NationStates Jolt Archive

I've been working on my con-worlding again, and was wondering about an alternate respiratory path for terrestrial organisms - a "gill lung". It's semi-based on the idea of the "labyrinth organ" present in some fish, but expanded into more of a lung. I was thinking an organ where air enters via gill-like slits into an organ like a labyrinth organ crossed with a book lung, and is "exhaled" through a second set of "gill-slits".

What say you? Any suggestions?

I've been working on my con-worlding again, and was wondering about an alternate respiratory path for terrestrial organisms - a "gill lung". It's semi-based on the idea of the "labyrinth organ" present in some fish, but expanded into more of a lung. I was thinking an organ where air enters via gill-like slits into an organ like a labyrinth organ crossed with a book lung, and is "exhaled" through a second set of "gill-slits".

What say you? Any suggestions?

yeah like, I don't understand no nuthin' of your theory, from the very beginning about the "con-worlding" to the very last about the "second set of gill-slits".
We all know lungs evolved from the gas bladder in fishes, your radical ideas are not welcome here. :(

I imagine it would be possible, but I'm not sure it would be able to get the necessary airflow (and therefore Oxygen exchange) to sustain a large organism.

-snipped foolish off topic rant-

Welcome to ignore, troll.

Anyone have anything useful to add?

I've been working on my con-worlding again, and was wondering about an alternate respiratory path for terrestrial organisms - a "gill lung". It's semi-based on the idea of the "labyrinth organ" present in some fish, but expanded into more of a lung. I was thinking an organ where air enters via gill-like slits into an organ like a labyrinth organ crossed with a book lung, and is "exhaled" through a second set of "gill-slits".

What say you? Any suggestions?Reminds me a little bit of avian lungs, except that you'll have an exit point different from the entry point..

I imagine it would be possible, but I'm not sure it would be able to get the necessary airflow (and therefore Oxygen exchange) to sustain a large organism.

That was what I was thinking when I thought of expanding it into a more lung like structure. More or less whta I'm thinking is an evolutionary step in a "labyrinth organ" type set up. Something to the effect of a scale/boney "lung", with inspiration at one end and expiration at the other.

Reminds me a little bit of avian lungs, except that you'll have an exit point different from the entry point..

That seems to be exactly vwhat I'm looking for. :D

How would you have the air flow take place?

In human lungs, the diaphragm forces air in and out of our torso. Book lungs don't seem to require airflow, but if I recall from my Intro to biology, this limits the size of the organism, i.e. they gotta be bug size. While the labyrinth organ requires the fish to swallow air, from what I can tell.

I guess you would need some sort of 'pump' as well as an entry and exit point.

How would you have the air flow take place?

In human lungs, the diaphragm forces air in and out of our torso. Book lungs don't seem to require airflow, but if I recall from my Intro to biology, this limits the size of the organism, i.e. they gotta be bug size. While the labyrinth organ requires the fish to swallow air, from what I can tell.

I guess you would need some sort of 'pump' as well as an entry and exit point.

I'm rather keen on the avian lung suggested above.

Here's a description I found:
Unlike mammals and non-dinosaurian reptiles that have a bellows-like
ventilation system, it takes *two* inhalation/exhalation cycles for air to
move in and out of a bird. In a bird lung, new air comes in one end of the
lung and the used air goes out the other end. One set of air sacs store
air
before it's ready to enter the lungs, and another set of air sacs store air
until it's ready to be breathed out. The sequence of bird breathing, as I
understand it, is as follows:

Inhalation #1: Air inhaled into posterior air sacs;
Exhalation #1: Spent air is expelled via the mouth from anterior sacs and
previously inhaled air moves from posterior sacs into the lungs;
Inhalation #2: New air is inhaled into posterior sacs and previously
inhaled
air moves out of lungs to anterior sacs;
Exhalation #2: Inhaled air #1 is expelled from anterior sacs via the mouth.
http://dml.cmnh.org/1998Jul/msg00929.html

Essentially, I'll be making this completely unidirectional by having an anterior opening for expelling exhaled air.

I'm rather keen on the avian lung suggested above.

Here's a description I found:

http://dml.cmnh.org/1998Jul/msg00929.html

Essentially, I'll be making this completely unidirectional by having an anterior opening for expelling exhaled air.

Expelling air through the mouth allows birds to sing, I guess. Your beings could also use this anterior opening for making sounds.

Expelling air through the mouth allows birds to sing, I guess. Your beings could also use this anterior opening for making sounds.

I like, I like. I'll have to have someone swear "Great farting dinosaurs!" :D

I like, I like. I'll have to have someone swear "Great farting dinosaurs!" :D

Well, technically the intake and exhalation wouldn't have to be on opposite ends. You could have a species that breathes in through the nose and out through the mouth, or in one set of nostrils and out the other, etc...

I need to get back into Starfire. I miss coming up with this stuff.

Here's the class I came up with. Note, it's supposed to be a bird-like animal evolved from the bony fish. It's got bits and peices of fish, avian, and pterosaur anatomy all tossed into a parallel evolutionary high speed blender. :)

Volantipiscia

Volantipiscia are bipedal, warm-blooded, vertebrate animals that lay eggs. There are around 10,000 species. They inhabit a wide variety of ecosystems and range in size from 5 cm to 15 m. They are characterised by feather-like scales, elongated fully-toothed jaws, long tails, the laying of hard-shelled eggs, a high metabolic rate, a four-chambered heart, a lightweight but strong skeleton, a respiratory system that is highly adapted for flight, and forelimb-fins modified as wings. Most can fly.

The skeletal system is characterized by a stable pattern of fused cranial bones, a sclerotic ring of several small bones supporting the eye. The ocular orbits are large and separated by a bony septum. The inner ear contains large otoliths. The spine has cervical, thoracic, lumbar and caudal regions with the number of cervical vertebrae highly variable and especially flexible, but movement is reduced in the anterior thoracic vertebrae and absent in the later vertebrae. The last few are fused with the pelvis. The ribs are flattened and the sternum is keeled for the attachment of flight muscles. In some species, the backbone over the shoulders is fused into a structure which serves to stiffen the torso during flight, and provide a stable support for the scapula.

The forelimbs are modified into wings. The wings are formed by membranes of skin and other tissues, strengthened by various types of closely spaced fibers called actinofibrillae. The membranes attach to the extremely long fourth finger of each limb and extend along the sides of the body. A bone connected to the wrist helps to support a membrane between the wrist and shoulder. In some species, the wing membrane is attached to the hindlimbs, at least in some species. However, there is considerable variation in the extent of the wing membranes, and different species have different wing designs. Many species also have webbed feet, for swimming. These also have an aerodynamic function.

The pulmonary system uses "flow-through ventilation," relying on a set of flexible air sacs that act like bellows to move air through the rigid boney lungs. These lungs do not have alveoli, but instead contain millions of tiny passages known as para-bronchi, connected at both ends by the dorsobronchi and that the airflow through the lung always travels in the same direction - posterior to anterior. By utilizing a unidirectional flow of air, they are able to extract a greater concentration of oxygen from inhaled air. The pulmonary cycle works as follows: air is inhaled into posterior air sacs, spent air is expelled into the anterior sacs and is expelled via anterior slits,. and the inhaled air moves from the posterior sacs into the lungs. This system allows flight at high altitudes and a higher metabolic rate. A portion of the air sac actually integrates with the skeleton, forming air pockets in otherwise dense bone. These skeletal air pockets lighten the bone structure, assisting in flight.

I've been working on my con-worlding again, and was wondering about an alternate respiratory path for terrestrial organisms - a "gill lung". It's semi-based on the idea of the "labyrinth organ" present in some fish, but expanded into more of a lung. I was thinking an organ where air enters via gill-like slits into an organ like a labyrinth organ crossed with a book lung, and is "exhaled" through a second set of "gill-slits".

What say you? Any suggestions?

Just a thought, look at the lung-like structure of arachnids. They have pre-lung flaps that operate almost like a gill, in a sort of lung/gill hybrid. It's located on the bottom of the spider's abdomen, google it.

Just a thought, look at the lung-like structure of arachnids. They have pre-lung flaps that operate almost like a gill, in a sort of lung/gill hybrid. It's located on the bottom of the spider's abdomen, google it.

AKA the book lung I mentioned, that's already been put down for matters of scale. ;)