NationStates Jolt Archive

Yes, he must be (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080325/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_iraq).

When will this idiot stop viewing our "progress" (or, rather, lack thereof) through rose-tinted glasses?

If this sticks mainly to the situation in Iraq, it stays. If it wanders too far into the US elections, expect a lock or merge, capisce?

Meanwhile, evidence of Saddam's links to terrorist organisations,

Link (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120631495290958169.html?mod=hps_us_mostpop_viewed)

For 20 years, such "support" included using Fedayeen Saddam training camps to school terrorists, especially Palestinians but also non-Iraqis "directly associated" with al Qaeda, continuing up to the fall of Baghdad. Saddam also provided financial support and weapons, amounting to "a state-directed program of significant scale." In July 2001, the regime began patronizing a terror cartel in Bahrain calling itself the Army of Muhammad, which, according to an Iraqi memo, "is under the wings of bin Laden."

Facts are all about interpretation , it's a frustrating world where agenda takes precedence over truth.

If this sticks mainly to the situation in Iraq, it stays. If it wanders too far into the US elections, expect a lock or merge, capisce?

I understand everything except for capisce.

If this sticks mainly to the situation in Iraq, it stays. If it wanders too far into the US elections, expect a lock or merge, capisce?

Sounds fair.

meh. We sacrificed Iraq, for multiple reasons. We're using it as a front for the war on terrorism. The only problem is now what? Mission accomplished... we established a battlefront in a no-front war. The cost? A country we already didn't like and were in a temporary cease-fire with. That much makes sense to me... but the question is: how long do we stay and fight? And if we want to leave soon, how do we escalate this to a war again, instead of insurgence control? And then, what do we do with the government afterwards? It was a tough call to make from the beginning, but it seems to be working so far... even if most americans are blind idiots. 4,000 troops is sad, 1 troop dead is sad... but it's better than what could have been without any action, from any estimation.

I don't know if i'm going to vote for mccain or not... is this worth sticking around in? The american people will probably never allow provocation to full war, and frankly I don't want to imagine how we'd do that. So maybe I'll vote for Obama? Maybe we should just leave it as is and pull out, see what happens... and if our worst nightmares happen to come true, we can just redeploy.

I'm actually really stuck on this...

Can we discuss John McCain on crack?

Here's a visual aide:
http://www.boomspeed.com/looonatic/mccainsquint.jpg

Does crack make him think he's a pirate, or does it just constipate him something awful? You decide. *nod*

meh. We sacrificed Iraq, for multiple reasons. We're using it as a front for the war on terrorism. The only problem is now what? Mission accomplished... we established a battlefront in a no-front war. The cost? A country we already didn't like and were in a temporary cease-fire with. That much makes sense to me... but the question is: how long do we stay and fight? And if we want to leave soon, how do we escalate this to a war again, instead of insurgence control? And then, what do we do with the government afterwards? It was a tough call to make from the beginning, but it seems to be working so far... even if most americans are blind idiots. 4,000 troops is sad, 1 troop dead is sad... but it's better than what could have been without any action, from any estimation.

Ah, the old "We Fight Them Over There So We Don't Have To Fight Them Over Here" meme. Better known to people with common sense as World of Jihadcraft, the perfect zone for ambitious insurgents and terrorists to gain experience and skills in preparation for the real raids. Maybe even on U.S. soil.

Can we discuss John McCain on crack?

Here's a visual aide:
http://www.boomspeed.com/looonatic/mccainsquint.jpg

Does crack make him think he's a pirate, or does it just constipate him something awful? You decide. *nod*

I dunno, that pic looks like McCain realizes he has to Do Blow That Doesn't Involve Cocaine.

Hey, why not. Iraq's number one import right now is terrorists. And their number one export is anything BUT that oil for food crap. So, as long as osama, as quoted indirectly in the original post, said... terrorists focus on Iraq. It's a contained mess... if that makes sense :)

Anyone notice they're using more and more female suicide bombers? yeah that's probably been mentioned a million times here, so i won't but touch on that.

Hey, why not. Iraq's number one import right now is terrorists. And their number one export is anything BUT that oil for food crap. So, as long as osama, as quoted indirectly in the original post, said... terrorists focus on Iraq. It's a contained mess... if that makes sense :)


Because hundreds of thousands of dead brown people by American aggression, many who's only guilt was being born, are less tragic than even the possibility of a single American dead...

Because hundreds of thousands of dead brown people by American aggression, many who's only guilt was being born, are less tragic than even a single American dead...

Oh of course someone had to bring this into a racial debate *eyeroll* A country like Iraq goes around invading surrounding nations like Kuwait for fun and money, gets its trash kicked, calls a cease fire with no real terms, starts scamming other countries out of their money while its people continue to starve, and then just expects us to forget about it if enough time passes. We had plenty of reasons, WMDs or not, to go in... and it seemed like an acceptable sacrifice to bring a front to our war on terrorism.

If you ever got the idea that we're doing this because of race or religion, you let me know who convinced you of that, and I'll go kick them in the nuts.

Because hundreds of thousands of dead brown people by American aggression, many who's only guilt was being born, are less tragic than even the possibility of a single American dead...

You do know people who subscribe to "We Fight Them Over There So We Don't Have To Fight Them Over Here" generally also subscribe to "Nits Make Lice."

Some choice McCain quotes from the article:

"For the first time, I have seen Osama bin Laden and General (David) Petraeus in agreement, and, that is, a central battleground in the battle against al-Qaida is in Iraq today. And that's what bin Laden was saying and that's what General Petraeus is saying and that's what I'm saying, my friends," McCain said.
We're succeeding. I don't care what anybody says.
Indeed.

Oh of course someone had to bring this into a racial debate *eyeroll* A country like Iraq goes around invading surrounding nations like Kuwait for fun and money, gets its trash kicked, calls a cease fire with no real terms, starts scamming other countries out of their money while its people continue to starve, and then just expects us to forget about it if enough time passes. We had plenty of reasons, WMDs or not, to go in... and it seemed like an acceptable sacrifice to bring a front to our war on terrorism.

If you ever got the idea that we're doing this because of race or religion, you let me know who convinced you of that, and I'll go kick them in the nuts.

It's nothing to do with race my dear dummy. It's got everything to do with the entire idea that by killing a lot of un-people, meaning non-Westerners who mostly haven't done anything wrong, American's will be safer.

If this is the case, then you should have no qualms about me killing Americans by the truckload today, so that I and those of my nation will be safer from a possible attack.

And the reason why the people of Iraq starved has as much to do with Saddam's corruption as it did with the Western powers starving the nation of supplies and bomb their infrastructure every so often for 10 years. So convenient of you to forget that.

And it was Americans who put out the cease fire. Strictly for the reasons that invading Iraq would have made a bigger mess than kicking them out of Kuwait would have caused.

As for invading countries for fun and money, hmmm, I wonder what America was doing in Panama? It couldn't have anything to do about controlling the Panama canal, oh no. They certainly wouldn't invade other countries just so that they could seize control of strategic economic and military assets like the Panama Canal. Yeah right.

Ah, but you don't really care about non-Americans. The world can burn, billions can die. So that you can go to sleep not having to worry that you might be attacked.

It's nothing to do with race my dear dummy.Oh, it has at least a little to do with race. If 100,000 Europeans were dead and 4 million displaced, it would be called a holocaust or a genocide. If they were English speaking, Bush would have been hanged long ago. If they were African, however, nobody would so much as blink except for Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, for which the media would mock and marginalize them as playing the race card.

Meanwhile, evidence of Saddam's links to terrorist organisations,

Link (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120631495290958169.html?mod=hps_us_mostpop_viewed)



Facts are all about interpretation, it's a frustrating world where agenda takes precedence over truth.

Exactly. Anyway, here's a link to the report:
Saddam and Terrorism:
Emerging Insights from
Captured Iraqi Documents (http://a.abcnews.com/images/pdf/Pentagon_Report_V1.pdf)

The thing that puzzles me is this one:

v. Conclusion
One question remains regarding Iraq's terrorism capability: Is there anything in the captured archives to indicate that Saddam had the will to use his terrorist capabilities directly against United States? Judging from examples of Saddam's statements (Extract 34) before the 1991 Gulf War with the United States, the answer is yes.
Extract 34.
[19 April 1990]
"If America interferes we will strike. You know us, we are not the talkative type who holds the microphone and says things only, we do what we say. Maybe we cannot reach Washington but we can send someone with an explosive belt to reach Washington."
"We can send people to Washington... a person with explosive belt around him could throw himself on Bush's car. 107
In the years between the two Gulf Wars, UN sanctions reduced Saddam's ability to shape regional and world events, steadily draining his military, economic, and military powers. The rise of Islamist fundamentalism in the region gave Saddam the opportunity to make terrorism, one of the few tools remaining in Saddam's "coercion" toolbox, not only cost effective but a formal instrument of state power. Saddam nurtured this capability with an infrastructure supporting (1) his own particular brand of state terrorism against internal and external threats, (2) the state sponsorship of suicide operations, and (3) organizational relationships and "outreach programs" for terrorist groups. Evidence that was uncovered and analyzed attests to the existence of a terrorist capability and a willingness to use it until the day Saddam was forced to flee Baghdad by Coalition forces.
However, the evidence is less clear in terms of Saddam's declared will at the time of OPERATION IRAQI FREEDOM in 2003. 108 Even with access to significant parts of the regime's most secretive archive, the answer to the question of Saddam's will in the final months in power remains elusive. Potentially, more significant documents and media files are awaiting analysis or are even yet to be discovered.
As noted in the foreword of this paper, access to the captured archives of this regime provides researchers with the ability to document a part of the context in which this regime operated. While this context is far from complete, it provides at least one glimpse into the complex nexus between state and non-state terror.

Can't anyone get it right? It's "We're fighting them over there so they don't have to fight us over here."

Can't anyone get it right? It's "We're fighting them over there so they don't have to fight us over here."

You forgot the addendum. "And over the corpses of thousands who bloody wish we had left them alone."

Mmmh...I think he's doing too much, yup :]

But about getting out of Irak, I'm not so sure.
I was strongly against this war, but now that you are there, I don't think you could go out easily.

If US troops leave the country, what would happen now ?
An islamist Republic of Irak, vassal to Iran ?

An all-out civil war ?

Can we discuss John McCain on crack?

Here's a visual aide:
http://www.boomspeed.com/looonatic/mccainsquint.jpg

Does crack make him think he's a pirate, or does it just constipate him something awful? You decide. *nod*

He looks severely constipated.

Can we discuss John McCain on crack?

Here's a visual aide:
http://www.boomspeed.com/looonatic/mccainsquint.jpg

Does crack make him think he's a pirate, or does it just constipate him something awful? You decide. *nod*

Add an eye patch and a cigar and looks like Nick Fury.
Or virate the skin color to green and the hair to black and you'll see THE HULK!

Maybe I've been reading too much comics when I was younger...

Add an eye patch and a cigar and looks like Nick Fury.
Or virate the skin color to green and the hair to black and you'll see THE HULK!

Maybe I've been reading too much comics when I was younger...

lol

lol

Really, I tried...
Get the picture and make a 0,1 gamma correction on the red and blue channels.
It is the right colour too...

EDIT:
The real question right now is: "After having a simian President. Do Americans want THE HULK as their leader?".
It could become a trend though:
43. President - The planet of the apes
44. President - The Hulk
45. President - The Terminator

McCain is too chubby to be on crack.

You forgot the addendum. "And over the corpses of thousands who bloody wish we had left them alone."

Care to prove that is what they want?

I'm actually really stuck on this...

That's because you don't care about human life.

Yes, he must be (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080325/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_iraq).

When will this idiot stop viewing our "progress" (or, rather, lack thereof) through rose-tinted glasses?
I agree with him. We are succeeding at making Iraq a terrorist-laden hellhole.

And if Patraeus is one of the great generals in American history, all the actual greatest generals in American history are going to rise from their graves and carry out a zombie revolution on the American government's ass.

an acceptable sacrifice to bring a front to our war on terrorism.

Would your mother be an acceptable sacrifice? Your sister? All your friends, maybe? Let's say the US decided to help install dictatorships all over South America (which it once did). Would a war against the US be acceptable then? Killing your family? Picture, if you will, a Brazilian soldier raping your sister then murdering her. Would it be an "acceptable sacrifice"? Or does the notion of "acceptable sacrifice" you dared to create only work against people that are not YOU?

Care to prove that is what they want?

You mean more than the countless researches do?

McCain is too chubby to be on crack.

But not too chubby to be on LSD.

You mean more than the countless researches do?

He said the word corpses not the living.

He said the word corpses not the living.

Please tell me you're joking.

PLEASE. Lie to me if need be.

As the Republican candidate, McCain cannot separate himself from the Republican platform too much... It makes the whole party look bad. Remember, in first party politics, it doesn't matter what the candidate himself actually believes, they all have to be political mouthpieces for their party... Democrats are every bit as guility of it too, that's just how politics is now a'days.

Need proof? Notice trends throughout modern United States history... Whenever as president went against his party's platform, there was always a lot of drama. For instance, Bill Clinton signing the welfare reform act... Lots of Democrats got absolutely pissed at him doing that. If he did more things like that, the whole party would probably turn against him.

Another good example is Ron Paul, coincidently the candidate I was going for. He had the balls to stand up for libertarianism and he was shot down for it.

Best pic ever.

Wait, let me just collect this little line of conversation into one post so I can get if I'm reading it correctly.

You forgot the addendum. "And over the corpses of thousands who bloody wish we had left them alone."

Care to prove that is what they want?

You mean more than the countless researches do?

He said the word corpses not the living.

what the shit

Iraqis are masochists who love getting blown up?

You forgot the addendum. "And over the corpses of thousands who bloody wish we had left them alone."

yes its so much better to kill untold thousands of innocents in a country that never did anything to us than it is to try to stop a few thousands deaths here.

its an evil philosophy. especially when you consider that it does nothing to prevent even one death here.

Care to prove that is what they want?

They who? Unless the Op has undergone mitosis, there's only one of him, and he's clearly willing to sacrifice brown people so he can be safer. All in the name of patriotism of course.

Maybe he doesn't thunder "slaughter the innocent!", but he's clearly beating the drum of "smash other nations so our enemies will fight there, the innocent be damned!"

As for the Iraqis, I don't have a spirit medium, sorry, so I can't give you up to date information on what the dead ones want right now, but I'm making a relatively safe guess that they'd rather not have been blown up, shot, electrocuted, strangled, cut to pieces or any other form of death that the US has visited to them.

Add an eye patch and a cigar and looks like Nick Fury.
Or virate the skin color to green and the hair to black and you'll see THE HULK!


The Hulk? Or McCain's true nature? (http://aycu03.webshots.com/image/50202/2002736504522605249_rs.jpg)

Another good example is Ron Paul, coincidently the candidate I was going for. He had the balls to stand up for libertarianism and he was shot down for it.
Ron Paul was/is a fucking crackpot.

Ron Paul was/is a fucking crackpot.

Unless he either died or got better, "is".

If McCain is not on crack, I think he should take it up, because he really needs an excuse.

And (reading the thread) he's not the only one, apparently. I cannot believe there are people who still believe that "fight them over there/saddam supported al-qaeda/war on terror" propaganda bullshit, who aren't high on something. How many times does a lie have to be exposed before people will stop believing it?

Yes, he must be (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080325/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_iraq).

When will this idiot stop viewing our "progress" (or, rather, lack thereof) through rose-tinted glasses?

I'm not sure about the exact numbers but I think many American companies have made large profits in that war, so at least that was a success.
I guess it also helped in dividing Europe, which I guess is also a success for American politicians.
There must be other ways in which this was a success once you stop looking at the war from the pov of a normal American or Iraqi but start looking from an other pov.

<snip>

As for invading countries for fun and money, hmmm, I wonder what America was doing in Iraq? <snip>

Ah, but you don't really care about non-Americans. The world can burn, billions can die. So that you can go to sleep not having to worry that you might be attacked.
I took the liberty of updating your comment, hope you don't mind. :)

And as to the last paragraph, well, huh-duh. The whole point of civilization is to live in a never-ending, violent, directionless, shifting haze of fear of "The Other"; kill anything that gives you even the slightest twinge of hinkiness, quick before it can get you or your blond children; and pay through the nose to support a military-industrial complex for the privilege, even as it kills more of your blond children than all the terrorists in the world ever could; all while patriotically singing the ultimate anthem: "They Can All Go To Hell Except For Cave #76". That's what we've all been working towards through all of history and evolution. This is it, friend. Welcome to Nirvana.

Anyone who thinks Osama is still alive and those tapes aren't fakes is on crack.

Eh, he advocated the troop surge before everyone else did and won't withdraw the troops immediately. Sounds good to me.

Eh, he advocated the troop surge before everyone else did and won't withdraw the troops immediately. Sounds good to me.

yes, but that is because you are crazy.

Can we discuss John McCain on crack?

Here's a visual aide:
http://www.boomspeed.com/looonatic/mccainsquint.jpg

Does crack make him think he's a pirate, or does it just constipate him something awful? You decide. *nod*


He needs a corncob pipe and a can of spinach

Anyone who thinks Osama is still alive and those tapes aren't fakes is on crack.

This.