NationStates Jolt Archive

I wanted to create a thread where people can come and debate their religious beliefs. It seems that on most threads around people are pretty opinionated about their beliefs and seem to get what others believe wrong. This thread is a chance for you to post your beliefs and compare them with others around you. So let’s hear about what you believe or don’t believe and compare faiths.

The last thing we need on here is another Religion thread.

I believe that any sport worth playing is worth playing in mud. I question the athletic and entertainment value of any sport that cannot be played in mud.

I'm an ex-Catholic, ex-atheist, somewhat now agnostic who is still trying to understand 'God' to best of my abilities.

I'm an agnostic atheist. I was an catholic untill recently, but I've come to believe that the only way to create a better world is by letting go of the notion that (a) god holds the key. We are the key.

I was a Lutheran, then an agnostic/athiest (depended on how bad my bad hair day was) and now I'm an Asatruar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-4VOLeKBOw - There we go.

I was a Lutheran, then an agnostic/athiest (depended on how bad my bad hair day was) and now I'm an Asatruar.

whats an Asutuar?

I'm an Atheist.

And know what, I can explain why I believe it. I came to believe this of my accord. To me, this is one of the most important elements of any set of beliefs; being able to explain why you believe what you believe. Beyond "because this is what I was taught".

I was raised by two Atheists/Agnostics, with my father being an ex-Catholic, and having been baptised Catholic. I came to understand that I believe the same as my parents after trying out Christianity (Catholicism, but just in beliefs, to see if it fit me before I went in further) briefly in grade 9... the Christian Fellowship at my high school drove me to believe there was no God. They made religion seem so... prudish.

Then there was my friend who converted from Catholicism to Islam, who suggested that there was no religion suited to me other than Atheism because I didn't have the discipline to put up with the stupidity of religion... he was right.

I wound up listening to him in the end after I gave Buddhism a try. Meditation yielded nothing other than relaxation... and that it wasn't for me. No religion was.

I figured that at the end of the day I am an Atheist. Partially influenced by the fact that I took several history classes and everything in history involving religion left a sour taste in my mouth. The World Religions class I took helped me understand further...

Anyone I asked who believed in God couldn't satisfy my question of why should we believe in God, and what was the point.

The moment I shared a beer with my stepfather because he wanted to know why I picked Atheism really solidified my stance. I was 19 years old.

LOL @ yootopia

whats an Asutuar?

If he means Asatru, then he is likely a hairy dude that shouts Blot! a lot and drinks mead!

If he means Asatru, then he is likely a hairy dude that shouts Blot! a lot and drinks mead!

haha In that case: I wanna be an Asatru tooXD

Answering the OP's question though.

I belive in the one eternal formless God, no heaven no hell, no punishment, free will, al Gods are aspects of the one, God is Truth.

I believe that taking off my work boots without sufficient ventilation is a health hazard.

If he means Asatru, then he is likely a hairy dude that shouts Blot! a lot and drinks mead!

Answering the OP's question though.

I belive in the one eternal formless God, no heaven no hell, no punishment, free will, al Gods are aspects of the one, God is Truth.

So what you're saying is that your God is everything, everywhere and forever?

i believe that humans are wired to make connections. we are wired to believe.

over the ages we have made stuff up that fit our circumstances. these became the religions of today.

none of them are true.

I believe I can fly
I believe I can touch the sky
I think about it every night and day
Spread my wings and fly away
I believe I can soar
I see me running through that open door
I believe I can fly
I believe I can fly
I believe I can fly

Uh, atheist.

Polytheist. My beliefs are slewhere in General if you care to dig.

Atheist. Scientist.

I do believe the species is screwed, though.

I believe in our Lord, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, who came down from the high seas to save our children from public school creationism, and our cooking recipes from unholy tastes. May you be blessed by His Noodly Appendage.

Animist polytheist. I believe the entire universe and pretty much everything in it has a soul and a spirit and a self. If I am in doubt about whether any given thing has those features, I choose to assume it does, just to err on the side of safety. Thus I try to treat everything (not just everyone) the way I would like to be treated, if I were it/them/whatever. I believe souls exist and are eternal and independent and that death is merely another change we go through, like any other.

I believe the point of life is to have a good time.

I believe what goes around, comes around.

I believe that gods exist, but few have anything to do with my life, and most are more trouble than they are worth. I don't need their help that much.

I am a Christian. I am not a catholic or any other denomination but a Christian. I follow Christ. I don’t believe in pushing my faith on others but I will share what I believe with people. It’s up to them to decide what to do with what I share with them.

I am a Christian. I am not a catholic or any other denomination but a Christian. I follow Christ. I don’t believe in pushing my faith on others but I will share what I believe with people. It’s up to them to decide what to do with what I share with them.

When you say you will share what you believe, you mean if other people ask first, right?

Secular Humanist

I believe that any sport worth playing is worth playing in mud. I question the athletic and entertainment value of any sport that cannot be played in mud.

Now is that "cannot" or "should not". I can think of at least a handful of tennis players who I'd rather enjoy see playing in mud -- though I imagine most professional women's tennis players are either lesbians or far too uptight to ever try it.

I'm an Atheist.

And know what, I can explain why I believe it. I came to believe this of my accord. To me, this is one of the most important elements of any set of beliefs; being able to explain why you believe what you believe. Beyond "because this is what I was taught".

I was raised by two Atheists/Agnostics, with my father being an ex-Catholic, and having been baptised Catholic. I came to understand that I believe the same as my parents after trying out Christianity (Catholicism, but just in beliefs, to see if it fit me before I went in further) briefly in grade 9... the Christian Fellowship at my high school drove me to believe there was no God. They made religion seem so... prudish.

Then there was my friend who converted from Catholicism to Islam, who suggested that there was no religion suited to me other than Atheism because I didn't have the discipline to put up with the stupidity of religion... he was right.

I wound up listening to him in the end after I gave Buddhism a try. Meditation yielded nothing other than relaxation... and that it wasn't for me. No religion was.

I figured that at the end of the day I am an Atheist. Partially influenced by the fact that I took several history classes and everything in history involving religion left a sour taste in my mouth. The World Religions class I took helped me understand further...

Anyone I asked who believed in God couldn't satisfy my question of why should we believe in God, and what was the point.

The moment I shared a beer with my stepfather because he wanted to know why I picked Atheism really solidified my stance. I was 19 years old.

This, ladies and gentlemen of NSG, is the important distinction. Kz has actually gone out and given religion a good faith effort and discovered that it wasn't the way to go. It doesn't matter what conclusion you draw, so long as you have drawn it yourself. I bow in respect *bows*.

As for me, I try to avoid labels, but if pressed, I'd cop to being a Karmic Deist. I believe that what we put out comes back to us, good or bad. Karma isn't judgmental or polarized, it just is. The Deism part comes from my being unable to find any scientific reason for my response to aesthetic stimuli. Whether it's natural or man-made, I believe there is a spirit within each of us that responds to Beauty as we perceive it. The conclusion I have drawn, after my own experiences as a baptized Episcopalian and sitting in on many church's services and events, is that I don't believe that this spirit needs to be prayed to, implored or feared beyond a healthy respect. The notion that "our God is a jealous God" when jealousy itself is supposed to be a sin kinda helped me to that conclusion...among other things.

Sometimes no and sometimes yes. If I think someone is open to hearing it then I will but if they shut me out then I back off. Forcing someone to listen or pushing it on them only pushes them farther away and that not what I want to happen. So many people have religion crammed down their throats that they don’t need it from me. If someone were bashing my beliefs then yes I will share or if I see another Christian struggling then yes I will. I share my faith with anyone who is willing to listen. My job as a Christian is to plant and water the seed and God’s job is to make it grow.

Sometimes no and sometimes yes. If I think someone is open to hearing it then I will but if they shut me out then I back off. Forcing someone to listen or pushing it on them only pushes them farther away and that not what I want to happen. So many people have religion crammed down their throats that they don’t need it from me. If someone were bashing my beliefs then yes I will share or if I see another Christian struggling then yes I will. I share my faith with anyone who is willing to listen. My job as a Christian is to plant and water the seed and God’s job is to make it grow.
Oh.

Well, in that case, bye.

I'm atheist for the same reasons I don't believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. I've seen lots of imposters, things twisted or reshaped to FIT the idea that they were the workings of a god, but no real proof. Just smoke and mirrors.

I was raised in the South - my mother and father were both not very religious at all, so I was generally free to explore. I had many friends who wanted me to attend church with them, so I dabbled in Christianity kind of a bit. But while everyone just seemed either so EXCITED or so MOVED . . . I felt nothing. I'd look at the rejoicers like they were crazy or drunk. I'd look at the weepers like they were lunatics. I felt this whole irritating sense of . . . flippancy. For every example of Christ's "love", I could read several passages of God's wrath. It read like a recovering alcoholic, one that used to get drunk and beat his wife, who now wants to be all about peace and love and reconciliation. It left a foul taste in my mouth.

And the Christians themselves - mostly such hypocrites. PK's (preacher's kids) were notorious for being some of the most sexually licentious kids in school, or who would lie to their parents and generally disobey them. They'd go on about Jesus' love for everyone, yet pick on the fat kid. They'd outright USE their religion as a dressed up face for their own prejudices and hatred. If religion was EVER a good thing in theory, mankind absolutely destroyed it in practise.

Of course, I always get the "Don't let the 'bad Christians' dissuade you from knowing God". And I'm always insulted, because if I felt there was ANY truth behind those scriptures, then no amount of loudmouthed, hypocritical Bible thumpers would be able to dissuade me from seeking truth. But I don't see any truth in Christianity, or any other of the world's religions as we know them. I see a patriarchal system of government, an omnipotent Boogeyman installed so that people would have an easier time keeping order. Divine providence is one of the oldest tools in the book for establishing yourself as a king.

I see no proof whatsoever of a god beyond what someone else "said". I can't even infer the existence of a god from the world we live in - omnipotence, omniscience, and omni benevolence can't possibly coexist in any deity that oversees this particular planet. It's a philosophical contradiction.

Furthermore - on the off chance that I was ever proven wrong, if there actually WERE a god? I'd still be an atheist. I feel no obligation to serve any god, whether one were to have created me or not.

Animist polytheist. I believe the entire universe and pretty much everything in it has a soul and a spirit and a self. If I am in doubt about whether any given thing has those features, I choose to assume it does, just to err on the side of safety. Thus I try to treat everything (not just everyone) the way I would like to be treated, if I were it/them/whatever. I believe souls exist and are eternal and independent and that death is merely another change we go through, like any other.

I believe the point of life is to have a good time.

I believe what goes around, comes around.

I believe that gods exist, but few have anything to do with my life, and most are more trouble than they are worth. I don't need their help that much.

Agreed, completely.

Now is that "cannot" or "should not". I can think of at least a handful of tennis players who I'd rather enjoy see playing in mud -- though I imagine most professional women's tennis players are either lesbians or far too uptight to ever try it.


I see some major logistical difficulties associated with mud tennis. Perhaps insurmountable ones. Same thing with basketball. But then again, I don't hold those sports in particularly high regard anyway so my statement still stands. *nod*

"our God is a jealous God"

The, I would guess irony, here is that for their god to be jealous, he would have to have someone to be jealous of, no? That in and of itself seems to undermine the concept of one god only. If I am the only human ever, I can't be jealous of the guy with the big house, can I?

This is why I love my polytheistic beliefs. I have my own sitcom right at my fingertips, and higher quality then most of what's on TV. How can you not be entertained by the escepades of a bunch of interrelated godly beings who are all somehow related, marry eachother, have sex and kids, stab eachother in the back, act like babies or adults, and what not. Religion > TV.

I am a Christian. I am not a catholic or any other denomination but a Christian. I follow Christ. I don’t believe in pushing my faith on others but I will share what I believe with people. It’s up to them to decide what to do with what I share with them.

*Applauds* well done! I am also a Christian and I cringe when I see people shoving it down other people's throats! People do need the right to choose, and Jesus never forced himself on anyone-he asked the crippled man at the Pool of Bethseda if he wanted to be healed. He didn't just go in there and heal him! Jesus recognises the fact that it has to be by choice that we come to him. People asked Jesus for things and he gave them what they needed (and still does!) I am not a Catholic, and in fact I seem to have acquired two denominations- Baptist and Pentecostal, either way both pretty lively and without too much pomp and ceremony, and both accepting of anyone who wishes sincerely to become a Christian or is just looking for a something they can't quite define. Jesus taught us to lead by example not to preach and pray at people like the Pharasees, so next time you see a street preacher who is annoying you by praying loudly in a flowery way in public mutter "Pharasee" at him or something of the like and watch his face.;)

Jesus taught us to lead by example not to preach and pray at people like the Pharasees, so next time you see a street preacher who is annoying you by praying loudly in a flowery way in public mutter "Pharasee" at him or something of the like and watch his face.;)

that is an excellent suggestion .

Animist polytheist. I believe the entire universe and pretty much everything in it has a soul and a spirit and a self. If I am in doubt about whether any given thing has those features, I choose to assume it does, just to err on the side of safety. Thus I try to treat everything (not just everyone) the way I would like to be treated, if I were it/them/whatever. I believe souls exist and are eternal and independent and that death is merely another change we go through, like any other.

I believe the point of life is to have a good time.

I believe what goes around, comes around..

That's probably the closest to my beliefs without me actually explaining them.

I'm atheist for the same reasons I don't believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. I've seen lots of imposters, things twisted or reshaped to FIT the idea that they were the workings of a god, but no real proof. Just smoke and mirrors.

I think we all have seen that. What we choose to do once we see it is what makes us who we are.

I was raised in the South - my mother and father were both not very religious at all, so I was generally free to explore. I had many friends who wanted me to attend church with them, so I dabbled in Christianity kind of a bit. But while everyone just seemed either so EXCITED or so MOVED . . . I felt nothing. I'd look at the rejoicers like they were crazy or drunk. I'd look at the weepers like they were lunatics. I felt this whole irritating sense of . . . flippancy. For every example of Christ's "love", I could read several passages of God's wrath. It read like a recovering alcoholic, one that used to get drunk and beat his wife, who now wants to be all about peace and love and reconciliation. It left a foul taste in my mouth.

I completely understand this feeling. I have sat in on a number of services, Lutheran, Foursquare, Episcopalian, and I teach now at a Catholic (Benedictine) university. The Catholics seemed to have the greatest reverence and respect, at least for tradition and dogma, so I respect their services the most and feel as close as I'll ever get to having that kind of Pentecostal experience of being filled with God's love when I'm in a Catholic service. I think it's something about the rituals being so old and so solemn.

I have seen rejoicers, weepers, speakers in tongues, and the whole Charismatic ball of wax, and I have to agree with you. Religion based on fear and peer pressure is inherently subject to manipulation and hypocrisy, and just seems fake to me. I realize that there are those who truly derive such intensity and emotion from worship, and I say "great" -- for them. It isn't for me. I don't really "worship" per se, but I do respect the music created by composers like Bach and other Renaissance-to-now composers who felt compelled by God to write. Modern Christian (pop) music is really generally treacly and hard to listen to, with the occasional exception (Jars of Clay, Take 6, negro spirituals and genuine gospel music).

I find my idea of faith is best expressed in the film Dogma, especially when The Muse talks about how most people carry their faith like a weight instead of letting it lighten their load (as in the negro spiritual/gospel tradition).

And the Christians themselves - mostly such hypocrites. PK's (preacher's kids) were notorious for being some of the most sexually licentious kids in school, or who would lie to their parents and generally disobey them. They'd go on about Jesus' love for everyone, yet pick on the fat kid. They'd outright USE their religion as a dressed up face for their own prejudices and hatred. If religion was EVER a good thing in theory, mankind absolutely destroyed it in practise.

There's no zealot like a new zealot, and no backslider like someone who's supposed to be ironclad. I have seen this concept in action, too. For more on this topic, another film, Saved, is a decent look.

Of course, I always get the "Don't let the 'bad Christians' dissuade you from knowing God". And I'm always insulted, because if I felt there was ANY truth behind those scriptures, then no amount of loudmouthed, hypocritical Bible thumpers would be able to dissuade me from seeking truth. But I don't see any truth in Christianity, or any other of the world's religions as we know them. I see a patriarchal system of government, an omnipotent Boogeyman installed so that people would have an easier time keeping order. Divine providence is one of the oldest tools in the book for establishing yourself as a king.

Yup. And they always invent these homiletic loopholes like "the greatest trick that Satan ever devised was convincing people he doesn't exist". There's always a circular rebuttal for any basic objection, and they're really quite convenient.

I see no proof whatsoever of a god beyond what someone else "said". I can't even infer the existence of a god from the world we live in - omnipotence, omniscience, and omni benevolence can't possibly coexist in any deity that oversees this particular planet. It's a philosophical contradiction.

As I mentioned earlier, I take as proof enough for divinity the way I'm affected by the right music, art, scenery, and so forth. I've yet to explain that without spirituality.

that is an excellent suggestion .

Agreed, I'll have to make use of it.

Although I find waving around my copy of the Qu'ran much more effective when I just want to piss them off, which is what I usually do.

I love my copy of the Qu'ran, it's the source of so much fun. And I'm not even Mudlim.

I was raised in an open home. My father was a non-practicing catholic and my mother was a non-practicing baptist. I was baptized catholic. When I started to question religion around age 5-7. My parents talked openly and honestly with all of us (3 brothers and a sister). We discussed daily topics during and after dinner. I went to church a few times and had in depth discussions with the priest, and reverend. (tho they were a bit annoyed at having to answer questions from a 7yr.old, but they were patient with me) I came to believe that there was SOMETHING out there, some type of benevolent force, but that it was powerless to interact with the universe, other than creating the spark that started it. I spent 20+ years in the Marine Corps, seeing atrocities and other things that I hope none of you EVER have to witness, and I still believe that there is an entity out there.

Long story, short: There is something out there.

Woah, fist Commies now Religion!:eek:

To answer the original question, what do I believe?
I don't know de facto right now. I'm only 27. But to believe doesn't only encompass religion, God. It can also translates as belief in someone or in something or some course of action. But this question makes me think of another term, aside from faith. What is to believe?

Believe- to believe, to hold something, usually pertaining to God, to be true.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief

Belief- that state of the mind by which it assents to propositions, not by reason of their intrinsic evidence, but because of authority.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02408b.htm

According to the Merriam-Webster dictionary (http://mw4.m-w.com/dictionary/belief), belief is: Etymology: Middle English beleave, probably alteration of Old English gelēafa, from ge-, associative prefix + lēafa; akin to Old English lȳfan — more at believe
Date: 12th century
1: a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
2: something believed; especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group
3: conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence
synonyms belief, faith, credence, credit mean assent to the truth of something offered for acceptance. Belief may or may not imply certitude in the believer <my belief that I had caught all the errors>. faith almost always implies certitude even where there is no evidence or proof <an unshakable faith in God>. credence suggests intellectual assent without implying anything about grounds for assent <a theory now given credence by scientists>. credit may imply assent on grounds other than direct proof <gave full credit to the statement of a reputable witness>.

Why do people, like us at NSG, believe? What prompts a human being to believe? A writer I read a few years ago for an Iconography class I was taking explains it better than I can:
"Believers have not been exposed to the factual critiques of their faith. These critiques apply to the cognitive basis of their belief. There are alternative naturalistic explanations of the alleged phenomena, cognitivists maintain, and if criticisms of the claims were made available to them, they would abandon their irrational beliefs. This is no doubt true of some people, who are committed to inquiry, but not of all, for processes of rationalization intervene to rescue the faith.

Accordingly, a second explanation for this is that noncognitive tendencies and impulses are at work, tempting believers to accept the “unbelievable.” This disposition to believe in spite of insufficient or contrary evidence has deep roots in our biological and social nature." - Paul Kurtz Why do people Believe or Desbelieve?

In the first example, cognition performs a powerful role in human life, freeing us from untruthful ideas. In the form of common sense, it is essential, at least up to a point, if we are to live and function in the real world. Critical thinking is the primordial instrument of human action; it is the most effective means that we have to fulfill our purposes and solve the problems of living. From it philosophy and science have emerged, contributing to our understanding of nature and ourselves.

Why do many people accept unverified occult explanations when they are clothed in religious or paranormal guise? The answer, perhaps, in part at least, is because such accounts arouse awe and entice the passionate imagination.

when things are going badly i curse god for his impotence in making my life easier!! when things are going great i forget all about him... oh and if you are wondering which god, my god is the blind idiot god at the center of the universal court


right now im an athiest=stuff in my life is going well


cthulhu cthan!

I'm an atheist, and my immediate family is atheist or agnostic. On the other hand, I call myself and my family Jewish and have no problem with the cultural side of that. I go to temple once or twice a year for important holidays, had a bar mitzvah and celebrate things like Hanukkah and Passover. I'm proud and interested in my heritage, and feel I can culturally be a Jew without necessarily believing in god or following scripture.

I am an Atlantic Baptist, although I currently attend a Wesleyan Church, since it is quite similar to the one in which I am a member at my hometown.

Some major theological points:

God is omniescent and omnipresent, He is love
Jesus, the Human form of God, died but rose again, so now we need not fear death
The Holy Spirit is a presence living within us that prompts us how to properly follow God, it is like a good conscience, with a bit more vim
Humans are made in God's image in that we have free will- There are things that God would like us to do, but we must choose to do them (Hence no infant baptisms)
Because of the respect for free will, it is inappropriate to force one's religion onto others, although a non-confrontational, no-pressure sharing is encouraged

The best way to describe myself when it comes to religion would be agnostic. I have spiritual beliefs and ideas, but as far as what comes next, or who created what, I don't know. I believe in the soul or some sort of spiritual essence, and I do believe in a basic moral code. By basic I mean that I think we all have the right to do whatever we like as long as we're not hurting someone else. I won't denounce things like God, heaven, or hell, but I won't accept them to be real either.

I'm a strong believer in free will and individualism. If some supernatural creator were proven to exist I would be grateful for giving us our existence, but I would not suddenly devote my life to him. If he/she/it were indeed perfect, I doubt it would want me to for that matter.

I know me, I know people, I know happiness, and I know love. Thats what I'm gonna focus on. Everything else is just a theory.

I was raised in an open home. My father was a non-practicing catholic and my mother was a non-practicing baptist. I was baptized catholic. When I started to question religion around age 5-7. My parents talked openly and honestly with all of us (3 brothers and a sister). We discussed daily topics during and after dinner. I went to church a few times and had in depth discussions with the priest, and reverend. (tho they were a bit annoyed at having to answer questions from a 7yr.old, but they were patient with me) I came to believe that there was SOMETHING out there, some type of benevolent force, but that it was powerless to interact with the universe, other than creating the spark that started it. I spent 20+ years in the Marine Corps, seeing atrocities and other things that I hope none of you EVER have to witness, and I still believe that there is an entity out there.

Long story, short: There is something out there.

Sorry to toss debate into this so far mostly non-contentious thread, but why do you believe in some force if it's unable to interact with the universe?

Sorry to toss debate into this so far mostly non-contentious thread, but why do you believe in some force if it's unable to interact with the universe?

Isn't that deism?

I have no beliefs about god. Only ideas. The word 'belief' implies the acceptance of some idea as reality without evidence or logic.

I have the idea that god is immanent, that all of reality is one thing and god is that thing and everything everywhere is also that thing.

I do not believe god created the universe. I have the idea that god is the universe and is constantly creating herself.

I have the idea that god is not omniscient, not omnipotent, nor omnibenevolent. Not if things like free will and logic exist.

I could be wrong.

Wait, I do have one belief about god that I think is true even though I have no evidence for it: I believe god is so far beyond our pettiness that she doesn't care what we believe, as long as we love each other. But I've always been a little silly.

I believe that if you want to wear a thong, you should have to go through an application process.

Isn't that deism?

I don't think it's necessary for deism as such. (feel free to enlighten me)

I believe this life is the only one; we make our own heaven or hell out of it. I think people believe in an afterlife, because the alternative is too depressing to accept. Treat every day with respect.

JIC no one's linked them yet: from Bull Durham (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094812/quotes), Annie's quote at the top, and much further down, Crash's quote about his beliefs.
Me? I believe, I can see you house from up here ;)

I don't think it's necessary for deism as such. (feel free to enlighten me)

Well, deism isn't all that structured, so it is what you define it, I suppose. My understanding is that it generally means there is a Creator removed from the day-to-day minutiae of everyday life.

I believe in the Zen Buddhist who asked the hotdog vendor, "Can you make me one with everything?"

:)

Well, deism isn't all that structured, so it is what you define it, I suppose. My understanding is that it generally means there is a Creator removed from the day-to-day minutiae of everyday life.

Yeah, but not always, and it doesn't mean the creator never interacts with the universe or is actually unable to do so. Honestly, a 'supreme' being unable to have any effect on anything in the world even if it wishes to is pretty unimpressive.

I'm a Christian. When I say that, it should be noted that I was not raised Christian, it isn't something that anyone else in my family holds to. I have made my own decision, after years of atheism, to follow evidence that I was shown, and commited my life to serving Jesus Christ. I have been baptized since, as a personal profession of my new faith. I believe the Bible to be the complete and inspired Word of God, and I believe that according to the Bible, we are called to share our faith with others. However, we cannot attempt to convert people, as that is the duty of the Holy Spirit. I can only discuss my faith, not force it on others.

In Christ,
Sven <><

I wanted to create a thread where people can come and debate their religious beliefs. It seems that on most threads around people are pretty opinionated about their beliefs and seem to get what others believe wrong. This thread is a chance for you to post your beliefs and compare them with others around you. So let’s hear about what you believe or don’t believe and compare faiths.

First let me say I think this is a nice idea to do this. :)


My parents raised me in a non-denominational setting as their religious backgrounds were very different. They also exposed me (and my brother) to all faiths (monotheistic) encouraging us to learn the differences and form our own opinions and decisions.

I consider myself a Christian. I do not follow a particular sect of Christianity though my beliefs follow most closely to the Anabaptists regarding ceremony. I was baptized as an adult, it was a conscious choice I made. I believe that each person has within them the ability to make the choice to repent from sin and accept Christ as their saviour. I believe God gave us all free will for that very reason and each of us is the guardian of our soul first. I believe that salvation is a choice made by a person who understands the difference between sin and forgiveness/repent.

For theological purposes regarding God as an entity, I am a Gnostic gospel student, heavily favoring the Gospel of Thomas. I follow the ideology that God is more in the form of energy and therefore within us all.

I am the light that shines over all things. I am everywhere. From me all came forth, and to me all return.
Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift a stone, and you will find me there. The Gospel of Thomas

I do not believe in a burning hell, but in simply the loss of the vision of God by the non-believer. (A non-believer will simply never know God.) I believe that life does not end at the death of the physical body, the journey just continues on another plane.

My beliefs are mine, I ask no one to believe them. I believe that each person has to find their pathway whether it be with God or not.

My reasons for believing what I do come from years of study and inner meditation/searching and my personal sufferings. Other faiths and philosophies (such as atheism) do not threaten me or my beliefs and I enjoy reading other views...provided they are respectful of everyone. A person never stops learning.

I do not believe that any one faith is more powerful or closer to God than another. I do not believe that one faith is wrong and one is right, I believe it is right or wrong for the individual. (Providing no physical harm to others is a result of that belief.) For instance, it would be wrong for me to think I have to handle snakes to prove my faith, but it may be very right for someone else to believe that.

I think the reason that there are so many faiths is so that humanity can find as many variations as there are in humans. Everyone can find the peace they need to find whether it be belief in nirvana, the happy hunting ground or in an English garden type heaven. ;)

Oh and lastly, I absolutely believe in science. Evolution does not threaten my beliefs in the least. I have no doubt that some of God's greatest creations walked the Earth long before man. I do wish people didn't generalize that to be a Christian you can't believe in evolution. :rolleyes: That is simply poppycock.

Hmmm, ok so I tried to put what I believe, not what others should believe. I hope I was clear on that. :)

I worship a giant blind albino cave salamander.

I make him offerings of rice crispy treat squares.

I worship a giant blind albino cave salamander.

I make him offerings of rice crispy treat squares.

I thought that was your tongue :eek:

I wanted to create a thread where people can come and debate their religious beliefs. It seems that on most threads around people are pretty opinionated about their beliefs and seem to get what others believe wrong. This thread is a chance for you to post your beliefs and compare them with others around you. So let’s hear about what you believe or don’t believe and compare faiths.

I don't have a solid belief, i doubt i ever will. I don't think we have free will, it's merely an illusion.
As for a God, well i think there could be an evil God, that makes sense to me.
Other than that, i have doubts about Christianity and Buddhism.
I don't like the idea of being agnostic or athiest either, so i'll keep my ideas fluid for a bit.
Oh and i don't believe in an afterlife, it's better that way.

Credo in Deum Patrem omnipotentem,
creatorem caeli et terrae;
Et in Iesum Christum,
Filium eius unicum,
Dominum nostrum,
qui conceptus est de Spiritu Sancto,
natus ex Maria Virgine,
passus sub Pontio Pilato,
crucifixus, mortuus et sepultus,
descendit ad infernos,
tertia die resurrexit a mortuis,
ascendit ad caelos,
sedet ad dexteram Dei Patris omnipotentis,
inde venturus est iudicare vivos et mortuos;
Credo in Spiritum Sanctum,
sanctam Ecclesiam catholicam,
Sanctorum communionem,
remissionem peccatorum,
carnis resurrectionem,
et vitam aeternam. Amen.

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.
He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit
and born of the Virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended to the dead.
On the third day He rose again.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Holy Catholic Church,
the communion of Saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

;)

I'm an agnostic atheist.

I believe that any sport worth playing is worth playing in mud. I question the athletic and entertainment value of any sport that cannot be played in mud.

Does hockey count if it's outdoors and the ice is dirty?

There's no zealot like a new zealot

Or as my mother is fond of saying, "No one holier than a reformed whore."

JIC no one's linked them yet: from Bull Durham (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094812/quotes), Annie's quote at the top, and much further down, Crash's quote about his beliefs.
Me? I believe, I can see you house from up here ;)

Made of win!

I believe in rock and roll, electric guitar, confessional poetry, the designated hitter, soft drugs, the power of warm chocolate chip cookies, returning to nature (even if it's only your own backyard), dark matter/energy, that Dickens was a hack, that referees hate on the Bay Area, that no one is irredeemable.

I'm a Mormon.

Which is to say that I believe that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. I believe that good and truth and right is ovjective, not subjective. I believe that mankind had a destiny far greater than can be accomplished int his life. I believe that all religions contain an element of truth in them and ought to be respected.

I was raised Catholic and held onto it for about the first 20 years of my life. I then drifted into experimentation with a few other worldviews including witchraft. I eventually chose to be Baptized as a Mormon as the result of a prayer and a vision I received. Since that time I've been refining and improving my understanding of the world and the universe.

I'm a Mormon.

I thought Mormons didn't like using technology, am i wrong?
Are they an offshoot of Christianity? why did they move away if they did so.

I thought Mormons didn't like using technology, am i wrong?
what do they believe?

You're thinking of Amish and some Mennonite sects.

The defining characteristic of Mormon theology as opposed to other Christian denominations is that we do not hold the Bible to be the exclusive canon of Scripture. (The Book of Mormon is one example.) We also make much heavier use of the Old Testament than most Christian groups.

(And yes, we celebrate all holidays ;) )

You're thinking of Amish and some Mennonite sects.

The defining characteristic of Mormon theology as opposed to other Christian denominations is that we do not hold the Bible to be the exclusive canon of Scripture. (The Book of Mormon is one example.) We also make much heavier use of the Old Testament than most Christian groups.

(And yes, we celebrate all holidays ;) )Show me the golden plates.

I believe in an omnipotent, benevolent, noncorporeal, and eternal God.

I believe that this God created Existence, and that he gave Humanity(And possibly other things) a free will to command their lives.

I believe that each of us has a noncorporeal soul or spirit.

I believe that there is no "Heaven" or "Hell", and do not claim to know what happens to our souls at death, though I speculate that "heaven" may be spiritual communion with God, and "hell" an inpermanent disconnection from God.

I believe that, if this speculation is true, then God judges each person for who they are, and that no universal standard, like good works or faith, is the rubric for all people. I believe that the virtuous Atheist may enter "heaven", but that a devout yet immoral Christian may not.

I believe that God sent or enlightened certain persons as his emissaries to humanity, and that I chose to follow the spiritual path taught by Jesus.

I believe that God did not create a perfect world, and that he allows suffering because of the immortality of the soul, the free will that he granted upon humanity, and because physical existance is imperfect by nature.

I am a Non-Denominational, ex-Catholic, Christian.

Show me the golden plates.

They were brass, right?

They were brass, right?No. Air.

I believe in an omnipotent, benevolent, noncorporeal, and eternal God.

I believe that this God created Existence, and that he gave Humanity(And possibly other things) a free will to command their lives.

I believe that each of us has a noncorporeal soul or spirit.

I believe that there is no "Heaven" or "Hell", and do not claim to know what happens to our souls at death, though I speculate that "heaven" may be spiritual communion with God, and "hell" an inpermanent disconnection from God.

I believe that, if this speculation is true, then God judges each person for who they are, and that no universal standard, like good works or faith, is the rubric for all people. I believe that the virtuous Atheist may enter "heaven", but that a devout yet immoral Christian may not.

I believe that God sent or enlightened certain persons as his emissaries to humanity, and that I chose to follow the spiritual path taught by Jesus.

I believe that God did not create a perfect world, and that he allows suffering because of the immortality of the soul, the free will that he granted upon humanity, and because physical existance is imperfect by nature.

I am a Non-Denominational, ex-Catholic, Christian.

What are your beliefs based upon? Why do you believe thus?

I believe that any sport worth playing is worth playing in mud. I question the athletic and entertainment value of any sport that cannot be played in mud.
Mud would really screw up curling.

It seems that on most threads around people are pretty opinionated about their beliefs and seem to get what others believe wrong.
What's wrong is belief. Belief is a baseless opinion held fervently. Belief doesn't make any sense at all, and I aspire to hold now beliefs whatever.

Mud would really screw up curling.

They could call it Murling, where the opposition team get to throw sods of mud at their opposition to put off the stone, the payoff is it will disrupt the line of movement for their stones so they have to have a strategy of mud-slinging.
Murling.

I know what I believe. I will continue to articulate what I believe and what I believe - I believe what I believe is right.

A quote for every occasion.

What's wrong is belief. Belief is a baseless opinion held fervently. Belief doesn't make any sense at all, and I aspire to hold now beliefs whatever.

The idea that beliefs don't make sense at all is itself a belief. It would be better to simply make the observation that beliefs and reality share a complex relationship, and then try to see that relationship as clearly as possible.

The idea that beliefs don't make sense at all is itself a belief. It would be better to simply make the observation that beliefs and reality share a complex relationship, and then try to see that relationship as clearly as possible.
The idea that beliefs don't make sense is demonstrably true. Would you like me to draw out the formal logic?

The relationship isn't that complex. Reality necessarily exists (regardless of whether we're aware of it), and beliefs need not. All beliefs do is introduce bias into perception and make people less good as reasoning.

They were brass, right?

Actually some were, some were gold, some were tin I believe. There was a mix.

The idea that beliefs don't make sense is demonstrably true. Would you like me to draw out the formal logic?

I would like to see you draw this statement that you made: 'Belief doesn't make any sense at all'.

Also, how would you explain someone holding an opinion fervently that just happened to be true? That would be a belief that made sense, even if it does so solely through luck or coincidence.

To me it seems that the 'sense' of a belief is completely arbitrary. People may believe sensible things, or they may believe stupid things.

The relationship isn't that complex. Reality necessarily exists (regardless of whether we're aware of it), and beliefs need not. All beliefs do is introduce bias into perception and make people less good as reasoning.

Do you think your beliefs influence or bias your perception of the universe?

In response to the OP
Religious (my own religion) humanist
Basically everyone worships the same god, and all individual variances tend to get lost. Since god is so complex, no matter what god you are worshiping, you are worshiping the same god. Yet god is not omniscient, omnipresent, or omnipotent. He may be two of those three, or only one. I'm not quite sure which. I'm leaning towards omniscient, omnipresent, and while powerful, creating everything took a lot of him, and so hes not as powerful as we attribute him to be. Everything up to here has been random conjecture. Now is where we get parts that actually might be supported by something (yes, I've managed the impossible :)), being supported by recollections of NDE's. (Near Death Experiences.) Now, what these seem to show is that "Hell" is more like "purgatory", in that you can escape from it. I tend to speculate that "hell" is for the bad people, and they have to experience what they did to everyone esle. THey also seem to show that, for example, Christians see Jesus come get them, while Muslims see Mohammed, and Hindus see Vishnu.

In response to the OP
Religious (my own religion) humanist
Basically everyone worships the same god, and all individual variances tend to get lost. Since god is so complex, no matter what god you are worshiping, you are worshiping the same god. Yet god is not omniscient, omnipresent, or omnipotent. He may be two of those three, or only one. I'm not quite sure which. I'm leaning towards omniscient, omnipresent, and while powerful, creating everything took a lot of him, and so hes not as powerful as we attribute him to be. Everything up to here has been random conjecture. Now is where we get parts that actually might be supported by something (yes, I've managed the impossible :)), being supported by recollections of NDE's. (Near Death Experiences.) Now, what these seem to show is that "Hell" is more like "purgatory", in that you can escape from it. I tend to speculate that "hell" is for the bad people, and they have to experience what they did to everyone esle. THey also seem to show that, for example, Christians see Jesus come get them, while Muslims see Mohammed, and Hindus see Vishnu. And that your goal in life is to make the world better for everyone else. This should be a reward in itself.

I am a deist who believe that the soul is a part of God. Other than that, I do not posses religious beliefs.

I am a deist who believe that the soul is a part of God. Other than that, I do not posses religious beliefs.

*waves towards crowd*
Aallllright people, on your left you'll see a heathen. Commonly found within the lower strata of the sociosphere, these shuffling creatures prefer to use common sense to survive, instead of following larger groups and more organized communities.

Aaand towards the right you will see a large pile of firewood and some drums of oil. If you come back in half an hour you can catch the show. Trust me, it's the highlight of the day.

What are your beliefs based upon? Why do you believe thus?

Some are based on the Quirrini[sp] Viae of Thomas Aquinas, others I believe in because they make philisophical sense to me, and yet others I believe in through interpretation of Scripture(which I believe to be divinely isnpired but not inerrant).

None of this comes from childhood indoctorination. I was taught the traditional heaven, hell and purgatory, and the Catholic belief that good works are the key to salvation. I now do not believe such. However, I was also brought up with the Big Bang, Evolution, and was exposed to non-spiritual and non-existential views as well.

Athiest-cum-Agnostic-cum practicing Catholic

Conservative German-style Lutheran.

Seriously.

I believe I do not know what to believe so I am willing to consider all aspects of every possible belief there is with the understanding that I may or may not believe anything or nothing in the end.

Is there a category for Catholic/Wiccan/Bhuddist/Agnostic? :confused:

Athiest-cum-Agnostic-cum practicing CatholicLots of cum there...

i believe we togather create the conditions seperately we experience.

it's a big universe out there and there are things we can feel and experience without having to know anything about them. one or more could be close enough to some kind of a god for government work.

i think we all have many kinds of 'invisible friends'. not just god or gods.
and i think there hugs and snuggles and purrs are wonderful.

but what we don't know, other then to feel, we don't know, as in what it has for breakfast or where it sleeps. what we do know, however great and wonderful its/their huggs, it is still up to us, to stop screwing everything up for each other.

whatever motivates us to stop doing so is fine. as long as we do.
because the price of not doing so, is one we all pay, in this life at least, and don't be too surprised to be held to account some how in some other.

so i believe in the kind of world we could all be living in if we weren't so adamantly emotionally adicted to screwing ourselves out of it by putting symbols and assumptions, and trying to impress each other with them, ahead of any sort of real gratification, let alone the kind of world we all have to live in.

=^^=
.../\...

I believe I left my pants on your roof last night.


Also, I'm sure many many people in this thread are misusing the word agnostic. It's not some kind of alternative to atheist or theist. It's a completely different thing.

I don't believe, I believe.

...

Oh wait...

I believe that if it doesn't quit snowing soon, I will go insane.:mad:

I am an atheist-leaning agnostic. While I don't think that there is any way that we can prove that God doesn't exist, I consider that it is extremely unlikely that anything that hasn't been proved reliably exists. On the other hand, many things have been discovered with new technology that were previously not even thought of.

I am an atheist-leaning agnostic. While I don't think that there is any way that we can prove that God doesn't exist, I consider that it is extremely unlikely that anything that hasn't been proved reliably exists. On the other hand, many things have been discovered with new technology that were previously not even thought of.

You're an atheist and an agnostic by the sound of it. Consider a line between atheist and theist. Agnostic is not in the middle. It's on a totally different line.

Agnostic-Antitheist.

I dont know if theres a god, but lets kill all the preachers and ban organised religion, if something bad happens, god exists, if nothing happens, we cured ourselves of a nasty ailment, have a couple of million bodies to power the world for about 5 minutes in one big light show, and have around 10% of the worlds money free'd up to spend on whatever we like :p

I believe you're sitting in my chair.

I believe you're sitting in my chair.


Nuh-uh, I can't see your name written on it.

Nuh-uh, I can't see your name written on it.

Because you're sitting on it. Stand up and I'll show you.


*steals chair from under Peeps*

I believe that if it doesn't quit snowing soon, I will go insane.:mad:

Go? ;)

What you're not liking it being about 50 yesterday and snowing today?

Sorry to toss debate into this so far mostly non-contentious thread, but why do you believe in some force if it's unable to interact with the universe?

I "believe" that the human race has been endowed with the unalterable drive that makes us believe in SOMETHING, whether we can explain it or not. I can't explain it. that is why I "believe".

I believe that if it doesn't quit snowing soon, I will go insane.:mad:

I have already gone insane, even before last night's blizzard. :headbang:

I believe in a lot of wishy-washy new age nonsense. Also cosmic conciousness.

I am an atheist-leaning agnostic ... I don't think that there is any way that we can prove that God doesn't exist...

You're an atheist and an agnostic by the sound of it. Consider a line between atheist and theist. Agnostic is not in the middle. It's on a totally different line.

Not entirely right Ifreann.

Here's a scale I pinched from Richard Dawkin's God Delusion

100% belief in God - believes absolutely that God exists and lives life accordingly

75% belief in God - tends to believe in God and lives accordingly

50% belief / unbelief - doesn't know what to believe

25% belief in God (or 75% unbelief if you like) - tends not to believe in God

0% belief (or 100% unbelief) believes absolutely that God exists and lives life accordingly

I suspect Mvassland is hovering somewhere around the 95% to 99% unbelief mark. All of the evidence points strongly to no god. Few if any of the hypothesis for god make any sense. But it cannot be proved that God does not exist.

So............

Everything from 99% belief in God to 1% belief in God is really a from of agnosticism.... just of varying strength.

For me, rationalism and evidence propel me to 99% unbelief, minimum. Based on the evidence, I chose to believe something that I cannot prove (God doesn't exist) and that makes me an athiest rather than an agnostic.

i believe when we die were all gonna be really dissapointed by the total lack of crap happening that we thought would happen.:gundge:

I would like to see you draw this statement that you made: 'Belief doesn't make any sense at all'.
Beliefs are necessarily foundationless. They can't make sense because they're not based on anything.
Also, how would you explain someone holding an opinion fervently that just happened to be true? That would be a belief that made sense, even if it does so solely through luck or coincidence.
No, that would be a belief that turned out to be true. That is was held still didn't make any sense.

If it did make sense in that there was genuine cause to hold it, then it wouldn't be a belief: it would be knowledge.
[quoet]To me it seems that the 'sense' of a belief is completely arbitrary. People may believe sensible things, or they may believe stupid things.[/quote]
What they believe doesn't matter. That they believe is what matters.
Do you think your beliefs influence or bias your perception of the universe?
There's certainly a risk of that, yes.

The last thing we need on here is another Religion thread.

I think the idea is not to debate or even discuss our beliefs, but simply present them. Not too bad an idea.

Not entirely right Ifreann.
Actually I'm pretty sure it is.

Here's a scale I pinched from Richard Dawkin's God Delusion

100% belief in God - believes absolutely that God exists and lives life accordingly

75% belief in God - tends to believe in God and lives accordingly

50% belief / unbelief - doesn't know what to believe

25% belief in God (or 75% unbelief if you like) - tends not to believe in God

0% belief (or 100% unbelief) believes absolutely that God exists and lives life accordingly

I suspect Mvassland is hovering somewhere around the 95% to 99% unbelief mark. All of the evidence points strongly to no god. Few if any of the hypothesis for god make any sense. But it cannot be proved that God does not exist.

So............

Everything from 99% belief in God to 1% belief in God is really a from of agnosticism.... just of varying strength.
False. Agnosticism is the belief that one cannot prove that there is or is not a god or gods. The opposite would be gnosticism, the belief that one can prove that there is or is not a god or gods. While this is obviously related to be a theist or atheist, it is not influenced by it. One can be an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist.

For me, rationalism and evidence propel me to 99% unbelief, minimum. Based on the evidence, I chose to believe something that I cannot prove (God doesn't exist) and that makes me an athiest rather than an agnostic.

You are both.

What do I believe? I believe Hillary Clinton would be a horrible President. Thats what I believe.

What do I believe? I believe Hillary Clinton would be a horrible President. Thats what I believe.

I believe you're right.

Actually I'm pretty sure it is.


False. Agnosticism is the belief .....



For what it's worth, you (read: I) learn something new everyday!

Cheers

BC

Here's a scale I pinched from Richard Dawkin's God Delusion

100% belief in God - believes absolutely that God exists and lives life accordingly

75% belief in God - tends to believe in God and lives accordingly

50% belief / unbelief - doesn't know what to believe

25% belief in God (or 75% unbelief if you like) - tends not to believe in God

0% belief (or 100% unbelief) believes absolutely that God exists and lives life accordingly
I don't like that at all. Belief is binary - either you believe something or you don't.

Egyptian Reconstructionism. I Follow the beliefs of traditional Ancient Egyptian religion and to attempt to reconstruct it as far as possible from a historical perspective. Personally, for me it requires mental gymnastics as I'm also a student of Egyptian History, so I have to switch from critical analysis of the religion for academic reasons (i.e. The use of religious belief, and religious office, for political ends) to following those same beliefs, not unquestioningly, but respectfully.

I believe in the fundamental truth and, for want of a better term, rightness, of my religion but do not take a “Bible Literalist” view of it. For example, in Egyptian religion there are many depictions of the gods, but I do not believe that they permanently and literally inhabit this form (no Egyptian school of thought holds this view, the same god can be portrayed in a number of forms, that emphasise particular aspects of His or Her nature). Similarly I regard the stories of creation as metaphors for the roles of the gods in our creation (according to different interpretations or viewpoints) not their literal action, in the same way that open minded Christians can regard the opening chapters of genesis as metaphorical for the early periods of the existence of the planet.

There is a strong ethical dimensions to Egyptian religion, and it isn't wildly different to those of the Abrahamic religions (as far as I know, I only really know about Islam, so forgive me if I'm assuming too much on the similarity of the “big three”) and to me it's one of the most important aspects. If you are not prepared to at least try to follow the ethical principles of the gods you claim to adore, revere and obey, then you are just a hypocrite and your gestures are posturing. It's like backstabbing your friends at work, only worse. The ethics come first, even if you yourself have to take one in the teeth for them (I've bitten my tongue so many times, I'm amazed it's still there). I don't think it is possible to follow the gods of any religion and not try to follow the ethics they give you.

As for other religions, I don't really care too much about what other people believe, and more interested in my religion than theirs. That's between them and their gods, god or whatever.

So, that is what I believe. Any (sensible) questions, just ask. I'll answer to the best of my ability, but just remeber I'm not a theologian and neither can I fix your voicemail system (everything I know seems to think I'm good at that sort of thing, I'm not)

Abju
Egyptian Reconstructionism. I Follow the beliefs of traditional Ancient Egyptian religion and to attempt to reconstruct it as far as possible from a historical perspective. Personally, for me it requires mental gymnastics as I'm also a student of Egyptian History, so I have to switch from critical analysis of the religion for academic reasons (i.e. The use of religious belief, and religious office, for political ends) to following those same beliefs, not unquestioningly, but respectfully.
When you say you follow Ancient Egyptian religion, do you mean you believe it, or are you trying to uncover more information about it? both?

I believe in the fundamental truth and, for want of a better term, rightness, of my religion but do not take a “Bible Literalist” view of it. For example, in Egyptian religion there are many depictions of the gods, but I do not believe that they permanently and literally inhabit this form (no Egyptian school of thought holds this view, the same god can be portrayed in a number of forms, that emphasise particular aspects of His or Her nature). Similarly I regard the stories of creation as metaphors for the roles of the gods in our creation (according to different interpretations or viewpoints) not their literal action, in the same way that open minded Christians can regard the opening chapters of genesis as metaphorical for the early periods of the existence of the planet.
And what are your fundamental truths?

There is a strong ethical dimensions to Egyptian religion, and it isn't wildly different to those of the Abrahamic religions (as far as I know, I only really know about Islam, so forgive me if I'm assuming too much on the similarity of the “big three”) and to me it's one of the most important aspects. If you are not prepared to at least try to follow the ethical principles of the gods you claim to adore, revere and obey, then you are just a hypocrite and your gestures are posturing. It's like backstabbing your friends at work, only worse. The ethics come first, even if you yourself have to take one in the teeth for them (I've bitten my tongue so many times, I'm amazed it's still there). I don't think it is possible to follow the gods of any religion and not try to follow the ethics they give you.
Do you believe that if a say for example, your religion told you that X was the right and good thing to do, is it good because it's commanded by that religion or is it good because it is already good?
If the belief is commanded by the religion, then how can it determine what is good and bad?
If the belief is good inherantly, then why does your religion command it? what i'm saying is, what is the purpose of the religion you follow?
As far as i'm aware is it not better to have a moral belief system that allows for some flexibility so that over time people can adapt to changes (such as recent advances in Genetic modification and Genetic manipulation), and it gives reasons why they are good.

As for other religions, I don't really care too much about what other people believe, and more interested in my religion than theirs. That's between them and their gods, god or whatever.
So if people can choose their own religion, doesn't that mean that foundational knowledge plays no part in their decisions, because if there was foundational knowledge would this not require them to believe as you do?

So, that is what I believe. Any (sensible) questions, just ask. I'll answer to the best of my ability, but just remeber I'm not a theologian and neither can I fix your voicemail system (everything I know seems to think I'm good at that sort of thing, I'm not)

I don't understand what you mean by voicemail system.:confused: Do you mean belief system? A voicemail system is a message on an answer machine you get if the person you call doesn't answer the phone, and has nothing to do with religion (As far as i know).
I hope you can answer my queries as well as you can, i don't mind if you don't want to but it would be helpful for my critical thinking abilities. Oh and welcome to Nation States General.;)

When you say you follow Ancient Egyptian religion, do you mean you believe it, or are you trying to uncover more information about it? both?
I believe in that religion and follow that religion. I also happen to study it academically as well.
And what are your fundamental truths?
Order, justice, stability, life and family. These are the important things... Without them we are just a bunch of animals running round in the dark.

Do you believe that if a say for example, your religion told you that X was the right and good thing to do, is it good because it's commanded by that religion or is it good because it is already good?
I personally believe it is already (inherently) good because, ultimately, the world is a creation of the gods, and good was determined by them and then later expressed in religion.
If the belief is commanded by the religion, then how can it determine what is good and bad?
Do you mean how does the religion determine it, or how do we as individuals determine it?
If the belief is good inherantly, then why does your religion command it?
Because people do not necessarily do what is inherently good. A religious command aims to push people towards doing something that it would be better if they were already be doing but choose not to. It's inherently good not to stand in middle of the walkway and block everyone, but people still do it unless you tell them to get out of the way.
what i'm saying is, what is the purpose of the religion you follow?
There are many purposes, and benefits. Individually, within the context of a larger society, and for the gods. The main purpose, if that is the best word, is that the gods desire it. We exist because of them, for them. We strive to obey them out of respect, reverence and gratitude, and also in the hope that by doing things that are pleasing to them it will count for us in the afterlife (though, in all honesty, for me personally, it's not a selfish motivation. I would still be at the shrine regardless).

Practically speaking, there are social purposes. This is moving more into the realms of history and less of religion however, so I'll mention it only in passing, but it should not be disregarded. A stable society needs ideals to follow, and that is why all governments give approval to some form of religion (including communism). Egyptian religion is certainly no different and was used for thousands of years to ensure the stability of a complete society.
As far as i'm aware is it not better to have a moral belief system that allows for some flexibility so that over time people can adapt to changes (such as recent advances in Genetic modification and Genetic manipulation), and it gives reasons why they are good.
It depends. I agree that new technological advances have to be taken into consideration. All religions do this (Islam in Saudi Arabia was used to justify the introduction of TV broadcasting - first broadcast was of a religious passage from the Qu'ran, proving that it as a medium could be used for good) and Egyptian belief is no different in that respect. What is not encouraged is the idea of abandoning ones traditional or core values to embrace the new. Rather, using the new to further those traditions.
So if people can choose their own religion, doesn't that mean that foundational knowledge plays no part in their decisions, because if there was foundational knowledge would this not require them to believe as you do?
I think my religion is true, that doesn't mean people have to follow it. I.e. the earth is round, doesn't mean that people are not allowed to join the flat earth society. It's fundamental logic and reasoning that insists the earth is round (otherwise how come I can fly from London to LA via the Atlantic or the Pacific?) but some people don't follow it.
To me, it's clear that we exist because of the gods. If people don't want to believe that, that's fine. If that want to believe the earth is flat, that's fine too. The current situation in the world is not one of unity, but then it never has been.
I don't understand what you mean by voicemail system.:confused:
No no, I meant voicemail in the literal sense. lol. I know this place well enough that to invite an open question will bring out the smartalecs ;)
I hope you can answer my queries as well as you can, i don't mind if you don't want to but it would be helpful for my critical thinking abilities. Oh and welcome to Nation States General.;)
Well, I've done s best I can. If anything is not clear, or anything to add, just shout :)

I wasn't going to post to this thread again, because I'm not really interested in promoting my beliefs. But Mad hatters in jeans' questions to Abju are really good questions for a discussion that aims to understand people's belief systems, so I thought I'd like to test them out on my own stated beliefs, too, just as an intellectual exercise. I would be curious to see other people's responses to these questions about their own beliefs as well. :)

I first posted this:
Animist polytheist. I believe the entire universe and pretty much everything in it has a soul and a spirit and a self. If I am in doubt about whether any given thing has those features, I choose to assume it does, just to err on the side of safety. Thus I try to treat everything (not just everyone) the way I would like to be treated, if I were it/them/whatever. I believe souls exist and are eternal and independent and that death is merely another change we go through, like any other.

I believe the point of life is to have a good time.

I believe what goes around, comes around.

I believe that gods exist, but few have anything to do with my life, and most are more trouble than they are worth. I don't need their help that much.
Now, in response to Mad hatters' questions, I further add:
When you say you follow [animist polytheism], do you mean you believe it, or are you trying to uncover more information about it? both?
Both.

Re belief:

I call myself an animist because that is the word that best fits my own inherent way of thinking about life. Nobody/nothing ever convinced/persuaded/converted me to animism. I have always thought this way, even though it took several years of comparative religion research to discover the term for it. "Animism" is merely the name for my beliefs, so yes I believe it.

I also call myself a polytheist, though you don't have to be a polytheist to be an animist. You can be a Christian/Muslim/Jew and also be an animist. You can even be an atheist and be an animist at the same time, without any congnitive disconnect, because belief in spirits does not presuppose belief in god(s). However, I call myself a polytheist because I naturally tend towards assuming the existence of more than one god. In fact, I am perfectly comfortable accepting, on general principles, the simultaneous and equal existences of every single god and pantheon that has ever been suggested by any culture. For a good description of how such a mindset works, I recommend Neil Gaiman's novel American Gods. I read it recently and was happily surprised to find these concepts expressed in something not translated from Japanese. He describes an animistic concept of spiritual existence rather perfectly (I don't know if he meant to).

Re study:

I spend a lot of time studying animism because there are so many misconceptions about it (starting with some people thinking it doesn't exist) that I feel I need to be up on it academically, for when I need to talk about it to others.

Also, as a person of European ancestry (Italian, French, German, Russian), I am interested in prising out the animist cultural survivals of my own mixed heritage. However, I'm not interested in recreating "old ways." Animism isn't about "old ways." Animism is about living here and now, and I must deal with the spirits of the place I am connected to -- Boston, New York, Vermont, etc. -- which have little to do with ancient Europe. But still, the present is the child of the past, and as an animist descended from Europeans (all hardcore ancestor worshippers, a subset of animism called manism), I feel I should keep "current" with history.


And what are your fundamental truths?
A fundamental truth of animism is that the universe is full of living beings. Absolutely chock-a-block with them. Various animists may argue about what constitutes a "spirit" versus a "soul" and which things in the world have one or the other, and how many parts they break down into, etc, etc, etc. -- but in general, the animistic universe is a crowded place full of dramas and agendas and beings trying to live their lives all on top of each other, even if they are completely unrelated to each other. Imagine if the entire universe is like downtown New York City during the evening rush hour -- even if you can't see all the traffic.

There is virtually nothing you can do that will not impact someone or something else. Just like living in a crowded city, if we just barrel forward on our own tracks without concern for who is around us, conflict will be inevitable. But if we stay mindful of our neighbors and try to work with them towards common goals, then everyone can win, everyone can get their way. Consideration breeds cooperation, which breeds harmony, which breeds happiness. Happiness is the goal.

Another fundamental truth of animism is that the world is what it is, good, bad, or indifferent. If some animists say the world is a harsh place full of evil spirits, this usually reflects how their lives go, for as Lawrence Sterne put it, "each man will report of the fair as his own market has gone in it." Most animists tend to believe that the world, as manifest existence, does not need improvement. Whether it is fun or not fun at any given time, that is not a fault or imperfection in the universe. In other words, the world is just fine as it is, with all its beauties and non-beauties, all in perfect balance, just like a person is a whole and complete entity, regardless of whether you like them or not.

Another common animist truth, related to this, is that happiness is the default condition of all beings. Unhappiness is the result of disharmony between beings or within a being. If you experience persistent unhappiness (of any kind), you should examine your life, locate the point(s) of discord and take steps to restore harmony (whatever those steps may be for the given situation). This will rebalance you to a state of happiness.

Unlike many other religious beliefs, animism does not believe that there is a "point" to life. We were not put here by a god to do anything for him/her. Most of the older animist religions (note, animism is a type of religion, not a single religion) have some kind of creation myth, but in practice, animism does not concern itself with such matters. How all this came about is not important. Whether it will ever end is not important. What will happen to us after we are dead is not as important as what happens to us here and now.

If animists owe any duty to the spirits/gods they live with, it is rather the same as the duties we owe to our human neighbors. We should avoid screwing up their lives as much as we can. We should avoid constantly asking them for things but giving nothing in return. We should thank them when they do things for us. If we like them or gain benefit from them, it's nice to express appreciation. A tree spirit will probably enjoy being praised for providing shade, beauty, food, etc, as much as a person will appreciate being praised for doing a good job or being a pleasant neighbor. If we do nothing but take and never give, we should not be surprised if spirits/gods/people/etc take a bad attitude towards us. By that same token, just as we must remember that the spirits/gods do not work for us, neither do we work for them. We don't have to obey gods just because they are gods. There has to be something in it for us, too. Let us all work together for mutual benefit, and it will be possible for me to have my beach house and the ocean to have its hurricanes, and still maintain harmony.

Do you believe that if a say for example, your religion told you that X was the right and good thing to do, is it good because it's commanded by that religion or is it good because it is already good?
If the belief is commanded by the religion, then how can it determine what is good and bad?
Personally, I think this is a question of individual attitudes/mindsets more than a question of religion/religious teaching. Some people follow their own inner guides (instinct, conscience, whatever). Others desire an external authority to defer to -- even if it is just an illusion of an external authority. There are lots of reasons why people might want that; the fact remains, many do. Also, we can argue forever about whether those who want an external authority to follow really do believe that X is "a good" or whether they are merely obeying the command to X because they believe that obeying the authority is "a good." Or whether they are doing it for any other reason.

Personally, speaking only for myself, I follow my own inner guides. I have my own set of ethics and my own concepts of good/bad, right/wrong, which I believe in. I question and test my own beliefs frequently, to keep them up to date, as it were. I will accept no authority that conflicts with my beliefs. That is why I was merrily going my own way, rejecting one religion after another as wrong for me, until I chanced upon animism and said, okay, this is a good fit for what I already am, and I slapped that label on my head. I do that with all my beliefs/philosophies -- develop my own thoughts and then find the label/group that best describes them, after the fact.

In animism, this is not really an issue because aside from the general advice that harmony is better than conflict and that if you create conflict, you will be unhappy, animism does not really try to dictate how people live. It just provides a set of spiritual life tools that people can use or not, as they choose, and it tells us what the likely consequences of not using them or misusing them will be. But it doesn't try to pressure people into using them as some kind of moral obligation. Blind obedience is not a virtue in animism. Animism posits a universe of spirits that may be either good or evil, wise or ignorant, generous or selfish, honest or conniving. So it is entirely possible that any given spirit or god may tell me that something is good and right and I should do it, and that I will not believe this spirit/god and will not comply. The consequences of non-compliance will be whatever they are, good, bad or indifferent.

If the belief is good inherantly, then why does your religion command it? what i'm saying is, what is the purpose of the religion you follow?
As I hinted above, the "purpose" of animist religions is to provide practical assistance for people to negotiate the spiritual side of reality, to help us in our dealings with our invisible neighbors, as it were. Of all religions, animism is perhaps the most practical in its application. As far as I know, there are relatively few animist rituals dealing with morals or the state of our souls or praising god(s), but thousands upon thousands of rituals dealing with ordinary daily occurrences and activities so we may keep our lives flowing smoothly. (I often comment that animism is not a good religion for people with OCD.)

So animism does not command us to be "good," nor does it define "good" beyond the general desirability of happiness and harmony.

As far as i'm aware is it not better to have a moral belief system that allows for some flexibility so that over time people can adapt to changes (such as recent advances in Genetic modification and Genetic manipulation), and it gives reasons why they are good.
As I indicated above, animists do not use their religion as an authority to tell them what is good or bad, or to approve or disapprove various things in life. For instance, genetic modification exists. Because of this, we may now assume the existence of spirits or gods in charge of it and its products, and deal with them directly -- or not deal with them, as our circumstances require. If anyone working in the field of genetic modification happens to be an animist, they would probably be wise to seek the help of these new spirits/gods, as well as the older ones of the plants/animals they are trying to modify. For me, personally, as an animist speaking religiously, whether genetic modification turns out to be "good" or "bad" will depend on how it is done -- whether it is done in a way that promotes harmony or creates disharmony. So in a way, that will be a spiritual critique of a practical issue.

When it comes to adapting to a changing world, animism is remarkably flexible. Since it is far more concerned with practical needs than moral precepts, it more reacts to reality than tries to dictate reality. Animism has no fear of the new. Animist religions are notorious for spawning fad cults in response to just about anything, and for spinning off whole new religions willy-nilly, even old religions transforming themselves into new ones, as society changes around them. Animism is so intensely personal -- so tied up with the immediate experiences of individuals, their memories, their emotions, their desires -- that there is not even such a thing as an animist liturgy. As far as I know, there is no animist religion that writes down its prayers, moral precepts, lists of sins, or any of that kind of thing. Function so overwhelms form in animism, and personal spiritual connection is so highly valued, that it is considered better to make up prayers and rituals on the spot than to follow anything like a holy text. There are no holy texts in animism. Therefore there is nothing that defines the world or life, and therefore nothing that needs to be edited to match reality.

I believe this flexibility in reaction to reality is why animism has persisted as a recognizable form of religion for at least 7,000 to 10,000 years (or more, according to some academics).

So if people can choose their own religion, doesn't that mean that foundational knowledge plays no part in their decisions, because if there was foundational knowledge would this not require them to believe as you do?
Would you please define "foundational knowledge" in this context? The way I usually understand that term, I tend to reject it as giving a gloss of "knowledge" to what is, in reality, merely assumption (i.e. that one's beliefs are true).

My own personal approach to the question of multiple religions is that, while I believe that my worldview is correct due to personal experience, I know that I cannot prove its correctness to anyone else, nor can I prove any incorrectness in anyone else's view. Therefore, since I cannot prove they are wrong, it would be the height of presumptuousness for me to go about telling them they are wrong. For all I know, they may be right -- which, by the way, does not presuppose that I might be wrong. How can I presume to know the totality of reality, of the universe, of possible human experience? Since I am aware of the limitations of my own awareness (hehe), there is no reason for me to suppose that we cannot both be right, in different ways, in different contexts, for different purposes.

Animism reflects this way of thinking again. Animist religions specifically recognize and accept what they call "double-faith" or "multi-faith." This allows animists to practice more than one religion at a time, depending on their needs. In fact, this is another thing animists are notorious for. I say "notorious" because most of the modern religions they are exposed to and take up (i.e. Islam and Christianity) want to claim exclusive rights over them, but converted animists almost always continue with their animist beliefs -- as well as any Buddhist, Hindu, or other beliefs they may have taken up too -- at the same time they attend church or mosque (or both). In my personal opinion, if you want to know why Indonesia and the Pacific regions are so much worse a hotbed of Islamic fundamentalism than even the Middle East -- always yelling and stamping and bombing because they say their beliefs are being corrupted -- this has something to do with it. Animism is still the indigenous living religion of that part of the world, always has been, and has formed the very spirit of those cultures, in which people take up religions the way they try on new clothes. The Christian and Muslim evangelists have their hands full over there -- shoveling against the tide, if you ask me.