NationStates Jolt Archive

If you couldn't reach your child, no matter how close, if your sister couldn't hear you, no matter how much you just wanted to say "I love you", what would you do?


Although its causes are poorly understood, cognitive pathologies such as Autism don't need to be hopeless. There is growing evidence that the neurophysiological character of these disorders can be addressed, if only the repetitive loop could be interrupted, even sparsely.


Even with acute cases, there is a growing body of research that indicates that interaction coupled with a deliberate, if brief, moment of mindfullness on the part of the subject can change the neural paths.

Some neurophysicists have likened this effect to rain falling on a meadow; it cuts gashes that become rivers that seem inescapable, but with time and training, even a river can be rerouted.

Trained therapists are a possibility, but associated costs can quickly exhaust even middle class families....

But what about software? Imagine if dozens, hundreds, even thousands of sounds and images could be tried, until one is found that captures even the slightest attention.

Could not an algorithm be discovered, as well as a response heuristic developed, that could, by an automated biometric machine, put a child through hundreds of corrective iterations, without the need for the constant attention of an educated, expensive professional?

There are great minds, here on nationstates. Ideas?

All I can say, is that a medical student and having an autistic younger brother, living with a person with autism may be a bit more challenging, but very much more rewarding. :) And yes, therapists are expensive. :(

All I can say, is that a medical student and having an autistic younger brother, living with a person with autism may be a bit more challenging, but very much more rewarding. :) And yes, therapists are expensive. :(

As someone with more formal training in the medical field than I, what is your opinion on interactive technology as a therapeutic dynamic for this kind of condition?

But what about software? Imagine if dozens, hundreds, even thousands of sounds and images could be tried, until one is found that captures even the slightest attention.

I don't know much about autism, but I'd like to learn. My only real experience with autism was with an autistic child in a special day class I subbed in for a few days. His autism was severe; at 8 he could feed himself, but he couldn't dress himself, use the bathroom or speak. In my short time with him I discovered that a LOT of things could "set him off"--certain sounds especially seemed to agitate him. I think your suggestion could be hit-or-miss; too much sensory input can be overstimulating (in my experience with him), but certain things could also be helpful. For instance, he really liked to play with things he could move around in a pattern, or that moved themselves, like snowglobes, fans, etc. He loved swings, too; I know certain special kinds of swings are used a lot with autistic children.

Of all the moderate to severe children I worked with, he stood out the most, probably because to the casual glance he looked so normal. And yet he could barely function and his parents refused to send him to the autism school that could have helped him. I remember that he was an especially lovely boy, because I mentioned it to someone and they said it was a comment often made about autistic children for some reason.

In my short time with him I discovered that a LOT of things could "set him off"--certain sounds especially seemed to agitate him. I think your suggestion could be hit-or-miss; too much sensory input can be overstimulating (in my experience with him), but certain things could also be helpful. For instance, he really liked to play with things he could move around in a pattern, or that moved themselves, like snowglobes, fans, etc. He loved swings, too; I know certain special kinds of swings are used a lot with autistic children.

I think one of the most challenging elements in the development of this treatment model is determining which response is a desirable, attention-reinforcing event and which may be antagonizing to the child.

Although the hope is that the program would "learn" this distinction, the process of arriving at this model may result in maladaptive response patterns.

While we're on the subject of autism, I would like to add that I am 100% opposed to the idea of a "cure" for it.

While we're on the subject of autism, I would like to add that I am 100% opposed to the idea of a "cure" for it.

Why?

While we're on the subject of autism, I would like to add that I am 100% opposed to the idea of a "cure" for it.

Suppose a treatment were developed but only offered as a choice to those autistic adults who gave informed consent?

This would naturally preclude my described approach, but if there were autistic individuals who were not opposed to a cure, would you be against applying reasonable resources to the development of a non-compulsory treatment?

Why?

Autism (or in my case, Asperger Syndrome) helps shape who I am. Then there's the massive potential for abuse. What if the government tried to "cure" ASD people without their consent?

Autism (or in my case, Asperger Syndrome) helps shape who I am. Then there's the massive potential for abuse. What if the government tried to "cure" ASD people without their consent?

Forcing people who don't want to receive treatment to be treated without informed consent would be wrong.

Forcing people who DO want treatment to go without that treatment by precluding the development of a cure takes their choice away, as well.

To respect individual choice, a treatment can be developed but not enforced.

Autism (or in my case, Asperger Syndrome) helps shape who I am. Then there's the massive potential for abuse. What if the government tried to "cure" ASD people without their consent?

What evidence is there to support your fears? I would think that this would be used by parents, caretaker, therapists. ect of autistic children to help said children overcome their disabilities. It shaped you but who would force a cure on you? Are there any aspects of Asperger's that you dislike? Would you want to get rid of them? I know I would like to get rid of my sensitivity to certain noises.

Autism (or in my case, Asperger Syndrome) helps shape who I am. Then there's the massive potential for abuse. What if the government tried to "cure" ASD people without their consent?

It could be argued that any and all events, conditions, and experiences help shape each of us.

While it is possible the government could abuse a "cure" by imposing it, it would also be an abuse to deny treatment to those who want it.

Are there any aspects of Asperger's that you dislike?

Yes.

Would you want to get rid of them?

I don't know.

Yes.



I don't know.

Are you in favor of social and/or economic accomodation and subsity for those with Autism?

In your country, is there legislation regarding the needs of the autistic and mandating special treatment and expenditure for people with autism?

They found a way to simulate high-functioning autism in normal people, so I figure, they should be close to figuring out how to break autism.

Autism is no more of a disease than having blue eyes or being born on a thursday. If anything, what needs to be cured is the ignorance that makes too many people assume autism is a negative thing (it's not).

Autism is no more of a disease than having blue eyes or being born on a thursday. If anything, what needs to be cured is the ignorance that makes too many people assume autism is a negative thing (it's not).

No, it's definitely a disease.

As I have said on many occasions, I dont think its right to force a 'cure' onto people, people should be allowed to choose whether they wish their 'disability' to be taken away.

Are you in favor of social and/or economic accomodation and subsity for those with Autism?

No.

In your country, is there legislation regarding the needs of the autistic and mandating special treatment and expenditure for people with autism?

I'm not sure.

As someone with more formal training in the medical field than I, what is your opinion on interactive technology as a therapeutic dynamic for this kind of condition?
I have to admit first that I hadn't studied autism spectrum disorders more thoroughly (and perhaps my mother would know more than me!). I do want to know what would this "interactive technology" would be.

But with therapy, he's come a long way now. And I do not mean drugs or other stuff, his therapy was going to a tutor and his doctor, time, patience and perseverance by the caregivers and family. What he wants now, and what we support, is him going to college.

As for economic subsidy and stuff, speaking from experience, it can be an incredible strain in finances. Especially in this country where we have no universal health care coverage and many people do not have insurance (and even no unemployment benefit!) AND where public health care is slow, lousy, and at sometimes still costly, some poor folks do not even seek treatment for their autistic child. Sometimes these children can be seen chained or locked in cages - partly because of lack of health infrastructure, the poverty of the people, and poor education and misconceptions. So I think it shouldn't be direct subsidy, the whole health system (our health system, that is) must be reformed to make treatment more affordable to those who would wish to avail of it.

What is autism exactly? As in symptoms etc.

If I had a child I couldn't get through to I would still be kind and loving to the child and try to do the best I could for them.

Autism is no more of a disease than having blue eyes or being born on a thursday. If anything, what needs to be cured is the ignorance that makes too many people assume autism is a negative thing (it's not).

Explain your reasoning.

Autism is no more of a disease than having blue eyes or being born on a thursday. If anything, what needs to be cured is the ignorance that makes too many people assume autism is a negative thing (it's not).

Since criteria for autism can include (but are not limited to nor always inclusive of)

Resistence to change
Difficulty in expressing needs
Tantrums
Lack of empathy
Inability to understand the give and take nature of conversation


It is reasonable to infer that the condition may be more limiting to a person than having blue eyes or a Thursday birth.


Calling others ignorant for not sharing your interpretation, as well as neglecting the possibility that some autistic individuals might feel differently (as evidenced by their desire for access to their legally entitled special accomodations and subsidy for disability, something blue eyed people have made no claim to), is both perjorative and presumptive.


If some wish to reject a treatment, that's fine and I would support their right to do so. For the others to accept a treatment, that treatment must exist, and your mentality is obstructive to the development of a treatment.

While you have the right to any mentality you like, yours impedes the rights of whatever portion of autistics there exists that desires a treatment.


To put it simply:

If a treatment exists, it can be accepted or rejected. Choice is respected.

If you prevent a treatment, it can't be accepted. You have robbed others of choice.

As I have said on many occasions, I dont think its right to force a 'cure' onto people, people should be allowed to choose whether they wish their 'disability' to be taken away.

I agree, but for that choice to exist (whether to accept a "cure" or not), the cure must exist.

If people obstruct the development of a treatment, they are taking choice away from those who might have chosen to accept a treatment.

By contrast, those who advocate the development of a cure can still respect the rights of some to reject the treatment.

I think the problem we have treating Autism today is that we view it as a disorder in and of itself. I don't think it is, I think Autism is a symptom that can be caused by a variety of disorders. This would explain why some treatments work just fine on some Autistics and not at all on others.

I think the problem we have treating Autism today is that we view it as a disorder in and of itself. I don't think it is, I think Autism is a symptom that can be caused by a variety of disorders. This would explain why some treatments work just fine on some Autistics and not at all on others.

That's certainly possible, as most diagnostic criteria for autism that I've seen are purely symptomatic.

What do you think of those who don't consider it a disorder at all?

I personally think people should have the choice of either having it treated as a disorder or rejecting any treatment, but some of have said it is "ignorance" to consider it a disorder, comparing it to being born on a Thursday in terms of relevance. I'm not really on board with that, since people born on Thursday don't have impeded life functions, whereas some autistic people have described their life functions as impeded.

I think the problem we have treating Autism today is that we view it as a disorder in and of itself. I don't think it is, I think Autism is a symptom that can be caused by a variety of disorders. This would explain why some treatments work just fine on some Autistics and not at all on others.

I think a lot of a problems with treating mental illnesses in general comes from difficulties in diagnosing it. For depression, theres a list of 30 symptoms and you need 5 of them to be diagnosed with depression. With that range of symptoms, it could be possible that there are several causes of depression, not just one. There might not be any one way to treat depression cause it could be caused by different things.

I think the problem we have treating Autism today is that we view it as a disorder in and of itself. I don't think it is, I think Autism is a symptom that can be caused by a variety of disorders. This would explain why some treatments work just fine on some Autistics and not at all on others.

I think a lot of a problems with treating mental illnesses in general comes from difficulties in diagnosing it. For depression, theres a list of 30 symptoms and you need 5 of them to be diagnosed with depression. With that range of symptoms, it could be possible that there are several causes of depression, not just one. There might not be any one way to treat depression cause it could be caused by different things.

I think a lot of a problems with treating mental illnesses in general comes from difficulties in diagnosing it. For depression, theres a list of 30 symptoms and you need 5 of them to be diagnosed with depression. With that range of symptoms, it could be possible that there are several causes of depression, not just one. There might not be any one way to treat depression cause it could be caused by different things.

The complexities of differential models would be depressing if it wasn't a good step towards a treatment.

Or maybe that isn't a good thing, according to some. (see Trial thread)

That's certainly possible, as most diagnostic criteria for autism that I've seen are purely symptomatic.

What do you think of those who don't consider it a disorder at all?


To be blunt I feel that they're idiots. If it keeps you from effectively interacting with society or living unassisted then it qualifies as a disorder.