NationStates Jolt Archive

So a few Mexicans attempt to rob some place, and the judge made an example out of them. I hope more of them get this kind of punishment.

A judge in Luzerne County has stirred up quite the controversy with an order that four men must learn English or spend time behind bars.

The men are not U.S. citizens but they are in this country legally. They recently pleaded guilty to an attempted robbery in Hazleton.

Luzerne County Judge Peter Paul Olszewski sentenced them to get their high school equivalency degrees, get jobs and learn English or else face jail time.

The judge said he did it not to punish the men, but to help them.

http://www.wnep.com/Global/story.asp?S=8080487&nav=5ka4

Obviously, it's a well known fact that Mexicans are incapable of learning another language, so this will most likely end with jail time.

..

No, I'm kidding. I think this is actually a really good idea, and I'm kind of surprised that this happened in Hazleton.

Thoughts?

:eek: there are rational, reasonable people working for the us justice system??

So that's what I get for reading the title and voting before reading the post. Change that "terrible" to a "great," at least in your own minds. Thanks!

Misleading thread title aside, I like this Judge's style. It's a good idea.

This makes a surprising amount of sense.

Maybe the US should just invade Mexico. At this point maybe it would do us (and possibly them) more good than invading any part of the middle east. I don't think Mexico is going to threaten to bomb us though, so that won't work.

I like these kind of punishments.

Cant you get a diploma in jail anyways?

jails are too overcrowded as it is, besides they do not make for good learning environments

The OP is not just deceptive regarding the sentence handed out (and, yes, I get the joke), but also in saying that those sentenced were illegal immigrants. The article rather clearly says the men were here legally.

Misleading thread title aside, I like this Judge's style. It's a good idea.

Judges who utilize positive creativity are a boon to the justice system and to society as a whole.

The OP is not just deceptive regarding the sentence handed out (and, yes, I get the joke), but also in saying that those sentenced were illegal immigrants. The article rather clearly says the men were here legally.

Indeed. It is an attempted robbery that the men are being punished for.

No doubt if any cable news networks follow this, they will completely miss this point and start banging on about "Illegals".

The article rather clearly says the men were here legally.

Ruffy is rather clearly deprived of sleep and will now edit the op.

Ruffy is rather clearly deprived of sleep and will now edit the op.

ROFL!

Man.. I just got the joke. Ha!
Heh..

Anyway, sounds like a good idea. If you are going to jail, might as well get something out of it.

ehhh.... wait till it'll get appealed

The effectiveness of this will probably depend on their actual personality. If they're not willing to reform, it won't work any better than jail in the long run. But at least this way, they probably won't become more hardened criminals while they're under the scrutiny of the legal system.

I knew a guy who'd been stuck with a work-or-jail ultimatum--he had to keep a job for a certain number of years. He hated the work, and was pretty unproductive compared to the average employee, but he kept at it because he thought jail sucked worse. But he was practically counting off the days until the Law stopped watching him and he could go back to his old ways. There was no reformative value in the experience for him, just a reinforcement that employment was a BS way to make money. Unfortunately, he was too ignorant and lacking in common sense to make money legally any other way, and way too anti-intellectual to ever change that.

So I would say that the reform-value of the sentence the Mexicans got depends on whether they end up convinced that going legit is preferable. Being forced to up their education level is a great add-on that should improve their chances considerably, if they retain enough info to do more than bluff by the test.

Fergi America;13561055']The effectiveness of this will probably depend on their actual personality. If they're not willing to reform, it won't work any better than jail in the long run. But at least this way, they probably won't become more hardened criminals while they're under the scrutiny of the legal system.

[SNIP!]

So I would say that the reform-value of the sentence the Mexicans got depends on whether they end up convinced that going legit is preferable. Being forced to up their education level is a great add-on that should improve their chances considerably, if they retain enough info to do more than bluff by the test.

As long as they're not forced to work at McDonalds or something, I am optimistic that these men will come out of this as better individuals.

Learn English? What the hell does learn English mean anyway? To what level? How long do they have? To what purpose?

I have a feeling that the judge doesn't know what he's talking about when he says learn English.

Learn English? What the hell does learn English mean anyway? To what level? How long do they have? To what purpose?

I have a feeling that the judge doesn't know what he's talking about when he says learn English.
The judge isn't quoted directly as saying "Learn English," so I have a feeling that the actual sentence involves passing some sort of Aptitude test or taking Night Classes for a while, but the person writing the story dumbed things down for the average Ruffino.

ehhh.... wait till it'll get appealed

The attorneys for the men have not stated an intention to appeal.

I don't think they should. Appeal would simply rule out this "innovative" aspect and they'd get jail.

The judge really is trying to help these guys who are plainly at a huge disadvantage in the job market. They should take the hint, and if they can't pass the school diploma at the end of the specified time (can't see what that is, but anyway) then they still have options. Including jail.

It's a great idea. Good on ya, judge!

I like it, but I have to wonder if the fact the U.S. doesn't have an official language would mean the "English" part is unenforceable.

I like it, but I have to wonder if the fact the U.S. doesn't have an official language would mean the "English" part is unenforceable.Indeed.
Besides, does Hazleton really need more people speaking in Cockney accents?

With that said, it is nice that there is a way for them to stay out of jail. There are better ways of going about it, though.

*sentences Ruffy to learn Spanish*

I don't think this is such a noble idea. While it sounds great because it should benefit society and the men in the long run. What about our legal system that is in place to punish those that commit crimes? So any non-English speaking immigrant can just rob a store since they will only have to learn English as their punishment?

What of the guy in the next cell that already speaks English that also robbed a store? Does he get to learn Spanish as his "punishment"? :confused:

So a few Mexicans attempt to rob some place, and the judge made an example out of them. I hope more of them get this kind of punishment.
...
No, I'm kidding. I think this is actually a really good idea, and I'm kind of surprised that this happened in Hazleton.

Thoughts?
Bad idea. Prison is exactly what these people need. Robbery implies force was used in the attempt. Being let go isn't a suitable punishment.

This makes a surprising amount of sense.

Maybe the US should just invade Mexico. At this point maybe it would do us (and possibly them) more good than invading any part of the middle east. I don't think Mexico is going to threaten to bomb us though, so that won't work.

been there done that, eh?

I like it, but I have to wonder if the fact the U.S. doesn't have an official language would mean the "English" part is unenforceable.
He has already sentenced them to jail, a perfectly valid sentence; he has the authority to commute their sentence also, if they satisfy him.

:eek: there are rational, reasonable people working for the us justice system??

Sweet Merciful Crap!!

There actually ARE that type of law enforcers in America

and here i thought that judge who put the statue with the 10 commandments outside his courthouse was the only one
:)

Ooh, ahh, how progressive. It's not quite so fascist as being deported in leaky refugee boats, so it's to be celebrated.

Fuck that! As if learning English somehow means you won't commit crimes.

Cuz everyone knows that a major factor in crime is being Hispanic, especially speaking in the actual language of Hispanish! Also they are here to take our jobs. Also they might be terrorists. Everyone should be required by law to learn the language of the fatherland.

Ooh, ahh, how progressive. It's not quite so fascist as being deported in leaky refugee boats, so it's to be celebrated.

Fuck that! As if learning English somehow means you won't commit crimes.

Cuz everyone knows that a major factor in crime is being Hispanic, especially speaking in the actual language of Hispanish! Also they are here to take our jobs. Also they might be terrorists. Everyone should be required by law to learn the language of the fatherland.

Being hispanic isnt a factor in crime, but being unemployed is and not being able to speak english in the USA could have a major effect on your chances of being employed.

He has already sentenced them to jail, a perfectly valid sentence; he has the authority to commute their sentence also, if they satisfy him.

I know. My problem is that part of his sentence just doesn't seem enforceable- the part about the job, he can enforce but the part about having to learn English might not be (since the U.S. doesn't have an official language, meaning there's nothing they *have* to learn). If one of the Mexicans challenge the ruling (which they probably won't) they may have a leg to stand on.