NationStates Jolt Archive

Of all the countries that have tried (or claim to have tried) to attain communism, which country has come the closest?

Or, alternatively, which communist or self-proclaimed communist revolution was the most genuinely communistic?

Communism can not exist except on a world stage, socialism can work in one country but as everyone knows countries are not isolated entities, they must trade and have contact with other countries. Classes are not national entities, they exist wherever capitalist society exists.

Of all the countries that have tried (or claim to have tried) to attain communism, which country has come the closest?

Or, alternatively, which communist or self-proclaimed communist revolution was the most genuinely communistic?

I´m no Communist but I can safely say, at least in my opinion, that Russia and China have come the closest.

I´m no Communist but I can safely say, at least in my opinion, that Russia and China have come the closest.

Before falling into genocidal conquests, or purges of those that don't agree to give up their property.

I´m no Communist but I can safely say, at least in my opinion, that Russia and China have come the closest.

Well there's the question, where did the Soviets go wrong, Trots say it went wrong with Stalin, Marxist-Leninists (Maoists too) say it went wrong initially with Khrushchev and then Brezhnev.

Alot of people glorify Lenin yet attack Stalin, failing to realize that Lenin died in the middle of the NEP and Stalin had to finish that socialization of production, any 'socialist' who thinks NEP was the height of socialism is deluded. NEP was created because infrastructure in Russia was destroyed in the Civil War and their was no capitalist base of production with which to socialize, so Lenin afforded moderate development under NEP in order to socialize it later, which Stalin did under collectivization.

'Leninism' itself was a theory based upon the unique material conditions of Russia itself, so alot of it came from making an alliance between the workers and peasants, Lenin's other theories reflected the material conditions and politics of the time, so thus his theory of revolution in the third world and self-determination for peoples. Maoism also was about the different conditions of China, mainly the feudal state much of the country was in.

In the first world the peasant aspects of Marxism-Leninism are pretty irrelevant today, but the third world and self-determination aspects are still relevant. In the first world revolution will of course come in the cities.

Russia officially came the closest to true communism, and many out there share the fact that while it lasted, one could say that 'Leninsim" was a byword for real communism

'Stalinism' became the more facist version, pulling away from communism into a different bracket altogether

One could argue about 'Marxism', but then this ideal was begun by marx having seen british hippies living in a small community of their own, so i wouldnt put too much faith in it

"Long Live Leninism"

Not countries, but Israeli kibbutzim have come fairly close.

Not countries, but Israeli kibbutzim have come fairly close.

Without an overall national socialist state such experiments don't work, the Kibbutzim these days are capitalist.

I believe that Ocai-Amm's statement is based upon the fact that the Kibbutzim are/were (delete whichever is inappropriate) organised along collective lines internally. As they exist/ed within the framework of a larger capitalist entity (the early state of Israel) they were naturally capitalist in their relationship to the outside world. As you say, without collectivisation on a national scale they could not be socialist in their external relationships.

i know this is of topic but how many of the communists here are memberes of www.revleft.com ?

Not self-proclaimed communists of course, nor am I a communist by any stretch of the imagination, but it'd have to be some sort of commune (Paris, the Kibbutzim, the Ukrainian anarchists of 1919, various places in Spain).

I personally don't doubt the communist intentions of any revolutionary movement that came to power in the 20th century. But they were all so caught up in marxism that anything short of capitulation ("Sorry guys, it seems like capitalism wasn't actually finished yet afterall...we'll just give the country back to the ruling classes, yes?") was bound to end in suffering and failure.

The only people who even had a shot at success were those who did it for themselves and their friends and family, not for the nation, for some philosopher or for their "class".

Of all the countries that have tried (or claim to have tried) to attain communism, which country has come the closest?

No country has ever come close to it. Remember that communism is a long term goal which cannot be reached in a few years from capitalism (and even less from feodalism).

Or, alternatively, which communist or self-proclaimed communist revolution was the most genuinely communistic?

I would say Paris' Commune. But that's why they were slaughtered by the french bourgeoisie, helped by their foe of the previous, the prussian empire.

I´m no Communist but I can safely say, at least in my opinion, that Russia and China have come the closest.

China is one the countries most far from communism that exists ;)

Not a country, but probably something like the Paris Commune. Or Kronstadt Island.

Well, there were a bunch of nations that didn't last very long, so we never got to see how that would work out (ie, Hungarian Soviet Republic, Socialist Bavaria, etc). If I had to pick a nation, it would be the early Soviet Union, or possibly Cuba. The problem with Cuba is that it didn't start off with a huge industrial base, and while Russia did not either, it was substantionally more than most other nations to attempt communism/socialism/whatever. Of course there is the issue of the NEP and all that. If we weren't limited to nations, I'd say the Paris Commune.

Probably the anarchist areas of Spain during the Spanish Civil War were closest to achieving communism.

Well there's the question, where did the Soviets go wrong, When they opposed the Central Rada.