NationStates Jolt Archive

This question isn't about specific policies whether we're considering multicultural and cosmopolitan influences in sabotaging free markets or authoritarian heavyhandedness in undermining civil rights. Yes, we can consider things like illegal immigration and health care reform, the weakening dollar and housing markets, and undefined positions with regards to lobbyists and porkbarrel spending, but this question isn't about that.

This question is about whether or not America has lost its dignified responsibility about caring for its common citizen not because he IS a common citizen, but because America has forgotten what it means to be innovative and independent. In the 90's Japan collapsed due to the synthesizing of economics and morals into a politically correct culture via technological and academic shortsightedness. Is America on the same path of ignoring real humanity while campaigning for "equality" among all of mankind?

Of course it is. Just ask Fred Phelps. We're all doomed. And going to hell.

No, I don't think we're finished just yet. To really fuck over America, it's going to take a power-hungry demagogue who's a bit more competent than Bush, but instead of uniting America a la Hitler uniting Germany, he would have to divide America, causing civil struggle and a collapse of the economy and infrastructure.

Anything short of that, and we can bounce back.

Believe it or not, its been worse here.


We aint through yet.

...In the 90's Japan collapsed due to the synthesizing of economics and morals into a politically correct culture via technological and academic shortsightedness...

I'm not really all that fussed what happens to America but please explain what you mean by this comment about Japan. I don't get the allusion.

I'm sorry but how long have people been talking about X superpower falling now? when it does happen it will be when you least expect it take it from a Brit

also your whole act on why Japan suffered economic recession is bunk get with the times already

Theoretically, you should be able to exactly calculate the resting place of a pool ball given the velocity with which you strike it and the angle it bounces off the cushion.

In practice, imperfections on the ball itself, disparities in the bounce of the cushion, difference in the felt, any number of factors will mean that it's actually impossible to accurately determine where that ball will come to rest.

I feel that this is what is happening to some extent in many first world countries. As our lives becomes increasingly stable, when the realities of life affect us less and less, we look to ideals, we have the time and comfort to state how things ought to be.

Instead of having to deal with life itself, cocooned as we are in comfy houses, fed each day and entertained by TV, film and the gloss of life, we become numb to real decisions, real choices.

If you've never had to really make a choice, a choice that really means something, you can become divorced from reality because nothing really means anything. We see from these very boards that what one person deems correct, another deems incorrect. What is true?

This is where the problem arises, we can all pretend that life is equal, that people should treat others with respect, blind to prejudice and we can extrapolate from that pretence how life should be. A disconnect appears, between what we think the world is like and what the world is really like. We make decisions based off false assumptions.

Ultimately, life is the difference between our reality and our ideals, we live through one while striving for the other. Currently, the problem is that the divide between these two is becoming greater and greater, made no better by TV shows with neat, easy answers and politicians spouting the same.

That disconnect is dangerous.

I'm not sure if in looking to write neatly I've summed up the idea neatly, a mirror of the problem I'm looking to describe.

SNIP

congratulations (and tribulations) you just described modern art, Hitler will not be pleased

Is America through what?

The 20th century?

Most of us are. New Jersey and Louisiana will catch up sooner or later.

Through Winter? Sudoku?
Through the Hollywood writers strike?
Through bombing bearded medieval theocratic freakazoids?

Are we Through Just Playing Games and Messing with People's Heads?

Or Through sucking down 5 dollar, 1500 calorie grande cappamochacaramelcinos? (Decaf)

you gotta be more specific on these things.

congratulations (and tribulations) you just described modern art, Hitler will not be pleased

This chainsaw that I stuck into this chunk of concrete represents loss of innocence, and a hope for a brighter tomorrow for the American people...

...

No seriously, I've seen stranger.

congratulations (and tribulations) you just described modern art, Hitler will not be pleased

Dammit, I was aiming for post-modern.

We see from these very boards that what one person deems correct, another deems incorrect.

Did I fail?

Yes, I'm through with America. She doesn't care any more. She hasn't returned my calls, she doesn't speak to me when I pass her in the hallway, she's awfully cosy with that weird guy...

Sorry, I had to.

This chainsaw that I stuck into this chunk of concrete represents loss of innocence, and a hope for a brighter tomorrow for the American people...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9c/Mondrian_Comp10.jpg

a painting started in Europe and finished in America is how I think the west should be viewed now, one blank canvass painted with an individuals interpretation of the world

...I just like to feel arty sometimes

America is on its way out - there are just so many other nationalities carving out their own small empires from within the US

I could say that when american falls apart the world would be a better place, but first I have to know which will be the next world superpower

If its china, ill consider gunshot to my head

If america stays in power, we're screwed, if china takes over, we're screwed

[gunshot wound to my head = screw you guys, ill let you deal with that problem]

America is on its way out - there are just so many other nationalities carving out their own small empires from within the US



Um. No. There fucking isnt.

We're not 'through' any more than Portugal is 'through.' Our turn at the 'top' (however that's defined) will come to an end, just like everyone else who has held that mantle, but that doesn't mean we're 'through.'

America is on its way out - there are just so many other nationalities carving out their own small empires from within the US

I could say that when american falls apart the world would be a better place, but first I have to know which will be the next world superpower

If its china, ill consider gunshot to my head

Oh, well you know, I think it'll be China. They have the power, the potential, the population; they are an egg waiting to hatch, a fruit ready to ripen into global supremacy.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9c/Mondrian_Comp10.jpg

a painting started in Europe and finished in America is how I think the west should be viewed now, one blank canvass painted with an individuals interpretation of the world

...I just like to feel arty sometimes

Now you see when I look at that, I just see some lines and a couple of colorful squares. Call me unimaginative. :p

Oh, well you know, I think it'll be China. They have the power, the potential, the population; they are an egg waiting to hatch, a fruit ready to ripen into global supremacy.

Now if they can just get over this whole police state thing then we'll be cool.

Did I fail?

No, your just doing it wrong.

Yup, we're completely done for. The US has never had an economic crisis, a bad president, or a war against a tough opponent. On my calendar, the day after June 1st, 1926 is June 2nd 1946, and everthing's been completely rosy since 1900. :rolleyes:

first I have to know which will be the next world superpower

If its china, ill consider gunshot to my head

The US is giving China plenty of opportunity to creating a worldwide empire. China seems to be snuggling up to any nation that the US decides to piss off, whether it be in central and south america, the middle east or elsewhere.

Yup, we're completely done for. The US has never had an economic crisis, a bad president, or a war against a tough opponent. On my calendar, the day after June 1st, 1926 is June 2nd 1946, and everthing's been completely rosy since 1900. :rolleyes:

LOL

Yup, we're completely done for. The US has never had an economic crisis, a bad president, or a war against a tough opponent. On my calendar, the day after June 1st, 1926 is June 2nd 1946, and everthing's been completely rosy since 1900. :rolleyes:

"Results from the past are no guarantee for the future", as Dutch advertisements for investment funds are obliged to say these days...

Yup, we're completely done for. The US has never had an economic crisis, a bad president, or a war against a tough opponent. On my calendar, the day after June 1st, 1926 is June 2nd 1946, and everthing's been completely rosy since 1900. :rolleyes:

I like this guy.

"Results from the past are no guarantee for the future", as Dutch advertisements for investment funds are obliged to say these days...

True, but they can be indicative of future results...

We're not 'through' any more than Portugal is 'through.' Our turn at the 'top' (however that's defined) will come to an end, just like everyone else who has held that mantle, but that doesn't mean we're 'through.'

Bingo.

Oh, well you know, I think it'll be China. They have the power, the potential, the population; they are an egg waiting to hatch, a fruit ready to ripen into global supremacy.

Now if they can just get over this whole police state thing then we'll be cool.



I think in 50 or 60 years India will be more of a "superpower" than China will be.

China's prosperity will be it's undoing, as I don't see the people putting up with authoritarianism for very much longer without having a true say in how things are done. The turnover will be many things, but orderly is unlikely.

While there is still this issue to some extent in India, things are far more progressive politically, which will help immensely.

I was considering answering a handful of responses on a one to one basis, but I felt that what Barringtonia said was the most reflective of my own opinion:

Theoretically, you should be able to exactly calculate the resting place of a pool ball given the velocity with which you strike it and the angle it bounces off the cushion.

In practice, imperfections on the ball itself, disparities in the bounce of the cushion, difference in the felt, any number of factors will mean that it's actually impossible to accurately determine where that ball will come to rest.

I feel that this is what is happening to some extent in many first world countries. As our lives becomes increasingly stable, when the realities of life affect us less and less, we look to ideals, we have the time and comfort to state how things ought to be.

Instead of having to deal with life itself, cocooned as we are in comfy houses, fed each day and entertained by TV, film and the gloss of life, we become numb to real decisions, real choices.

If you've never had to really make a choice, a choice that really means something, you can become divorced from reality because nothing really means anything. We see from these very boards that what one person deems correct, another deems incorrect. What is true?

This is where the problem arises, we can all pretend that life is equal, that people should treat others with respect, blind to prejudice and we can extrapolate from that pretence how life should be. A disconnect appears, between what we think the world is like and what the world is really like. We make decisions based off false assumptions.

Ultimately, life is the difference between our reality and our ideals, we live through one while striving for the other. Currently, the problem is that the divide between these two is becoming greater and greater, made no better by TV shows with neat, easy answers and politicians spouting the same.

That disconnect is dangerous.

I'm not sure if in looking to write neatly I've summed up the idea neatly, a mirror of the problem I'm looking to describe.

Personally, I don't believe America is destined for failure in that many other empires of the world lasted far longer than America did while dealing with far more dire straits. Thx Slobovia for bringing this up, but I didn't quite get the dates you noted since the most notable Google results were Marilyn Monroe's Birth and the conversion of Italy into a Republic. Could you clarify?

America hasn't even been around for a quarter of a century, and following the cold war there was a recognizable reduction in neoconservative thought. Reagan himself only wanted to keep neoconservatives around in order to reinforce defense principles and national pride as can be seen by his combined focuses on small and efficient government and the freedom to let citizens choose for themselves what is morally sound. With this came a technological revolution that gave lower and middle class Americans (as well as people worldwide) the opportunity to become something economically and emotionally significant. With the development of telecommunication, medicine, energy, and transportation technology, the 90's was a decade where it seemed that America would become a growing world leader in humanitarian and libertarian fortitude.

But somehow we lost it. A lot of people blame the government for its poor handling of catastrophes like 9/11, Hurricane Katrina, and the collapse of Education and Social Security as well as the threats towards health care and monetary integrity, but politicians had been under increasing pressure to satisfy those they represent. Citizens were more capable to communicate and complain to politicians, and more and more media outlets were investigating and uncovering secrets that politicians hid in order to stay untarnished. We could discuss that in order to avoid harsh competition, politicians became lazy and simply offered programs and funding to silence those who bothered them, but I'd rather look at the common Americans who let government become such an aberration.

I agree with those who say that Americans got caught up in The McDonaldization of Society (http://myweb.stedwards.edu/mikef/mcdonize.htm) and didn't care about how wealth was leaving America through globalization motivated by corporations trying to avoid American politics while appearing socially responsible in developing countries. Wealth is what makes any entity, be it an individual or an institution, prosperous and respectable in a world dominated by economic incentive, and by focusing more on casual normative thought instead of realistically pursuing our potential, we ignored this dominance and became vulnerably soft. Sensitivity to human rights and cultural development is one thing, but to say that double standards are proper governing and living standards is absurd.

With regards to the questions I've gotten about Japan's predicament, the financial bubble that burst under Japan's economy was a result of how overinflated land prices and poor accounting practices were tolerated in Japanese banks (http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/bubble.htm). This policy was permitted due to how the prevalence of the Keiretsu in Japanese business resulted in a melding of economic incentive with moral fundamentals in Japanese culture. By exploiting Japan's focus on avoiding embarrassment and shame, executives and middle management encouraged corporate culture to develop such that anyone who did not behave as a company's miser was to be outcast (resulting in tremendous career difficulties even if the individual and his family decided to switch industries). Additionally, the Keiretsu's control over government allowed it to lobby for laws that restricted land sales and audit requirements so that debt could be claimed against overvalued assets. This allowed fake liquid to keep Japanese markets afloat while inflation grew until the market couldn't accept it any longer (via both economic and media revelations).