NationStates Jolt Archive

With all the recent uproar and debate over Tibet, the Beijing Olympics, Human rights and Potential boycotts the Chinese government and others have repeatedly stated that the Olympics are only a sporting event and shouldn't be mixed with politics.

This idea that "The Olympics are only a sporting event and have no place for politics" seems like complete BS to me. How can you not politicize such a high-profile event, where every country in the world competes to see who is the best and the entire world is watching? Also, it's not like China is being singled out. Past Olympics have been politicized and even boycotted due to politics. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_in_the_Olympics)

So I want to know what the wise people of NSG think of this issue and my mini-rant.

Stuff that is Wicked Relevant:
Link 1 (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gIml7y9SWU9cNA9o_rpjMrrB_9LwD8VON87G2)
Link 2 (http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/opinon/2008/03/137_21683.html)
Link 3 (http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/talk-of-the-day/talk-of-the-day/2008/03/whats-the-role-of-politics-in-the-olympic-games/)

*bump*

Poll Added...

Anyone who tries to politicize the Olympics are just petty grandstanders wanting some undue attention, people watch the Olympics for sport, nuff said.

Enough of the Tibetan whinebaggery.

FREE MUMIA

oh wait, wrong thread...

FREE MUMIA

oh wait, wrong topic...

Free Abkhazia!
Free Nagorno-Karabakh!
Free Somaliland!
Free South Ossetia!
Free Transnistria!

With all the recent uproar and debate over Tibet, the Beijing Olympics, Human rights and Potential boycotts the Chinese government and others have repeatedly stated that the Olympics are only a sporting event and shouldn't be mixed with politics.

This idea that "The Olympics are only a sporting event and have no place for politics" seems like complete BS to me. How can you not politicize such a high-profile event, where every country in the world competes to see who is the best and the entire world is watching? Also, it's not like China is being singled out. Past Olympics have been politicized and even boycotted due to politics. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_in_the_Olympics)

So I want to know what the wise people of NSG think of this issue and my mini-rant.



Like John Keynes said about how one can't reason that if something is done before successfully justify it to be appropriate and healthy. America had boycotted USSR's Olympic doesn't mean it was appropriate but actually very inappropriate. Olympics belong to athletes, politics have no right to steal their lifelong dream with hard trainning away espicially when they have no say in it.

Yes, you can politicising it but it's a form of an abuse of the event. I think its very difficult for any of us to imagine the level of dedication of athletes and then hijack their spotlight in that moment. If there's a disturbance in the actual time of the event, it can jeopardize not only the atmosphere of the event but ruining athletes' chance of success.

Besides holding the Olympic hostage with politics is a clear poor and immature move. You might get sympathy from a few, but there's certainly won't make any difference over the issue. Only the worst would follow if the Olympics get cancelled. If anyone understand Chinese politics will show you those who are escalating this event is not helping it but worsening it. There's no good reason to take such move but I guess the Tibetan Youth League are quite young and really need to blow off some of their excessive energy. (joke)

Free Abkhazia!
Free Nagorno-Karabakh!
Free Somaliland!
Free South Ossetia!
Free Transnistria!

Free Sealand!
Free America!

Past Olympics have been politicized and even boycotted due to politics.
Yeah, and they totally sucked as a result. Keep politics out of these olympics, please. It's for the best.

Free Sealand!
Free America!

Is that both north and south or just one? In anycase i'll take them both.

Yes, it should get politicized but not at the expense of the sports, boycotting is going too far.

If I was going there I'd bring t-shirts with texts in English and Chinese, texts like "In the west the people gets to choose their rulers.", "Western governments don't censor the news." or "In the west we can practice any religion we want.".

Is that both north and south or just one? In anycase i'll take them both.

Actually, I said 'America' not 'the Americas'. But you can't have them anyway unless you intend to free them.

Yes, it should get politicized but not at the expense of the sports, boycotting is going too far.

If I was going there I'd bring t-shirts with texts in English and Chinese, texts like "In the west the people gets to choose their rulers.", "Western governments don't censor the news." or "In the west we can practice any religion we want.".
That's what I mean, people like you are the height of crude nationalism and arrogance.

Maybe a 'IN THE WEST THE RICH CHOOSE OUR RULERS!' would be better?

Why shouldn't the Tibetans use something where the entire world is watching China to try and win attention? After all, America (*cough* in China's pocket *cough*) doesn't seem to care and the most the rest of the West does is grumble about human rights and what-not. They deserve freedom, and they have every right to use this opportunity to further their cause.

Besides, the entire Olympics is one big political posturing event, anyway; the whole point is to prove which country is superior (nowadays).

That's what I mean, people like you are the height of crude nationalism and arrogance.

Maybe a 'IN THE WEST THE RICH CHOOSE OUR RULERS!' would be better?

No, its not that the Rich choose our rulers...its just theyre the only choices, lol...

Its a small step better than theirs, for in China the Rulers are the Rich by default...

Why shouldn't the Tibetans use something where the entire world is watching China to try and win attention?
Because they don't merit any kind of voice when they attack people for being Chinese of origin, now, do they?
Besides, the entire Olympics is one big political posturing event, anyway; the whole point is to prove which country is superior (nowadays).
Err, no, you're wrong. It's a sporting event, and a chance for British architects to make large amounts of money from the rest of the world. It's absolutely not a political event.

I propose a new event, beat a Tibetan.

Alright, i have a solution to all of this...

See what we need is Anarchy, then we wouldnt have these fucking Olympics to argue about :sniper::upyours: lol ;)

I propose a new event, beat a Tibetan.

The arrogance and apalling apathy of the West continues to amaze me...

That's what I mean, people like you are the height of crude nationalism and arrogance.
Yes I know it is arrogant to think the political system in one's home country is better than the political systems in other countries, so I'm arrogant then.
Maybe a 'IN THE WEST THE RICH CHOOSE OUR RULERS!' would be better?
Good point, I'd have to replace "the west" with "Scandinavia" in those quotes since money plays such a major role in politics in some other democracies.

On second thought I went about it the entirely wrong way, it doesn't matter at all what other countries do. The texts should say stuff like "Do you get to elect your rulers?", "Does your government sensor your news?" or "Can you practice any religion you want?".

In all seriousness though, wtf, We'll take out Iraq for takin Kuwait, but stop China from killing Tibet...hell no...makes no fucking sense...SOMETHING should be done about it...

In all seriousness though, wtf, We'll take out Iraq for takin Kuwait
No, no we didn't. We killed off quite a lot of their army for taking Kuwait, then went back home. Don't mix what went on in 1991 and what went on in 2002/2003. Quite different wars launched for quite different reasons.
but stop China from killing Tibet...hell no...makes no fucking sense...SOMETHING should be done about it...
The Tibetans are not our allies. The Kuwaitis are.

The majority of Tibetans do not want independence and reject the theocratic exile government.

If the olympics are going to be in China, then won't all the sports equpment be done up in lead base paint?

Anyone who tries to politicize the Olympics are just petty grandstanders wanting some undue attention, people watch the Olympics for sport, nuff said.

Enough of the Tibetan whinebaggery.

So the Soviet Union in 1984?

No, no we didn't. We killed off quite a lot of their army for taking Kuwait, then went back home. Don't mix what went on in 1991 and what went on in 2002/2003. Quite different wars launched for quite different reasons.

The Tibetans are not our allies. The Kuwaitis are.

I wasnt confusing shit, we sent them packing back to Baghdad in '91...completely different from the current occupation...


What i was saying is that we act like we're the World Police but when a country really does Criminal acts we dont do shit about it...

They shouldn't be, but it's fact that they are.

I wish they could be held in Greece every time, like it should be.

The majority of Tibetans do not want independence and reject the theocratic exile government.

Source?

Immolate for Independence!

I propose a new event, beat a Tibetan.

I propose a new event, Andaras stops calling for the abuse and death of people who don't kiss Stalin's zombie ass.

The arrogance and apalling apathy of the West continues to amaze me...

He's not one of us, we swear.

Source?

Источник? Мы не нуждаемся в источнике! Великолепная советская правда самоочевидна, Вы буржуазный капиталистический лакей свиньи!

I propose a new event, Andaras stops calling for the abuse and death of people who don't kiss Stalin's zombie ass.

Zombie ass...ew. It'd be all...fleshy, and rotten.

Источник? Мы не нуждаемся в источнике! Великолепная советская правда самоочевидна, Вы буржуазный капиталистический лакей свиньи!

I've actually taken some Russian but I still had to babelfish it.

In response: очень да.

Source?

Uh... how many Tibetans do you see running around on fire?

Seriously. How many burning Buddhists? If you aren't on fire, you don't want independence. I was pretty sure that was the general rule.

Источник? Мы не нуждаемся в источнике! Великолепная советская правда самоочевидна, Вы буржуазный капиталистический лакей свиньи!

Source? We do not need source! Splendid Soviet truth is self-evident, you the bourgeois capitalist footman of the pig

lolz

Uh... how many Tibetans do you see running around on fire?

Seriously. How many burning Buddhists? If you aren't on fire, you don't want independence. I was pretty sure that was the general rule.

What the hell? No wonder people were so pissed about the American Revolution! They were doing it wrong!

What the hell? No wonder people were so pissed about the American Revolution! They were doing it wrong!

I know, it isn't valid according to the laws set down by the Triad of 4chan in 1938 B.C.

Our only hope is to go back in time and set George Washington on fire, hoping the soldiers will follow suit.

I'm a bit of a purist. I would lay down ancient Greek rules on the Olympics if it were up to me. All wars would have to stop while the Olympics were going on and everyone would compete naked.

*slowly backs out of thread*

I'm a bit of a purist. I would lay down ancient Greek rules on the Olympics if it were up to me. All wars would have to stop while the Olympics were going on and everyone would compete naked.

*slowly backs out of thread*

*gets naked*
*throws javelin at West Corinthia*

I'm a bit of a purist. I would lay down ancient Greek rules on the Olympics if it were up to me. All wars would have to stop while the Olympics were going on and everyone would compete naked.

*slowly backs out of thread*

What about allowing women in? Greeks didnt allow women to compete or watch.

What about allowing women in? Greeks didnt allow women to compete or watch.
Some women snuck in anyway, so they instituted a rule that the audience had to be naked also.

Olympics are not meant to be politicized, but sadly some idiots think it's a good idea to politicize them. Olympics are a time to forget everything in the world and concentrate on sport.

"Everything's political."









Sorry for the one liner.;) It's one of my favorite lines from the X-files, and it ties in very nicely with my own philosophies of the world, and with this topic.

I find it laughable how many IOC members and China (and anyone else for that matter) try to claim the Olympics has nothing to do with politics.
If that's the case:
Why are all the athletes competing under their own country's flag?
Why are most of the world's leaders going along to watch, along with the chance to get a photo-op of themselves and some medal winners?
Why is so important to a country's ruling party to celebrate a gold-medal winner?
And, most important, why is China running around the world claiming that this Olympics will be a showcase for how advanced and wonderful their country is?

What about allowing women in? Greeks didnt allow women to compete or watch.
They'd never be able to have the games in the US again if they brought that rule back.

The Greeks had a seperate games for women, called the Hera Games. If they brought that back and had it naked, the ratings would be through the roof!

Sport in Olympic games is already a marginal part. The key issue are business and economy. So why shouldn't politics also be there?

Some women snuck in anyway, so they instituted a rule that the audience had to be naked also.

This would be going to be the ultimate gay fest.

This would be going to be the ultimate gay fest.
When I first read that, I thought it said 'ultimate gay fist', which works just as well as what you wrote. Just a bit ickier.

I find it laughable how many IOC members and China (and anyone else for that matter) try to claim the Olympics has nothing to do with politics.
If that's the case:
Why are all the athletes competing under their own country's flag?
Why are most of the world's leaders going along to watch, along with the chance to get a photo-op of themselves and some medal winners?
Why is so important to a country's ruling party to celebrate a gold-medal winner?
And, most important, why is China running around the world claiming that this Olympics will be a showcase for how advanced and wonderful their country is?

QFT

This would be going to be the ultimate gay fest.
They were Greeks, after all :p

And, most important, why is China running around the world claiming that this Olympics will be a showcase for how advanced and wonderful their country is?
This is why I love Chicago's bid for the 2016 Olympics. Chicago's bid is not a bid for the US or a nationalist based bid. It is a bid for civic pride. Chicagoans take civic pride very seriously. 115 years after the World Columbian Exposition of 1893, Chicagoans still talk about it. No one who attended that fair or was alive during it is around today, but Chicagoans still boast about the Palace of Fine Arts, Field Museum, Midway Plaisance, and the White City. Boasting about the past is something that is very Chicagoan. Bears fans still boast about 1985, Cub fans boast about 1908 and 1969, Bulls fans still talk of Jordan, and Sox fans are still living in 05.

Chicagoans are hoping the Olympics can be their 21st century fair. It is amazing to see how much investment is going on in the South Side in an attempt to ensure a successful bid. The once distressed neighborhoods like Washington Park and Douglas are making incredible an turn around thanks to the new investment. I am proud to see the South Side returning to its former glory of the early 20th century.

The bid is not about getting the US the Olympics. It is about giving a city some pride that it deserves. They don't call Chicago the Windy City because of the weather.;)

The majority of Tibetans do not want independence and reject the theocratic exile government.

Source s'il vous plait...

While the idea of a politically free olympics is appealing, it seems a bit naive to say that boycotting the games would be bringing politics into the Games. Its fairly inevitable that politics already infulence the games to certain extent anyway.
Thats said I think it would be a little unfair to demand that the competitors boycott the games when their goverments do nothing. When someone commits themselves to competing in the olympics and does the amount of trainning required for it, it would be a massive sacrifice to walk away from it. Thats especially the case in the sports where the athelets are primarily made up of amatuers like rowing.

Source s'il vous plait...

save your breath, I asked Andaras for a source right after he made that claim and he's basically disappeared.

save your breath, I asked Andaras for a source right after he made that claim and he's basically disappeared.

*saves breath*

OK, what do I get?

*saves breath*

OK, what do I get?

5% interest next month

5% interest next month

Yay! I get to breathe a bit more next month!

The Olympics are stupid and far too politicized. The more political posturing we introduce, the worse. Besides, what will boycotting over Tibet accomplish? Other than pissing people off more, that is. Don't ruin people's dreams so western politicians have another chance to mentally masturbate on film.

If, as the PRC claim, the Olympics ain't political then why are they going round arresting and imprisoning anyone who dares speak out against the Party in the run-up to the Olympics?
Jail for Chinese rights activist

A prominent activist who publicised human rights abuses across China has been convicted of subversion and jailed for three-and-a-half years.

Hu Jia, 34, was convicted of "inciting subversion of state power and the socialist system", his lawyer said.

He has long campaigned for the environment, religious freedom and for the rights of people with HIV and Aids.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7327718.stm

Olympics 'worsening China rights'

China's human rights record is getting worse, not better, because of the Beijing Olympics, a rights group says.

According to Amnesty International, China is clamping down on dissent in a bid to portray a stable and harmonious image ahead of the Games in August.

US President George W Bush is facing calls to boycott the Games' opening.

"It would be clearly inappropriate for you to attend the Olympic Games in China, given the increasingly repressive nature of that country's government," a group of 15 US politicians wrote in a letter to Mr Bush on Tuesday.

Mr Bush has said he plans to attend the ceremony but Germany's Angela Merkel says she will not. French President Nicolas Sarkozy has not ruled out a boycott.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7325754.stm
good on Merkel for making a stand there.

And that doesn't count the 're-education through labour' law that allows police to arrest, charge and imprison people for up to 3 years to hard labour without having to go through the court system. By all accounts, they've been in overdrive the past couple of years.
Also, the PRC decides and sets the number of activist groups which are allowed per region. To obtain a licence to be a recognised group, you need to prove to the Party you uphold their ideals. As a result, most licenced activist groups are a total sham. Further, anyone forming an unlicenced group is in immediate violation of the law and can/will be arrested. Any group that strays from the boundaries set by the PRC (to wit: sucking up to the PRC) can lose their licence and thus be declared illegal. It's one of the ways the PRC uses to control the local populace yet make it look like they're improving their rights record.


non-political my hairy white ass.

This is why I love Chicago's bid for the 2016 Olympics. Chicago's bid is not a bid for the US or a nationalist based bid. It is a bid for civic pride. Chicagoans take civic pride very seriously. 115 years after the World Columbian Exposition of 1893, Chicagoans still talk about it. No one who attended that fair or was alive during it is around today, but Chicagoans still boast about the Palace of Fine Arts, Field Museum, Midway Plaisance, and the White City. Boasting about the past is something that is very Chicagoan. Bears fans still boast about 1985, Cub fans boast about 1908 and 1969, Bulls fans still talk of Jordan, and Sox fans are still living in 05.

Chicagoans are hoping the Olympics can be their 21st century fair. It is amazing to see how much investment is going on in the South Side in an attempt to ensure a successful bid. The once distressed neighborhoods like Washington Park and Douglas are making incredible an turn around thanks to the new investment. I am proud to see the South Side returning to its former glory of the early 20th century.

The bid is not about getting the US the Olympics. It is about giving a city some pride that it deserves. They don't call Chicago the Windy City because of the weather.;)

Having the Olympics in Atlanta caused a huge growth spurt in this city and surrounding counties. Atlanta is much more international as a direct result also, so if you all get it get ready for some huge changes with the influx. :)

In many ways it was good for the city and in many ways it was terrible. The politics and bribery that went along with and worse was expected, when dealing with the Olympic officials greatly disillusioned many people here. Get the vaseline because the people who run the Olympics are pricks sadly.

Yes, it should get politicized but not at the expense of the sports, boycotting is going too far.

If I was going there I'd bring t-shirts with texts in English and Chinese, texts like "In the west the people gets to choose their rulers.", "Western governments don't censor the news." or "In the west we can practice any religion we want.".
Would you? :/

Enough of this shit. Tibet isn't getting freed, China won't let it happen regardless of whether they lose the olympics or not, it is just too damn important to them strategically. Besides, the entire 'free tibet' movement is just a shit sprinkler funded by USA and co. in order to undercut the chinese; their biggest rival which they simply cannot afford to openly attack or criticise. So they use the Dalai Lama to make them look bad. Tibet, and the Dalai are just pawns in what is effectively a power-play.

Enough of this shit. Tibet isn't getting freed, China won't let it happen regardless of whether they lose the olympics or not, it is just too damn important to them strategically. Besides, the entire 'free tibet' movement is just a shit sprinkler funded by USA and co. in order to undercut the chinese; their biggest rival which they simply cannot afford to openly attack or criticise. So they use the Dalai Lama to make them look bad. Tibet, and the Dalai are just pawns in what is effectively a power-play.

You know some tinfoil around your head will keep out the USA mind control rays!

Read the OP
o The Olympics should be politicized
o The Olympics shouldn't be politicized
o New Manvir, You're mini-rant has inspired me *worships*
o There is no Olympics
x There is no hope for anyone ever using apostrophes properly again

Also, where's the CowboyNeal option?

The arrogance and apalling apathy of the Left, when it comes to China or anything "red", continues to amaze me...
Fixed.


You know some tinfoil around your head will keep out the USA mind control rays!
WIN!

I find it laughable how many IOC members and China (and anyone else for that matter) try to claim the Olympics has nothing to do with politics.
If that's the case:
Why are all the athletes competing under their own country's flag?
Why are most of the world's leaders going along to watch, along with the chance to get a photo-op of themselves and some medal winners?
Why is so important to a country's ruling party to celebrate a gold-medal winner?
And, most important, why is China running around the world claiming that this Olympics will be a showcase for how advanced and wonderful their country is?

It more to do with nationalistic than politic. You don't see rebel fraction competing against their the proper government in Olympics. Even Taiwan has to play down its politics in order to enter Olympics, they have to be labelled chinese. The leaders are there not to represent their political body but their country. You won't see political leaders campaigning themselves in election by advertising their photos with the medal winners:P


Sport in Olympic games is already a marginal part. The key issue are business and economy. So why shouldn't politics also be there?

Because unlike the other two, politics can interrupt, threaten and distort the event's procession.

Source s'il vous plait...

Hard to prove the either side. You can't actually prove majority Tibetan in Tibet want independence by just the current media coverage. Firstly, most of the activity for Tibet Independence outside China are done by the Tibetan Youth League. It can easily be argued that these emigres' next generation is totally out of sync with the actual Tibetans in Tibet. Secondly, the protest happening in Tibet are done by a few compared to the entire population of Tibetans, or else the event would have been much greater and serious than now.

Neither can China prove Tibetan don't want independence as there no factual prove to back it up e.g. a referendum done by Tibetan votes.

If, as the PRC claim, the Olympics ain't political then why are they going round arresting and imprisoning anyone who dares speak out against the Party in the run-up to the Olympics?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7327718.stm


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7325754.stm
good on Merkel for making a stand there.

And that doesn't count the 're-education through labour' law that allows police to arrest, charge and imprison people for up to 3 years to hard labour without having to go through the court system. By all accounts, they've been in overdrive the past couple of years.
Also, the PRC decides and sets the number of activist groups which are allowed per region. To obtain a licence to be a recognised group, you need to prove to the Party you uphold their ideals. As a result, most licenced activist groups are a total sham. Further, anyone forming an unlicenced group is in immediate violation of the law and can/will be arrested. Any group that strays from the boundaries set by the PRC (to wit: sucking up to the PRC) can lose their licence and thus be declared illegal. It's one of the ways the PRC uses to control the local populace yet make it look like they're improving their rights record.


non-political my hairy white ass.

In restropective wise, political protest without gainning any government attention in China can turn messy. For example, imagine someone blocking the road to prevent athletes to attend the game like someone trying blocking the tank in the Tienamen Square incident. It can easily be argued that the crack down on these protesters are to secure personnels attending the Olympic. So thus it the protesters making it political and not the PRC.

BTW, I don't see how your rest of the arguement matters with the Olympic event. Ppl who turn the Olympic into a political protest, are really selfish and exhibitionists. When knowing they can't change anything and still risking athletes' dreams, can't say they are reasonable ppl.

Enough of this shit. Tibet isn't getting freed, China won't let it happen regardless of whether they lose the olympics or not, it is just too damn important to them strategically. Besides, the entire 'free tibet' movement is just a shit sprinkler funded by USA and co. in order to undercut the chinese; their biggest rival which they simply cannot afford to openly attack or criticise. So they use the Dalai Lama to make them look bad. Tibet, and the Dalai are just pawns in what is effectively a power-play.

or...you know...some people could actually care about Tibet...

Yay! I get to breathe a bit more next month!

You just used some of your breath to say that.

*charges for withdrawal*

The question as to whether the Olympics should or shouldn’t be politicised is rather moot, I feel, as it’s undeniable that the Olympics is politicised. It’s pretty inevitable with an international event watched by people from all around the world, in which national pride is at stake and where state leaders attend and undoubtedly talk to one another on matters far away from sport.

I reckon there’s plenty of interesting unofficial meetings between different governments during the Olympics.

Also, where’s the CowboyNeal option?
This isn’t Slashdot.