NationStates Jolt Archive

Do they annoy you, too?
I honestly don't mind religious folks, half my family is still sort of religious and I've got a good few friends who are as well. I've got no problem at all with them. I don't mind debate about religious topics, either, I rather enjoy that actually (lots to do with my fascination for the human mind, development of emotions, instinct behaviour, etc)

But what really gets me and occasionally utterly enrages me are people who decide to try and actively convert others. I honestly hate them. I find their motives questionable at best, and their actions highly anti-social and a general nuisance.
And I don't make any distinction between Christians of various denominations, Muslims, Krishnas or any other flavour of religion for that matter! They are ALL annoying as fuck.
I've had Jehova's Witnesses hanging on my doorbell at weird hours, I've had Mormons cornering my in pedestrian zones when all I wanted to do was getting my shopping done and get home, I've had Krishnas jumping on me at the exit of department stores trying to "give" me free books but expecting donations for them, I've had Muslims littering my hall with pamphlets shoved through my mailbox, and Chrisitans of who knows what sect yelling at passers-by with megaphones and actively trying to prevent me from entering Ann Summers to buy some toys.

I've had it, I've really had it. It's impolite to the extreme, it's annoying, it's unnecessary. I do support the right to freedom of speech and everything that comes with it, but then I also support simple politeness to your fellow-human beings.
I don't mind anybody being religious, I don't mind them celebrating their religion as they see fit (within legal boundaries), and I certainly don't mind them talking about their religion to people who want to hear it. But get your bloody mind around the fact that most people HAVE heard it all before and JUST AREN'T INTERESTED!!! So stop bothering them! And that includes me!!!

[/rant]

I don't mind missionaries if they recognize when someone just isn't interested in converting, and decide not to push it. i.e., those who can quickly take a hint and leave non-interested people alone.

I don't mind missionaries if they recognize when someone just isn't interested in converting, and decide not to push it. i.e., those who can quickly take a hint and leave non-interested people alone.

Can't say I've met many of those so far :(

Hate em, theres about 5-10 hanging around the bus station where i transfer twice a day, annoying litle anklebiters...

Best advice i have is: Buy one of the 'Liber Chaotica' books from Games-Workshop, they detail how the worship of the (evil) chaos deities work. Preferably the one about Slaanesh, the god of excess. That one has a ncie amount of reference to sex, sacrifice, hedonism, etc. Guaranteed to freak them out beyond beleive. :)

Hate em, theres about 5-10 hanging around the bus station where i transfer twice a day, annoying litle anklebiters...

Best advice i have is: Buy one of the 'Liber Chaotica' books from Games-Workshop, they detail how the worship of the (evil) chaos deities work. Preferably the one about Slaanesh, the god of excess. That one has a ncie amount of reference to sex, sacrifice, hedonism, etc. Guaranteed to freak them out beyond beleive. :)

See, I tried things like that for a while... telling them about Satanism, Voodoo, even detailed accounts of rituals invented by Alastair Crowley. For some reason, it only seemed to make them want to try even harder.

That guy trying to stop me from going into Ann Summers, when I told him I was engaged but we're swingers so it's ok seemed to take this information as encouragement...

See, I tried things like that for a while... telling them about Satanism, Voodoo, even detailed accounts of rituals invented by Alastair Crowley. For some reason, it only seemed to make them want to try even harder.

That guy trying to stop me from going into Ann Summers, when I told him I was engaged but we're swingers so it's ok seemed to take this information as encouragement...

But did you bring pictures ? :)

The books i mentioned are written as if they're real, makes it easy to convince those loonies they are actually real.

Can't say I've met many of those so far :(

Me, neither. Then again, I've never met any missionaries, period. I'm just talking hypothetically.

Me, neither. Then again, I've never met any missionaries, period. I'm just talking hypothetically.

You've never... :eek:
Not even on Saturday mornings in pedestrian zones?
Not even Jehova's Witnesses ringing your doorbell at the weirdest hours?

Wow, you're really, really lucky, believe me.

I like messing with their heads. like: "What is your proof that $religion is the real one."

"The bible says it!"

"The shrutis of Hinduism say the same thing about the Hindu gods. That is as logical or as much lacking logic as your statement. Why shouldn't I be a Hindu?"

"I don't understand, I am from Greece."

:)

The only real experience i've had with this kind of thing was a lady who came to my door and asked me to read a passage from the Bible she had. When I told her I wouldn't she somehow assumed that my reason was that I couldn't read and proceeded to try and teach me how to. That was a little weird to be honest.

I used to work as a PR guy late at night for a local nightclub and there were always a group of people on the streets from a local church that called themselves the God Squad. They were actually reasonably ok and only handed out fliers telling people about their church (as well as giving out sweets)

You’ve never... :eek:
Not even on Saturday mornings in pedestrian zones?
Not even Jehova’s Witnesses ringing your doorbell at the weirdest hours?

Wow, you’re really, really lucky, believe me.
I’m the same as Magdha, the only people who’ve ever tried to cold-call preach to me where those Gouranga folks. There is some old dude who stands outside the Uni library, holding a placard declaring how most of the student body will be going to hell for pre-marital sex and other misdemeanors, but he doesn’t try and speak to anyone.

He just stares.

It depends. The ones you describe seem incredibly rude and I tell them so on the very rare occasions when I encounter one. Our culture is too shy and quiet to be that intrusive so around here they usually stand still and hold out brochures so it's easy to not take one when walking by, rent a booth at the market and put up a big sign about "Free coffee, cake and eternal life!" so it's easy to avoid going to their booth to talk to them or put up advertisements in newspapers or posters like normal people.

In fact here the word missionary means "An ordinary charity worker (usually working in a poor country far away) who receives funding from a church or religious charity." and I don't think we we even have a word for "A person who harasses random strangers with religious messages.".

I don't think a brochure or a quick talk changes peoples' believes or even makes them understand what you believe. I prefer to read not an ad but a lot of deep and informative text when curious about other religions.

The bible said there would be false prophets and such; they always fail to convince me that's not them.
Of course if you don't have time, or inclination, to debate with them; they're really just annoying. But I don't run into them much; in then ten or so years I've lived in this city I ran into jehova witnesses only once. Had a nice chat, they failed to convince me, I failed to convince them, we parted on friendly terms.

I haven't really encountered any, but my plan is to try and convert them to Pastafarianism, or possibly Discordianism.

It depends. The ones you describe seem incredibly rude and I tell them so on the very rare occasions when I encounter one. Our culture is too shy and quiet to be that intrusive so around here they usually stand still and hold out brochures so it's easy to not take one when walking by, rent a booth at the market and put up a big sign about "Free coffee, cake and eternal life!" so it's easy to avoid going to their booth to talk to them or put up advertisements in newspapers or posters like normal people.

In fact here the word missionary means "An ordinary charity worker (usually working in a poor country far away) who receives funding from a church or religious charity." and I don't think we we even have a word for "A person who harasses random strangers with religious messages.".

I don't think a brochure or a quick talk changes peoples' believes or even makes them understand what you believe. I prefer to read not an ad but a lot of deep and informative text when curious about other religions.

Well, seeing that I encountered the Mormons and Krishnas mostly in Germany, it's a bit odd really cause Germans tend not to be too eager to talk about religion at the best of times.
But to be honest, I've met the most rabid Christian missionaries here in Ireland...

In my opinion, missionaries range from extremely rude to actively genocidal. I tell them so whenever I encounter them.

I have a lot of friends who are missionaries so no, I don't hate them. They are all service oriented though, not the knocking on doors type. I have friends who are missionaries in Germany doing some sort of ministry with street kids where they feed them and help them get employment and places to stay and such. I have friends who are in South America, they do medical care for people who can't afford it, and friends in Cambodia who are digging wells and getting people clean water and providing health care for families and paying for children to go to school. I don't see how any of this is wrong, bad, immoral or annoying.

I have a lot of friends who are missionaries so no, I don't hate them. They are all service oriented though, not the knocking on doors type. I have friends who are missionaries in Germany doing some sort of ministry with street kids where they feed them and help them get employment and places to stay and such. I have friends who are in South America, they do medical care for people who can't afford it, and friends in Cambodia who are digging wells and getting people clean water and providing health care for families and paying for children to go to school. I don't see how any of this is wrong, bad, immoral or annoying.

It's not exactly missionary, though, either. Or do those street kids have to listen to compulsory religious lectures for the shelter they get?

What you're describing is simly social work, I've done it in the past, and I've got friends doing it now.

But to be honest, I've met the most rabid Christian missionaries here in Ireland...

Really? Wow. I haven't meet many at all - mostly just those crazy abortion/bible nuts preaching on Grafton/O'Connell Street in Dublin.

I've never had much problem with missionaries. But then I have that Vimes-like ability to listen and respond to people whilst thinking about something entirely different.

It's not exactly missionary, though, either. Or do those street kids have to listen to compulsory religious lectures for the shelter they get?

What you're describing is simly social work, I've done it in the past, and I've got friends doing it now.

my friends are paid through the missionary budget of their church, they are there to do mission work, they don't speak about religion unless asked and they stop when someone says they don't want to hear it, but their main reason there is to "show Christ through service" or something like that.

I don't know any of the door to door evangelizing annoying missionaries, only the ones who go help people.

Every mission trip I have ever been on, we were there to help people.

Really? Wow. I haven't meet many at all - mostly just those crazy abortion/bible nuts preaching on Grafton/O'Connell Street in Dublin.

Them, and ladies on busses starting conversations about god, and actually getting off with you if you're trying to run away... and a bunch coming to our house at a time with pamphlets and bibles under their arms (there was a church nearby, some sort of smaller sect, we suspected they came from there).
And here in Cork now we've had Jehova's witnesses, and old ladies coming to the house asking if we would want to put up a statue of some saint or other in our livingroom so the neighbours could come and pray to it, and getting fiercely upset when told that we were both Atheists.

my friends are paid through the missionary budget of their church, they are there to do mission work, they don't speak about religion unless asked and they stop when someone says they don't want to hear it, but their main reason there is to "show Christ through service" or something like that.

I don't know any of the door to door evangelizing annoying missionaries, only the ones who go help people.

Every mission trip I have ever been on, we were there to help people.


Sorry, helping people is still social work, no matter who finances it.

Sorry, helping people is still social work, no matter who finances it.

I forgot to mention earlier that they do set up Bible studies and such but it's not a "you must come" to get help thing, it's all voluntary. However the roots of mission is to send, not to convert.

I disapprove of missionaries for the simple reason that going to other people and telling them that they're wrong, and proof of such consists of tautologies, is extremely rude, no matter how nice you say it.

I voted that I love them. They are annoying, but the way I look at it if they want me to be open to conversion, they must be open to conversion as well. So I try and convert them back!


And they quickly go away because of that. Those that stay and try, are fun to frustrate.

Quite. Bloody Krishnas. And those random religious ranters up in town that occasionally blight the fountain on Parliament Street.

"BLAH BLAH YER ALL SINNERS!"

My first thoughts are usually something like "why aren't they in some kind of mental hospital?".

But there we go.

For all of who have had these experiences, I'm terribly sorry. I do agree with you in that those megaphone-wielding, hellfire-and-brimstone screaming evangelists are incredibly rude and ignorant. And I'm Christian myself.

But it should be as Smunkeeville says; the goal of missionary work and evangelism should be merely to let people know it's there, not to yell in their face. At my church, we're taught to first "spread the seeds," just as Jesus taught in one of his parables. This means simply letting people know that we Christians are, say, handing out free bottles of water with the briefest of information at the beach. We don't force the water on anyone; if people don't want water, we might say "Are you sure?" and when they answer "No," we just move on. And if somebody does take the water, no one is going to make them read the label. The hope that people will start wondering why we're out there. Naturally, we don't gain anything personally from it, and the church certainly loses money by buying all those bottles of water (I think we handed out 300 or more in two days of work, lasting about 5 hours total). The idea is that somebody, whether by thinking about our motives or reading what's on the label, will gain some interest in Christianity, and maybe will seek out somebody with answers, perhaps by calling the church with the phone number listed on the label. Only once somebody is willing to listen will we tell them more of our faith, as screaming in their face only pushes some one farther away. This method is less in-your-face, and lives up to the name "Christian" more so than others; "Christian" literally means "little Christ," and therefore Christians should try to be like Jesus, and I can't imagine Jesus standing on the shores of Galilee screaming "I'm the Son of God! Believe that or DIE!! REPENT OR PERISH!!". Nobody would believe him if he did. After all, the Bible says that Jesus only ever publicly admitted to being the Son of God twice.

So, on the behalf of those ignorant fools out there, I apologize to all of you.

I forgot to mention earlier that they do set up Bible studies and such but it's not a "you must come" to get help thing, it's all voluntary. However the roots of mission is to send, not to convert.

To be honest, I've only encountered the kind that hang out on the street. They're annoying, but rather amusing to talk to, if you have time to waste. I doubt that those kind of missionaries and the kind of missionaries you talk about are in any way similar. The kind of which you talk about don't make themselves overtly known and aren't attention whores in the same way, obviously, since they're more interested in doing good and helping than in getting people converted to religion X.

Think of the scientology missionaries... <.< ...Now there's class A nuisances.

I love them, when I have enough time.
I always smile at them, it unsettles them.

Then when I'm asked if I know the Bible (I seem to attract the christian type) I start quoting. That really unsettles them.

Then I tell them I'm agnostic.

There is some old dude who stands outside the Uni library, holding a placard declaring how most of the student body will be going to hell for pre-marital sex and other misdemeanors, but he doesn’t try and speak to anyone.

He just stares.

You're lucky. Ours only shows up in August, because it's the nicest time of year, but he doesn't just stare at us. He tells us we're all condemned to hell. My favorite thing to do to him is tell him that I'm a woman blessed with natural talent for math, science, and engineering. When he makes no reply, I ask him if that means I should just stay in the kitchen the rest of my life like he's telling me I should, or if I should go out in the real world and use my knowledge to better society. He just sputters after that. It really deflates what little argument he had. :-)

The street ones are kind of annoying, though I associate them just as much with people distributing political shit in the streets, and I find those people intolerable. I have found God on my own, thank you very much, I don't need help.

Even if some of those people I sense would be the ones to say "OMG evilCatholics."

I believe that if there are nice ones, its worth listening to them, though, even if you're not interested. Give them the benefit of the doubt. There are plenty of people out there who are kind about it and genuinely think they're saving you.

I don't mind missionaries if they recognize when someone just isn't interested in converting, and decide not to push it. i.e., those who can quickly take a hint and leave non-interested people alone.

I agree. I just explain that I am happy with my choice and thank them. Just as I would someone selling cookies, "thank you for asking but I already have my favorite cookies" :)

I've had Mormons cornering my in pedestrian zones when all I wanted to do was getting my shopping done and get home

There are Mormons in ireland?

*waits for Zilam to get here*

I seem to attract very, very scary eastern European Mormons I always tell them I'm in the Anglican church (lies) and that I will come to their special little temple but don't give any details myself

when the bastard Jehovah witnesses come to my door my mom usually deals with them (which worries me as I may have some witness in me) but its always fun to mock the silly

and here comes the funnies (http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZT2cIpzMDY4&feature=related)

but I have always wondered if this is true :confused: (http://youtube.com/watch?v=BjN9PeKmgiQ)

He just sputters after that. It really deflates what little argument he had. :-)

he could just point out that those skills have obvious household applications :p

but I have always wondered if this is true :confused: (http://youtube.com/watch?v=BjN9PeKmgiQ)


Wow, Mormonism is pretty cool! It's like one big psychedelic trip!

Living in a vicarage you don't tend to get many missionaries. Never met one in town, but my friend did get talked to at one point.

Missionary: "You boy! Are you gay?"

Friend: "No."

Missionary: "Good! Gays are going to hell! They are an abomination!"

Friend: "If people aren't supposed to be gay, why did God put a G-spot in mens asses?"

Apparently the missionary just packed up. Don't know if I beleive him, but I dearly hope he did say that.

Wow, Mormonism is pretty cool! It's like one big psychedelic trip!

endless celestial sex with many wives does have an appeal ;)

Not another thread of Cabra's describing her missionary position :rolleyes:

Not another thread of Cabra's describing her missionary position :rolleyes:

/thread

My only experience with missionaries:

Jehovah's Witness: Hi. We're Jehovah's Witnesses. Are you interested in some of these pamphlets?
Me: Not really.
Jehovah's Witness: Do you know anyone who would be?
Me: Probably not.
Jehovah's Witness: kthxbai

So I can't really say I hate them, as such.

I seem to attract very, very scary eastern European Mormons I always tell them I'm in the Anglican church (lies) and that I will come to their special little temple but don't give any details myself

when the bastard Jehovah witnesses come to my door my mom usually deals with them (which worries me as I may have some witness in me) but its always fun to mock the silly

and here comes the funnies (http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZT2cIpzMDY4&feature=related)

but I have always wondered if this is true :confused: (http://youtube.com/watch?v=BjN9PeKmgiQ)



he could just point out that those skills have obvious household applications :p

this one (http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=4imXDXxnWUQ) is better

I loves to get into fights with them.:p

this one (http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=4imXDXxnWUQ) is better

and this is better quality (http://www.milkandcookies.com/link/59507/detail/)

I loves to get into fights with them.:p

"resurrect this!" *blows evil villain missionary to hell with sawn off shotgun*

this is exactly what happens I imagine :)

Let me tell you about my religion...

Only once can I remember missionaries showing up at my door - and my mom dealt with them. Politely.

I recall seing what had to be the dumbest Christian missionary in the world. He was holding a sign that said "If you don't believe in Jesus, you're going to Hell" on the side of the street. Not just any street. The Strip. In Las Vegas.

There are people advertising for strippers and hookers, and he's telling them that if they don't believe in Jesus, they're going to Hell? By his standards, 99% of these people are heading to Hell anyway. It's called Sin City for a reason. It's more likely to become the Antichrist's capital.

He didn't try to stop me as I walked by. If he had, I'm not sure what I would have done. I wouldn't have done anything sarcastic - I wasn't in a good mood at the time. See, Las Vegas is my least favorite city.

I don't mind missionaries (Even if they're not protestant missionaries) I just mind when they:
A. Come at annoying hours (1:00 am, dinnertime, times when no human should be awake)
B. Are excessivly annoying or argumentative(Happens a lot unfortunatly)
C. They decide that coming into your house and making themselves at home is acceptable (Happened to me!!!... once...)
Also, bad thoughts entered my head when I saw the title :D

There are Mormons in ireland?

*waits for Zilam to get here*

That was in Germany. I've seen them in Ireland, but thankfully they do stand out almost more than the Krishnas, so I took some pains to give them a wide (really wide - think walking up two blocks in sidestreets) berth.

Not another thread of Cabra's describing her missionary position :rolleyes:

I object to that! I would never make a thread about a boring position like that :p

i let you know if i ever see one again

I classify them into three types: The genuinely useful one's, such as the folks who go to Bangladesh and put in wells and hand out free food, or go to Kenya and teach elementary school, and do generally inoffensive and helpful things.

Then there's the kind who just go about prattling on about how wonderful 'Jeebuth' has been to them, and how if I embrace 'Jeebuth' all of my sins will go away, and generally don't serve much of a purpose besides wasting their own time.

Then, there's a third sort: The ones who, unsolicited, tell me I'm going to hell because of sodomy. A fact that is uniquely peculiar, from my point of view, because that is an act in which I have never partaken.

I would never object to someone who tried, without force, to convert me. In fact, I would take it as a sign of their decency, if they sincerely believe, as most of them do, that accepting their religion is vitally important to my well-being.

I do, however, believe that reciprocity is fair. If they try to convert me to Christianity, I will try to convert them to atheism.

I would never object to someone who tried, without force, to convert me.

Define "force". Is "we will give you the medical attention/supplies/whatever you desperately need IF you participate in our praising of the Lord" force or a fair request for payment for services provided ?

my friends are paid through the missionary budget of their church, they are there to do mission work, they don't speak about religion unless asked and they stop when someone says they don't want to hear it, but their main reason there is to "show Christ through service" or something like that.

I don't know any of the door to door evangelizing annoying missionaries, only the ones who go help people.

Every mission trip I have ever been on, we were there to help people.

Your church is unusual in my experience. All of the missionaries I've encountered in the states won't do anything to help you without at LEAST sneaking a tract into the equation somewhere, if not an outright sermon.

Do they annoy you, too?<SNIP>I don't mind anybody being religious, I don't mind them celebrating their religion as they see fit (within legal boundaries), and I certainly don't mind them talking about their religion to people who want to hear it. But get your bloody mind around the fact that most people HAVE heard it all before and JUST AREN'T INTERESTED!!! So stop bothering them! And that includes me!!!

I voted don't care, but really it depends upon just how pushy the particular ones who show up on my doorstep are.

Them, and ladies on busses starting conversations about god, and actually getting off with you if you're trying to run away...

ABOUT God? When I was using the bus system in Denver I was more worried about the people who would start conversations WITH God (Or King James, or Elvis, or whatever hallucination was sitting next to them).

For all of who have had these experiences, I'm terribly sorry. I do agree with you in that those megaphone-wielding, hellfire-and-brimstone screaming evangelists are incredibly rude and ignorant. And I'm Christian myself.

But it should be as Smunkeeville says; the goal of missionary work and evangelism should be merely to let people know it's there, not to yell in their face. At my church, we're taught to first "spread the seeds," just as Jesus taught in one of his parables. This means simply letting people know that we Christians are, say, handing out free bottles of water with the briefest of information at the beach. We don't force the water on anyone; if people don't want water, we might say "Are you sure?" and when they answer "No," we just move on. And if somebody does take the water, no one is going to make them read the label.

Why should it have a label that does more than announce it's contents? You want to do good things because your Christian and your god says so? Great! Leave the converting people out of it.

I do, however, believe that reciprocity is fair. If they try to convert me to Christianity, I will try to convert them to atheism.

My thoughts exactly. Except I'm not atheist. But still, the sentiment is there. If I'm actually in the mood to discuss religion with religious people, including missionaries, who want to convert me to their view, they have to be willing to give my view a chance.

I have since gained enormus respect for the Kanter soon-to-be Rabbi at the local Synagogue and the Sheikh of the local Mosque because they both, although quite deeply into their relgiions, and fairly conservative, were more then willing to approach me in this way. Despite the stark contrast in religious beliefs.

I have yet to find a christian who didn't err on the side of atheisim already, do this.

You're lucky. Ours only shows up in August, because it's the nicest time of year, but he doesn't just stare at us. He tells us we're all condemned to hell. My favorite thing to do to him is tell him that I'm a woman blessed with natural talent for math, science, and engineering. When he makes no reply, I ask him if that means I should just stay in the kitchen the rest of my life like he's telling me I should, or if I should go out in the real world and use my knowledge to better society. He just sputters after that. It really deflates what little argument he had. :-)

Ours show up randome times of year, usually September-November, and they set up a table in the main foyer with lots of lots of bibles on it, and a sign reading "Bibles in many languages". Now, being a Linguistics student and an ardent jerk, as well as not very freindly with christianity, this is just too good to be true. So every time I see them I ask if they have a "Sumerian translation" of the Bible. First time I asked they actually looked and tried to pass off Korean as it to me. And since then I ask and they still don't have it. I even told the guy, "You get a Sumerian translation to the bible, I will seriously consider converting". Apparently they don't want converts that badly though, as they never do.

I prefer Girl on top myself, less work and such.

I prefer Girl on top myself, less work and such.

Indeed.

All I've met so far were Jehova's Witnesses, and these are so easy to get rid of... Just let them give you their Watch Tower/little pamphlet, thank them, walk away. Wait till you're round the corner and throw it into the next dustbin.

I wonder what effect talking to them in a made-up demonic language would have.

I don't care as long as they have the right motives. A slew of religions try to convert people to fill a quota or just to gain power over more people. I mind that. But many missionaries just don't want to see me go to hell, which is admirable, even if they're decieved.

I don't care as long as they have the right motives. A slew of religions try to convert people to fill a quota or just to gain power over more people. I mind that. But many missionaries just don't want to see me go to hell, which is admirable, even if they're decieved.

*tries to convert Stanasta so that he'll go to hell*

I wonder what effect talking to them in a made-up demonic language would have.

Might be difficult to make it sound demonic; maybe with a Klingon sound-alike?

Might be difficult to make it sound demonic; maybe with a Klingon sound-alike?

Maybe. Adding a bit of deliberate scratchiness to one's voice might help too.

I wonder what effect talking to them in a made-up demonic language would have.

Done it, works too. If you can pull it off.

Other things that work are:
- Wearing a ketchup stained robe and inviting them in while you were "just finishing up your ritual".
- "Hey, I was about to make some lunch, wanna come in? Mmmm, you look tasty."
- Overt sexual passes, especially if one of them is an attractive member of the opposite sex.
- Like above, only usually 10x better if it's a member of the same sex.
- A "Shotgun". They solve everything.

I prefer Girl on top myself, less work and such.

Also, I heard you can't get the girl preggers that way, gravity and all that jazz.






:p

Done it, works too. If you can pull it off.

Other things that work are:
- Wearing a ketchup stained robe and inviting them in while you were "just finishing up your ritual".
- "Hey, I was about to make some lunch, wanna come in? Mmmm, you look tasty."
- Overt sexual passes, especially if one of them is an attractive member of the opposite sex.
- Like above, only usually 10x better if it's a member of the same sex.
- A "Shotgun". They solve everything.


I was tempted to do that once. It was a Mormon girl handing out flyers for some Easter celebration at like 8 AM on a Saturday, but I was tired and she basically just shoved the flyer in my hand and left...

Judaism doesn't seek converts. They turn you away unless you REALLY are committed. :)

On one hand, I believe someone who worries about annoying people because of his beliefs can't have that strong beliefs. Anything that is worth believing should be mildly irritating at times.

On the other hand, they are really annoying. I picked, "I don't really care" because it seemed like a good compromise.

but I have always wondered if this is true :confused: (http://youtube.com/watch?v=BjN9PeKmgiQ)



:p

No it is not

Also I would like to note the mistakes in the South Park thing. 1st 11ish different people say that they saw the plates.2nd the lost pages were passed around until they found their way into the hands of emeries of JS who were already plotting to change it. I won't even go into the whole time line thing here. Mock my faith if you must but at least mock it right.

Is "we will give you the medical attention/supplies/whatever you desperately need IF you participate in our praising of the Lord" force

Yes.

Making anything external contingent on conversion counts for the purposes of my statement.

Yes.

Making anything external contingent on conversion counts for the purposes of my statement.

Any supposed Christian who would do that either wouldn't be a Christian, or would be terribly misguilded. We have an obligation to help everyone we can.

but I have always wondered if this is true :confused: (http://youtube.com/watch?v=BjN9PeKmgiQ)



No it is not

Also I would like to point out the mistakes in the south park thing. 1st 11ish people saw the plates.2nd The book of Lehi was passed around many many different people and was most likely taken by emeries of JS who planned on changing it. I won't go into the full details of the other things I would like to say about it.

Mock my faith if you must but at least mock it right

Any supposed Christian who would do that either wouldn't be a Christian, or would be terribly misguilded.

Hi, have we met? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman)

We have an obligation to help everyone we can.

Then you must obviously not be a christian. After all, you are using online capabilties, which means you're obviously stealing it (hardly christian of you) or you're paying for it. And if you're paying for it, then that's money you're giving up to your cable internet provider that you could be using to feed some homeless guy.

In fact if you define christianity as having an obligation to help everyone you can and state that anyone who does not do so is not a "real christian" then I have never met a "real christian" in my life, and neither have you. I'm also quite certain no such thing exists.

Missionaries are nothing but reactionary propagandists.

Why should it have a label that does more than announce it's contents? You want to do good things because your Christian and your god says so? Great! Leave the converting people out of it.

when I was standing out in the cold at 3am waiting for a store to open the day after Thanksgiving(US) a local church youth group came out and gave out coffee for free, they handed me a business card with it that said the name of the church and "if you ever need any sort of help, call us", they weren't shitting either, a few months later I happened upon someone who needed major help fixing their car and paying rent or they would literally be out on the street, I wasn't able to help much (got the car running and bought groceries) but when I called that church they paid the rent, even the back rent and 3 months of utilities and then hired the mom of the family who had been searching for a job, all without asking anything in return. They haven't tried to convert her at all, they just wanted to help out.

I go for the anti-convert. Generally, the ones who come to your home have an experienced hard core god botherer, and an acolyte.

Direct all your questions to the acolyte. Try to shake their faith. Bring up all the contradictions in their faith. Ask them if they've killed anyone for working on the Sabbath lately?

Religion in inherently illogical. That's why it's called faith. Try to put their logic on overdrive and see if you can get them to become a disbeliever.

Missionaries annoy me, they interrupt me on the weekends. The Jehova's Witnesses are particularly persistant.


I do appreciate their "position" on some things though.

I go for the anti-convert. Generally, the ones who come to your home have an experienced hard core god botherer, and an acolyte.

Direct all your questions to the acolyte. Try to shake their faith. Bring up all the contradictions in their faith. Ask them if they've killed anyone for working on the Sabbath lately?

Religion in inherently illogical. That's why it's called faith. Try to put their logic on overdrive and see if you can get them to become a disbeliever.

Next time one of the Christian persuasion should decide to bother me, I thought I'd go with the below :

http://russellsteapot.com/images/comics/2007/Image072.jpg

I'm not really bothered by them, but if they do decide to try and convert me they must first convince me potatoes don't rule the world, that it's impossible to live and die at the same time (dieing of laughter), that God is somehow good (tall order here), that i will benefit somehow.

Well Cabra... I don't consider those annoying torublemakers that pound on your door when you are trying to sleep after getting home from working wierd shifts and make your dogs go ballistic only to try and shove a holy text of some sort down your throat missionaries.

My girlfreind is a missionary, she has spent several years of her life going to countries such as Nigeria where she teaches people to read and write (as well about christianity but nobody is perfect). She also works in soup kitchens that feed starving families. Thats what I consider a missionary, the others are what I call an ignoramous.

Well Cabra... I don't consider those annoying torublemakers that pound on your door when you are trying to sleep after getting home from working wierd shifts and make your dogs go ballistic only to try and shove a holy text of some sort down your throat missionaries.

My girlfreind is a missionary, she has spent several years of her life going to countries such as Nigeria where she teaches people to read and write (as well about christianity but nobody is perfect). She also works in soup kitchens that feed starving families. Thats what I consider a missionary, the others are what I call an ignoramous.

Yeah I agree with that. I've been several times to the philippines, to help build an orphanage. And I got to run some childrens groups. I work in a women's shelter at the moment for people with domestic violence, drug/alcohol, homelessness etc. And about to start a job helping people with disabilities. And later, when I have gathered sufficient funds, will be going to india to help out. Even so, I'd only classify a missionary as someone who goes on mission for a few years at a time. I've only ever done short term.
The door knockers are very annoying. Even when I tell them I'm a christian they keep pestering. But I think the two are in seperate categories.

Well Cabra... I don't consider those annoying torublemakers that pound on your door when you are trying to sleep after getting home from working wierd shifts and make your dogs go ballistic only to try and shove a holy text of some sort down your throat missionaries.

My girlfreind is a missionary, she has spent several years of her life going to countries such as Nigeria where she teaches people to read and write (as well about christianity but nobody is perfect). She also works in soup kitchens that feed starving families. Thats what I consider a missionary, the others are what I call an ignoramous.

I replied to that to Smunkee already. Those people are doing social work, there are both religious and non-religious people doing that. I've been working with youth groups for a long time, my aunt went to Kenia as a nurse with Doctors without frontiers.
It's social work.
Per definition, religious mission is about conversion, and those guys hanging on my doorbell are most certainly after that.

Chrisitans of who knows what sect yelling at passers-by with megaphones and actively trying to prevent me from entering Ann Summers to buy some toys.[/rant]

Ohhhhh noo.

Ohhhhhhhhh noooooo.


That actually physically makes me groan with despair.


I'm a Christian and proud of it but I can't stand the sort of people who do that, ohhhh man.

Seriously, who are they going to convert by telling people that they are going to hell?!?!? AAHHH!

And their taking a moral issue with Ann Summers. AAAHHHHH!

My sister (also a Christian) had such a go at some Christians in a shopping centre at her uni who were telling people they were going to hell with megaphones.

Well Cabra... I don't consider those annoying torublemakers that pound on your door when you are trying to sleep after getting home from working wierd shifts and make your dogs go ballistic only to try and shove a holy text of some sort down your throat missionaries.

My girlfreind is a missionary, she has spent several years of her life going to countries such as Nigeria where she teaches people to read and write (as well about christianity but nobody is perfect). She also works in soup kitchens that feed starving families. Thats what I consider a missionary, the others are what I call an ignoramous.

Agreed.

I replied to that to Smunkee already. Those people are doing social work, there are both religious and non-religious people doing that. I've been working with youth groups for a long time, my aunt went to Kenia as a nurse with Doctors without frontiers.
It's social work.
Per definition, religious mission is about conversion, and those guys hanging on my doorbell are most certainly after that.

Yeah, but the term 'Missionary' is generall taken to mean going to a disadvantaged country to teach about Jesus, or whoever, and in most cases, as in the above post, to give aid.

I really don't use the term to refer to the converters in shopping centre or on the doorstep, but perhaps that's just me.

Yeah, but the term 'Missionary' is generall taken to mean going to a disadvantaged country to teach about Jesus, or whoever, and in most cases, as in the above post, to give aid.

I really don't use the term to refer to the converters in shopping centre or on the doorstep, but perhaps that's just me.



mis·sion·ar·y (msh-nr)
n. pl. mis·sion·ar·ies
1. One who is sent on a mission, especially one sent to do religious work in a territory or foreign country.
2. One who attempts to persuade or convert others to a particular program, doctrine, or set of principles; a propagandist.

Dictionary link (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/missionary)

Missionaries, in my understanding as well as apparently the understanding of most other posters here as well as the dicitionary quoted, mean someone who sets out to convert people to their religious idea.
Going to a poorer country to help others is social work, not missionary work.

Dictionary link (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/missionary)

Missionaries, in my understanding as well as apparently the understanding of most other posters here as well as the dicitionary quoted, mean someone who sets out to convert people to their religious idea.
Going to a poorer country to help others is social work, not missionary work.

Well, actually, it was clear what you meant by context. I wouldn't really use the term missionary with Jehova's witnesses and such. Not in German anyway,

Depends on which "faith" they represent. The mormon boys are always fun.

i don't hate anyone, but i am annoyed by the hypocracy of dishonesty pretending to promote morality.

=^^=
.../\...

The first time that a missionary comes to your door, politely explain to him or her that you aren't interested. After all, the missionary is nothing more than a salesperson.

However, if the missionary should return, then you should answer the door naked. Assuming that you're not visible from the street, you're not breaking the law, as you have the right to be naked in your own home (exception: the state of Arkansas).

Telling the missionary that you're a Satanist, or an atheist, or a follower of metaphysicotheologicocosmolonogoloy just won't cut it. All of that falls under the category of, "I have my own beliefs," a matter which the missionary has been well trained to handle.

Answering the door naked tells the missionary that you are utterly beyond salvation. They'll go away. You won't hear from them again. Trust me on this one.

A bedtime story from me.

Once when I was living out in the country with my father a pair of missionaries, I believe either mormons or jahova's wittnesses, it's been a long time, came to my door at about 10:00 am. I had the day off from school and my dad was at work. I was I think 12 at the time. Anyway, they asked to speak to "us" about their stuff, I told them, clearly (this is important) that my father would be back at 5:00pm, to come back then. They said they would and bid me a good day, leaving on their way. About an hour later I was watching TV and I heard a knock on the door, there they were, back. They again introduced themselves and asked to talk to "us" about their work, same two people. I told them, clearly again, that my father was at work and would not be back untill 5, they said they'd come back then and bid me a good day, and left. Half an hour later they returned, repeat situation. This happened roughly every 30-45 minutes untill about 3:00pm, after they had visited about eight times, each time getting the same damned thing from me, come back at 5. Bu this point I was just pissed, they were getting annoying. So when I was upstairs in my bedroom and heard the door knocked on I looked down the stairs (Lead right to the front door) to see who it was, low and behold it was them. I grabbed my craptaculat BB gun my dad bought me for my birthday, looked like a pump action shotgun but had barely enough power to make a plastic BB go 10 feet. I ran down the stairs, waving it about, pumped the slide, and opend the door yelling at them to "Go the f*** away and leave me alone you sick f***s!", as they ran down our driveway and into the street.

Neither me, nor my father, ever had missionaries come to our door at that house again. I know those two were not the representation of most missionaries, but seriously, they were pretty stupid.

Do they annoy you, too? *snip*
[/rant]

What annoys me are Christian missionaries who travel to third world countries and take Bibles and don't take neccesities, then con them into a religion they aren't interested in. I have a friend who recently went to Samoa to do this.

What also annoys me are middle aged Christian missionaries who travel to Mexico and take peanut butter sandwhiches and use all of the town's water. Again, I know someone who just did this.

What also annoys me are middle aged Christian missionaries who travel to Mexico and take peanut butter sandwhiches and use all of the town's water. Again, I know someone who just did this.

Please continue with this story, I'm curious about this guy...

Do they annoy you, too?
I honestly don't mind religious folks, half my family is still sort of religious and I've got a good few friends who are as well. I've got no problem at all with them. I don't mind debate about religious topics, either, I rather enjoy that actually (lots to do with my fascination for the human mind, development of emotions, instinct behaviour, etc)

But what really gets me and occasionally utterly enrages me are people who decide to try and actively convert others. I honestly hate them. I find their motives questionable at best, and their actions highly anti-social and a general nuisance.
And I don't make any distinction between Christians of various denominations, Muslims, Krishnas or any other flavour of religion for that matter! They are ALL annoying as fuck.
I've had Jehova's Witnesses hanging on my doorbell at weird hours, I've had Mormons cornering my in pedestrian zones when all I wanted to do was getting my shopping done and get home, I've had Krishnas jumping on me at the exit of department stores trying to "give" me free books but expecting donations for them, I've had Muslims littering my hall with pamphlets shoved through my mailbox, and Chrisitans of who knows what sect yelling at passers-by with megaphones and actively trying to prevent me from entering Ann Summers to buy some toys.

I've had it, I've really had it. It's impolite to the extreme, it's annoying, it's unnecessary. I do support the right to freedom of speech and everything that comes with it, but then I also support simple politeness to your fellow-human beings.
I don't mind anybody being religious, I don't mind them celebrating their religion as they see fit (within legal boundaries), and I certainly don't mind them talking about their religion to people who want to hear it. But get your bloody mind around the fact that most people HAVE heard it all before and JUST AREN'T INTERESTED!!! So stop bothering them! And that includes me!!!

[/rant]

I'm a big fan of missionaries of every ilk.

It's the outreach of those who care... think of your local homeless shelter... missionaries are like that to the unconverted, really. Why are you so against someone taking enough personal interest in you to really try and secure for you a beautiful relationship with their deity? Why are you so against people who care about your eternity?

On a related note do you hate every person who has ever advertised, they jump at us from our computers, tvs, billboards, people wearing signs on the sidewalk, people going door-to-door? If you don't also hate them, then you are being inconsistent.

I'm a big fan of missionaries of every ilk.

It's the outreach of those who care... think of your local homeless shelter... missionaries are like that to the unconverted, really. Why are you so against someone taking enough personal interest in you to really try and secure for you a beautiful relationship with their deity? Why are you so against people who care about your eternity?

On a related note do you hate every person who has ever advertised, they jump at us from our computers, tvs, billboards, people wearing signs on the sidewalk, people going door-to-door? If you don't also hate them, then you are being inconsistent.

Are you suggesting that most people don't hate door-to-door salesmen? Anyway, advertising is different as a) it doesn't accost you personally and b) pays for things which you use.

Are you suggesting that most people don't hate door-to-door salesmen? Anyway, advertising is different as a) it doesn't accost you personally and b) pays for things which you use.

Different maybe, but no less annoying or intrusive for it.

I resent the fact that now, when I go to the movies, I have to pay $10 for the ticket and STILL have to sit through what amounts to television commercials for things like Coca-Cola before the previews even start. And I'm not talking about the still slides they run while people are filling the theater. I mean moving commericals complete with sound, sometimes the exact same ones I saw on TV.

Advertisers are increasingly behaving as if they had some kind of right to make you hear their commercial, and more and more it's difficult to evade it. From DVD tracks that you can't skip over advertising movies or TV programming to popups designed to defeat popup blockers on your web browsing.

At least missionaries take 'no' for an answer (except for those who are, as stated before in this thread, breaking their own rules and are thankfully not the norm.)

Different maybe, but no less annoying or intrusive for it.

I resent the fact that now, when I go to the movies, I have to pay $10 for the ticket and STILL have to sit through what amounts to television commercials for things like Coca-Cola before the previews even start. And I'm not talking about the still slides they run while people are filling the theater. I mean moving commericals complete with sound, sometimes the exact same ones I saw on TV.

Advertisers are increasingly behaving as if they had some kind of right to make you hear their commercial, and more and more it's difficult to evade it. From DVD tracks that you can't skip over advertising movies or TV programming to popups designed to defeat popup blockers on your web browsing.

At least missionaries take 'no' for an answer (except for those who are, as stated before in this thread, breaking their own rules and are thankfully not the norm.)

Maybe I don't engage with enough media, but in Australia at least unskippable DVD tracks for example are not the norm either. Still, though, it's not the same thing as missionaries - thus someone who doesn't have a problem with ads but dislikes missionaries is not necessarily inconsistent, as was claimed.

[/threadjack]

My grandmother used to be a Christian missionary in Ecuador, but she hated the things the missionaries were doing there, forcing the people to adopt Christianity, and if they wouldn't adopt it, they would get no supplies.
So she quit her job, and went to live in the rain forest with some natives, where she met my granddad.

I don't beleive in missionaries.

I believe in randomly roving targets of eschatological opportunity, there for my amusement.

Eventually, you will see Jehovah's witnesses are mere warm-ups.

Scientologists! There we go.

Unfortunately, whales and bible-thumpers are the only things you can't shoot in Oklahoma.

Maybe I don't engage with enough media, but in Australia at least unskippable DVD tracks for example are not the norm either. Still, though, it's not the same thing as missionaries - thus someone who doesn't have a problem with ads but dislikes missionaries is not necessarily inconsistent, as was claimed.

[/threadjack]

Yah I see where you're coming from. I was just throwing it out there.

Actually, I have a lot of respect for missionaries in general. I mean, we're talking about people who give up all of the comnforts of home to go out into the world to offer their message to people who often react with hostility. Even if it's not to a 3rd World country, just the fact of being away from home is a huge challenge.

I have a close friend who is on a mission in Russia right now. He's put his own life on hold (voluntarily, of course) to go out there. He spoke no Russian before this, so he had to learn it just for the mission.

Sometimes the Jehovah's Witnesses come knocking and while I'm not a JW myself, I still respect them and for the same reason. Honestly, if I don't want to talk to them I can ignore the knocking at the door or I can just let them know I don't want to be visited again and that's all it takes. Mistakes happen, sometimes you say go away and they come back after awhile, but that's not the way the policies are set up so there's no need to be hostile to the individuals who come knocking.

The thing to keep in mind is that from the point of view of the missionary, they have someting that's really cool and awesome and they want to share it with as many as will listen. No offense is meant and they certainly don't do it out of arrogance or judgmentalism.

Cut 'em a little slack.

My grandmother used to be a Christian missionary in Ecuador, but she hated the things the missionaries were doing there, forcing the people to adopt Christianity, and if they wouldn't adopt it, they would get no supplies.
So she quit her job, and went to live in the rain forest with some natives, where she met my granddad.

This is a perfect example of why missionaries tend to get bad reputations sometimes. This kind of stuff is wrong and whoever uses extortion to gain converts os NOT doing God's work.

I'm a big fan of missionaries of every ilk.

It's the outreach of those who care... think of your local homeless shelter... missionaries are like that to the unconverted, really. Why are you so against someone taking enough personal interest in you to really try and secure for you a beautiful relationship with their deity? Why are you so against people who care about your eternity?

On a related note do you hate every person who has ever advertised, they jump at us from our computers, tvs, billboards, people wearing signs on the sidewalk, people going door-to-door? If you don't also hate them, then you are being inconsistent.

Well, apparently they don't care enough about others to respect them enough to leave them in peace. Instead, they insist on interfering with them, annoying them, and actively threaten them.

People can care about my eternity all they want, I don't. So if they want to care, they can just wander off and care about it wherever they want, there's no need nor point in talking to me about it disrupting day and stealing my time.

I've never had an advertiser on my doorstep, and I certainly would be very annoyed if one ever actually rang my doorbell. I've got no problems with advertisement on TV, billboards or radio for the simple reason that I can ignore it/turn it off. A missionary following me from the bus to my fucking doorstep all the while talking at me about something I'm simply not interested in can't just be turned off, much as I wished I could do that.

Different maybe, but no less annoying or intrusive for it.

I resent the fact that now, when I go to the movies, I have to pay $10 for the ticket and STILL have to sit through what amounts to television commercials for things like Coca-Cola before the previews even start. And I'm not talking about the still slides they run while people are filling the theater. I mean moving commericals complete with sound, sometimes the exact same ones I saw on TV.

Advertisers are increasingly behaving as if they had some kind of right to make you hear their commercial, and more and more it's difficult to evade it. From DVD tracks that you can't skip over advertising movies or TV programming to popups designed to defeat popup blockers on your web browsing.

At least missionaries take 'no' for an answer (except for those who are, as stated before in this thread, breaking their own rules and are thankfully not the norm.)

That's why cinemas give you the time when the commercial starts, and the time when the film starts.

And I believe it's illegal to have ads on DVDs that can't be skipped over.

I've never met a missionary that went away after a simple "I'm atheist, please go away". They usually take that as an invitation in my experience.

Yah I see where you're coming from. I was just throwing it out there.

Actually, I have a lot of respect for missionaries in general. I mean, we're talking about people who give up all of the comnforts of home to go out into the world to offer their message to people who often react with hostility. Even if it's not to a 3rd World country, just the fact of being away from home is a huge challenge.

I have a close friend who is on a mission in Russia right now. He's put his own life on hold (voluntarily, of course) to go out there. He spoke no Russian before this, so he had to learn it just for the mission.

Sometimes the Jehovah's Witnesses come knocking and while I'm not a JW myself, I still respect them and for the same reason. Honestly, if I don't want to talk to them I can ignore the knocking at the door or I can just let them know I don't want to be visited again and that's all it takes. Mistakes happen, sometimes you say go away and they come back after awhile, but that's not the way the policies are set up so there's no need to be hostile to the individuals who come knocking.

The thing to keep in mind is that from the point of view of the missionary, they have someting that's really cool and awesome and they want to share it with as many as will listen. No offense is meant and they certainly don't do it out of arrogance or judgmentalism.

Cut 'em a little slack.


Cut them some slack for deciding to go out there and annoy folks who would be far happier if those folks had just stayed home and left them alone???

:confused:

Why?
Do you cut a child molestor some slack cause he waited for the kid in the freezing rain?
It's their decision to disrupt people's days and to make a nuisance of themselves. Why should I cut them slack for them trying to stop me from shopping at Ann Summers? Why should I cut them some slack for them annoying strangers on the bus?
I wouldn't cut anybody else any slack for behaving unacceptably like that, so why would I make an exception for them?

Cut them some slack for deciding to go out there and annoy folks who would be far happier if those folks had just stayed home and left them alone???

:confused:

Why?
Do you cut a child molestor some slack cause he waited for the kid in the freezing rain?
It's their decision to disrupt people's days and to make a nuisance of themselves. Why should I cut them slack for them trying to stop me from shopping at Ann Summers? Why should I cut them some slack for them annoying strangers on the bus?
I wouldn't cut anybody else any slack for behaving unacceptably like that, so why would I make an exception for them?

It depends on the type of missionary. But I can still hold some respect for those who totally give up any enjoyment and comfort of their own, for the sake of others well being (this does not include those who do trivial tasks and pester people into joining their religion like JW's), even if realistically they may not be improving it, it does at least show them to be completely altruistic rather than egoistic. Examples like the molester are different, because they aren't sacrificing themselves for others, but sacrificing temporarily their comfort only for later self interests and pleasure, not the same.

That's why cinemas give you the time when the commercial starts, and the time when the film starts.

And I believe it's illegal to have ads on DVDs that can't be skipped over.

I've never met a missionary that went away after a simple "I'm atheist, please go away". They usually take that as an invitation in my experience.

It may be that way where you live, but here the time given for the movie starting is the point at which the lights go down and the commercials begin... and I have several DVDs that have unskippable ads. (Maybe it's a zone thing.)


Cut them some slack for deciding to go out there and annoy folks who would be far happier if those folks had just stayed home and left them alone???

:confused:

Why?
Do you cut a child molestor some slack cause he waited for the kid in the freezing rain?
It's their decision to disrupt people's days and to make a nuisance of themselves. Why should I cut them slack for them trying to stop me from shopping at Ann Summers? Why should I cut them some slack for them annoying strangers on the bus?
I wouldn't cut anybody else any slack for behaving unacceptably like that, so why would I make an exception for them?

The thing is, I don't support harassment. I don't support people following you around or not taking 'no' for an answer. If that's what you resent, then I'm right there with you. Those folks are insinuating themselves where they're not supposed to be.

I see a difference between those and the ones that simply knock on your door. In my church (Mormon) there's a policy where if someone says they don't want to be visited by Missionaries, then that address goes on a list of 'do not contact' addresses for some period of years. I assume the Jehovah's Witnesses say the same but I don't know for sure. The reasons for this are legal. Once you've been warned off of someone's property, to return would be tresspassing, which is a crime.

Thise guys deserve a little understanding, even if you don't believe what they do.

best thing i did was about a week ago in the local highstreet. a jehovahs witness came up to me as i was walking out of a shop and started rambling on about how my life would be better if i attended one of their meetings or something like that. but that would displease satan i replied to this woman, who gave me shocked look then told me if i would like to burn in hell for eternity. to this i immediately said too bloody right i would, its a hell of a lot warmer and i can work on my tan.

ive always wanted to do that, so happy i got the chance

It may be that way where you live, but here the time given for the movie starting is the point at which the lights go down and the commercials begin... and I have several DVDs that have unskippable ads. (Maybe it's a zone thing.)

Well, in that case, just show up 15 minutes after the official start time. I think that 15 mins is the time assigned to commercials, more or less worldwide (well, any country I've ever been to, anyway).



The thing is, I don't support harassment. I don't support people following you around or not taking 'no' for an answer. If that's what you resent, then I'm right there with you. Those folks are insinuating themselves where they're not supposed to be.

I see a difference between those and the ones that simply knock on your door. In my church (Mormon) there's a policy where if someone says they don't want to be visited by Missionaries, then that address goes on a list of 'do not contact' addresses for some period of years. I assume the Jehovah's Witnesses say the same but I don't know for sure. The reasons for this are legal. Once you've been warned off of someone's property, to return would be tresspassing, which is a crime.

Thise guys deserve a little understanding, even if you don't believe what they do.

Well, those Mormons that showed up at the place of a friend of mine didn't just go away. They asked if we could give them other addresses of people who might be interested, and refused to leave before we gave them any.
And the ones in pedestrian zones were even more insistent, to the point of yelling after me.

Well, in that case, just show up 15 minutes after the official start time. I think that 15 mins is the time assigned to commercials, more or less worldwide (well, any country I've ever been to, anyway).


Problem is if I do that, then I get stuck having to sit way down front! :p


Well, those Mormons that showed up at the place of a friend of mine didn't just go away. They asked if we could give them other addresses of people who might be interested, and refused to leave before we gave them any.
And the ones in pedestrian zones were even more insistent, to the point of yelling after me.

Well if that's the case, they did wrong and it would be in violation of Church policy. I wouldn't excuse that.

That's why cinemas give you the time when the commercial starts, and the time when the film starts.

And I believe it's illegal to have ads on DVDs that can't be skipped over.

I've never met a missionary that went away after a simple "I'm atheist, please go away". They usually take that as an invitation in my experience.
I made that mistake years ago. I think I stood on my front step arguing for over an hour.

Problem is if I do that, then I get stuck having to sit way down front! :p


Well, you need to get the tickets first, of course.
When I don't feel like commercials, I get the tickets, go for a pint and show up at the cinema again 15 mins after the show starts. Simple.
Unless you meet a missionary on the way, that is. ;)

Well, you need to get the tickets first, of course.
When I don't feel like commercials, I get the tickets, go for a pint and show up at the cinema again 15 mins after the show starts. Simple.
Unless you meet a missionary on the way, that is. ;)

LOL...

So.. when you get theater tickets to a movie, it assigns your seat?

Not so here...

LOL...

So.. when you get theater tickets to a movie, it assigns your seat?

Not so here...

You need to find yourself a better cinema, methinks ;)

I made that mistake years ago. I think I stood on my front step arguing for over an hour.

what just about atheism and all that jazz?
how rude, you'd think they might converse about some other topic, you know to mix things up a little:
**Converter rings bell*
Frank (owner of house answers)
"hello? what do you want?"
**"hi there i'm just popping by seeing how things are doing at your end of the city, do you play baseball? we play a game at the field at 8pm, care to join?"
"um sure, hey aren't you one of those bible people, you know the ones who try to make me repent for my sins?"
**"yeah some of us do that, i prefer to just get on with things and enjoy life, so you up for the game later?"
"can i bring beer for afterward?"
**"sure why not, i mean i won't drink it but you know, it's your decision ultimately"
"well i ain't doing anything later sure i'll pass by"
**"excellent, oh if you really want i can give you some information about our religion?"
"no that's okay, bye"
**"bye and remember 8pm, God bless"
(Frank turns to his wife Clementine)
"say that was a nice guy wasn't he?"
"sure was, sure was".
{scene ends}

You need to find yourself a better cinema, methinks ;)

AFAIK they're all like that here... So question: When you buy your movie ticket, does the price vary by the location of the seat?

AFAIK they're all like that here... So question: When you buy your movie ticket, does the price vary by the location of the seat?

No. You get to pick a seat, and depending on when you buy the ticket you have more or less choice as some of the seats are already sold.

No. You get to pick a seat, and depending on when you buy the ticket you have more or less choice as some of the seats are already sold.

Must be nice...

Although I guess it sh ould come as no surprise that it's the way it is here. By having wide open seating you guarantee people will be in there early enough to get a good seat and thus be exposed to the ads.

...talk about a captive audience...

when I was standing out in the cold at 3am waiting for a store to open the day after Thanksgiving(US) a local church youth group came out and gave out coffee for free, they handed me a business card with it that said the name of the church and "if you ever need any sort of help, call us", they weren't shitting either, a few months later I happened upon someone who needed major help fixing their car and paying rent or they would literally be out on the street, I wasn't able to help much (got the car running and bought groceries) but when I called that church they paid the rent, even the back rent and 3 months of utilities and then hired the mom of the family who had been searching for a job, all without asking anything in return. They haven't tried to convert her at all, they just wanted to help out.

A card with contact information is one thing, but as I said in an earlier post I'm used to any help that comes from a church including a religious tract on how your life would be better if you converted. These are the ones that don't make you sit through a full on sermon first.

Heres a fun hypothetical. Lets say that Islam is the One True Religion (TM). And being anything but a Muslim earns you an eternity in hell.

Then, under this hypothetical scenario, every Christian Missionary is the worst kind of criminal, as he is activally converting people to a false religion that will earn them nothing but a spot in Hell.


Just some food for thought.

Heres a fun hypothetical. Lets say that Islam is the One True Religion (TM). And being anything but a Muslim earns you an eternity in hell.

Then, under this hypothetical scenario, every Christian Missionary is the worst kind of criminal, as he is activally converting people to a false religion that will earn them nothing but a spot in Hell.


Just some food for thought.

I've thought of similar scenarios.

The thing is, if God IS a God of justice, then people wouldn't be condemned to eternal suffering for doing what they thought was best for those they were prosletyzing to.

I've thought of similar scenarios.

The thing is, if God IS a God of justice, then people wouldn't be condemned to eternal suffering for doing what they thought was best for those they were prosletyzing to.

But, see, every Abrahamic religion says explicitally that if you dont follow this particular brand of God, youre going to hell. Doesnt matter if your a Ghandi, you still prayed to the wrong God, so Satan's waiting for you.

Which is why I find Abrahamic religions philosophically abusrd. If you are a Ghandi, sure youre a great person, but too bad you werent in my fan club, fire and brimstone for you. Oh, John Wayne Gacey found Jesus right before he died? Come on in man!


Thats why I dont care too much about religion. I figure if there is a God worth a damn, Im a good guy, so I should be ok in the end.

I've thought of similar scenarios.

The thing is, if God IS a God of justice, then people wouldn't be condemned to eternal suffering for doing what they thought was best for those they were prosletyzing to.

Without concern or respect for the choices these others have made?
If god happens to exist and is actually just, I don't think he'll look too kindly on this kind of behaviour.

But, see, every Abrahamic religion says explicitally that if you dont follow this particular brand of God, youre going to hell. Doesnt matter if your a Ghandi, you still prayed to the wrong God, so Satan's waiting for you.

Which is why I find Abrahamic religions philosophically abusrd. If you are a Ghandi, sure youre a great person, but too bad you werent in my fan club, fire and brimstone for you. Oh, John Wayne Gacey found Jesus right before he died? Come on in man!


Thats why I dont care too much about religion. I figure if there is a God worth a damn, Im a good guy, so I should be ok in the end.

Not all Abrahamic Religions. I'm a Mormon, and an eternity of hellfire and brimstone ain't part of the program in our Church.

Without concern or respect for the choices these others have made?
If god happens to exist and is actually just, I don't think he'll look too kindly on this kind of behaviour.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. What others do you refer to?

But, see, every Abrahamic religion says explicitally that if you dont follow this particular brand of God, youre going to hell. Doesnt matter if your a Ghandi, you still prayed to the wrong God, so Satan's waiting for you.

Which is why I find Abrahamic religions philosophically abusrd. If you are a Ghandi, sure youre a great person, but too bad you werent in my fan club, fire and brimstone for you. Oh, John Wayne Gacey found Jesus right before he died? Come on in man!


Actually, no. You seem to have received your religious education from a combination of 700 Club ads and 19th century hornbooks. I cannot think of any mainstream Abrahamic religion that says disbelief=hell.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. What others do you refer to?

The to-be-converted ones.

Actually, no. You seem to have received your religious education from a combination of 700 Club ads and 19th century hornbooks. I cannot think of any mainstream Abrahamic religion that says disbelief=hell.

Then I dont think you know anything about Christianity, as all major sects of protestantism and catholisim say if you dont believe Jesus was the son of God and died for your sins, you go to hell.

My religious education comes from churches, pastors, and priests.


EDIT: Remember Im talking dogma and doctrine. There are Im sure some churches and people out there who are unorthodox and preach unorthodox things.

Actually, no. You seem to have received your religious education from a combination of 700 Club ads and 19th century hornbooks. I cannot think of any mainstream Abrahamic religion that says disbelief=hell.

Why do they try to convert people, then?

Why do they try to convert people, then?

Because they believe the world will be better off if we all live Christian lives. They also believe that "good" people believe in their God, and "good" people get into heaven. But it is impossible to say who is going to get into heaven and who isn't based solely on the label someone gives himself.

There's also, of course, the distinction between Abrahamic philosophy (what KoL said) and the people who call themselves Christian or Jewish or Muslim. That should be obvious.

Because they believe the world will be better off if we all live Christian lives. They also believe that "good" people believe in their God, and "good" people get into heaven. But it is impossible to say who is going to get into heaven and who isn't based solely on the label someone gives himself.

There's also, of course, the distinction between Abrahamic philosophy (what KoL said) and the people who call themselves Christian or Jewish or Muslim. That should be obvious.

And, again, I think you'll find most people who call themselves Christians believe (just like most preach) that you must be Christian to get into Heaven.

If your churches preaches that good people no matter their flavor get into Heaven, good on them. Their philosophy makes more sense. But itd still be considered unorthodox.

Then I dont think you know anything about Christianity, as all major sects of protestantism and catholisim say if you dont believe Jesus was the son of God and died for your sins, you go to hell.

There is a fun article here about hell (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07207a.htm). Please note two things:

The Church has toned down its message since this was written. Nothing in doctrine has changed, as far as I know, but they stress it less than they used to.
Nowhere, in this very long article, does it say how you get to hell. This is as specific as it gets.
There is a hell, i.e. all those who die in personal mortal sin, as enemies of God, and unworthy of eternal life, will be severely punished by God after death.

So, in other words, you go to hell if you don't go to heaven. It's very vague, and with good reason: no one has ever come back from hell to tell us what the criteria are.

EDIT: Some more recent stuff, which I got from...uh, a book! Yeah, that's it, a real book which I read myself!*
The images of hell that Sacred Scripture presents to us must be correctly interpreted. They show the complete frustration and emptiness of life without God. Rather than a place, Hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy


*Or Wikipedia. They're close.

So, in other words, you go to hell if you don't go to heaven. It's very vague, and with good reason: no one has ever come back from hell to tell us what the criteria are.

*sends NL to hell*
*waits for report*

It's very vague, and with good reason: no one has ever come back from hell to tell us what the criteria are.
[/SIZE]

Dante has.


I kid.

I've never understood those Christians who preach salvation by faith alone. I have some problems with the Catholic Church, and a few of my relatives have actually left the Church over such problems, but their emphasis on good works as a requirement to get into Heaven makes a lot more sense to me.

we love missonaries, with lots of tobasco, either grilled or broiled.

=^^=
.../\...

Yah I see where you're coming from. I was just throwing it out there.

Actually, I have a lot of respect for missionaries in general. I mean, we're talking about people who give up all of the comnforts of home to go out into the world to offer their message to people who often react with hostility. Even if it's not to a 3rd World country, just the fact of being away from home is a huge challenge.

I have a close friend who is on a mission in Russia right now. He's put his own life on hold (voluntarily, of course) to go out there. He spoke no Russian before this, so he had to learn it just for the mission.

Sometimes the Jehovah's Witnesses come knocking and while I'm not a JW myself, I still respect them and for the same reason. Honestly, if I don't want to talk to them I can ignore the knocking at the door or I can just let them know I don't want to be visited again and that's all it takes. Mistakes happen, sometimes you say go away and they come back after awhile, but that's not the way the policies are set up so there's no need to be hostile to the individuals who come knocking.

The thing to keep in mind is that from the point of view of the missionary, they have someting that's really cool and awesome and they want to share it with as many as will listen. No offense is meant and they certainly don't do it out of arrogance or judgmentalism.

Cut 'em a little slack.



This is a perfect example of why missionaries tend to get bad reputations sometimes. This kind of stuff is wrong and whoever uses extortion to gain converts os NOT doing God's work.

I'm a big fan of pretty much this entire post.

I've never met a missionary that went away after a simple "I'm atheist, please go away". They usually take that as an invitation in my experience.

Get more experience, and then fall back on your expertise when whining.

Get more experience, and then fall back on your expertise when whining.

I think 3 decades is quite enough, thank you.
And no, I don't WANT more experience with those people. I think that if I'm to listen to lunatics, I might as well get a job in an asylum and at least get paid for the effort.

Cut them some slack for deciding to go out there and annoy folks who would be far happier if those folks had just stayed home and left them alone???

:confused:

Why?
Do you cut a child molestor some slack cause he waited for the kid in the freezing rain?
It's their decision to disrupt people's days and to make a nuisance of themselves. Why should I cut them slack for them trying to stop me from shopping at Ann Summers? Why should I cut them some slack for them annoying strangers on the bus?
I wouldn't cut anybody else any slack for behaving unacceptably like that, so why would I make an exception for them?

It's unacceptable to advertise a way of life? That's ridiculous, now, according to you, it should be illegal (punishable by death perhaps?) for someone to say "Hey look, I have found this great skin cleanser at the supermarket!" or "Look at these potatoe chips! They are the best, you should try them!" because that is someone cramming their lifestyle down your throat, maybe you'd be happier without potatoe chips, regardless, they are teh ebil for recommending something that has made them happy. Wait... no they aren't.

annoy folks who would be far happier if those folks had just stayed home and left them alone???

Actually, had you applied perhaps some level of thought to this matter, you may have deducted that they are working off of the premise that you will actually be happier if you convert. Is this a preposterous premise? Not in the least, I am much happier, for untold reasons, since I made Christ the Lord of my life, what should I do, other than recommend to others this bliss that I have found? I am not so jealous as to keep my joy to myself, I am not so vain as to want to starve others of the possible jubilation that I have found in Christ. Thats why many missionaries do what they do, not to annoy you, as you seem to think.

Must be nice...

Although I guess it sh ould come as no surprise that it's the way it is here. By having wide open seating you guarantee people will be in there early enough to get a good seat and thus be exposed to the ads.

...talk about a captive audience...

I bring my DS to movie theatres! :D

It's unacceptable to advertise a way of life? That's ridiculous, now, according to you, it should be illegal (punishable by death perhaps?) for someone to say "Hey look, I have found this great skin cleanser at the supermarket!" or "Look at these potatoe chips! They are the best, you should try them!" because that is someone cramming their lifestyle down your throat, maybe you'd be happier without potatoe chips, regardless, they are teh ebil for recommending something that has made them happy. Wait... no they aren't.


First of, where did I call it "unacceptable"? I called it annoying, a nuisance and outside the boundaries of common courtesy and politeness.

If you had people jump at you shouting off about potatoes chips that enriched their lives, I think you could well be excused for voicing concern about their mental health at the responsible social welfare office. But when religion is concerned, I'm suddenly having people here asking me to respect others for ignoring all forms of manners and respect?


Actually, had you applied perhaps some level of thought to this matter, you may have deducted that they are working off of the premise that you will actually be happier if you convert. Is this a preposterous premise? Not in the least, I am much happier, for untold reasons, since I made Christ the Lord of my life, what should I do, other than recommend to others this bliss that I have found? I am not so jealous as to keep my joy to myself, I am not so vain as to want to starve others of the possible jubilation that I have found in Christ. Thats why many missionaries do what they do, not to annoy you, as you seem to think.

I believe they'd be happier to live with a bit more rationality in their lives. Yet I accept their choice to be religious, without running from house to house intruding on their lives and trying to force my opinion down their throats by whatever means possible, from simple continuous pestering to all-out threats. All I expect in return is to be left alone by them and live happily the way I choose.
What annoys me is the fact that they seem to think its ok to disregard any form of politeness or manner just because they talk about the big sky-fairy, and that they do not have to respect my decision about my life and convictions, because theirs are so superior.
I'm not argueing for outlawing missionaries, I would object to such a law, but they do irritate me and will be subject to verbal abuse next time one of them tries another conversion on me.

I've never understood those Christians who preach salvation by faith alone. I have some problems with the Catholic Church, and a few of my relatives have actually left the Church over such problems, but their emphasis on good works as a requirement to get into Heaven makes a lot more sense to me.

Typically the Bible verse "For it is by Grace, that we are saved, through faith, and not of deeds, lest any man should boast." Sets the standard for faith-based interpretation.

I pretty sure (though not 100%, plus laziness) that that is Eph. 2:8.

I think 3 decades is quite enough, thank you.
And no, I don't WANT more experience with those people. I think that if I'm to listen to lunatics, I might as well get a job in an asylum and at least get paid for the effort.

Umm, well if your 30, then you don't have 30 years of experience dealing with missionaries....

second, nothing you have, as yet, posted suggests that you actually do have much experience, yet you whine the loudest... not a good combination.

That is the basis for my post, not your assumed age.

I believe they'd be happier to live with a bit more rationality in their lives. Yet I accept their choice to be religious, without running from house to house intruding on their lives and trying to force my opinion down their throats by whatever means possible, from simple continuous pestering to all-out threats. All I expect in return is to be left alone by them and live happily the way I choose.

I wonder how Christians would feel if I went door to door or stood in the middle of a crowded sidewalk with a megaphone and tried to turn people away from God? Turning away from Christianity was the most liberating experiance Ive ever had in my life. It would be selfish not to try and spread this joy, wouldnt it?


I bet theyd consider it unacceptable, intrusive, annoying, and impolite. In fact, some retard senator might even propose banning it.


Double standard, no?

Umm, well if your 30, then you don't have 30 years of experience dealing with missionaries....

second, nothing you have, as yet, posted suggests that you actually do have much experience, yet you whine the loudest... not a good combination.

That is the basis for my post, not your assumed age.

I'm a good bit over 30. 30 years ago, I entered the Catholic education system. And I've had numerous encounters with missionaries of all flavours, not one of them in any way enjoyable. And yes, I do take the liberty of mouthing off about them.
If you ignore the general rules of politeness and courtesy by talking the ears of total strangers, that's bound to happen sooner or later.

First of, where did I call it "unacceptable"? I called it annoying, a nuisance and outside the boundaries of common courtesy and politeness.

If you had people jump at you shouting off about potatoes chips that enriched their lives, I think you could well be excused for voicing concern about their mental health at the responsible social welfare office. But when religion is concerned, I'm suddenly having people here asking me to respect others for ignoring all forms of manners and respect?

I would graciously aknowledge the advise concerning potato chips, but that must be unreasonable, as you make it sound.

I believe they'd be happier to live with a bit more rationality in their lives. Yet I accept their choice to be religious, without running from house to house intruding on their lives and trying to force my opinion down their throats by whatever means possible, from simple continuous pestering to all-out threats. All I expect in return is to be left alone by them and live happily the way I choose.
What annoys me is the fact that they seem to think its ok to disregard any form of politeness or manner just because they talk about the big sky-fairy, and that they do not have to respect my decision about my life and convictions, because theirs are so superior.
I'm not argueing for outlawing missionaries, I would object to such a law, but they do irritate me and will be subject to verbal abuse next time one of them tries another conversion on me.

Believe what you will, they don't believe that, really respect them, rather than claiming respect, and then clearly giving them none, as you are doing.

You have stated that it should be considered illegal harrassment to proselytize in any way you find annoying, which is very clearly any way concievable.

You intend o verbally abuse those whom you consider to be verbally abusing you? Doesn't seem like a great, or consistant plan, but hey, go for it.

I'm a good bit over 30. 30 years ago, I entered the Catholic education system. And I've had numerous encounters with missionaries of all flavours, not one of them in any way enjoyable. And yes, I do take the liberty of mouthing off about them.
If you ignore the general rules of politeness and courtesy by talking the ears of total strangers, that's bound to happen sooner or later.

And how do you know that you do not overstep the bounds of politeness in other areas? If you did would that make you a horribly terrible person? Apparently.

I wonder how Christians would feel if I went door to door or stood in the middle of a crowded sidewalk with a megaphone and tried to turn people away from God? Turning away from Christianity was the most liberating experiance Ive ever had in my life. It would be selfish not to try and spread this joy, wouldnt it?


I bet theyd consider it unacceptable, intrusive, annoying, and impolite. In fact, some retard senator might even propose banning it.


Double standard, no?

Oh, I remember the outrage here about "The Golden Compass" when it came out! It was considered to promote atheism, and some looney priests were actually trying to convince cinemas not to show it, or at least only show it in late screenings so as to not expose the poor impressionable kids to the bad, bad atheism.
Can't remember that much fuss being made about "The Lion, the Wich and the Wardrobe"... funny, that.

I wonder how Christians would feel if I went door to door or stood in the middle of a crowded sidewalk with a megaphone and tried to turn people away from God? Turning away from Christianity was the most liberating experiance Ive ever had in my life. It would be selfish not to try and spread this joy, wouldnt it?


I bet theyd consider it unacceptable, intrusive, annoying, and impolite. In fact, some retard senator might even propose banning it.


Double standard, no?

Umm, not to me. I would no doubt engage in debate, but I like debate, so that's an easy choice for me. :p

And how do you know that you do not overstep the bounds of politeness in other areas? If you did would that make you a horribly terrible person? Apparently.

I usually err on the side of caution.
A good indicator that I generally tend not to be overly impolite is the simple lack of people shouting at me regularly.

Oh, I remember the outrage here about "The Golden Compass" when it came out! It was considered to promote atheism, and some looney priests were actually trying to convince cinemas not to show it, or at least only show it in late screenings so as to not expose the poor impressionable kids to the bad, bad atheism.
Can't remember that much fuss being made about "The Lion, the Wich and the Wardrobe"... funny, that.

I rest my case;)

Oh, I remember the outrage here about "The Golden Compass" when it came out! It was considered to promote atheism, and some looney priests were actually trying to convince cinemas not to show it, or at least only show it in late screenings so as to not expose the poor impressionable kids to the bad, bad atheism.
Can't remember that much fuss being made about "The Lion, the Wich and the Wardrobe"... funny, that.

Umm, thats because priests don't often have a problem with movies that encourage their religious beliefs.

Regardless, the actions of the few do not define the standard of the many. I disagree with the contents/message of The Golden Compass, so you know what I did? I recommended against it to my Christian friends, and didn't go see it... and thats about it.

I usually err on the side of caution.
A good indicator that I generally tend not to be overly impolite is the simple lack of people shouting at me regularly.

You're being very impolite by whining about a large group of people, having clearly only been exposed to radical fringes of said group.

Dante has.


I kid.

Before any chance to comment on this post grows stale, I must say that it is pretty freakin' hilarious.

Before any chance to comment on this post grows stale, I must say that it is pretty freakin' hilarious.

Thank you.


*bows*

;)

Umm, thats because priests don't often have a problem with movies that encourage their religious beliefs.

Regardless, the actions of the few do not define the standard of the many. I disagree with the contents/message of The Golden Compass, so you know what I did? I recommended against it to my Christian friends, and didn't go see it... and thats about it.

In which case they're free to preach against it all they like. Trying to force their opinion on everybody by asking cinemas not to show the film is going a good bit too far.
It's the equivalent of the guy trying to stop me from shopping at Ann Summers, it's none of their business.

You're being very impolite by whining about a large group of people, having clearly only been exposed to radical fringes of said group.

I'm pretty clear who I'm irritated with.
The guy sitting in the office with a picture of Jesus on his desk is hardly a missionary. Those in the street trying to force their ideas on others clearly are.

Provoked irritation is hardly impolite.

I'm pretty clear who I'm irritated with.
The guy sitting in the office with a picture of Jesus on his desk is hardly a missionary. Those in the street trying to force their ideas on others clearly are.

Provoked irritation is hardly impolite.

That's relative.

You have officially inspired me to want to get an office job, and put up a picture of Jesus (as depicted in Family Guy):

http://s1.thetravisty.com/Contents_Thumbs/Family_Guy/Jesus_Christ.wmv.gif

In which case they're free to preach against it all they like. Trying to force their opinion on everybody by asking cinemas not to show the film is going a good bit too far.
It's the equivalent of the guy trying to stop me from shopping at Ann Summers, it's none of their business.

Cinema's choose which demographic to go after. If it's a very heavy Catholic region, they might stop showing the movie to avoid a Catholic boycott, and jsut cut their movie losses, it's called capitalism, if the priests are unable to persuade the cinema to stop the movie, well then it shouldn't concern you, now your just being impolite.

Cinema's choose which demographic to go after. If it's a very heavy Catholic region, they might stop showing the movie to avoid a Catholic boycott, and jsut cut their movie losses, it's called capitalism, if the priests are unable to persuade the cinema to stop the movie, well then it shouldn't concern you, now your just being impolite.

And how would it be impolite of me pointing out that movies are protected under the right of free speech, which churches should not try to inhibit? They are free to tell their believers not to go and see it (although it would make one wonder how fragile their belief in their own institution would be if they see a kiddie film as a threat, but that's besides the point), but trying to prevent the whole population from seeing it goes way beyond their privileges.
I think you might want to look up the definition of "polite" before further accusing me in every other post of being impolite.

"Can't remember that much fuss being made about "The Lion, the Wich and the Wardrobe"... funny, that. " -- "Umm, thats because priests don't often have a problem with movies that encourage their religious beliefs"
The point is, that ATHEISTS don't go around protesting movies that encourages silly (from their standpoint) religious beliefs. It is the Abrahamics who are more inclined to try to shut down expressions contrary to their private beliefs.

The point is, that ATHEISTS don't go around protesting movies that encourages silly (from their standpoint) religious beliefs. It is the Abrahamics who are more inclined to try to shut down expressions contrary to their private beliefs.

Yes they do, they jsut typically get less publicity.

And how would it be impolite of me pointing out that movies are protected under the right of free speech, which churches should not try to inhibit? They are free to tell their believers not to go and see it (although it would make one wonder how fragile their belief in their own institution would be if they see a kiddie film as a threat, but that's besides the point), but trying to prevent the whole population from seeing it goes way beyond their privileges.
I think you might want to look up the definition of "polite" before further accusing me in every other post of being impolite.

The priest is trying to save his community from potential harm, whether imagined or not. It is not unreasonable for me to ask a drug dealer not to peddle his wares in my neighborhood or the sake of my proverbial children, similarly, a priest may ask that a cinema not peddle 'harmful' films in his neighborhood. Understanding this is rationality.

Politness is relative, and because you treat impoliteness (in this thread, at least) as a cardinal sin, I am trying to demonstrate how you too must be teh ebilz if every person who has ever recommended something to someone else is.

Yes they do, they jsut typically get less publicity.
Source? I cannot imagine what you are talking about.

Source? I cannot imagine what you are talking about.

I don't have any, but I do recall a while back some athiests were protesting some Christian thing or somesuch.

EDIT: I'm pretty sure your sig joke rocks.

In which case they're free to preach against it all they like. Trying to force their opinion on everybody by asking cinemas not to show the film is going a good bit too far.
It's the equivalent of the guy trying to stop me from shopping at Ann Summers, it's none of their business.

I don't see a big difference from telling their flock to not see a movie and asking a theater to not show it. As long as they don't try to force the theater to stop physically, there's nothing wrong with talking to a business (from a legal standpoint).

Of course, the Church has not had great success with movie boycotts anyway:
http://soapboxrants.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/father-ted-careful-now.jpg

I don't see a big difference from telling their flock to not see a movie and asking a theater to not show it. As long as they don't try to force the theater to stop physically, there's nothing wrong with talking to a business (from a legal standpoint).

Of course, the Church has not had great success with movie boycotts anyway:

Yeah, if I saw someone protesting a movie, like, physically there and protesting, I would be more inclined to see it personally, and I've heard many have the same feeling... protesting movies is a pretty lame attempt, and it actually is doubtful to produce anything except inverse results.

And you are incorrect, you must not have listened, people can't request things of local businesses, that is impolite, which as we all know is teh ebilz.

But really, I agree with you.

http://soapboxrants.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/father-ted-careful-now.jpg

Do you happen to know what movie that is for*? And what does the one guys sign say? I can't read the top line.

EDIT: *=Well, I guess what movie is it against? :)

*sends NL to hell*
*waits for report*
Geography: Mountainous. Dirt is composed primarily of brimstone.
Climate: Hot, between 100 and and 212 degrees Celsius. Precipitation is frequent and sulfurous.
Flora: None visible.
Fauna: The primary animal species is a goat-like simian, probably related to freethinkers and evolutionists. They are social beings, led by an alpha male with a trident and leathery wings that have no practical purpose. They are omnivorous, eating mostly joy and the souls of the aborted.
Population: 144,000,000, with most of inhabitants on the upper level of limbo. They live fairly stable lives, with regular beatings and torture, including the rack, iron maiden, and Hadean Fire Drowning. Reports from inhabitants say that they used to practice waterboarding, but stopped when it was declared not to be torture by the Almighty God.
GDP: $4.2 trillion
GDP per capita: Each member of hell is rich as sin.
Conclusion: With its virgin natural resources, accelerating growth of population, and increasing involvement in the world of high finance, Hell is likely to experience an "Asian tiger" phenonomen in the next few years.

Do you happen to know what movie that is for*? And what does the one guys sign say? I can't read the top line.

EDIT: *=Well, I guess what movie is it against? :)

This picture is from the TV show Father Ted, which is hilarious and has earned the papal seal of approval. (Well, not really. But I liked it.)
The movie they are protesting is The Passion of St. Tiberius. I'm not sure if it is a real movie or not.

Geography: Mountainous. Dirt is composed primarily of brimstone.
Climate: Hot, between 100 and and 212 degrees Celsius. Precipitation is frequent and sulfurous.
Flora: None visible.
Fauna: The primary animal species is a goat-like simian, probably related to freethinkers and evolutionists. They are social beings, led by an alpha male with a trident and leathery wings that have no practical purpose. They are omnivorous, eating mostly joy and the souls of the aborted.
Population: 144,000,000, with most of inhabitants on the upper level of limbo. They live fairly stable lives, with regular beatings and torture, including the rack, iron maiden, and Hadean Fire Drowning. Reports from inhabitants say that they used to practice waterboarding, but stopped when it was declared not to be torture by the Almighty God.
GDP: $4.2 trillion
GDP per capita: Each member of hell is rich as sin.
Conclusion: With its virgin natural resources, accelerating growth of population, and increasing involvement in the world of high finance, Hell is likely to experience an "Asian tiger" phenonomen in the next few years.

Not to seem like I'm critiqueing an otherwise awesomely hilarious post... but your population numbers seem kinda low, and maybe thats just me thinking my terms, but why is that?

This picture is from the TV show Father Ted, which is hilarious and has earned the papal seal of approval. (Well, not really. But I liked it.)
The movie they are protesting is The Passion of St. Tiberius. I'm not sure if it is a real movie or not.

Oh, gotcha.

Here I was expecting it to be DaVinci Code protest or something.

I don't see a big difference from telling their flock to not see a movie and asking a theater to not show it.
I see a huge difference.
As long as they don't try to force the theater to stop physically, there's nothing wrong with talking to a business (from a legal standpoint).
From the legal standpoint, true, I don't think anyone is saying it's a crime; but it does constitute interference (or at least attempted interference) with people who were not allowed to make up their own minds about what they wanted to watch.

Yeah, if I saw someone protesting a movie, like, physically there and protesting, I would be more inclined to see it personally, and I've heard many have the same feeling... protesting movies is a pretty lame attempt, and it actually is doubtful to produce anything except inverse results.

And you are incorrect, you must not have listened, people can't request things of local businesses, that is impolite, which as we all know is teh ebilz.

But really, I agree with you.

You realize that is the only reason that idiot Dan Brown's horrid book "The De Vinci Code" was a best seller right? Because the catholic church shat a brick over it. If they hadnt bee trying to get it banned and slanderng it in public, then it wouldnt have been read by so many people because frankly, it really wasnt good.

I see a huge difference.
How so? The only thing I can think of is that in the first case you're talking to people who want to listen to you, and in the second you're talking to someone you don't know.
If I am upset that Fox stopped Arrested Development and replaced it with, I don't know, Family Guy 2, I'm perfectly entitled to send a letter to Fox asking them to take away Family Guy 2 and bring back Arrested Development. It would be no different if a minister sent a letter to Fox asking them to can the show because he thinks it is immoral. They can just as easily say no as when I sent a letter.

I see a huge difference.

From the legal standpoint, true, I don't think anyone is saying it's a crime; but it does constitute interference (or at least attempted interference) with people who were not allowed to make up their own minds about what they wanted to watch.

There is very little difference really, and anyone who wanted to see the movie can simply go to another theatre, or wait to rent/buy it.

A local Movie theatre (owned by Marcus Theatres, which is like, the twelfth biggest cinema chain in the US) didn't show some popular movie a few months ago because of some negotiated problems with the producer company. By your argument, this theatre choosing to boycott this company's films is interferance with peoples ability to choose freely for themselves, which is not so, locals had the opportunity to either boycott the theatre, or drive to see the movie elsewhere (or both).

Not to seem like I'm critiqueing an otherwise awesomely hilarious post... but your population numbers seem kinda low, and maybe thats just me thinking my terms, but why is that?

Hell has not had a cenus since A.D. 2. My numbers were based on that and estimates I collected from Hadean authorities. 144,000,000 was an average, the actual population is anywhere from 112,000,000 to 666,666,666,666,666.

I disagree with the contents/message of The Golden Compass, so you know what I did? I recommended against it to my Christian friends, and didn't go see it... and thats about it.

I have a question. If you disagree with the content, how did you come to that disagreement? Did you go see it, and decide so? Or were you told by someone else what they think the content is and you believed them?

I only ask because I saw it, and I'm quite religious and saw no promotion of atheisim in it. I saw things that severely contradicted the hierarchical Catholic model of the church, and in many ways bashed dogmatic religious practice, but nothing that was avowedly atheist.

If I am upset that Fox stopped Arrested Development and replaced it with, I don't know, Family Guy 2, I'm perfectly entitled to send a letter to Fox asking them to take away Family Guy 2 and bring back Arrested Development

See, you'd think so, and it is both reasonable and logical, not to mention rational, however, by sending that letter you threaten the freedoms of everyone who might watch Family Guy 2 (We call the show "American Dad" here :p). And the idea that your letter might cause such evil is a possibility that we cannot face.

Ok, so that is, of course, not my real perspective either... but satyr is fun isn't it?

I have a question. If you disagree with the content, how did you come to that disagreement? Did you go see it, and decide so? Or were you told by someone else what they think the content is and you believed them?

I only ask because I saw it, and I'm quite religious and saw no promotion of atheisim in it. I saw things that severely contradicted the hierarchical Catholic model of the church, and in many ways bashed dogmatic religious practice, but nothing that was avowedly atheist.

Hmm, you're right, 'content' was not the right word, as I heard from many sources that the content was mild. Rather I disagreed with the intended message.

And no, I didn't go see it, it's anti-theist message was very well publicized, and I decided the movie was not for me.

Then again I didn't see Narnia either, I liked the books too much to have wanted to see a Harry Potter inspired fad ruin the books.

Also, I didn't have any inclination to see the Golden Compass anyway, for similar reasons to not see Narnia, or Spiderwick, or any of the plethora.

Hell has not had a cenus since A.D. 2. My numbers were based on that and estimates I collected from Hadean authorities. 144,000,000 was an average, the actual population is anywhere from 112,000,000 to 666,666,666,666,666.

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification.

:p

I also like the million sixes, pretty funny.

Hell has not had a cenus since A.D. 2. My numbers were based on that and estimates I collected from Hadean authorities. 144,000,000 was an average, the actual population is anywhere from 112,000,000 to 666,666,666,666,666.

Adriatic authorities?! You went to the wrong place!

:p

hahaha the idea that everyone's heard everything there is to hear is as incorrect as suggesting that just because someone has a TV they've seen everything there is to see in the world.

I was a mormon missionary for the last 2 years. people don't know jack. but that's because not a lot of people care. Most christians i met, even in the south, are christians just because its the popular thing to do. Quite sad really.

I don't agree with all the means of proselyting... it can be rather annoying really. i did my best not to be one of those missionaries that does nothing but annoy people... I tried to just find people who were interested, and teach them about what I've learned. Again, while I don't agree with most of the means of proselyting out on the streets, I do agree with their motives.

People don't know anything. But that's because most people don't care about anything beyond their own day-to-day existance. I do what I can, but I accept it as fact that some people are just disposed to being apathetic towards knowledge of the eternities, or salvation, or Christ, or anything like that.

Hmm, you're right, 'content' was not the right word, as I heard from many sources that the content was mild. Rather I disagreed with the intended message.

And no, I didn't go see it, it's anti-theist message was very well publicized, and I decided the movie was not for me.

Then again I didn't see Narnia either, I liked the books too much to have wanted to see a Harry Potter inspired fad ruin the books.

Also, I didn't have any inclination to see the Golden Compass anyway, for similar reasons to not see Narnia, or Spiderwick, or any of the plethora.

But how, if you didn't see it (Or read the books it is apparently based on) can you know the intended message? Did the writer/producer/director publicly announce the movie as anti-theist (I could very well have missed this if they did, I care not for this crap I went to see it because I was bored)? Who publiscized the idea that it was anti-theist? I'm trying to point out a very big flaw in your assumption of the movie's nature, that you are getting that assumption from others who have motives they are pushing for whatever reason. You can say all you like that others said it was bad, so you say it's bad, but you're simply sticking into the system and perpetuating ignorance through gossip when you do. No critical thought on your part.

Now I agree, those fantasy movies are not my taste either, but I don't go about judging the content of them based on what others say if I havn't seen them. If I care enough to judge their content, message, or whatever, and tell others my judgement, then I go see it. And I honestly can't see how anyone else can seriously approach it any other way. I have great respect for my grandmother, a serious Catholic, who went to see it for herself, even though she ended up being against the movie, because she did that herself and didn't buy into the propaghanda, even if in the end she agreed with it.

hahaha the idea that everyone's heard everything there is to hear is as incorrect as suggesting that just because someone has a TV they've seen everything there is to see in the world.

I was a mormon missionary for the last 2 years. people don't know jack. but that's because not a lot of people care. Most christians i met, even in the south, are christians just because its the popular thing to do. Quite sad really.

I don't agree with all the means of proselyting... it can be rather annoying really. i did my best not to be one of those missionaries that does nothing but annoy people... I tried to just find people who were interested, and teach them about what I've learned. Again, while I don't agree with most of the means of proselyting out on the streets, I do agree with their motives.

People don't know anything. But that's because most people don't care about anything beyond their own day-to-day existance. I do what I can, but I accept it as fact that some people are just disposed to being apathetic towards knowledge of the eternities, or salvation, or Christ, or anything like that.

I would like to say thank you.

Not in direct relation to this thread, or any other communication with you, but thank you for laying up your life, and your plans, and your goals out of consideration for other people, many of them you no doubt never even met before.

And even though we probably would disagree on a number of theological points, I know that we agree on the 'why' of ministry, and that is concern for others, thank you for being a good citizen, and caring for others.

But how, if you didn't see it (Or read the books it is apparently based on) can you know the intended message? Did the writer/producer/director publicly announce the movie as anti-theist (I could very well have missed this if they did, I care not for this crap I went to see it because I was bored)? Who publiscized the idea that it was anti-theist? I'm trying to point out a very big flaw in your assumption of the movie's nature, that you are getting that assumption from others who have motives they are pushing for whatever reason. You can say all you like that others said it was bad, so you say it's bad, but you're simply sticking into the system and perpetuating ignorance through gossip when you do. No critical thought on your part.

Now I agree, those fantasy movies are not my taste either, but I don't go about judging the content of them based on what others say if I havn't seen them. If I care enough to judge their content, message, or whatever, and tell others my judgement, then I go see it. And I honestly can't see how anyone else can seriously approach it any other way. I have great respect for my grandmother, a serious Catholic, who went to see it for herself, even though she ended up being against the movie, because she did that herself and didn't buy into the propaghanda, even if in the end she agreed with it.

Actually yes, the author did publicly state that the message is anti-Christian. I heard it was anti-theism, and did research... but you know, thanks for even the attempt at giving me the benefit of the doubt, or even the possibility of benefit of the doubt.

I'll have you know that I don't jsut suck in what 'religious types' feed me, but that I do think, and behave critically, which is how I found out that the author himself stated the intent of his novels, which according to other, more informal sources were indeed quite darker, and noticably more anti-theism than the movie.

In the meantime, don't judge me based on a post that I corrected, in which you talk about the evils of ignorant judgmentalism unless you are ok with being the full hypocrite you have now made yourself.

Hows that for critical thinking?

Done it, works too. If you can pull it off.

Other things that work are:
- Wearing a ketchup stained robe and inviting them in while you were "just finishing up your ritual".
- "Hey, I was about to make some lunch, wanna come in? Mmmm, you look tasty."
- Overt sexual passes, especially if one of them is an attractive member of the opposite sex.
- Like above, only usually 10x better if it's a member of the same sex.
- A "Shotgun". They solve everything.

hahaha actually, I would have loved the 1st one, the second one, I would have pointed to my companion and said "he tastes better," the 3rd I would laugh and still do my teaching approaches, the 4th, I'd just keep you at arms length :P, and the last, well, someone actually pulled the trigger once... but he was stoned out of his mind and 100 meters away ...so we were like "Did he just shoot at us?" "I think so... are you shot?" "no... you?" "Nope. Cool!"

I would like to say thank you.

Not in direct relation to this thread, or any other communication with you, but thank you for laying up your life, and your plans, and your goals out of consideration for other people, many of them you no doubt never even met before.

And even though we probably would disagree on a number of theological points, I know that we agree on the 'why' of ministry, and that is concern for others, thank you for being a good citizen, and caring for others.

hey, God created this earth, and put everyone here. We're his children. Regardless if his children wind up Christian, Atheist, muslim, or even start threads like this, he still cares about them, and that gives me enough reason to care about them.

hey, God created this earth, and put everyone here. We're his children. Regardless if his children wind up Christian, Atheist, muslim, or even start threads like this, he still cares about them, and that gives me enough reason to care about them.

Or even start threads like this, lol, thats pretty good.

Actually yes, the author did publicly state that the message is anti-Christian. I heard it was anti-theism, and did research... but you know, thanks for even the attempt at giving me the benefit of the doubt, or even the possibility of benefit of the doubt.
Hard not to give the benifit of the doubt when you truley don't care about the controversy. There could be a controversy over whether apples are red or blue, and I could care less, but still point out where people are making silly arguments. I'm not here to push my point (Will discuss below).

I'll have you know that I don't jsut suck in what 'religious types' feed me, but that I do think, and behave critically, which is how I found out that the author himself stated the intent of his novels, which according to other, more informal sources were indeed quite darker, and noticably more anti-theism than the movie.
Good. Although I heard that the movie differed quite a bit from the book. But I care not enough to argue that as I have no interest in reading the book to find out myself.

In the meantime, don't judge me based on a post that I corrected, in which you talk about the evils of ignorant judgmentalism unless you are ok with being the full hypocrite you have now made yourself.

Hows that for critical thinking?
Getting better. Maybe about as far as you can take it in this situation. Although if you knew me personally you might be able to take it further and note that I have not in fact been hypocritical, you're just looking at the wrong arguments I'm making. Which, like I said in my first response of this post above, is why I post here, not to make you see my view, but to make you think differently about yours. Whatever you believe after I don't care, as long as you keep reevaluating yourself.

hahaha actually, I would have loved the 1st one, the second one, I would have pointed to my companion and said "he tastes better," the 3rd I would laugh and still do my teaching approaches, the 4th, I'd just keep you at arms length :P, and the last, well, someone actually pulled the trigger once... but he was stoned out of his mind and 100 meters away ...so we were like "Did he just shoot at us?" "I think so... are you shot?" "no... you?" "Nope. Cool!"

I find it hard to believe you'd end up in the last situation from previous posts. the only time i've ever pulled a "gun" on missionaries is posted here a page or two back, where they come early morning, get told to come back at 5, agree, and then return every hour or so like idiots. Beyond that one though, at the very least you'd be a fun missionary to pester. Although I strongly believe anyone who believes they can share their message of their belief should also believe that the person they are talking to can attempt to "counter convert" them. So missionaries don't like me because I always try to convert them when they try and convert me. Fair is fair eh?

I find it hard to believe you'd end up in the last situation from previous posts. the only time i've ever pulled a "gun" on missionaries is posted here a page or two back, where they come early morning, get told to come back at 5, agree, and then return every hour or so like idiots. Beyond that one though, at the very least you'd be a fun missionary to pester. Although I strongly believe anyone who believes they can share their message of their belief should also believe that the person they are talking to can attempt to "counter convert" them. So missionaries don't like me because I always try to convert them when they try and convert me. Fair is fair eh?haha, is it really a surprise that thoughtless idiots can be found in any religion? We don't really have that extensive a screening process. :) Some people just like to be drones that keep themselves busy by annoying everyone.

Getting better. Maybe about as far as you can take it in this situation. Although if you knew me personally you might be able to take it further and note that I have not in fact been hypocritical, you're just looking at the wrong arguments I'm making. Which, like I said in my first response of this post above, is why I post here, not to make you see my view, but to make you think differently about yours. Whatever you believe after I don't care, as long as you keep reevaluating yourself.

Umm, no, you were being a hypocrit by telling me not to judge something, when you had already judged me... look it up, that would be hypocrisy.

Re-evaluate what? My own knowledge of objective research? That doesn't logically follow. You attempted to make me re-evalutate myself, based on your ignorant judgement of my inability to think critically. You did not realize, however, that I did think critically, and therefore had not need to hindsight re-evaluate myself, or any position taken.

Now, comically, all tables have turned, and it is I who can suggest to you, that perhaps you would be better served by judging less, and thinking rationally, and critically more.

haha, is it really a surprise that thoughtless idiots can be found in any religion? We don't really have that extensive a screening process. :) Some people just like to be drones that keep themselves busy by annoying everyone.

More surprised when the intelligent ones dare show their face in light of all the mess the stupid ones make. Sad how the world is like that.

Umm, no, you were being a hypocrit by telling me not to judge something, when you had already judged me... look it up, that would be hypocrisy.

Re-evaluate what? My own knowledge of objective research? That doesn't logically follow. You attempted to make me re-evalutate myself, based on your ignorant judgement of my inability to think critically. You did not realize, however, that I did think critically, and therefore had not need to hindsight re-evaluate myself, or any position taken.

Now, comically, all tables have turned, and it is I who can suggest to you, that perhaps you would be better served by judging less, and thinking rationally, and critically more.

Ah, but you assume I am, or have, judged you. I do not know you, nor will I ever know you personally, and as thus approaching you is through a default concept of ignorance. How you think matters not to me on how I will aproach you if I don't know you, because it's better to start from the bottem and build up, in this case the bottem is the assumption of ignorance. If you think that through that approach I have judged you to be ignorant (And I agree, I can see why), well that is your call in the matter. Consider yourself like a jar. If I wish to know how you think, and to do what I can to help you along, but know nothing about you, is it better for me to approach you assuming you are a jar full of red and yellow jelly beans, when in fact you could be full of blue and black ones? Or is it better to approach you as an empty jar and let you fill it yourself in discussion?

It is, however, fairly easy to see how you can assume an attack through a baseline approach, as much of the last two pages of debate here seem to have been just that, attacks between eachother.

If you would like me to make a judgement, I shal, and judge that you have not yet picked up on the underlying point which I have been trying to make to you, as evidenced by your post above. And likewise, I can make the judgement that you have decided to approach me with the same model as you approach Cabra West earlier, and assume an attack where there is none intended. Which is, again, your call, not mine. I can't make you think differently, but I can hopefully point out where you can think differently by making you have to argue things that require ever so different thought processes.

More surprised when the intelligent ones dare show their face in light of all the mess the stupid ones make. Sad how the world is like that.


Meh, we're quieter... you don't notice us as much :)

Cabra, when I hear about missionaries going to Japan to convert people... I just wonder what the heck they're smoking.

As a Christian, I get annoyed and offended if someone decides to preach at me. It's one thing if I go to church and I am in fellowship -- it's another when someone takes it upon themself to "save me."

I can imagine it'd piss off the utterly disinterested and the actively against even worse than it does me!

Cabra, when I hear about missionaries going to Japan to convert people... I just wonder what the heck they're smoking.

As a Christian, I get annoyed and offended if someone decides to preach at me. It's one thing if I go to church and I am in fellowship -- it's another when someone takes it upon themself to "save me."

I can imagine it'd piss off the utterly disinterested and the actively against even worse than it does me!

Or maybe you know less and are aware of far less than you think you are, and people are just trying to share that opinion with you :)

Cabra, when I hear about missionaries going to Japan to convert people... I just wonder what the heck they're smoking.

As a Christian, I get annoyed and offended if someone decides to preach at me. It's one thing if I go to church and I am in fellowship -- it's another when someone takes it upon themself to "save me."

I can imagine it'd piss off the utterly disinterested and the actively against even worse than it does me!

I like...what's it called...preaching with actions? You know, the evangelizing you do by, oh I don't know, actually being a good person and following your faith honestly. That's always nice.

EDIT: After reading my post, I see the sarcasm didn't really work. I think the point is still clear, though.

Quite true. I think the best way to show get people interested in your fiath is to be a good example. Be a good caring person and follow your beliefs.

Certain missionaries bother me. The ones who come to my house. A couple mormon missionaires came up to my parents as they were leaving the funeral howm where my great uncles wake had just finished. I think that shows a lack of respect for the family of someone who died. Then is not a moment to preach to someone. I am not sterotyping mormons just giving an example I consider to show turnign someone off to your religon by being disrespectful.

Please continue with this story, I'm curious about this guy...

It was a woman... She took peanut butter sandwhiches to Mexico with a group of people, tried to build a church or a school or something, and ended up using all the water because the group of people kept flushing the toilets...

I went on a missions trip two years ago. We didn't do any preaching or anything, but we did build a house for this old man whose house had burned down in Mexico. Overall I would say it was a great experience and would suggest that everyone go to a poorer country or area just to help serve people. I figure the best way to preach the gospel is just by meeting the needs of the needy.

I vaguely remember that once, in my childhood, a Jehovah's Witness came around my neighbourhood. No one answered the door though, so that was that. Since my experience is rather limited in regards to missionaries, I can't really say one way or another. However, hypothetically speaking, I don't have a problem with them so long as they aim to introduce/educate/spread 'the word' as opposed to indoctrinating/force-feeding/abducting people.


If I wanted to see some missionaries I could always go to Africa.

A) I miss the heck out of you Cabra!!!! :fluffle::fluffle::fluffle:

B) OT: Having recently returned from the great conversion attempt of some well-meaning (however seriously misguided) self-proclaimed missionaries, I have to say the process is painful at best. Furthermore, being told that God hates me was a really pathetic attempt on their part to change my pagan ways. It was, of course, a poorly phrased way of saying that He shuns those who take the middle road. Needless to say, it was a failed process altogether. Instead of maintaining respect for their: "Those who have not been married in the church may not co-habitate together", my hubby and I opted to move away from his seriously overzealous family.

And I so wanted to find God. :(

Quite true. I think the best way to show get people interested in your fiath is to be a good example. Be a good caring person and follow your beliefs.

Certain missionaries bother me. The ones who come to my house. A couple mormon missionaires came up to my parents as they were leaving the funeral howm where my great uncles wake had just finished. I think that shows a lack of respect for the family of someone who died. Then is not a moment to preach to someone. I am not sterotyping mormons just giving an example I consider to show turnign someone off to your religon by being disrespectful.

I had to stop my companions so many times... no people skills whatsoever!!

The priest is trying to save his community from potential harm, whether imagined or not. It is not unreasonable for me to ask a drug dealer not to peddle his wares in my neighborhood or the sake of my proverbial children, similarly, a priest may ask that a cinema not peddle 'harmful' films in his neighborhood. Understanding this is rationality.

Politness is relative, and because you treat impoliteness (in this thread, at least) as a cardinal sin, I am trying to demonstrate how you too must be teh ebilz if every person who has ever recommended something to someone else is.

The drug dealer is breaking the law. The cinema owner isn't.

And politeness is only relative in cultural terms. Within a culture, there are very clear rules as to what is polite and what isn't.
That Tu Quoque arguments of yours is getting rather old in this context.

And you are incorrect, you must not have listened, people can't request things of local businesses, that is impolite, which as we all know is teh ebilz.

But really, I agree with you.

I would be very grateful if you stopped putting words in my mouth. I've never called missionaries evil, I called them impolite, irritating and annoying.
Yes, people can request things out of businesses. I'm sure some businesses have been asked before not to sell goods to blacks, or Jews, as some theaters have been asked not to show certain films and some publishers have been asked not to publish certain books. The first is called attempted discrimination, the second attempted censorship. I don't take kindly to either attempt.

There are two sorts of Missionary:

1. The good sort that go to the third world and set up schools and water supplies and bring the Bible with them.

2. The sort that stand in the street and tell people to repent.

1. I like.

2. Annoy me. Especially when I've just come out of Church!

Or even start threads like this, lol, thats pretty good.

Yes, cause being irritated by being hassled by total strangers on a more or less regulate basis and then venting on a discussion forum is the hight of evil... :rolleyes:

Or maybe you know less and are aware of far less than you think you are, and people are just trying to share that opinion with you :)

Possibly. And maybe you're not nearly as informed about quantum mechanics and evolutionary psychology as you could be. Would you appreciate being hassled about that by total strangers, who then proceed to follow you home from the bus? Or start abusing you for not listening?

A) I miss the heck out of you Cabra!!!! :fluffle::fluffle::fluffle:

I miss you, too, sugar! :fluffle::fluffle::fluffle:
Added you to my Yahoo in the hope of maybe getting to chat with you again, but the time difference seems to be against us :(


B) OT: Having recently returned from the great conversion attempt of some well-meaning (however seriously misguided) self-proclaimed missionaries, I have to say the process is painful at best. Furthermore, being told that God hates me was a really pathetic attempt on their part to change my pagan ways. It was, of course, a poorly phrased way of saying that He shuns those who take the middle road. Needless to say, it was a failed process altogether. Instead of maintaining respect for their: "Those who have not been married in the church may not co-habitate together", my hubby and I opted to move away from his seriously overzealous family.

And I so wanted to find God. :(

*shrugs*
See, I think if god does exist and really does meddle with people, I just can't for the life of me imagine him to be so petty as made out by almost all religions.

The to-be-converted ones.

Well in terms of people who try to convert by force/coercion then obviously they're doing wrong no matter the context.*

I meant those who do not try such tactics.

Then I dont think you know anything about Christianity, as all major sects of protestantism and catholisim say if you dont believe Jesus was the son of God and died for your sins, you go to hell.

My religious education comes from churches, pastors, and priests.


EDIT: Remember Im talking dogma and doctrine. There are Im sure some churches and people out there who are unorthodox and preach unorthodox things.

Unorthodox FTW!

*See, in LDS doctrine, choice is everything. if a person isn't converting of their own free will with complete understandig of what they're doing, then they're not converting at all and are just going through the motions, which from a spiritual standpoint, is worthless.

Quite true. I think the best way to show get people interested in your fiath is to be a good example. Be a good caring person and follow your beliefs.

Certain missionaries bother me. The ones who come to my house. A couple mormon missionaires came up to my parents as they were leaving the funeral howm where my great uncles wake had just finished. I think that shows a lack of respect for the family of someone who died. Then is not a moment to preach to someone. I am not sterotyping mormons just giving an example I consider to show turnign someone off to your religon by being disrespectful.

I think pretty much everybody would agree that they picked a VERY bad time to approach your parents. That still doesn't represent the majority. I mean, consider the vast majority of LDS Missionaries are between 19 and 21 years old, and sometimes they make mistakes from inexperience or youthful enthusiasm.

I bet if you were to encounter them now and remind them of the incident, they'd probably be embarassed and apologize.

Possibly. And maybe you're not nearly as informed about quantum mechanics and evolutionary psychology as you could be. Would you appreciate being hassled about that by total strangers, who then proceed to follow you home from the bus? Or start abusing you for not listening?

Are you assuming I don't believe in evolution or quantum mechanics? That's a horrible assumption to make.. that christians can't accept Science. Have you ever read CS Lewis? He couldn't deny science either. i think it's horrible to lump thinking christians in the same group as those who just do whats popular...

Are you assuming I don't believe in evolution or quantum mechanics? That's a horrible assumption to make.. that christians can't accept Science. Have you ever read CS Lewis? He couldn't deny science either. i think it's horrible to lump thinking christians in the same group as those who just do whats popular...

have you seen the Economist This week? There's an Article on an investigation by Scientists into Religion.

Are you assuming I don't believe in evolution or quantum mechanics? That's a horrible assumption to make.. that christians can't accept Science. Have you ever read CS Lewis? He couldn't deny science either. i think it's horrible to lump thinking christians in the same group as those who just do whats popular...

Who said anything about believe? You asked about being informed, not about believing.

But funny to see how you immediately jumped to conclusions there...

This discussion has begged a question on my mind.

What are the statistical rates of conversion in situations where it's not forced? And by forced I mean starving people being given food by missionaries who tell them to convert. I am specificly thinking on what are the rates of conversion for people in first world countries who get on the street or door-to-door missionaries. Simply, how sucessful are they actually?

I can't imagine very sucessful myself.

This discussion has begged a question on my mind.

What are the statistical rates of conversion in situations where it's not forced? And by forced I mean starving people being given food by missionaries who tell them to convert. I am specificly thinking on what are the rates of conversion for people in first world countries who get on the street or door-to-door missionaries. Simply, how sucessful are they actually?

I can't imagine very sucessful myself.

I believe they tend to be very sucessful in the former communist countries in Eastern Europe. Don't know if you want to count those as first world or not...

Other than that, not all that sucessfull, I should think. There was this massive boom of sects and cults in the 70s and early 80s, but that would appear to have died down somewhat now.

I believe they tend to be very sucessful in the former communist countries in Eastern Europe. Don't know if you want to count those as first world or not...

Other than that, not all that sucessfull, I should think. There was this massive boom of sects and cults in the 70s and early 80s, but that would appear to have died down somewhat now.

I still count those as second world. Except the other half of Germany. but the rest are still second world.

But yea. If it's not that sucessful, isn't it just bad buisness practice to keep it up? I mean if it literally takes you days of work to get maybe one convert in the west, when for the same funding/time you could get say 10 in Moldova, why even bother in the US? It's just bad buisness.

I still count those as second world. Except the other half of Germany. but the rest are still second world.

But yea. If it's not that sucessful, isn't it just bad buisness practice to keep it up? I mean if it literally takes you days of work to get maybe one convert in the west, when for the same funding/time you could get say 10 in Moldova, why even bother in the US? It's just bad buisness.

*lol
Maybe that's why Zilam keeps going on about missionating people in Africa... higher success rate = bigger bonus in the afterlife?

*lol
Maybe that's why Zilam keeps going on about missionating people in Africa... higher success rate = bigger bonus in the afterlife?

Perhaps they're still working on the M-101, Missionator.




Now someone needs to do a picture of Arnold in Terminator with a cross or something.

if God IS a God of justiceHasn't that already been settled?
Do not worship any other god, for the Lord , whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?version=NIV&passage=Exodus+34:14
Not just to the point, but redundant as such.

i don't hate anyone, but i am annoyed by the hypocracy of dishonesty pretending to promote morality.

=^^=
.../\...Amen to that. *bows*