NationStates Jolt Archive

I had the misfortune of reading some very intolerant posts in this forum regarding (in order of appearance) Christianity, Atheism, Mormonism, Islam, Judaism, and the advocacy or illegitimacy thereof.

As I am a student of religions around the world, as well as having volunteered for CRES (community resource for exploring spirituality), an organization dedicated to opening avenues of discussion, tolerance, and celebration of differences among the faithful of many religions, I feel uniquely qualified to offer my advice (take it, or leave it).

Before you even begin writing a post, take a moment to evaluate the nature of its subject (and, please, stay on subject). If you're quite sure that any one group will view your post as flaming, trolling, or intolerant, consider revising the post to make use of tact.

I've heard tact best defined as telling your enemies to go to Hell, and making them look forward to the ride.

A breakdown of communication can occur when either two parties agree on all points or disagree on all points. Without the use of tact, two communicators may be encouraged to react defensively, closing off all avenues of communication and disagreeing with all statements made thereafter on the subject. Consider the wording of each statement carefully to avoid making another person feel he is being mocked.

Have you used tact? Good. Now comes the more difficult part: have you made any broad generalizations? Have your statements encompassed an entire group of individuals, lumping them together as if they were a single entity? Have you taken a tendency of members of the group you have met and claimed it as a defining characteristic of all people in that group? Have you made statements without citing a source? Do any of your sentences amount to "because I said so"?

And last, but not least, if you post your thread, what do you hope to gain? Are you posting to educate someone about a matter of your own opinion? Perhaps you are feeling bitter about a certain group and want them to know that they're not welcome expressing their limited freedom of speech here.

If you're posting for any reason other than to learn about another person's views or find flaws in your own logic, be prepared to receive both. In this world with imperfect information and circular logic, closed mindedness and unwillingness to compromise, it's easy to disagree.

If everyone stays on topic, cites sources, concedes that differences of opinion cannot always be resolved, makes tactful statements, discourages untactful ones, and is able to view his own opinions critically, a communication breakdown can be avoided long enough for someone, somewhere, to learn something.

This Message Brought To You By,

Rosebud White, "An Experiment in Successful Corrupt Government"

Oh, dear. Asking for basic decency and openmindedness here is like trying to herd cats.

your suggestions are good ones if a poster is interested in a thoughtful give and take on religion. on nsg that is seldom the case (although it does happen from time to time)

I've heard tact best defined as telling your enemies to go to Hell, and making them look forward to the ride.But if you want someone to join your religion; the last thing you want is for them to look forward to going to hell!

In a place called Perfect...

everyone stays on topic, cites sources, concedes that differences of opinion cannot always be resolved, makes tactful statements, discourages untactful ones, and is able to view his own opinions critically.

Of course, we don't live anywhere near Perfect. So there's Walgreens. :D

But really, I'm not sure why you took the time to post this. People who already use logic and tact to persuade others to their views will continue to do so, while the people who just want to poke fun at others will continue as they were until they seriously violate this site's TOS or something.

Tips on having an adult discussion about religion

You left out don't build straw men.

Mine is more omnipotent than yours, specially if you don't even have one! :p

Wait, sorry, I mean, eh, yeah good advise. Those who tout what they like and bash what they don't are just wasting time on sounding immature. On the other hand those who explain what they think and want to learn what others think might at least learn something.

I had the misfortune of reading some very intolerant posts in this forum regarding (in order of appearance) Christianity, Atheism, Mormonism, Islam, Judaism, and the advocacy or illegitimacy thereof.

As I am a student of religions around the world, as well as having volunteered for CRES (community resource for exploring spirituality), an organization dedicated to opening avenues of discussion, tolerance, and celebration of differences among the faithful of many religions, I feel uniquely qualified to offer my advice (take it, or leave it).

Before you even begin writing a post, take a moment to evaluate the nature of its subject (and, please, stay on subject). If you're quite sure that any one group will view your post as flaming, trolling, or intolerant, consider revising the post to make use of tact.

I've heard tact best defined as telling your enemies to go to Hell, and making them look forward to the ride.

A breakdown of communication can occur when either two parties agree on all points or disagree on all points. Without the use of tact, two communicators may be encouraged to react defensively, closing off all avenues of communication and disagreeing with all statements made thereafter on the subject. Consider the wording of each statement carefully to avoid making another person feel he is being mocked.

Have you used tact? Good. Now comes the more difficult part: have you made any broad generalizations? Have your statements encompassed an entire group of individuals, lumping them together as if they were a single entity? Have you taken a tendency of members of the group you have met and claimed it as a defining characteristic of all people in that group? Have you made statements without citing a source? Do any of your sentences amount to "because I said so"?

And last, but not least, if you post your thread, what do you hope to gain? Are you posting to educate someone about a matter of your own opinion? Perhaps you are feeling bitter about a certain group and want them to know that they're not welcome expressing their limited freedom of speech here.

If you're posting for any reason other than to learn about another person's views or find flaws in your own logic, be prepared to receive both. In this world with imperfect information and circular logic, closed mindedness and unwillingness to compromise, it's easy to disagree.

If everyone stays on topic, cites sources, concedes that differences of opinion cannot always be resolved, makes tactful statements, discourages untactful ones, and is able to view his own opinions critically, a communication breakdown can be avoided long enough for someone, somewhere, to learn something.

This Message Brought To You By,

Rosebud White, "An Experiment in Successful Corrupt Government"

Yeah, I tried asking for something like this once. I've had the thread linked in my signature ever since, but unfortunately I don't think it was heeded by many people.

It's good to see someone else willing to try though. Thumbs up from me!

Oh, dear. Asking for basic decency and openmindedness here is like trying to herd one million cats, interspersed with 500,000 dogs, six elephants, two blue whales and a tyranosaurus rex. And the cats are all on fire. And all you've got is a pointy stick. And youre naked, and have recently been slathered in goat blood.
Fix'd.

Thank goodness someone wants to have a mature discussion about religion. I like to think I am on a middle ground between spiritualism/religion and atheism. I can see good and bad in both sides. I am sick of either side being totally closed minded and intolerant.

Anything that goes against my own beliefs, I eagerly analyse. Because if it says something convincing then I might have to alter or question my beliefs, but if it is baseless then it makes my beliefs all the more strong.

We forget that we are all people and just because we believe in different things doesn't mean we can't get along. Obviously some things are a bit difficult such as pro-choice vs pro-life, or different political beliefs, but seriously something like whether religion is right or wrong or if there is or isn't a God, is rather pointless.

I will always try to persuade people to think my way, but if they don't I'm not going to disrespect them. And if they are closed minded, I'm not going to bother, leave them in their narrow outlook.

Oh, dear. Asking for basic decency and openmindedness here is like trying to herd cats.


These guys seem to be able to do it. :) (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Pk7yqlTMvp8)

If only!!!

However I think the following still still a widely used guide... :(

TIPS FOR ADULT RELIGIOUS DEBATES ON NSG

1. Insult early, insult often, to help express to other users that you care about this topic and want to be involved in meaningful, challenging debate. Don't restrict yourself to standard language. use colloquialisms, txt tlk, bizzare abbreviations (sum ppl think wtf?! but imho a lot of ppl c wat u r witin & iirc it's tort @ skool n stuff so no probz) and general vulgarities.

2. :upyours: use lots of :headbang: anti-social :sniper: smilies

3. LARGE BOLD TEXT ALL IN CAPS HELPS PEOPLE UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT OF VIEW

4. Never ever forget. I'M RIGHT... YOUR WRONG! I'M BIG... YOUR SMALL!

If only!!!

However I think the following still still a widely used guide... :(

TIPS FOR ADULT RELIGIOUS DEBATES ON NSG

1. Insult early, insult often, to help express to other users that you care about this topic and want to be involved in meaningful, challenging debate. Don't restrict yourself to standard language. use colloquialisms, txt tlk, bizzare abbreviations (sum ppl think wtf?! but imho a lot of ppl c wat u r witin & iirc it's tort @ skool n stuff so no probz) and general vulgarities.

2. :upyours: use lots of :headbang: anti-social :sniper: smilies

3. LARGE BOLD TEXT ALL IN CAPS HELPS PEOPLE UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT OF VIEW

4. Never ever forget. I'M RIGHT... YOUR WRONG! I'M BIG... YOUR SMALL!


You forgot 'Insert as much Latin as possible into your arguement, use terms like 'ad hominiem' and 'hyperbole', and 'Quid pro quo', even if you dont know what they really mean. 'Strawman', although not technically Latin, is good for any arguement too long, short, or complicated to warrant your attention.'

Tips on having an adult discussion about religion:

1) Stop believing in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny
2) ...
3) Profit

"The only winning move is not to play." -Joshua

Oh, dear. Asking for basic decency and openmindedness here is like trying to herd cats.

It's good to see a mod who has a realistic view of what NSG is like.

"The only winning move is not to play." -Joshua

no, then you lose for sure. stupid computer.

You forgot 'Insert as much Latin as possible into your arguement, use terms like 'ad hominiem' and 'hyperbole', and 'Quid pro quo', even if you dont know what they really mean. 'Strawman', although not technically Latin, is good for any arguement too long, short, or complicated to warrant your attention.'

Oh yep, I forgot that. And of course, "Remeber kids. Keep all attacks PERSONAL! :rolleyes:

You forgot 'Insert as much Latin as possible into your arguement, use terms like 'ad hominiem' and 'hyperbole', and 'Quid pro quo', even if you dont know what they really mean. 'Strawman', although not technically Latin, is good for any arguement too long, short, or complicated to warrant your attention.'

What happens when you actually know what all of that means?

You left out don't build straw men.

Also left out "learn the true definition of a strawman and don't sling it like a handful of mud at everyone who may have misinterpreted your position." There's far too much of that on NSG for my taste. Plus, all the other logical fallacies feel left out. :(

Oh yep, I forgot that. And of course, "Remeber kids. Keep all attacks PERSONAL! :rolleyes:

A good rule indeed.
Make sure to tag all personal attacks with the disclaimer 'nothing personal', that makes you immune to being moderated ;)

What happens when you actually know what all of that means?

Then youre over-educated and in need of corrective labour. Please report to the first train leaving for Kolyma.

The day I have an adult discussion about religion is the day religion grows up.

Tips on having an adult discussion about religion:

1) Stop believing in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny
2) ...
3) Profit

im sorry FS but this makes no sense. give up believing in GOD, fine but give up on santa and the easter bunny is just stupid.

as i told my son when he was 6, those who dont believe in santa dont get presents from santa

im sorry FS but this makes no sense. give up believing in GOD, fine but give up on santa and the easter bunny is just stupid.

as i told my son when he was 6, those who dont believe in santa dont get presents from santa

everybody knows that both santa and the easter bunny are merely papist knock-offs of the true religious figures - magical gift man and the jesus bunny. magical gift man is just awesome, but i like the jesus bunny too. especially the story about the time the jesus bunny cut down his father's palm tree, but then found that he couldn't tell a lie about it when questioned.

A good rule indeed.
Make sure to tag all personal attacks with the disclaimer 'nothing personal', that makes you immune to being moderated ;)

"No offense" may also be accepted.

Then youre over-educated and in need of corrective labour. Please report to the first train leaving for Kolyma.

Duly noted. Away I go!

everybody knows that both santa and the easter bunny are merely papist knock-offs of the true religious figures - magical gift man and the jesus bunny. magical gift man is just awesome, but i like the jesus bunny too. especially the story about the time the jesus bunny cut down his father's palm tree, but then found that he couldn't tell a lie about it when questioned.

lol so true! i grew up on that palm tree story!

but the fact remains that god doesnt answer prayers but the easter bunny gives you candy. i know who *I* would pick.

lol so true! i grew up on that palm tree story!

but the fact remains that god doesnt answer prayers but the easter bunny gives you candy. i know who *I* would pick.

Teh Easter Bunny!!! Those chocolate covered marshmallow eggs are the bomb!!

Teh Easter Bunny!!! Those chocolate covered marshmallow eggs are the bomb!!

*gives Nanatsu http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff315/Sarothai/wonka_golden_eggs.jpg*


Personally I'd choose neither, but that's just me...

*gives Nanatsu http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff315/Sarothai/wonka_golden_eggs.jpg*


Personally I'd choose neither, but that's just me...

*drools*
Teh Easter Bunny´s a God!!!

everybody knows that both santa and the easter bunny are merely papist knock-offs of the true religious figures - magical gift man and the jesus bunny. magical gift man is just awesome, but i like the jesus bunny too. especially the story about the time the jesus bunny cut down his father's palm tree, but then found that he couldn't tell a lie about it when questioned.

The Jesus Bunny. I f*cking KNEW I was wrong on that one! My friend asked me what Easter was all about. Not wanting to look completely ignorant I fudged together what I could (spring, growth, creation like thing and Jesus being born) so I give you the Abju version of Easter.... When I realised I didn't actually know anything, I thought I might as well push it as far as I could and see what I got :-) I could have just shut up, but it wasn't as much fun...

Easter - The First Time of Great Enjoyment

Easter is the time that Christians celebrate the creation of the world and the birth of Jesus... In the beginning there was nothing. Then from the primordial waters (nothingness?) emerged the chocolate egg. Darkness turned to light as the egg broke in two and from it emerged Jesus (or God?) as his egg formed the heavens and the land.

And Jesus/God saw that it was good and he felt pleasure. In his pleasure he masturbated and in so doing coated the egg in fertile seed and created the first man, woman and Noah.

And that, children, is why you have chocolate eggs each Easter, and why they have little chocolates inside and a pattern on them.

Note - I found out (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter) that apparently Easter is about the resurrection of Jesus and not his birth. Still good fun though :)

Not being insulting is kind of a good start too. However, it is essentially impossible to have an adult conversation about religion on the internet.

Fix'd.

You owe me a bottle of Coca Cola. ;)


These guys seem to be able to do it. :) (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Pk7yqlTMvp8)

LOL, yeah I've seen that one before. ;) Definitely CGI cats.

However, it is essentially impossible to have an adult conversation about religion on the internet.

its not that hard as long as there aren't any people who actually believe the religion in question around

You left out don't build straw men.

That's for any discussion, not just one about religion.

Not being insulting is kind of a good start too. However, it is essentially impossible to have an adult conversation about religion on the internet.

Yes, because...let's all just admit it. There's not a person here who's older than eight. I'm five and half, myself.

I had the misfortune of reading some very intolerant posts in this forum regarding (in order of appearance) Christianity, Atheism, Mormonism, Islam, Judaism, and the advocacy or illegitimacy thereof.
Anectdotal evidence is useless.
As I am a student of religions around the world, as well as having volunteered for CRES (community resource for exploring spirituality), an organization dedicated to opening avenues of discussion, tolerance, and celebration of differences among the faithful of many religions, I feel uniquely qualified to offer my advice (take it, or leave it).
Wow... do I see a degree? No. No I do not. Why should I trust you at all?
I've heard tact best defined as telling your enemies to go to Hell, and making them look forward to the ride.
Strawman.
A breakdown of communication can occur when either two parties agree on all points or disagree on all points. Without the use of tact, two communicators may be encouraged to react defensively, closing off all avenues of communication and disagreeing with all statements made thereafter on the subject. Consider the wording of each statement carefully to avoid making another person feel he is being mocked.
Source?

And last, but not least, if you post your thread, what do you hope to gain? Are you posting to educate someone about a matter of your own opinion? Perhaps you are feeling bitter about a certain group and want them to know that they're not welcome expressing their limited freedom of speech here.
Assumption.
If you're posting for any reason other than to learn about another person's views or find flaws in your own logic, be prepared to receive both. In this world with imperfect information and circular logic, closed mindedness and unwillingness to compromise, it's easy to disagree.
Again, why should I trust you? Source plz.
If everyone stays on topic, cites sources, concedes that differences of opinion cannot always be resolved, makes tactful statements, discourages untactful ones, and is able to view his own opinions critically, a communication breakdown can be avoided long enough for someone, somewhere, to learn something.
Source?
This Message Brought To You By,
Rosebud White, "An Experiment in Successful Corrupt Government
Commie.
/jokez

Aha, but my thread had nothing to do with religion, only the discussion of it. The title was not "tips on having an adult meta-discussion". Wow. I should run for president. :p

LOL, yeah I've seen that one before. ;) Definitely CGI cats.

Oh yea, I think 80% of the cat would just be laying on the ground looking at the herders like "Yea, right" I think the other 20% would be sleeping. :p

Jesus and Muhammad were gay lovers.

Jesus and Muhammad were gay lovers.
we're friends but we've never dated... i mean we did dance together but... no definitely never dated.

I had the misfortune of reading some very intolerant posts in this forum regarding (in order of appearance) Christianity, Atheism, Mormonism, Islam, Judaism, and the advocacy or illegitimacy thereof.

As I am a student of religions around the world, as well as having volunteered for CRES (community resource for exploring spirituality), an organization dedicated to opening avenues of discussion, tolerance, and celebration of differences among the faithful of many religions, I feel uniquely qualified to offer my advice (take it, or leave it).

Before you even begin writing a post, take a moment to evaluate the nature of its subject (and, please, stay on subject). If you're quite sure that any one group will view your post as flaming, trolling, or intolerant, consider revising the post to make use of tact.

I've heard tact best defined as telling your enemies to go to Hell, and making them look forward to the ride.

A breakdown of communication can occur when either two parties agree on all points or disagree on all points. Without the use of tact, two communicators may be encouraged to react defensively, closing off all avenues of communication and disagreeing with all statements made thereafter on the subject. Consider the wording of each statement carefully to avoid making another person feel he is being mocked.

Have you used tact? Good. Now comes the more difficult part: have you made any broad generalizations? Have your statements encompassed an entire group of individuals, lumping them together as if they were a single entity? Have you taken a tendency of members of the group you have met and claimed it as a defining characteristic of all people in that group? Have you made statements without citing a source? Do any of your sentences amount to "because I said so"?

And last, but not least, if you post your thread, what do you hope to gain? Are you posting to educate someone about a matter of your own opinion? Perhaps you are feeling bitter about a certain group and want them to know that they're not welcome expressing their limited freedom of speech here.

If you're posting for any reason other than to learn about another person's views or find flaws in your own logic, be prepared to receive both. In this world with imperfect information and circular logic, closed mindedness and unwillingness to compromise, it's easy to disagree.

If everyone stays on topic, cites sources, concedes that differences of opinion cannot always be resolved, makes tactful statements, discourages untactful ones, and is able to view his own opinions critically, a communication breakdown can be avoided long enough for someone, somewhere, to learn something.

This Message Brought To You By,

Rosebud White, "An Experiment in Successful Corrupt Government"

You're taking all the fun out of it. *whines.*

Oh yea, I think 80% of the cat would just be laying on the ground looking at the herders like "Yea, right" I think the other 20% would be sleeping. :p

Mika would be walking right along, because she likes walkies. Loves them, in fact. Stranger would be flipping out about being in the big room with the blue roof and probably scratch everybody all to hell. He only has the back claws, but they're wicked.

Oh yep, I forgot that. And of course, "Remeber kids. Keep all attacks PERSONAL! :rolleyes:

Personal attacks should be like voting in Chicago: do it early and do it often.

Mika would be walking right along, because she likes walkies. Loves them, in fact. Stranger would be flipping out about being in the big room with the blue roof and probably scratch everybody all to hell. He only has the back claws, but they're wicked.

Heh, Amelia doesn't like collars so she's not a walking cat. She does follow me around the house when it suits her. Other than that she just does her own thing, which is sleeping, eating, drinking, and using the box.