NationStates Jolt Archive

This is another of my Warhammer stories, but it has a serious question for discussion at the end.

I am a member of a 4 man team in a campaign game at our local Games Workshop Battle Bunker. There are a number of teams basically playing what amounts to a large board game to take over the world, and individual battles are fought on the tabletop using the Warhammer Fantasy rules.

Surprise: I'm playing Bretonnia.

So a couple weeks ago we attack the capital city of one of our opponents. (This was on Monday, the day when moves in the campaign are made.) We get the contact info for th e team we're supposed to play against and on Wednesday I make a couple of phonecalls to arrange to play out the battle that Saturday. (They're there every weekend.) The guy I talked to indicated he'd be there at 4:30 PM, no later.

This bugged me because this was to be a BIG game and such a game takes several hours. I was concerned about being able to finish in time but he absolutely could not be there sooner.

Fine.

So we show up that Saturday evening and we start to play a city assault, using a set of rules nobody was familiar with (Normal Warhammer games do not use city walls and in the last couple of editions, there are no rules for it) out of a magazine.

We were confident. We had a 4 man team, they had a 3 man team. In a campaign game, that means we had an advantage (When you have more people than they you do risk more land if you lose, but we didn't care, we were going for their capital!)

Suddenly, we're told that our opponents have added a 4th teammate. (In mid campaign?!?!?!?!?!?) Whatever.

Victory Condition: 7 turn game, we need to take as many sectors of the castle as possible. We did our best but time was obviously against us. We asked the employe who was running it how we should handle the fact that time was running out. He said: "At closing time we just count up the sectors and decide who wins."

Buh? So wait... In what ought to be a 7 turn engagement we get in 3, maybe 4 turns to accomplish the SAME goal? And this is supposed to be fair? It wasn't OUR team's fault we had to start so late. As you can imagine, my team was getting aggravated at this (the battle was going okay... no clear advantage on either side) but a couple of our team members were seriously temped to withdraw from the campaign, since obviously this provides a way in which any defending team can gain advantage by simply scheduling the game late in the day.

So I had to act. I spoke with the Manager who agreed that there had to be a better way. To make a long story short, I negotiated with him and the opposing team to simply redo the battle the following Saturday. Games Workshop agreed to abide by this, the other team agreed, my team agreed, and this time, NO CASTLE WALLS.

So a week passes and we again arrive at the Bunker to have our battle. All 4 of my team showed up, 2 of the opposing team showed up. Naturally we're thinking, "wow... 4 on 2. If they agree to that we have a great advantage." We had agreed they could substitute one person in for the guy who couldn't make it until late, so at that point we're expecting a 4 on 3, to make it a little more even. Again, we went along because we wanted to make it as fair as possible.

...But they pulled a fast one on us. They had 2 players yes, but 3 armies. (The campaign rules specifically state you have to stick with whatever army you chose throughout. Where the hell did this other army come from?) But of course, we didn't realize this at first. So then they ask, "can we just add an army since we can't find a 3rd player?" "Sure." we say.

Unknown to us, that made it a 4 on 4 game with only 2 players on their side.

"But wait." You say. "That's fair, NB. They had 4, you had 4."

No. This is a campaign. The games are SUPPOSED to be unbalanced. That's why you introduce strategy into it. You strategize on the big board in order to gain advantage when you attack. We had done this. We were being flexible at first because if you lose your capital it's a devastating blow, so we were trying to be good sports by giving them flexibility. Now, we were being taken advantage of.

So the game begins and we realize we've essentially given up all of our advantages we'd earned, but we felt that since the other team had been willing to compromise with the fiasco the week before, we sort of owed it to them to be flexible back.

Well, we lost. We lost bigtime. We weren't prepared for the army composition they threw at us because of the last minute changes, and they knew exactly whet we had (because we were playing by the campaign rules.)

No biggie. We lost. We all agreed to have a non-aggression pact from then on, no sweat.

So last Saturday we went up to play some casual games and my wife came along to work on her army.

The punchline: She overheard the other team (who didn't know she was with us) bragging about how they stomped us and how one shouldn't play Bretonnia because of how easily it was beaten the previous week (nevermind that our opponents also played a Bretonnian force...)

So now I'm thinking WTF? We try to show some sportsmanship and these asshats want to puff themselves up as if they'd earned it?

Resolved: Next time, no flexibility. We can't expect it to be offered to us, which means unless we want to be wimps and play the campaign at a disadvantage, it's time to be rigid. A shame.

Discussion: Ever been in a popsition where you put yourself out there to be nice/fair/flexible and the other person promptly makes you wish you hadn't bothered?

This is why one of my life's maxims is "Dont be nice."


Often expanded to "Dont be nice unless that person counts."

I reckon if you introduced beer to the equation, the results might have gone in your favour getting the opposition drunk is a well known tactic to defeating them.
And it makes games even more fun, i recall Warhammer, there's so many rules to remember that I ended up playing with my mates a smaller rule idea under a more simplistic structure, with occaisionally the other guy would try to pull a fast one, i wasn't bothered really i just wanted an interesting game with some hilarious scenarios.
(As usual one of my mates had a massively elitist army tooled to the teeth with all sorts of powers and spells (high elves), i tried using sheer weight of numbers (empire) and to remember a few cool rules to beat him, but this took ages and i ended up simply trying to field my vastly inferior force to his (usually used cannons alot, they're ace) and occiasionally he lost as a i got better at using an out-modded force)

As for me, well yeah i used to be the nice guy all too often (well i think i did, maybe i was just lazy) anyway i decided it's pointless being nice all the time, screw them do what's best for you(This is to people in general).

No examples come to mind directly so I guess I haven't been really disappointed by being nice. I think often it pays to be nice in the beginning at least, if it doesn't you can still be a jerk afterwards. Often it's the first impression that counts, so being nice by default can probably get you further than being a jerk by default.
That being said I've often wished I'd been nicer. I guess I often come over as arrogant or at least as cold to people who don't know me. Meh, nobody's perfect I guess and I tend to try to learn from my mistakes.
If my post was off-topic I apologize, I didn't read your entire OP because it was to long.

It's even better when friends do stuff like this to you! :-) </sarcasm>

Face it.

Gamers are, as a rule of thumb, a tribe of people with ridiculous competitive manners.

If you are going to mess with unknown people at a gaming store, or at gaming tournaments, expect this and worse.

Who's to blame? The campaign organizers. They failed to state specific rules. Just read carefully the rules, and abide by them.

I played Warhammer, and if they indeed did "sideboard" your armies with their army composition in the last battle, you sohuld had revised their list, and have said "No, I'm not going to play against those lists. Decide if you fight the 4 vs 2 armies battle, or lose the game by forfeiting, I gave you a chance, you are just trying to get illegal advantage by my generosity, take or leave it, lads".

No examples come to mind directly so I guess I haven't been really disappointed by being nice. I think often it pays to be nice in the beginning at least, if it doesn't you can still be a jerk afterwards. Often it's the first impression that counts, so being nice by default can probably get you further than being a jerk by default.
That being said I've often wished I'd been nicer. I guess I often come over as arrogant or at least as cold to people who don't know me. Meh, nobody's perfect I guess and I tend to try to learn from my mistakes.
If my post was off-topic I apologize, I didn't read your entire OP because it was to long.

"Oh you still around huh? Where's the money? I don't need no disclaimer rule, i need da money or the information".
*starts flapping arms frantically*
"come on man i've chased you over two threads already for the money, it's time the favour was paid back, before things become...unseasonable."
*chuckles in a sinister way*

I've never found myself being too nice. If someone is going to take advantage of the fact that I'm being "too nice", I tend to let them. It generally doesn't matter, and they end up looking like asshats, and I come off looking best. Sympathy > getting one over on someone.

I think the element that most makes us realize we've been overly flexible was the realization that, had the roles been reveresed, it's unlikely we could expect similar generosity.

...which means that people don't gerenally EXPECT much generosity in these things...

...which means when people start asking for concessions it's really a game of seeing what they can get away with.

bastitches.

NB, we should really chat about the new VC book. It's disgusting

Discussion: Ever been in a popsition where you put yourself out there to be nice/fair/flexible and the other person promptly makes you wish you hadn't bothered?

Absolutely. However, I'm still trying hard to resist the pull from the cynical/pessimist/misanthropic/whatever side and insist that all in all, being nice is the way to go. Still, the one or the other incident has also made me abandon this rule if there are specific other rules that make the "be nice" rule unfeasible. Your post, as far as I gathered, suggests that "Do not be lenient with unknown opponents at campaign games" should be one of those overriding rules.

Further situations where "be nice" is overridden by other priorities:

a) most students' failure to comply with rules, and their tries for excuses and exceptions

b) (ex)partners who have proven to not possess the emotional maturity required for adult conversation and behavior

c) lending money >€5 to the supposed needy whom one does not know enough to have peer pressure work in one's favor as regards the money's return

d) indulging the whims of a person suffering from depression and/or substance abuse (NB: "indulging the whims" is very much unequal to "constructively supporting, even in bad times")

NB, we should really chat about the new VC book. It's disgusting

Add High Elf Speed of Asuryan to that, and we have hours of debate in front of us.

"Oh you still around huh? Where's the money? I don't need no disclaimer rule, i need da money or the information".
*starts flapping arms frantically*
"come on man i've chased you over two threads already for the money, it's time the favour was paid back, before things become...unseasonable."
*chuckles in a sinister way*

Ok, I'll give you the information.

*comes closer to whisper it in your ear*

*licks your ear instead*

*runs away, laughing evilly*

Can't say I've been in a situation like that. I'm usually the one who's skirting the rules and playing just within legal limits.

Ok, I'll give you the information.

*comes closer to whisper it in your ear*

*licks your ear instead*

*runs away, laughing evilly*

"You son of a bitch"
*wipes slevers away*
"You will give me the information even if i have to haunt you after my death!"
*chases with meat cleaver*

Add High Elf Speed of Asuryan to that, and we have hours of debate in front of us.

don't get me fucking started. Now as a VC player I'm used to low initiative and going last but please explain to me how the fuck a 12 point high elf spearman is faster than my 2000 year old vampire lord.

don't get me fucking started. Now as a VC player I'm used to low initiative and going last but please explain to me how the fuck a 12 point high elf spearman is faster than my 2000 year old vampire lord.

...arthritis?

don't get me fucking started. Now as a VC player I'm used to low initiative and going last but please explain to me how the fuck a 12 point high elf spearman is faster than my 2000 year old vampire lord.

The spearman has a sort of genetic trait of "go-fastness" in him. The Vampire lord doesn't because he's lived so long without running about too fast, you know sort of habits develop, and it wouldn't be fair to allow a kick ass Vampire lord to run as fast as elves or they would be proper screwed.
But then again, i do see your point he could use magic or something to just go faster, maybe it's an age thing

Yes, I wish I could be less nice sometimes. I would like to let my inner bitch out more often. But in my line of work you have to be a darling, almost all the time.:(

Yes, I wish I could be less nice sometimes. I would like to let my inner bitch out more often. But in my line of work you have to be a darling, almost all the time.:(

Put laxitive in other folks tea and cling-film over the toilet seat. With a little note on the back of the toilet door, "Don't mess with me".
:p
I've never tried that myself, either way honest i heard it as a prank for school kids, but it sounds brutal.
I recall an mate of mine's dad (i know historical accuracy could be scewed but it's interesting), put Laxative in a water fountain on sports day at his school, needless to say there were loads of people needing the loo.

Put laxitive in other folks tea and cling-film over the toilet seat. With a little note on the back of the toilet door, "Don't mess with me".
:p
I've never tried that myself, either way honest i heard it as a prank for school kids, but it sounds brutal.
I recall an mate of mine's dad (i know historical accuracy could be scewed but it's interesting), put Laxative in a water fountain on sports day at his school, needless to say there were loads of people needing the loo.

ROFL!
If I do that and get caught, I'll tell them it was your idea, MHiJ.:D

The spearman has a sort of genetic trait of "go-fastness" in him. The Vampire lord doesn't because he's lived so long without running about too fast,

The vampire lord IS A VAMPIRE. It has nothing to do with years of training and all that that makes him faster (although that helps).

It's the fac tthat he's an unholy, superhuman abomination. if the spearman is that fast because he's an elf, then the vampire should be a whole shitload faster on account of being a bloody vampire

ROFL!
If I do that and get caught, I'll tell them it was your idea, MHiJ.:D

Yes i can picture the news headlines:
"Mass outbreak of diarrhoea strikes Spain"
"There have been reports of members of the public seeing a solitary figure go to the resevoir and throw what looked to be a giant bag of salt into the purified water-outlet"
A Few hours later:
"The person has been caught and convicted with mass defecation charges, but claims they were motivated by another 'Mad hatter'."
:p

NB, we should really chat about the new VC book. It's disgusting

Ironically, one of our opponents that day had a VC army but he was the 4:30 guy and wasn't there the second week.

..nothing disturbs me more than a bunch of headless Bretonnian warhorses with knights proxying for VC heavy cav...

Add High Elf Speed of Asuryan to that, and we have hours of debate in front of us.

don't get me fucking started. Now as a VC player I'm used to low initiative and going last but please explain to me how the fuck a 12 point high elf spearman is faster than my 2000 year old vampire lord.

Small consolation that impact damage from chariots still gets applied before the high elf strikes first business. Bretonnia uses no chariots...

I can see it in the case of the high elf spears, since they can fight 3 ranks deep I take that to mean they're using pikes and are essentially fighting as a phalanx, which makes sense to have first strike even over heavy cav with lances. What doesn't make sense to me is that ALL HE units have it.

The vampire lord IS A VAMPIRE. It has nothing to do with years of training and all that that makes him faster (although that helps).

It's the fac tthat he's an unholy, superhuman abomination. if the spearman is that fast because he's an elf, then the vampire should be a whole shitload faster on account of being a bloody vampire

Again, arthritis?

Yes i can picture the news headlines:
"Mass outbreak of diarrhoea strikes Spain"
"There have been reports of members of the public seeing a solitary figure go to the resevoir and throw what looked to be a giant bag of salt into the purified water-outlet"
A Few hours later:
"The person has been caught and convicted with mass defecation charges, but claims they were motivated by another 'Mad hatter'."
:p

ROFLMAO!!!:D
MHiJ, thanks a lot for making me laugh. I really appreciate it.;)

consider this:

At least it sems that your GW crew tried to balance things out on the move

try playing in tournaments where young asian players go hardcore offering some of their cool models to bribe the GW judges into taking their side

The vampire lord IS A VAMPIRE. It has nothing to do with years of training and all that that makes him faster (although that helps).

It's the fac tthat he's an unholy, superhuman abomination. if the spearman is that fast because he's an elf, then the vampire should be a whole shitload faster on account of being a bloody vampire

"I DON'T KNOW! I DIDN'T MAKE THE GAME! ASK THE DEVELOPERS!"
*sits down*

I can see it in the case of the high elf spears, since they can fight 3 ranks deep I take that to mean they're using pikes and are essentially fighting as a phalanx, which makes sense to have first strike even over heavy cav with lances. What doesn't make sense to me is that ALL HE units have it.

What they should have done is given spearmen asf, and given high I to everyone else and make them unaffected by greatweapons. That would have still made them vulnerable to charges.

ROFLMAO!!!:D
MHiJ, thanks a lot for making me laugh. I really appreciate it.;)

Oh what makes you think it never happened?
*looks around inquisitively*
Who knows, maybe it could be you?

don't get me fucking started. Now as a VC player I'm used to low initiative and going last but please explain to me how the fuck a 12 point high elf spearman is faster than my 2000 year old vampire lord.

Told you.

What about striking first zombies? They turned into 28 days zombies now because they have a cart?

It is not like the 9 (9 now, not 12), points spearelf is going to harm your vampire hitting first, in any case. Plus if your vampire lord is charging a wall of elven spearmen up front, he deserves to be hitted first for having a pikefodder wish.

Elves are magical beings too, and extremely long living guys, too. Actually, magical long-lived beings that are just fast and nothing else, pretty fragile, and weak. The vampires are tough, hard, strong, fast and resilent. What is the problem with another magical just outclassing you in speed? You have all the other things.

Told you.

What about striking first zombies? They turned into 28 days zombies now because they have a cart?

well, they "ASF" at I1. Which means anything ASF, is still going first. The cart has better uses than chilling behind a ws1 s2 zombie block letting them swing first in a combat they can barely win if I'm lucky.



It is not like the 9 (9 now, not 12), points spearelf is going to harm your vampire hitting first, in any case. Plus if your vampire lord is charging a wall of elven spearmen up front, he deserves to be hitted first for having a pikefodder wish.

Elves are magical beings too, and extremely long living guys, too. Actually, magical long-lived beings that are just fast and nothing else, pretty fragile, and weak. The vampires are tough, hard, strong, fast and resilent. What is the problem with another magical just outclassing you in speed? You have all the other things.

balance wise I understand it. Conceptually I don't. And when they need to throw all conceptual sense out of the window to make balance, it gets stupid.

I have no problem with spearmen striking first because, as you said, you hit a wall of spears. But a guy with s3 carrying a giant fucking sword swinging first before the vampire?

Oh what makes you think it never happened?
*looks around inquisitively*
Who knows, maybe it could be you?

<.<
Dude, that statement is gonna make me paranoid.
>.>
Oh gods, maybe I've done it and didn't know I was doing it!!:eek:

What they should have done is given spearmen asf, and given high I to everyone else and make them unaffected by greatweapons. That would have still made them vulnerable to charges.

Give ASF to Spearelves, Dragon Princes, Silver Helms, White Lions, Princes, Nobles, and Swordmasters. With that, I would had been happy. Perhaps Shadow Warriors, too, and that is it. That would had been better. Not to the now staggering good Phoenix Guards, mages, or lowly archers, charioteers, and bolt thrower crews.

Believe me, a game of High elves versus High Elves now is a bitchfest of "I go first", "no you don't", "I do!", "no, I DO!".

<.<
Dude, that statement is gonna make me paranoid.
>.>
Oh gods, maybe I've done it and didn't know I was doing it!!:eek:

well there was a thread about the US water supply having traces of drugs, due to the heavy amount of drugs prescribed in the US some residue is still left over in the tap water.
So in a sense it could be happening everywhere, which would explain why i think odd things, but then again i've always done this from my point of view and from many others i tend to throw people in conversation at times if i start discussing abstract ideas, hence why i prefer sticking to simple stuff, but who knows one day i'll prove them all wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong i tell you.
It's allllllll wrong!
I mean what were we talking about?:)

I can prove my statement with the numerous threadjacks i've taken part in, hell this is one of them.

Give ASF to Spearelves, Dragon Princes, Silver Helms, White Lions, Princes, Nobles, and Swordmasters. With that, I would had been happy. Perhaps Shadow Warriors, too, and that is it. That would had been better. Not to the now staggering good Phoenix Guards, mages, or lowly archers, charioteers, and bolt thrower crews.

Believe me, a game of High elves versus High Elves now is a bitchfest of "I go first", "no you don't", "I do!", "no, I DO!".

it's simple. In result of 2 ASF units with identical I, strike first goes to the unit that charges, on the charge. After that it is resolved in the order of who won combat the previous turn.

well, they "ASF" at I1. Which means anything ASF, is still going first. The cart has better uses than chilling behind a ws1 s2 zombie block letting them swing first in a combat they can barely win if I'm lucky.

You know you can give the zombies the vampire stats, right? And resurrect them? And that they are unbreakable? I have seen all-zombie/character armies just forcing the opposition to a distasteful war of attrition that you entitled to win in the end.

balance wise I understand it. Conceptually I don't. And when they need to throw all conceptual sense out of the window to make balance, it gets stupid.

I have no problem with spearmen striking first because, as you said, you hit a wall of spears. But a guy with s3 carrying a giant fucking sword swinging first before the vampire?

What a coincidence!, I understand it concept wise, (with a twist), but not balance wise, because in many cases drops the effect of the charge.

A specialist martial artist guy with S3 carrying the big fucking sword he has trained with for ages? With a slim build and reflexes far beyond human reach that allows him to react as fast as anything else? Who trains mainly for precision and speed rather than strenght and resilence for centuries? Specially swinging first iajutsu like against his opponents? Who in fluff can cut leaves in water without spinkling and turning off candles without touching them?

Yes, I would say that such a guy could strike first against a vampire.

Archers, mages, warmachine crews and the like, well, those I don't approve. Swordmasters?, Hell yeah, they should strike first. Always.

well there was a thread about the US water supply having traces of drugs, due to the heavy amount of drugs prescribed in the US some residue is still left over in the tap water.
So in a sense it could be happening everywhere, which would explain why i think odd things, but then again i've always done this from my point of view and from many others i tend to throw people in conversation at times if i start discussing abstract ideas, hence why i prefer sticking to simple stuff, but who knows one day i'll prove them all wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong i tell you.
It's allllllll wrong!
I mean what were we talking about?:)

I can prove my statement with the numerous threadjacks i've taken part in, hell this is one of them.

Mad Hatters... you would think weird stuff even without the thought of drugs in the water.
And now I'm confused. But hey, this always happens when I have convos with you.
I think you developed, with LG's help, a drug that passes to the NSGers through the screen of their pcs. Psycho team!!!:eek:

As for the thread-jacks, yeah, no one can stand his/her ground against you. You're the #1 threadjacker NSG has!:D

You know you can give the zombies the vampire stats, right? And resurrect them? And that they are unbreakable? I have seen all-zombie/character armies just forcing the opposition to a distasteful war of attrition that you entitled to win in the end.

not vampire stats, just weapon skill, and that requires you to NOT be fighting with the vampire, and if you ask me whether I want to have 5 zombies fighting with a vampire's WS, or one vampire, especially if it costs me a 30 point item to do it, the answer is typically clear for me.

And unbreakable is quite eaisly balanced by the fact that:

1) they crumble
2) they can't be joined by characters
3) they can't pursue

consider this:

At least it sems that your GW crew tried to balance things out on the move

try playing in tournaments where young asian players go hardcore offering some of their cool models to bribe the GW judges into taking their side

... you've seen this?

What they should have done is given spearmen asf, and given high I to everyone else and make them unaffected by greatweapons. That would have still made them vulnerable to charges.

That makes sense.

'cause what I'm thinking is... there's a Dark Elf revamp coming this spring. Will they, too, get ASF based on their being a relatively recent offshoot of HE civilization?

For that mmatter, what about Wood Elves? They've been apart for much longer but still elves. A case could be made...

And while we're at it, will Eldar in 40K get that too? What about Dark Eldar?

....


:cry:

Okay, I'm probably not the best person to give my opinion/advice...I'm kinda mean. Anyway, I think the way you work this out is: do you want to be known as a pushover or a stubborn bitch/bastard?
Deicide what you'd rather be...

Okay, I'm probably not the best person to give my opinion/advice...I'm kinda mean. Anyway, I think the way you work this out is: do you want to be known as a pushover or a stubborn bitch/bastard?
Deicide what you'd rather be...

hows about neither. yeah neither smart ass. damn false dilemmas.

4 vs 2 playground rules

fight!

(not that I have any idea what is going on in this thread)

(not that I have any idea what is going on in this thread)

This has very quickly become my motto with this thread, too. Maybe NeoB should modify their caveat into "There will be a serious discussion question at the end, but it'll quickly get ignored in the thread anyhow so please judge your contribution by the degree of your understanding of the bulk of this OP, still".

:]

4 vs 2 playground rules

fight!

(not that I have any idea what is going on in this thread)

This has very quickly become my motto with this thread, too. Maybe NeoB should modify their caveat into "There will be a serious discussion question at the end, but it'll quickly get ignored in the thread anyhow so please judge your contribution by the degree of your understanding of the bulk of this OP, still".

:]

Ah i can explain, there's a possible threat of a 2000 year old Vampire lord claiming compensation from High Elves after he suffered from a sudden Bowel disorder by being poisoned with Laxative.
However the High Elves are claiming an unknown person in Spain attempted to impersonate them and set them up, but they have not got enough evidence for this claim.

Ah i can explain, there's a possible threat of a 2000 year old Vampire lord claiming compensation from High Elves after he suffered from a sudden Bowel disorder by being poisoned with Laxative.
However the High Elves are claiming an unknown person in Spain attempted to impersonate them and set them up, but they have not got enough evidence for this claim.

MHiJ, I gotta say, this is one of the biggest threadjacks I've seen you do. You diserve a medal!!!:D
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b120/pdhinderlie/Smileys/threadjack.gif

Okay, I'm probably not the best person to give my opinion/advice...I'm kinda mean. Anyway, I think the way you work this out is: do you want to be known as a pushover or a stubborn bitch/bastard?
Deicide what you'd rather be...

Well, I think ultimately enforcing rules is not a mean thing to do per se. Deciding what's fair is not our job, it's the job of the game designers. I guess what I want is if a team finds out they're being attacked by "The Knights who say 'Ni'" (That's our team name) that they'll know they'd better have their ducks in a row because we will, and we expect the rules to be followed at all times. I want them to be more concerned with their strategy than trying to think of ways to cheat, and I want them to know that whatever they may have heard about us in the beginning of the campaign, we will give no quarter, but that's okay because we ask for none.

And maybe, from now on, when I go to set up my army, I'll have a portable media player playing Camina Burana* as I deploy my force.

*The music most often associated with the movie Excalibur, played when King Arthur recovers and the knights sally forth from Camelot to go open up a can of whoopass on Mordred's army.

UPDATE:

I have learned that the smack talk that was overheard was NOT about us after all. While I do feel embarassed about operating under a false presumption, I also feel better in that I don't feel betrayed for being nice. We still have a bitter defeat on our hands, but losing a game isn't so hard to deal with.

In fact, someone else is positioning to attack those guys, and we've moved to assist. We decided that in the interest of sportsmanship and good relations we'll block the attackers heading their way.

Too bad we found out too late that that invading team is being led by a Games Workshop employee...

lolz.

If any of you guys will bein the Baltimore area on Saturday you can come out and watch the fiasco... ;)

Do you ever just wish you'd been less nice?

Nope, can't say as that is a problem of mine.

Mad Hatters... you would think weird stuff even without the thought of drugs in the water.
And now I'm confused. But hey, this always happens when I have convos with you.
I think you developed, with LG's help, a drug that passes to the NSGers through the screen of their pcs. Psycho team!!!:eek:

As for the thread-jacks, yeah, no one can stand his/her ground against you. You're the #1 threadjacker NSG has!:D

I don't know, me and you as team are pretty darn good at it to...

I think, the problem here was, you weren't playing a Chaos Dwarf army :D.

I think, the problem here was, you weren't playing a Chaos Dwarf army :D.

No, the problem was that he was playing Warhammer Fantasy.

...40k's the way to go.

UPDATE:

I have learned that the smack talk that was overheard was NOT about us after all. While I do feel embarassed about operating under a false presumption, I also feel better in that I don't feel betrayed for being nice. We still have a bitter defeat on our hands, but losing a game isn't so hard to deal with.

In fact, someone else is positioning to attack those guys, and we've moved to assist. We decided that in the interest of sportsmanship and good relations we'll block the attackers heading their way.

Too bad we found out too late that that invading team is being led by a Games Workshop employee...

lolz.

If any of you guys will bein the Baltimore area on Saturday you can come out and watch the fiasco... ;)

Conflict of interest much?

Conflict of interest much?

I guess this will be the real test of just how fair-minded those guys are.

No, the problem was that he was playing Warhammer Fantasy.

...40k's the way to go.

Why not both? that's what i did, man i recall that game, it took hours of painstaking painting to get even some of my models looking good. Fun but very time consuming for me, alot of the battles i played were with an army half painted, usually the unpainted models died first to save the cooler looking ones. ahh good times.
40k eh? I took Imperial Guard and Blood angels Space Marines, and a little Dark Eldar force but meh mostly Guard. Very fun to play with those tanks.

Funny you should bring up this topic in the context of Warhammer. See, I play World of Warcraft, and I've been really really really looking forward to the release of Warhammer Online because I think it's going to draw off the most obnoxious and annoying subpopulation of WoW players: the PvP assholes.

Don't get me wrong, PvP can be fun as hell. I PvP a lot. But there are people who play PvP, and there are PvP assholes. It is quite easy to spot the difference.

PvP assholes have "HEAL ME" macros that they spam constantly, but fucked if they will ever stoop to actually protecting a healer.

PvP assholes fight midfield to farm HKs, rather than fighting on flags to help win the match. When their error is pointed out, they simply say "We're winning, aren't we?" Yes, we are, Mr. Asshole...because of all the people DEFENDING FLAGS while you run around playing hit-with-weapon.

PvP assholes are covered in welfare epic gear and they always stack +crit.

PvP assholes are physically unable to stop themselves from sharing their most recent critical hit in the /yell chat channel.

PvP assholes use "fag" like a comma.

I am going to be soooooooooooooooooo happy when Warhammer Online is up, because all the WoW PvP assholes are stoked and can't wait to play it.

Why not both? that's what i did, man i recall that game, it took hours of painstaking painting to get even some of my models looking good. Fun but very time consuming for me, alot of the battles i played were with an army half painted, usually the unpainted models died first to save the cooler looking ones. ahh good times.
40k eh? I took Imperial Guard and Blood angels Space Marines, and a little Dark Eldar force but meh mostly Guard. Very fun to play with those tanks.

For the record, I play both. My Fantasy armies are Bretonnia and Dark Elves, and my 40K force is Black Templars and I'm just starting a Tau army :)

Funny you should bring up this topic in the context of Warhammer. See, I play World of Warcraft, and I've been really really really looking forward to the release of Warhammer Online because I think it's going to draw off the most obnoxious and annoying subpopulation of WoW players: the PvP assholes.

Don't get me wrong, PvP can be fun as hell. I PvP a lot. But there are people who play PvP, and there are PvP assholes. It is quite easy to spot the difference.

QFMFT

And just to add to your list from my EQ2 experience:

PvP assholes will teabag you after a kill.
PvP assholes will grief you even though killing the same opponent twice gains no benefit over just once.
PvP assholes spend their life looking for every exploit, every weakness in a zone that they can use to escape you when they start to lose
PvP assholes will hang around lowbies they can't attck, hoping someone will accidentally hit an AoE and hit them, enabling them to slaughter the lowbie.

I'm not particularly interested in playing Warhammer Online... you can't play as Bretonnia... ;)

Hmm, I once tried to get a Warhammer Fantasy army up and running.

Unfortunately, I have neither the time nor money to do so. It's ludicrously overpriced, for a student.

Also, I suck at painting figures.

Discussion: Ever been in a popsition where you put yourself out there to be nice/fair/flexible and the other person promptly makes you wish you hadn't bothered?

frequently. but i've recently been experimenting with being a bastard, the main result of which seems to be getting shouted at. so i think i'll just go back to being a doormat.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nice

Judging from the first three definitions, you were anything but nice.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nice

Judging from the first three definitions, you were anything but nice.

The irony of that leaves me speechless.

The irony of that leaves me speechless.

From Write it Right: A Little Blacklist of Literary Faults, by Ambrose Gwinnett Bierce:

Nice for Good, or Agreeable. "A nice girl." Nice means fastidious, delicately discriminative, and the like. Pope uses the word admirably of a dandy who was skilled in the nice conduct [management] of a clouded cane.

Do you ever just wish you'd been less nice?
who was the referee? there should've been one.

After the first saturday, I would've forced the other team to stick to the rules. same troop elements, everything. and if the other players can't make it. Tough Shit. Sure you could ask one of your players to sit out, making it a 3 on 2.

but stick to the rules. let em bitch at the end.

oh and I would've changed my troop elements (or had back up ones) since you are having a do-over.

Discussion: Ever been in a popsition where you put yourself out there to be nice/fair/flexible and the other person promptly makes you wish you hadn't bothered?

There have been times when I wish I had been less nice or flexible. However, there are five times as many instances where I wished another person had been nicer or more flexible. As I am "another person" to everyone who isn't me, I think I'll stick with being nice. If a situation gets really bad, I can always stop.

I don't know, me and you as team are pretty darn good at it to...

Shhhh, Dyakovo, they might start thinking and realize we´re on to something. Play it cool.:cool:

who was the referee? there should've been one.

After the first saturday, I would've forced the other team to stick to the rules. same troop elements, everything. and if the other players can't make it. Tough Shit. Sure you could ask one of your players to sit out, making it a 3 on 2.

but stick to the rules. let em bitch at the end.

oh and I would've changed my troop elements (or had back up ones) since you are having a do-over.

Yeah that's prettymuch our new policy. We won't be nasty about it, but we will insist on adherence to the rules.

There was a ref but since the issue wasn't disputed he didn't disallow it. Frankly, I think he should have if for no other reason than to avoid establishing a bad precedent.

There have been times when I wish I had been less nice or flexible. However, there are five times as many instances where I wished another person had been nicer or more flexible. As I am "another person" to everyone who isn't me, I think I'll stick with being nice. If a situation gets really bad, I can always stop.

I don't mean to come across as if I think being an asshole is better. I still try to adopt a WWJD mentality with stuff. It's just that I will be better about reminding myself that it isn't necessary to roll over just because someone asks you to.

See, I think the phenomenon is a common one, where someone asks for something that's so unusual or so outrageous that some part of you can't believe they'd have the audacity, so you give in because some part of you has doubts that you're justified saying no... As if the sheer audacity of the request somehow gives it credibility. I think this is what we experienced that day.

Shhhh, Dyakovo, they might start thinking and realize we´re on to something. Play it cool.:cool:

Thinking? On NSG? What are you smoking?
:p

Thinking? On NSG? What are you smoking?
:p

LOL!:p