NationStates Jolt Archive

This woman was arrested for child endangerment for leaving baby in car for a few minutes in a parking lot but never went into the store or went farther from the car then 10 yards. She just took her other kids to a Salvation Army kettle to donate some money into it and to teach her children lessons about charity. .This is definatly a case where the police jumped the gun and overreacted and I dont see this holding up in court. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080312/ap_on_re_us/mom_on_trial;_ylt=AtztvgQlBQ9CYI1GKRDXsyFH2ocA

Sounds like they definitely overstepped their authority.

Especially if she is out of the car for a minute and within viewing distance.

What if she had got out to help someone who was under duress and left all her children in the car? Would she have been treated the same? Probably. Sounds like these people were being unreasonable, especially in the light of there being no evidence of any negligence.

This woman was arrested for child endangerment for leaving baby in car for a few minutes in a parking lot but never went into the store or went farther from the car then 10 yards. She just took her other kids to a Salvation Army kettle to donate some money into it and to teach her children lessons about charity. .This is definatly a case where the police jumped the gun and overreacted and I dont see this holding up in court. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080312/ap_on_re_us/mom_on_trial;_ylt=AtztvgQlBQ9CYI1GKRDXsyFH2ocA

Definitely seems like they overreacted a tad...

I think the police reacted fairly, so there :p

Gov't: "You're all far too stupid to take care of your kids. You're lucky we even let you keep them in your own house. Now, shut up while we finish trampling your rights."

Do a very small number of idiots require everyone to be suspected of criminal neglect?

Why are so many US police officers so deeply fucktarded?

Considering the number of babies that die each year when left in the car, it makes sense the police would try to find where the mother went. But if she's just ten yards away and not leaving the kid there for more than a few minutes it's overreacting to make her face trial.
Of course, the police might not have a choice, if a law has been made by overzealous politicians that under no circumstances a child may be left alone in the car.

Gov't: "You're all far too stupid to take care of your kids. You're lucky we even let you keep them in your own house. Now, shut up while we finish trampling your rights."

Do a very small number of idiots require everyone to be suspected of criminal neglect?

QFT, and according to Gov. Co. yes. Because of a few groups of idiots, they now deem everyone idiots.

Of course, the police might not have a choice, if a law has been made by overzealous politicians that under no circumstances a child may be left alone in the car.

This. Without knowing what the law actually is, it's hard to say the police overstepped. It might be a matter that they were required to by the letter of the law.

Well I endanger my child every single day when I leave her in the car to walk my other child to the door of her school. Clearly I need to be arrested, and have my children removed from my care.

This is insane, and I really feel for the shit this woman has to go through because some pissed off, self-righteous moron decided to make some sort of point that never needed making.

This. Without knowing what the law actually is, it's hard to say the police overstepped. It might be a matter that they were required to by the letter of the law.

I don't think verbally abusing the woman and reacting unreasonably would be part of that letter of the law.

This. Without knowing what the law actually is, it's hard to say the police overstepped. It might be a matter that they were required to by the letter of the law.

Yay for knee-jerk Laws! Ahh Gov. Co. you do know what is best for us don't ya?

I don't think verbally abusing the woman and reacting unreasonably would be part of that letter of the law.

Hey, some people like that...

and seriously, what the fuck is "gov. co." supposed to mean anyway?

and seriously, what the fuck is "gov. co." supposed to mean anyway?

You are clearly part of the corporate powers that be who keep the people down.

You are clearly part of the corporate powers that be who keep the people down.

duh. How do you think I afford these nice suits?

Well I endanger my child every single day when I leave her in the car to walk my other child to the door of her school. Clearly I need to be arrested, and have my children removed from my care.

Well, at least you realize it...

duh. How do you think I afford these nice suits?

So you claim. For all we know you could be sitting in Cheeto-stained sweat pants in the sunken arms of a salvaged sofa painfully maneuvered into your trailer.

Well, at least you realize it...

Don't make me hurt you.

and seriously, what the fuck is "gov. co." supposed to mean anyway?

Government that whores itself out like a Fortune 500 company. It originated when the city of Charlotte, NC had their police set up speed traps throughout the city in unmarked cars, and vans, and speed trap cameras. The basic premises of this was to generate revenue for the Charlotte Government as well as the Mecklenburg County Gov. The reason it's not legit is that people were getting ticketed for even going 1 mph over the speed limit. I'm not real big on the speed trap cameras because I'd like to face the person that is accusing me of breaking a law (IE Policeman that pulls me over).

I use the term ever since to describe a government that is corrupted, oversteps it boundaries with ridiculous laws and legislation that does nothing but to be a pain in the ass to the citizens and to generate revenue.

Well I endanger my child every single day when I leave her in the car to walk my other child to the door of her school. Clearly I need to be arrested, and have my children removed from my care.
Well I wasn't going to say anything, but.......


*flees in terror*

duh. How do you think I afford these nice suits?

You're a lawyer who gets paid $200 an hour. :p

So you claim. For all we know you could be sitting in Cheeto-stained sweat pants in the sunken arms of a salvaged sofa painfully maneuvered into your trailer.

leave me and my cheeto stained sweat pants out of this bitch!

You're a lawyer who gets paid $200 an hour. :p

PAID 200 an hour? No no no, I could only wish I got paid 200 an hour. 200 an hour would quadruple my salary. No, my firm gets paid 200 an hour for my time. I barely get a quarter of that.

Well I wasn't going to say anything, but.......


*flees in terror*

Frankly, I don't think it's endangerment even when the vehicle is out of your sight, provided you are only gone for five minutes or so. Exceptions would be in very hot or cold temperatures, and if you left the vehicle running and/or open.

I use the term ever since to describe a government that is corrupted, oversteps it boundaries with ridiculous laws and legislation that does nothing but to be a pain in the ass to the citizens and to generate revenue.

From my experience you use it whenever the government does anything that disagrees with your somewhat myopic ideology of what the government should be.

Which with you is pretty much whenever the topic of government is raised. But eh, to each his own.

PAID 200 an hour? No no no, I could only wish I got paid 200 an hour. 200 an hour would quadruple my salary. No, my firm gets paid 200 an hour for my time. I barely get a quarter of that.

Ah, so does that mean your firm charges the client $200 an hour? Because I think I remember awhile back you said that you or the firm charges client $200 an hour....

My memory sucks, I know....

PAID 200 an hour? No no no, I could only wish I got paid 200 an hour. 200 an hour would quadruple my salary. No, my firm gets paid 200 an hour for my time. I barely get a quarter of that.

Please remind me why I am even considering entering into this profession?

Don't make me hurt you.

I thought you liked to be the one that gets hu...erm, never mind.

Please remind me why I am even considering entering into this profession?

because if you kiss enough ass then you get to be partner and get to reap the other $150 an hour that someone else makes for you?

From my experience you use it whenever the government does anything that disagrees with your somewhat myopic ideology of what the government should be.

Which with you is pretty much whenever the topic of government is raised. But eh, to each his own.

What can I say, I just don't trust the Government at all, I don't trust any sprawling mass of corrupted bureaucratic power house that hasn't done anything right since Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus.

Ah, so does that mean your firm charges the client $200 an hour? Because I think I remember awhile back you said that you or the firm charges client $200 an hour....

My memory sucks, I know....

my time is billed, depending on the project, typically at about $200 an hour yes. Which is not atypical for a senior associate.

my time is billed, depending on the project, typically at about $200 an hour yes. Which is not atypical for a senior associate.

Ahh ok. Thanks for the clarification.

because if you kiss enough ass then you get to be partner and get to reap the other $150 an hour that someone else makes for you?

I'm not much of an ass kisser. I think I may prefer the good hours, good benefits and acceptable pay of a teacher once more. With my LLB, I'll be making $65,000 in my first year back...instead of killing myself for $32,000 as an articling student, and then $45,000 as a first year associate.

Then again, maybe this class just makes me want to commit profession suicide.

What can I say, I just don't trust the Government at all, I don't trust any sprawling mass of corrupted bureaucratic power house that hasn't done anything right since Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus.

????????

Do you even understand what habeas corpus is? Or it's status as a check on the power of the state? I mean...seriously now.

I thought you liked to be the one that gets hu...erm, never mind.

Doesn't mean I don't enjoy bruising my own knuckles from time to time.

????????

Do you even understand what habeas corpus is? Or it's status as a check on the power of the state? I mean...seriously now.

I meant Habeus corpeus, and yes I do. It's supposed to protect the accused against arbitrary state action.

Frankly, I don't think it's endangerment even when the vehicle is out of your sight, provided you are only gone for five minutes or so. Exceptions would be in very hot or cold temperatures, and if you left the vehicle running and/or open.

Indeed. I don't see how a child is likely to be in more danger alone in a car than with an adult in the car, given your exceptions.

I meant Habeus corpeus, and yes I do. It's supposed to protect the accused against arbitrary state action.

Ah, you see there are two possible interpretations for what you said.

1) The state began to be fucked up with the suspension of HC, and has been fucked up since or:

2) The state hasn't done anything right since the good move of suspending HC.

So you are asserting #1, yes?

The only thing that might excuse the cops' reaction (but NOT the verbal assault) would be if they didn't see Mom leave the car (and therefore didn't know Mom was only 10 yards away until later) and didn't know how long the kids had been left.

Even then, a trial? FFS.

Ah, you see there are two possible interpretations for what you said.

1) The state began to be fucked up with the suspension of HC, and has been fucked up since or:

2) The state hasn't done anything right since the good move of suspending HC.

So you are asserting #1, yes?

Yes, I meant #1.

Indeed. I don't see how a child is likely to be in more danger alone in a car than with an adult in the car, given your exceptions.

It's terrible that there are cases where parents forget their offspring in the car for whatever reason. Nonetheless, were a parent out with their offspring, say on a walk through the park, and then suffered from a stroke...this would not justify declaring it child endangerment to take walks in the park with children out of the sight of other people.

Any number of things COULD happen to a child left in a car for a few minutes. Any number of things could happen to a child in the care of a reasonably alert adult (including, as happened to my daughter this Saturday, breaking an arm while playing)...but child endangerment should not have such a low threshold as what we see in this particular case.

"In common law countries, habeas corpus (IPA: /ˈheɪbiəs ˈkɔɹpəs/) (Latin: [We command] that you have the body) [1] is the name of a legal action, or writ, through which a person can seek relief from unlawful detention of himself or another person. The writ of habeas corpus has historically been an important instrument for the safeguarding of individual freedom against arbitrary state action."

From Wikipedia. But Wilgrove is right, since the War between the States, we have had a lot more problems than before.

Don't make me hurt you.

*makes Neesika hurt me*
:p

The only thing that might excuse the cops' reaction (but NOT the verbal assault) would be if they didn't see Mom leave the car (and therefore didn't know Mom was only 10 yards away until later) and didn't know how long the kids had been left.

Even then, a trial? FFS.

Granted, it would be difficult for a person to know exactly how long the parent was gone, or even who the parent was until he or she returned. And had this woman been on a shopping spree for 20 minutes or an hour, I think a reasonable person would be justified in their outrage at her actions.

Nonetheless, a little more on the spot investigation should have cleared things up.

But check this out (http://www.parentdish.com/2008/03/07/was-it-really-child-endangerment-in-illinois-parking-lot/):

In response to a series of incidents involving people leaving children in hot cars, in June of 2002 a rebuttal presumption was added to the Illinois Child Endangerment statute stating that any person who leaves a child six years of age or younger, unattended in a motor vehicle for more than ten minutes has committed a Class A misdemeanor. The statute further defines "unattended" as either not accompanied by someone fourteen years or older, or if accompanied by someone older than fourteen years the child must be within sight of that person.
So it is a rebuttable presumption...it is ASSUMED that leaving your child for more than ten minutes in the car is child endgangerment, and this woman should be able to prove that she was in sight, therefore defeating it. However, the really fucked up part is this:

while she was being arrested and transported to jail, the girls she had taken to the Salvation Army kettle were left alone in the parking lot and later found huddle on a bench inside Wal-Mart, too terrified by the police officers to ask for help.

THEY DIDN'T TAKE THE CHILDREN WITH THEM!?

There should absolutely be charges for that, for abandoning these children in a parking lot while they crusaded their way to the station with the mother. It sounds like the community officer was in such a self-righteous snit that no attempt was made to determine if there were other children accompanying the mother, and likely, considering the report of the conduct of this officer, the mother probably had no chance to make this known.

Doesn't mean I don't enjoy bruising my own knuckles from time to time.

well, if you want to get bruised I have some ideas....

And check your TGs damnit! :p

someone could have easily come to the car see that there was a baby in the car and take the baby. she could easily take the baby with her. shes just a dumb parent that doesn't deserve her baby.

Granted, it would be difficult for a person to know exactly how long the parent was gone, or even who the parent was until he or she returned. And had this woman been on a shopping spree for 20 minutes or an hour, I think a reasonable person would be justified in their outrage at her actions.

Nonetheless, a little more on the spot investigation should have cleared things up.

But check this out (http://www.parentdish.com/2008/03/07/was-it-really-child-endangerment-in-illinois-parking-lot/):


So it is a rebuttable presumption...it is ASSUMED that leaving your child for more than ten minutes in the car is child endgangerment, and this woman should be able to prove that she was in sight, therefore defeating it. However, the really fucked up part is this:



THEY DIDN'T TAKE THE CHILDREN WITH THEM!?

There should absolutely be charges for that, for abandoning these children in a parking lot while they crusaded their way to the station with the mother. It sounds like the community officer was in such a self-righteous snit that no attempt was made to determine if there were other children accompanying the mother, and likely, considering the report of the conduct of this officer, the mother probably had no chance to make this known.

Holy suffering shitballs. That's... I... Wugh. I have no words.

you' know my parents would leave me in the car when they went supermarket shopping and all I did was listen to the radio and steal all my dads secret candy stash:confused:

someone could have easily come to the car see that there was a baby in the car and take the baby.

In a locked car?

With an alarm active?

With her 100 feet away?

Right. Someone's going to break the window, set off the alarm, snatch the child, and run away :rolleyes:

Why are so many US police officers so deeply fucktarded?
To be fair, it's not necessarily the case that US police are much (if at all) worse than those elsewhere - it's just that there are more of them in the US than there are in most other places (because it's a big country) and there is more pervasive media coverage of what they get up to than there is elsewhere.

Holy suffering shitballs. That's... I... Wugh. I have no words.

It's Chicago. We have an officer (using the term loosely) on video beating the hell out of a bartender and they're only just now getting around to firing him...A FULL YEAR LATER!

There's a reason we went out of town to find a new commisioner.

Right. Someone's going to break the window, set off the alarm, snatch the child, and run away :rolleyes:

a dare is a dare

yea the police WAY overreacted there.:sniper:

someone could have easily come to the car see that there was a baby in the car and take the baby. she could easily take the baby with her. shes just a dumb parent that doesn't deserve her baby.

Awww, first post with your puppet and you forgot all the gun smileys! Bad form that!

Not so easy to take a baby out of a locked car, especially when said car is in direct sight of the mother.

Awww, first post with your puppet and you forgot all the gun smileys! Bad form that!
They'll let anyone post here these days

Not so easy to take a baby out of a locked car, especially when said car is in direct sight of the mother.

Would be kidnappers have magic powers, dontcha know.

Not so easy to take a baby out of a locked car, especially when said car is in direct sight of the mother.
I have enough trouble getting babies out of unlocked cars, even with their parents giving helpful advice as I try... damned fiddly clasps and straps on those child seats, I tell ya :p

you' know my parents would leave me in the car when they went supermarket shopping and all I did was listen to the radio and steal all my dads secret candy stash:confused:

Recently a 12 or 13 year old stayed behind in the car while her mom went in to get groceries. This is pretty common especially among 12 - 13 year olds who are absolutely mortified to be seen with their mother in public. The girl went missing and was found 2 weeks later in a creek, murdered. Whether she got out of the car and was kidnapped, or was enticed out and taken, no one knows, but it freaked me out enough that I take my daughter with me now, even just to run into the school with my eldest. The thing is...kids can be pretty dumb, and even a four year old can get out of her car seat and open the locked door if someone is waving candy at them, no matter how much you tell them to not talk to or have any contact with strangers.

It's a bad world out there, and the way we kids grew up isn't possible for our children anymore. It's sad, but it's a fact. Ha...did you ever have to sit out in the car for being a shit in a restaurant? I can't even threaten my kids with that...they tell me that someone might take them. ARGH!

Once upon a time, long ago when I was in college, my friend and I were driving...somewhere I don't remember. He filled his car up with gas and went inside to pay. While he did this another young woman pulled up next to us, and ran into the store, leaving her young child behind, just for a moment.

I sat and watched the child get out of the car and start to walk towards the street. I started to get out of the car and head him off to stop him when the mother came RUNNING out and grabbed him a few feet from the road edge

I to this day wonder what would have happened if neither one of us noticed.

yea the police WAY overreacted there.:sniper:

There was this one docter who got a parking for something ( I don't remember what) and they sent SWAT team after him. He reached inside a jacket pocket to get something and they shot him. He didn't have a gun when they searched his body, he didn't even have a knife.

This is just one exaple of the many instances of over-reaction in the police force.:(

Would be kidnappers have magic powers, dontcha know.

And mothers whose children are in danger are not creatures one would want to face willingly.

I can only imagine how absolutely panicked this woman would have been once she realised nothing was being to done to secure the safety of her other children.

THEY DIDN'T TAKE THE CHILDREN WITH THEM!?

There should absolutely be charges for that, for abandoning these children in a parking lot while they crusaded their way to the station with the mother. It sounds like the community officer was in such a self-righteous snit that no attempt was made to determine if there were other children accompanying the mother, and likely, considering the report of the conduct of this officer, the mother probably had no chance to make this known.

The part im confused about is why didnt the father have the kids? He was on the scence before she was taken away so custody of the other children should have been his.

PAID 200 an hour? No no no, I could only wish I got paid 200 an hour. 200 an hour would quadruple my salary. No, my firm gets paid 200 an hour for my time. I barely get a quarter of that.

A poor lawyer? Naaa I don't belive it.:D

Once upon a time, long ago when I was in college, my friend and I were driving...somewhere I don't remember. He filled his car up with gas and went inside to pay. While he did this another young woman pulled up next to us, and ran into the store, leaving her young child behind, just for a moment.

I sat and watched the child get out of the car and start to walk towards the street. I started to get out of the car and head him off to stop him when the mother came RUNNING out and grabbed him a few feet from the road edge

I to this day wonder what would have happened if neither one of us noticed.
Good point.

I've caught my four year old wiggling out of her restraints, and the 6 year old has absolutely no problem opening the locked door and getting out.

Then again, if we were never able to make our children understand the danger of stepping into a street without looking, or chewing their food before swallowing, or not drinking toilet water...well, our children would not be long for this world. We can not have our children in physical restraints every moment we are not right there to monitor their every move. It will always have to be a balance between possible danger, and how close we must watch our kids.

A poor lawyer? Naaa I don't belive it.:D

$50 an hour is poor?

The part im confused about is why didnt the father have the kids? He was on the scence before she was taken away so custody of the other children should have been his.

The reports aren't clear on this, but what appears to have happened is the kids were spooked, and went inside the WalMart, where they were eventually discovered. When the husband arrive, the wife was in custody at the scene, and the kids appear to have been gone by then. Figuring out where his kids were, while worrying about what was happening to his wife, must have been a very harrowing experience.

$50 an hour is poor?

An electrical contractor can make near that here in Alberta.

It's okay, but it's not wealth :P

If the police is going to take action, it should be the sort that locks up child molesters and either keeps them locked up forever, or puts them out of existance. That would have a big effect on this sort of sitiuation.

An electrical contractor can make near that here in Alberta.

It's okay, but it's not wealth :P

I guess by your standards I'm positively destitute then, on a good day I make about $18 an hour (I don't get paid by the hour).

If the police is going to take action, it should be the sort that locks up child molesters and either keeps them locked up forever, or puts them out of existance. That would have a big effect on this sort of sitiuation.

Uh...

Locking up child molesters would have a big effect on an amendment that was passed because of the deaths of children due to extreme temperatures? Maybe you'd enlighten me as to how that is so.

I guess by your standards I'm positively destitute then, on a good day I make about $18 an hour (I don't get paid by the hour).

Pauper.

Depends...does a bachelor suite go for $1800/month where you live? The cost of living here is absolutely outrageous.

Pauper.

Depends...does a bachelor suite go for $1800/month where you live? The cost of living here is absolutely outrageous.

Umm, no my mortgage is $800 a month for a three bedroom house.

If the police is going to take action, it should be the sort that locks up child molesters and either keeps them locked up forever, or puts them out of existance. That would have a big effect on this sort of sitiuation.

Yes, because if there weren't child molesters than the temperature inside a car would always stay comfortable...
:rolleyes:

Uh...

Locking up child molesters would have a big effect on an amendment that was passed because of the deaths of children due to extreme temperatures? Maybe you'd enlighten me as to how that is so.

I was thinking of the instance that was mentioned about the girl that disappered and was found murdered. And I don't really follow this kind of debate thingy very well.

I was thinking of the instance that was mentioned about the girl that disappered and was found murdered. And I don't really follow this kind of debate thingy very well.

Best way to make it clear what you are referring to is to use that little quote button on the lower right corner of the post you are responding to.

I get confused.:headbang::(

Best way to make it clear what you are referring to is to use that little quote button on the lower right corner of the post you are responding to.

Okay, thanks.

I get confused.:headbang::(

As do we all at times, no worries... you won't get http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff315/Sarothai/HammerVSmilie.gif every time. ;)

As do we all at times, no worries... you won't get http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff315/Sarothai/HammerVSmilie.gif every time. ;)

Yup! That's me underneath the hammer. Pretty recent pic of me too.... I woder how they got it?...

WHAT THE HECK?

They arrest her for leaving her 2 year old alone for a minute yet in plain sight...

Yet they leave her other children alone when they drag her off in cuffs?

These police should be fired and arrested.

This woman was arrested for child endangerment for leaving baby in car for a few minutes in a parking lot but never went into the store or went farther from the car then 10 yards. She just took her other kids to a Salvation Army kettle to donate some money into it and to teach her children lessons about charity. .This is definatly a case where the police jumped the gun and overreacted and I dont see this holding up in court. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080312/ap_on_re_us/mom_on_trial;_ylt=AtztvgQlBQ9CYI1GKRDXsyFH2ocA

it's not just jumping the gun and overreacting, it's blatant abuse of power and the pigs ought to be sacked. any abuse of power by the fuzz ought to be punished by instant dismissal, you can't honourably let that kind of person retain a position of power within a comunity. it's just stupid. retarded even.

Why are so many US police officers so deeply fucktarded?

because most never go to college and can't do anything else.

WTF? Here it can get 110+ in the summer, so usually when i see these things im like fine she shouldn't have done that. Some kid always dies in the summer after being in the car too long, but even in 110 degree heat being less than ten yards away just for a few minutes with the A/C running isn't that bad...but here it was raining. I fail to see how this was child endangerment.....She could see the thing the whole time for crying out loud.

Good news, the charges against her have been dropped.
The policemen should be reprimanded by their superiors for this.
Also, can someone sue the police in this case? I would.

I think the police reacted fairly, so there :p

Exactly.

Who the heck leaves their baby alone in a car?

Thirty feet is too far away in my opinion.

Best way to make it clear what you are referring to is to use that little quote button on the lower right corner of the post you are responding to.

Don't the timewarps make that necessary regardless? Speaking of which, whaddafxupwitdat?

Don't the timewarps make that necessary regardless? Speaking of which, whaddafxupwitdat?

Time warp? What time warp? Clearly we need to up your dosage... :p

Don't the timewarps make that necessary regardless? Speaking of which, whaddafxupwitdat?
Jolt has several different servers. As you post, whichever server you happen to go through puts a time-stamp on it which determines how the thread is sorted. Unfortunately, the clocks on the various servers are steadily drifting further and further apart.

Jolt has several different servers. As you post, whichever server you happen to go through puts a time-stamp on it which determines how the thread is sorted. Unfortunately, the clocks on the various servers are steadily drifting further and further apart.
Have they never heard of ntp? Or Symmetricom, Datum, Bancomm and all those other wonderful time references?

someone could have easily come to the car see that there was a baby in the car and take the baby. she could easily take the baby with her. shes just a dumb parent that doesn't deserve her baby.

Did you read the article? Did you gloss over the part where the weather was described as "sleeting?"

Frankly, she'd be a dumber parent for risking her child's health by taking her out into such adverse weather conditions for an unknown period of time when it wasn't absolutely necessary.

That aside, the car was locked, which meant that the windows would have to be smashed. It was alarmed so there would be lots of noise in addition to breaking glass. The car's blinkers were all on which meant that everyone in sight was probably looking at it. It was in a loading zone which is generally not the proper place to park and get still more people looking at it. The owner, despite the weather conditions, was easily wtihin ear and eye shot of the vehicle. I have yet to see a Wal-Mart (outside of the Hyper-mart in Kansas City) where any part of the loading zones are not within easy hearing/viewing range of the entrances where Salvation Army personnel work.

I think it would be almost impossible for someone to break into her car to kidnap her child without the woman seeing/hearing this person, grabbing the donation kettle, and braining the kidnapper with it.

Good news, the charges against her have been dropped.
The policemen should be reprimanded by their superiors for this.
Also, can someone sue the police in this case? I would.

There's a topic about some guy who got tasered a couple times by a police officer and arrested during a traffic stop for speeding. His only crime other than speeding (and he got pulled over by an officer who slowed down, not stopped, less than 10 seconds after passing a speed limit sign going by the dashcam) was being a dumbass.

he filed civil charges against the officer and they settled out of court for $40,000. Seems like you can sue, and win after a fashion.

Recently a 12 or 13 year old stayed behind in the car while her mom went in to get groceries. This is pretty common especially among 12 - 13 year olds who are absolutely mortified to be seen with their mother in public. The girl went missing and was found 2 weeks later in a creek, murdered. Whether she got out of the car and was kidnapped, or was enticed out and taken, no one knows, but it freaked me out enough that I take my daughter with me now, even just to run into the school with my eldest. The thing is...kids can be pretty dumb, and even a four year old can get out of her car seat and open the locked door if someone is waving candy at them, no matter how much you tell them to not talk to or have any contact with strangers.

It's a bad world out there, and the way we kids grew up isn't possible for our children anymore. It's sad, but it's a fact. Ha...did you ever have to sit out in the car for being a shit in a restaurant? I can't even threaten my kids with that...they tell me that someone might take them. ARGH!

My mom left me in the car once recently because I was eating but then there was a bug flying around bothering me, so I tried to open a window but it wouldn't open. Then I tried to open the door and it wouldn't work, and the car alarm went off, which pretty nearly disabled me for a little while since at that point I had had a headache for a week straight (3 weeks straight now).

Is that what cars usually do? My mom says she didn't know why it did that...

It's a bad world out there, and the way we kids grew up isn't possible for our children anymore. It's sad, but it's a fact. Ha...did you ever have to sit out in the car for being a shit in a restaurant? I can't even threaten my kids with that...they tell me that someone might take them. ARGH!

Not necessarily. I can't say for the US, but this is the prevailing view held in the UK, but here at least the world is getting safer for children, it's just the media that brings increased exposure to stories of things going wrong that have convinced people things are getting worse.

Crimes fallen every year for the last decade here, but fear of crime has risen and everyone you talk to believes that crime is rising because they see that much more of it in media.

I dont leave my kids in the car and my wife doesnt either.

The price is too high.


You always think -Its ok, I'll be close, I'll only be a second, whatever- but thats always what you here the parents of victims say.
You may have intended to be quick, but there are circumstances tat could arise to hold you up.

So-yeah-dragging your kids all over the place can be irritating, but the alternative could be so much worse.