NationStates Jolt Archive

come to Hawaii and experience the lyrical beat of Pid'gn English. :D

the phrase "I reconize the words... but I don't understand the language." will ever float in your brain.

I know this is off topic but I just had a 2 hour call with an idiot client who has one of his summer homes in Hawaii

Talk about money though he wants to rent a p2p t1 from Hawaii to Minnesota :-P

I know this is off topic but I just had a 2 hour call with an idiot client who has one of his summer homes in Hawaii

Talk about money though he wants to rent a p2p t1 from Hawaii to Minnesota :-P

... you get commission? :cool:

... you get commission? :cool:

No but as that is not under our "umbrella" I did get to make my normal wage + the billable amount (150 an hour) and I can expect about 15 more hours of that if the plan goes through ;)

(you... who? I'm Italian, you know)

Anyway, since I missed, I'll have another try. I was trying to point out the fact that I understand better Her British Majesty than I understand any other english-speaker, including Her British Subjects, Her Non-British Subjects and Any Other Native English-Speaker. I think it's because H.B.M.'s been taught to speak very clearly.
I hope I've explained my mind better this time.:)

You should swing by the Pacific Northwest sector of the U.S. I've been told we have quite bland accents.

Look at a quarter? Right between the eagle's wings on the tails side.

E PLURIBUS UNUM.

Out of Many, One!

Incidentally, we should go back to that as our motto. Only we should make it official this time.

Lol. :rolleyes:

Okay. Whatever. Have fun in your United States, whilst I continue to reside in the USA based in a little dimension I like to call "reality".

That's quite an ironic name.

But JuNii, why else would someone be prompted to place a sign like that at his store if not on account of fear? In most instances, fear´s the motivator. I don´t think Geno´s intentions were that altruistic as wanting people to practice English at his store. But once again, I could be wrong in my assertion.

I don't think it's fair to assume that it's out of fear an bigotry right off the bat.

I do not know though if service has been refused for not speaking English at the store.

It has been emphasized repeatedly in this thread that he has never refused service on these grounds and has been more than willing to help them order in English.

I don't think it's fair to assume that it's out of fear an bigotry right off the bat.



It has been emphasized repeatedly in this thread that he has never refused service on these grounds and has been more than willing to help them order in English.

I wasn´t assuming, if you read my post. And I also stated that I could be wrong in my assertions.
I also pointed out that I didn´t know if Geno had refused service to it´s none English speaking costumers.

Look... the fact of the matter is, I´m at a loss for your attitude. But what the heck, is not like it matters.
I was asking a question that to me, had validity.

Agreed. Your initial question had plenty of validity.

English is the language spoken in the US. So what would that make you, if you were from another country, think? Hm? That it´s the official language, since Americans are so adamant in it being the only language used there. I lived in the US, I was exposed to this. You spoke another language with someone else, for common courtesy, and Americans look at you like you´re an alien.

I would not think that, because I would not be so vain as to imagine that everything else in the world was like my country (despite being from the US). I, personally, am not adamant about English being spoken. If I knew Spanish, I would order food at a Mexican restaurant in Spanish every chance I got, and I'd tell those looking at me like I was an alien to mind their own damned business.

But it seems that it isn´t the official language. Of course, not counting the the President uses it, that every road sign´s in it or that it´s almost the only language the inhabitants know how to speak, well, maybe not speak, but use it. I don´t make the laws nor the nuances.

So you've never heard of the term, "language of the majority"? That's fine, it's not all that common. However, there are at least a few places where the language of the majority is NOT the official language. Hold on thirty seconds and let me look some up...New Zealand, where Maori is minority but official along with English is the only one that came up on a perfunctory search. But the Wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_language) on the topic was helpful.

I wanted to see what the US residents in NSG had to say about it. For that, for wanting to know what other people on the forum think, I don´t need Google. I don´t need a search engine if I want to have a debate with someone. Some answer, some didn´t. That was the end of that.

Thing is, the fact that the US has no official language was brought up a few times in the thread. If you can't be bothered to read the whole thread, then I can't help you. If you really wanted to know what NSG thought, you would have asked a question designed to garner that response instead of stating "English is the official language of the US, right?"

To which "wrong" is a perfectly competent answer. Why? Because it answers your question in one of only two ways it could have BEEN answered. Right (I agree, or that's correct) or wrong (I disagree, that's incorrect).

And yes, Wrong isn´t a competent answer. Explain yourself after using it.

Explain myself? How much further explanation is needed? You say it's the official language, I say it isn't, end of exchange. At THAT POINT, you could have looked it up, but alas, no. You decide to show your sensitive side and then denigrate me with your "insight into the American psyche" jab.

If I offended you in any way by my curiosity, well, I apologize. If you think I was deliberately asking the same question over and over again, let me assure you, I wasn´t. And now, normality sets in. Agur!

Agur, as I found out by looking it up, is apparently a Euskera (Basque) word that gets slipped into Castilian, kinda like Spanglish (or Portuñol). It means hasta luego -- goodbye. Apparently Euskera is older than Latin. Cool!

See? Curiosity led me to look all that up. I ask NSG when I want opinions. You didn't initially ask for opinions, you wanted a fact. I gave it to you. So far, the only objection you have is to my one-word answer. Weak sauce, amigo.

But you know what? Forget about it. Let me start all over -- the last thing I want is for you to think that I am somehow representative of all Americans in my terseness and insistence upon self-reliance.

Nanatsu no Tsuki, I hereby apologize and ask your forgiveness for acting like a bendejo over this whole mess.

I think the reference is also to "E PLURIBUS UNUM", "ANNUIT COEPTIS", and "NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM"

um i have a small question, what do those latin words mean? Is it the post you replied to that contains the answer?
cheerybye

I wasn´t assuming, if you read my post. And I also stated that I could be wrong in my assertions.
I also pointed out that I didn´t know if Geno had refused service to it´s none English speaking costumers.

It's all over the thread. Check out Neesika's sparring with some of the other cast of characters for the relevant details. Geno's has never refused service to anyone for not speaking English, and that's what won him the lawsuit.

You should swing by the Pacific Northwest sector of the U.S. I've been told we have quite bland accents.

We do. Je suis un Seattleite.

Out of Many, One!

Incidentally, we should go back to that as our motto. Only we should make it official this time.

I quite agree.

It has been emphasized repeatedly in this thread that he has never refused service on these grounds and has been more than willing to help them order in English.

Yes. Yes it has. Repeatedly. In this very thread. Thank you for pointing that out. I tried that once and got stereotyped for it. Meh.

um i have a small question, what do those latin words mean? Is it the post you replied to that contains the answer?
cheerybye

Google loves you. Why not return the love?

some one from the UK needs to vandlise the sign by placing 'No, you!" under it.

Damn americans and their damn Americanise

um i have a small question, what do those latin words mean? Is it the post you replied to that contains the answer?
cheerybye

E PLURIBUS UNUM = 'Out of many, One'

ANNUIT COEPTIS = favors (lit., gives the nod to) undertakings (http://www.greatseal.com/mottoes/coeptis.html)

NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM = New Order of the Ages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novus_Ordo_Seclorum)

Agreed. Your initial question had plenty of validity.



I would not think that, because I would not be so vain as to imagine that everything else in the world was like my country (despite being from the US). I, personally, am not adamant about English being spoken. If I knew Spanish, I would order food at a Mexican restaurant in Spanish every chance I got, and I'd tell those looking at me like I was an alien to mind their own damned business.



So you've never heard of the term, "language of the majority"? That's fine, it's not all that common. However, there are at least a few places where the language of the majority is NOT the official language. Hold on thirty seconds and let me look some up...New Zealand, where Maori is minority but official along with English is the only one that came up on a perfunctory search. But the Wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_language) on the topic was helpful.



Thing is, the fact that the US has no official language was brought up a few times in the thread. If you can't be bothered to read the whole thread, then I can't help you. If you really wanted to know what NSG thought, you would have asked a question designed to garner that response instead of stating "English is the official language of the US, right?"

To which "wrong" is a perfectly competent answer. Why? Because it answers your question in one of only two ways it could have BEEN answered. Right (I agree, or that's correct) or wrong (I disagree, that's incorrect).



Explain myself? How much further explanation is needed? You say it's the official language, I say it isn't, end of exchange. At THAT POINT, you could have looked it up, but alas, no. You decide to show your sensitive side and then denigrate me with your "insight into the American psyche" jab.



Agur, as I found out by looking it up, is apparently a Euskera (Basque) word that gets slipped into Castilian, kinda like Spanglish (or Portuñol). It means hasta luego -- goodbye. Apparently Euskera is older than Latin. Cool!

See? Curiosity led me to look all that up. I ask NSG when I want opinions. You didn't initially ask for opinions, you wanted a fact. I gave it to you. So far, the only objection you have is to my one-word answer. Weak sauce, amigo.

But you know what? Forget about it. Let me start all over -- the last thing I want is for you to think that I am somehow representative of all Americans in my terseness and insistence upon self-reliance.

Nanatsu no Tsuki, I hereby apologize and ask your forgiveness for acting like a bendejo over this whole mess.

Dismissed. You and I obviously don´t mesh well, but it´s ok. I respect your assertions and commend you on your self reliance, though. Sorry for the jab, it was uncalled for. And it´s pendejo, not bendejo. Which is quite the insult, but it also means pubic hair. Of course, I´m not calling you that. Good day.

Google loves you. Why not return the love?
I was too tired to look, and i'm just so overwhelmed by the amount of information you can get from even one search.

E PLURIBUS UNUM = 'Out of many, One'

ANNUIT COEPTIS = favors (lit., gives the nod to) undertakings (http://www.greatseal.com/mottoes/coeptis.html)

NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM = New Order of the Ages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novus_Ordo_Seclorum)

thank you.

Dismissed. You and I obviously don´t mesh well, but it´s ok. I respect your assertions and commend you on your self reliance, though. Sorry for the jab, it was uncalled for. And it´s pendejo, not bendejo. Which is quite the insult, but it also means pubic hair. Of course, I´m not calling you that. Good day.

Most kind. Thank you.

We do. Je suis un Seattleite.

I should have known by the Seahawk signature.

Salutations, le plus honoré frère du Nord-Ouest!

Yeah, I'm sure that was wrong. But effort is effort, no? Anyway, I'm more of a Bellvueling, but Seattle represents us anyway for the most part.

I quite agree.

I kinda feel like it describes the U.S. better than what we have now to be honest.

Yes. Yes it has. Repeatedly. In this very thread. Thank you for pointing that out. I tried that once and got stereotyped for it. Meh.

Anytime.

This is a Star Trek convention: WHEN ORDERING PLEASE SPEAK KLINGON!

Fixed ;)

Oh...wow, really? So I can open up a store in your country, and require that people speak the Y dialect of Plains Cree?

Pure genius!

You could, I suppose, but I would think the business base would be extremely limited.

This is America: WHEN ORDERING PLEASE SPEAK KLINGON!
Sajmey Sop tera'nganpu'! cho'eH jab! wa' ghagh'a' qatlhob.

(if we hold the blogg to be a credible news source...)
which speaks more of frustration than fear. ;)

Xenophobia, I'd say.

And the Evil Blogg has a link to the original story...

Google loves you. Why not return the love?

:D

You made me smile, so I made this for you:


http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u275/Gravlen/NSG/motivator2386676.jpg

Americans expect people in other countries to speak their own language. And I´m so spiteful.. One American lady asked a question in English and I didn´t answer. She asked me if I was ignoring her, and I told her than since she was in MY country, I expected her to address me in Spanish.

I can understand if Geno wants English spoken in his store. It´s in the US, is it not? And English is the official language there, right? Ok.
If any of you ask me a question whilst in my own country, don´t expect me to be condescending and go out of my way to talk to you in your native tongue. You´re in Spain, use a friggin´ Spanish dictionary! Same principle applies in the US.;)

Actually, thats false, the U.S. doesn't have an official language.

Edit: NVM, already addressed...

Lol. :rolleyes:

Okay. Whatever. Have fun in your United States, whilst I continue to reside in the USA based in a little dimension I like to call "reality".

The reality where the fact that there isn't an official language of the U.S. doesn't stop there from being an official language of the U.S.?

I'll let you stay there, thanks.

Xenophobia, I'd say.

And the Evil Blogg has a link to the original story...

the link is 'page not found'.

so the only source of Xenophobia is the blogg itself where it says...
Reader Willie S. sends word via the Philly Inquirer that Joey Vento, the grandson of Italian-born immigrants who owns Geno’s, is taking a stand for assimilation and against illegal immigration.
so a reader sends word via the philly inquirer that the owner of the store is taking a stand for Assimilation and against Illegal Immigration.

isn't that the same as "I heard it from a friend of a friend..."

yet look at the section the blog does supposidly take from the philly inquirer.

And it bugs Vento if they can’t ask for American cheese, provolone or the classic - Cheez Whiz - without pointing.

so it's more irritation than xenophobia.

and this quote...
He has driven through South Philadelphia blaring through the SUV’s P.A. system denunciations of neighborhood business owners who hire illegal immigrants.
note the bolding. Illegal Immigrants. NOT Immigrants and his 'messages' are targetting the business owners, not the illegal immigrants themselves.

so it's not Xenophobia since it seems that he doesn't care about Legal Immigrants.

so is Xenophobia a fear of only certain things that are alien depending on their legality?

also, considering that as of this post, no one can prove that Geno's has not refused service to any unable to order in English... and the fact that the sign is posted in English and not in any other language, means that it's just a 'makes me feel good' act, a harmless (to others) statement, or an inside, personal joke.

Actually, thats false, the U.S. doesn't have an official language.

Edit: NVM, already addressed...


Yes, it has already been addressed, fought over, answered and tossed over around the world several times. Some live in an alternate universe, others don´t go to Google for the all pressing questions of their lives and so far, it´s all good.:rolleyes:

the link is 'page not found'.

so the only source of Xenophobia is the blogg itself where it says...

so a reader sends word via the philly inquirer that the owner of the store is taking a stand for Assimilation and against Illegal Immigration.

isn't that the same as "I heard it from a friend of a friend..."
I guess it was difficult to do a search on the newspaper site the link led to...

Who knows what you might have found - even a video interview (http://www.philly.com/philly/multimedia/12511101.html) with the owner, or updated news (even the latest news (http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/16845211.html).)

Technology is amazing :)

so it's more irritation than xenophobia.

Is it?
It seems like irritation that leads to the owner making what he himself claims is a political statement. And as such it leaves the realm of "irritation".
Vento, sporting a black leather jacket and lots of bling, showed up yesterday ready for battle, with his Atlanta-based legal team and dozens of supporters at his side. The sign, he said, posted more than two years ago, is designed to make a political statement and keep the line moving at the world-famous Geno's Steaks.
Linky (http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/12529026.html)

note the bolding. Illegal Immigrants. NOT Immigrants and his 'messages' are targetting the business owners, not the illegal immigrants themselves.
But he doesn't care for the legal immigrants who may not speak English, nor about US citizens who speak other languages either.

so it's not Xenophobia since it seems that he doesn't care about Legal Immigrants.
They are included in his "Speak English" demand, harmlessly situated over the "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" sign. Hint, hint...

so is Xenophobia a fear of only certain things that are alien depending on their legality?
No, it seems like he fears all of those pesky non-English speakers.

also, considering that as of this post, no one can prove that Geno's has not refused service to any unable to order in English... and the fact that the sign is posted in English and not in any other language, means that it's just a 'makes me feel good' act, a harmless (to others) statement, or an inside, personal joke.
I don't see it that way at all. And apparently, neither does the owner.

I guess it was difficult to do a search on the newspaper site the link led to...

Who knows what you might have found - even a video interview (http://www.philly.com/philly/multimedia/12511101.html) with the owner, or updated news (even the latest news (http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/16845211.html).)

Technology is amazing :)yep, yet you pointed to a broken link. :p

Is it?
It seems like irritation that leads to the owner making what he himself claims is a political statement. And as such it leaves the realm of "irritation".

Linky (http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/12529026.html) it's still a sign of irritation/fustration even as a political statement, yet you failed to prove xenophobia.

But he doesn't care for the legal immigrants who may not speak English, nor about US citizens who speak other languages either. please show where he refused service due to lack of english on the part of the customer?

They are included in his "Speak English" demand, harmlessly situated over the "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" sign. Hint, hint... and both signs are written in.... English! :p

again, can you show where he refused service to someone because they couldn't speak english?

No, it seems like he fears all of those pesky non-English speakers. Prove it.
back up the fact that he is motivated by 'fear'.

I don't see it that way at all. And apparently, neither does the owner.
can you show where he refused service to someone because they couldn't speak english?

I'm sure those who cannot understand english wouldn't understand the sign and thus cannot comply. so there must be some instances where he would uphold the sign he so seriously follows.

it's still a sign of irritation/fustration even as a political statement, yet you failed to prove xenophobia.
I don't need to prove it. It's my opinion.

please show where he refused service due to lack of english on the part of the customer?
again, can you show where he refused service to someone because they couldn't speak english?
can you show where he refused service to someone because they couldn't speak english?
As I - and many others - have said before, he hasn't done that.

Prove it.
back up the fact that he is motivated by 'fear'.
It's my impression based on what he says and how he said it, including the wording and placing of the sign.


I'm sure those who cannot understand english wouldn't understand the sign and thus cannot comply. so there must be some instances where he would uphold the sign he so seriously follows.
The sentiment and signal he sends is enough.

As I - and many others - have said before, he hasn't done that. so how is it xenophobia if he still treats everyone the same?

how is it out of fear?

It's my impression based on what he says and how he said it, including the wording and placing of the sign.
The sentiment and signal he sends is enough.
a sentiment and signal that can only be recieved and understood by those who understand English... ;)

so how is it xenophobia if he still treats everyone the same?

how is it out of fear?
I think he's afraid of the "foreigners" and the immigrants. Even if he doesn't act on it and discriminates - which would be an illegal act, mind you - he seeks to make a political statement that he wants people to conform to his ways and he fears that those ways will be a thing of the past by the influx of new people with different languages.

That's my view of it.

a sentiment and signal that can only be recieved and understood by those who understand English... ;)
Not at all. The sign will allow (if not encourage) the staff to make the statement clear to anyone daring to try to point at what they want.

And besides, what about the ones who can understand what they read but aren't proficient in speaking the language - they'll get it too.

I think he's afraid of the "foreigners" and the immigrants. Even if he doesn't act on it and discriminates - which would be an illegal act, mind you - he seeks to make a political statement that he wants people to conform to his ways and he fears that those ways will be a thing of the past by the influx of new people with different languages.

That's my view of it.


Not at all. The sign will allow (if not encourage) the staff to make the statement clear to anyone daring to try to point at what they want.

And besides, what about the ones who can understand what they read but aren't proficient in speaking the language - they'll get it too.

yet as you said, there is no proof that anyone at Geno's refused service due to a lack of knowledge of english. thus no proof of discrimination (which is evident by the fact that his sign was 'okayed'.) and no proof of 'fear of immigrants' or xenophobia. the sign is written in english, thus useless to force conforming on anyone who doesn't understand english, thus no proof of fear.

thus you opinion, while yours, is not based off of any facts presented but only what you interpreted by what was presented by both blogg and news outlets.

yet as you said, there is no proof that anyone at Geno's refused service due to a lack of knowledge of english. thus no proof of discrimination (which is evident by the fact that his sign was 'okayed'.) and no proof of 'fear of immigrants' or xenophobia. the sign is written in english, thus useless to force conforming on anyone who doesn't understand english, thus no proof of fear.
Actually, that the sign is in English just strengthens my views that the political statement he wishes to make is directed at others who may feel the same way as him, and nod to themselves in agreement when they see the sign. It also indicates that he doesn't expect the sign to have an effect besides being provocative.

thus you opinion, while yours, is not based off of any facts presented but only what you interpreted by what was presented by both blogg and news outlets.
...and his statements in interviews (including the video one), the sign itself, its placement as seen on the pictures, and the surrounding circumstances.

Easy to forget facts when you're summing up, isn't it?

Actually, that the sign is in English just strengthens my views that the political statement he wishes to make is directed at others who may feel the same way as him, and nod to themselves in agreement when they see the sign. It also indicates that he doesn't expect the sign to have an effect besides being provocative.
the same thing can be said with signs that say "God Bless America", a sign of a Cross or Star of David, or a sports team logo...

...and his statements in interviews (including the video one), the sign itself, its placement as seen on the pictures, and the surrounding circumstances. statements like what? please provide the examples.

at the end of the video. he said "if you're reading the sign then you can speak English and what's the problem, and if you can't speak english, then you can't read the sign so again, what's the problem?"

He also said, when his staff has time, they will help those who have a hard time communicating their order. He complains that those people slow the line down but he said he never refused them service.
he also said that there is a chance that the order would not be to the customers satisfaction because of poor communication between the customer and his staff.

so again, indications of fustration and irritation, but no fear and xenophobia.

Easy to forget facts when you're summing up, isn't it? I haven't. now please provide the proof that you just said existed yet won't put forth because "it's your opinion".

I'm sure those who cannot understand english wouldn't understand the sign
This doesn't really make any sense: it's not like a black/white you-understand-English-perfectly/you-don't-know-a-single-word thing. I would understand "HABLA ESPANOL!" to be telling me to speak Spanish, yet I would not be able to come up with a single sentence in Spanish.

This doesn't really make any sense: it's not like a black/white you-understand-English-perfectly/you-don't-know-a-single-word thing. I would understand "HABLA ESPANOL!" to be telling me to speak Spanish, yet I would not be able to come up with a single sentence in Spanish.
ah, but would you understand Kanji? what about sanscrit?

what if the sign said "Orden aquí" would you be offended?
or 'No hay baños públicos'?
or 'Utilizar otra puerta, por favor'?
or even 'Sólo en español, por favor'?


Remember, you don't speak a word of spanish...

Yes, it has already been addressed, fought over, answered and tossed over around the world several times. Some live in an alternate universe, others don´t go to Google for the all pressing questions of their lives and so far, it´s all good.:rolleyes:

Sé hermoso, yo jugaba se ponen al corriente, añadí el no importa cuando vi todas las respuestas.

ah, but would you understand Kanji? what about sanscrit?

what if the sign said "Orden aquí" would you be offended?
or 'No hay baños públicos'?
or 'Utilizar otra puerta, por favor'?
or even 'Sólo en español, por favor'?


Remember, you don't speak a word of spanish...
Huh??? Who ever said I don't speak a word of Spanish? I know several words in Spanish: uno, dos, tres, adios, amigos! I can certainly understand "Solo en espanol" and would know perfectly well that it was intended to exclude and probably insult me. I am certain that there are very few Hispanics in Philadelphia who don't speak one word of English, who understand very well what Geno's sign means, but cannot comply.

Huh??? Who ever said I don't speak a word of Spanish? I know several words in Spanish: uno, dos, tres, adios, amigos! I can certainly understand "Solo en espanol" and would know perfectly well that it was intended to exclude and probably insult me. I am certain that there are very few Hispanics in Philadelphia who don't speak one word of English, who understand very well what Geno's sign means, but cannot comply.ah, so your post...

This doesn't really make any sense: it's not like a black/white you-understand-English-perfectly/you-don't-know-a-single-word thing. I would understand "HABLA ESPANOL!" to be telling me to speak Spanish, yet I would not be able to come up with a single sentence in Spanish.is acutally not true then. your example is only baised on the fact that the person actually does understand some spanish and thus could at least say 'No Habla Espanol'. thanks for playing.

I'm sure those immigrants could at least say "no habla english" and again, Geno's hasn't been proven to have turned anyone away.

and I notice that you are only arguing a 'spanish' side. there are other immigrants, both illegal and legal in the US. some of whom the lettering system is just as foriegn as the language.

the same thing can be said with signs that say "God Bless America", a sign of a Cross or Star of David, or a sports team logo...
Sure, if you'd like to disregarding context.

statements like what? please provide the examples.
OK.
"This was a predominantly Italian neighborhood, and for some reason it's turning Mexican," public policy consultant Deborah Leavy quoted Vento as saying in a recent Daily News column. "They're not speaking the language. It's a big problem, and it's getting worse," Vento said.
Link (http://www.redorbit.com/news/business/536206/free_speech_at_steak_commission_blasts_genos_englishonly_policy/index.html)

at the end of the video. he said "if you're reading the sign then you can speak English and what's the problem, and if you can't speak english, then you can't read the sign so again, what's the problem?"
See earlier posts.

He also said, when his staff has time, they will help those who have a hard time communicating their order. He complains that those people slow the line down but he said he never refused them service.
he also said that there is a chance that the order would not be to the customers satisfaction because of poor communication between the customer and his staff.
Yes, so he doesn't discriminate, he's just making a xenophobic point.

so again, indications of fustration and irritation, but no fear and xenophobia.
That's your opinion. I am of another.

I haven't. now please provide the proof that you just said existed yet won't put forth because "it's your opinion".
See earlier in the thread. I've linked to everything I refer to. I don't know what else you want.

I fail to understand why asking them to speak English if at all possible is unreasonable or xenophobic. All the evidence points to it being a matter of convenience and communication rather than xenophobia. This view is strengthened by the fact that his staff has been willing to help customers with their order if they cannot speak English. He's simply asking customers to do their best to order in English so the line can stay relatively fast.

OK.

Link (http://www.redorbit.com/news/business/536206/free_speech_at_steak_commission_blasts_genos_englishonly_policy/index.html)
"This was a predominantly Italian neighborhood, and for some reason it's turning Mexican," public policy consultant Deborah Leavy quoted Vento as saying in a recent Daily News column. "They're not speaking the language. It's a big problem, and it's getting worse," Vento said. so quick, what's the big problem. the fact that they'er not speaking the language? or that the neighborhood is 'turning mexican'?

here is where one's thought process can be defined. if you said the fact that it's turning mexican, then why are you focused on that since the phrase before 'big problem' is talking about not speaking the language? you want to see him as a Xenophobe. thus the problem HAS to be the growing Mexican population. yet why was the sign in English and not in Spanish?

See earlier posts. I have all your posts below. please show one link/evidence you brought up that I haven't shown that could be him focusing on a language problem and not him being xenophobic.

Yes, so he doesn't discriminate, he's just making a xenophobic point. with a sign in english and not in a language that would target those he would have xenophobic feelings for? even tho he said he and his staff would go out of their way to help a non-english speaker?

That's your opinion. I am of another. Yet I am able to support my opinion with what he said. "it bugs me" "Problems with ordering", no where does he not focus on the language.

See earlier in the thread. I've linked to everything I refer to. I don't know what else you want.
irrifutable proof that he's Xenophobic.

Isn't it sad that Geno's refuses to show respect for the people and the culture in the US by expect people to accomodate them by speaking English...
Seriously??
Others have pointed out the fact that the US have no official language. I'd ask: Why do you think he would feel the need to set up such a sign in the first place? What good does it do?
Yeah, I agree, he had no serious and real reason to put it up. ;)
I think I agree with you.
That's not what the owner himself said:
Evil blogg link (http://michellemalkin.com/2006/05/31/genos-says-speak-english/)
And there's something about the tone and setting...
No customer has, apparently.
Xenophobia, I'd say.
And the Evil Blogg has a link to the original story...
:D
You made me smile, so I made this for you:
[snipped pic]
I guess it was difficult to do a search on the newspaper site the link led to...
Who knows what you might have found - even a video interview (http://www.philly.com/philly/multimedia/12511101.html) with the owner, or updated news (even the latest news (http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/16845211.html).)
Technology is amazing :)
Is it?
It seems like irritation that leads to the owner making what he himself claims is a political statement. And as such it leaves the realm of "irritation".
Linky (http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/12529026.html)
But he doesn't care for the legal immigrants who may not speak English, nor about US citizens who speak other languages either.
They are included in his "Speak English" demand, harmlessly situated over the "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" sign. Hint, hint...
No, it seems like he fears all of those pesky non-English speakers.
I don't see it that way at all. And apparently, neither does the owner.
I don't need to prove it. It's my opinion.
As I - and many others - have said before, he hasn't done that.
It's my impression based on what he says and how he said it, including the wording and placing of the sign.
The sentiment and signal he sends is enough.
I think he's afraid of the "foreigners" and the immigrants. Even if he doesn't act on it and discriminates - which would be an illegal act, mind you - he seeks to make a political statement that he wants people to conform to his ways and he fears that those ways will be a thing of the past by the influx of new people with different languages.
That's my view of it.
Not at all. The sign will allow (if not encourage) the staff to make the statement clear to anyone daring to try to point at what they want.
And besides, what about the ones who can understand what they read but aren't proficient in speaking the language - they'll get it too.
Actually, that the sign is in English just strengthens my views that the political statement he wishes to make is directed at others who may feel the same way as him, and nod to themselves in agreement when they see the sign. It also indicates that he doesn't expect the sign to have an effect besides being provocative.
...and his statements in interviews (including the video one), the sign itself, its placement as seen on the pictures, and the surrounding circumstances.
Easy to forget facts when you're summing up, isn't it?

You can't prove Xenophobia, yet his actions show no indication of Xenophobia, or even any anti-immigrantion feelings. and being against Illegal Immigrants =|= being against Immigrants.

a person who has never turned away a customer, before or after that sign, no matter what their speaking ability is, yet is suddenly xenophobic after posting a sign?

Kinda funny how a lot of people here are against the sign. Just about every single person I've talked to is in support of Geno's. Of course, I live in the Philly area.

Everyone whines, jeez, it's his place let him do what the hell he wants.

Y'all know "wid" isn't English, right? :D

so quick, what's the big problem. the fact that they'er not speaking the language? or that the neighborhood is 'turning mexican'?
It seems to me that both issues weigh on his mind.

here is where one's thought process can be defined. if you said the fact that it's turning mexican, then why are you focused on that since the phrase before 'big problem' is talking about not speaking the language? you want to see him as a Xenophobe. thus the problem HAS to be the growing Mexican population.
I don't want to see him as anything, but I do see the connection between A and B there. It's not hard.

yet why was the sign in English and not in Spanish?
Ask him. I would guess that it's, as I've said, primarily because he wishes to provoke and make a political point aimed at others who don't like that the area is "turning mexican" and that people don't speak English.

I have all your posts below. You must be bored tonight.

please show one link/evidence you brought up that I haven't shown that could be him focusing on a language problem and not him being xenophobic.
It's all about interpretation - and the two may well be connected, no?

with a sign in english and not in a language that would target those he would have xenophobic feelings for? even tho he said he and his staff would go out of their way to help a non-english speaker?
Yes, he doesn't discriminate, he's just making a xenophobic point.

Yet I am able to support my opinion with what he said. "it bugs me" "Problems with ordering", no where does he not focus on the language.
And I'm able to support my opinion with what he said too. Strange, wut?

irrifutable proof that he's Xenophobic.
*Sighs*

Why?

You can't prove Xenophobia,
Nor do I need to.

yet his actions show no indication of Xenophobia, or even any anti-immigrantion feelings. and being against Illegal Immigrants =|= being against Immigrants.
I disagree. I think he's shown many indications of xenophobia, both by his statements and his actions.

a person who has never turned away a customer, before or after that sign, no matter what their speaking ability is, yet is suddenly xenophobic after posting a sign?
No - he suddenly seems to be xenophobic after posting the sign. I would not claim that posting the sign somehow changes the nature of the man, it just exposes him.

You must be bored tonight. kinda. slow day at work. :p

Sé hermoso, yo jugaba se ponen al corriente, añadí el no importa cuando vi todas las respuestas.

Lo sé, Dyakovo. No te preocupes por eso. Además, este argumento surguió cuando ya tú no estabas en línea.;)

kinda. slow day at work. :p

It shows.

Lo sé, Dyakovo. No te preocupes por eso. Además, este argumento surguió cuando ya tú no estabas en línea.;)

surguió = happened/took place, yes?

surguió = happened/took place, yes?

Así es. Muy bien.:)

Así es. Muy bien.:)

The rest of it translated rather strangely (mainly due to sentence structure differences, so I figured I'd ask to make sure...
That plus I knew that it took place while I was "not in line" (see what I mean)

The rest of it translated rather strangely (mainly due to sentence structure differences, so I figured I'd ask to make sure...
That plus I knew that it took place while I was "not in line" (see what I mean)

I see. That last part should´ve translated as you ´not being online´. That´s what I meant. But yeah, the problem with translating from Spanish to English is that, syntaxys-wise, when it comes to sentence structure, both languages differ from each other greatly. To write in Spanish, you have to think in Spanish. Same applies to English.

I see. That last part should´ve translated as you ´not being online´. That´s what I meant. But yeah, the problem with translating from Spanish to English is that, syntaxys-wise, when it comes to sentence structure, both languages differ from each other greatly. To write in Spanish, you have to think in Spanish. Same applies to English.

Well, it helps, for me, that from what I've seen, sentence structure is at the very least very similar between French and Spanish, and while my vocabulary is almost nil at this point, I do remember basically how to arrange the words.

surguió = happened/took place, yes?

See, this is the UK, POST IN ENGLISH for a more efficient debate! It took too long, obviously, so the line of posts got longer! Nooooooooo! :eek:

:p

And we now return you to your regularly scheduled spambating...

Well, it helps, for me that from what I've seen, sentence structure is at the very least very similar between French and Spanish, and while my vocabulary is almost nil at this point, I do remember basically how to arrange the words.

Perhaps Geno should learn from you when it comes to foreign languages.;)

Perhaps Geno should learn from you when it comes to foreign languages.;)

Indeed

See, this is the UK, POST IN ENGLISH

Not where I or Nanatsu are, it isn't.

Not where I or Nanatsu are, it isn't.

The server is in the UK, so you might not be served if you fail to serve the servers language! BEWARE!! You have British on you, and don't even realize it! :eek:

The server is in the UK, so you might not be served if you fail to serve the servers language! BEWARE!! You have British on you, and don't even realize it! :eek:

Oooohhhh, the Brits are out to get me! I´m scared.:rolleyes:

But if me talking to Dyakovo in Spanish bother you so much, I´ll stop. I don´t want to be boinked on the head by one of the mods.:p

It shows.

:p

Oooohhhh, the Brits are out to get me! I´m scared.:rolleyes:
You should be! Remember what happened at the battle of... Um... You know, big place, war time... Eh... The famous guy fought that not so famous guy...

...

You did lose a war to England at one time, right? I mean, it's the only way to explain Ibiza and Costa Del Sol and having to admit so many British tourists every year - it's got to be some kind of punishment, no?

But if me talking to Dyakovo in Spanish bother you so much, I´ll stop.
Nah, I'm just razzing you in the spirit of the thread. By all means, don't let me stop you from your spammy delights :p

I don´t want to be boinked on the head by one of the mods.:p
As long as you don't overdo it, I'm sure they won't mind :)

You should be! Remember what happened at the battle of... Um... You know, big place, war time... Eh... The famous guy fought that not so famous guy...

...

You did lose a war to England at one time, right? I mean, it's the only way to explain Ibiza and Costa Del Sol and having to admit so many British tourists every year - it's got to be some kind of punishment, no?


Nah, I'm just razzing you in the spirit of the thread. By all means, don't let me stop you from your spammy delights :p


As long as you don't overdo it, I'm sure they won't mind :)

Em... ok, but if they come after me, I´ll blame you for it all.
J/K!

Em... ok, but if they come after me, I´ll blame you for it all.
J/K!

Well, I'm prepared if those tricksy Englishmen should come after me, so I say Bring'em on! ;)

:p

Well, I'm prepared if those tricksy Englishmen should come after me, so I say Bring'em on! ;)

:p

BRING IT, BIATCH!
:eek:
Sorry, I just got contaminated by the spirit of war I percieved.:p

But to answer one of your previous questions, sorry for the delay, trust me, I wasn´t evading it, Queen Elizabeth I, that frigid freak, did win against us. She sunk our Spanish Armada. And the Brits gave my country a lot of trouble in the colonies. Plus, British corsaires attacked our ships quite a lot and stole the gold we stole from the Indians, to be historically accurate.:D

here is why i think the speak english sign is okay.

It is only a request.

that being said here is why the restaurant likely put up the sign. If a restaurant is busy such as during the lunch rush it becomes difficult to deal with a non english speaking customers. In the time I could deal with 1 non english speaker i could deal with 3 english speakers. during a rush it could be a hassle.

Indifferent. After all, as a foreigner, I should be expected to learn their language.

I don't think you should be obligated to know more than basic words of a native language when you're just visiting. When you're working in a country, you should learn the native language.

I don't see how this is discrimination. This is simply a business decision. Either the owner of the restaurant can learn Spanish to communicate with this segment of customers, or he can choose not to, because of the time/money aspect.

I went into several Palestinian-owned restaurants while I was in Israel. I spoke English and Hebrew, which they didn't understand. Needless to say, I didn't get served. Why should non-English speakers here expect anything different? :rolleyes:

I don't see how this is discrimination. This is simply a business decision. Either the owner of the restaurant can learn Spanish to communicate with this segment of customers, or he can choose not to, because of the time/money aspect.

I went into several Palestinian-owned restaurants while I was in Israel. I spoke English and Hebrew, which they didn't understand. Needless to say, I didn't get served. Why should non-English speakers here expect anything different? :rolleyes:

Actually, it's not needless to say. I find it quite strange, seeing as how I, for example, always got served when I was in China and tried to order food from people who didn't speak English while I myself didn't speak a word of Chinese.

I've never had any trouble ordering where I couldn't verbally communicate with the staff. Not once.

Maybe it was just you?