NationStates Jolt Archive

Race row as actor Robert Downey Jr 'blacks up' for new film
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/showbiz/showbiznews.html?in_article_id=528496&in_page_id=1773

tl,dr version: an upcoming film stars an actor of ethnicity X playing a character of ethnicity Y, and controversy ensues.

So should "white actors" be limited to "white" roles, "black" actors to "black" roles, etc.?

Race row as actor Robert Downey Jr 'blacks up' for new film
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/showbiz/showbiznews.html?in_article_id=528496&in_page_id=1773

tl,dr version: an upcoming film stars an actor of ethnicity X playing a character of ethnicity Y, and controversy ensues.

So should "white actors" be limited to "white" roles, "black" actors to "black" roles, etc.?

I think this sums it up pretty well...
But the backlash has clearly begun as one comment on a showbiz blog Just Jared said: "I'm not black and I find it offensive; are there not any talented enough black actors out in the world that they feel the need to hire a white guy to do a black guy?"

I think this sums it up pretty well...

So you agree that the idea of excluding an person of ethnicity from portraying one of another ethnicity is OK in principle?

Well ,yes, white guys should stick to white roles, but i see this complaint as total BS - i mean, noone cried when those 2 black guys put on make-up and played girls in that movie "white chicks"

its a case of the blacks crying to have everything on their side - whites cant do anything race-based, but every other race can

the only thing they let whites do is become sad pathetic 'wiggers' (white boys who act black) as long as it ends there

I don't see why someone couldn't play a character of different ethnicity. It's not really any different to an actor putting on a wig.

If what I've heard is correct, they're also putting Tom Cruise in a fat suit for that same movie.

I say this is all just further proof that Ben Stiller is a director and thespian of Shakespearean proportions. After all, in Elizabethan times only men could be actors, and hence all the female parts were played by men.

So you agree that the idea of excluding an person of ethnicity from portraying one of another ethnicity is OK in principle?

Yes.
If you have the ability to hire someone whose ethnicity matches that of the character, why wouldn't you?

I don't see a problem here

Yes.
If you have the ability to hire someone whose ethnicity matches that of the character, why wouldn't you?

If you have two actors one of whom is "ethnically correct" in apperance and the other of whom can portray the character better, why not go with the better actor?

Acting roles should go to the most capable, most deserving actor. period.
I'm mixed ethnicity (dad's black, moms Scots-Irish), and I just get sick of all the categorizing thats done with things like this. Especially from the black side. I always hear about there not being enough black faces on network television, but I don't see a lot of white faces on B.E.T. Then there are awards shows and other events drawn along racial lines (black this and black that), etc. But let a white guy try for a black role and all hell breaks loose.

Let actors act. Didn't Cate Blanchett play Bob Dylan recently in "I'm Not There"? If a woman can convincingly play a young Dylan, why can't Downey play black?

:upyours:

Just my rant.

Acting roles should go to the most capable, most deserving actor. period.
I'm mixed ethnicity (dad's black, moms Scots-Irish), and I just get sick of all the categorizing thats done with things like this. Especially from the black side. I always hear about there not being enough black faces on network television, but I don't see a lot of white faces on B.E.T. Then there are awards shows and other events drawn along racial lines (black this and black that), etc. But let a white guy try for a black role and all hell breaks loose.

Let actors act. Didn't Cate Blanchett play Bob Dylan recently in "I'm Not There"? If a woman can convincingly play a young Dylan, why can't Downey play black?

:upyours:

Just my rant.

Thank you for making my point. :)

Er.. am I the only one who has noticed that Robert Downey Jr is not playing a black character, he is playing a white character who is in blackface? The stupidity of people who have jumped to the conclusion that RDJ is playing a black character is horrendous.

I don't see why someone couldn't play a character of different ethnicity. It's not really any different to an actor putting on a wig.

Exactly so.

If what I've heard is correct, they're also putting Tom Cruise in a fat suit for that same movie.

I say this is all just further proof that Ben Stiller is a director and thespian of Shakespearean proportions. After all, in Elizabethan times only men could be actors, and hence all the female parts were played by men.

Indeed, at least if I understand you. In this day and age, why restrict sex and ethnicity? Free the stage.

(BTW, just as a note, I'm a male, and I've seriously portrayed female roles on stage in the improv troupe I used to belong to - and in a "straight" role, not camp.)

Acting roles should go to the most capable, most deserving actor. period.

Which, I'm sure, is why Tom Cruise was given his bit part in this particular movie.


I'm mixed ethnicity (dad's black, moms Scots-Irish), and I just get sick of all the categorizing thats done with things like this. Especially from the black side. I always hear about there not being enough black faces on network television, but I don't see a lot of white faces on B.E.T.

Yeah, and what's up with the lack of white history during Black History Month?!


Then there are awards shows and other events drawn along racial lines (black this and black that), etc. But let a white guy try for a black role and all hell breaks loose.

All hell = some people write some stuff on the interwebs, the movie proceeds as cast, audiences 'round the nation yawn, and film critics die a little more inside knowing that Ben Stiller is still permitted within 40 feet of a camera.

Well ,yes, white guys should stick to white roles, but i see this complaint as total BS - i mean, noone cried when those 2 black guys put on make-up and played girls in that movie "white chicks"

its a case of the blacks crying to have everything on their side - whites cant do anything race-based, but every other race can

the only thing they let whites do is become sad pathetic 'wiggers' (white boys who act black) as long as it ends there



Put your pillow case back on.

Indeed, at least if I understand you. In this day and age, why restrict sex and ethnicity? Free the stage.

I was being sarcastic, to be honest, since I don't think there's anything remotely Shakespearean about Stiller's movies.

I don't personally care much about this casting job, though. Ben Stiller and his crew of "comedian" buddies have been recycling the same movie formula for long enough to lose my interest. I expect it's going to be another formulaic, heterosexist, subtly racist, wanna-be comedic picture which probably will bank on shock value to get a few embarrassed laughs out of the audience. Meh.

Well ,yes, white guys should stick to white roles, but i see this complaint as total BS - i mean, noone cried when those 2 black guys put on make-up and played girls in that movie "white chicks"

Are you high? That movie (as horrible as it was) wasn't two black actors playing the role of white women. It was two black guys playing the role black guys pretending to be two white women. As such they weren't meant to be looking like white women, they were supposed to look like black men who were dressed like white women

Er.. am I the only one who has noticed that Robert Downey Jr is not playing a black character, he is playing a white character who is in blackface? The stupidity of people who have jumped to the conclusion that RDJ is playing a black character is horrendous.

where does it say that? i just skimmed the article but it seemed to say that he was playing a role written for a black actor and has been made up to pass as black--not as a white man pretending to be black.

I was being sarcastic, to be honest, since I don't think there's anything remotely Shakespearean about Stiller's movies.

I don't personally care much about this casting job, though. Ben Stiller and his crew of "comedian" buddies have been recycling the same movie formula for long enough to lose my interest. I expect it's going to be another formulaic, heterosexist, subtly racist, wanna-be comedic picture which probably will bank on shock value to get a few embarrassed laughs out of the audience. Meh.

You have to LOL at the implication that they couldn't get any black actors who were better than Robert Downey Jr also.

you people are all morons - do a little research

the CHARACTER in the FILM is supposed to be a white guy, playing a black guy.

Robert Downey Jr. is not playing a black guy, he is playing a white guy pretending to be a black guy

as the film is about making a movie

where does it say that? i just skimmed the article but it seemed to say that he was playing a role written for a black actor and has been made up to pass as black--not as a white man pretending to be black.

That's because its from the Daily Mail, and in typical Daily Mail style includes very little fact.

Are you high? That movie (as horrible as it was) wasn't two black actors playing the role of white women. It was two black guys playing the role black guys pretending to be two white women. As such they weren't meant to be looking like white women, they were supposed to look like black men who were dressed like white women

And in this film, you have one white guy playing the role of one white guy pretending to be one black guy. No difference. Except half the number of actors, of course.

Er.. am I the only one who has noticed that Robert Downey Jr is not playing a black character, he is playing a white character who is in blackface? The stupidity of people who have jumped to the conclusion that RDJ is playing a black character is horrendous.

Yes, so far in this thread it looks as if you're the only one who managed to get past the incorrect assumptions and read the article. A cookie for you! And me, too, because while I didn't read the article, at least I read the thread enough to see your very valid and thread-ending point.

I think I'm going to rent that Peter Sellers movie tonight, The Party.

I laughed when Downey tried to compare himself to Sellers in that article. :D


Less obliquely, I would like to add that I think this is a good idea for Stiller, as it creates a debate and gives his film more publicity.
Absolutely. Again, banking on shock value. It's what makes Stiller money.

Yes, so far in this thread it looks as if you're the only one who managed to get past the incorrect assumptions and read the article.
Look again.

I read it. I simply don't care.

I think I'm going to rent that Peter Sellers movie tonight, The Party.

Less obliquely, I would like to add that I think this is a good idea for Stiller, as it creates a debate and gives his film more publicity.

For anybody intrigued by the idea of a white guy playing a white guy playing a black guy, I suggest a much better alternative:

Victor Victoria, staring Julie Andrews. A story about a woman pretending to be a man pretending to be a woman. Also staring James Garner as King Marshand, and that brilliant character actor Lesley Ann Warren.

Yes, so far in this thread it looks as if you're the only one who managed to get past the incorrect assumptions and read the article. A cookie for you! And me, too, because while I didn't read the article, at least I read the thread enough to see your very valid and thread-ending point.

Meh, I answered the question in the OP (I read maybe half the article).

Sure, and next up as a thanks to people who get their panties in a bunch over things like this, only blondes will be allowed to play blondes, only redheads will be allowed to play redheads, and only people who wear glasses will be allowed to play people who wear glasses.

That's because its from the Daily Mail, and in typical Daily Mail style includes very little fact.



And in this film, you have one white guy playing the role of one white guy pretending to be one black guy. No difference. Except half the number of actors, of course.

ahh well then its just another abysmally crappy movie by ben stiller that i wont be seeing. its sad that rdjr has to sink to this level but i guess he has to take what he can get.

Oh, my highschool did this because there were no black people in the drama club.

Yes I understand that many people have a similar apathy towards being wrong. Not me though. Maybe that's why I'm so rarely wrong. ;)
Yes. That must be it.

/deadpan

Look again.

I read it. I simply don't care.

Yes I understand that many people have a similar apathy towards being wrong. Not me though. Maybe that's why I'm so rarely wrong. ;)

i see this complaint as total BS - i mean, noone cried when those 2 black guys put on make-up and played girls in that movie "white chicks"

Uh, everyone who saw that movie cried. Though not due to racial issues.

Yeah, and what's up with the lack of white history during Black History Month?!

Why do we even need a black history month? I live in a largely Hmong neighborhood. They don't get a Hmong history month. My Mexican neighbors don't get a Mexican history month. Where are the Native American, Polynesian, or Punjab history months?

When we begin to give preferential treatment to any one group based on a factor like ethnicity, orientation, gender, we become as bad as the racist/sexist/bigots we're trying to put behind us as a people.

Actors act. Its their craft. And if Downey or Cruise or Danny DeVito is right for a role, be it as an actual black person or as Al Jolson, then they deserve the role.

I'll bet everyone that's so terribly offended by black face doesn't mind some of the horribly offensive jokes about whites and asians told by black comedians on television, or the stereotyping.

Race row as actor Robert Downey Jr 'blacks up' for new film
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/showbiz/showbiznews.html?in_article_id=528496&in_page_id=1773

tl,dr version: an upcoming film stars an actor of ethnicity X playing a character of ethnicity Y, and controversy ensues.

So should "white actors" be limited to "white" roles, "black" actors to "black" roles, etc.?

Should heterosexual actors be limited to heterosexual roles? Should homosexuals be limited to homosexual roles? Should Robin Williams have refused to do Mrs. Doubtfire (a role where he dressed as an old woman)?

There's a reason they call them "actors". They're pretending to be someone they are not.

Why do we even need a black history month? I live in a largely Hmong neighborhood. They don't get a Hmong history month. My Mexican neighbors don't get a Mexican history month. Where are the Native American, Polynesian, or Punjab history months?
They lack sufficiently powerful lobby groups, and they can't play the "years of racism, slavery, and segregation" card. Anyway, there are only so many months in a year.

And well, the schools needed something to do, February's a slow month otherwise.

Just think how pissed God must have been at Morgan Freeman for pretending to be a white deity in Bruce Almighty

Just think how pissed God must have been at Morgan Freeman for pretending to be a white deity in Bruce Almighty

Oh, that's affirmative action...

also there should be an ethnic history month instead once the pain of slavery and segregation dwindles from our collective memories.

Then everyone can learn about the contribution of all ethnicities and not feel left out causing them to get all whiney.

Oh, that's affirmative action...

God: "Them negroids are taking our jerbs!"

Yeah, anyone protesting this is being rather silly. Even if he weren't supposed to be a white-guy-playing-a-black-guy, I don't see the problem with casting people outside their demographic. If Cate Blanchett makes a highly believable Dylan (as critics seemed to think she did), why should the casting director choose a male actor instead? If make-up can make a white guy look believably black or a black guy look believably white, why not cast them in those roles?

(I admit, though, to rolling my eyes a little when 25-year-old starlets are made up to look 45 and moderately unattractive, but only because it seems to happen so often that I have a hard time believing that said 25-year-old starlets are always better at portraying those roles than their older, less perfect-looking counterparts.)

Yeah, anyone protesting this is being rather silly. Even if he weren't supposed to be a white-guy-playing-a-black-guy, I don't see the problem with casting people outside their demographic. If Cate Blanchett makes a highly believable Dylan (as critics seemed to think she did), why should the casting director choose a male actor instead? If make-up can make a white guy look believably black or a black guy look believably white, why not cast them in those roles?

This :)

Though I must admit that I would like to see a black woman playing a white-guy-playing-a-black-guy.

I don't know if this is inappropriate or not, but I'm actually quite impressed by the make-up job. Anyway, I see no problem in people acting outside of their own biological status. That's what acting is about, isn't it; being someone you're not?

So should "white actors" be limited to "white" roles, "black" actors to "black" roles, etc.?Well, black actors have been playing white roles. Will Smith played a role that was a white person in the original version in I am Legend. Same goes for Eddie Murphy in Dr. Doolittle. In the newest installment of Casino Royale, Felix Leiter is black. But the best example I can come up with is Michael Clarke Duncan as the Kingpin in Daredevil, a character that is actually supposed to be white. However Duncan wasn't "whitened" up for it.

Then there's also the problem with the historical precedents of older movies where blackened up whites played bumbling idiot blacks.

Yeah, anyone protesting this is being rather silly. Even if he weren't supposed to be a white-guy-playing-a-black-guy, I don't see the problem with casting people outside their demographic. If Cate Blanchett makes a highly believable Dylan (as critics seemed to think she did), why should the casting director choose a male actor instead? If make-up can make a white guy look believably black or a black guy look believably white, why not cast them in those roles?
Only that's not comparable at all, since "I'm Not There" is all about having different people playing the same character. That was the whole point here. For the same reason, "White Chicks" isn't really relevant to the discussion, since the roles were black roles, much like Kate Blanchett's and Marcus Carl Franklin's roles weren't male or white roles, respectively.

This :)

Though I must admit that I would like to see a black woman playing a white-guy-playing-a-black-guy.

That would be kinda awesome. :p

you people are all morons - do a little research

the CHARACTER in the FILM is supposed to be a white guy, playing a black guy.

Robert Downey Jr. is not playing a black guy, he is playing a white guy pretending to be a black guy

as the film is about making a movie

agreed. and from the article...

"It's FUNNY because they're NOT legitimising negative racial stereotypes, anyone with a brain in his/her head can see how painfully clear that is."

The film centres on a group of pompous actors making the most expensive Vietnam war movie ever made.

Fed up with their self-involved cast, the film's makers drop them into the jungle to take care of themselves, where they get caught up in a conflict they don't realise is real.

He's playing a white guy playing a black guy?

What about a black actor playing a historical character like Hannibal of the red haired Phoenicians, under the justification that he was an "African."

That's like having Brad Pitt play Shaka Zulu.

And in this film, you have one white guy playing the role of one white guy pretending to be one black guy. No difference. Except half the number of actors, of course.

Source please. That is not what the article we have access to seems to be saying. If your claim is accurate then my opinion of this changes drastically.

the link provided in the OP is clear enough to me - it's a movie about making a movie - the role originally written for a black guy (in the movie being made in the movie) is given to a white actor.

Only that's not comparable at all, since "I'm Not There" is all about having different people playing the same character. That was the whole point here. For the same reason, "White Chicks" isn't really relevant to the discussion, since the roles were black roles, much like Kate Blanchett's and Marcus Carl Franklin's roles weren't male or white roles, respectively.The Daily Fail did a good job of misleading. I retract my statements. "White Chicks" is in fact a perfect comparison.

Source please. That is not what the article we have access to seems to be saying. If your claim is accurate then my opinion of this changes drastically.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropic_Thunder
Look at "Cast"

Source please. That is not what the article we have access to seems to be saying. If your claim is accurate then my opinion of this changes drastically.

Entertainment Weekly (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20182058,00.html)
"Robert Downey Jr. plays Kirk Lazarus, a very serious Oscar-winning actor cast in the most expensive Vietnam War film ever. Problem is, Lazarus's character, Sgt. Osiris, was originally written as black. So Lazarus decides to dye his skin and play Osiris, um, authentically."

Race row as actor Robert Downey Jr 'blacks up' for new film
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/showbiz/showbiznews.html?in_article_id=528496&in_page_id=1773

tl,dr version: an upcoming film stars an actor of ethnicity X playing a character of ethnicity Y, and controversy ensues.

So should "white actors" be limited to "white" roles, "black" actors to "black" roles, etc.?

As has now been pointed out ad naseum*, your summary mistates what Robert Downey, Jr. is doing and helps foster a false controversy.

Downey plays a white actor that is playing a black actor. His character is white.

But to answer your question anyway, actors shouldn't necessarily be limited to roles based on race or gender. Generally, actors should be free to act.

But like most issues involving race, there is a context and a history of "black-face" acting that has to be considered. So sometimes "white" actors in "black" roles is inappropriate.

*I originally typed this up before reading the rest of the thread.

Entertainment Weekly (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20182058,00.html)
"Robert Downey Jr. plays Kirk Lazarus, a very serious Oscar-winning actor cast in the most expensive Vietnam War film ever. Problem is, Lazarus's character, Sgt. Osiris, was originally written as black. So Lazarus decides to dye his skin and play Osiris, um, authentically."

Ah. I read the original article as saying that Robert Downey Jr.'s role was originally supposed to be played by a black actor. So yeah, no real controversy here.

I'll see it just because of all the free publicity the squealing pigs gave it over this.

And this people is why you should never give any credence to anything in the Daily Mail.