NationStates Jolt Archive

Well let me compound my ignoance by stateing that I have no idea of what ice is?


Ice = Crystal meth

Ice is crystal meth. Users become psychotic and violent; you can see them at the hospital, takes seven guys to hold them down. Ever played that game Bioshock? It's a lot like that, except without magic.

Ahhh I se, well I would call myself a heavey user of drugs, yet I only take what I want to, and I have never wanted to try ice.



Can you imagine what would happen if ice was sold like tobacco or alcohol?

So why would making it legal mean it would sell more?

Ahhh I se, well I would call myself a heavey user of drugs, yet I only take what I want to, and I have never wanted to try ice.

That's because you've never heard of it.

So why would making it legal mean it would sell more?

Umm... because it's legal? If you can get crystal meth for $10 a pack, everyone would use it.

Yeah but i dont see Alcoholics or Tobacco Smokers becoming lazy retards who sit on their ass all day playing console games, and that think playing music loud enough to be heard down the block fits within acceptable noise control limits

But domestic violence and second hand smoke inhalation for children are ok?

Umm... because it's legal? If you can get crystal meth for $10 a pack, everyone would use it.

Yes i'm sure everyone would say "It's cheap and legal therefore I must ignore the obvious risks"

That's because you've never heard of it.

Of course I have silly, just not under that name.



Umm... because it's legal? If you can get crystal meth for $10 a pack, everyone would use it.

And how much is it nowadays? What stops those that take illegal drugs from buying it then?

Yes i'm sure everyone would say "It's cheap and legal therefore I must ignore the obvious risks"

What, they don't already?

And how much is it nowadays? What stops those that take illegal drugs from buying it then?

No idea, but it would cost a fair bit.

No idea, but it would cost a fair bit.

Bwhahaha so then you have just admited that you don't actualy know what you are talking about.

Bwhahaha so then you have just admited that you don't actualy know what you are talking about.

If crystal meth is illegal, why would it be cheap?

If crystal meth is illegal, why would it be cheap?

Why wouldn't it be? The cost is down to how much it is to produce, and how much people are willing to pay for it, and has no bearing on whether or not it is legal.

Why wouldn't it be? The cost is down to how much it is to produce, and how much people are willing to pay for it, and has no bearing on whether or not it is legal.

If it's illegal, price will increase, because it has to be worth risking your life/freedom/etc. for. Supply and demand also apply to illegal drugs as much as legal goods; for example, cocaine in 70s/80s Florida ended up being dirt cheap because there was too much of it.

If crystal meth is illegal, why would it be cheap?

for example, cocaine in 70s/80s Florida ended up being dirt cheap because there was too much of it.

I'm not going to say anything here...I'm just going to let this speak for itself.

But you are in favor of keeping heroin illegal?

No.

One study cited by ONDCP.


...yes, I know that. WHICH study. WHERE. Point it out so I can read it for myself, instead of trusting to your reading comprehension abilities. Because you don't seem to have any.

ok, funny.

It's not just healthcare, it's accidents, people's lives, and so on.

Irrelevant. The cost to you is ridiculously small. Even if one assumed there was some great scourge of marijuana-related health care costs.

Actually, the biggest cost in terms of tax dollars for marijuana is in enforcing it's illegality. But I guess you don't mind wasting your tax dollars there either, just like you don't mind wasting your tax dollars on health services for people who sun tan. Because it's not really about wasted tax dollars - who are you kidding? You don't pay taxes. - it's about how you personally dislike marijuana.

That's really related.

Yes indeed. Government expenses are government expenses.

Yup, and should stay that way. Isn't that what this is about?

So marijuana should remain illegal, because you think that means it is used less. (This is false.)

So you believe marijuana should remain illegal, because marijuana related health care and government services costs are too high. (Even though the cost of enforcing a war on drugs is much higher.)

It seems to me like you believe a completely illogical and stupid thing.

Here's a little history lesson:
In 1979 numerous states decriminalized marijuana, the White House supported it. The result: the highest levels of youth drug abuse of any civilized nation with one in ten high school seniors stoned on pot every single day. This policy was reversed and with strong law enforcement, youth drug use was cut in half and is still on decline.

I think I'll take your 'lessons' with a grain of salt.

If there was a special tanning lotion that caused exposure to the sun to increase the risk of skin cancer then it should be banned.
That's a better analogy.

A better analogy because you can answer that one. You can't answer this one. Because you know you're full of shit - because you DON'T want to outlaw sun-tanning, because you DON'T give a shit about tax dollars in health care for useless purposes. That was just an EXCUSE, and a piss-poor one at that since it doesn't even hold out.

Well whatever. You say you aren't here to debate, and that's good, since you lost.

If it's illegal, price will increase, because it has to be worth risking your life/freedom/etc. for. Supply and demand also apply to illegal drugs as much as legal goods; for example, cocaine in 70s/80s Florida ended up being dirt cheap because there was too much of it.

Bwahaha you are funny.

Bwahaha you are funny.

I watch documentaries on this things; I know what I'm talking about. Cocaine became too abundant in Florida during the 70s and 80s; it overtook marijuana as the drug of choice of middle America. More people wanted it, more gangs and organisations supplied it, and when you have a choice of where to buy your cocaine, the sellers need to keep prices competitive.

I watch documentaries on this things; I know what I'm talking about. Cocaine became too abundant in Florida during the 70s and 80s; it overtook marijuana as the drug of choice of middle America. More people wanted it, more gangs and organisations supplied it, and when you have a choice of where to buy your cocaine, the sellers need to keep prices competitive.

So please remind me, as Cocaine is still not legal nor was it in the 70's and 80's, what part all has in your theory that if drugs where legal they would be cheaper?

Coz it looks to me a like your doing a bang-up job of talking your own theory into pieces.

So please remind me, as Cocaine is still not legal nor was it in the 70's and 80's, what part all has in your theory that if drugs where legal they would be cheaper?

Coz it looks to me a like your doing a bang-up job of talking your own theory into pieces.

Cocaine was dirt cheap COMPARATIVELY. Not absolutely.

Pot can increase the risks of developing schitzophrenia in those already suseptible and can cause paranoia. I think if there's anything to suggest it could cause depression it would 1. be in those who are already depressed, and 2. be because of the social arkwardness the illegality of smoking marijuana causes.

I think if you read the studies you will find that there is NO required predisposition for depression or schitzophrenia when it comes to these conditions being linked to cannibas users. If those conditions are already present, then it would contribute to worsening the existing conditions. (Except in the case of small amounts of cannibas actually increasing seratonin...but note it is very small amounts...see article).

These are just a couple of the studies.

http://preventdisease.com/news/articles/marijuana_smoking_depression.shtml

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/129834.html


There is no question it is altering the brain chemistry in all users. How much change is a negative factor to ones health seems to be linked directly to how heavy the user is more than anything according to studies. Trying to excuse that away with the assumption that it will only affect people who already have depression and mental issues is misguided.

Cocaine was dirt cheap COMPARATIVELY. Not absolutely.


Thats just you using words that is. No source or proof of any kind to back up your stance?

In the UK at the mo you can purchase an 'E' for about £2 even cheaper if you buy in bulk, I'd say that was dirt cheap.

Thats just you using words that is. No source or proof of any kind to back up your stance?

In the UK at the mo you can purchase an 'E' for about £2 even cheaper if you buy in bulk, I'd say that was dirt cheap.

Ecstasy is shit cheap to make, though, and nobody cares about it. Cocaine's about GBP40 a gram now, which is still a lot cheaper than it used to be.

Ecstasy is shit cheap to make, though, and nobody cares about it. Cocaine's about GBP40 a gram now, which is still a lot cheaper than it used to be.

And you say that if 'E' becomes legal then it would cost less and more people would take it?

In 1979 numerous states decriminalized marijuana, the White House supported it.
This is not even remotely true. Why do you think you can get away with making up sheer fiction about a period of history that is well within living memory?

And you say that if 'E' becomes legal then it would cost less and more people would take it?

Likely. It's a party drug, and it can definitely get cheaper than GBP4 if it's legalised.

Although if it's taxed, it'll probably get more expensive, but not by much. Then again, it'll probably be sold by the packet...

Umm... because it's legal? If you can get crystal meth for $10 a pack, everyone would use it.

Just like everyone smokes cigarettes?

Just like everyone smokes cigarettes?

Of course, its legal isn't it?

What, they don't already?

Nope.

Well, quite frankly, you’re both ignorant. Do you have any idea what mass ice use would do to society?
Do you have any data whatsoever that on the advent of full legalisation, people would run out and try crystal meth en masse?

As if the illegality of the substance is the thing that's preventing people from trying it.

Do you have any data whatsoever that on the advent of full legalisation, people would run out and try crystal meth en masse?

As if the illegality of the substance is the thing that's preventing people from trying it.

Well, it's said that you can only judge others by one's self...

LOL, ok so just curious. Tell me how responsible do you think a stoner is? That is the problem to me. Stoners are not repsonsible to begin with or they wouldn't be killing their bodies for a buzz. Do you really expect them to be responsible with things like traffic and other peoples safety when they haven't the sense to care about their own bodies?

Look I smoke but I have never gone to work high and when I leave the house I'm not the one driving. I have always made sure my bills were paid first. So I think that would classify as responsible. I mean It is my body and who should be allowed to say what I can or cannot with my body if it doesn't hurt others?

Legalise It!!!!!

I love that line about every joint being one step closer to cancer. If that is the case then how come the U.S. have some states that use marijuana for for medical purposes such as giving to patients who have cancer. chemotherapy ruins a patient's appetite so pot gives them the appetite so they will eat. and it is also prescribed to people with glaucoma

I have a question to everyone who says "ZOMGZ I DNT WANTZ TO PAY FUR PEOPLE WHO GET TEH CANCER WHEN THERE DOING POT!!!11!!1!"


You already pay for peoples health insurance in countries with socialized medicine when they do reckless things.


Im speeding. I hit someone else's car when Im speeding. I break my leg. You pay for it.

So your arguement holds no water.

That's because you've never heard of it.



Umm... because it's legal? If you can get crystal meth for $10 a pack, everyone would use it.

That's just completely untrue.
As I mentioned before, studies have shown absolutely no correlation between legality of marijuana, and consumption.
So it seems unlikely that a much, much more harmful drug which is much, much less socially acceptable, would have 'everyone', or even a small increase in people, taking it just because it were legal. Furthermore, legal =/= cheap. Governments tend to increase tax with relation to how harmful something is....

...yes, I know that. WHICH study. WHERE. Point it out so I can read it for myself, instead of trusting to your reading comprehension abilities. Because you don't seem to have any.


Irrelevant. The cost to you is ridiculously small. Even if one assumed there was some great scourge of marijuana-related health care costs.

Actually, the biggest cost in terms of tax dollars for marijuana is in enforcing it's illegality. But I guess you don't mind wasting your tax dollars there either, just like you don't mind wasting your tax dollars on health services for people who sun tan. Because it's not really about wasted tax dollars - who are you kidding? You don't pay taxes. - it's about how you personally dislike marijuana.



Yes indeed. Government expenses are government expenses.



So marijuana should remain illegal, because you think that means it is used less. (This is false.)

So you believe marijuana should remain illegal, because marijuana related health care and government services costs are too high. (Even though the cost of enforcing a war on drugs is much higher.)

It seems to me like you believe a completely illogical and stupid thing.



I think I'll take your 'lessons' with a grain of salt.



A better analogy because you can answer that one. You can't answer this one. Because you know you're full of shit - because you DON'T want to outlaw sun-tanning, because you DON'T give a shit about tax dollars in health care for useless purposes. That was just an EXCUSE, and a piss-poor one at that since it doesn't even hold out.

Well whatever. You say you aren't here to debate, and that's good, since you lost.

wow sounds like someone's angry.

wow sounds like someone's angry.

doesn't sound like that to me :/
anyway, anger in no way invalidates comments made....

considering i fancy a toke again right now (haven't smoked in... ooh... 3 or 4 years), i'd say decriminalise it for posession, and licence sale.

that amongst other considerations, of course ;)

considering i fancy a toke again right now (haven't smoked in... ooh... 3 or 4 years), i'd say decriminalise it for posession, and licence sale.

that amongst other considerations, of course ;)

hehe
this thread has done good!

go have a smoke on us :)

wow, i feel so good about myself :/

..........

wow sounds like someone's angry.

Not really. After I realized I just spent a good five or ten minutes giving a detailed, point-by-point rebuttal of a post by an internet character with an apparently self-satirizing name, and that like the ugly slut at the bar all I'd get are a few pathetic one-liners, I just took a bong rip and realized that the egotistical amusement I get from watching myself type was worth it, even if you failed to deliver. And that is how I am free - personally and emotionally - from relying on the whims of strangers, particularly strangers online. Not that you might appreciate my appreciation of liberty, of course.

Not really. After I realized I just spent a good five or ten minutes giving a detailed, point-by-point rebuttal of a post by an internet character with an apparently self-satirizing name, and that like the ugly slut at the bar all I'd get are a few pathetic one-liners, I just took a bong rip and realized that the egotistical amusement I get from watching myself type was worth it, even if you failed to deliver. And that is how I am free - personally and emotionally - from relying on the whims of strangers, particularly strangers online. Not that you might appreciate my appreciation of liberty, of course.

hehehe
cheers to that!

I'm happy for you. Here, have a toke.

It's always good to be able to ... relax about things. To accept that some people are not going to agree with us, even when we seem to have such strong backing for our POV. That things will not always go right in life. Etc. And just not let it bother you too much.

Doesn't mean you should stop bothering to try. But it does mean you can stop getting upset when it doesnt go right :)

Im still waiting for someone to comment on my car accident observation.

Im still waiting for someone to comment on my car accident observation.
Wow, would you look at KoL's car accident observation, now that's bloody insightful, that is...
sorry didn't read it...
hehehe
cheers to that!

I'm happy for you. Here, have a toke.

It's always good to be able to ... relax about things. To accept that some people are not going to agree with us, even when we seem to have such strong backing for our POV. That things will not always go right in life. Etc. And just not let it bother you too much.

Doesn't mean you should stop bothering to try. But it does mean you can stop getting upset when it doesnt go right :)

Sometimes I consider it a win if I can get people to see my point of view...

Wow, would you look at KoL's car accident observation, now that's bloody insightful, that is...
sorry didn't read it...


lol, I was mostly refering to (un)Intellegenstan, who is the main proponent of ZOMG I DNT WANTZ TO PAY FUR DER HEALTH EXPENSESE!!!!!

lol, I was mostly refering to (un)Intellegenstan, who is the main proponent of ZOMG I DNT WANTZ TO PAY FUR DER HEALTH EXPENSESE!!!!!

You didn't specify, so you got mine instead.
:D

lol, I was mostly refering to (un)Intellegenstan, who is the main proponent of ZOMG I DNT WANTZ TO PAY FUR DER HEALTH EXPENSESE!!!!!

heh. Your comment was indeed a good example, but I kinda discounted it as Intelligenstan seems unaffected by strong arguments using good logic, hard facts, and convincing examples ;p

Sometimes I consider it a win if I can get people to see my point of view...

how do you mean?
I understand what I think you mean, but it doesn't make sense with what I think you're responding to... erm... so just... could you explain please? ;p
I know I'm probably just being stupid... don't judge me too harshly.... :/ *puppy dog eyes*

how do you mean?
I understand what I think you mean, but it doesn't make sense with what I think you're responding to... erm... so just... could you explain please? ;p
I know I'm probably just being stupid... don't judge me too harshly.... :/ *puppy dog eyes*

Gah! You're stupid!!!! :p

Seriously, though...

In one discussion I was in it took me the majority of the discussion to even get through to the people on the other side what I was actually saying.

*pats MrB's head*
"good doggy."

Gah! You're stupid!!!! :p

Seriously, though...

In one discussion I was in it took me the majority of the discussion to even get through to the people on the other side what I was actually saying.

*pats MrB's head*
"good doggy."

you killed my self confidanz :(

you mean, you consider it a win if you can even get people to understand what you're trying to say?
;p

you're obviously just vastly more intelligent than anyone else on these forums
;p
hmm.... that was sarcasm. but on the other hand I'm not trying to suggest that you're not intelligent.
My sarcasm confuses me :(
it gets out of hand sometimes.
Well... like... always.
oh well.

you mean, you consider it a win if you can even get people to understand what you're trying to say?

Sometimes, yes...

you mean, you consider it a win if you can even get people to understand what you're trying to say?


Considering recent debates him and I have been involved in like the (Christianity and Women one) you would be shocked to know how hard that can be, right Dya?

Considering recent debates him and I have been involved in like the (Christianity and Women one) you would be shocked to know how hard that can be, right Dya?

That would be the one that I was referring to...

Only the rather naive argue that smoking cannabis is harmless. That’s not the point. Why should I be prevented from partaking in an activity that has a potential to cause me some harm, when there are thousands, if not millions, of legal activities that have the potential to cause harm?

Again I ask: do you wish to prohibit the consumption of cheese?Perfect. I don't think the government needs to tell us what to put in our bodies. Besides, the drug war is bad for all of us. Unless you make a living via the bogus drug war.

Considering recent debates him and I have been involved in like the (Christianity and Women one) you would be shocked to know how hard that can be, right Dya?

heh, I followed them.... not everything, but parts
Don't have the time to sit and read 50 pages of debate :/ tis why I don't comment...coz when I've got something to say either the debate has moved on by 50 pages from where I had something to reply to, or I can't reply to what's at the end because I don't know if what I wanna say has been discussed before in the bit I can't read.... lol... but I have been reading ;p

There really isn't one. Their reasoning is that they place marijuana on a level with cocaine, methamphetamines, LSD, etc. Since they do that, they won't even consider the possibility (despite medical research) that it is medically beneficial.

I'd like to note that cocaine and methamphetamine can be and are still being used legitimately in the medical field. Cannabis is actually classified as being worse then those.

I'll say something that most of you will probably laugh at me for but since 1) it's the internet and 2) I don't care about your opinions it won't really matter. I do hope it causes some of you to stop and consider, well, I don't know, a lot of things. Maybe how you treat drugs, how you treat others around you, how you treat yourself and your own life--I don't know.

In short, psychedelic drugs, including cannabis, changed my life. I went from always suicidal to thriving and enjoying life thanks almost entirely to them.

In high school, I was a "good kid", at least on the surface. I wouldn't drink, but I'd do other things for fun that would have put me in prison. I have always been a good-hearted and compassionate person at my core but unless you're bipolar, you can't understand how your own personality can be overcome by something else until you're turned into a bitter, hate-filled machine that doesn't care for others, and not even for itself, and that lives only to see others suffer. I was nice on occasion, and even to my friends, but I became heavily involved in the neo-nazi scene near my home--something I deeply regret to this day. That's just the tip of the iceberg and I really don't want to go into it further. I enjoyed having people be afraid of me, stepping out of my way when I passed, and whispering behind my back. The day of my graduation from high school, I had a breakdown and attempted suicide. I was 18. After that, most of that bad stuff fell by the wayside. I normalized a little bit and started to think that maybe what I was doing wasn't really the way.

I drank a little bit my first semester at university, then drank a lot to the end that people wouldn't buy for me anymore. I had another breakdown after I turned 19 and was finally formally diagnosed with bipolar disorder. Unfortunately the psychiatrist I saw was a university doctor that was, I suppose, swamped with bureaucracy and other kids, and I didn't want to take medicine (I didn't believe him anyway) so I lied and manipulated my way out of it very well. Enter another breakdown after my first year at school during summer, about the same time as the first one. (You'd think I'd have learned by then, heh.) Finally, I ended up seeing another set of doctors/psychologists/psychiatrists and got a final diagnosis, with ADD added. I was put on meds for a while; none of them helped (especially with the depression) and I usually ended up feeling worse which depressed me further.

I was suicidal most of my third semester here. One night I walked out to a very high building intending to jump off but the doors were locked so I just broke down in tears in front of it until someone came by and I had to leave. About halfway through the semester, though, I found a friend that introduced me to cannabis and I began to smoke a little bit. It helped me so much more than the prescription medications. I had gone off of the Abilify before I met him and was, obviously, having a few issues. Cannabis solved, or at least mitigated, all of them to the extent that I would not have trouble going to sleep, wouldn't have nightmares, wouldn't need 14 hours of sleep, wouldn't be hypomanic, etc. I was a little worried about it because I heard that psychedelic drugs can cause schizophrenia to manifest itself early if it is already prevalent in the user.

I was so happy with the success I had made with cannabis self-therapy that I tried LSD as well. The first time I took LSD wasn't very incredible other than the novelty thereof, but I noticed that after I took it, I didn't need to smoke to ward off depression anymore. Further trips caused me to confront a lot of psychological issues that I have had in the past and allowed me to resolve them in a safe state of mind. My favorite thing about it is that it prevents any automatic rationalization or justification as is normally present in the sober state, allowing you to deconstruct systems and modes of pathological thinking and see the "way out".

I don't smoke as much as I used to. I still trip sometimes but not as much too. I am off of medication and I have not had a single relapse since I began using psychedelic drugs. I really don't know any other way to say it than that they *do* have some curative properties of some sort. I underwent something almost exactly like a shamanic initiation and was cured in the same way. It is an experience or set of experiences that makes me think that maybe there is something more to the universe and "drugs" and vegetative mysticism than meets the eye. At the very least, psychedelic plants have given me new perspective on life. I wake up happy to be alive--not just happy, but I feel PRIVILEGED and gifted to be alive. I have overcome my pathology toward other people; I have been able to interact with others like I never have been able to in my life. I don't have social anxiety and panic attacks like before. I feel the same compassion that I did before pop up for others but now I don't feel compelled to suppress it. I can freely love others and can allow others to love me too. I still have issues, as does everyone else, but I have undergone a complete transformation. People from high school don't even recognize me anymore.

Finding cannabis was the best thing that ever happened to me in my entire life.

As a closing note, I would like to offer a word of caution, however. I think that these drugs really *can* cause psychosis to manifest itself. My friend's roommate, already a little weird before he began smoking, *did* develop schizophrenia after a few years of chronic cannabis smoking. Only a couple months ago he had to drop out of the university and he is living at home, medicated but still pretty batty. I feel very sorry for him--I feel even worse because these drugs changed my life so much for the better when they did the exact opposite for him. Just remember that every coin has two sides, and be careful.

Peace.

By the way, as an addendum, I think that the most transformative aspect of the psychedelics are not directly physical but a meditative and entirely self-aware state of mind in which they put someone. It's very odd standing in the shower, high, and suddenly having ideas rocket into your head so much so that you have to wonder if it is really you thinking those thoughts. "The universe is love. Love others, love yourself." "You are a good person on the inside--good and bad--don't do what you're doing to yourself and those around you." "People hurt each other because they're afraid; you can help. You don't need to fear."

I don't understand why this occurs. I just know that it has for me and it has definitely changed my life. It is something so experiential that I simply cannot deny it. Were it reason, I could justify it. Were it another person's experience, I could dismiss it. But it is a direct experience I, myself, have undergone and it has happened in such a way that I cannot deny its reality.

I am a wiser, happier, more loving, and more balanced person for having taken psychedelics.

I would be happier to answer questions in PMs if anyone has any, by the way.

((just see above))

Very interesting. I'm sorry you went through all that s**t, and yes I do understand. I know all about the self destructive urges, and how you just lose yourself and become something you hate without, seemingly, any control over it...
And I'm very glad you got through this.
And a very unique viewpoint you've added to this debate! Thank you for sharing :)
Anyone that's strong enough to correct their own mistakes, can make up for almost any wrong's they've done. There are few things which are truly unforgivable.
It takes so much more, to go so low and then raise yourself again, than it does to never sink in the first place. Staying on top is, relatively, easy.

I guess for me, weed reminded me that it was possible to experience happiness at all. Lol. I had about 2 days total, of feeling good, in about half a year. Friends, councilling, pills, etc, didn't help. I'm not in any way claiming weed cured my depression... It's not cured, and overdoing weed does NOT help your mental state. Although once it got to the point that I wasn't really enjoying it anymore, I just kinda stopped. Went back to boozing for a bit :D now I enjoy a healthy mix of the two.
But weed certainly got me through, and helped me out. As sinnland said, if you haven't experienced it, you'll never know what it's like. I was very suicidal for that half year, the only reason I didn't was that I couldn't cause that much hurt to my family. But to me, my life was very much not worth living, even though I was well aware that feeling like this was unlikely to last forever.
When you're feeling that low for so long, it's good to find something... anything... that helps.

Word, thanks for the addition, MrBobby.

Im still waiting for someone to comment on my car accident observation.

lol, I was mostly refering to (un)Intellegenstan, who is the main proponent of ZOMG I DNT WANTZ TO PAY FUR DER HEALTH EXPENSESE!!!!!

Oh, sorry I didn't know that was directed at me.

I have a question to everyone who says "ZOMGZ I DNT WANTZ TO PAY FUR PEOPLE WHO GET TEH CANCER WHEN THERE DOING POT!!!11!!1!"


You already pay for peoples health insurance in countries with socialized medicine when they do reckless things.


Im speeding. I hit someone else's car when Im speeding. I break my leg. You pay for it.

So your arguement holds no water.

I don't see how this shows that my argument holds no water. I actually think you strengthen my point. Speeding is a perfect example of something that is illegal (as fun as it may be to do) for the same reason.

Im still waiting for someone to comment on my car accident observation.

There's also the fact that EVERY person who has said any variation of "OMGWTFBBQ!!!!!!11!!!one!! If you smoke weed your gonna get lung cancer!" has failed to comment on my point about people who EAT their weed (I've even heard of people drinking it as tea or extracting it with alcohol and drinking that). I've yet to hear of any cancer correlation with weed that is consumed by methods other than smoking.

Oh, sorry I didn't know that was directed at me.



I don't see how this shows that my argument holds no water. I actually think you strengthen my point. Speeding is a perfect example of something that is illegal (as fun as it may be to do) for the same reason.

*sigh*
because you already pay for things that are other peoples fault, including harm from marijuana (although yet again, costs from marijuana are tiny, if it's legal....)
and couple that with the fact that use would not increase, if it were legalised, means that you're not paying anything differant, even if you refuse to believe the bit about how all that money that's been spent, is being spent persecuting users..
which results in you saving all your precious tax money ;p


@ everyone else 'cept intell
Do you notice that people always seem to use 'my tax money' as a reason that they should control what the government/other people do? 'why should I pay for xxx'
dunno... i can't remember what point i was gonna make. I'll let you know if it comes back after I've had some sleep.

Nightnight all.

There's also the fact that EVERY person who has said any variation of "OMGWTFBBQ!!!!!!11!!!one!! If you smoke weed your gonna get lung cancer!" has failed to comment on my point about people who EAT their weed (I've even heard of people drinking it as tea or extracting it with alcohol and drinking that). I've yet to hear of any cancer correlation with weed that is consumed by methods other than smoking.

none of the people posting in this thread who are against legalisation, have actually responded to all the best counter arguments to their points, far as I can see ;p

Very interesting. I'm sorry you went through all that s**t, and yes I do understand. I know all about the self destructive urges, and how you just lose yourself and become something you hate without, seemingly, any control over it...
And I'm very glad you got through this.

Me too for both of you.

One question though, are you willing to accept that perhaps it isn't the marijuana at all that caused your lives to change but simply the fact that what you both describe are the throes of puberty and the issues that come with adolescence and that actually you simply matured?

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that you don't do some profound examination when stoned. Sometimes you do, when you aren't focused completely on cookies. ;) But what you describe is equally comparable to many descriptions of the epiphany of maturity. The "OMG I get the meaning of life and it doesn't suck like I thought it did" or "hey there is no reason to hate myself and the world, love is a better way!". Because whether you are aware of it or not lots of people who have never gotten high at all have the same type revelations. Usually somewhere between age 18 and 26.

Whatever we do we need to SPEND LESS MONEY on it.

There's also the fact that EVERY person who has said any variation of "OMGWTFBBQ!!!!!!11!!!one!! If you smoke weed your gonna get lung cancer!" has failed to comment on my point about people who EAT their weed (I've even heard of people drinking it as tea or extracting it with alcohol and drinking that). I've yet to hear of any cancer correlation with weed that is consumed by methods other than smoking.

I don't know if you are including me in your statement, but I did point out that our government is trying hard to eradicate cigarette smoking in the name of health, it seems idiotic for it to take up the marijuana torch and promote something that contributes to poor health also.

I have yet to hear of anyone who would rather eat it than smoke it. A waste of good weed if you ask me since the affect is far less than when you smoke it. :(

I doubt there is any correlation to cancer with eating weed. The act of inhaling smoke is the issue. So if we just outlaw smoking it and you can only eat it are you cool with that? ;)

I don't know if you are including me in your statement, but I did point out that our government is trying hard to eradicate cigarette smoking in the name of health, it seems idiotic for it to take up the marijuana torch and promote something that contributes to poor health also.

I have yet to hear of anyone who would rather eat it than smoke it. A waste of good weed if you ask me since the affect is far less than when you smoke it. :(

I doubt there is any correlation to cancer with eating weed. The act of inhaling smoke is the issue. So if we just outlaw smoking it and you can only eat it are you cool with that? ;)

the government won't ban smoking because of the tax, it's essentially a false front they're putting on.
This and the fact that I don't think it's morally correct what they're doing anyway.
To educate people about the harms, and to try and convince them to stop, and to offer them as much help as you can should they choose to, yes.
To brainwash people into thinking smoking makes you a bad person and lower everyones opinion, try and make it socially unacceptable... iunno, i dont think it's right.
I don't think the effect is less?? differant, but not less.
Vaporisers are how it is administered as a medical treatment.

I don't see how this shows that my argument holds no water. I actually think you strengthen my point. Speeding is a perfect example of something that is illegal (as fun as it may be to do) for the same reason.

Not my point.

Ok, Ill try another one...

Lets say pot becomes legal. This is why the ZOMG I dont want to pay for people who do risky actions health insurance!!! is a shit arguement.

Its dark out at night. Im wearing all black. I cross the street wearing all black (those 2 things together are a high risk action, neither of which are illegal). A car hits me. I survive, but require medical attention.


Im still covered. I took a risky yet legal action, but am still covered.

Another one.

Im walking home at night in the city. Im on some gang's "turf" and am wearing the wrong colors, unbeknownst to me. They shoot at me. I am hit in the leg, nothing fatal. I still get covered medically, even though I took a risky action.

Why is doing poit (if it was legal) any different than the above two?

oh, so having some pothead deal to your friends and family is much better than kicking a drunk guy off your front lawn. Having 30+ year old potheads who sit on their ass like 17 year olds is so much better

I'd rather have some drunk guy jump OUT a window onto the pavement and go splat than have a pothead jump IN a window looking for quick money for their next hit.

The only good thing about potheads is that they are much more entertaining to point and laugh at when they are wasted on their stuff

If it was only kicking a drunk guy off my lawn i would agree but saddly its not. i know many who smoke pot and many who drink alcohol and a small number who do both. Most of these are in control and only drink weekend etc when they can deal with the effect without impact into there work and personal life. Out of the addicts of each group, it the alcoholic which commit the more violent and anti-social crimes. While pot-head are more likely to be dealers, if pot was legalize this problem would change. I have never met a pure pot head who has dne any breaking and entering though have met a few other smack heads etc who have.

Legal age limits?
Education?
yes just like we have for alcohol and fags

[/QUOTE]Ive seen kids barely in their teens hooked on marijuana, and their being that young means they are young, restless and arrogant,
Them being of those ages already makes them hard to control and educate, but get them on marijuana only triples that problem[/QUOTE]
or any mood changing drug including alcohol, if it was legal it be harder for children to get hold of.



[/QUOTE]Ive seen 13+ year old girls hook up with 35 year old men, and give them sex in exchange for drugs or money to buy them,
Ive seen guys struggle through school and have to sign up for the army because they lack proper education to get normal jobs[/QUOTE]
For pot? really? well i seen it on harder drugs but never with pot. Are you sure there just plain pot heads or have they gone on to harder drugs as only then in my experance dose this happen


[/QUOTE]Users who are almost 30 and still living with their parents, and sponging support from them,......marriages on the rocks because the partner who uses is too relaxed about real-life issues in the relationship,....guys getting stoned and trying to cook, only to pass out and nearly burn their place down,...not to mention stoners who get into assault charges because when they're high, they cant keep their temper in check.[/QUOTE]
Again take pot out of this and add alcohol. no change!

[/QUOTE]Would you mind 'educating' them for me?[/QUOTE]
O.K

There is no medical link between smoking marijuana and lung cancer.

This is an established medical fact.

http://www.news-medical.net/?id=18122

Yeah but i dont see Alcoholics or Tobacco Smokers becoming lazy retards who sit on their ass all day playing console games, and that think playing music loud enough to be heard down the block fits within acceptable noise control limits

Soooo, have you ever met a cannabis user...me thinks not...It is obvious that you have fallen prey to the bull-shit propaganda machine...Enjoy your sad little world, I don't need people with twisted information (thinking it has something to do with reality) in mine, thank you very much.

BTW, I skipped most of this thread, did anyone mention that the legalization of marijuana, if combined with the legalization of industrial hemp, would solve all of societies modern problems? (well, except for the stupid people, only education/sterilization will solve that one IMHO:headbang:)

PelecanusQuicks: I suppose that could be the case. However I've experienced too many other weird things that fall outside of that category to consider it too in-depth. It's too simplistic an explanation and leaves so much more to be elucidated.

PelecanusQuicks: I suppose that could be the case. However I've experienced too many other weird things that fall outside of that category to consider it too in-depth. It's too simplistic an explanation and leaves so much more to be elucidated.

I see that you're chilling with the machine elves. Are they 'real'?

In Canada at least, a marijuana habit is significantly cheaper than drinking. Few people I know would ever smoke more than a gram in a given day-10$. Not many people spend as little as 10$ on a night drinking.

I imagine there would be a significant tax on legal marijuana, and this would offset the economy producers would gain by post-legalization scale

I also imagine it would act as a great stimulus economy, not only in tourism but also because, let's face it, while these stoners are "sitting on their asses all day" they're munching on Doritos. Lots of Doritos.

Personally, i dont use it..but, if the government can somehow tax and control the growing of marijuana then i see no reason not to legalize it. People are gonna find away to do it..legal or not..so why not make some money off of it..and face it, theres alot more dangerous drugs out there..;)

There is no medical link between smoking marijuana and lung cancer.

This is an established medical fact.

http://www.news-medical.net/?id=18122

Interesting, this has since been published and should be considered I think.


The failure to find a marijuana-lung cancer link may have been due to methodological flaws in existing research, rather than the absence of such a link, the researchers say. Doctors should advise their patients that marijuana does indeed have potential adverse effects, they conclude, including causing precancerous changes in the lungs.

SOURCE: Archives of Internal Medicine, July 10, 2006.

http://www.upmccancercenters.com/news/reuters/reuters.cfm?article=7599

I'll say something that most of you will probably laugh at me for but since 1) it's the internet and 2) I don't care about your opinions it won't really matter. I do hope it causes some of you to stop and consider, well, I don't know, a lot of things. Maybe how you treat drugs, how you treat others around you, how you treat yourself and your own life--I don't know.

In short, psychedelic drugs, including cannabis, changed my life. I went from always suicidal to thriving and enjoying life thanks almost entirely to them.

In high school, I was a "good kid", at least on the surface. I wouldn't drink, but I'd do other things for fun that would have put me in prison. I have always been a good-hearted and compassionate person at my core but unless you're bipolar, you can't understand how your own personality can be overcome by something else until you're turned into a bitter, hate-filled machine that doesn't care for others, and not even for itself, and that lives only to see others suffer. I was nice on occasion, and even to my friends, but I became heavily involved in the neo-nazi scene near my home--something I deeply regret to this day. That's just the tip of the iceberg and I really don't want to go into it further. I enjoyed having people be afraid of me, stepping out of my way when I passed, and whispering behind my back. The day of my graduation from high school, I had a breakdown and attempted suicide. I was 18. After that, most of that bad stuff fell by the wayside. I normalized a little bit and started to think that maybe what I was doing wasn't really the way.

I drank a little bit my first semester at university, then drank a lot to the end that people wouldn't buy for me anymore. I had another breakdown after I turned 19 and was finally formally diagnosed with bipolar disorder. Unfortunately the psychiatrist I saw was a university doctor that was, I suppose, swamped with bureaucracy and other kids, and I didn't want to take medicine (I didn't believe him anyway) so I lied and manipulated my way out of it very well. Enter another breakdown after my first year at school during summer, about the same time as the first one. (You'd think I'd have learned by then, heh.) Finally, I ended up seeing another set of doctors/psychologists/psychiatrists and got a final diagnosis, with ADD added. I was put on meds for a while; none of them helped (especially with the depression) and I usually ended up feeling worse which depressed me further.

I was suicidal most of my third semester here. One night I walked out to a very high building intending to jump off but the doors were locked so I just broke down in tears in front of it until someone came by and I had to leave. About halfway through the semester, though, I found a friend that introduced me to cannabis and I began to smoke a little bit. It helped me so much more than the prescription medications. I had gone off of the Abilify before I met him and was, obviously, having a few issues. Cannabis solved, or at least mitigated, all of them to the extent that I would not have trouble going to sleep, wouldn't have nightmares, wouldn't need 14 hours of sleep, wouldn't be hypomanic, etc. I was a little worried about it because I heard that psychedelic drugs can cause schizophrenia to manifest itself early if it is already prevalent in the user.

I was so happy with the success I had made with cannabis self-therapy that I tried LSD as well. The first time I took LSD wasn't very incredible other than the novelty thereof, but I noticed that after I took it, I didn't need to smoke to ward off depression anymore. Further trips caused me to confront a lot of psychological issues that I have had in the past and allowed me to resolve them in a safe state of mind. My favorite thing about it is that it prevents any automatic rationalization or justification as is normally present in the sober state, allowing you to deconstruct systems and modes of pathological thinking and see the "way out".

I don't smoke as much as I used to. I still trip sometimes but not as much too. I am off of medication and I have not had a single relapse since I began using psychedelic drugs. I really don't know any other way to say it than that they *do* have some curative properties of some sort. I underwent something almost exactly like a shamanic initiation and was cured in the same way. It is an experience or set of experiences that makes me think that maybe there is something more to the universe and "drugs" and vegetative mysticism than meets the eye. At the very least, psychedelic plants have given me new perspective on life. I wake up happy to be alive--not just happy, but I feel PRIVILEGED and gifted to be alive. I have overcome my pathology toward other people; I have been able to interact with others like I never have been able to in my life. I don't have social anxiety and panic attacks like before. I feel the same compassion that I did before pop up for others but now I don't feel compelled to suppress it. I can freely love others and can allow others to love me too. I still have issues, as does everyone else, but I have undergone a complete transformation. People from high school don't even recognize me anymore.

Finding cannabis was the best thing that ever happened to me in my entire life.

As a closing note, I would like to offer a word of caution, however. I think that these drugs really *can* cause psychosis to manifest itself. My friend's roommate, already a little weird before he began smoking, *did* develop schizophrenia after a few years of chronic cannabis smoking. Only a couple months ago he had to drop out of the university and he is living at home, medicated but still pretty batty. I feel very sorry for him--I feel even worse because these drugs changed my life so much for the better when they did the exact opposite for him. Just remember that every coin has two sides, and be careful.

Peace.

thats very interesting. i had quite the opposite experience, and, like your friend, ended up dropping out to live back home on meds.

weed, for me, certainly did mask the psychological problems i was going through at university, but whenever i wasn't high the crippling depression would come back. i'd usually make sure i had a spliff for first thing in the morning, and i'd certainly go to bed high (and usually drunk)

however the weed and the booze (and E) just hid the problems from me, and i know now that this did me no favours. i wasn't able to get over or deal with any of my problems if i just kept covering them up. it also heightened social anxieties as i would get seriously paranoid (to coin an overused term) about people noticing i was stoned and/or drunk. this would carry over to when i was out and about, sober, and just got worse as time went on.

i still have problems, 4 or 5 years on, and am still on meds, but at least now i know what my problems are and am able to tackle them. but i'm glad something worked out for you :)


btw, i had always wanted to try LSD, but decided not to after trying shrooms for the first time. the trip was ok until i suddenly found myself lying at the bottom of a deep, dark pit, looking back up at the room i was in (out of body experience), unable to move, with things crawling around under my back. i've never been so terrified in all my life. eventually i tore myself away, threw up, got into a different room and largely passed out. never again :p

edit: for the record though, i was suffering from some kind of depression (dysthimia i guess) before i went to uni and started smoking pot. i was drawn to it because of my problems; it did not create them... it only made them worse (for me) by hiding them.

In related news, some company in CA selling legal weed might be sued over their "Tom Cruise Purple" variety, by Tom Cruise. Apparently he doesn't find it flattering.

http://content.ytmnd.com/content/8/a/f/8af4bea48ece00c1f36cf14c5996b10a.jpg

Not my point.

Ok, Ill try another one...

Lets say pot becomes legal. This is why the ZOMG I dont want to pay for people who do risky actions health insurance!!! is a shit arguement.

Its dark out at night. Im wearing all black. I cross the street wearing all black (those 2 things together are a high risk action, neither of which are illegal). A car hits me. I survive, but require medical attention.


Im still covered. I took a risky yet legal action, but am still covered.


Um, actually I think there is some law that if you're riding a bike or something you have to wear light-reflectors? (I might be wrong). Anyways, It's why cars are required to have lights. All these measures to prevent the above case are taken (that are enforcable - like requiring or banning certain things).
Similarly, you must wear a seatbelt while riding a car. It's really fun to ride without a seatbelt on, and even more - you're not even harming anyone else by doing it! (unlike marijuana in this way).

Another one.

Im walking home at night in the city. Im on some gang's "turf" and am wearing the wrong colors, unbeknownst to me. They shoot at me. I am hit in the leg, nothing fatal. I still get covered medically, even though I took a risky action.

Why is doing poit (if it was legal) any different than the above two?

well, I don't see a real way to enforce a law that would change the above situation.
And pot is different as I had said because you also harm others. +It's something that can easily be made illegal, and is a more risky risk that reaps more benefits than doing the above, hence much more common.

And pot is different as I had said because you also harm others.

Do you have brain damage?

I have never heard of a logical argument for why it should not be legal. Add to that it makes me feel all good and happy inside and you see why my position is that it is should be 100% legal.

Taking away the possibility to make huge amounts of money from criminal organizations is the best argument for legalization.

The right to do to your own body what you want is another issue. The issue of how far a government can interfere with our lives. If they marijuana is banned for this reason, then they should also ban faith healers.

I've been a successful person, smoking on a daily basis (after work) for more than twenty years. When I travel I don't smoke and don't miss it. Totally different from tobacco.

Legalization allows regulation!

Only if heroin/morphine is legalized would I support legalizing marijuana. I've never smoked marijuana and have no idea what its effects and drawbacks are, but the prices I pay for codeine are a crime on par with denying a pothead his/her fix - not that either are too terrible beyond the rather frustrating inconvenience, but you get the idea.

Morphine IS legalized; it's just controlled.

Morphine IS legalized; it's just controlled.

So is marijuana, at least here (California). You can possess it legally with a card, which is apparently easy enough to get that high school kids have them. :p No, I want the real deal, OTC, not the 5mg hydrocodone/500mg asprin destroy-your-liver bullshit that I have to pay far too much for. Deregulation might be the better word, but it amounts to the same thing. And of course, getting caught with non-perscription morphine is a hell of a lot worse than getting caught with pot.