NationStates Jolt Archive

Not to fast.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/29/business/media/29comics.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

A Federal Court in the United States of America has ruled that a family was swindled by Time Warner out of its rights to the Superman copyright.

The creator of Superman and his family had been recieving royalties from DC comics for use the character. Time Warner has tried to say that the copyright does not apply to movies. The US Federal Judge said that copyrights and any accompanying royalty payments apply not only to comics or book versions of Superman but also to movie portrayals.
Unfortunately for them, this decision does not apply to the 4 original superman movies from the late 70's and 80's.

This is a good vindication of people who create their own characters. Because it is not fair to make up a character only to have Steven Speilberg steal it and make big bucks off of it while you are forced to live in poverty with no rights to your creation.

So let me get this straight --

Jerry Siegel SOLD the right completely 70 years ago, and now because it turns out that the character has made shitloads of money, his heirs, who were not party to the sale in the first place, have rights to it?

What is a contract worth?

$30k a year to their estate for rights they sold decades ago wasn't enough?

Kat, that is the part of it I could not figure out. I think they were arguing that he was swindled into selling it for a very very cheap price when the buyers knew they would make millions off it.
But it is kind of confusing on that part. Being as the ruling is in California, it would have an impact on a lot of future movies if the higher courts uphold the ruling.



30K a year is poverty level in the US. It's barely enough to get yourself a woodshack but it does not pay for food, water, electricity, gas etc.

Ironically, poor people in America, are relatively wealthier than poor people in other parts of the world. Considering the exchange rates in place at the moment, even with the dollars sharp decline.

well they apparently reclaimed the rights in 1999 under some odd law....

and now they are pushing the movie makers to cough up for the 2006 movie...

-_-;; I swear if I ever make and sell a character it will be with the disclaimer "forever and ever regardless of success or greedy relatives"

30K a year is poverty level in the US. It's barely enough to get yourself a woodshack but it does not pay for food, water, electricity, gas etc.

But this is free money. They did nothing for it and need to do nothing to maintain it. They can also, shock horror, work to supplement this income.

In the bigger picture, as Superman was one of the 1st of that style of character, the company who purchased the character had no idea he'd be so successful. The slew of failed, or once successful but collapsed, comic characters and franchises, is testimony to that.

The original person who sold the character accepted the deal. The end, in my book.

Perhaps one of our local lawyerly types could shed some light on the subject...

*chants the names to attract them*
Neesika, The Cat-Tribes, or Neo Art...

But this is free money. They did nothing for it and need to do nothing to maintain it. They can also, shock horror, work to supplement this income.

In the bigger picture, as Superman was one of the 1st of that style of character, the company who purchased the character had no idea he'd be so successful. The slew of failed, or once successful but collapsed, comic characters and franchises, is testimony to that.

The original person who sold the character accepted the deal. The end, in my book.

eh. They do work for that 30K. Unemployment only nets you at most 800 a Month and food stamps is less. A lot of poor people work longer and harder hours than better off people.

Perhaps one of our local lawyerly types could shed some light on the subject...

*chants the names to attract them*
Neesika, The Cat-Tribes, or Neo Art...

You can't merely chant their names, you have to make some sort of sacrificial offering to the dark gods of the legal system. And just remember that when they arrive you must be within the circle of virgin's blood or else risk litigation/loss of soul.

eh. They do work for that 30K. Unemployment only nets you at most 800 a Month and food stamps is less. A lot of poor people work longer and harder hours than better off people.

I think you misunderstood. I believe Fishutopia was saying that the $30k a year the Siegels get is "free money" that they don't have to do anything to get -- and a $30k annual windfall plus a regular job/other income ain't nothin' to sneeze at.

You can't merely chant their names, you have to make some sort of sacrificial offering to the dark gods of the legal system. And just remember that when they arrive you must be within the circle of virgin's blood or else risk litigation/loss of soul.

/me offers a certain Floridian lawyer of endless lulz, in effigy

30K a year is poverty level in the US. It's barely enough to get yourself a woodshack but it does not pay for food, water, electricity, gas etc.
$30k a year as royalties for rights to something they don't own.

eh. They do work for that 30K. Unemployment only nets you at most 800 a Month and food stamps is less. A lot of poor people work longer and harder hours than better off people.
Do you even have any idea what the thread is about?

I think they're just upset because "Smallville" was named "Smallville" and not "Superboy" because they still hold the rights to that character, and would receive royalties if the name "Superboy" were used-why else want a cut of a radioactive dog turd of a movie like "Superman Returns"?

Perhaps one of our local lawyerly types could shed some light on the subject...

*chants the names to attract them*
Neesika, The Cat-Tribes, or Neo Art...

I'm not a lawyer but I do know a little bit about intellectual property law:

*The following is written with the possibility that I might be completely wrong:

Copyright only lasts for a certain period but this period is frequently extended by congress. One of the times that congress was extending it they decided that people sold their copyright on the basis is was going to be until year x so making it last to year y was unfair and therefore they gave the option for a person or their heirs to terminate the copyright. The heirs of one of the creators did this and therefore they are entitled to half of the copyright.

So when you buy a copyright from someone it is only yours for a limited amount of time then reverts back to ownership of the original person similar to digital rights media?

You can't merely chant their names, you have to make some sort of sacrificial offering to the dark gods of the legal system. And just remember that when they arrive you must be within the circle of virgin's blood or else risk litigation/loss of soul.

Can I choose soul-loss?

Kat, that is the part of it I could not figure out. I think they were arguing that he was swindled into selling it for a very very cheap price when the buyers knew they would make millions off it.
But it is kind of confusing on that part. Being as the ruling is in California, it would have an impact on a lot of future movies if the higher courts uphold the ruling.



30K a year is poverty level in the US. It's barely enough to get yourself a woodshack but it does not pay for food, water, electricity, gas etc.

Ironically, poor people in America, are relatively wealthier than poor people in other parts of the world. Considering the exchange rates in place at the moment, even with the dollars sharp decline.

Poverty level in the united states is just over 8 grand not 30
While 30k is not all that much at least in this area it will get you an apartment and a comfortable level of food

I mean 30,000 a year is the equivalent of working a 15.50 an hour job or 2.64 times the united states minimum wage

So when you buy a copyright from someone it is only yours for a limited amount of time then reverts back to ownership of the original person similar to digital rights media?

Sorry, I messed that up (I did put a disclaimer in there :D). It actually goes into the public domain after a certain amount of time. What congress did was say that if the period of copyright was extended for works sold on the basis of the previous copyright period that the original owners (or their heirs) should be able to take advantage of them.

(*I think)

Sorry, I messed that up (I did put a disclaimer in there :D). It actually goes into the public domain after a certain amount of time. What congress did was say that if the period of copyright was extended for works sold on the basis of the previous copyright period that the original owners (or their heirs) should be able to take advantage of them.

(*I think)

Well that makes sense. Because when you buy a copyright it is only for the original life of the copyright. Not for the renewal or extension of it.

Sounds like Time Warner owned the expired version of the copyright and the family got the extended version.

You can't merely chant their names, you have to make some sort of sacrificial offering to the dark gods of the legal system. And just remember that when they arrive you must be within the circle of virgin's blood or else risk litigation/loss of soul.

*sacrifices a nerd, and uses the nerd's blood to create the circle*

Poverty level in the united states is just over 8 grand not 30
While 30k is not all that much at least in this area it will get you an apartment and a comfortable level of food

I mean 30,000 a year is the equivalent of working a 15.50 an hour job or 2.64 times the united states minimum wage

Are you talking about the official federal minimum wage? If you talk about minimum wage, you can't talk federal. You have to talk about state minimum wages. The minimum wage in the federal law is around $5.85. In California it is $8.
Same with the poverty level. There is an officially named poverty level on the federal level and then you have at least 50 different versions of what constitutes poverty at the state level. The set minimum amount of income that a family needs for food, clothing, transportation, shelter and other necessities. FPL depends on family size. PL for a family with 3 children is $22,000 at the federal level.
Not to mention you have to take into COL differences. California's COL is 61% higher than Texas's for example. (COL = Cost of Living)

Poverty level in the united states is just over 8 grand not 30
While 30k is not all that much at least in this area it will get you an apartment and a comfortable level of food

I mean 30,000 a year is the equivalent of working a 15.50 an hour job or 2.64 times the united states minimum wage

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/threshld/thresh07.html

According to this around $11,000 is the poverty level for just one person. (not counting a spouse or any children)

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/threshld/thresh07.html

According to this around $11,000 is the poverty level for just one person. (not counting a spouse or any children)

Maybe he missed the part about $20K being poverty for people with families.
When you have 5 kids to support and a spouse to support, $30K is the poverty level according the federal government.
The bigger your family, the higher the poverty level is for you. Such that a person who makes $70,000 but has 15 to 20 kids to support is actually living in poverty. But if you have that many kids, you must be god's gift to women or something.

If someone where to make a comment about hot barely legal teenage girls, Neo Art would appear in a flash;)

Sounds like Time Warner owned the expired version of the copyright and the family got the extended version.

Exactamundo. And in 2013 the estate of the other dude will be able to claim its half back and that'll last 'til the whole thing slides into the public domain in 2033.

So let me get this straight --

Jerry Siegel SOLD the right completely 70 years ago, and now because it turns out that the character has made shitloads of money, his heirs, who were not party to the sale in the first place, have rights to it?

What is a contract worth?

Couldn't agree more Kat.

30K a year is poverty level in the US. It's barely enough to get yourself a woodshack but it does not pay for food, water, electricity, gas etc.

Erm... My Grandparents make a lot less than that, and they have:
1.2 relativly new computers
2. They smoke.(tobbacco, not pot)
3.A good apartment.
4. Evey game system since the genesis. Except xbox,360 and ps3.
5.Somewhere between 250-300 games (No exageration)
6. 2 TVs with digital cable.
Now, I fail to see how that is just a woodshack!

Couldn't agree more Kat.


Yeah.. but that's not the case is it?

If someone where to make a comment about hot barely legal teenage girls, Neo Art would appear in a flash;)

Did I hear something?

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/threshld/thresh07.html

According to this around $11,000 is the poverty level for just one person. (not counting a spouse or any children)

Ok so just short of 3 times the single person poverty level ... for 0 work on their part
Or just more then needed for 6 people (3 of which are children)

Did I hear something?

It worked

LOL I guess instead of chanting "Neo Art, Neesika and The Cat-Tribes" I should have added "hot chicks here!"

Whatever happens, I have firmly decided that if they make a sequel to Superman Returns, I will not go to see it unless I am convinced that they can fix some serious difficulties. Specifically, I would like to know the exact age of Mr. Jason White, the full exposure levels and energy expenditure levels of Kryptonite, and how the hell Superman can lift land masses laced with Kryptonite out into space while in the shade of said landmass, while still having trouble with a slowing a jet in full, constant exposure to yellow sunlight.

Arty is angry with these questions. But happy with getting a copy of Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut for Easter. Yay!

Whatever happens, I have firmly decided that if they make a sequel to Superman Returns, I will not go to see it unless I am convinced that they can fix some serious difficulties. Specifically, I would like to know the exact age of Mr. Jason White, the full exposure levels and energy expenditure levels of Kryptonite, and how the hell Superman can lift land masses laced with Kryptonite out into space while in the shade of said landmass, while still having trouble with a slowing a jet in full, constant exposure to yellow sunlight.

Arty is angry with these questions. But happy with getting a copy of Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut for Easter. Yay!

My best guess is that in all likelyhood, Superman can not simply exert his full power all at once against said jet without crushing it like a soda can. So he has to use a percentage of his strength and ramp it up gradually to slow or alter the course of a jet so he doesn't destroy it and kill the passengers.

On the landmass on the other hand, who cares? Just push that thing up there, doesn't matter!

when he tried to stop the plane, he ripped the wing right off which caused it to go into a spiral