opposed to say all those kids who grow up without parents resorting to violence

odd how your bring right and wrong into this

I'm just saying that to those parents who knew how to properly use discipline, it worked.

source?

And for that, I'm proud to say I got a woopin', because my parents cared enough to teach me right from wrong.

they taught you right from wrong by hitting a child...well just the other day a Mechanic tried tried to get some money off me with lies! maybe I should of hit him...

Why cant you be a good role model and take an active part in your kids life while using non-physical approaches to punishment?

I'm not saying you can't. Like I said before, good role modeling, active partcipation, and other non-physical approaches are all part of the parental tool box. You can choose to use certain tools and opt out of others. Physical punishment is another tool.

Why cant you be a good role model and take an active part in your kids life while using non-physical approaches to punishment?

Because sometimes you do something so bad there is no alternative. You don't, excuse my language, kitty-foot around when your kids things its right to stab another kid just because he doesn't like them. Some situations deserve it. Though, all this goes for the type of parents, and those who decide what best course of action needs to be taken. If your an active part in your kids life and can solve it by non-physical actions, then your a saint and need to be praised! Go you! You did it!

But sometimes some kids just didn't listen, like me, and although my Father sat down with me after I was properly punished, he believed that the belt was right.

But anyways, I've made my point, and Kulikovia has valid points too. We come from a time when our parents took active approaches towards our life, and participated in them. So, it may be different now, but back then it got us straightened out.

as opposed to say all those kids who grow up without parents resorting to violence

odd how your bring right and wrong into this



source?



they taught you right from wrong by hitting a child...well just the other day a Mechanic tried tried to get some money off me with lies! maybe I should of hit him...

Buddy, I don't need to prove anything to you. Your involved with something so warped that I don't need to give you ammo. While I respect your views, I'll respect you more by ignoring you after I make this comment:

There are no numbers to what happened, just how I grew up. My father, God Rest His Soul, did his best and what a damn good job he did. When I did something wrong that needed a belt, by the Lord I got it. He didn't beat me to death, or draw blood, he was monitored in his approach. But he made dang sure I felt it. Its the way kids grew up for centuries, parents doing that, and sometimes bad parents took advantage.

But you know, my parents were different, because I don't have mental scarring. I'm not traumatized. I can't say what your life brought you, but maybe I'm just the guy that turned out right because my parents did it right without breaking their kids minds in the process.

But of course, I'm not you. So I don't know what you went through to lead you to the results your logic has led you to. Otherwise, I'll leave you alone.

For some people, it works. For others, it doesn't.

weird how its the parents who actually use spanking who have to resort to it

Physical punishment is another tool.

a tool which has been shown to be unnecessary and harmful

weird how its the parents who actually use spanking who have to resort to it



a tool which has been shown to be unnecessary and harmful

I'm glad that the strictly non-physical appraoche worked so well for you. Honestly, I am. I hated getting a hand upside the head and an earful. What I did to avoid that was by not doing what I did to get that hand in the first place. I also learned through non-physical means of parenting, to behave properly and to be good.

Buddy, I don't need to prove anything to you.

yeah you do hence the term debate...perhaps you could try hitting me to make me learn! :p

Your involved with something so warped that I don't need to give you ammo.

well I am making some gingerbread men to bring into work...

Remember these kids were developmentally disabled kids. A few of them probably either thought it was in fun or thought it was a joke. Actually, depending on the disability, some of these kids most likely are unable, as in actually unable, to understand the moral consequences of their actions, because they are actually unable to understand or conform to mainstream morality. Children with FASD for example, again depending on the severity, can be unable to make connections between cause and action in some very shocking situations...such as, if I pull the seat out from under this kid, she will fall and hurt herself. Knowing right from wrong isn't an inherent or intuitive trait, and in some cases, is something that will never truly be within the grasp of some people.

I'm glad that the strictly non-physical appraoche worked so well for you.

actually I had both-ish, didn't work I just got pissed off

What I did to avoid that was by not doing what I did to get that hand in the first place

which is learning right and wrong?

actually I had both-ish, didn't work I just got pissed off



which is learning right and wrong?


Then it didn't work for you. It's different for some people. It worked for me and not you.


Just another way of learning right from wrong.

Especially when they should be using the time to learn tough words like 'especially', huh?

Y'all are missing something important... These kids are all in one third grade classroom and they are 8,9, and 10 years old. That's a huge range of ages in third grade. Third grade is one of those "gateway" grades that No-Child-Left-Behind has scarred. Kids have to take tests to get out of this grade and the schools are not allowed to promote any kid that fails.

So what am I saying? It could be that Teddy Kennedy and GWB conspired to create the conditions that would lead to the attack on this teacher... Or maybe NCLB is a pile of horse manure and ought to be cancelled.

It's not actually a huge range of ages. Children in 3rd grade are usually 8 and turn 9. One that was 9 and turned 10 would have been held back only once. Just to clarify of course.

Then it didn't work for you. It's different for some people. It worked for me and not you.

and statistics show that it has harmed a rather large amount of people

Just another way of learning right from wrong.

"if I'm bad I will be hit so I won't be bad" is not learning right from wrong

and statistics show that it has harmed a rather large amount of people



"if I'm bad I will be hit so I won't be bad" is not learning right from wrong

Maybe the age of corporal punishment is at an end? Maybe not? When I am a father, I'll use the same mixture that my parents used.

It works for some people

Evidence suggests otherwise.

Physical abuse does not translate into a positive outcome in most cases.



Meh, next time my fiance does something wrong, I guess Ill smack her. That'll teach her. I mean, violence works doesnt it? Why would it only work on kids then?

When corporal punishment is administered judiciously there is no harm whatsoever in it. I read the list posted here, and am very aware of such studies. Generalizing all people into one study is silly.

I was raised in a home and schools that administered corporal punishment. Not once did I ever receive a spanking that I didn't know exactly what it was for, nor did I recieve such discipline undeserved. Our society disciplines people who break the rules. The punishments are uncomfortable and inconvenient for the those who break the rules (they are supposed to be anyway). It is foolish to raise our children with the idea that there are no repercussions to their behavior, that there is no discomfort.

No third grader is going to give a flip about being suspended. Only a fool thinks that will teach those "killer kiddies" a lesson. It isn't about violence, so don't try to make it about that. A disciplined administration of a spanking isn't violent. It is humiliating, and it smarts no doubt. But it isn't violent by any means.

Slapping your child because you have had a pissy day at work is abuse. Spanking a child for back talking a parent is not abuse, it is meant to leave a lesson that is remembered so the behavior is not repeated. I daresay most people learned from it and they function just fine in society today. It's no different than a bell and salivation. It leads to learned behavior.

As far as the need for it, the number of times total I have ever had the need to spank my kids can be counted on one hand. For three boys over 22 years that isn't too bad of a record, nor does it indicate that I use this method of discipline carelessly. In each event it worked and the issue that reaped such discipline was never repeated again. Amazing how well it works in fact.

Lots of people disagree on this issue. Some for it, some against it. Some like to portray corporal punishment as this violent evil method of teaching, it isn't unless it is used with that intent. I don't think schools should have the authority to administer corporal punishment, but I will never support that parents should not have that right. I know as a parent who was once a child myself, it has caused no harm in our families over several decades. Each family should make the decision whether to impliment the method or not. We just weren't ever in such a study. :p

As far as these kids, I do have to consider that they have disability issues. The comment I made about them needing a whipping was more that I was thinking if my kids did that, they would need a whipping. I admit I wasn't considering their issues.

When corporal punishment is administered judiciously there is no harm whatsoever in it. I read the list posted here, and am very aware of such studies. Generalizing all people into one study is silly.

I was raised in a home and schools that administered corporal punishment. Not once did I ever receive a spanking that I didn't know exactly what it was for, nor did I recieve such discipline undeserved. Our society disciplines people who break the rules. The punishments are uncomfortable and inconvenient for the those who break the rules (they are supposed to be anyway). It is foolish to raise our children with the idea that there are no repercussions to their behavior, that there is no discomfort.

No third grader is going to give a flip about being suspended. Only a fool thinks that will teach those "killer kiddies" a lesson. It isn't about violence, so don't try to make it about that. A disciplined administration of a spanking isn't violent. It is humiliating, and it smarts no doubt. But it isn't violent by any means.

Slapping your child because you have had a pissy day at work is abuse. Spanking a child for back talking a parent is not abuse, it is meant to leave a lesson that is remembered so the behavior is not repeated. I daresay most people learned from it and they function just fine in society today. It's no different than a bell and salivation. It leads to learned behavior.

As far as the need for it, the number of times total I have ever had the need to spank my kids can be counted on one hand. For three boys over 22 years that isn't too bad of a record, nor does it indicate that I use this method of discipline carelessly. In each event it worked and the issue that reaped such discipline was never repeated again. Amazing how well it works in fact.

Lots of people disagree on this issue. Some for it, some against it. Some like to portray corporal punishment as this violent evil method of teaching, it isn't unless it is used with that intent. I don't think schools should have the authority to administer corporal punishment, but I will never support that parents should not have that right. I know as a parent who was once a child myself, it has caused no harm in our families over several decades. Each family should make the decision whether to impliment the method or not. We just weren't ever in such a study. :p

As far as these kids, I do have to consider that they have disability issues. The comment I made about them needing a whipping was more that I was thinking if my kids did that, they would need a whipping. I admit I wasn't considering their issues.



Ill translate your huge long winded post-

"Screw the studies that were conducted on hundreds, MY experiance is what counts!"

You realize that there are always blips on the radar right? Studies are meant to show the trend, averages, and what will most likely happen. Thats not a risk Im ever going to take wit my kids. Especially considering the long history of depression and bi-polar in my family and my fiance's family.

I mean, so much could have gone wrong here. I can't say the Belt was the best way to go, but it worked for me. It worked for a lot of us back then. Kept us understanding of what was RIGHT and what was WRONG, and our parents always explained to us the rules our society laid out at the time, and how best to follow them and what to do to not get on the bad side of those laws.

How EXACTLY did being abused by your parents accomplish any of that?

you guys are scary

Come on, who hasn't idly thought about taking the place out with a semi-automatic?

A cookie to whoever knows where the quote is from . . .

Kbrookistan excluded, she should know it.

I'm not saying you can't. Like I said before, good role modeling, active partcipation, and other non-physical approaches are all part of the parental tool box. You can choose to use certain tools and opt out of others. Physical punishment is another tool.

A hammer is a tool. It sucks for cutting boards though.

Buddy, I don't need to prove anything to you. Your involved with something so warped that I don't need to give you ammo. While I respect your views, I'll respect you more by ignoring you after I make this comment:

There are no numbers to what happened, just how I grew up. My father, God Rest His Soul, did his best and what a damn good job he did.

Except for the physical abuse of course.

Oh the joys of teaching. And clearly we do it because the pay is so fucking fantastic :P

Or you're completely insane. :p

There is a disturbing bit of a dilemma going on: if you want to be a teacher you have to be insane. But the last people we want teaching children are lunatics.

The obvious solution is to create a draft among anyone with a master's degree or higher.

Ill translate your huge long winded post-

"Screw the studies that were conducted on hundreds, MY experiance is what counts!"

You realize that there are always blips on the radar right? Studies are meant to show the trend, averages, and what will most likely happen. Thats not a risk Im ever going to take wit my kids. Especially considering the long history of depression and bi-polar in my family and my fiance's family.

Sweetie, I took Statistics and Probability in college, I am very aware of what it takes to produce a 'study' of any kind.

Like I said each family should decide. Perhaps even, right after they teach them reading comprehension. ;)

Just another way of learning right from wrong.

Must be nice to have knowledge beaten into you that has eluded moral philosophers.

Perhaps even, right after they teach them reading comprehension. ;)

Agreed, that would have helped you.

Must be nice to have knowledge beaten into you that has eluded moral philosophers.

Socrates often implemented the elbow in his lectures to drive his philosophy into the skulls of pupils.

Socrates often implemented the elbow in his lectures to drive his philosophy into the skulls of pupils.

Socrates also found it acceptable to fuck underage boys. <Insert historical figure> did it is a piss poor excuse for doing anything.

Socrates also found it acceptable to fuck underage boys. <Insert historical figure> did it is a piss poor excuse for doing anything.In ancient greece it was unusual to NOT fuck underage boys. Peer pressure!

Socrates also found it acceptable to fuck underage boys. <Insert historical figure> did it is a piss poor excuse for doing anything.

Not only was it normal, nay, expected in Ancient Greece for that to be the case, but they were not underage.

Must be nice to have knowledge beaten into you that has eluded moral philosophers.

Um, there aren't a lot of moral philosophers who would propose a completely pacifistic approach to child rearing. Or governance in general for that matter. Especially considering just how State-of-Nature-ish kids can be at times.

I do think that corporal punishment is overused and too easily resorted too, and it's this overuse and easy resort that results in the problems suggested. But to suggest you can lead without some form of coercion when your opposition is a stubborn two-year-old just flies in the face of all practical experience and common sense. It's an application of reason and judiciousness to a place where reason and judiciousness are lost on half the parties to the dispute.

In ancient greece it was unusual to NOT fuck underage boys. Peer pressure!

I wonder if that was considered a reward or a punishment.

I wonder if that was considered a reward or a punishment.

And actually, Socrates was considered a bit weird for his prudishness on the matter. There's accounts of other men who tried to seduce him only find him completely indifferent to their attentions.

Kids these days. :p

Socrates often implemented the elbow in his lectures to drive his philosophy into the skulls of pupils.

So...


... was that right or wrong?


Obviously I wasn't hit enough by my father growing up. Or he wasn't doing it correctly. So I can't say with absolute certainty what is right and wrong for all cases I may come across.

Um, there aren't a lot of moral philosophers who would propose a completely pacifistic approach to child rearing. Or governance in general for that matter. Especially considering just how State-of-Nature-ish kids can be at times.

Meh. I wasn't claiming any number or proportion completely refuse to condone corporal punishment.

Just that there is still significant debate on what is "right" and what is "wrong." And that I find the idea of such things being (literally) beaten into people laughable.

Sweetie, I took Statistics and Probability in college, I am very aware of what it takes to produce a 'study' of any kind.

So you're aware that there have been many many thousands of cases where corporal punishment was harmful, but you still think it should just be up to the parents to decide?

So you're aware that there have been many many thousands of cases where corporal punishment was harmful, but you still think it should just be up to the parents to decide?

Cognitive dissonance can be funny like that :)

So you're aware that there have been many many thousands of cases where corporal punishment was harmful, but you still think it should just be up to the parents to decide?

Thats essentially what shes saying. But you know, her personal experiance trumps these studies.