NationStates Jolt Archive

I had some time to spare before a friggin' cocktail I have to attend in 30 minutes so, I re-read the history of the Byzantine Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Empire), an empire that has captivated me, perhaps, because it's legacy is so alien to me. (And no, I don't want the King to come back, for those of you who call me a Royalist, and you know who you are.:p) It's amazing what boredom can do to someone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantium

I was pondering the repercutions that having a Western and Eastern Roman Empire did to the history of mankind and I began to question myself. If the Holy Roman Empire hadn't divided into 2 sections, and if a head of state hadn't been designated for each part of the Empire, would our history, specially in Muslim and Orthodox nations would be the same as it is today?

Because many of you here are incredibly smart and well versed in a huge variety of topics, I wanted to ask: What do you think about Byzantium? What do you think this Eastern Empire gave to humanity (be it good or bad)? Do you agree that, in order to rule, Rome had to be divided into 2 Empires? What do you think were the effects on religion? What did this do to the canons and creeds of both Catholic and Orthodox Churches? Talk to me, people.
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Medieval/img/Byzantium1204.jpg
http://gbgm-umc.org/umw/corinthians/maps/empire2a.gif

Orthodoxia e Thanatos!!

Orthodoxy and Death? Oooookay.

Or possibly until death... I've not done modern greek in years.

Orthodoxia e Thanatos!!

Orthodoxy and Death? Oooookay.

Or possibly until death... I've not done modern greek in years.

Orthodoxia i Thanatos= that means "Being Orthodox until Death"? Interesting.

If the Holy Roman Empire hadn't divided into 2 sections, ...The Holy Roman Empire had never been divided until its end in 1806, only Switzerland and the Netherlands seceded from it after the 30 years war.

The Holy Roman Empire had never been divided until its end in 1806, only Switzerland and the Netherlands seceded from it after the 30 years war.

I beg to differ. It wasn't divided ideologically. But there was a Roman Empire of the West and a Roman Empire of the East. It had two different heads of state, both descended from the Emperor.

I think there may be a slight misunderstanding here, we're talking about the Roman Empire, not the Holy Roman Empire.

Or possibly until death... I've not done modern greek in years.

"Orthodoxy or Death"

Dummies! ;)

I think there may be a slight misunderstanding here, we're talking about the Roman Empire, not the Holy Roman Empire.

I think there may be a slight misunderstanding here, we're talking about the Roman Empire, not the Holy Roman Empire.

Right. The Holy Roman Empire was the precursor to Germany, and didn't really incorporate until the Early Medieval period.

What do you think about Byzantium? What do you think this Eastern Empire gave to humanity (be it good or bad)? Do you agree that, in order to rule, Rome had to be divided into 2 Empires? What do you think were the effects on religion? What did this do to the canons and creeds of both Catholic and Orthodox Churches? Talk to me, people.
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Medieval/img/Byzantium1204.jpg
http://gbgm-umc.org/umw/corinthians/maps/empire2a.gif

I have no position on the formation of the eastern or western empires, other than to say that it was probably the best of all possible options left to the Roman empire at that time but it was still a bad thing for Europe. Beyond that, though, Byzantium had a huge impact on the West because it staved off the Muslims for hundreds of years. Had the Ottomans taken Constantinople in the 800's, they might have gotten quite a bit further than Vienna.

As far as Christian religion, I don't think the split had as much to do with it as natural doctrinal splits as a consequence of geography, necessity, and chance. I don't think Byzantium had anything to do directly with the iconoclasm debate, although it did provide a center of operations for Eastern Orthodoxy following the split from Rome.

As far as Christian religion, I don't think the split had as much to do with it as natural doctrinal splits as a consequence of geography, necessity, and chance. I don't think Byzantium had anything to do directly with the iconoclasm debate, although it did provide a center of operations for Eastern Orthodoxy following the split from Rome.

Wasn't the iconoclasm debate a matter of the clergy vs. the state vs. the military (clergy and army being in favor, with various emperors being against, and others for)? I recall being taught about it in school on the basis that it was an excellent demonstration of the differing political movements and factions at play over that 200-year or so period. But either way, it's a great example of how damned confusing it is to study the Eastern Empire. Confused the hell out of me, at least. :p

Wasn't the iconoclasm debate a matter of the clergy vs. the state vs. the military (clergy and army being in favor, with various emperors being against, and others for)? I recall being taught about it in school on the basis that it was an excellent demonstration of the differing political movements and factions at play over that 200-year or so period. But either way, it's a great example of how damned confusing it is to study the Eastern Empire. Confused the hell out of me, at least. :p

Yeah, I know what you mean. Sometimes I get confused wether the West started the conflict or if it was the East.

You know what it gave us? A really hard puzzle! Day after day, I keep wondering: What exactly WAS the recipe for greek fire...

:D

You know what it gave us? A really hard puzzle! Day after day, I keep wondering: What exactly WAS the recipe for greek fire...

So reading 90 pages (close to 1800 posts) of a Crusader Kings AAR (After Action Report) doesn't give me the impetus to fire up CK, but now I have an urge to, err, "borrow" byzantium's lands. *sigh*

Actually I'll watch them finish off the leader of the Seljuk Turks, then steamroll the squabbling emirates that pop up with the sultan deposed...