NationStates Jolt Archive

On his radio program, ultra-conservative pundit Rush Limbaugh recently stated that, as to the Democrats considering having an Obama-Clinton ticket during the general election, "A black and a woman? They don't have a prayer."

Many media commentators described this statement as a "simple observation," and suggested that the sexist overtones clearly outweighed any possible racist implications. Commentators then concluded that the statement was simply a reflection of what many Americans are thinking and/or discussing among their most trusted friends and family.

Limbaugh's opinion is not what troubles me; I wrote him off as a neandrathol years ago (remember the "femi-Nazi" comment, and his "do as I say not as I do" approach to drug abuse?)

What troubles me is that he felt comfortable saying it publically, and that he was given a pass by practically every quarter of the media across the political and ideological spectrum.

Are the media commentators correct? Are there Americans who are troubled by the prospect of electing an African-American or female president? Affixing labels of "racism" and "sexism" is far too simple, in my opinion. There's something more at work here.

Consider, for example, that the media has taken extraordinary steps in analyzing and dissecting the racial and gender makeup of the voting blocks for Obama and Clinton. What possible relevance do these factors have to the election of a president? I had the feeling, particularly when Hillary's rhetoric changed prior to the Texas & Ohio elections, that the media was not simply reporting the breakdown, but questioning why so many whites (male and female) were voting for Obama.

They did this under the guise of almost incessant reports of "Hillary's losing her base" and "Obama's cut into Clinton's base."

Did anyone else feel the sea-change of emotion prior to the Texas/Ohio elections? The country seemed so optimistic prior to those primaries/caucuses. Then the attack ads came, and the media pounced after taking Hillary's bait of "you're taking it too easy on Obama."

During the evening of the Ohio primary, once the state was projected for Clinton, MSNBC's Andrea Mitchell participated in a panel discussion during the election returns. The panel was being moderated by Oberman and Matthews.

Watch the coverage yourself, and notice how Mitchell refers to the return of white males to Clinton's camp. I'm not being paranoid here, folx; watch for yourself and judge.

I'm not feeling nearly as optimistic about this Democratic nomination process as I once did. Something ugly has reared its head; something which has overtones which have not been seen in this country since the dreaded "Willie Horton" days. Race, gender and religion are being bandied about as political weapons; inflicting wounds in the midst of what was supposed to be an "election for change."

I'm interested in your opinions.

You need to change your radio station. Problem solved.

Rush is a loud-mouthed douchebag. Rush issue addressed.

Rush Limbaugh is a shock jock, who has made a fortune by being a ridiculous douchebag. I'd say your best bet is to ignore everything he says.

Something ugly has reared its head; something which has overtones which have not been seen in this country since the dreaded "Willie Horton" days. Race, gender and religion are being bandied about as political weapons; inflicting wounds in the midst of what was supposed to be an "election for change."



I would never vote based on something as silly as race or gender. But thinking there aren't people who would seems naive. Of course people are going to be racist and sexist; since when have we been 100% tolerant?

When it comes down to how people vote in a general election, yes there will be a few who see gender and color, but most of them are going to vote based on rhetoric. It's not really something I would worry about. And if Rush said it, it's not even worth thinking about.

The prevailing theory about Rush Limbaugh's origins and the explaination as to why he was practically non-existent before the mid 80s is this...

Remember that cancerous growth they removed from Ronald Reagan's nose? Apparently it survived, grew a body and became a radio host. ;)

Reminds me of a horribly inappropriate joke I was told yesterday.



Professional exterminators have been called to the White House, apparently a Coon and a Beaver keep trying to get in. Ouch.

It's racist not to vote for Obama

Honestly there are idiots out there who will vote/not vote for someone because of their gender or race.

I slap my forehead every time a woman says she is voting for Clinton because it would be nice to have a woman in the White House, and with the number of times I have heard it my forehead is getting pretty sore.

I haven't actually heard any black voters say they are voting for Obama because of his skin color but I have a feeling that that is the case for some of the black voters. It's frustrating that people are choosing their vote over such trivial reasons.

The best effort we could make right now is to come up with a catchy song to put on YouTube that makes fun of such people and hope it goes viral so the people who think that way feel stupid and look closer at the issues instead. A chance in hell of it working? 1 in eleventeen

Fair enough. But my concern is less for Limbaugh than it is the apparent concession by the less-biased media that he was making an "observation" rather than expressing a rather ugly implication regarding the state of race & gender relations in the U.S..

Rush is a loud-mouthed douchebag. Rush issue addressed.

Yeah but he makes a lot of money doing it.

Do you have a link to the quote?

Regardless - what is racist about speculating that the US is too racist or misogynistic to vote for them? ARe liberals the only ones allowed to use these labels?

To answer the question... not until we see Limpbaugh turning the pressure hose and attack dogs on Obama and Clinthulhu.

Having to tolerate people you don't like saying things you don't like/don't agree with in public is a disagreeable but necessary function of the whole 'freedom of speech' principle. You don't like what you hear on the radio, do what I do every time I hear a rap song or Al Franken and reach for the 'Off' button.

Fair enough. But my concern is less for Limbaugh than it is the apparent concession by the less-biased media that he was making an "observation" rather than expressing a rather ugly implication regarding the state of race & gender relations in the U.S..

its not racist and its not sexist.

its a terrible insult to the US electorate.

its not racist and its not sexist.

its a terrible insult to the US electorate.

I've not seen any evidence he actually said it, but it is only an insult to those to whom it does not apply. You, of all people, would know that there are plenty of misogynists out there - and at least as many racists. Whether there are enough to sway an election is yet to be determined... And separating them from those who genuinely disagree with the policies of the candidates may likely prove impossible. (though there are plenty who will be glad to assign those labels to anyone who disagrees with their policies)

Apparently, the new Bull Connor is Geraldine Ferraro. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080311/pl_afp/usvote)

"If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman -- of any color -- he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept," Ferraro said."

I've not seen any evidence he actually said it, but it is only an insult to those to whom it does not apply. You, of all people, would know that there are plenty of misogynists out there - and at least as many racists. Whether there are enough to sway an election is yet to be determined... And separating them from those who genuinely disagree with the policies of the candidates may likely prove impossible. (though there are plenty who will be glad to assign those labels to anyone who disagrees with their policies)

there are misogynists and racists but i wouldnt suggest that the US electorate is so sexist and racist that they would not consider voting for a woman or an african american simply because of gender or race.

in any case, we'll find out soon enough eh?

there are misogynists and racists but i wouldnt suggest that the US electorate is so sexist and racist that they would not consider voting for a woman or an african american simply because of gender or race.

in any case, we'll find out soon enough eh?

Nah - only extremists on both sides will be able to speculate about the motives of the electorate. I don't know of any scientific study which has been done to determine how prevalent the number of people are for whom those would be motivating issues.

I've not seen any evidence he actually said it, but it is only an insult to those to whom it does not apply. You, of all people, would know that there are plenty of misogynists out there - and at least as many racists. Whether there are enough to sway an election is yet to be determined... And separating them from those who genuinely disagree with the policies of the candidates may likely prove impossible. (though there are plenty who will be glad to assign those labels to anyone who disagrees with their policies)

"RUSH ARCHIVE: Let's say it is Obama and Hillary. Hillary-Obama. Let's put Hillary at the top. Hillary on top. That's a position she's familiar with. Therefore you've got a woman and a black first time ever on the Democrat ticket. (laughs) It doesn't even have a prayer."'

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_031008/content/01125106.guest.html

i dont know if the link will come up for you, i got it off googlenews and it indicated that its normally a subscription site.

if you read through the transcript--and i just breezed through it--youll see him trying to claim that he meant something else. i dont see that it is anything but what it seems to be and rush is trying to pretend that he didnt put his foot in his mouth.

No, Limbaugh is not the new Bull Connor. Once he sics attack dogs on people protesting peacefully for their civil rights, or hoses down said people with firehoses, then maybe he will be. But as it stands, he's simply a bigot, a moron, and a cantankerous asshole worthy only of condemnation, ridicule, and ostracism.

"RUSH ARCHIVE: Let's say it is Obama and Hillary. Hillary-Obama. Let's put Hillary at the top. Hillary on top. That's a position she's familiar with. Therefore you've got a woman and a black first time ever on the Democrat ticket. (laughs) It doesn't even have a prayer."'

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_031008/content/01125106.guest.html

i dont know if the link will come up for you, i got it off googlenews and it indicated that its normally a subscription site.

if you read through the transcript--and i just breezed through it--youll see him trying to claim that he meant something else. i dont see that it is anything but what it seems to be and rush is trying to pretend that he didnt put his foot in his mouth.

So the question is - did he say the ticket doesn'yhave a 'prayer' because it is a woman and a black, or because it is Obama and Clinton? Taken out of context it could be either... I don't give Rush's transcript much consideration, but I also don't give much thought to a single sentence out of context;

"We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." - H. CLinton (http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/marxist.asp)

Having to tolerate people you don't like saying things you don't like/don't agree with in public is a disagreeable but necessary function of the whole 'freedom of speech' principle. You don't like what you hear on the radio, do what I do every time I hear a rap song or Al Franken and reach for the 'Off' button.

Two knobs or buttons on the radio. One turns it off and the other changes the station. Hallelujah.

As for Rush's comments, I heard the very show in question, and his "doesn't have a prayer" line was really kinda muffled and delivered with minimal diction. It wasn't racist or sexist, it was anti-Democrat, and as far as I can tell, that's still protected speech, whether I agree with it or not.

And yes, I listen to right-wing radio. Two reasons: A) know your opponent and be able to call them when they quote one of these semigogues verbatim, and B) keeps me awake on tedious drives in North Dakota by making me scream things like "that's not true, you pig-eyed sack of shit" at the radio.

"If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman -- of any color -- he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept," Ferraro said."

But since she's a Democrat, you won't hear anywhere near as much about this from the media as you did about Trent Lott, who if memory serves made a similar but less blatant comment. Nor will she be made to publicly eat as huge a pile of ordure as he had to before the Fifth Estate stopping painting a white hood on him.

So the question is - did he say the ticket doesn'yhave a 'prayer' because it is a woman and a black, or because it is Obama and Clinton? Taken out of context it could be either... I don't give Rush's transcript much consideration, but I also don't give much thought to a single sentence out of context;

"We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." - H. CLinton (http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/marxist.asp)

rush has a history of saying outrageous things then trying to dance away from them. i think he meant it just as it is in the transcript.

if he didnt mean "a woman and a black" he wouldnt have said it.

But since she's a Democrat, you won't hear anywhere near as much about this from the media as you did about Trent Lott, who if memory serves made a similar but less blatant comment. Nor will she be made to publicly eat as huge a pile of ordure as he had to before the Fifth Estate stopping painting a white hood on him.

or maybe because no one has heard word one out of ms ferraro since 1984.

But since she's a Democrat, you won't hear anywhere near as much about this from the media as you did about Trent Lott, who if memory serves made a similar but less blatant comment. Nor will she be made to publicly eat as huge a pile of ordure as he had to before the Fifth Estate stopping painting a white hood on him.

or not.

everyone is reporting it and making a big deal out of it.

maybe she is senile; this is her latest quote

" 'Any time anybody does anything that in any way pulls this campaign down and says let's address reality and the problems we're facing in this world, you're accused of being racist, so you have to shut up,' Ferraro said. 'Racism works in two different directions. I really think they're attacking me because I'm white. How's that?'..."

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03/11/757137.aspx

"RUSH ARCHIVE: Let's say it is Obama and Hillary. Hillary-Obama. Let's put Hillary at the top. Hillary on top. That's a position she's familiar with. Therefore you've got a woman and a black first time ever on the Democrat ticket. (laughs) It doesn't even have a prayer."'

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_031008/content/01125106.guest.html
Maybe Limbaugh is talking about the perceived secularism of the Democrats. ("It doesn't...have a prayer.") Yes, that's it. Rush Limbaugh isn't a big, fat idiot, he is just commentating on how the public views the party. *Phew* I feel better now.

Maybe Limbaugh is talking about the perceived secularism of the Democrats. ("It doesn't...have a prayer.") Yes, that's it. Rush Limbaugh isn't a big, fat idiot, he is just commentating on how the public views the party. *Phew* I feel better now.

lol

its so obvious to me now.

Someone aught to ask Limbaugh how the underaged prostitutes in the Carribean are.

Yeah, I don't think Ferraro's living in reality. She said that his campaign was 'worried' and that's why 'such a big deal' was being made. Obama beat Hillary in Mississippi of all places and Alabama.(speaking of Bull Connor, he must be spinning in his grave about that piece of news) At this point, he's probably more worried about McCain then he is Hillary.

Oh, and apropos of the thread topic, Rush is not the new 'Bull' Connor because Rush is not a life-long Democrat. Nor has he ever turned fire hoses and set dogs on people.

The better question is, is Keith Olberman the new Josef Goebbels?

Yeah, I don't think Ferraro's living in reality. She said that his campaign was 'worried' and that's why 'such a big deal' was being made. Obama beat Hillary in Mississippi of all places and Alabama.

Not really all that relevant. While Mississippi is a heavy republican state, Obama beat Hillary in a deomcratic primary, where the only people who could vote were registered democrats. The more arch-conservative elements of the deep south didn't vote in democrat primaries.

Rush is not the new 'Bull' Connor because Rush is not a life-long Democrat. Nor has he ever turned fire hoses and set dogs on people.
At least not as far as we know... Plus his last name isn't Connor. Funny that no one mentioned that.:p

I wonder if Geraldine Ferraro is the new Bull Connor?

1988 - "If Jesse Jackson were not black, he wouldn't be in the race," she said.

2008 - "If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman [of any colour], he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept."

Ah, is she saying that he's the "affirmative action" candidate (and therefore unqualified). Or is she saying he's the "white guilt" candidate (and therefore unqualified).

I'm sorry, I can't let her off the hook for this anymore than I have to listen to spew from Rush Limbaugh.

So the question is - did he say the ticket doesn'yhave a 'prayer' because it is a woman and a black, or because it is Obama and Clinton? Taken out of context it could be either... I don't give Rush's transcript much consideration, but I also don't give much thought to a single sentence out of context;

"We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." - H. CLinton (http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/marxist.asp)


'Skeptic' is right. At some point, when does the word "is" simply mean "is?" You're suggesting that the one sentence is taken "out of context," and yet ignore the context of the comment----that a political party putting a black and a woman on a presidential election ticket has no chance of winning. That's why he specifically used the words "black" and "woman."

I assume he understood those terms when he used them.

The better question is, is Keith Olberman the new Josef Goebbels?

More akin to Winchell or Murrow, methinks. Josef Goebbels would be O'Reilly's inspiration. And Coultergeist's.

I wonder if Geraldine Ferraro is the new Bull Connor?

1988 - "If Jesse Jackson were not black, he wouldn't be in the race," she said.

2008 - "If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman [of any colour], he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept."

Ah, is she saying that he's the "affirmative action" candidate (and therefore unqualified). Or is she saying he's the "white guilt" candidate (and therefore unqualified).

I'm sorry, I can't let her off the hook for this anymore than I have to listen to spew from Rush Limbaugh.

The fact that she followed up these comments with an accusation that her detractors----Obama's campaign reps and many, many other political observers---are guilty of "reverse racsim" and are only attacking her "because she's white" suggests that she is either:

----completely out of touch with what racism & reverse-racism are,

or

----completely in tune with what will drive more white voters away from the Obama camp and---presumably---toward Clinton.

I believe this will backfire, and in the most damaging way possible to the Democrats; it will reinforce the bias toward Republicans that emerged in the South post-1960's.

Those inclined to avoid voting for a non-white are very likely the same crew who'll, when the time comes in the general election, avoid voting for a woman.

This really is a "kitchen-sink" strategy. I guess Hillary doesn't take the prospect of losing very well.