NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/0308/Frank_calls_for_decriminalizing_small_amounts_of_marijuan.html

Rep. Barney Frank will soon introduce legislation to decriminalize small amounts of marijuana, the Massachusetts Democrat said during an appearance on HBO's "Real Time with Bill Maher."
...
Asked by Maher as to why he would push a pot decriminalization bill now, Frank said the American public has already decided that personal use of marijuana is not a problem.

"I now think it's time for the politicians to catch up to the public," Frank said. "The notion that you lock people up for smoking marijuana is pretty silly. I'm going to call it the 'Make Room for Serious Criminals' bill."

shame it won't go anywhere yet, though.

how would one classify small?

how would one classify small?

i vote for 'able to be carried by a small elephant'

i vote for 'able to be carried by a small elephant'

drugs and zoos should always be associated :)

*shoots self with elephant tranquilizer*

how would one classify small?

That would be "Enough to supply the South American continent". :rolleyes:

i vote for 'able to be carried by a small elephant'But, but, that's recursive. Where will you find an elephant that can carry an elephant like itself?

how would one classify small?

"An amount which the user could roll into a single joint and smoke all in one go."

It'd make court cases interesting. :)

But, but, that's recursive. Where will you find an elephant that can carry an elephant like itself?

eBay?

What's with this whole posession vs. trafficking thing anyway? For someone to use marijuana, someone had to make it. We don't see this "ok to smoke, not ok to sell smokes" thing with tobacco; I've heard of ads comparing smokers to people who carry aluminum rods in thunderstorms. Wouldn't it be better if we could just legalize it so that we could treat marijuana dealers the same way we treat cigarette and alcohol companies now?

how would one classify small?

its usually an amount that could only reasonably be for personal use, not enough for distribution.

one ounce - a few ounces.

i would be happy if the feds got out of the drug law business and left it to the states to decide. especially marijuana laws. its silly to make personal use of marijuana a federal offense.

Here's a crazy idea: No criminal or civil prosecution for possession of marijuana unless (like with alcohol) you are driving an automobile or otherwise endangering others while under the influence.

The only potential drawback I see is exposing minors to second-hand marijuana smoke.

I don't smoke anything myself, but it bugs me to see holier-than-thou politicians saying "Thou shalt not!" They need to mind their own business and quit trying to legislate every aspect of our lives.

Here's a crazy idea: No criminal or civil prosecution for possession of marijuana unless (like with alcohol) you are driving an automobile or otherwise endangering others while under the influence.

I've always wondered this, how dangerous can a stoned driver be? and who the hell decides to go out and do stuff whilst high?!

The only potential drawback I see is exposing minors to second-hand marijuana smoke.

docile children is classed as a drawback now? :p

I don't smoke anything myself, but it bugs me to see holier-than-thou politicians saying "Thou shalt not!" They need to mind their own business and quit trying to legislate every aspect of our lives.

but marijuana is the devils plaything!

so out there, in the real world, are their actually significant portions of the population that actually oppose legalizing (or at least decriminalizing) marijuana?

so out there, in the real world, are their actually significant portions of the population that actually oppose legalizing (or at least decriminalizing) marijuana?

I'm guessing most of the 'good christian parents' of America do, which is probably a significant portion.

so out there, in the real world, are their actually significant portions of the population that actually oppose legalizing (or at least decriminalizing) marijuana?

Enough that drug warriors encourage police to put more effort into going after drug 'criminals' moreso than people who commit actual crimes (such as property crimes.)

And the funny thing is about the hysteria of those opposed to this bill, that you still have to pay $200 and get your stash confiscated if the authorities find you in possession. That's hardly encouraging everyone to go out and get high like some of those opposed to the bill are suggesting.

Unsure on the issue. Lost a couple of previously close friends to weed. But then I've lost a couple to alcohol, too, which is perfectly legal. *sigh*

Unsure on the issue. Lost a couple of previously close friends to weed. But then I've lost a couple to alcohol, too, which is perfectly legal. *sigh*

lost?

lost?
They spend all of their time either taking the stuff or getting money together to take it. It's pretty depressing, to be honest.

This B-S is just the first step towards USA becoming a heaven for useless potheads, like Holland is now.

Marijuana is just the gateway drug, which opens the door to all drug use as the users want different experiences.

Drugs are for the weak because they help the user escape their problems for the time of using them, instead of the user moving their worthless ass into dealing with the problems full stop.

And in the long-term, drug use kills the brain, and robs the user of the overall motivation to do anything with their life - they either have to kick the habit to regain the drive to live life, or be of the type to only be motivated when using drugs.

legalizing small amounts will only lead to users demanding more and more leniency, insisting on larger amounts until any possession levels are accepted.

This goes for the International outlook as well, for all those "lets copy america" nations, like australia and new zealand, will also lower their standards and become drug nations

Its not worth America opening yet another pandora's box then acting innocent about it

Most states have very clear threshold amounts to distinguish "personal use" (i.e., possession) and transference (i.e., trafficking) of marijuana. Establishing the "small amount" below which prosecution would not occur is relatively simple.

There'd need to be some pre-conditions to this exception to the drug laws, of course. You can't authorize use in public facilities (out of respect for others) unless that facility is specifically designed to accommodate marijuana smokers AND can provide alternative means of transportation to those patrons needing such. You'd also have to impose age restrictions.

Think of the puppy that will continue to eat until its belly pops and you'll understand why the age threshold is necessary.

Otherwise, I say PUFF PUFF GIVE! :D :fluffle:

They spend all of their time either taking the stuff or getting money together to take it. It's pretty depressing, to be honest.
Time and money spent doing things isn't a reason to prohibit them, some people spend a lot of time playing video games. In grade 12 biology class someone who sat at our table said he'd rather stay home and play World of Warcraft than go to his prom. o.o (and while I'm not sure, I think that's what he did, according to someone else at the table anyway)

Rather than blaming the drug for what the people who use the drug decide to do, why not take a personal-responsibility approach to it?

In grade 12 biology class someone who sat at our table said he'd rather stay home and play World of Warcraft than go to his prom. o.o

I've never played World of Warcraft, and if I did, I'm pretty sure I would hate it. But I still think that's a very reasonable assessment of the comparative worth of those two activities.

To make the point relevant: different people have different tastes. Best to leave them to it, usually.

I don't see why people and politicians insist on legalizing pot but not the other drugs. Booze is more potent than pot, so much so that you can actually overdose on it. What people do with their bodies is their business; so long as they don't hurt others there is no reason to restrict what they do. When you criminalize something that isn't a real crime you create real criminals.

Marijuana is just the gateway drug, which opens the door to all drug use
Ever consider how that might have more to do with society's reaction to marijuana than the drug itself? By having it illegal, you're putting it in the same category as heroin and crystal meth. Furthermore, with marijuana illegal, you can't regulate it, therefore don't know what other drugs the dealers might have mixed it with, and as such whatever you attribute to marijuana in people who obtain it illegally might have more to do with the drugs it's mixed with. Also, from what I've heard about marijuana outside school, it seems like society exaggerates how dangerous marijuana actually is. Well, if someone does marijuana and feels like they've been lied to about it, what's to stop them from assuming that they've been lied to about heroin and crystal meth?

What society really needs to be careful about is crying "wolf".

Drugs are for the weak because they help the user escape their problems for the time of using them, instead of the user moving their worthless ass into dealing with the problems full stop.
Note that you said "drugs" as if to refer to drugs in general; alcohol is a drug, and some people try to escape their problems through drinking, so should alcohol be illegal? If not, then aren't you being inconsistent when it comes to different drugs?

This goes for the International outlook as well, for all those "lets copy america" nations
Huh? If societies are only wanting to "copy" america, then isn't that a problem in itself to begin with?

It's a start.

"I'm going to call it the 'Make Room for Serious Criminals' bill."

Why does every bill or act in America have to have an advert for a name? Irritating.

This B-S is just the first step towards USA becoming a heaven for useless potheads, like Holland is now.
What, you think America doesn't have useless potheads?

Marijuana is just the gateway drug, which opens the door to all drug use as the users want different experiences.
Why do you single out cannabis - can one not want a different experience after trying alcohol or tobacco? Of course, one can buy alchohol or tobacco without ever coming into contact with hard drugs - I would much rather see most drugs which are safe in the public sphere legal, so that one can access the vast majority of relatively safe drugs without having to come into contact with hard drugs at all.

Prohibition creates the 'gateway'.

Drugs are for the weak because they help the user escape their problems for the time of using them, instead of the user moving their worthless ass into dealing with the problems full stop.
And? If I wanted to smoke my way out of a problem, I will regardless of what you or the State thinks of it. Best leave how people deal with their problems to themselves, I think, although perhaps just 'legalise what people are doing anyway' might be more appropriate.

And in the long-term, drug use kills the brain, and robs the user of the overall motivation to do anything with their life - they either have to kick the habit to regain the drive to live life, or be of the type to only be motivated when using drugs.
Yeah, alcoholism sucks.

legalizing small amounts will only lead to users demanding more and more leniency, insisting on larger amounts until any possession levels are accepted.
Good. As the OP said, it's a start.

This goes for the International outlook as well, for all those "lets copy america" nations, like australia and new zealand, will also lower their standards and become drug nations
Well, isn't that considerate of you. America knows best, eh?

Its not worth America opening yet another pandora's box then acting innocent about it
That argument has been used to justify almost every reactionary piece of legislation in history.

This B-S is just the first step towards USA becoming a heaven for useless potheads, like Holland is now.

In the Netherlands, drug use is tolerated, and a fair number of people do use drugs, yet they have none of the rampant addiction or drug violence plaguing the U.S.A.

To make the point relevant: different people have different tastes. Best to leave them to it, usually.

no! all must be made to adopt my preferences on everything!

To make the point relevant: different people have different tastes. Best to leave them to it, usually.

My idea is to legalise everything, then once the world is fucked up by heroin junkies and ice psychos, and everyone is begging for them to be re-criminalised, shoot everyone for wanting to make it legal in the first place.

My idea is to legalise everything, then once the world is fucked up by heroin junkies and ice psychos, and everyone is begging for them to be re-criminalised, shoot everyone for wanting to make it legal in the first place.

:confused:

I classify those who 'suffer' from alcoholism, to being struck a light form of mental disability, much akin to obsessive compulsive disorder where the individual is almost, to fully unable to avoid the urge to do that what they become obsessed over

Alcohol IS a light form of 'Drug' but it is a light one near the class of Nicotine or Caffeine - there are those who cant say no to a cigarette or a candy bar.

And yes, America does have alot of useless potheads, but i see it that it will be america to be the next country to openly tolerate it in public places like the Dutch have in their 'coffee houses' that sell marijuana, and that 'space cake' with marijuana baked into it, etc
My bet it will be california to be the first to open up to this idea.

I am not just picking on Marijuana, I see all drugs as the cheese for whatever idiot to allow themselves to walk into being trapped in a deadly habit that can only ever result in destroying themselves from the inside out - it is just that marijuana being the most readily available is usually the first one that drug users turn to to get into the drug habit and ruin their lives

Hopefully this will be the first step to complete legalization!

Hopefully this will be the first step to complete legalization!

Yay! Hard drugs for everyone!

It'll be cool; society will be like that game Bioshock, where everybody's attacking everybody else to get a fix.

Yay! Hard drugs for everyone!

It'll be cool; society will be like that game Bioshock, where everybody's attacking everybody else to get a fix.

Somehow I doubt it would entail that.

My idea is to legalise everything, then once the world is fucked up by heroin junkies and ice psychos, and everyone is begging for them to be re-criminalised, shoot everyone for wanting to make it legal in the first place.
I love the smell of hyperbole in the morning.

I classify those who 'suffer' from alcoholism, to being struck a light form of mental disability, much akin to obsessive compulsive disorder where the individual is almost, to fully unable to avoid the urge to do that what they become obsessed over
Where did you get that from? I've never seen such gobbledegook in my life. Alcoholism is an appalling condition which is just as much a physical (http://www.nhsdirect.nhs.uk/articles/article.aspx?articleId=10&sectionId=32) addiction as one can get from taking any other form of physically addictive drug. I can't see how anyone can see alcoholism as anything 'light'.

Alcohol IS a light form of 'Drug' but it is a light one near the class of Nicotine or Caffeine - there are those who cant say no to a cigarette or a candy bar.
Science disagrees. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5230006.stm#drugs) Unless, you know, you put Ketamine in your candy.

And yes, America does have alot of useless potheads, but i see it that it will be america to be the next country to openly tolerate it in public places like the Dutch have in their 'coffee houses' that sell marijuana, and that 'space cake' with marijuana baked into it, etc
My bet it will be california to be the first to open up to this idea.
Fine.

I am not just picking on Marijuana, I see all drugs as the cheese for whatever idiot to allow themselves to walk into being trapped in a deadly habit that can only ever result in destroying themselves from the inside out - it is just that marijuana being the most readily available is usually the first one that drug users turn to to get into the drug habit and ruin their lives
No, Alcohol is the most readily avaliable drug, and the one that currently does the most damage to our society at large - and does everything you seem to attribute to cannabis here.