NationStates Jolt Archive

wiki linky:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_general_election%2C_2008

also see: thread titled "Italian elections 2008: who will win?" with poll

this thread is about your choice. the other thread is about what you think it will happen.

Berlusconi.

edit: whoops, totally wrong.

Disregard this post...

Not Berlusconi's party. I just don't trust the man. And it's not just because he's a Bushevik. He just strikes me as crooked. Hell, the man even looks like a crook.

First...

...after President Giorgio Napolitano dissolved parliament on February 6, 2008 following the defeat of the government of Prime Minister Romano Prodi in a January 2008 Senate vote,[2] and a unsuccessful tentative appointment of Franco Marini as temporary Prime Minister...

This, to me, sort of sums up Italian politics, whenever I get tired of a two party system I look at the alternatives and think, well in a nice world they'd work but in our world they just don't seem to.

I've long held the idea of simply banning political parties, you run as an individual but I've not taken the time to work out how this might work properly.

Second, I'd like to hear your own thoughts on Silvio Berlusconi looking to be the favourite, can this really be so? I guess people are of the thinking that he can at least get things done regardless of how but, and I could be wrong, he just seems to be an outright criminal to me - I also have issues with media owners and politicians being the same thing.

I feel the media should be as separate as the executive is from the judiciary, not that this is actually the case too often.

Having said all that, I would like these guys to win...

# Critical Left – Flavia D'Angeli

...for no other reason than I like the idea of a party aimed purely at just being critical - oh my god, your shoes so don't match your shirt - and then I especially like the idea of them being in power, it kind of defeats the purpose of their party - all this regardless of what they actually stand for, it's just my head...

EDIT: I've now changed my allegiance to La Sinistra L'Arcobaleno (Bertinotti)

I know La Sinistra means The Left but it sounds fantastic in English.

We are La Sinistra L'Arcobaloney, fear our leader Bertie Naughty.

First...



This, to me, sort of sums up Italian politics, whenever I get tired of a two party system I look at the alternatives and think, well in a nice world they'd work but in our world they just don't seem to.
Worked for more than 40 years here... since the 1993 reform of the electoral law abolishing the proportional law (and the subsequent 2006 reform, proportional with large prize -54% of the seats at the Camera- for the party of relative majority) things have gone totally shitty.


I've long held the idea of simply banning political parties, you run as an individual but I've not taken the time to work out how this might work properly.
Won't. You'd simply have "hidden" parties.


Second, I'd like to hear your own thoughts on Silvio Berlusconi looking to be the favourite, can this really be so?

poll by SKY-TG24, 11.03.08
PD+IDV 36,0%
PS 0,5%
Sinistra Arcobaleno 7,5%
PdL+LN+MPA 45,0%
UdC 7,0%
Destra Tricolore 2,5%
sum of other minor 1,5%



I feel the media should be as separate as the executive is from the judiciary, not that this is actually the case too often.

This is surely what it happens in Italy... NOT. :(
Note that the even the parties who formed the PD (DS and DL-Margherita) have refused to make a law against media/advertisement trusts in the last two years when they could win a parliamentary majority on that.

We are La Sinistra L'Arcobaloney, fear our leader Bertie Naughty.
LOL!

Find it hard to get a feel for what each of the parties actually represent - what differentiates the policies of all the different left wing parties? All I do know is that I would not vote for Berlusconi.

edit: with so many different parties do the smaller ones tend to be single issue?

I probably wouldn't bother. Seems a wee bit pointless, doesn't it?

Still, I loathe Berlusconi with a passion, so I might still go just for a protest vote. But I can't find a proper liberal party, so I'd probably go for Lega Sud Ausonia, just for the fun of it.

I tend to view the US and Italy as polar opposites on the "How not to organize a party-based democracy" spectrum.

Too few parties sucks....too many equally so.

Find it hard to get a feel for what each of the parties actually represent - what differentiates the policies of all the different left wing parties? All I do know is that I would not vote for Berlusconi.

Generically speaking:
Berlusconi's alliance: pro-industry, strongly pro-Bush, somewhat protectionist, pro-nuclear, anti-wind and solar power
Veltroni's alliance: pro-compromise between industry and workers, generically pro-America but not pro-Bush, compromise between catholic values and laicitè, economically liberist
Bertinotti's: pro-workers, generically anti-Bush, strongly for civil liberties and laicitè, economically social-democrat, anti-nuclear pro-wind and solar power
Casini's: economically centrist, strongly for catholic values, anti-abortion, pro-nuclear


edit: with so many different parties do the smaller ones tend to be single issue?
Nope.

But I can't find a proper liberal party

Well, the Partito Radicale is the most properly liberal party - they've been given places in the electoral lists by the PD.

Generically speaking:
Berlusconi's alliance: pro-industry, strongly pro-Bush, somewhat protectionist, pro-nuclear, anti-wind and solar power
Veltroni's alliance: pro-compromise between industry and workers, generically pro-America but not pro-Bush, compromise between catholic values and laicitè, economically liberist
Bertinotti's: pro-workers, generically anti-Bush, strongly for civil liberties and laicitè, economically social-democrat, anti-nuclear pro-wind and solar power
Casini's: economically centrist, strongly for catholic values, anti-abortion, pro-nuclear


Nope.

Thanks, it is a really interesting mix - I can see the benefits of greater choice than we have in the UK. I am guessing laicite means a secular state?

I wouldn't vote for anyone as I'm neither Italian nor am I a Nintendo icon :p

however sloshing through the options:

Well, the Partito Radicale is the most properly liberal party - they've been given places in the electoral lists by the PD.

why is it your government only has one serious party with lots and lots of joke options? (however I wouldn't really vote for them either as beyond the civil liberties it gets rather crazy)

Anyone except Berlusconi, he was one of the most awful Western leaders I can think of.

I've long held the idea of simply banning political parties, you run as an individual but I've not taken the time to work out how this might work properly.
For the US, remove the absurd requirements to get on the ballot. But it would just result in people who are independently wealthy/businessmen running for office.

First...

I've long held the idea of simply banning political parties, you run as an individual but I've not taken the time to work out how this might work properly.

Cuba - Political parties aren't allowed nominate or campaign for a candidate. :p


Realistically, partyless system can be as bad as single/bi-party system: Dictatorship of majority.

In multiple party systems people in power are usually forced to negotiate and compromise to make legislation work - Something which prevents abuse of power.

Coincidentally, IMO, strong president is required for bi-party system to work more democratically while in multiple party system strong president - even though nominally partyless - would still probably favor one party over another and would therefore be a hindrance to democracy.

edit:
I'd vote for Berlusconi: Corruption FTW!

Well, the Partito Radicale is the most properly liberal party - they've been given places in the electoral lists by the PD.
Hmmm, you're quite right. But with the stupid system as it is, a vote for them won't actually give me any of their policies. And Italy could really use them too (http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?story_id=10431767), if you asked me.

Mario.

http://www.mtv.com/games/video_games/images/promoimages/d/dime/e3_06s_most_anticipated/super_mario_revolution.jpg

Mario 08

Mario.

Beaten to it...:(

Why bother? It'll only collapse in another 6 or so months.

What does Santanche stand for?

What does Santanche stand for?

Neo-fascism.
The reference to the "fiamma tricolore" is taken from the old symbol of the MSI, successor to Mussolini's puppet state party (Partito Nazionale Fascista - Repubblica Sociale Italiana) - it symbolises the spirit of fascist Italy rising as tri-coloured flame from Mussolini's grave.

Pfft!! participate in elections! Bring back the Red Brigades!

Pfft!! participate in elections! Bring back the Red Brigades!

Some Italians might be offended by this. Heck! Italian COMMUNISTS might be offended by this.
What you say Soudruhu Risottia?

Oh, and I'll take the None of the above option.

Some Italians might be offended by this. Heck! Italian COMMUNISTS might be offended by this.
What you say Soudruhu Risottia?

Compagno Velka Morava, obviously I despise the Red Brigades.
Their achievements were:
1.killing communists, socialists, social-democrats and workers' union leaders
2.allowing the most reactionary parts of the State to enact the "Strategia della tensione" (Bologna railway station massacre, Piazza della Loggia-Brescia massacre, Piazza Fontana-Milano massacre) with the subsequent police-state-style repression against anything that looked "red"
3.blocking the "historical compromise" between the Democrazia Cristiana and the Partito Comunista by kidnapping and killing the DC president Aldo Moro
4.allowing the transformation of the Partito Socialista (see Bettino Craxi)
5.wasting the potential for change introduced by the '68 movement

Fuck the Red Brigades.

Oh, and I'll take the None of the above option.
I knew. I'm beginning to like that option, too.:(

I knew. I'm beginning to like that option, too.:(

You Commies go with whom The Thing or Berty Naughty?

I mourn at Radicals going with The Thing.

Note for the non-italian-politics-aware The Thing is a derogative name of the Partito Democratico.

EDIT: Hey! Where's Fini?