NationStates Jolt Archive

I recently found out that in Australia, that suicide is four times more common for men than women.

Why do you think this is?

Some information can be seen at:
http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/a61b65ae88ebf976ca256def00724cde?OpenDocument
http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/a61b65ae88ebf976ca256def00724cde?OpenDocument

What's the suicide rate in your country, and do more women or men commit suicide?

Of course it is. Living with women will drive you to it.

Suicide rate in the US is higher for men too I believe. Though women are more likely to attempt it, men are more likely to succeed.

they often say with depression, its common to assume the disease is more prevalent in women as there are more reported cases. however, women tend to talk about their problems more and as such are able to seek help, and end up on the books as another female depression.

following this, its logical to assume men who don't get help, don't talk about problems, or get support, will off themselves with greater frequency.


i guess.

Of course it is. Living with women will drive you to it.

Why do men die first? This is a question that has gone unanswered for centuries, but, now we know. It requires a bit of explanation, first:

If you put a woman on a pedestal and try to protect her from the rat race ... you're a male chauvinist. If you stay home and do the housework ... you're a pansy. If you work too hard ... there's never any time for her. If you don't work enough ... you're a good-for-nothing bum. If she has a boring repetitive job with low pay ... this is exploitation. If you have a boring repetitive job with low pay ... you should get off your lazy behind and find something better. If you get a promotion ahead of her ... that is favoritism. If she gets a job ahead of you ... its equal opportunity.

If you mention how nice she looks ... its sexual harassment. If you keep quiet ... its male indifference. If you cry ... you're a wimp. If you don't ... you're an insensitive bastard. If you make a decision without consulting her ... you're a chauvinist.

If she makes a decision without consulting you, she's a liberated woman. If you ask her to do something she doesn't enjoy ... that's domination. If SHE asks you ... it's a favor. If you appreciate the female form and frilly underwear ... you're a pervert. If you don't ... you're gay.

If you like a woman to shave her legs and keep in shape ... you're sexist. If you don't ... you're unromantic. If you try to keep yourself in shape ... you're vain. If you don't ... you're a slob. If you buy her flowers ... you're after something. If you don't ... you're not thoughtful. If you're proud of your achievements ... you're full of yourself. If you don't ... you're not ambitious. If she has a headache ... she's tired. If you have a headache ... you don't love her anymore. If you want it too often ... you're oversexed. If you don't ... there must be someone else.

Why do men die first? Because they want to.

I reserve the right to distance myself from the above post. You just reminded me of it. :p

they often say with depression, its common to assume the disease is more prevalent in women as there are more reported cases. however, women tend to talk about their problems more and as such are able to seek help, and end up on the books as another female depression.
following this, its logical to assume men who don't get help, don't talk about problems, or get support, will off themselves with greater frequency.

i guess.

Entirely true.

I recall reading that, while suicide attempts are just about as common for both sexes, women are more likely to attempt suicide by overdosing -- which can be reversed if caught in time -- and men seem to prefer more instantly lethal methods, like shooting, hanging, and carbon monoxide poisoning. Hence, more men actually die in suicide attempts than women, or something. I don't feel like searching for proof at the moment.

Suicide rate in the US is higher for men too I believe. Though women are more likely to attempt it, men are more likely to succeed.Men do it to die, women do it to gain attention.

Why do you think this is?

My first thought was "women."

I agree with my distinguished collegues here. Women are the main cause of male suicides. The fix is obviously more sex.

Men do it to die, women do it to gain attention.



Do I really need to point out whats wrong with this statement?



Tell me, who the fuck are you to make such over arching general statements about why a woman might be depressed enough to attempt to take her own life?

Do I really need to point out whats wrong with this statement?



Tell me, who the fuck are you to make such over arching general statements about why a woman might be depressed enough to attempt to take her own life?

Ah, come KoL, this is just standard UB...

I recall reading that, while suicide attempts are just about as common for both sexes, women are more likely to attempt suicide by overdosing -- which can be reversed if caught in time -- and men seem to prefer more instantly lethal methods, like shooting, hanging, and carbon monoxide poisoning. Hence, more men actually die in suicide attempts than women, or something. I don't feel like searching for proof at the moment.

This is also what I've been taught, with the small difference that more women do attempt suicide than men. A fear of pain might also be involved---this is just conjecture, not data. Women are also less likely to own firearms.

This is also what I've been taught, with the small difference that more women do attempt suicide than men.

Bingo. Women and girls are more likely to engage in suicidal ideation, while boys and men are far more likely to actually go through with killing themselves (seven times more likely, according to some estimates).

Suicide rate in the US is higher for men too I believe. Though women are more likely to attempt it, men are more likely to succeed.

IIRC men tend to choose methods that one can't back out of like jumping off a tall building where as women are more likely to choose a means where you have time to change your mind (like taking a bottle of pills and then calling an ambulance after having second thoughts).

I don't know. I don't know why there are gender differences in suicide rates, maybe it's because...no maybe not.

Do I really need to point out whats wrong with this statement?Yes.

IIRC men tend to choose methods that one can't back out of like jumping off a tall building where as women are more likely to choose a means where you have time to change your mind (like taking a bottle of pills and then calling an ambulance after having second thoughts).

Yeah, that's what they said in AP Psychology last year when we talked about this.

Men do it to die, women do it to gain attention.

Zing! And I disagree -- depending on the method and how it's done, most those who attempt are in need of some kind of attention, regardless of gender. Men can be drama queens, too.

Do I really need to point out whats wrong with this statement?

Yes you do. Don't expect us to understand exactly why it angers you. It could be anything from sexism to general peeve at the presumptuous nature of it. Hell, it could even be that it's not harsh enough. Fill us in, pardner.

Tell me, who the fuck are you to make such over arching general statements about why a woman might be depressed enough to attempt to take her own life?

He's United Beleriand. He's perfectly welcome to his overarching generalizations, just as you are welcome to say that they're fulla shit. Either way, I'm pretty sure he knows who he is.

Because :

a) Men are more likely to keep their negative emotions trapped up until some kind of breaking point.

b) Women tend towards putting in a pretty weak effort, suicide-wise, taking pills or whatever and then calling an ambulance when they don't really feel like dying (one of my more irritating female friends did this about 13 times or something, basically because she craves the attention it gives her. This does my head in, but there we go).

c) Men tend towards fairly decisive measures such as shooting themselves, or hanging themselves when no guns are available, or (rarely) jumping off buildings, all of which are basically going to polish you off with little to no recourse to "oh good, everyone I know is telling me to stop, so I will" kind of sentiments.

Penises are attention whores which never leave people alone. Living with one is difficult enough, but having one attached to you is torture. They always want someone to serve them. Even if one spends one's whole day placating this idiotic organ, it becomes disgruntled soon afterward, possibly embarrassing you in public. Then a feeling of worthlessness sets in; suicide follows.

Ah, come KoL, this is just standard UB...

That doesnt mean he gets a free pass. When someone says stupid and offensive bullshit, Im going to tell them where their head is.

Yes.

If you use those two things in the middle of your face, I addressed what was wrong with your offensive generalisations, mainly that it was chauvenistic bull without any sort of backing.

That doesnt mean he gets a free pass. When someone says stupid and offensive bullshit, Im going to tell them where their head is.

I'm pretty sure he knows where his head is... :D

That doesnt mean he gets a free pass. When someone says stupid and offensive bullshit, Im going to tell them where their head is.If I weren't so lazy I'd point out the points myself.

Because :

a) Men are more likely to keep their negative emotions trapped up until some kind of breaking point.

b) Women tend towards putting in a pretty weak effort, suicide-wise, taking pills or whatever and then calling an ambulance when they don't really feel like dying (one of my more irritating female friends did this about 13 times or something, basically because she craves the attention it gives her. This does my head in, but there we go).

c) Men tend towards fairly decisive measures such as shooting themselves, or hanging themselves when no guns are available, or (rarely) jumping off buildings, all of which are basically going to polish you off with little to no recourse to "oh good, everyone I know is telling me to stop, so I will" kind of sentiments.

If I weren't so lazy I'd point out the points myself.

So, one persons personal experiance means women do it for attention? Really? Well, lets counter that with the same evidence.


In my experiance, I know five people who attempted suicide. Two females, three males. The two females were genuinly depressed and have been diagnosed with severe mental issues, one of them having PTSD. In fact, in one of those cases the only reason they survived was because someone literally kicked down her bathroom door and found her passed out with pills and called an ambulance.

Two of the guys were drama queens who just wanted attention. In fact, one of them gave weekly suicide threats until eventually we all stopped giving him attention, and he never made the threats again.

The last guy actually did kill himself, so it clearly wasnt for attention.

So, your personal experiance is invalid as it has been countered with another peice of personal experiance.

So, now we're back at square one. Prove your chauvenistic bull.

Because :

c) Men tend towards fairly decisive measures such as shooting themselves, or hanging themselves when no guns are available, or (rarely) jumping off buildings, all of which are basically going to polish you off with little to no recourse to "oh good, everyone I know is telling me to stop, so I will" kind of sentiments.

He went to drown himself in the pond then changed his mind and swam out. Isn't that like a Man?

Bear in mind ponds don't have viewing galleries.

its male culture and the same reason the prison population is grossly out of proportion

male cultural basis on mutilation, killing and rape FTW!

SNIP

calm down honey bun this is the Internet

also:

Adolescents in the UK
A different set of problems appears to lead to attempted suicide by adolescents in the UK. Diekstra (1985) proposed that an increase in the rates of suicide and suicide attempts among the young in Europe could be attributed to the interplay of three sets of factors: the socialisation of a specific problem-solving behaviour repertoire; socio-economic conditions; and attitudes towards suicide. Certainly, all these factors will be equally applicable to adolescents of Asian and other ethnic minority extraction.

(Hawton et al 1982a) found that adolescents who take overdoses differ markedly in terms of factors concerning their families, especially their relationships with their parents, and in their medical and psychiatric histories, the nature of the overdoses and the problems that they were facing at the time. In a consecutive sample of 50 (White) adolescents admitted to hospital, 45 were girls (Hawton et al, 1982b). The commonest difficulties identified were problems in relationships with parents and boyfriends, or at school.

link:http://apt.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/8/6/418

and I can also throw my personal experience in, not that it matters

however light at the tunnels end:

Although the number of young men committing suicide has increased over the past couple of decades, suicides among women have fallen.

It may be women are better at expressing and dealing with their distress. However, the fall has also been attributed to suicide prevention strategies, improved social conditions and changes that have affected the way people try to commit suicide, such as selling only limited amounts of paracetamol at a time (reducing the risk of impulsive overdose) and catalytic converters on cars (making the use of exhaust fumes more difficult).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/womens_health/mind_suicide.shtml

Tell me, who the fuck are you to make such over arching general statements about why a woman might be depressed enough to attempt to take her own life?

The same person who makes such overarching general statements that men are more likely to kill themselves than women.

It's kind of like saying that having a penis means you're more likely to kill yourself than someone without one.

Suicide rate in the US is higher for men too I believe. Though women are more likely to attempt it, men are more likely to succeed.
Yep. Typical female trait. Try and fail, that is. If you want something done right, make sure a man does it.

So, one persons personal experiance means women do it for attention? Really? Well, lets counter that with the same evidence.


In my experiance, I know five people who attempted suicide. Two females, three males. The two females were genuinly depressed and have been diagnosed with severe mental issues, one of them having PTSD. In fact, in one of those cases the only reason they survived was because someone literally kicked down her bathroom door and found her passed out with pills and called an ambulance.

Two of the guys were drama queens who just wanted attention. In fact, one of them gave weekly suicide threats until eventually we all stopped giving him attention, and he never made the threats again.

The last guy actually did kill himself, so it clearly wasnt for attention.

So, your personal experiance is invalid as it has been countered with another peice of personal experiance.

So, now we're back at square one. Prove your chauvinistic bull.

Okay, UB used his personal experience, you used yours. You both have your opinions, which is all that either post is. I wouldn't trust either of you to lead a discussion on the topic, but that's only my opinion. Neat, huh? We've all got opinions.

RhynoDD;13539765']It's kind of like saying that having a penis means you're more likely to kill yourself than someone without one.
Actually true, though.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7219232.stm

"About 900 young men take their own lives each year, and they account for about 75% of all suicides in this age group"

Yep. Typical female trait. Try and fail, that is. If you want something done right, make sure a man does it.

So long as the something in question is destructive, then sure.

That doesnt mean he gets a free pass. When someone says stupid and offensive bullshit, Im going to tell them where their head is.

You'd think he'd be able to tell by the smell . . .

Yep. Typical female trait. Try and fail, that is. If you want something done right, make sure a man does it.

Women tend to use pills and other absolutely bullshit methods. Men just shoot themselves. Hell when I was suicidal I'd decided the optimal way to do it was a knife to the heart. Good 15 seconds later I'm out cold and a few minutes later I'm dead.

Guns will get the job done, but they're messy.

IIRC men tend to choose methods that one can't back out of like jumping off a tall building where as women are more likely to choose a means where you have time to change your mind (like taking a bottle of pills and then calling an ambulance after having second thoughts).

Pansies. Every one. If you're really going to commit suicide, the way to do it should be in a grandiose and awesome way, like jumping off a skyscraper in Times Square or slamming a top fuel dragster into a wall at full speed loaded with fuel.

Or you should at least accomplish something with your death, like the Buddhist monk who set himself on fire to oppose the Vietnam War.

b) Women tend towards putting in a pretty weak effort, suicide-wise, taking pills or whatever and then calling an ambulance when they don't really feel like dying (one of my more irritating female friends did this about 13 times or something, basically because she craves the attention it gives her. This does my head in, but there we go).


I'm sorry your friend is a drama queen and it gets on your nerves, but don't generalize it to the rest of humanity, okay. Many people complete a suicide attempt because no one takes the signs of their depression seriously. My aunt tried to commit suicide twice with pills, but survived both times. Three years ago she opened her head with a sawed-off shotgun.

Women tend to use pills and other absolutely bullshit methods. Men just shoot themselves. Hell when I was suicidal I'd decided the optimal way to do it was a knife to the heart. Good 15 seconds later I'm out cold and a few minutes later I'm dead.

Guns will get the job done, but they're messy.
A knife isn't? And wouldn't it be a little more difficult to locate your heart accurately though all those ribs? Mmmmm ribs... Sorry, I got sidetracked.

How messy can a .22 LR bullet into the brain be? I'm not sure it would even come out the other side.

An Hero, lol.

I'm sorry your friend is a drama queen and it gets on your nerves, but don't generalize it to the rest of humanity, okay. Many people complete a suicide attempt because no one takes the signs of their depression seriously. My aunt tried to commit suicide twice with pills, but survived both times. Three years ago she opened her head with a sawed-off shotgun.
3 of my great grandparents killed themselves and one of my closest friends suffered massive kidney damage after taking 40 paracaetamol. I know how it feels.

I recently found out that in Australia, that suicide is four times more common for men than women.

Why do you think this is?

Some information can be seen at:
http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/a61b65ae88ebf976ca256def00724cde?OpenDocument
http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/a61b65ae88ebf976ca256def00724cde?OpenDocument

What's the suicide rate in your country, and do more women or men commit suicide?


Usually these studies only measure the success rate. They only prove that men are better at it, not that they attempt it more often.

Usually these studies only measure the success rate. They only prove that men are better at it, not that they attempt it more often.

What!?! How dare you call women incompetent!?!

just kidding...

Yep. Typical female trait. Try and fail, that is. If you want something done right, make sure a man does it.

Now we have two trolls.

Okay, UB used his personal experience, you used yours. You both have your opinions, which is all that either post is. I wouldn't trust either of you to lead a discussion on the topic, but that's only my opinion. Neat, huh? We've all got opinions.

I think your missing the point of my posts. Im not trying to prove anything other than UB is full of it when he says women do it for attention, as if being a drama queen was some how gender biased.

I think your missing the point of my posts. Im not trying to prove anything other than UB is full of it when he says women do it for attention, as if being a drama queen was some how gender biased.

Drama-------QUEEN. Yes, it is gender based.

Women are better at communicating problems vs men? Women tend to get help easier because of this. That would be my guess.

Drama-------QUEEN. Yes, it is gender based.

Ok, just for your sake kiddo, Ill now refer to it as a Drama King/Queen or a Drama Noble, how about that?

Ok, just for your sake kiddo, Ill now refer to it as a Drama King/Queen or a Drama Noble, how about that?

I'm touched you care so much for me butch.

Suicide rate in the US is higher for men too I believe. Though women are more likely to attempt it, men are more likely to succeed.

We win! ... I mean ohhh ...

How messy can a .22 LR bullet into the brain be? I'm not sure it would even come out the other side.

Nope. It is the caliber of choice for assassins as it bounces around the skull many times, tearing through your brain in the process, and doesn't have an exit wound so it's harder to find the shot trajectory. Tiny hole on the way in, lots of mess inside, bit of blood, and that's it.

Drama-------QUEEN. Yes, it is gender based.

The male version is "pussy" or "fag".

Guns will get the job done, but they're messy.

How considerate of you to...consider.. the cleanup job that your demise would entail.

RhynoDD;13540805']The male version is "pussy" or "fag".

It's a fact, and a fairly interesting one toom I don't however, see how this relates to what I said.

Men do it to die, women do it to gain attention.

I know that most of you disagree but.. word! (In most cases). When a woman actually dies it's an accident. For a man it's an accident when he doesn't die.

It's a fact, and a fairly interesting one toom I don't however, see how this relates to what I said.

Yes, Toom-Cook multiplication is fairly interesting. I don't see how it relates to what you said either. I don't think suicide and gender have much to do with multiplying large integers.

How considerate of you to...consider.. the cleanup job that your demise would entail.

If I ever take my own life, I'll make sure it's nice and slow. That way, I'll have time to clean up most of the mess before I die.

If I ever take my own life, I'll make sure it's nice and slow. That way, I'll have time to clean up most of the mess before I die.

I'd recommend something in the bathtub then. Maybe a nice lavender bubble-bath and a sharp blade... so long as you can pull the plug before you kick the bucket, cleanup should be relatively easy.

Use a robot... (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,339213,00.html)

Not that it's clean. But it's cool.

RhynoDD;13540878']Yes, Toom-Cook multiplication is fairly interesting. I don't see how it relates to what you said either. I don't think suicide and gender have much to do with multiplying large integers.

Meant too, not toom.

Meant too, not toom.

Ah. Well that clears that up, then.

If I ever take my own life, I'll make sure it's nice and slow. That way, I'll have time to clean up most of the mess before I die.

Once I cut my thumb open on a can of pineapple (I was really drunk) and tried to clean up the blood, but I was cleaning it with the hand that was bleeding... it's a lot harder than it looks!

I know that most of you disagree but.. word! (In most cases). When a woman actually dies it's an accident. For a man it's an accident when he doesn't die.

When my aunt killed herself, she planned the whole thing weeks ahead of time. She planned to use a handgun, but couldn't get it to fire for some reason, so she used a sawed-off shotgun instead. They know this because later they found the handgun. She'd forgotten to take the safety off, which is why it wouldn't fire, but she'd squeezed so hard she'd managed to chamber a round anyway. The shotgun accomplished the job, though. Does that sound like an accident?

I recently found out that in Australia, that suicide is four times more common for men than women.

Why do you think this is?

Some information can be seen at:
http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/a61b65ae88ebf976ca256def00724cde?OpenDocument
http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/a61b65ae88ebf976ca256def00724cde?OpenDocument

What's the suicide rate in your country, and do more women or men commit suicide?

This is virtually universal, and has been known for, at least, decades. The reasons tend to vary though. In the US it's usually a matter of methods. If a man decides to kill himself he'll shoot himself or jump in front of a train. Women tend to take pills and alcohol, and then get rushed to the hospital.

What!?! How dare you call women incompetent!?! [white text]


Well, in this particular field, I'd rather be incompetent, thanks. <.<

This is virtually universal, and has been known for, at least, decades. The reasons tend to vary though. In the US it's usually a matter of methods. If a man decides to kill himself he'll shoot himself or jump in front of a train. Women tend to take pills and alcohol, and then get rushed to the hospital.

Obviously, women lack the testicular fortitude to do such things.

Drama-------QUEEN. Yes, it is gender based.

RhynoDD;13540805']The male version is "pussy" or "fag".

To be fair, I have used the term 'Drama Queen' in reference to men as well. It almost works better that way.

Men do it to die, women do it to gain attention.

I'll be the first to admit that I usually don't expect a lot but... the fuck? This is just beyond stupid.

they often say with depression, its common to assume the disease is more prevalent in women as there are more reported cases. however, women tend to talk about their problems more and as such are able to seek help, and end up on the books as another female depression.

following this, its logical to assume men who don't get help, don't talk about problems, or get support, will off themselves with greater frequency.

i guess.

I think women are encouraged to speak about their problems more as well, and the media (and society... at least my society) sees mental illness as more of a female thing. So many people here don't even realise men can have anorexia or depression: if someone's emaciated and sad, he's either a "scrawny" or "naturally thin" and "gay" or "a pussy". Whereas a lot of girls I know who don't seem to even have depression have seen psychologists and have been on antidepressents. I feel like men have been completely forgotten. Breast cancer research is funded much more than prostate cancer here, and at a football game they had a giant woman on the field made of women in pink shirts supporting breast cancer. The majority of the crowd were men, except the "women's issue" is more imporant than the "men's issue". Women are targeted daily by advertising to have mamograms, but if a man gets a prostate exam, it's "weird". :(

I reserve the right to distance myself from the above post. You just reminded me of it. :p

"Why do men die first? This is a question that has gone unanswered for centuries, but, now we know. It requires a bit of explanation, first:

If you put a woman on a pedestal and try to protect her from the rat race ... you're a male chauvinist. If you stay home and do the housework ... you're a pansy. If you work too hard ... there's never any time for her. If you don't work enough ... you're a good-for-nothing bum. If she has a boring repetitive job with low pay ... this is exploitation. If you have a boring repetitive job with low pay ... you should get off your lazy behind and find something better. If you get a promotion ahead of her ... that is favoritism. If she gets a job ahead of you ... its equal opportunity.

If you mention how nice she looks ... its sexual harassment. If you keep quiet ... its male indifference. If you cry ... you're a wimp. If you don't ... you're an insensitive bastard. If you make a decision without consulting her ... you're a chauvinist.

If she makes a decision without consulting you, she's a liberated woman. If you ask her to do something she doesn't enjoy ... that's domination. If SHE asks you ... it's a favor. If you appreciate the female form and frilly underwear ... you're a pervert. If you don't ... you're gay.

If you like a woman to shave her legs and keep in shape ... you're sexist. If you don't ... you're unromantic. If you try to keep yourself in shape ... you're vain. If you don't ... you're a slob. If you buy her flowers ... you're after something. If you don't ... you're not thoughtful. If you're proud of your achievements ... you're full of yourself. If you don't ... you're not ambitious. If she has a headache ... she's tired. If you have a headache ... you don't love her anymore. If you want it too often ... you're oversexed. If you don't ... there must be someone else.

Why do men die first? Because they want to."

Well, I agree with that excerpt, in a sense, but I don't think it's entirely women's fault. I think in the last few decades men haven't been allowed to be men. I can't stand it when girls think whistling is sexual harrasment, and I also can't stand boys who think groping a girl is okay. There needs to be a balance, and feminism can't go so far that women have more rights than men. We should be equal. I think men these days struggle so much at school and in society...and the excerpt is kind of right, really.


Men do it to die, women do it to gain attention.

Maybe you could try it someday. :rolleyes:

I agree with my distinguished collegues here. Women are the main cause of male suicides. The fix is obviously more sex.

If men continue to ignore the issue by making funny comments, it's never going to get better. The fix isn't more sex.

This is also what I've been taught, with the small difference that more women do attempt suicide than men. A fear of pain might also be involved---this is just conjecture, not data. Women are also less likely to own firearms.

In Australia, most people don't have firearms, and there's still more male suicides.

Because :

a) Men are more likely to keep their negative emotions trapped up until some kind of breaking point.

Well, women do that too, but men aren't as encouraged to seek help.

b) Women tend towards putting in a pretty weak effort, suicide-wise, taking pills or whatever and then calling an ambulance when they don't really feel like dying (one of my more irritating female friends did this about 13 times or something, basically because she craves the attention it gives her. This does my head in, but there we go).

Uh, no. Don't base your entire opinion on one girl. Taking pills still isn't exactly "weak". Most girls I've known who have ODed haven't called the ambulance themselves, either. Their friends or parents have found them and called the ambulance.

[QUOUTE]c) Men tend towards fairly decisive measures such as shooting themselves, or hanging themselves when no guns are available, or (rarely) jumping off buildings, all of which are basically going to polish you off with little to no recourse to "oh good, everyone I know is telling me to stop, so I will" kind of sentiments.[/QUOTE]

Do you have any evidence of this, out of interest? Someone said earlier that women are more likely to attempt it, but I won't believe that until I see proof.




In my experiance, I know five people who attempted suicide. Two females, three males. The two females were genuinly depressed and have been diagnosed with severe mental issues, one of them having PTSD. In fact, in one of those cases the only reason they survived was because someone literally kicked down her bathroom door and found her passed out with pills and called an ambulance.

Two of the guys were drama queens who just wanted attention. In fact, one of them gave weekly suicide threats until eventually we all stopped giving him attention, and he never made the threats again.

The last guy actually did kill himself, so it clearly wasnt for attention.

So, your personal experiance is invalid as it has been countered with another peice of personal experiance.

So, now we're back at square one. Prove your chauvenistic bull.

I don't think being a "drama queen wanting attention" means that their suicide attempts weren't valid though. Although their problems may seem more "petty", the very fact that they'd try to kill themselves for attention is indicative of some sort of mental problem.

Yep. Typical female trait. Try and fail, that is. If you want something done right, make sure a man does it.

It's boys like you that give men as whole a bad name.

Women tend to use pills and other absolutely bullshit methods. Men just shoot themselves. Hell when I was suicidal I'd decided the optimal way to do it was a knife to the heart. Good 15 seconds later I'm out cold and a few minutes later I'm dead.

Guns will get the job done, but they're messy.

Your logic fails.

In Australia the vast majority of people do not own guns, so I assume the majority of male suicides didn't involve firearms.

I'm sorry your friend is a drama queen and it gets on your nerves, but don't generalize it to the rest of humanity, okay. Many people complete a suicide attempt because no one takes the signs of their depression seriously. My aunt tried to commit suicide twice with pills, but survived both times. Three years ago she opened her head with a sawed-off shotgun.

:(

Now we have two trolls.

Sadly.

Women are better at communicating problems vs men? Women tend to get help easier because of this. That would be my guess.

I think that they're also encouraged to get help more than men are.

Once I cut my thumb open on a can of pineapple (I was really drunk) and tried to clean up the blood, but I was cleaning it with the hand that was bleeding... it's a lot harder than it looks!

My leg was severely cut once: it flooded the entire balcony and took two guys an hour to clean it up.

My uncle killed himself with a pistol. His children were 9 and 12 years old at the time.

I generally think of myself as a person of good humor, but I got slightly ill when I saw the number of people whose first response to this topic was to make lame sexist jokes.

I have decided to tell myself that this behavior is like the nervous giggle that one sometimes lets out in the face of a horribly unpleasant subject, because the alternative is just too repulsive.

My uncle killed himself because his entire childhood was filled with the message that boys do not ever, EVER, have feelings. My mother, a PhD psychologist, is pretty certain that her brother was clinically depressed from the time he was in high school. But he never sought help or therapy because he was taught that real men don't. He couldn't ask for help, so when his depression became too much for him to handle alone he shot himself.

Suicide is a serious subject. If you're going to make jokes about it, at least make them good jokes.

Drama-------QUEEN. Yes, it is gender based.
Which is why wimpy men are called "pussies," right?

You're almost right, though. It IS gender based, in the sense that our culture still perpetuates the idea that being called a "woman" or a "girl" or a "queen" is inherently demeaning. That's why there's no popular usage of "Drama King." The point of that label is to insult somebody, and if you want to insult a boy you call him a girl. Because what could be worse than being a girl?

Because what could be worse than being a girl?

Being a blind, mentally retarded girl with no boobs.

Because what could be worse than being a girl?

Catching cooties from a girl, of course. You'd be the laughingstock of the playground.

I once heard from someone in the mental health field that the fact that suicide is most common among young men is no longer accurate - that in fact the age has been increasing, so there's a cohort of high-suicide-risk males advancing through the age brackets. I'm not sure if it's true or not, however - for all the reasons stated it makes sense to me that young men would commit suicide the most often.

Maybe you could try it someday. :rolleyes:

Please be careful with statements like this - they add nothing to the debate and are not really the sort of thing we wish to encourage.

Which is why wimpy men are called "pussies," right?

You're almost right, though. It IS gender based, in the sense that our culture still perpetuates the idea that being called a "woman" or a "girl" or a "queen" is inherently demeaning. That's why there's no popular usage of "Drama King." The point of that label is to insult somebody, and if you want to insult a boy you call him a girl. Because what could be worse than being a girl?

It's not demeaning to be called a girl. It's demeaning for a guy to be called one, since the traits that are traditionally associated with femininity are essentially the opposite of the traits that are traditionally associated with masculinity.

Perhaps this is derogatory to women in a powerful way. However I'd argue that it's a double-edged sword and hurts men in a way too. Whether a women stays in her traditional role or not, it's cool because she's empowering herself. She can stay or "go up a level" in society's opinion. But men don't have anywhere to go but "down".

I think part of the problem is expectations. You'll notice if you'll look in to those stats closer, suicide rates are highest for the people in the demographic who are the "privilged few".

I'm a WASP. Well, swap protestant with atheist. But I'm an Australian white male, who had a university education. I'm 33. By now, I should have my 1st 10 million, and be a CEO, or retired in the Bahamas, or whatever. In short, I should be a god.

The reality is that probably less than 1% of WASPs have the life they are "promised". This means that the WASP crowd has a large sense of failure. This then ties in to the "Men don't talk about feeling, especially about feelings of failure" and ramps up the suicide rate.

For the record. I'm quite laid back (except for my political rants) and don't get worried or stressed much, so this isn't a personal anecdote, or the like. It is a theory from someone with no psych training, making an uneducated guess.

I would also like to point out that it is generally accepted as being insulting to tell a girl that she looks mannish.

This is because women are not supposed to look like men.

Men are not supposed to act like women. When they do we call them pussies. Because they are acting as if they have one.

Also note, gay guys are not always insulted by this. They are, however, very often disgusted, as many are afraid of vagoos.



Fear the vaj.

It's not demeaning to be called a girl. It's demeaning for a guy to be called one, since the traits that are traditionally associated with femininity are essentially the opposite of the traits that are traditionally associated with masculinity.

No, it's demeaning for pretty much anybody, because the traits associated with femininity just happen to be traits that our culture considers shitty.

Why is "you throw like a girl" an insult? Because "girls" throw like crap.

Why is "you're crying like a little girl" an insult? Because "girls" are wimps.

Why do drill sarges and football coaches love to chew out their troops/players by calling them "ladies" or "girls"? Because ladies and girls are wimpy, weak, and otherwise lame.

The only reason these insults are more stinging when applied to men is because men are supposed to be better. Women and girls are "allowed" to suck because they're viewed as inherently less-than, so telling a woman she sucks isn't really an insult...why, women suck by definition!


Perhaps this is derogatory to women in a powerful way.

Yep.


However I'd argue that it's a double-edged sword and hurts men in a way too. Whether a women stays in her traditional role or not, it's cool because she's empowering herself.

These days, anything a woman does is empowerful, because empowerment is a marketing gimmick. A commercial I saw recently insisted that their cleaning products are empowering, yet for some reason the commercial only showed women cleaning up after men and children. It's almost as if "empowering" doesn't really have fuckall to do with the power that women have (or don't have)...


She can stay or "go up a level" in society's opinion. But men don't have anywhere to go but "down".
Yes, that's true. Because, see, women start out at the bottom, what with them being female and all. They can't lose status that they didn't have to begin with.

Men, meanwhile, have status they can lose.

And yes, patriarchy hurts men, too. All the stupid sexist attempts at jokes in this thread are glowing examples of this. Being a woman is seen as such a horrible, contemptible thing that men must do everything in their power to avoid any taint of woman-ness or any suggestion that they may have "feminine" qualities (like, say, emotions). Men must defend their masculinity at all costs, even if it means they can't get much-needed psychological help, because anything is better than being perceived as "feminine."

Also, for the record, suicide rates rise with age, peaking at 40. 40 year old guy is much more likely to kill himself than a 14 year old girl.


Unless that's the blind, mentally retarded girl with no boobs. She might be higher...

Well women actually attempt it more. Its just that men are more like to use methods that work, ie shotgun to the head while women use methods that dont. Like pills or halfassing wrist cutting. Pretty simple reason.

Because ladies and girls are wimpy, weak, and otherwise lame.

At least you can admit it.

Also they can't drive.

At least you can admit it.

Also they can't drive.Black people eat fried chicken.

Mexicans are lazy.

Jews are greedy.

Whew, all this laughing is making my sides hurt.

Black people eat fried chicken.

Mexicans are lazy.

Jews are greedy.

There's this KFC down the road. I always feel like I'm going to get shanked when I go there. Also, the service at every KFC I've been to has always sucked. Maybe Mexicans are working in the back...

Whew, all this laughing is making my sides hurt.

Apparently I'm hilarious. I should do stand-up.

Black people eat fried chicken.

Mexicans are lazy.

Jews are greedy.

Whew, all this laughing is making my sides hurt.

How it is that you somehow turn ever thread into somehow anti-woman which you must cry about how women arent treated fairly? Men just get the job done when comes to suicide, not saying its a good thing, but thats the way it is. Get over it/

Why is "you throw like a girl" an insult? Because "girls" throw like crap.

Why do drill sarges and football coaches love to chew out their troops/players by calling them "ladies" or "girls"? Because ladies and girls are wimpy, weak, and otherwise lame.
Here's a biology lesson. Men, on average are stronger than women. So in the testosterone fueled worlds of sports, calling them ladies or girls is relevant as an insult, as girls, in elite sports especially, are physically weaker.

If I'm wrong here, please explain why we have men and women's sport segregated. A n example Why not have 1 big US tennis open? We could solve the whole sexist prize money dispute right now. Just add the prize pool together, and do a draw where men and women can compete against each other.

This kind of behaviour shouldn't be used, as insults shouldn't be a motivational tool, but if insults were a good motivational too, "you hit like a girl" is a complete winner.


Yes, that's true. Because, see, women start out at the bottom, what with them being female and all. They can't lose status that they didn't have to begin with.
Bush's daughters have more status, than a Male Liberian peasant. Class is what status is about now, more than gender.

How it is that you somehow turn ever thread into somehow anti-woman which you must cry about how women arent treated fairly?

Feel free to add me to your ignore list if you don't want to read what I have to say.


Men just get the job done when comes to suicide, not saying its a good thing, but thats the way it is. Get over it/
Um, no? I'm not interested in "getting over it" when it comes to people killing themselves. I'd rather help reduce the number of people who kill themselves, which can be accomplished in part by identifying problems and contributing factors to why people kill themselves.

This is virtually universal, and has been known for, at least, decades. The reasons tend to vary though. In the US it's usually a matter of methods. If a man decides to kill himself he'll shoot himself or jump in front of a train. Women tend to take pills and alcohol, and then get rushed to the hospital.

The two people who succeeded at suicide by jumping in front of a train were both women. And, neither gave any clues or left any note.

I question the whole "rate" of suicide attempts/failures. ALL failures, especially of the less lethal methods, are reported as such, nor do they receive hospitalization. I know in my case, I tried 3 times as a young teen - once with diabetes medications, once with heart medications, and once with a knife to the wrists. The medications, of which I took a 30 day supply of for a diabetes/heart patient, had me wake up and feel like I had a hangover. The knife - just made a mess, but I probably didn't lose THAT much blood. Parents never took me to the doctor, for reasons related to MY reason for attempting suicide, so it was never reported.

The "rate" of suicide attempts are only going to register for those who are somehow "helped" at the last second. Those who are not "helped" don't count. Some "accidents", especially auto accidents, are suicides or suicide attempts, but are not reported that way.

The people I know who have tried and failed with such things as pills and alcohol have been a mixture of men and women. In all of those cases, they arranged it so that someone would be home with them when they tried, and they didn't just go to bed, but were up wandering around in a drugged stupor, and someone called 911. My great-grandmother and a cousin-by-marriage, both women, succeeded with overdoses of pills - but both were cancer patients and both SERIOUSLY wanted out of the suffering caused by the cancer.

Then, there are the drama queens (male and female) who are suicidal on a weekly basis, wanting someone to talk them out of it, and attempt it monthly. They are not seriously trying to kill themselves; any deaths of these should be considered accidents. They want to know that someone cares enough to rescue them.

Beth

Here's a biology lesson. Men, on average are stronger than women.

Hi, I'm a biologist, and you're full of it.

This whole tangent really isn't relevant to the topic at hand, so I'd rather not further hijack the thread with it. Though rest assured, I do find it cute that you posted a series of sexist misconceptions and falsehoods, but then concluded your post with the standard assertion that sexism isn't a big deal nowadays. Kudos.

How it is that you somehow turn ever thread into somehow anti-woman which you must cry about how women arent treated fairly? Men just get the job done when comes to suicide, not saying its a good thing, but thats the way it is. Get over it/

She's just a feminazi, you get used to em after a while.

She's just a feminazi, you get used to em after a while.

Ill never get used to childish idiots however.

Ill never get used to childish idiots however.

Nor do I, which is why I have an utter distaste for all humanity. The fact that Kontor still has the attitude that a penis makes you so different (better, even) disgusts me. Nothing against him personally, it is simply that it reinforces my cynicism.

Nor do I, which is why I have an utter distaste for all humanity. The fact that Kontor still has the attitude that a penis makes you so different (better, even) disgusts me. Nothing against him personally, it is simply that it reinforces my cynicism.

Having a penis does make you different.




You can pee standing up with a penis. Without making a mess all over yourself.

Best $17000 I ever spent.

Having a penis does make you different.

I said "so different".

Having a penis does make you different.




You can pee standing up with a penis. Without making a mess all over yourself.

Best $17000 I ever spent.

Joke?

I said "so different".

Being able to write your name in the snow isn't worth a "so"?

I recently found out that in Australia, that suicide is four times more common for men than women.

Why do you think this is?

Some information can be seen at:
http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/a61b65ae88ebf976ca256def00724cde?OpenDocument
http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/a61b65ae88ebf976ca256def00724cde?OpenDocument

What's the suicide rate in your country, and do more women or men commit suicide?

I've known that for a long time, studies were done on back in the early 90s. It's particularly bad in country areas.

Being able to write your name in the snow isn't worth a "so"?

:p No.

Hi, I'm a biologist, and you're full of it.
And you're full of it. Nyah. Nyah Nyah nyah Na. That's easy. Pointless but easy. Please explain how I'm full of it. I'm pretty sure the average male is stronger than the average female, and I am completely sure that the elite sportsmen are stronger than the elite sportswomen in any given field.

This whole tangent really isn't relevant to the topic at hand, so I'd rather not further hijack the thread with it.
Why change a constant modus operandi.

Though rest assured, I do find it cute that you posted a series of sexist misconceptions and falsehoods, but then concluded your post with the standard assertion that sexism isn't a big deal nowadays. Kudos.
I didn't say sexism wasn't a big deal, but I asserted that class is a bigger barrier than sexism. I find it cute, that like usual, you insult rather than debate.

Because what could be worse than being a girl?

A fag? It's a bit of a toss-up. Is it worse to like penises or not have a penis yourself? Then again, the reason "fag" is such a popular insult is the implication that a guy likes to, essentially, play a female sexual role. So we're back to hating women again.

Like pills or halfassing wrist cutting. Pretty simple reason.

Have you ever tried to cut through your wrists? Movies have done it a great disservice, it's a lot more work than they make it look.

Here's a biology lesson. Men, on average are stronger than women. So in the testosterone fueled worlds of sports, calling them ladies or girls is relevant as an insult, as girls, in elite sports especially, are physically weaker.

Men, on average, are raised in a world that affirms their superiority, especially physically; where they are encouraged from a young age to engage in physical tasks that improve strength, coordination, and other physical skills; where they are provided different nutrition because they're "big boys"; and where the possibility of reaching fame and fortune through sports is, while slim, very real.

:p No.

You are either a woman or retarded (and can't write).

Which means you're a woman.

You are either a woman or retarded (and can't write).

Which means you're a woman.

Or perhaps urinigraphy does not appeal to me?

Or perhaps urinigraphy does not appeal to me?

Neh, I'm gonna go with retarded woman. It works for me.

Neh, I'm gonna go with retarded woman. It works for me.

:confused: You must be religious.

:confused: You must be religious.

Or retarded. Or a woman.

Also, God says to iron his shirts.

Or retarded. Or a woman.

Also, God says to iron his shirts.

Kali can do that.

Now we have two trolls.

Chauvinist and proud of it. It's my right buddy. su

Kali can do that.

But no one likes Kali...the whore.

Chauvinist and proud of it. It's my right buddy. su

Who was the first troll?

Chauvinist and proud of it.

It that sentence not a little redundant?

But no one likes Kali.

Rubbish.
http://www.eyeforfilm.co.uk/images/stills/i/indiana_jones_and_the_temple_of_doom_1984.jpg

I'm a WASP. Well, swap protestant with atheist.

Does that make you a Wasa (http://www.wasa.com/wasa/smpage.fwx)?

Does that make you a Wasa (http://www.wasa.com/wasa/smpage.fwx)?

Looks tasty.

I think part of the problem is expectations. You'll notice if you'll look in to those stats closer, suicide rates are highest for the people in the demographic who are the "privilged few".

Well, no, suicides are more common in country areas.

I'm a WASP. Well, swap protestant with atheist. But I'm an Australian white male, who had a university education. I'm 33. By now, I should have my 1st 10 million, and be a CEO, or retired in the Bahamas, or whatever. In short, I should be a god.

The reality is that probably less than 1% of WASPs have the life they are "promised". This means that the WASP crowd has a large sense of failure. This then ties in to the "Men don't talk about feeling, especially about feelings of failure" and ramps up the suicide rate.

For the record. I'm quite laid back (except for my political rants) and don't get worried or stressed much, so this isn't a personal anecdote, or the like. It is a theory from someone with no psych training, making an uneducated guess.

I don't think you're really on the right tangent, personally.

Well women actually attempt it more. Its just that men are more like to use methods that work, ie shotgun to the head while women use methods that dont. Like pills or halfassing wrist cutting. Pretty simple reason.

How do you know women attempt it more?

1. In Australia, the general public don't usually own guns, so your logic fails.

2. Wrist cutting isn't always a sucide attempt.


How it is that you somehow turn ever thread into somehow anti-woman which you must cry about how women arent treated fairly? Men just get the job done when comes to suicide, not saying its a good thing, but thats the way it is. Get over it/

Look, I don't know if she turned the thread into being "anti-woman", and to be honest I don't particularly care.

What's annoying is that you think you're being knowledgable when you're actually making sexist assumptions.

Men, on average, are raised in a world that affirms their superiority, especially physically; where they are encouraged from a young age to engage in physical tasks that improve strength, coordination, and other physical skills; where they are provided different nutrition because they're "big boys"; and where the possibility of reaching fame and fortune through sports is, while slim, very real.

How... absolutely ridiculous.

As I've always learned in my psych classes, men are more "systemizers" while women are more "sympathizers". While these broad labels tell you nothing about the individual males or females, it does tell us about suicide trends in the two groups. Women tend more (on average) to use suicide as a way to grab attention of those around them and typically don't use very fatal methods to try to kill themselves. Men use suicide as a final solution, and typically use effective, fatal methods when trying to kill themselves.

Which is why men die 2-3 times more than women in suicides, yet women attempt suicides annually 2-3 more times than men.