NationStates Jolt Archive

Cost of health, or the cost of freedom?
Dame Carol Black, the national director for health and work, said ill-health was costing the economy £100bn a year.
Her report, commissioned by ministers, called for a new fit-note system as well as fit for work schemes embedded in the NHS to help people back to work.
She said the reforms could help cut the numbers on incapacity benefit.
Some 350,000 people a year move from long-term sick notes in to the system.
wow, i hadn't realised the sheer expense of ill health on the economy.
It means Britain has one of the highest proportions of people on the benefit in Europe after numbers have more than trebled since the 1970s to 2.7m.
I wonder which country has the highest number of people on benefit support?
Some 175m working days are lost each year, costing the economy £100bn in lost productivity, benefits and taxes.
Again more wonderment.
Of course it isn't just the numbers that should be considered but the people who are affected by real difficulties, the actual people behind the numbers.

BBC LINK (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7297174.stm)

So folks feel free to speak your mind, but i'd like an answer to my question below.
Is this caused by a cultural acceptance of going on benefits support, or is this highlighting an issue felt across the modern (or post-modern) world?

I think a lot has to do with the 'extras' that are available for the people who need to claim benefit. Once reduced poll tax (sorry, still call it that), free prescriptions and eye tests etc are taken into account it must be very hard to get back into a job that pays enough to compensate.
My wife is on mobility allowance and can claim a free car (from virtually any range) with free servicing and no road tax instead of taking her benefit - this can equate to a fully supported new car for a couple of hundred pounds a month. It's this sort of allowance that is wrongly abused so often, and pushes the total cost of benefits up.
We need a good shake up so the needy get what they require and the shirkers get back to work!!

This isn't just benefits, it's the cost of 'sick days' on the economy. It means the figure is wildly distorted - how many people are actually on long term health benefits isn't clear from it at all.

This isn't just benefits, it's the cost of 'sick days' on the economy. It means the figure is wildly distorted - how many people are actually on long term health benefits isn't clear from it at all.
thanks for pointing that out.

Anything else i've missed?
Any thoughts at all?

thanks for pointing that out.

Anything else i've missed?
Any thoughts at all?

I think that there would be fewer sick days if they gave us a decent number of bank holidays and other breaks throughout the year. A lot of the 'sick' days will be people who have just been working too hard, too long.

The US loses far more. All I'm gonna say.

I saw this on the morning news before I left for work. I only got the general gist though as I had to leave.

What I understand though is 'they' are mooting the idea of 'work notes' rather than a sick note, whereby the doctor gives a brief list of the types of employment that those on invalidity benifit should be able to do.

On the surface it seems like a good-ish idea, but it does make it seem that the goverment are not interested in a persons choice of career, and are only interested getting those lazy slobs back to work.

Which brings to mind the question: Should anybody be penalised for not taking a job that they don't really want?

I think that there would be fewer sick days if they gave us a decent number of bank holidays and other breaks throughout the year. A lot of the 'sick' days will be people who have just been working too hard, too long.
This i agree with, but there's a prevailing culture of working 9-5 for a job then go home exhausted. I'd like to see shorter working hours.

The US loses far more. All I'm gonna say.

Do you mean because of it's larger population etc? Or in comparision person to person?

I saw this on the morning news before I left for work. I only got the general gist though as I had to leave.

What I understand though is 'they' are mooting the idea of 'work notes' rather than a sick note, whereby the doctor gives a brief list of the types of employment that those on invalidity benifit should be able to do.

On the surface it seems like a good-ish idea, but it does make it seem that the goverment are not interested in a persons choice of career, and are only interested getting those lazy slobs back to work.

Which brings to mind the question: Should anybody be penalised for not taking a job that they don't really want?

You mean the government is offering a solution to the cause of sick-days taken and not the root cause?
Aye it seems this won't reduce numbers of people on benefit support instead it will make them work in-sipte of this, i'm sure it will increase profits, but it will only result in the scenario being repeated.

As to your question, well i think if there was a greater need or drive to get these folks some motivation into working again then maybe they would work, so i suppose people could be penalised but not harshly if they have a job they don't want. Because it's their choice to work in their job, they made the decision to work and it's not as if it's a third world country.
Of course you could argue that there is no real choice for people in this situation in the first place, they only picked the job because that's what they've always done, and if you traced job history (as in intergenerational, so jobs of their fathers and grandfathers etc) back i think you would find a similarity in the type of work carried out.

Is this caused by a cultural acceptance of going on benefits support, or is this highlighting an issue felt across the modern (or post-modern) world?

There is no large scale cultural acceptance of being on (any sort of) benefits. I have experance this myself. I work nights, have never been out of work, have a good level education, i am 25 (but look younger) but because i have a young daughter of 20 mouth who i often take out during the day, i often get abuse and told to get a job.


Back to the topic, If you on long term sickness benefit (which i think is longer then 3 mouth), people will assume your faking it and you may get verbally attacked. This is due to people getting this benefit for what people preceve as not an illness, or for minor complaints ( like eczema as a real life example.) This is why i agree with fit-note system for long term sickness, but only as long as there a good support system for these people. People with minor complaints will be able to work but not lose the help need due to problem.

Should anybody be penalised for not taking a job that they don't really want?

Yes, once you have a job, though you will have less time you can still find another job.

As to your question, well i think if there was a greater need or drive to get these folks some motivation into working again then maybe they would work, so i suppose people could be penalised but not harshly if they have a job they don't want. Because it's their choice to work in their job, they made the decision to work and it's not as if it's a third world country.

Yes in any scenrios like this I guess you are right. I was thinking more along the lines of the long term unemployed being denied benfits if they fail to take any offered job, even if it means working in an industry they do not wish to be in.

Personal case:

A freind of mine has just moved back to the UK from Columbia, SA, he has been on this job seekers course where he fdaild to find employment and has now been told that he MUST now look for any job or have his benifits suspended. He has no choice now but to forgoe his preferance and indeed his expertiese in favour of taking any menial, low skilled, low page job that he can get his hands on.

If this new 'work note' idea goes ahead I wonder if it will be similar to this. That is the context in which I asked the question.

GothicbobThere is no large scale cultural acceptance of being on (any sort of) benefits. I have experance this myself. I work nights, have never been out of work, have a good level education, i am 25 (but look younger) but because i have a young daughter of 20 mouth who i often take out during the day, i often get abuse and told to get a job.
So those politicians who claim that a "culture of dependancy on benefits" is false?
To my knowledge what you say makes sense, most people on benefits actually need them.
That sounds unfair, so you're a single father then?

Back to the topic, If you on long term sickness benefit (which i think is longer then 3 mouth), people will assume your faking it and you may get verbally attacked. This is due to people getting this benefit for what people preceve as not an illness, or for minor complaints ( like eczema as a real life example.) This is why i agree with fit-note system for long term sickness, but only as long as there a good support system for these people. People with minor complaints will be able to work but not lose the help need due to problem.
Who would verbally attack someone on benefits? I ask only because i've never witnessed this before.

< understood snip>
Personal case:

A freind of mine has just moved back to the UK from Columbia, SA, he has been on this job seekers course where he fdaild to find employment and has now been told that he MUST now look for any job or have his benifits suspended. He has no choice now but to forgoe his preferance and indeed his expertiese in favour of taking any menial, low skilled, low page job that he can get his hands on.

If this new 'work note' idea goes ahead I wonder if it will be similar to this. That is the context in which I asked the question.
Can he not just explain to the benefits people "look i can't find work i'm specialised in can't i take a bit longer to look first?".
Also would he still not be able to get the job he wants eventually in the long run?
Oh and i thought the whole point of a job seekers course was to have that particular job waiting for you afterward?

That sounds unfair, so you're a single father then?
No but my Girlfriend works days so i do childcare then and she get evenings


[/QUOTE]Who would verbally attack someone on benefits? I ask only because i've never witnessed this before.[/QUOTE]
It happen to other i know as well. It seem to largely be people who appear in there late 40's early 50's and fairly affluent. I had people refuse to move out of the pram bay on an empty bus because i was "a drain on real people"