NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/the-vaccineautism-court-_b_88558.html

I haven't read this throughly yet but I think it's saying that vaccines cause autism like symptoms AKA autism.

Then it is probably a load of rubbish. There is no scientific evidence of a link between vaccination and autism.

One court finding that in one case 'the vaccinations CHILD received on July 19, 2000, significantly aggravated an underlying mitochondrial disorder, which predisposed her to deficits in cellular energy metabolism, and manifested as a regressive encephalopathy with features of autism spectrum disorder' isn't really the same as a government apology for autism.

Then it is probably a load of rubbish. There is no scientific evidence of a link between vaccination and autism.

That's not what they found. My understanding of it is that they found that these vaccinations aggravated an existing condition in one child, which caused some other problem, which manifested as something that seems a lot like autism.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/the-vaccineautism-court-_b_88558.html

I haven't read this throughly yet but I think it's saying that vaccines cause autism like symptoms AKA autism.

Aggravating an underlying; kind of like how smoking cannabis triggers mental disorders in those already prone to it... like left-handed people...

I know they're saying vaccinations cause autism like symptoms. Problem is, if someone has the symptoms of autism how is that different from AUTISM?

They're saying that it happened in one case. In fact, the government technically isn't saying it, some federal court is.


Also, I have a headache at the moment. That's a symptom of a hell of a lot of sicknesses, syndromes and so on. That doesn't mean I'm some kind of medical miracle for managing to live this long with so many things wrong with me.

That's not what they found. My understanding of it is that they found that these vaccinations aggravated an existing condition in one child, which caused some other problem, which manifested as something that seems a lot like autism.

One child isn't exactly overwhelming proof of anything. Isn't this just another conspiracy theory for the tin foil hat brigade?

Aggravating an underlying; kind of like how smoking cannabis triggers mental disorders in those already prone to it... like left-handed people...

*gives Kryo the thumbs up sign*
With my right hand.

I know they're saying vaccinations cause autism like symptoms. Problem is, if someone has the symptoms of autism how is that different from AUTISM?

Left handed people are prone to mental disorders? Do you have any evidence?


Particularly the ones with ginger hair.

Left handed people are prone to mental disorders? Do you have any evidence?
It's an old fact that there are more left handed psychopaths than right handed(IMS), oft rolled out to show that correlation doesn't imply causation.

How can you tell the difference between triggering a mental disorder in someone already prone to it, and plain old creating a mental disorder?

Try reading through that court report and see what they did.

*gives Kryo the thumbs up sign*
With my right hand.

Fixed... >.> damnit people... is it so hard to get it right the first time? It goes K-R-Y-O.... if you write it K-Y-R-O... it's... it's just plain wrong.

And that hand don't look so right to me...

More specific, there is a fear that thimerosal (a preservative added to some vaccines) can cause autism.
I'm not an expert but I thought that there was little evidence supporting this claim. (there are these graphs which indicate that autism levels significantly increased after vaccination became widespread but I think this was because they only started to test for autism then)


If you want more information:
here (http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/290/13/1763) is an article about it.

you can use this (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez)site to search for medical literature.

Here is a blog (http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/medicine/autism/) in which this kind of stuff is often discussed.

I know they're saying vaccinations cause autism like symptoms. Problem is, if someone has the symptoms of autism how is that different from AUTISM?

Because, based on the DSM-IV*, you can have a number of autistic symptoms but not have enough warrant a diagnosis of autism itself, although you will probably qualify for aspergers.

There is currently quite a bit of psychological research indicating that autism is a dimension not a dichotomy, with a lot of people displaying 'some' autistic traits but that it's only once you get to the extreme of the dimension that individuals start displaying impaired functioning. Of course, at what point that is will depend on a lot of things including IQ and social environment.



*DSM-IV = the psychiatric diagnostic and statistical manual. Effectively, if a disorder isn't in there, it doesn't qualify as a mental disorder by the APA and thus most legal standards. Unfortunatly there are a lot of issues with it and it is horribly out of date (they're working on DSM-V).

Aggravating an underlying; kind of like how smoking cannabis triggers mental disorders in those already prone to it... like left-handed people...Left handed people are prone to mental disorders? Do you have any evidence?

How can you tell the difference between triggering a mental disorder in someone already prone to it, and plain old creating a mental disorder?

One child isn't exactly overwhelming proof of anything. Isn't this just another conspiracy theory for the tin foil hat brigade?

basically yes.

Left handed people are prone to mental disorders? Do you have any evidence?

How can you tell the difference between triggering a mental disorder in someone already prone to it, and plain old creating a mental disorder?

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2007/07/31/lefthanded.html

There you go.

One child isn't exactly overwhelming proof of anything. Isn't this just another conspiracy theory for the tin foil hat brigade?

Not really. I'm sure the tin foil hat brigade will jump all over this, but this is just the findings of one court in regards to one case. This isn't an official 'Vaccines gave kids autism' line from the government. VS did say he/she didn't read through the article very thoroughly.

So yeah, I think we'll file this one with that thread on Obama supporting FARC, but blame this one on ignorance rather than malice/overwhelming need to troll.

Aggravating an underlying; kind of like how smoking cannabis triggers mental disorders in those already prone to it... like left-handed people...

Um...my father is left-handed as is my fiance so please tell me this was sarcasm.

Um...my father is left-handed as is my fiance so please tell me this was sarcasm.

Both my parents are left-handed, and my best friend is ambidextrous. Why does that matter though?

And no, I'm not being sarcastic. If you refer to the link I provided above, it does say that left-handers are more prone to that kind of thing.

It's an old fact that there are more left handed psychopaths than right handed(IMS), oft rolled out to show that correlation doesn't imply causation.


Arguably there may be a neurological reason for this. Attentional deficits present in psychopathy (but arguably not a central feature of it) may be related to deficits in brain laterlization, which also effects handedness. Although that's more of a common cause than anything else.

Edit: Please note, this is not to say left-handers necessarily have attentional deficits (psychopathy related or otherwise), merely that certain differences in brain laterilization (some of which are also related to handidness) can interact with a large number of other factors during development to result in attentional deficits.

Fixed... >.> damnit people... is it so hard to get it right the first time? It goes K-R-Y-O.... if you write it K-Y-R-O... it's... it's just plain wrong.
Ack, sorry. I blame being more used to typing k-y-r than k-r-y. It's all Kyronea's fault, really.

And that hand don't look so right to me...
It's the rightest one I have.
Um...my father is left-handed as is my fiance so please tell me this was sarcasm.
You've never heard that one before?

Um...my father is left-handed as is my fiance so please tell me this was sarcasm.

I think it was, left-handed people are more prone to be dyslexic or have other similar problems though (I think). A few months ago I knew the explanation for it, I believe it had something to do with the fact that certain parts of the brain which are used in tasks like reading are 'normally' in one part of the brain but are in the other part in left-handed people and because of the asymmetry of the brain this can cause certain problems.

And no, I'm not being sarcastic. If you refer to the link I provided above, it does say that left-handers are more prone to that kind of thing.

Which is funny because mental illness does not run in my family and I have family members who were left handed. So until there's more research, I'll remain skeptical. Seems to me there is more here than just being left handed being linked to mental illness.

Which is funny because mental illness does not run in my family and I have family members who were left handed. So until there's more research, I'll remain skeptical. Seems to me there is more here than just being left handed being linked to mental illness.

Did you even bother to read the article that was linked before you tried talking about it?

People really should not be concerned by this result. There are many factors which make individuals more likely to develop schizophrenia and the vast majority of left-handers will never develop a problem. We don’t yet know the precise role of this gene.

Did you even bother to read the article that was linked before you tried talking about it?

Yes I read the article. If they say not to worry then why the hell are they saying being left handed is linked to mental illness? Its silly. As such...my other point stands.

With that, adios.

Yes I read the article. If they say not to worry then why the hell are they saying being left handed is linked to mental illness? Its silly.

Because examining these links could lead us to know more about genetics or how the brain functions instead of giving a good test of how much chance a certain person has to develop mental illness.

Yes I read the article. If they say not to worry then why the hell are they saying being left handed is linked to mental illness? Its silly. As such...my other point stands.


Because there is a link there, which would indicate a common underlying cause (in these case due to genetics and brain laterlization) which can only help us understand better how our brains work.

Or to give you an example (and these numbers are off the top of my head, it's just to give an example of statistics). If say 1% of right-handers developed a particular disorder but 3% of left-handers, chances are that difference is statistically significant (3x more likley) but 97% of left-handers WON'T develop a mental illness, so it's not really a cause for any individual left-hander to worry about it.

why the hell are they saying being left handed is linked to mental illness?

Because, apparently, being left handed makes one more likely to suffer mental illness than being right handed. Because science is about finding correlations and examining the reasons why. They found that left handed people were, all other things being equal, more likely to suffer from certain mental illnesses than right handed people. The question then becomes why.

That's what science does

Ack, sorry. I blame being more used to typing k-y-r than k-r-y. It's all Kyronea's fault, really.

I guess that happens when I don't post enough...

It's the rightest one I have.

Let's see... maybe if we move it this way a little... *sickening crack*... *whistles innocently*

As far as I know, autism is something you're born with. Apparently it's hereditary.

One court finding that in one case 'the vaccinations CHILD received on July 19, 2000, significantly aggravated an underlying mitochondrial disorder, which predisposed her to deficits in cellular energy metabolism, and manifested as a regressive encephalopathy with features of autism spectrum disorder' isn't really the same as a government apology for autism.

They're saying that it happened in one case. In fact, the government technically isn't saying it, some federal court is.


Also, I have a headache at the moment. That's a symptom of a hell of a lot of sicknesses, syndromes and so on. That doesn't mean I'm some kind of medical miracle for managing to live this long with so many things wrong with me.

Not really. I'm sure the tin foil hat brigade will jump all over this, but this is just the findings of one court in regards to one case. This isn't an official 'Vaccines gave kids autism' line from the government. VS did say he/she didn't read through the article very thoroughly.

So yeah, I think we'll file this one with that thread on Obama supporting FARC, but blame this one on ignorance rather than malice/overwhelming need to troll.

To be accurate, VietnamSounds didn't accurately protray what has happened, but neither did you, I'm afraid.

This was not the findings of a federal court. This was the government -- technically US Assistant Attorney General Peter Keisler and other Justice Department officials, on behalf of the Department of Health and Human Services -- CONCEEDING that one of the autism/vaccine lawsuits had merit and the plaintiff deserved compensation.

The article that VS linked contains the government's filing conceding the case. This article (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/government-concedes-vacci_b_88323.html) explains things more.

So this is different than a simple finding by a federal court.

That is not to say that this is an apology by the government or the government is conceding the autism/vaccine link in general.

:)

To be accurate, VietnamSounds didn't accurately protray what has happened, but neither did you, I'm afraid.

This was not the findings of a federal court. This was the government -- technically US Assistant Attorney General Peter Keisler and other Justice Department officials, on behalf of the Department of Health and Human Services -- CONCEEDING that one of the autism/vaccine lawsuits had merit and the plaintiff deserved compensation.

The article that VS linked contains the government's filing conceding the case. This article (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/government-concedes-vacci_b_88323.html) explains things more.

So this is different than a simple finding by a federal court.

That is not to say that this is an apology by the government or the government is conceding the autism/vaccine link in general.

:)

That's why you're the law talking guy and I'm the spammer :)

Aggravating an underlying; kind of like how smoking cannabis triggers mental disorders in those already prone to it... like left-handed people...

Has that turned into a running joke now? :p