NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23541454/

If you kiss any child under 10, Virginia says you are a sex offender for the rest of your life. Any thoughts?

Why was he french kissing a ten year old?

Eww, weird and disgusting, as a straight man I'd rather french kiss a man than a child. Why would anyone even want to do that with a child?

Well, if a grown adult is french kissing someone who is under 13, you gotta wonder how much farther they might try to go.

I think its a good way to put red flags up on possible molesters/pedophilia types.

Any thoughts?
I think he's a creep, but I don't think it qualifies as sexual battery. It may very well lead to that, and there's no way in hell I'd let my kid around him, but lifelong registration as a sex offender doesn't quite fit the act he did commit.

Why was he french kissing a ten year old?
Who gives half a shit why he was doing it?! No reason he can give would possibly justify it.

registration as a sex offender is a bit fierce, but it still doesn't give him a right like that. :fluffle: No.

Jeez, I had my first kiss when I was 6 and my first snog when I was 12. Nothing in the world wrong with that, for goodness sake.

I do agree that a 62-year-old man snogging a 10-year-old girl is kind of creepy though, but assuming that she didn't give consent (which I cannot for the life of me imagine she did, but who knows?), wouldn't that be covered by existing sexual assault laws anyway?

There is a difference between kissing a kid on top of the head or on the cheek, and kissing a kid on their genitals or thrusting your tongue down their throat.

YEAH, I'd say French kissing a minor is wrong!

Hey, what happens if a pair of twelve-year-olds decide to do it? Are they both sex offenders?

eww I can imagine him popping out his teeth and giving me a big slobbery one!

er...yeah thats pretty messed up but its not really sex what with the child no exploiting the man for every penny he has

Who gives half a shit why he was doing it?! No reason he can give would possibly justify it.

maybe he was sucking out poison or something :p

Hey, what happens if a pair of twelve-year-olds decide to do it? Are they both sex offenders?

they catch cooties

If an adult is French kissing someone under the age of 10, it's hard to see how it could be anything but a sexual assault.

Mr Clinton, you don't need an act to be "sex" in order for it to be a sexual offense.

So this is not at all Virginia declaring that "kissing is sex."

Whether or not this is a sexual assault had nothing to do with why this law was passed. This is a knee-jerk feel good law in response to a single incident which will result in a bunch of unintentional fuck ups happening that the legislature will refuse to fix for fear of looking soft on crime.

Caesar gives this decision a thumbs down.

Whether or not this is a sexual assault had nothing to do with why this law was passed. This is a knee-jerk feel good law in response to a single incident which will result in a bunch of unintentional fuck ups happening that the legislature will refuse to fix for fear of looking soft on crime.

Caesar gives this decision a thumbs down.

This is a law clarifying existing sexual offense laws.

Ceasar was assisinated. :p

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23541454/

If you kiss any child under 10, Virginia says you are a sex offender for the rest of your life. Any thoughts?

Why was he french kissing a ten year old?I'm trying to understand why this wouldn't be covered under existing Virginia law...

Hey, what happens if a pair of twelve-year-olds decide to do it? Are they both sex offenders?in the US and in Iran yes and maybe in other countries too

I'm trying to understand why this wouldn't be covered under existing Virginia law...

It was, but apparently not harshly enough for the satisfaction of the parents.

This is a law clarifying existing sexual offense laws.

Ceasar was assisinated. :p
Caesar was a title :P

Hey, what happens if a pair of twelve-year-olds decide to do it? Are they both sex offenders?

no only the one whose parent isnt a nutcase who will call the cops because timmy and sally were french kissing is the sex offender.

this is the problem with passing a law designed to punish one man. do the french kissers of underaged children really need to be hounded and persecuted for the rest of their lives?

sure there is no good reason for an adult to be sticking his tongue into the mouth of a 10 year old but is it a reason to be on the registry forever?

this is the problem with passing a law designed to punish one man. do the french kissers of underaged children really need to be hounded and persecuted for the rest of their lives?I'm leaning towards yes on that, but it seems silly to create a law specifically for this purpose.

I'm leaning towards yes on that, but it seems silly to create a law specifically for this purpose.

Personally, I would disagree.
I think that, yes, it probably was an offence, and yes, there is legislation in place for that. And that legislation should be applied and the case closed, rather than making an example of it, starting up the pyres for the witchhunt and emotionally scarring the girl for life by making her the focus of public attention for having been kissed by an old guy.
It's not nice, but he is going to be punished. The kid is unharmed, and if that mother wasn't such a hysterical nutcase the whole thing wouldn't be an issue.

Yes, I agree that it was wrong for that guy to kiss her. But I think getting him down as a registered sex offender and pedophile is punishment way way WAY out of proportion to the crime.

Ewwwwwww.

That is the worst thing I've ever heard, and I've had people guess at my sex life!

Ewwww.

Why would the child let him??????

There is something very wrong here.

That said, with that age gap, it should be illegal under existing laws, unless that state is really screwed up.

Ewwwwwww.

That is the worst thing I've ever heard, and I've had people guess at my sex life!

Ewwww.

Why would the child let him??????

There is something very wrong here.

That said, with that age gap, it should be illegal under existing laws, unless that state is really screwed up.

what makes you think the child let him?

and if thats the worst thing you have ever heard i envy you your innocence.

what makes you think the child let him?

and if thats the worst thing you have ever heard i envy you your innocence.

Because the bloke wouldn't get as far as tongues if the child was screaming and lashing out and kicking.

I've heard a lot of bad stuff (The town I live in has a lot of perverts (yes, I've seen the crime stats to prove it)).

in the US and in Iran yes and maybe in other countries too

I think the pertinent part is an adult messing with a minor, no?

Caesar was a title :P

Which derived from the name of Julius Caesar, the previously mentioned assassination victim. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesar_(title)

Originally Posted by South Lorenya
Hey, what happens if a pair of twelve-year-olds decide to do it? Are they both sex offenders?

I don't know what it's like in Virginia, but in Colorado, there is a four years rule. Basically, it's alright as long as both persons, (at least) one of which is a minor, are within four years of age.

Even if the legislation passes, however, the man cannot be punished under its stipulations. Ex Post Facto laws are against the Constitution. This guy basically won't be able to do it again, but they can't register him as a sex offender for this particular incident.

The man is taking advantage of somebody who doesn't know how to say no and invading her body. How is he not a predator?

Because the bloke wouldn't get as far as tongues if the child was screaming and lashing out and kicking.

I've heard a lot of bad stuff (The town I live in has a lot of perverts (yes, I've seen the crime stats to prove it)).

well ok

the child "let" him because he was an old man who scared the crap out of her so she "let" him do what he wanted for fear of what would happen if she didnt "let" him.

then she told her mother.

well ok

the child "let" him because he was an old man who scared the crap out of her so she "let" him do what he wanted for fear of what would happen if she didnt "let" him.

then she told her mother.

That explains it.

Still, I am V. concerned.

What sort of crapped up world do we live in?

Whether or not this is a sexual assault had nothing to do with why this law was passed. This is a knee-jerk feel good law in response to a single incident which will result in a bunch of unintentional fuck ups happening that the legislature will refuse to fix for fear of looking soft on crime.

Caesar gives this decision a thumbs down.

*gasp*

Agrees with TPH.

Election year, donchew know.

That explains it.

Still, I am V. concerned.

What sort of crapped up world do we live in?

there are some pretty bad people out there.


there always has been.

this is why child protection social workers burn out so quickly. the shit people do to kids is too awful to deal with for long.

there are some pretty bad people out there.


there always has been.

this is why child protection social workers burn out so quickly. the shit people do to kids is too awful to deal with for long.

what do you mean by burn out?
I know some who have been social workers for years, and lead healthy lives.
but yeah the stuff they deal with is pretty tough.

what do you mean by burn out?
I know some who have been social workers for years, and lead healthy lives.
but yeah the stuff they deal with is pretty tough.

How many? Is that a representative sample? And it isn't about the social workers leading healthy lives. You can burn out at a job and be perfectly healthy. Burnout just means you've had enough of one particular kind of constant stress in a profession. There are stockbroker burnouts, education burnouts, police burnouts, civil service burnouts, and so forth. Constant stress of a given type, lack of a release for the buildup of that stress and an absence of support are usually the primary causes.

Burnout and turnover are VERY common in social work, and it usually depends on the nature of the region the agency serves.

There is a difference between kissing a kid on top of the head or on the cheek, and kissing a kid on their genitals or thrusting your tongue down their throat.

YEAH, I'd say French kissing a minor is wrong!

Yeah... french kissing is a sexual act. Kissing on the top of the head or on the cheek isn't necessarily.

If someone's french kissing a child, they've got some issues.

How many? Is that a representative sample? And it isn't about the social workers leading healthy lives. You can burn out at a job and be perfectly healthy. Burnout just means you've had enough of one particular kind of constant stress in a profession. There are stockbroker burnouts, education burnouts, police burnouts, civil service burnouts, and so forth. Constant stress of a given type, lack of a release for the buildup of that stress and an absence of support are usually the primary causes.

Burnout and turnover are VERY common in social work, and it usually depends on the nature of the region the agency serves.

2 mentally healthy adults. So no it isn't representative.
You're right there are lots of people who leave social work because of the stresses of the job.

Well, I'm not exactly sure about the law here, but I'm pretty sure that "putting any object in any oraface without consent" qualifies as rape. So putting your tongue in someone's mouth without their consent, would be rape. I certainly don't think french-kissing a child should be legal, but it's going to be hard when it comes to things like 13-year-olds kissing 12-year-olds, etc.

"putting any object in any oraface without consent" qualifies as rape. interesting, surprise kissing my GF is rape.

because that is what I do sometimes, I wake her up with a kiss. I just assume she will like it, I just assume she wont take me to the police.

interesting, surprise kissing my GF is rape.

because that is what I do sometimes, I wake her up with a kiss. I just assume she will like it, I just assume she wont take me to the police.Do you ever give her "surprise sex"?

I'm curious. Why do you always go to such lengths to deny or excuse sexual abuse?

Anyway, I'm sure you would be more than a bit disturbed to wake up and find a complete stranger had his/her tongue down your throat. Who knows, you might even feel violated. You might even think it should be illegal.

Well, it all depends on who it is, eh? I would irritated at anyone who did it to me, but I am sure the person you are conversing with would be fine with it if it was a buxom woman.

I'm curious. The Cat is curious? ;)
.
Why do you always go to such lengths to deny or excuse sexual abuse?I think sexual abusers should be dealt-with harshly, I think rapists deserve the death penalty. I think prepubescents and retarded adults should be protected by society from sexual abuse.
.
Why do you always go to such lengths to excuse these stupid laws?
(when I say you, I mean you+others like you)

Anyway, I'm sure you would be more than a bit disturbed to wake up and find a complete stranger had his/her tongue down your throat. Who knows, you might even feel violated. You might even think it should be illegal.Depends, how good :fluffle:looking is she? ;) :D

interesting, surprise kissing my GF is rape.

because that is what I do sometimes, I wake her up with a kiss. I just assume she will like it, I just assume she wont take me to the police.

I'm curious. Why do you always go to such lengths to deny or excuse sexual abuse?

Anyway, I'm sure you would be more than a bit disturbed to wake up and find a complete stranger had his/her tongue down your throat. Who knows, you might even feel violated. You might even think it should be illegal.

Do you ever give her "surprise sex"?your nick name disturbs me.


ASL? :D

Depends, how good :fluffle:looking is she? ;) :D

I figured so. http://smilies.vidahost.com/cwm/cwm/cwm13.gif I will even bet that you would apply the same rule to rape.

I figured so. http://smilies.vidahost.com/cwm/cwm/cwm13.gif I will even bet that you would apply the same rule to rape.meh.. it is not really rape if I enjoy it.




besides, I am likely to want to be :fluffle: raped again.. and again.

I don't really know. Part of me wants to think that an adult who kisses a 10 year old in a creep, but another part of me worries of this is more unneeded governing of our lives.

I sort of agree that the adult would be a sex offender, but I'm afraid of the slippery slope. What if they want to legislate kids kissing each other next?

Almost always. ;)

Perhaps you overreach concerning punishment for sexual abuse to compensate for being under-inclusive as to what constitutes such abuse. But that may be another topic.

Um. AP's analysis notwithstanding, the "stupid" law in question does not make kissing into rape. It makes a misdemeanor for an adult to french-kiss a child. That seems more than reasonable.

Weren't you paying attention? It's a 62-year-old man!! ;)
fair enough.. except where you would have me kissed by a 62-year-old man, I clearly said "if she is attractive, she can rape me"


62-year-old man kissing ## = cruel and unusual punishment :D

The Cat is curious? ;)

Almost always. ;)

I think sexual abusers should be dealt-with harshly, I think rapists deserve the death penalty. I think prepubescents and retarded adults should be protected by society from sexual abuse.

Perhaps you overreach concerning punishment for sexual abuse to compensate for being under-inclusive as to what constitutes such abuse. But that may be another topic.

Why do you always go to such lengths to deny or excuse these stupid laws?

Kissing is NOT rape. (when I say you, I mean you+others like you)

Um. AP's analysis notwithstanding, the "stupid" law in question does not make kissing into rape. It makes a misdemeanor for an adult to french-kiss a child. That seems more than reasonable.

Depends, how good :fluffle:looking is she? ;) :D

Weren't you paying attention? It's a 62-year-old man!! ;)

But on a more serious note, your answer seems to trivialize the issue of why sex abuse is wrong.

fair enough.. except where you would have me kissed by a 62-year-old man, I clearly said "if she is attractive, she can rape me"


62-year-old man kissing ## = cruel and unusual punishment :D

Whom did you expect? Angelina Jolie?

That, and the shit pay and abuse they take for doing their jobs, and the reaming they get if a kid is killed on their watch whether they could have done a thing about it or not.

reamed if they take a child away from an abusive parent; reamed if they leave the child there.

strangers hate them because they heard one side of the story and think that the social worker is the bad guy.

they deal constantly with hapless, hopeless and evil parents. im just glad that there are people willing to do the job at all.

I'm more than okay with making it a misdemeanor for adults to stick their tongues in kids' mouths. It gets a little more iffy when you get to making them register as sex offenders, though. Especially in light of the thread we had a couple weeks ago on a city effectively exiling sex offenders, and similarly draconian laws in other places.

I don't know. It is hard to imagine why an adult would french-kiss a kid if they weren't interested in doing other things as well, so maybe it's best that we're flagging these people before they do something worse.

there are some pretty bad people out there.


there always has been.

this is why child protection social workers burn out so quickly. the shit people do to kids is too awful to deal with for long.

That, and the shit pay and abuse they take for doing their jobs, and the reaming they get if a kid is killed on their watch whether they could have done a thing about it or not.

I clearly said "if she is attractive, she can rape me"

meh.. it is not really rape if I enjoy it.

besides, I am likely to want to be :fluffle: raped again.. and again.

Sorry but my sense of humor fails me when it comes to rape. Rape isn't a funny joke.

You are right that consensual adult sex whether you enjoy it or not is not rape.

he asked a simple question.

and I gave a direct Yes-or-No answer.

what is your Yes-or-No answer?

Why don't you read the bloody article, where it says specifically "Adult kissing a minor under the age of 13" rather than get all snide, darling?
Btw your yes or no answer appears to be wrong.

And by the way...

Hey, what happens if a pair of twelve-year-olds decide to do it? Are they both sex offenders?

does not ask for simply a yes or no question, so what is your issue?

your yes or no answer appears to be wrong.sex between 13 years olds is not illegal? in the Countries I mentioned?

is it just me.. or you are a bit.. upset with me, darling?

Well, you don't like it when you're singled out for snide remarks?

Me either.

sex between 13 years olds is not illegal? in the Countries I mentioned?

Kissing is sex now?

Kissing is sex now?Actually.. that is a mighty good question.

Kissing is sex now?
who here has an answer? I need some comments + opinions, because -honestly- I am not sure if it is sex

Actually.. that is a mighty good question.

Kissing is sex now?
who here has an answer? I need some comments + opinions, because -honestly- I am not sure if it is sex

Originally, only a man couching a woman in a traditional way was sex. Now it appears as if any stimulation of the loin is sex. Will the term "sex" begin to apply to any kind of intimate physical activity? We shall have to see. Do not forget about that recent law that categories unwilling hugging as a form of sexual assault.

Originally, only a man couching a woman in a traditional way was sex. Now it appears as if any stimulation of the loin is sex. Will the term "sex" begin to apply to any kind of intimate physical activity? We shall have to see. Do not forget about that recent law that categories unwilling hugging as a form of sexual assault.Yes, I was wondering about all of that...





For the record, Independently of whether Kissing is sex or not, I dont agree with whoever wants to use the RAPE tag (its used -these days- for so many different things, and often the meaning changes when you change location.. that its has become a clusterFҸck).
.. and Independently of whether Kissing is sex or not, we still have to protect young kids from being kissed in the mouth by adults. Its a form of sensual touch (not RAPE) and as such it should be discouraged by society, family and the education system. In some cases the cops/social workers have to be called in. (like in this case)

Yes, I was wondering about all of that...





For the record, Independently of whether Kissing is sex or not, I dont agree with whoever wants to use the RAPE tag (its used -these days- for so many different things, and often the meaning changes when you change location.. that its has become a clusterF@ck).
.. and Independently of whether Kissing is sex or not, we still have to protect young kids from being kissed in the mouth by adults. Its a form of sensual touch (not RAPE) and as such it should be discouraged by society, family and the education system. In some cases a misdemeanor is called for. (like in this case)

Perhaps it should be categorized under child molestation?

I clearly said "if she is attractive, she can rape me.

Actually if you have given her permission then it isn't rape.

I must admit when I read the first line of the OP I thought here we go some dickhead is going to make mothers and fathers everywhere sexual predators because they kissed their son/daughter on the lips (closed kiss)

But after reading the article yes why not they should be placed as a sex offender when there absolute proof that he/she did it.

Why would you french kiss a someone under the age of 10?

In regards to those who are saying can a 13 year old be punished because they kissed a 12 year old, lets hope not but when child porn laws were made tighter in California a 16 year old male and a 17 year old female they were in a relationship they both took naked pictures of each other and one sent them to the other, neither of them sent the pictures to anyone else. The police arrested and charged both of them with in possession of child porn and distribution of it. If found guilty they will spend time in jail and both will have to register on the child sex offenders list. I don't know the outcome of this anyone? But yes if some cop wants to charge the 13 year old for this then he/she could face some serious trouble. I think that there needs to be some clauses placed on this bill and other like it.

...both will have to register on the child sex offenders list. I don't know the outcome of this anyone? But yes if some cop wants to charge the 13 year old for this then he/she could face some serious trouble. I think that there needs to be some clauses placed on this bill and other like it.there need to be some differentiations , specifications.. calling everything sexual assault/Rape is fucked up.

I must admit when I read the first line of the OP I thought here we go some dickhead is going to make mothers and fathers everywhere sexual predators because they kissed their son/daughter on the lips (closed kiss)I was wondering about that too. This stupid laws would tag these parents as sexual predators and destroy their lives (and their children lives)

If society thinks these are evil, or damaging to the kid, these parent kissing customs should be addressed by society and the education system (Not by this -Life destroying- Sex offenders Registry).. so it can phased out in a generation or two.

But are they evil? Probably not.

Why would you french kiss your son/daughter? regardless of their age?your said closed lips. Make up your mind.

I never seen a parent french kissing his kid. But i ve seen the occasional closed good-bye kiss. I dont like it, but I did not see any malice.

I was wondering about that too. This stupid laws would tag these parents as sexual predators and destroy their lives (and their children lives)

If society thinks these are evil, or damaging to the kid, these parent kissing customs should be addressed by society and the education system.. so it can phased out in a generation or two.

But are they evil? Probably not.

As I said that is what I first thought but then after reading the second line and the article it says nothing of the sort thus I dismissed my original thought.

Why would you french kiss your son/daughter? regardless of their age?

Why would you french kiss your son/daughter? regardless of their age?

Because he/she is hot?
<.<

>.>
Er.. I'm young enough to be my own son(if that makes any sense), so don't take that comment the wrong way.

your said closed lips. Make up your mind.

I never seen a parent french kissing his kid. But i ve seen the occasional closed good-bye kiss. I dont like it, but I dont see any malice.

Yes indeed I did

I must admit when I read the first line of the OP I thought here we go some dickhead is going to make mothers and fathers everywhere sexual predators because they kissed their son/daughter on the lips (closed kiss)
I was wondering about that too. This stupid laws would tag these parents as sexual predators and destroy their lives (and their children lives)

I still think that could happen- how close does a "closed kiss" look to a "French kiss"? Some overzealous teacher/police officer just might confuse that legitimate kiss with the wrong one and cause some needless headaches.

If society thinks these are evil, or damaging to the kid, these parent kissing customs should be addressed by society and the education system (Not by this -Life destroying- Sex offenders Registry).. so it can phased out in a generation or two.

But are they evil? Probably not.

I don't think there's any of us who'd love to see the day when parents can't kiss their own children. Frankly, there's something wrong if society ever goes down that path.

Apart from this whole discussion, isn't it juridically impossible for a law to punish something that happened before the law was enacted? Laws can't work retroactively...

So there now is a law for something that happened once in the history of Virginia and most likely will not happen again, making it as worthless as a condom dispenser in the Vatican.
Or am I seeing this wrong? :p

interesting, surprise kissing my GF is rape.

because that is what I do sometimes, I wake her up with a kiss. I just assume she will like it, I just assume she wont take me to the police.

You lose points for cutting out the rest of my post.

Because the bloke wouldn't get as far as tongues if the child was screaming and lashing out and kicking.

I've heard a lot of bad stuff (The town I live in has a lot of perverts (yes, I've seen the crime stats to prove it)).

But a child won't necessarily scream or lash out. Child molestation is not always "violent" (in the kicking/screaming way). Children don't always respond to the situation because they don't understand/are scared/the adult has authority/etc.

[Sorry but my sense of humor fails me when it comes to rape. Rape isn't a funny joke.

You are right that consensual adult sex whether you enjoy it or not is not rape.

I think we're going to be friends, The Cat-Tribe.

Well, we will be, when you stop taking the words out of my mouth. :p

there need to be some differentiations , specifications.. calling everything sexual assault/Rape is fucked up.

Uh, the "/" there and the words beside it are the difference.

Sexual assault, sexual harrasment and rape are different things. I certainly don't advocate calling french-kissing without consent "rape", but it's most definitely sexual assault, especially on a child!

What disturbs me the most is that this measure passed unanimously in the VA Senate and very nearly so (1 vote against) in the House. The Governor will sign it into law.

It disturbs me because it would seem like, while obviously an adult frenching a kid is, in and of itself, not apropriate, the penalties being imposed are severe. You could get less time than that for much more severe offenses. And that doesn't even include the registration part.

This strikes me as another example of feel-good legislation and its near unanimity tells me how bad that problem truly has become. I mean, this wasn't even controversial. I guess nobody wants to be the state congressman/congresswoman who voted against a measure that is justified by 'think of the children.' Anyone doubt that would get used against them in the next election?

Even if the legislation passes, however, the man cannot be punished under its stipulations. Ex Post Facto laws are against the Constitution. This guy basically won't be able to do it again, but they can't register him as a sex offender for this particular incident.


Oh, but they can.

When the whole thing first started in the mid 90s they made it retroactive to include ALL people convicted of a sex crime. Take a look at the registry in your local area. You'll find people on it with convictions dating all the way back to the 70s.

Will they be able to prosecute him? No, but that won't stop them from making him register. Being on the registry does not necessarily mean there's a conviction. I am personally acquainted with a guy who was made to register despite having no sex crimes convictions. (He had just gotten out of prison for physical abuse of a child, not sexual abuse) The DA forced him to sign paperwork to register 'just in case.' This is not the only example I know of.

Hey, what happens if a pair of twelve-year-olds decide to do it? Are they both sex offenders?

No. It's if the "offender" is an adult.

What disturbs me the most is that this measure passed unanimously in the VA Senate and very nearly so (1 vote against) in the House. The Governor will sign it into law.

It disturbs me because it would seem like, while obviously an adult frenching a kid is, in and of itself, not apropriate, the penalties being imposed are severe. You could get less time than that for much more severe offenses. And that doesn't even include the registration part.

This strikes me as another example of feel-good legislation and its near unanimity tells me how bad that problem truly has become. I mean, this wasn't even controversial. I guess nobody wants to be the state congressman/congresswoman who voted against a measure that is justified by 'think of the children.' Anyone doubt that would get used against them in the next election?


You couldn't vote against it, and survive the next election. Your opponent would say that "you voted to protect pedophiles" and your career would be at an end no matter what you said.

Most laws and programs made by the government are "feel good" in nature, and don't really protect people the way that they assume they will.

As a parallel example of "feel good" - some states require that a gun be fired with a sample cartridge - and that cartridge is retained in a computer database, with the idea that if we find a bullet, and compare it to the data, we'll get a match. So some states in the US now have a mandatory register of bullet images.

It's not working - because you get far too many false matches. It's costing millions of dollars to implement something that makes the public "feel good" while doing absolutely nothing to solve crimes.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23486178/

Wow - 75 to 90 percent effective at its current size - that means that I can easily prove reasonable doubt of a false positive.

And the experts say that if the database goes national, the error rate will increase.

Keeping data doesn't necessarily solve any problems, whether it's a registry of sex offenders or bullet images. Pedophilia is a people problem, and gun violence is a people problem - and you need a people-oriented solution instead of one that relies on computer databases and false security.

You couldn't vote against it, and survive the next election. Your opponent would say that "you voted to protect pedophiles" and your career would be at an end no matter what you said.

Most laws and programs made by the government are "feel good" in nature, and don't really protect people the way that they assume they will.

As a parallel example of "feel good" - some states require that a gun be fired with a sample cartridge - and that cartridge is retained in a computer database, with the idea that if we find a bullet, and compare it to the data, we'll get a match. So some states in the US now have a mandatory register of bullet images.

It's not working - because you get far too many false matches. It's costing millions of dollars to implement something that makes the public "feel good" while doing absolutely nothing to solve crimes.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23486178/

Wow - 75 to 90 percent effective at its current size - that means that I can easily prove reasonable doubt of a false positive.

And the experts say that if the database goes national, the error rate will increase.

Keeping data doesn't necessarily solve any problems, whether it's a registry of sex offenders or bullet images. Pedophilia is a people problem, and gun violence is a people problem - and you need a people-oriented solution instead of one that relies on computer databases and false security.

You're absolutely right. Maryland is such a state. Here's another aspect to that, at the risk of going off on a tangent:

When a gun is sold and is fired so the expended round is kept on file, it essentially records the pattern of rifling inside the barrel and the unique shape of the firing pin.

Both of those parts are easy to replace and do not require any sort of paperwork to get.

Thus, I could go to a dealer, buy a nice new Kimber .45 M1911-A1 (Which I plan to do in the next couple years ;) ) and when I get it home, order a new barrel and firing pin. I get the parts, install them, and now my weapon no longer matches the expended round on file.

And this is perfectly legal.

And even if it weren't... if I were inclined to shoot somebody all I'd have to do is swap out the parts, commit the crime, then put the original parts back in. I've now defeated the multi-million dollar system for less than $20.00

No. It's if the "offender" is an adult.

Although in some jurisdictions, minors CAN be made to register.

I think we're going to be friends, The Cat-Tribe.

The feeling is mutual. :D:fluffle:

What disturbs me the most is that this measure passed unanimously in the VA Senate and very nearly so (1 vote against) in the House. The Governor will sign it into law.

It disturbs me because it would seem like, while obviously an adult frenching a kid is, in and of itself, not apropriate, the penalties being imposed are severe. You could get less time than that for much more severe offenses. And that doesn't even include the registration part.

This strikes me as another example of feel-good legislation and its near unanimity tells me how bad that problem truly has become. I mean, this wasn't even controversial. I guess nobody wants to be the state congressman/congresswoman who voted against a measure that is justified by 'think of the children.' Anyone doubt that would get used against them in the next election?

Um. To what are you referring? The new crime is a misdemeanor and is punishable by a maximum of one year in jail and a $2,500 fine. That is the lowest category of offense and possible punishment.

Misdemeanors are much less serious than felonies and the punishments for felonies are far more severe.

This foiled my plan to french kiss toddlers in Virginia.

Curse you lawmakers! Curse you!

And you would have gotten away with it, if it wasn't for those meddling underage kids!

And that pedo bear of theirs!

This foiled my plan to french kiss toddlers in Virginia.

Curse you lawmakers! Curse you!

And you would have gotten away with it, if it wasn't for those meddling underage kids!

It is also illegal in Virginia to tickle a woman in public and to have sex in any position other than Missionary and/or with the lights on.

The feeling is mutual. :D:fluffle:

Sweet. :D

RhynoDD;13517116']It is also illegal in Virginia to tickle a woman in public and to have sex in any position other than Missionary and/or with the lights on.

Really? What statutes are those? I'd like to read them.

Really? What statutes are those? I'd like to read them.

Don't recall.

Also something about not being allowed to walk your alligator past 8 AM or something.

Um. To what are you referring? The new crime is a misdemeanor and is punishable by a maximum of one year in jail and a $2,500 fine. That is the lowest category of offense and possible punishment.

Misdemeanors are much less serious than felonies and the punishments for felonies are far more severe.

I was just thinking of people I know (remember how I keep referencing formal education in this area?) who were convicted or took a plea to more severe offenses and didn't spend nearly so long in jail and paid much lower fines.

Although I do realize that the maximum penalty is not what one would get on a first offense.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23541454/

If you kiss any child under 10, Virginia says you are a sex offender for the rest of your life. Any thoughts?

Why was he french kissing a ten year old?

Paedophile rings a bell? Maybe...:rolleyes:

Really? What statutes are those? I'd like to read them.

For what its worth its from this site...
Dumb Laws (http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states/virginia)