NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdXKkjt02jc

This video about Russia was made by a Californian Capitalist that actually lives in Russia and runs an online newspaper that puts, shall we say, not entirely pro-Putin articles. The editor in chief, Mark Ames, of the Exile, is the same Californian Capitalist that made this video and runs the Exile Newspaper, which can be found on the web at www.exile.ru

I'm not advertising the paper, but simply citing a website where you can go to write a letter to the editor, should you disagree with the video.

The problem I have with that video is that it continues the myth of the Soviet Union as an evil conspiracy out to eat our children. Quite frankly, that's not true, and never was true. The motives of the Soviet leadership were no more sinister than the motives of the NATO leaderships.

Were they nationalists? Most certainly. But that's hardly a critique of that is specific to Russia. The Russian leadership was legitimately afraid of Western domination; for its entire history, the USSR was a state with noose placed firmly around its neck.

Was the Soviet Union a stifling autocratic state? Yes. So were many Western allies during the Cold War. But the old myth pervades. Russia is the prime evil of the world stage, and the capitalist west is the hero off to smite the villain. Such childish tails of moral absolutes have no place in international politics, which seems to be the exclusive domain of individuals who cloak their self-interested and often immoral actions with the purest robes of "good intentions."

Were they nationalists? Most certainly. But that's hardly a critique of that is specific to Russia. The Russian leadership was legitimately afraid of Western domination; for its entire history, the USSR was a state with noose placed firmly around its neck.

Russia has been a land with a noose around its neck for centuries, constantly beset by enemies on multiple sides and mired in its own share of problems. The USSR marked the first time that noose loosened, even if only by a small amount; they really did reach a level of economic and social development that had not been seen before and in many ways has yet to be reattained.

Russia has been a land with a noose around its neck for centuries, constantly beset by enemies on multiple sides and mired in its own share of problems. The USSR marked the first time that noose loosened, even if only by a small amount; they really did reach a level of economic and social development that had not been seen before and in many ways has yet to be reattained.

Very true. I watched a documentary about Russian social consciousness, and one of the most startling differences from American consciousness is their perception of the noose placed around their necks. The people of Russia have quite painfully witnessed the attempts by foreign powers to control their country. It is something etched into their consciousness as much as the American perception of America as "the land of the free".

It's also interesting to note that for all the problems of the Soviet Union, no other nation has ever achieved the kind of startling industrialization that it has. In a span of twenty or thirty years, it went from one of the most underdeveloped and poor nations in the world to a level of near parity with the wealthiest and most technologically advanced Western state. Whether that feat could have been achieved without Stalin's NKVD is another question that I do not think we will ever find a satisfactory answer for.

Ahem, are we watching the same video?
The interview of Sergey Markov quite nicely explains why does Russia feel threatened and why it is reacting as it does.
There are also some good points like the one on the Occupation museum in Latvia and the number of countryes invaded by Russia and by the US in the last twenty years.
And the comments at 18:45 about the "western" intervention in non democratic countryes is just...

EDIT: Wait... I might be getting the sarcasm in the OP... Sorry, it's too early for me ;)

Ahem, are we watching the same video?
The interview of Sergey Markov quite nicely explains why does Russia feel threatened and why it is reacting as it does.
There are also some good points like the one on the Occupation museum in Latvia and the number of countryes invaded by Russia and by the US in the last twenty years.

Yes, as a matter of fact we are. I was referring to the fact that Russia only now gets to be included with the good guys. Before that, they were the evil others to be negated, not understood. There is a clear double standard between the Soviet era and the post-Soviet era.

Anyone who was actually alive and conscious in the eighties can tell you the soviets were NOT the badguys there. Anyone outside of the USA was scared more of Reagan and his insane rants then they ever where of Mikhail gorbachev. During the sixties, when peace was nearly there, good old JFK, who in secret tapes can be heard talking about how the worst thing ever would be peace with the damn commies as it would "destroy his stocks in armaments firms". Seriously, bad? Why for what they do in chechnya, those scum deserve all that and more. They pioneered chopping peoples heads off while they were still alive till the last second.

Oh stifling the RUSSIAN MAFIA OWNED MEDIA/COMPANIES/POLITICAL PARTIES. No brainer there. You know the commie party never has problems there, only these "democratic" parties. If you ask me, the corruption democracy allowed in that country is only just now being cleaned up. Before one speaks on the issue of Russia, one must first understand what is actually going on. Please go look up some facts before making such statements. Putin wasnt Time magazines man of the year for nothing.

Ah again some peoples speaking of the " miraculous " industrialisation of the Soviet era...

Did no one remember that all the process was created at the end of the Tsar era, with a lot of foreign assets...never heard of the French bonds ?

Every country has seen others trying to submit them.
Russia does still have a lots of issues about freedom and democracy, this is not propaganda...

Poutin was Time men of the year, so was Hitler just befor WW2, huh...he'e powerful, doesn't meaning he's GOOD.

He's just like Bush ( but he's indeed more charismatic and intelligent than this dumbass ): he access power by fear of terror.
Except he organized himself the bombings at Moskau. Remember that ?
The bombings, this strange hostage crisis in a theater ?

About the economy, Russia is just lucky to have a great amount of Oil and natural gas...there's nothing more.

Democracy is not the source of corruption, and who could really think that the Soviet leaders weren't corrupt ?

Remember of all those nice "datchas" on the Caspian and Black Sea, of those peoples having Mercedes cars when the average citizen have to wait five years for a shitty crappy Russian car ?

Ah again some peoples speaking of the " miraculous " industrialisation of the Soviet era...

Did no one remember that all the process was created at the end of the Tsar era, with a lot of foreign assets...never heard of the French bonds ?

Every country has seen others trying to submit them.
Russia does still have a lots of issues about freedom and democracy, this is not propaganda...

Poutin was Time men of the year, so was Hitler just befor WW2, huh...he'e powerful, doesn't meaning he's GOOD.

He's just like Bush ( but he's indeed more charismatic and intelligent than this dumbass ): he access power by fear of terror.
Except he organized himself the bombings at Moskau. Remember that ?
The bombings, this strange hostage crisis in a theater ?

About the economy, Russia is just lucky to have a great amount of Oil and natural gas...there's nothing more.

Democracy is not the source of corruption, and who could really think that the Soviet leaders weren't corrupt ?

Remember of all those nice "datchas" on the Caspian and Black Sea, of those peoples having Mercedes cars when the average citizen have to wait five years for a shitty crappy Russian car ?

Are you Russian?

French, but I have been in Russia four times now.

I have always been fascinated by this country, but this doesn't close my eyes about a lots of weird things...when the very first day you arrive you have to give money to the custom officers in order to not being arrested, you know there's really something wrong :]

Russia is the devil!!!

French, but I have been in Russia four times now.

I have always been fascinated by this country, but this doesn't close my eyes about a lots of weird things...when the very first day you arrive you have to give money to the custom officers in order to not being arrested, you know there's really something wrong :]

Strange, my mother was in Moskva last year in October, and didn't mention about having to bribe anyone.
She was surprised by the massive show of police forces though.

Russia is the devil!!!

Ahem, Russia is a place, not a person... ;)

Strange, my mother was in Moskva last year in October, and didn't mention about having to bribe anyone.
She was surprised by the massive show of police forces though.

Moskau...it's the only town in the world where police forces " protecting " demonstrators are more numerous than the demonstrators themselves :p

I have heard some efforts have been put to end low level corruption, but I go to less popular tours, like Vladivostock.

She was surprised by the massive show of police forces though.
They are there to protect the innocent citizens and the valued international tourists from the crime which doesn't exit in Russia because all the criminals are in the so called "democratic" opposition which doesn't exist.
So they are there just so you feel safe and remember what's good for you, comr... I mean citizen.

The problem I have with that video is that it continues the myth of the Soviet Union as an evil conspiracy out to eat our children. Quite frankly, that's not true, and never was true.

Correct. The liberals are the one who want to eat your babies.

Poutin was Time men of the year, so was Hitler just befor WW2, huh...he'e powerful, doesn't meaning he's GOOD.


...and Stalin and Nixon were TWICE - just shows that Time is run by idiots.

Ahem, Russia is a place, not a person... ;)

I was going for the dramatic effect.:D

But seriously, I became enamored of Russian history when I was like, 12 I think. Particularly Tsarist Russia. I was browsing through my mom's magazines and there was an article depicting the tragic life and death of the Romanov (http://images.google.com.pr/imgres?imgurl=http://www.hattiesgems.com/Tatiana.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.hattiesgems.com/Children.html&h=218&w=252&sz=56&hl=es&start=13&um=1&tbnid=KMXiUYp07kKvoM:&tbnh=96&tbnw=111&prev=/images%3Fq%3DTatiana%2BRomanov%26um%3D1%26hl%3Des%26lr%3D)(Romanoff?) dinasty. I was taken by the figures of Alexei, the young Czarevich with Hemophilia, and the Duchess Anastacia and Tatiana. It was truly sad the way in which their young lives came to an end. I saw Alexei Romanov's face and Grand Duchess Tatiana Maria's face, and I think they'll forever be burned in my mind.
http://www.romanov-memorial.com/Pic/pr_alexis_original.jpg
Alexei

http://worldroots.com/brigitte/gifs/romanov57a.jpg
Tatiana

Russia is the devil!!!
And you must be one of those people that succumbs to the propaganda fed to you by controlled media to blind your eyes to what Russia really is. Read Facts,Get informed,then post.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
By a political standpoint,Russia is,and until the United States,or NATO has a puppet government installed which they can control through terror and fear,will allways be the country to hate. The reason?
Because the CCCP had the guts to stand up against corperate imperialism and police state terrorism as exhibited by the United States.And I'm glad to see so does the new-found Russian Federation.
In short,John Kennedy,George W Bush,and Reagon boo-hooed because their little terror tactics that was in essence,nuclear weapons and military diplomacy didn't work on Vladimir Putin,Mikhail Gorbachev and Nikita Kruchev. So we had to give everyone in the world,and in the United States somone to hate to distract people from how their own governments were terrorising them.
As for the government being corrupt.
I want you,to show me a government in this world that is NOT in one respect or another corrupt. Every country has had it's bad leader,The Soviet Union had Joseph Stalin,Germany had Adolf Hitler,Britain had Tony Blair,And the United States had Nixon and currently George Bush. The only time a politician is telling the truth is when he's not speaking at all. You can pretty much count on any politician to do 80% of the opposite of what he said he'd do on television.
The Soviet Government was very far from evil.As stated above,it had it's bad leaders,and it's good leaders. The Soviet Union was founded on the basis of total equality,a classless society in which you cannot hate or discriminate another because of assets that he or she possessed,because essentially,you can attain said assets as well. And Unlike a Capitalist based government where,country wide events (Notable Exceptions are observed of course) go unoticed for the people not directly involved,what happens to one man in the Soviet Union,happens to every man in the Soviet Union (Again,Notable Exceptions observed). Everyone worked for 1 goal,EVERYONE. In Capitalist regimes,everyone worked for hisself,there is no "Helping the other man" unless you're in a church.
A line from the political shit list
Capitalism: This is MY shit.
Communism: This is OUR shit.
For those who say "The Soviet Union was oppressive,evil,kill the big bad CCCP" If you did what you were told you lived a decent life. Only those who broke the law,or behaved in a way that was detrimental to the communist government or the Soviet way of life suffered.
I.E. People who kill other people,then wonder why the police are so mean to them.

Anyone who was actually alive and conscious in the eighties can tell you the soviets were NOT the badguys there.

Then you have absolutely no clue about what Reagan's goals were, when dealing with the Soviet Union. He was morally appalled by not just by the prospect of nuclear warfare, but also the basic concepts of Mutually Assured Destruction. You might be interested in remembering that he was deeply impacted by the movie "The Day After." You might also remember that it was he and Gorbachev who played the game of one-upmanship at Reykjavik, that it was he and Gorbachev who negotiated the INF treaty, the first arms control treaty that actually reduced the number of weapons deployed.

Even at that, the Evil Empire type of talk was early in the Presidency, when the USSR seemed to be nothing more than a calcified gerontocracy under the drugged up leadership of Brezhnev, Andropov and Chernenko. The rhetoric changed not long after Gorbachev came to power, and "Evil Empire" Reagan rapidly became, as Gorbachev described him to small child in Red Square, "Grandfather Reagan."

Interestingly enough, in spite of all of the rhetoric, there never was a general European war.

Because the CCCP had the guts to stand up against corperate imperialism and police state terrorism as exhibited by the United States.

Don't you mean Soviet Imperialism and police state terrorism?

How many people were arrested and detained in the US for Xeroxing "banned books"? How many in the USSR?

And you must be one of those people that succumbs to the propaganda fed to you by controlled media to blind your eyes to what Russia really is. Read Facts,Get informed,then post.

And you must be one of those people with no sense of humour, get one and then come back and post...

If you did what you were told you lived a decent life. Only those who broke the law,or behaved in a way that was detrimental to the communist government or the Soviet way of life suffered.

Several hundreds to thousands of dead engineers, scientists, doctors and assorted talented people who dared to speak up when a dumb idea was proposed by a bigwig or who failed a few times gives lie to this statement.

I'd like to say that you're Andaras's incarnation, but you don't quite have as many "kulaks and traitors to the Soviet Union" spiels. I'm keeping my eye on you though.

...and Stalin and Nixon were TWICE - just shows that Time is run by idiots.

Person Of The Year is awarded to the person who has most influenced events in that year, not the 'best person of the year'.

So desu, Dyakovo-san.:D

What's really interesting is that this person has no idea what it's like to live under a Communist regime and he defends it. He's from the US. And unlike Andaras and his views of Communism, I see no proper fundaments in Mr. CommunistWorkers Party but a devotion for a Russian past that doesn't belong to him. If you read his posts, specially on the thread of Mevdedev, you can read between the lines and clearly see that he's infatuated by Russia. So, I will not even bother.;)

I rather feel sorry for him, your post was so clearly in jest if he couldn't see that he is sadly deficient. :(

And you must be one of those people with no sense of humour, get one and then come back and post...

So desu, Dyakovo-san.:D

What's really interesting is that this person has no idea what it's like to live under a Communist regime and he defends it. He's from the US. And unlike Andaras and his views of Communism, I see no proper fundaments in Mr. CommunistWorkers Party but a devotion for a Russian past that doesn't belong to him. If you read his posts, specially on the thread of Mevdedev, you can read between the lines and clearly see that he's infatuated by Russia. So, I will not even bother.;)

I rather feel sorry for him, your post was so clearly in jest if he couldn't see that he is sadly deficient. :(

Don't feel sad, but be a teacher.:D Mayhaps we have the reincarnation of Andaras here.:p

Mayhaps we have the reincarnation of Andaras here.:p
Hey, Andaras is not dead yet! Although no longer in its Prime.

Don't feel sad, but be a teacher.:D Mayhaps we have the reincarnation of Andaras here.:p

Nah, its not an AP puppet, there was no bizarre Marxist rant in there.

Hey, Andaras is not dead yet! Although no longer in its Prime.

Oh, I know that. But isn't it tempting to have a little Andaras?;) Well, not as well versed as Andaras is, but nevertheless... interesting.

Oh, I know that. But isn't it tempting to have a little Andaras?;)

NO
One is quite enough, thank you very much.

Nah, its not and AP puppet, there was no bizarre Marxist rant in there.

Oh, but there will be. Just wait until he gets back on and sees all our posts. The inner Marx in him is bound to come out.:D

Oh, but there will be. Just wait until he gets back on and sees all our posts. The inner Marx in him is bound to come out.:D

this better?


Russia is the devil!!!
Россия не дьявол, по крайней мере это не было под просвещенным правилом Сталина!:upyours:

this better?



Россия не дьявол, по крайней мере это не было под просвещенным правилом Сталина!:upyours:

Russia is not the devil, at least not under Stalin?:confused:
LOL!

Russia is not the devil, at least not under Stalin?:confused:
LOL!

Well, you wanted a little AP...

Well, you wanted a little AP...

Yeah, I did. And I got me so AP. Thanks.:D

Russia may not be evil, but you have to admit they make the best Bond villains ;)

Russia may not be evil, but you have to admit they make the best Bond villains ;)

Well, yeah, if anything.;) Also good vodka.:D

I wuv wusswa. <3

http://adsoftheworld.com/files/images/Stolichnaya-One-Russian.preview.jpg
:D

Also good vodka.:D

I wuv wusswa. <3

And you must be one of those people that succumbs to the propaganda fed to you by controlled media to blind your eyes to what Russia really is. Read Facts,Get informed,then post.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
By a political standpoint,Russia is,and until the United States,or NATO has a puppet government installed which they can control through terror and fear,will allways be the country to hate. The reason?
Because the CCCP had the guts to stand up against corperate imperialism and police state terrorism as exhibited by the United States.And I'm glad to see so does the new-found Russian Federation.
In short,John Kennedy,George W Bush,and Reagon boo-hooed because their little terror tactics that was in essence,nuclear weapons and military diplomacy didn't work on Vladimir Putin,Mikhail Gorbachev and Nikita Kruchev. So we had to give everyone in the world,and in the United States somone to hate to distract people from how their own governments were terrorising them.
As for the government being corrupt.
I want you,to show me a government in this world that is NOT in one respect or another corrupt. Every country has had it's bad leader,The Soviet Union had Joseph Stalin,Germany had Adolf Hitler,Britain had Tony Blair,And the United States had Nixon and currently George Bush. The only time a politician is telling the truth is when he's not speaking at all. You can pretty much count on any politician to do 80% of the opposite of what he said he'd do on television.
The Soviet Government was very far from evil.As stated above,it had it's bad leaders,and it's good leaders. The Soviet Union was founded on the basis of total equality,a classless society in which you cannot hate or discriminate another because of assets that he or she possessed,because essentially,you can attain said assets as well. And Unlike a Capitalist based government where,country wide events (Notable Exceptions are observed of course) go unoticed for the people not directly involved,what happens to one man in the Soviet Union,happens to every man in the Soviet Union (Again,Notable Exceptions observed). Everyone worked for 1 goal,EVERYONE. In Capitalist regimes,everyone worked for hisself,there is no "Helping the other man" unless you're in a church.
A line from the political shit list
Capitalism: This is MY shit.
Communism: This is OUR shit.
For those who say "The Soviet Union was oppressive,evil,kill the big bad CCCP" If you did what you were told you lived a decent life. Only those who broke the law,or behaved in a way that was detrimental to the communist government or the Soviet way of life suffered.
I.E. People who kill other people,then wonder why the police are so mean to them.

Do tell me. What Russia really is? Do enlighten me, you, oh-so-insightful specimen of American blindness. Enlighten me, you, one who's never, and it's noticable, lived under a regime where nothing belongs to you, the state tells you when to jump, what to buy, what to think.
Oh, but it's so awsome that, all of a sudden, and because as an American citizen you have a right to own private property and do as you please, you have taken a liking to Communism (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm). This is you: From my private house, in an entirely different country, I can bemoan and criticize and condemn those who really see what Russia, sadly, is: the model of the complete failure of Communist ideals. Marx, unfortunately, although crafting an excellent idea, in the practice it failed miserably. Take a look at Nazi Germany (http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/23180.html) and Fascist Italy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_fascism)and Franquist Spain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain_under_Franco). Do tell me, what happened to those countries in the long run? Tell me, you who knows so much of Communism from reading 2 books and dellusions of grandeur, what Mother Russia really is to us, Capitalist scum. Granted, Russia had tremendous advances under Stalin, quick economical growth. Did it last? No. Enlighten your own self (http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-38561/Russia).
No, the Russian governemt wasn't based upon equality. Far from it. The amount of strife and pain the country underwent is documented (http://www.nathanielturner.com/communismasrussianimperialism.htm). Those who didn't agree with the shit the government tell them to were pushed around, coherced, killed (http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR.html). You, who know so much of Russia, surely know about it. And the worst part is that you accuse me of being fed bullcrap from the media. I know what the media can do. But I read, I listen, I inform myself. And I don't claim to understand something that isn't my reality. I've never lived under a Communist regime. I don't know how much people suffer on them, personally. Yet my family knows. And it's no picnic, it's no ball-room talk. People suffer incredibly when the government who's supposed to portect them, attacks them for thinking differently. People, who have an inherent right to think what they want, are born free. The very nature of being human dictates that. And do spare me, because I'm not entering a theological argument here. To have a group of power hungry men tell us how to dress, think and do is a complete violation of our rights. Does that make me a Capitalist, then so be it.
Little boy, you're the one who needs to inform yourself before you ennunciate such crap. Those who think you're like Andaras are sorely mistaken. At least Andaras backs his claims with hard evidence, you're just ranting.
Russia, as a country, isn't evil. The people of Russia aren't evil. Whatever comes from Russia, isn't evil. But their government officials are.
And by the by, if you read my two posts before you attacked me, you would've seen that I was jesting. But since you failed to see that, I don't care how you'll take this post.
No hard feelings, right?;) Give me a break.

PS: Learn the correct meaning of Imperialism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism) so when you use the word you don't sound like a complete dunce.

I was going for the dramatic effect.:D

But seriously, I became enamored of Russian history when I was like, 12 I think. Particularly Tsarist Russia. I was browsing through my mom's magazines and there was an article depicting the tragic life and death of the Romanov (http://images.google.com.pr/imgres?imgurl=http://www.hattiesgems.com/Tatiana.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.hattiesgems.com/Children.html&h=218&w=252&sz=56&hl=es&start=13&um=1&tbnid=KMXiUYp07kKvoM:&tbnh=96&tbnw=111&prev=/images%3Fq%3DTatiana%2BRomanov%26um%3D1%26hl%3Des%26lr%3D)(Romanoff?) dinasty. I was taken by the figures of Alexei, the young Czarevich with Hemophilia, and the Duchess Anastacia and Tatiana. It was truly sad the way in which their young lives came to an end. I saw Alexei Romanov's face and Grand Duchess Tatiana Maria's face, and I think they'll forever be burned in my mind.
http://www.romanov-memorial.com/Pic/pr_alexis_original.jpg
Alexei

http://worldroots.com/brigitte/gifs/romanov57a.jpg
Tatiana


The Romanovs were good for Russia? How much weed did you smoke to come up with that statement? Under the Tsar Nicholas II (the last Romanov) literacy rate in Russia was 9%. Poverty was at 70%. They sent men to fight a war WITHOUT guns. That's how poor Russia was. Remember that one gun per two people? That wasn't the Soviets, that was the Romanovs! The Tsarist Army officers could do anything they wanted to their enlsted men. The terror agents of Tsar Nicholas II killed million of children. But when the Tsar's kids get killed, oh no, it's a tragedy, look at their faces!

The Romanovs were loved in the West though. They were easily controlled and under them France and the United Kingdom felt free to exploit Russia's natural resources, so the Romanovs got great reps in the West. Plus when a Romanov (Emperor Paul I) did something the Brits didn't like, Paul sent the Cossacks to fight the Brits in India, they sent their agent, Count Peter Pahlen, to have him assasinated. Rather dark story actually.

And Tsar Nicholas II did absolutely nothing good for Russia. Take Cheney, give him absolute power to control the US, and let him rule as he pleases. That would be a great picture of Tsar Nicholas II. Also, the deportations to Siberia and an early version of the Gulag system was invented by the Romanovs. And anyone who disagreed twith Tsar Nick, went. So gimme a break please, these Romanovs don't deserve any sympathy, well except for their daughters, but that's about it.

The Russian people failed their Tsar.

The Romanovs were good for Russia? How much weed did you smoke to come up with that statement? Under the Tsar Nicholas II (the last Romanov) literacy rate in Russia was 9%. Poverty was at 70%. They sent men to fight a war WITHOUT guns. That's how poor Russia was. Remember that one gun per two people? That wasn't the Soviets, that was the Romanovs! The Tsarist Army officers could do anything they wanted to their enlsted men. The terror agents of Tsar Nicholas II killed million of children. But when the Tsar's kids get killed, oh no, it's a tragedy, look at their faces!

The Romanovs were loved in the West though. They were easily controlled and under them France and the United Kingdom felt free to exploit Russia's natural resources, so the Romanovs got great reps in the West. Plus when a Romanov (Emperor Paul I) did something the Brits didn't like, Paul sent the Cossacks to fight the Brits in India, they sent their agent, Count Peter Pahlen, to have him assasinated. Rather dark story actually.

And Tsar Nicholas II did absolutely nothing good for Russia. Take Cheney, give him absolute power to control the US, and let him rule as he pleases. That would be a great picture of Tsar Nicholas II. Also, the deportations to Siberia and an early version of the Gulag system was invented by the Romanovs. And anyone who disagreed twith Tsar Nick, went. So gimme a break please, these Romanovs don't deserve any sympathy, well except for their daughters, but that's about it.

Nowhere in my post do I mention that the Romanovs were good for Russia. How much weed did you smoke, dude? Did you actually read my post? On the contrary, the Romanov dinasty was horrendous to Russian history. 300+ years of tyranny was enough. All I posted was that the faces of Alexei, Tatiana and Anastacia will forever be burned in my mind. They were very young and the way they died was tragic.

Nowhere in my post do I mention that the Romanovs were good for Russia. How much weed did you smoke, dude? Did you actually read my post? On the contrary, the Romanov dinasty was horrendous to Russian history. 300+ years of tyranny was enough. All I posted was that the faces of Alexei, Tatiana and Anastacia will forever be burned in my mind. They were very young and the way they died was tragic.

300+ years of increasingly inbred and stupid tyranny, you mean? Even worse than the Hapsburgs. At least the Romanovs managed to avoid staring out inbred.
Of course, at least the Romanovs managed to go out with style.

Funny thing though, if I understand correctly, most of the Romanov line was actually German. As was much of the Russian aristocracy.

lol russia sucks balls

:sniper:Don't you mean Soviet Imperialism and police state terrorism?

How many people were arrested and detained in the US for Xeroxing "banned books"? How many in the USSR?

I've lived in the USSR, and umm, had "banned books". The government knew that they were banned, yet didn't really do jack shit. It's like the drinking age laws in Europe, yeah they exist, but only morons think they are being followed. Please do tell me, how many people in the USSR were arrested for xeroxing banned books? People weren't arrested for reading or distributing the books, they were arrested for, what was it, oh yeah - calling for another revolution.

Geez, the Russian government is so weird, and so was the Soviet government, when people want stability they arrest those who call for revolution. Weirdos, don't they know that the people don't know what's best for them, but corporations do! Sarcasm is beautiful and fills this paragraph.

Weirdos, don't they know that the people don't know what's best for them, but Central Comitee do!

Fixed :)

Do tell me....
Russia, as a country, isn't evil. The people of Russia aren't evil. Whatever comes from Russia, isn't evil. But their government officials are.
And by the by, if you read my two posts before you attacked me, you would've seen that I was jesting. But since you failed to see that, I don't care how you'll take this post.
No hard feelings, right?;) Give me a break.

PS: Learn the correct meaning of Imperialism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism) so when you use the word you don't sound like a complete dunce.

Did you umm, watch the video? You know what I find fascinating about the anti-Russian government and the "Russian gov't. is so corrupt" types? They don't really give a shit about unbiased information. Mark Ames, the guy in the video that you didn't watch, but quickly ranted about the evils in the Russian gov't, showing how mis-informed and stupid you are, again wouldn't have happened if you, oh I don't know - WATCHED the video, which you didn't. Anyways Mark Ames was born in California, moved to Russia, runs a newspaper in Russia, trades stocks, and has pro-Putin people (Zaitchik) and the extreme of anti-Putin people (Limonov) write for his newspaper, www.exile.ru that is published in Russia. The video is as unbiased as you can get, please watch it before going off again and making yourself once more look like a dolt.

Link (again): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdXKkjt02jc

The Romanovs weren't a failure initially. Tsars Peter the Great and Catherine the Great at least knew what they were doing. But the last of the Romanovs, Tsar Nicholas the II, was a complete failure in every aspect of his life. It's good that his genes are no longer with us. And all of the Communist leaders, even Stalin, were better then Nicholas the II.

And Nanako or whatever, you tried to evoke emotion by posting the faces, making them look as victims of the corrupt commies. In fact they were as tyrannical as one can get, not even Stalin was feared by the Russian populace as much as Tsar Nicholas the II. Stalin only killed people for political purposes, Tsar Nicholas II killed people randomly. The way to survive under Stalin was to simply stay away from politics, the way to survive under Tsar Nicholas II was to emigrate.

Thats where the 'increasingly' came from. The first Romanovs were pretty decent leaders by the standard of their time. Peter the Great, while a complete jackass, was exactly what Russia needed at the point in time where he became Tsar. If he HADNT been Tsar at that point, I imagine most of northern Russia would be part of Sweden at this point.
I'd say that Alexander II was the Romanov's 'last gasp'. He was at least willing to pretend not to be the 19th century version of a tinpot dictator, even if his reforms were halfhearted and did more harm than good.

300+ years of increasingly inbred and stupid tyranny, you mean? Even worse than the Hapsburgs. At least the Romanovs managed to avoid staring out inbred.
Of course, at least the Romanovs managed to go out with style.

Funny thing though, if I understand correctly, most of the Romanov line was actually German. As was much of the Russian aristocracy.

The Romanovs weren't a failure initially. Tsars Peter the Great and Catherine the Great at least knew what they were doing. But the last of the Romanovs, Tsar Nicholas the II, was a complete failure in every aspect of his life. It's good that his genes are no longer with us. And all of the Communist leaders, even Stalin, were better then Nicholas the II.

And Nanako or whatever, you tried to evoke emotion by posting the faces, making them look as victims of the corrupt commies. In fact they were as tyrannical as one can get, not even Stalin was feared by the Russian populace as much as Tsar Nicholas the II. Stalin only killed people for political purposes, Tsar Nicholas II killed people randomly. The way to survive under Stalin was to simply stay away from politics, the way to survive under Tsar Nicholas II was to emigrate.

...and Stalin and Nixon were TWICE - just shows that Time is run by idiots.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd80/AwXomeMan/morbo.jpg

Person of the Year does not work that way!

All I can say is, if you think the Central Comittee still runs Russia, watch the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdXKkjt02jc

All I can say is, if you think the Central Comittee still runs Russia, watch the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdXKkjt02jc

Well, technically speaking, the people who were on the Central Committee of the CPSU are now the wealthy oligarchs that dictate much of Russia's policies. Funny how those guys very conveniently forgot they were communists when Yelstin sold off all of the public assets to his buds.

lol russia sucks balls

Florida? Is that a state that's even gotten it's voting right? Florida had more general election disputes then any other states. C'mon guys, it's not that hard; what you do is that you design ballots for the hole of Al Gore actually corresponds to Al Gore, not Pat Buchanan. Then, when voting, you double check the ballot to make sure that you have actually voted for the right candidate.

There's another dispute now between Hillary and Obama, so I'm going to clear it up for all Floridans:

Hillary is a woman, not a man, and she is the establishment (that means she is a white house insider, that means she lived in the White House). Remember Bill? She's his wife.

Obama is a black guy. He's not Muslim, he's Christian. He's new to politics in Washington and wants change, that means that his program will be as different from Bush as Congress lets it be.

I sincerely hope this guide to voting will help all Floridians, should the Democrats have a re-vote in Florida. C'mon guys, you can get it right on the second time, and a 50% success rate, (although a failure even in Texas) is great for Florida! Go get 'em Gators.

A mass of land can't be evil, the people who run that land can.

The Romanovs were good for Russia?

Where exactly did she say that, all I got out of it was she felt sorry for Alexei, Anastasia, and Tatiana Romanov?

And Nanako or whatever, you tried to evoke emotion by posting the faces, making them look as victims of the corrupt commies. In fact they were as tyrannical as one can get, not even Stalin was feared by the Russian populace as much as Tsar Nicholas the II.

I did not try to evoke emotion by posting their photos. Once again, I felt sorry for the children of Tsar Nicholas II. The children were killed in a horrible way, their parents be damned. And if you read my previous posts, you would know that making people sympathetic to them was the farthest thing from my mind. But since you´re so proned into making me look like a misinformed dolt, do whatever you like.;) And anyway you put it, Stalin was as tyrannical as Nicholas II was. Perhaps even more so, the Tsar killed like any other of the Russian Tsars, but Stalin, he was hiding under the mantle of ¨saving¨ Russia and committed attrocities in the same way. Neither has a justification.

Where exactly did she say that, all I got out of it was she felt sorry for Alexei, Anastasia, and Tatiana Romanov?

And their dog. And the butler.

I did not try to evoke emotion by posting their photos. Once again, I felt sorry for the children of Tsar Nicholas II. The children were killed in a horrible way, their parents be damned. And if you read my previous posts, you would know that making people sympathetic to them was the farthest thing from my mind. But since you´re so proned into making me look like a misinformed dolt, do whatever you like.;) And anyway you put it, Stalin was as tyrannical as Nicholas II was. Perhaps even more so, the Tsar killed like any other of the Russian Tsars, but Stalin, he was hiding under the mantle of ¨saving¨ Russia and committed attrocities in the same way. Neither has a justification.

Feeling sorry is not evoking emotion? You mean you don't try to get sympathy for the people you feel sorry for? Wow, I learn something new everyday. And all I was saying is watch the video, so you won't look like a dolt. I'm not calling you a dolt, I'm simply helping you out in not being one. ;)

...I'm going to clear it up for all Floridans:

Hillary is a woman, not a man, and she is the establishment (that means she is a white house insider, that means she lived in the White House). Remember Bill? She's his wife.

Obama is a black guy. He's not Muslim, he's Christian. He's new to politics in Washington and wants change, that means that his program will be as different from Bush as Congress lets it be.I'm sorry, but your assessment is too complicated for Floridians to understand.

My Apologies,I am sorry for the personal attack,apon further reading it was uncalled for.
However,I still completely disagree with your politics,whole heartadly.
Apparently the only thing you studied was the political garbage fed to you when you were a child growing up in school,and believed it. Lets leave the Schoolyard nonsence out of this.

I know one things for sure,Russia is not what other people say it is. Take Nazi Germany for instance,America dubbed it as an evil place. But for awhile (Until around the end of 1943,and if you were a German) People were treated quite well.
The Same went for the Soviet Union (Stalin Aside). It was NEVER the place that the United States made it out to be,as I said,they made it sound evil because they wouldan't live the American way. Any country that the American government felt didn't treat their people like the American government thought they should became "An Evil Empire".
All countries have their pros and their cons,and for some reason,it's never the good things that get spoken of. People who attack Russia based on these should also read about the good things that came of the Soviet Union's time. Such as the equality aspect,the strength in Industry and Agriculture,the strengthening economy. All of this,Though eventually ruined because of the Cold War,are things you have to take in consideration. Living standards were by all means not lugurious in most aspects,but they weren't like the slums either. Until the cold war that is.
As far as the dead engineers go,you have me there,I was never an engineer,so I had no data on it. But in future discussions I'll take it into consideration,and,in defence,theres been many occasions of the same treatments in American institutions and others around the world,maybe not as harsh as death,but there have been reprocussions with the same spirit.
And no,I am not another,what ever his name is Reincarnation,I'm not going to go into a tyrade and call everyone I disagree with a "Fascist" or a "Capitalist". I was kind of thinking thats what forums are for,people are suppost to disagree with you. Hence the fun of them.
And no,you're right,I have no sence of humor,In fact I don't think I have much of a personality at all. Sometimes I believe I am really an android from outer space,but I have no data to back that up,either.

Florida? Is that a state that's even gotten it's voting right? Florida had more general election disputes then any other states. C'mon guys, it's not that hard; what you do is that you design ballots for the hole of Al Gore actually corresponds to Al Gore, not Pat Buchanan. Then, when voting, you double check the ballot to make sure that you have actually voted for the right candidate.

There's another dispute now between Hillary and Obama, so I'm going to clear it up for all Floridans:

Hillary is a woman, not a man, and she is the establishment (that means she is a white house insider, that means she lived in the White House). Remember Bill? She's his wife.

Obama is a black guy. He's not Muslim, he's Christian. He's new to politics in Washington and wants change, that means that his program will be as different from Bush as Congress lets it be.

I sincerely hope this guide to voting will help all Floridians, should the Democrats have a re-vote in Florida. C'mon guys, you can get it right on the second time, and a 50% success rate, (although a failure even in Texas) is great for Florida! Go get 'em Gators.
Wow. What a great morning. I got drunk last night, came back, for some reason posted "lol russia sucks balls", which it does...and someone (hopefully a Russian) defending defending democracy criticized Florida.:D

Ok.
1. LOL at the fact that you're seriously complaining about Floridian democracy in defense of Russia.
2.
http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/uploads/putindec102007.jpg

I would say that Russian politics, and the current Russian leaders aren't playing by "the rules", but that does not mean that they are evil. It just means they aren't playing fair.

Person Of The Year is awarded to the person who has most influenced events in that year, not the 'best person of the year'.

Don't forget "You" were the Person of the Year as well.


That was so funny when that piece of crap came out.

Take Nazi Germany for instance,America dubbed it as an evil place. But for awhile (Until around the end of 1943,and if you were a German) People were treated quite well.
A lot of Germans would beg to differ on that one, sadly most are dead now for being gay, Jewish, Gypsy, communist or general pain in the NSDAP ass.

The Same went for the Soviet Union (Stalin Aside).
I agree wholeheartedly. You could live a quiet, semi-decent life there if you were lucky not to be on a current black list (my friend couldn't study at the Lomonosov University because he was a Jew, and it was under Gorbachev!) and didn't do anything to piss off the authorities.
Sucks ass, balls and everything else, I say.
And if you believe that all the people here who disagree with you do so because they were brainwashed by the United States, you overestimate the power of propaganda and underestimate your debaters at the same time.

A lot of Germans would beg to differ on that one, sadly most are dead now for being gay, Jewish, Gypsy, communist or general pain in the NSDAP ass.


I agree wholeheartedly. You could live a quiet, semi-decent life there if you were lucky not to be on a current black list (my friend couldn't study at the Lomonosov University because he was a Jew, and it was under Gorbachev!) and didn't do anything to piss off the authorities.
Sucks ass, balls and everything else, I say.
And if you believe that all the people here who disagree with you do so because they were brainwashed by the United States, you overestimate the power of propaganda and underestimate your debaters at the same time.
I agree.

Everyone, read the book "The Gulag Archipelago"

That will give you some insight on the "joys" of the Marxist dictatorship.

If you hate Russia ( I don't, even though I'm Polish ), work on an alternative to gas and oil. You WILL hate them more when in around 2030 all countries except Russia and russia's allies/friends will not have it.

I am ready to accept Russia's apologies for their crimes (e.g. Katyń massacre still proclaimed as a lie) and apologize for any (were there?) things that Polish did, and finally create some common history, and not throw acid-words at each other.

If you hate Russia ( I don't, even though I'm Polish ), work on an alternative to gas and oil. You WILL hate them more when in around 2030 all countries except Russia and russia's allies/friends will not have it.

I am ready to accept Russia's apologies for their crimes (e.g. Katyń massacre still proclaimed as a lie) and apologize for any (were there?) things that Polish did, and finally create some common history, and not throw acid-words at each other.

I'm pretty sure you guys were kicked around too much to do anything. No offense, I like the Polish people (I'm part Polish). You guys got great food and you gave us Pope John Paul II.

So? Some stupid russian newspaper dislikes it's government. Since when is that a crime?

So? Some stupid russian newspaper dislikes it's government. Since when is that a crime?

Putin's actually arrested anti-government media persons.

He's a closet-dictator.

Putin's actually arrested anti-government media persons.

He's a closet-dictator.

Soon to be coming out of the closet!

Soon to be coming out of the closet!
:eek:

Funny thing - on the exile.ru page there's an article titled Russian Academia Under Fire about the closing of Western-friendly academy after surprise fire inspection:
Russia's fire epidemic is not just a threat to public safety, a taker of lives, or a destroyer of property. The threat of fire also gives the lowly Russian bureaucrat a measure of political and administrative power. There is no better example of how the chinovnik brandishes his fire code weapon than the recent closing of European University in St. Petersburg (EUSP). No one knows why agents from the Russian Ministry of Disaster Emergency (MChS) conducted a surprise fire inspection on 18 January which led to the University's closure. Was it a Kremlin sponsored attack on the liberal, Western orientated university? Was it punishment for accepting a grant from the European Union to monitor elections? I happen to think that European University's fate is not the result of some directive from above. Rather it is yet another example of the capricious nature of the Russian bureaucrat and the lengths he will go to prove his political loyalty to his bosses.

What's funny about it? I dare you to find it in the russian version of the newspaper. Apparently you can rant about unfair Putin administration until you're blue in the face, as long as you do it in English.

Wow. What a great morning. I got drunk last night, came back, for some reason posted "lol russia sucks balls", which it does...and someone (hopefully a Russian) defending defending democracy criticized Florida.:D

Ok.
1. LOL at the fact that you're seriously complaining about Floridian democracy in defense of Russia.
2.
http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/uploads/putindec102007.jpg

A Californian. But you do much better as a Floridian then a Californian, so it's no wonder why you switched. And I wasn't complaining, I was exposing your intelligence, which can be summed up by a state of perma-drunkenness. "When I was drunk, Russia sucked balls, and now that I'm sober, Russia still sucks balls." Conclusion: Floridians don't really have a sober state. I mean come on, you guys have Jews voting for a person who admires Hitler. And your governor's ok with it. At least in Russia, the hole for Dmitri Medvedev, actually corresponds to *GASP* Dmitri Medvedev. It's like magic. And in California, the hole for Arnold Swartznegger actually lets you vote for Arnold Swatznegger *GASP*. Wow, it's like magic to Floridians. And I won't even bother talking about Florida gun laws, I'll just say that you really don't need a semi-automatic for self-defense. But then again in a state where Jews "vote" for Nazi-admirers....

As per Russia: if you think it sucks balls, you really need to catch up with the times. This is 2008, not 1998 boii.

A lot of Germans would beg to differ on that one, sadly most are dead now for being gay, Jewish, Gypsy, communist or general pain in the NSDAP ass.


I agree wholeheartedly. You could live a quiet, semi-decent life there if you were lucky not to be on a current black list (my friend couldn't study at the Lomonosov University because he was a Jew, and it was under Gorbachev!) and didn't do anything to piss off the authorities.
Sucks ass, balls and everything else, I say.
And if you believe that all the people here who disagree with you do so because they were brainwashed by the United States, you overestimate the power of propaganda and underestimate your debaters at the same time.


Umm, about the power of propaganda I got two words that will obliterate your entire argument: North Korea. Your argument posted above could easily be used by any North Korean. Oh, and BTW, since you are all bitching about Russia not having an independent media, can you name me an American network that's not controlled by a corporation?

And you're one of those bitter Jewish Berezovski people aren't you? The ones that go "those damn Russians, they saved us from Nazis only to discriminate against us! Damn them, why'd they save us?!"

As per Russian Independent media, it exists on the Internet, that's largely unregulated by the Kremlin; and this Independent media produced this video, that I have yet to hear any arguments against, but those who didn't watch it will keep on whining about Russia's lack of Independent Media. Ahhh, the irony.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdXKkjt02jc

You're welcome to read Ames' views of Putin at www.exile.ru

I would say that Russian politics, and the current Russian leaders aren't playing by "the rules", but that does not mean that they are evil. It just means they aren't playing fair.

They're playing by Russia's rules.
Amount of times Putin violated Russia's Constitution: 0
Amount of times Western Media predicted Putin would violate the Russian Constitution: 200-300
Amount of times Western Media still thinks Putin will violate the Russian Constitution: 200-300

If you want to get Putin's politics, all you have to do is read the Russian Constitution; of course for that you'd have to know Russian, or get a good translation.

If you hate Russia ( I don't, even though I'm Polish ), work on an alternative to gas and oil. You WILL hate them more when in around 2030 all countries except Russia and russia's allies/friends will not have it.

I am ready to accept Russia's apologies for their crimes (e.g. Katyń massacre still proclaimed as a lie) and apologize for any (were there?) things that Polish did, and finally create some common history, and not throw acid-words at each other.

ROFL. Someone's living in the real World. And I agree, Russians should apologize for Katyn, but keep in mind it was a KGB operation that most Russians didn't approve of. So forcing Russia to apologize for Katyn would be like Forcing the US or the UK for apologizing for everything that the CIA/MI-6 did. Also Poles need to set WWII record straight. For instance, in the case of the Warsaw uprising: the Red Army told the Poles that they would not be able to assist, unless the uprising took place as their soldiers entered the city. The British Intelligence said to go ahead with the uprising, and that the Red Army will support it, despite the Red Army saying they won't be able to. The result was the Red Army's inability to support it. The problem was that the Red Army was stopped before they reached Warsaw, and they needed to prepare another assualt and that takes time.

Also, what is it with the Poles invading Russia everytime Russia has a revolution, 1604-1615, 1918-1921. And of course in response Russia partioned Poland, also twice. However due to the presence of Pope John Paul the II and Russian Patriarch Alexius II the relations have improved. Of course should Poles build a NATO base, they will detiriorate again, especially so soon after Kosovo, which already has US-Russian relations at their lowest point. Hmm, maybe if Americans stopped bombing cities....

Umm, about the power of propaganda I got two words that will obliterate your entire argument: North Korea.

You see the world as a bigger verion of North Korea? That'd explain a lot. But seriously, there is no comparison between a closed environment where everybody is for generations subjected to unrelenting stream of lies and threatened with death if he doesn't follow the party line and the outside world where we have this thing called freedom.

since you are all bitching about Russia not having an independent media, can you name me an American network that's not controlled by a corporation?
And who says I am bound to listening to networks? Even you admit below that independent media outlets exist even in Russia. And the conspiracy theory that all the media corporations are controlled by an evil mastermint* is just that - a conspiracy theory without any factual proof.

And you're one of those bitter Jewish Berezovski people aren't you?
Hey, at least leave me an excuse of being uninformed before you expose me as Jewish agent as I did for you when I suggested you might be on Putin's payroll! It's only fair. ;)

As per Russian Independent media, it exists on the Internet, that's largely unregulated by the Kremlin; and this Independent media produced this video
You know, using a single website written mostly from the Western perspective as a fig leaf for all the Russian media is rather telling. Where are Russian independent - not entirely independent, this is hard to achieve, but independent from the governemnt - newspapers, radio and TV stations?

*After making this typo I can't stop wondering - does every pack of mints have its evil mastermint?
PS NSG and pancakes don't mix well :( Burn, baby, burn!

You see the world as a bigger verion of North Korea? That'd explain a lot. But seriously, there is no comparison between a closed environment where everybody is for generations subjected to unrelenting stream of lies and threatened with death if he doesn't follow the party line and the outside world where we have this thing called freedom.


And who says I am bound to listening to networks? Even you admit below that independent media outlets exist even in Russia. And the conspiracy theory that all the media corporations are controlled by an evil mastermint* is just that - a conspiracy theory without any factual proof.


Hey, at least leave me an excuse of being uninformed before you expose me as Jewish agent as I did for you when I suggested you might be on Putin's payroll! It's only fair. ;)


You know, using a single website written mostly from the Western perspective as a fig leaf for all the Russian media is rather telling. Where are Russian independent - not entirely independent, this is hard to achieve, but independent from the governemnt - newspapers, radio and TV stations?



No I don't see the World as a bigger version of North Korea, but thank you for putting words in my mouth in your epicly failed attempt to make me look like an idiot. Most civilized nations in the World have internet access, (Russia amongst them,) North Korea - NO. Every country's different, that's why a Democratic System that works for one country, may not work for another. And yeah, we have this thing called freedom; umm, how quickly did corporate media shoot down Michael Moore's movie, Sicko? How many lies did they have to tell to the American people to do it? How much money did they spend discrediting the movie they didn't even see to please their corporate bosses? And Sicko's just one example - others include Iraq (the initial stages, where the mass-media either supported it or was largely neutral), Kosovo, that will, mark my words, by our next Iraq and Vietnam #III, some nations are tough learners. Case in point: we have freedom of speech, but the corporations know how to use that to brainwash the voter. Watch Idiocracy, and read between the lines.

And you may not listen to networks, but a lot of people do and believe in networks. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6W3T7MTh4M And if you add failing schools, you can see how easy it is to brainwash the uneducated.

Once again, I'm a Californian Investor into Russia. Yes, I'm glad Putin made Sochi such a profitable investment and I'm glad that he stabilized the country and pacified the Caucasian region and is giving Russia a better middle class. That's about it for my stance on Putin. There are things he does I don't support, just like any other leader.

Hmm, Berezovski fan, right? You know that him and his cronies want to stage a revolution in Russia. First off, I think staging a revolution in a country that has nukes is sheer stupidity. But then again Berezovksy and intelligence don't go hand in hand. Secondly most Russians don't want another revolution. And most people in Other Russia are paid to be there, kinda like the Coalition of the Willing. Sounds sooo familiar, now be a good boii and watch the video I posted, ok?

RUSSIA IS THE EVIL!!!:headbang:

((Clarifying to those who take my posts in such an anal way: I'M JOKIN', Y'ALL!!))

Russia is to pretty to be evil.

No I don't see the World as a bigger version of North Korea, but thank you for putting words in my mouth
The initial comment was made in jest, I thought I made it clear by beginning the next sequence with "But seriously". Judging from the rest of your post you seem to agree with me that we can't really compare the North Korea to the rest of the world. So effectiveness of propaganda there cannot be taken as a proof of its effectiveness elsewhere.

Every country's different, that's why a Democratic System that works for one country, may not work for another.
That's why they have different democratic systems. If you mean that democracy isn't the best ultimate solution for every country, it's not something I'm willing to debate.

And yeah, we have this thing called freedom; umm, how quickly did corporate media shoot down Michael Moore's movie, Sicko? [...] Case in point: we have freedom of speech, but the corporations know how to use that to brainwash the voter. Watch Idiocracy, and read between the lines.
Moore made somewhere in the vicinity of $15M on that movie, quite a lot for a "shot down" enterprise. The gullibility of voters is the major deficiency of every form of democracy since forever, and I suppose you heard the famous quote of Churchill. But making the conclusion that just because they are imperfect, democracy and freedom of speech are overrated and can't be taken into consideration when judging a regime is something I will never agree with. Or am I again putting words into you mouth? If so, you must state your intentions more clearly.

And you may not listen to networks, but a lot of people do and believe in networks. [...] And if you add failing schools, you can see how easy it is to brainwash the uneducated.
Let me ask you this. We have country A, where the press, radio and television are controlled by various large and small corporations and even the average John Doe can start publishing if he puts his mind to it. We have also country B, where virtually all the press, radio and TV stations are either directly or indirectly controlled by the governemnt and the average John Doe who tries to publish a newspaper finds out that nobody wants to distribute it and the fire inspection closes his printing shop indefinitely.
Pray tell me, in which country is it easier to brainwash the masses?
Once again, I'm a Californian Investor into Russia. Yes, I'm glad Putin made Sochi such a profitable investment and I'm glad that he stabilized the country and pacified the Caucasian region and is giving Russia a better middle class. That's about it for my stance on Putin. There are things he does I don't support, just like any other leader.
It'd be all too easy to Godwin this thread at that spot. But I'll just say that I hope that after stabilizing the country (mostly done), building a healthy economy (long way to go) and a real middle class (not much done so far, this is not just about the money) Putin will release the democratic institutions of the country from his grip and lets the people decide what's best for them.
But I'm not holding my breath.

The initial comment was made in jest, I thought I made it clear by beginning the next sequence with "But seriously". Judging from the rest of your post you seem to agree with me that we can't really compare the North Korea to the rest of the world. So effectiveness of propaganda there cannot be taken as a proof of its effectiveness elsewhere.


That's why they have different democratic systems. If you mean that democracy isn't the best ultimate solution for every country, it's not something I'm willing to debate.


Moore made somewhere in the vicinity of $15M on that movie, quite a lot for a "shot down" enterprise. The gullibility of voters is the major deficiency of every form of democracy since forever, and I suppose you heard the famous quote of Churchill. But making the conclusion that just because they are imperfect, democracy and freedom of speech are overrated and can't be taken into consideration when judging a regime is something I will never agree with. Or am I again putting words into you mouth? If so, you must state your intentions more clearly.


Let me ask you this. We have country A, where the press, radio and television are controlled by various large and small corporations and even the average John Doe can start publishing if he puts his mind to it. We have also country B, where virtually all the press, radio and TV stations are either directly or indirectly controlled by the governemnt and the average John Doe who tries to publish a newspaper finds out that nobody wants to distribute it and the fire inspection closes his printing shop indefinitely.
Pray tell me, in which country is it easier to brainwash the masses?

It'd be all too easy to Godwin this thread at that spot. But I'll just say that I hope that after stabilizing the country (mostly done), building a healthy economy (long way to go) and a real middle class (not much done so far, this is not just about the money) Putin will release the democratic institutions of the country from his grip and lets the people decide what's best for them.
But I'm not holding my breath.

What type of Democracy would be the best? Direct Democracy? Representative Democracy? Constitutional Monarchy? Populist Democracy? There are so many damn types of Democracy, that we don't know which one is the best.

Now as per your example of country A and country B; in country A and country B every voted has access to the Internet. And furthermore neither country can regulate the Internet. So if John Doe wants to truly publish an article, he can use the Internet, and the voters can read it. Sure he won't make money off of it, but if he's truly dedicated to the ideals of Democracy, not just something to make a quick profit of, he would have no problem. Russia doesn't regulate the Interent, and the sites that the Kremlin does shut down are either racist or a direct call for violence. For instance if you have a site with the URL of www.kremlincritiques.ru, you're fine. If your website if www.russophobe.ru or www.fuckrussians.ru, or www.gonazis.ru, generally it will be shut down and rightfully so. Democracy doesn't mean freedom of the Nazis to march through Jewish neighborhoods.

Also, you have no clue what stability means, do you? Let me quote you to prove that: "after stabilizing the country (mostly done), building a healthy economy (long way to go) and a real middle class (not much done so far, this is not just about the money)". Umm, see you can't really have a strong stable country without a middle class. It's been tried, failed everytime. So Putin can't mostly stabilize the country, while at the same time not do much for the middle class; it's virtually impossible, it's a paradox! The same goes for the economy: Russia is stable, BECAUSE it has a healthy economy; in order to stabilize Russia, you need a healthy economy and a strong middle class; so either Russia is unstable and therefore weak and shouldn't be feared, or Russia is stable and has a flourishing middle class and a strong economy. Pick one or the other, you can't have it both ways.

Now as per your example of country A and country B; in country A and country B every voted has access to the Internet.
There are virtually no countries (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2153rank.html) where every voter has access to the internet, in case of Russia it's 26 out of roughly 110 million voters (2006 data). But even if every single Chukcha hunter had satellite internet, you can't seriously claim that it's enough to counterweight the government controlled traditional media praising one candidate in unison. Especially if the government can shut down the access (http://www.exile.ru/blog/detail.php?BLOG_ID=17285) to the sites of its choosing making it look like some kind of technical problem.

Also, you have no clue what stability means, do you?
Apparently. I thought it meant "not likely to fall", now I learn that it also should encompass a whole lot more. Go figure. :rolleyes:
I'm happy though that all the brutal dictatorships of the world that can't show a strong middle class and healthy economy as a proof of ther stability are on a verge of collapse from that moment on. Because you said so.

They are there to protect the innocent citizens and the valued international tourists from the crime which doesn't exit in Russia because all the criminals are in the so called "democratic" opposition which doesn't exist.
So they are there just so you feel safe and remember what's good for you, comr... I mean citizen.

Actually it was because of Chechen bombings... But nice try

There are virtually no countries (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2153rank.html) where every voter has access to the internet, in case of Russia it's 26 out of roughly 110 million voters (2006 data). But even if every single Chukcha hunter had satellite internet, you can't seriously claim that it's enough to counterweight the government controlled traditional media praising one candidate in unison. Especially if the government can shut down the access (http://www.exile.ru/blog/detail.php?BLOG_ID=17285) to the sites of its choosing making it look like some kind of technical problem.

The problem is not the availability information but the willingness to access it.
Those who wanted did get their copyes of the Samizdati (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samizdat), those who didn't want them didn't.

The problem is not the availability information but the willingness to access it.
Those who wanted did get their copyes of the Samizdati (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samizdat), those who didn't want them didn't.
And how many wanted? This is a rhetorical question, mind you. Unfortunately most of the people are happy with the "generally accepted truth". When the government controls the media people tend to believe the official version of the reality until said reality doesn't differ too obviously from the propaganda.

Actually it was because of Chechen bombings...
What Chechen bombings?

Actually I had this one in mind

http://www.russiablog.org/2007/08/terrorists_bomb_moscowst_peter.php

No, I asked because Velka Morava's mother was in Moscow in October last year and I thought I missed something.

You did miss... I posted the link but it got timewarped to the previous page.
I post it again: http://www.russiablog.org/2007/08/terrorists_bomb_moscowst_peter.php
BBC linky: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6945261.stm

What Chechen bombings?

Uh, this sarcasm?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chechen_suicide_attacks

Uh, this sarcasm?
No, I asked because Velka Morava's mother was in Moscow in October last year and I thought I missed something.

You did miss... I posted the link but it got timewarped to the previous page.
It's good that noone was killed, but that's sad anyway :(.

No, I asked because Velka Morava's mother was in Moscow in October last year and I thought I missed something.

Ah, I see what you mean there.

More terrorist bombings in Russia last year:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/015439.php
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20071030/85894560.html
http://voanews.com/english/archive/2007-10/2007-10-31-voa18.cfm?CFID=270713813&CFTOKEN=66687353


Google is my friend ;)
Er... I was using Live search!
BTW this is just on the first page of the following query
http://search.live.com/results.aspx?q=Bombing+moscow+2007&form=QBRE

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/015439.php
Wow. That makes me know the relationship between USSR and the Islamist group... Thx very much, comrade!

This definitely proves Russia is the Mother of all Evil!:D

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htiw/articles/20080204.aspx
http://media.www.isubengal.com/media/storage/paper275/news/2004/03/31/Opinion/Putins.Russia.evil.Empire.Strikes.Back-645794.shtml

Hohoho! The Russians are cool! So, America, your archrival has her own weapon too! I should tell my (Soviestists) friend!

What Chechen bombings?

Well it's ovbious now that you have lost all credibility in reference to Russia. You don't know any Modern Russian history, do you? I just Googled Chechen Bombings in Russia:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=chechen+bombing+in+Russia

The free Chechen Republic of Ichkeria believes that their people (who are overwhemingly in favor of ending the war after 15 years of conflict and they no longer care who wins) are brutally oppressed by Russian. The women are forced to go to schools and learn. Oppression!!!!! So in their pathetic attempts to still prove to some dumb ass that they have any power left, they bomb Russian civillians, because they are too chickenshit to go against the Russian army. On February 2005, Putin won the Second Chechen War and kicked out the Chechen terrorists. The Chechen people love Putin, solely because he brought them peace after 15 years of war. But a certain power-hungry clique is doing their best to start a new insurrection. Since they have no population support, they are likely to get wiped out. But you gotta at least know the basics of the Caucasus, before you can comment on Russia, and you, with that question, have lost all credibility.

Well it's ovbious now that you have lost all credibility in reference to Russia.
Please read to the end of the thread instead of jumping to conclusion. You are not helping your image as a good debater this way.

The free Chechen Republic of Ichkeria believes that their people (who are overwhemingly in favor of ending the war after 15 years of conflict and they no longer care who wins)
Yeah, after 15 years of Russian shellings and pacification tactics they no longer care.
are brutally oppressed by Russian. The women are forced to go to schools and learn. Oppression!!!!!
Or bullied by that Putin's crony (Ramzan Kadiroff's his name?) and his gang that currently rules there.
The Chechen people love Putin, solely because he brought them peace after 15 years of war.
Wouldn't be so hasty in declaring they love him.
But you gotta at least know the basics of the Caucasus, before you can comment on Russia, and you, with that question, have lost all credibility.
And you know all there is to be known about Chechnya, I guess?

I like this video, and I like the song they use for the evil parts. "Die eir von Satan" by tool.

I'm sorry, but your assessment is too complicated for Norththerners, Midwesterners, West Coasterns so on.. to understand.

Fixed by someone who actually understands Florida after having lived there and still living there for too damn long.

Only native Floridians will get the joke below and not find it funny.

The Invasion never ends. (http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2007/08/05/162-the-united-states-of-florida/)

Correct. The liberals are the one who want to eat your babies.

Their ideas can only be maintained when they eat innocent human flesh. And by giving other people's money away.

Fixed by someone who actually understands Florida after having lived there and still living there for too damn long.Wait, what's this in front of me? A ballot? How do I vote for somebody? Do I have to punch it all the way through? Why does it say Pat Buchanan next to Al Gore's hole?

Only native Floridians will get the joke below and not find it funny.

The Invasion never ends. (http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2007/08/05/162-the-united-states-of-florida/)I'm not from Florida, so I don't get it. Why are places in Florida marked as other places? I have no clue what that could possibly mean... Ouch, my brain!

Actually, here's my interpretation of the picture - it's like America's appendix, collecting all the people too old and stupid for the nation to digest properly wherever they came from, so they just stick in Florida until it gives America appendicitis like in 2000 and 2004. We should just cut if off.

What is this world coming to....:(

A Russian thread without the reversal.

What is this world coming to....:(

A Russian thread without the reversal.
In Russia, thread reverses you????

In Soviet Russia, spam posts you.

Please read to the end of the thread instead of jumping to conclusion. You are not helping your image as a good debater this way.

Actually that your points are invalidated by your lack of knowledge is what I was thinking when I said that you missed something.
Clearly you do not know about the political situation in Russia if you missed a couple of news about something so irrelevant as terrorist bombings.
If you want to competently speak about something you have to be informed about it, else you are just ranting.

Actually that your points are invalidated by your lack of knowledge is what I was thinking when I said that you missed something. Clearly you do not know about the political situation in Russia if you missed a couple of news about something so irrelevant as terrorist bombings.
I didn't hear about the train bombing and I was surprised to read about "bombings" in October. The other links you did post are either about incidents after that date (and not in Moscow) or prevented attacks. But feel free to dismiss my points on that or any other basis if it makes you feel better.

I was just surprised to read about "bombings" in October. The links you did post are either about incidents after that date (and not in Moscow) or prevented attacks. But feel free to dismiss my points on that or any other basis if it makes you feel better.

Actually:

The Moscow - St. Petersburg bombing was in august, only two months before my mother's trip. And the Togliatti bombing was the 31 of october.
The fact that they didn't happen in Moscow doesn't mean that the increased security measures enacted because of fear of other attacks wouldn't be applyed to the whole country, and expecially in it's main city.
Prevented attacks do count for increased security, or not? As in "we put more cops in the streets so we will catch those people".
You'd expect increased police presence on the streets and more strict border control when you are under a terrorist attack. US are doing the same, no?
I put only the first relevant results of the search query I posted.

I would have accepted that you disputed the Chechen trail wich is arguable (altough I was reporting what my mother had been told, not actual facts), not the timeline.

...and Stalin and Nixon were TWICE - just shows that Time is run by idiots.

Person of the Year =/= best person

Person of the Year is simply whomever was the most newsworthy that year, whether that person is a saint or a monster.

The Moscow - St. Petersburg bombing was in august, only two months before my mother's trip.
That was the one I missed. I was editing my post at the same time you responded, sorry for that.
And the Togliatti bombing was the 31 of october.
It's hard to explain massive police presence in October by bombing that took place on 31 October.
Prevented attacks do count for increased security, or not? As in "we put more cops in the streets so we will catch those people".
Yes, although there is hardly a month passing without a threat of bombing, irrelevant if it is real or not.
I would have accepted that you disputed the Chechen trail wich is arguable (altough I was reporting what my mother had been told, not actual facts), not the timeline.
I did not question it, because the real identity of the perpetrators is irrelevant to the subject at hand. And the train bombing does indeed explain the increased security.

It's hard to explain massive police presence in October by bombing that took place on 31 October.

Yes, although there is hardly a month passing without a threat of bombing, irrelevant if it is real or not.

You really cannot see a link between the reaction to a percieved threat and the threat actually happening?
Do you really think security measures are taken only after an attack?
Do you really think security threats are not assessed for potential truthfullness and risk?
Or are you being just intellectually dishonest?

I don't like the direction you are trying to push me. Stop making unbased claims about my intentions and we might talk in the future.

Funny thing - on the exile.ru page there's an article titled Russian Academia Under Fire about the closing of Western-friendly academy after surprise fire inspection:

What's funny about it? I dare you to find it in the russian version of the newspaper. Apparently you can rant about unfair Putin administration until you're blue in the face, as long as you do it in English.

It looks that it takes about 2 weeks before Sean Guillory's articles are translated to russian. Since the article you quoted was issued the 6th of march 2008 my guess is that we might see it around the 20th of march 2008.
You can check yourself:
http://www.exile.ru/authors/detail.php?ID=15688
http://www.exile.ru/russian/authors/detail.php?ID=15688

One thing is funny though, in the russian version of the articles Putin is depicted without crown.

http://blogs.chron.com/nickanderson/archives/and060307color.jpg

I don't like the direction you are trying to push me. Stop making unbased claims about my intentions and we might talk in the future.

Ahem, I'm not trying to push you anywhere, and I didn't make any claims about your intentions either.
I'm really curious if you see the link between an increase in security before an accident. Or if you are being intellectually dishonest just for the sake of debate. Nothing wrong with that until you start trolling, I actually like to play devil's advocate in real life discussion.

Intellectual dishonesty is the advocacy of a position which the advocate knows or believes to be false. Rhetoric is used to advance an agenda or to reinforce one's deeply held beliefs in the face of overwhelming contrary evidence

I'm sorry if I offended you, I really didn't mean to. But if you wish to ignore my posts feel free to do so.

:fluffle:
Dang, I can feel the love in this thread.
:fluffle:

Dang, I can feel the love in this thread.

:fluffle:

:fluffle:

Let us all give Russia a big BIG :fluffle:!!

Ahem, I'm not trying to push you anywhere, and I didn't make any claims about your intentions either.
That's how it felt. Because all I asked you for was information. Yes, in hindsight, doing so by asking "What Chechen bombings?" instead of "Could you provide me with information about the incident that led to the increase in security?" was... unfortunate, because it led to me feeling pushed into the defence of position that I do not intend to take.
The threat of Chechen terrorism is a real one and it'd be stupid to argue otherwise, no matter what opinion one might hold of its origins and means that have to be taken to end it.

Ahem, OK, but let's be careful with that.
http://pbfcomics.com/archive_b/PBF115-Hug_Bot.jpg

LMAO!

Let us all give Russia a big BIG :fluffle:!!
Ahem, OK, but let's be careful with that.
http://pbfcomics.com/archive_b/PBF115-Hug_Bot.jpg