NationStates Jolt Archive

I'd like to share this new study done by Indiana University on flirting and social cues. Apparently most men can't read gestures from women and differentiate between friendliness and flirtation.

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=550208&in_page_id=1770

Why the female flirt is wasting her time
By COLIN FERNANDEZ - More by this author » Last updated at 19:55pm on 30th March 2008

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Oblivious: Men don't pick up on seductive techniques of the opposite sex

Some girls merely flutter their eyelashes.

Others snuggle up close and play footsie, while the really forward type might venture a touch on the thigh.

But whatever the method of flirting it just doesn't work with most men, claim researchers.

The male brain, it seems, is hopeless at picking up "come-on" signals, according to a report to be published next month. This leaves men impervious to the seduction techniques of the opposite sex.

A study by scientists at Indiana University tested 280 undergraduates of both genders on their ability to spot social signals.

They were shown photographs of women and asked to categorise them as friendly, sexually interested, sad or rejecting.

The male students were far less accurate than the females at interpreting the body language, and were particularly baffled by the difference between flirty and friendly gestures.

When shown images of women making advances, men tended to misread the sexual cues as friendliness. At the same time they mistook photos of women merely being friendly for sexual interest.

The researchers also found that women overestimate men's ability to pick up on sexual signals.

They argue that many females wrongly believe that the men are well aware of their attempts to woo, but are just not interested in responding.

"Failure to pursue could be an indicator of misperception but could easily be explained by noninterestthe scientists write in the journal Psychological Science.

In contrast, women are very aware that males get the wrong end of the stick when they are simply being friendly.

This is because, the researchers argue, men who misconstrue a friendly gesture as a come-on are more likely to follow through with inappropriate behaviour.

Such embarrassing encounters will lodge more keenly in a woman's memory, and she will also be more likely to discuss it with her friends.

Lead researcher Dr Coreen Farris reassures women, however, that all is not lost when it comes to flirting. She said: "These are average differences. Some men are very skilled in reading clues."

Best- selling author Kathy Lette said the research proved that women are far more fluent in body language.

"It is really confusing for women," she said.

"The average bloke either doesn't realise that we fancy him until we are giving birth to his children in the labour ward; or he presumes all women fancy him all the time.

"God was playing some kind of prank when he developed two sexes."

Well no shit.

Yeah it can be tough since it seems that men and woman think very differently sometimes.

And here I thought this would be a thread where I could complain that my girlfriend just dumped me on Tuesday. Damn you and your misleading thread title.

Me, as a more upfront guy, I do not even bother with body language. Instead, I just use cue cards to display my interest to women.:p

Sorry I tried to fix it but it won't change. :(

And here I thought this would be a thread where I could complain that my girlfriend just dumped me on Tuesday. Damn you and your misleading thread title.

Is that why you're suddenly back on NSG? I'm not complaining, and by the by, I'm sure commiserating you lots, but still.. it seems NSG is a very nice place to fall back on when RL shits on you.

I seem to be one of the few guys I know who can pick up on all of these cues...

...And I definitely picked up on some of them about three weeks ago in my supermarket's parking lot. Still waiting for a phone number on that one. I would've had it several days ago, but something unfortunate happened to her phone involving a toilet, and now I have to wait until she gets a new one. I'll have to make due by burning her another mix disc.

Damn. She's fine (and intelligent), too... Stupid toilets.

Those women.... such perverted minds....;)

Me, as a more upfront guy, I do not even bother with body language. Instead, I just use cue cards to display my interest to women.:p

I would like to make a motion that more men do this.

I'm fairly okay at reading body language, but I always second-guess myself.

Why can't women just be straight forth with us? Why the whole teasing game, the footsie, the whole mess with body language. I mean honestly, how hard is it to say "I like you and I want to boink you."? Not hard!

I am straight forth with people and I am very direct, why can't people repay that in kind?

...but something unfortunate happened to her phone involving a toilet, and now I have to wait until she gets a new one.
Yeah sure, a toilet...
Am I the only one thinking that is a cue for "not as interested in you as you might think." ?

I mean honestly, how hard is it to say "I like you and I want to boink you."? Not hard!

Yeah, I'm a member of what is known as the "Nice shoes. Fancy a fuck?" league around here. Our credo is to be polite, not rush things too much and come on too strong with an outright "Wanna fuck?", but rather pay compliments and signal shared tastes and interests first(hence the "Nice shoes" part), but to also not overcomplicate matters and to acknowledge that our person of interest is a busy, productive and sophisticated member of society and therefore surely not prone to tedious pre-mating/courtship rituals. (Also NB the cultural enrichment we subtly display via employment of alliteration in our polite inquiry about the other person's feelings towards a potential sexual encounter)

Yeah sure, a toilet...
Am I the only one thinking that is a cue for "not as interested in you as you might think." ?

Yes. If I'm not interested in a guy who asks for my number, I either outright say "Sorry, but I do not want to share this information right now", or I just make up some arbitrary number on the spot. I do absolutely not invent a lie that'll just postpone the moment where I'll have to come up with a number.

Yeah sure, a toilet...
Am I the only one thinking that is a cue for "not as interested in you as you might think." ?

I'd be thinking that, too. Cause, generally, I can't live without my phone because I only have a cell- and apparently that's a growing trend. And getting a new phone rarely involves getting a new number.

But, it also sounds like he's been in contact with her since asking for the number the first time. I wouldn't do that if I didn't want a guy to have my number.

And here I thought this would be a thread where I could complain that my girlfriend just dumped me on Tuesday. Damn you and your misleading thread title.You still live here?

This seems to work both ways- I mean, how many times do we hear of people who think just seeing a man talking to a women mean he's flirting with her? I doubt this is a gender-specific phenomenon, but nice to know those scientists have finally figured out why they aren't able to get laid.

wait, did I just let that out... :p

Yes. If I'm not interested in a guy who asks for my number, I either outright say "Sorry, but I do not want to share this information right now", or I just make up some arbitrary number on the spot. I do absolutely not invent a lie that'll just postpone the moment where I'll have to come up with a number.

You know, I caught a girl once doing that to me. I met her and her friend while I was staying in a hotel and thought it went well so we exchanged cell phone numbers with her and her friend where I (unwittingly) gave her my real number. I receive a text message from her to play some kind of game and found that the number came from a phone number I didn't receive. So I just grinned and let it be, content that I had an interesting night.

emotional attatchment to familiar assumptions is the biggest obstical to understanding anything.

if you want to understand anything that has a central nervious system you need to get it throught your head that diversity is the nature of reality.

=^^=
.../\...

Actually one of the biggest problems men and women have with each other is the conviction (profitably fed by legions of authors in the 'Mars-Venus' mould) that they're two different species, when actually they're not all that different. A lot of people just don't realise or won't accept just how similar they actually are.

Both sexes' needs are generally the same (aside reproductive function, obviously); mostly, their desires and aspirations are pretty much the same; and within cultural groups their moralities are normally the same, give or take views on the occasional contentious grey area. But generations of cultural conditioning have brought us up believing that one side won't be able to understand anything the other says or does without complex methods of decryption. We write off whole swathes of art and media as "guy shows" or "chick flicks", when in fact it's a matter of individual taste - not one's whole sex - whether we like something or not. (For a discussion of this sort of thing, see thread "Why Men do not get this movie" on the IMDb board for The Hours.)

Generally speaking, it's the books and magazines that purport to be the key to intersex understanding that are actually hindering it. If you want to understand your partner, spend a moment actually listening to what they're saying without spending all the time looking for secret codes and hidden meanings.

(Disclaimer: if you end up dumped, it's not my fault. There may still be secret codes and hidden meaning there, but that's down to your partner's personality, not his/her sex.)

Yeah, I'm a member of what is known as the "Nice shoes. Fancy a fuck?" league around here. Our credo is to be polite, not rush things too much and come on too strong with an outright "Wanna fuck?", but rather pay compliments and signal shared tastes and interests first(hence the "Nice shoes" part), but to also not overcomplicate matters and to acknowledge that our person of interest is a busy, productive and sophisticated member of society and therefore surely not prone to tedious pre-mating/courtship rituals. (Also NB the cultural enrichment we subtly display via employment of alliteration in our polite inquiry about the other person's feelings towards a potential sexual encounter)


What happens if he aint got nice shoes?

Women are people. Some people are subtle and use complex cues to communicate in social situations. Other people are blunt and relatively clueless about such subtle cues. If you prefer people who are subtle, there are men and women of that type whom you can seek out. If you prefer bluntness, there are men and women of that type whom you can seek out.

If you want to have greater success in dating and relationships, ignore absolutely everything you hear about men and women in the mainstream media.

Why can't women just be straight forth with us? Why the whole teasing game, the footsie, the whole mess with body language. I mean honestly, how hard is it to say "I like you and I want to boink you."? Not hard!

I am straight forth with people and I am very direct, why can't people repay that in kind?
Girls who are "straight forth" in the manner you describe will get branded "sluts."

I know, because I'm blunt and straight forward and I had the reputation of being a slut for two years before I lost my virginity.

If you don't like the fact that women have to play coy games, then help fight the crappy sexist atmosphere we live in.

im finding it hard to believe that men cant tell that a woman is interested in him when she flirts, snuggles up to him, plays footsie or touches his thigh.

has any mnan here really been touched by a woman who was flirting with him and thought "why is she touching me?"

surely the problem is reading too much into that kind of interaction--thinking that she is more into him than she is--than that he doesnt recognize it as flirting.

What men know about women. (http://bp1.blogger.com/_ziJX2O6d5-k/RthduydUWzI/AAAAAAAAAL8/6AvMBtpEjdE/s1600-h/things+men+know+about+women.jpg)

im finding it hard to believe that men cant tell that a woman is interested in him when she flirts, snuggles up to him, plays footsie or touches his thigh.

has any mnan here really been touched by a woman who was flirting with him and thought "why is she touching me?"

surely the problem is reading too much into that kind of interaction--thinking that she is more into him than she is--than that he doesnt recognize it as flirting.

Well, probably, yess... But quite probably she wasn't flirting, so you cannot really tell.

I don't get why eye contacts, smiling, or touching should be always understood as flirting. Because (i think) often they are not flirting. Such things may be unintentional, just friendly or differences in body languages. E.g. if unknown girl on street smiles at me or female friend long time not seen hugs me when we are meeting i do not read those as flirtation. Because I know I would do the same things not as flirtation (unintentionally or being just friendly, etc.).

I think men just do not pay so much attention to those emotional details.

Well, probably, yess... But quite probably she wasn't flirting, so you cannot really tell.

I don't get why eye contacts, smiling, or touching should be always understood as flirting. Because (i think) often they are not flirting. Such things may be unintentional, just friendly or differences in body languages. E.g. if unknown girl on street smiles at me or female friend long time not seen hugs me when we are meeting i do not read those as flirtation. Because I know I would do the same things not as flirtation (unintentionally or being just friendly, etc.).

I think men just do not pay so much attention to those emotional details.

i know there are times when it can be too subtle, i just question the examples given in the article.

so if you are ... watching movies or playing video games with a girl and she is being all talky-and-fun like and when you take a break she snuggles up to you, you would not take that as some kind of indication that its more than a great video game victory?

i know there are times when it can be too subtle, i just question the examples given in the article.

so if you are ... watching movies or playing video games with a girl and she is being all talky-and-fun like and when you take a break she snuggles up to you, you would not take that as some kind of indication that its more than a great video game victory?

Well that is true, but what about in a bar type situation, where there are many men and many women?

Your standing at the bar with a few of your friends, talking sipping your beer, you glance acroos the room and a pretty woman cathces your eye and smiles at you. Is that flirting, is that freindly, is it gas, what is that?

Well that is true, but what about in a bar type situation, where there are many men and many women?

Your standing at the bar with a few of your friends, talking sipping your beer, you glance acroos the room and a pretty woman cathces your eye and smiles at you. Is that flirting, is that freindly, is it gas, what is that?

like i said, i can understand that flirting can be too subtle. i just doubt that the kind of flirting described at the beginning of the article is too subtle.

once a woman is rubbing your feet with hers under the table the more likely mistake is that she wants sex NOW.

i know there are times when it can be too subtle, i just question the examples given in the article.

so if you are ... watching movies or playing video games with a girl and she is being all talky-and-fun like and when you take a break she snuggles up to you, you would not take that as some kind of indication that its more than a great video game victory?

I may be indecisive in such case, but if background story is appropriate (not like usually playing with her video games for many years), than the hint is clear. But there are so many gray areas.

once a woman is rubbing your feet with hers under the table the more likely mistake is that she wants sex NOW.

Is that an opinion of horny male or what?
Ok, i wrote in and read your description which says female :)

My apologies, but that thinking would be simple typical male. A bit sophisticated male could probably think: "Aha, i'm thinking that she wants sex, but that's just because i'm male and want it more. As i know, women do not usually want to sleep with me on the spot, so i'm sure that it's just a friendly gesture."

Is that why you're suddenly back on NSG? I'm not complaining, and by the by, I'm sure commiserating you lots, but still.. it seems NSG is a very nice place to fall back on when RL shits on you.

To be frank, yes, that's why I've returned.

Well you just have to wonder which men actually cant pick up on those signals, and which are the men who are smart enough to avoid mistaking friendliness/flirtation crossover to avoid stepping into a sexual harassment problem if the girl actually was just being friendly

Damn woman hivemind...:p



No, in all honosty, if per the article, a girl starts to put her hand on your thigh, and you dont take that as some sort of sign, youre a retard.

You know, I caught a girl once doing that to me. I met her and her friend while I was staying in a hotel and thought it went well so we exchanged cell phone numbers with her and her friend where I (unwittingly) gave her my real number. I receive a text message from her to play some kind of game and found that the number came from a phone number I didn't receive. So I just grinned and let it be, content that I had an interesting night.

I was in a nightclub once and started talking to these two girls who where coming on all flirty, they turned out to be sisters and it was the younger of the two that was most flirtatose. I asked them their names, and recived the reply 'I'm tree, and I'm leaf'. I thought to myself ohhh ohh thats the old brush off that is, and walked away. It was only latter when I saw them heading out and the bouncer said 'Bye tree, bye leaf' that the gutting feeling sunk in.

Ahhhh well.

*points and laughs* ha ha ha ha ha.

But yes, Bottle is correct as to why women usually aren't more direct.

What happens if he aint got nice shoes?

There are three possible scenarios to that:

a) One turns around and finds another victim.

b) One verbally inquires whether the victim could be so awfully nice to remove their shoes and proceeds to comment on the socks. If either the socks are lacking taste, too, and/or the ensuing odor makes future copulation appear unfavorable, one turns around and finds another victim.

c) One (usually non-verbally) makes inquiries about the niceness of the sexual organ.

To be frank, yes, that's why I've returned.

Been there, done that. I'll break up with my boyfriend in two weeks' time, so in fact I expect to be there, do that again then, too, so, uh.. see you?

Anyhow, allow me to reiterate my pronouncement of sincere joy at your reappearance, and I hope you (still) like it.

Yeah sure, a toilet...
Am I the only one thinking that is a cue for "not as interested in you as you might think." ?

It's possible, but my friend (who she was with at the time) told me she literally wouldn't shut up about me after we talked in the parking lot, and ever since she's been encouraging me to go for it. So, I made her a mix disc (which was received very well), and then last week I asked my friend if she could get me her number.

I don't think she's being dishonest, as I've known her long enough. But I'll just have to wait and see what happens. I'd ask her for the number in person, but since we live rather far apart and I don't have a car to go stalk her (kidding, kidding), it'd be rather difficult. Though one good thing is that Crystal (my friend, and her best friend) said she's interested in going out and doing something.

What happens if he aint got nice shoes?

c) One (usually non-verbally) makes inquiries about the niceness of the sexual organ. "Nice package. Fancy a fuck?"

Been there, done that. I'll break up with my boyfriend in two weeks' time, so in fact I expect to be there, do that again then, too, so, uh.. see you? Just don't put it off for six months. ;)

Girls who are "straight forth" in the manner you describe will get branded "sluts."

I know, because I'm blunt and straight forward and I had the reputation of being a slut for two years before I lost my virginity.

If you don't like the fact that women have to play coy games, then help fight the crappy sexist atmosphere we live in.

Ok fine, if that what it'll take to stop the crappy coy games that I have no chance in understanding I will.

Now how do I fight the crappy sexist atmosphere?

Ok fine, if that what it'll take to stop the crappy coy games that I have no chance in understanding I will.

Now how do I fight the crappy sexist atmosphere?

Here is bra. Go burn it.

Been there, done that. I'll break up with my boyfriend in two weeks' time, so in fact I expect to be there, do that again then, too, so, uh.. see you?

Anyhow, allow me to reiterate my pronouncement of sincere joy at your reappearance, and I hope you (still) like it.

Are you planning on this?

Actually one of the biggest problems men and women have with each other is the conviction (profitably fed by legions of authors in the 'Mars-Venus' mould) that they're two different species, when actually they're not all that different. A lot of people just don't realise or won't accept just how similar they actually are.

Both sexes' needs are generally the same (aside reproductive function, obviously); mostly, their desires and aspirations are pretty much the same; and within cultural groups their moralities are normally the same, give or take views on the occasional contentious grey area. But generations of cultural conditioning have brought us up believing that one side won't be able to understand anything the other says or does without complex methods of decryption. We write off whole swathes of art and media as "guy shows" or "chick flicks", when in fact it's a matter of individual taste - not one's whole sex - whether we like something or not. (For a discussion of this sort of thing, see thread "Why Men do not get this movie" on the IMDb board for The Hours.)

Generally speaking, it's the books and magazines that purport to be the key to intersex understanding that are actually hindering it. If you want to understand your partner, spend a moment actually listening to what they're saying without spending all the time looking for secret codes and hidden meanings.

(Disclaimer: if you end up dumped, it's not my fault. There may still be secret codes and hidden meaning there, but that's down to your partner's personality, not his/her sex.)

This.

If this report is true, it could mean that members of the opposite sex have expressed interest in me, but I just haven't noticed. Ever.

The male brain, it seems, is hopeless at picking up "come-on" signals, according to a report to be published next month.

Wait, they test a bunch of undergraduates and someone draws a conclusion about the male brain as such?

If this report is true, it could mean that members of the opposite sex have expressed interest in me, but I just haven't noticed. Ever.

I know! So many women I thought were just being "friendly" could've actually been interested in me! :eek: :(

"Nice package. Fancy a fuck?"

Basically, yes. The repertoire should allow for different sexual orientations and targeted genders (and I have not yet heard any primary or secondary female sex characteristic being referred to as 'package'), but the gist is there.

For those who prefer to give off this one-fits-all, nondescript, bland and thoroughly unimaginative approach best suited for the end-of-term dance for the "How To Blend Into The Wall Behind Me 101" class, try "You're hot. Fancy a fuck?"

Just don't put it off for six months. ;)

Are you planning on this?

Well. This may sound somewhat strange-ish even for NSG, but no, I shan't put it off not one minute from the planned time (unless his train is late), and yes, we're mutually planning (on) this - he will leave me and our flat in order to become a monk (well, monk apprentice / aspirant for starters) in very nearly exactly 14 days, so... I knew I was attaching myself to a difficult man, and I did so with the affirmation that I was ready to make sacrifices, but I am in no way prepared to "wait for him" with some sort of comfort re: love being as timeless as the spiritual ideas and ideals he chose to pursue now, or anything along those lines.

I know! So many women I thought were just being "friendly" could've actually been interested in me! :eek: :(

I would say the same thing, except I am no optimist.

Actually one of the biggest problems men and women have with each other is the conviction (profitably fed by legions of authors in the 'Mars-Venus' mould) that they're two different species, when actually they're not all that different. A lot of people just don't realise or won't accept just how similar they actually are.

Both sexes' needs are generally the same (aside reproductive function, obviously); mostly, their desires and aspirations are pretty much the same; and within cultural groups their moralities are normally the same, give or take views on the occasional contentious grey area. But generations of cultural conditioning have brought us up believing that one side won't be able to understand anything the other says or does without complex methods of decryption. We write off whole swathes of art and media as "guy shows" or "chick flicks", when in fact it's a matter of individual taste - not one's whole sex - whether we like something or not. (For a discussion of this sort of thing, see thread "Why Men do not get this movie" on the IMDb board for The Hours.)

Generally speaking, it's the books and magazines that purport to be the key to intersex understanding that are actually hindering it. If you want to understand your partner, spend a moment actually listening to what they're saying without spending all the time looking for secret codes and hidden meanings.

(Disclaimer: if you end up dumped, it's not my fault. There may still be secret codes and hidden meaning there, but that's down to your partner's personality, not his/her sex.)

Well said, I agree. It's why I've never really read too much about what the "experts" say, either because it's painfully obvious (I think of "David DeAngelo's" (that's not his real name) ploy of "Cocky & Funny" only because it's a clear rephrasing of the idea that unless you're self-confident and can make the other person comfortable around your presence you won't get a date- regardless of gender. Doubt that's something we need to *pay* for) or subscribe to some fancy "tradition" that has no rational basis (I once read a very nice article that was aimed at women trying to find a date and said a lot of things that made sense for me (a guy) such as trying to work in "your life" in your first conversation with someone else but then ended by telling the woman- "it's still the guy's duty to ask you out, because that way you'll know if he's interested". Well, maybe he's too shy, and besides, there's no better way than to find out if he's interested if *you* ask- that way there's no mixed signal).

I still do read these articles from time to time, only because they're interesting if I never wind up agreeing with them. My favourite (to laugh at) of all time:

http://www.tangomag.com/200684/relationship-red-flags.html (especially here (http://www.tangomag.com/200684/relationship-red-flags.html/3)- yep, "ketchup on eggs" is a perfectly valid reason *not* to date someone...what are you, 12?)

Girls who are "straight forth" in the manner you describe will get branded "sluts."

I know, because I'm blunt and straight forward and I had the reputation of being a slut for two years before I lost my virginity.

If you don't like the fact that women have to play coy games, then help fight the crappy sexist atmosphere we live in.

Well, if it's the second sentence said to a completely random stranger, yeah I agree- but I think that would weird out someone for *any* gender, not just a man or a woman. I don't see why the woman- if the conversation is going extremely well- wouldn't think of asking out the man herself; and, if the conversation veers in that direction (sometimes it does) why the woman can't ask for sex. You make it sound like the man's got to do all the asking as if he's supposed to read the woman's mind- now, as much as I'd love that ability, I don't have it so I prefer to have a woman who'll be upfront with what they want instead of "sending all these signs hoping I figure it out" because sometimes I won't.

so if you are ... watching movies or playing video games with a girl and she is being all talky-and-fun like and when you take a break she snuggles up to you, you would not take that as some kind of indication that its more than a great video game victory?

I do know a woman who just likes snuggling and thus I don't always see it as an invitation for sex...now, if maybe there's some kissing, dirty talk or some other actions involved (and also depending on my relationship and past encounters with said person) then I'd see it that way but "cuddling" doesn't always mean "let's have sex".

I was in a nightclub once and started talking to these two girls who where coming on all flirty, they turned out to be sisters and it was the younger of the two that was most flirtatose. I asked them their names, and recived the reply 'I'm tree, and I'm leaf'. I thought to myself ohhh ohh thats the old brush off that is, and walked away. It was only latter when I saw them heading out and the bouncer said 'Bye tree, bye leaf' that the gutting feeling sunk in.

Ahhhh well.

Oooohhh...sorry to hear that bud. Of course, the flip side might be that the two girls told the bouncer "we want to be called 'tree' and 'leaf'" and he was in on the act (since it's the bouncer's job to protect the patrons and hiding the girls' true identity serves that purpose).

Still, I think if a girl picks a "fake name" she'd use a name less conspicuous, like "Amanda" or "Julie"- "tree" and "leaf" are pretty odd. I also wonder- were those two ravers (or were you at a rave)? This is because ravers tend to have nicknames like that.

Ah well, at least it's a learning experience.