NationStates Jolt Archive

Is this a good idea?

BBC NEWS LINK (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7280495.stm)

The National Identity Register, which will contain dozens of personal details of every adult in this country in one place, will be a severe threat to our security and a real target for criminals, hackers and terrorists.

"This is before you take the government's legendary inability to handle people's data securely into account."

Phil Booth, of campaign group NO2ID dismissed Ms Smith's latest announcement as a "marketing exercise" designed to introduce ID cards by stealth.

"Whether you volunteer or are coerced onto the ID database, there's no way back. You'll be monitored for life. That's why the government is targeting students and young people, to get them on before they realise what's happening," he said.

Former Home Secretary David Blunkett, who introduced the initial identity card scheme, has previously said it would not work unless everyone had to have a card.

The UK's main aviation trade union, Unite, has also criticised the plans, which it said could discriminate against some of its members who already have to undergo "vigorous pre-employment checks".

and the timetable in UK is:
2008 - Some non-EU nationals will have to get them
2009 - Compulsory for 200,000 UK citizens and EU nationals who work in 'sensitive' airport jobs
2010 - Voluntary scheme for students
2011/12 - Biometric passports issued, applicants can choose to get ID card
2017 - Full roll-out of identity cards

However this source (Times online) (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article551407.ece)says;
2005: Identity Card Bill published; Sets up National Identity Register containing details of everyone over 16 Register contains individual’s date and place of birth, address, previous residences, gender, full name and identifying characteristics People will register at 70 offices around the UK By about 2013, some 80 per cent of population will have a card Parliament then to decide if it should be compulsory for everyone to have one Public support has fallen from 79 per cent to 45 per cent in two years


2017 is the date for roll out of identity cards, and it should also be noted that.

A home office spokesman said the government charged for other forms of ID such as driving licences and passports and it though the planned charge of £30 for an ID card was "fair".
£30 per card, with a government that lost oh how much data was it again?
According the Telegraph (link) (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/01/06/ndata106.xml) it was,
A record 37 million items of personal data went missing last year, new research reveals.
Most of the data was lost by government officials but councils, NHS trusts, banks, insurance companies and chain stores also mislaid or published personal information about staff or members of the public.
The government with personal ID cards by 2017, how much information will be lost and handed over to fraudsters? The implications of increased control over the people in the UK good or bad?

Maybe this is a negative way to describe ID cards to lets look at the benefits (source times online). (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article551407.ece)
Mr McNulty said that the identity card scheme would help to tackle some of the problems but not overcome them. “It will help where fraud and abuse of identity is part of the equation. It will help in the development of some, but not all, strategies to combat identity fraud, serious crime and terrorism,” he said.

So ID cards will reduce serious crime, identity fraud and terrorism.
The price of establishing this idea, tracking the whole population, and previous amounts of public information lost will the benefits outweigh the cost?
This would mean people born after 2017 in UK will be born with an identity that the government can track for life.

so the government is going to identify millions of high risk folk (who would no doubt include most of NS lets be honest) and presumably somehow keep an eye on them all...

yeah I don't want my wanking schedule being available for everyone, especially when its not going to do much apart from get Muslims heads kicked in by police when they plan on doing some gardening

edit: of course the government has the right idea about how to go about doing it, kids these days are desperate for some sort of ID (see: provisional licenses) and will willing hand over credit card details for such

2017? Jeez! By then, you'll have the technology to have RFID chips implanted into everybody thus allowing realtime tracking of everyone's movements.

You have to stay on the cutting edge, UK if you mean to squash that pesky privacy shit. *nod*

2017? Jeez! By then, you'll have the technology to have RFID chips implanted into everybody thus allowing realtime tracking of everyone's movements.

who's talking about everyone, this is just a big misunderstanding and the government really want all those we believe in I.D to carry special cards

its all due to bouncers not finding it very funny when after asking for ID you show them a nipple :)

so the government is going to identify millions of high risk folk (who would no doubt include most of NS lets be honest) and presumably somehow keep an eye on them all...

yeah I don't want my wanking schedule being available for everyone, especially when its not going to do much apart from get Muslims heads kicked in by police when they plan on doing some gardening

edit: of course the government has the right idea about how to go about doing it, kids these days are desperate for some sort of ID (see: provisional licenses) and will willing hand over credit card details for such

high risk? me? what about other folks here like Gravlen and Straughan they aren't high risk are they?
you have a schedule for wanking, well that's well organised i suppose, i can picture you with a clipboard going "yup me done for today".:)
Do you see an alternative to ID cards? i don't know, mass immigration of all criminals to the US or something?
2017? Jeez! By then, you'll have the technology to have RFID chips implanted into everybody thus allowing realtime tracking of everyone's movements.

You have to stay on the cutting edge, UK if you mean to squash that pesky privacy shit. *nod*
Ahhh no one's going to trace me, never never. privacy is something i enjoy, not for random strangers to enjoy (other than the internet).

Your private information is already spread around by a lot of commercial interests. The government can hardly do worse, and it would make the government's job of controlling you that much easier.

You went for the speed cameras everywhere, and the CCTV everywhere, and the members of your council can vote that your kids are anti-social and you can't do anything about it.

The UK police can arrest you and hold you literally without charge while investigating your for "terror".

What are you complaining about? Don't you have a government that was elected by free and fair elections?

Your private information is already spread around by a lot of commercial interests. The government can hardly do worse, and it would make the government's job of controlling you that much easier.

You went for the speed cameras everywhere, and the CCTV everywhere, and the members of your council can vote that your kids are anti-social and you can't do anything about it.

The UK police can arrest you and hold you literally without charge while investigating your for "terror".

What are you complaining about? Don't you have a government that was elected by free and fair elections?

I don't recall wanting speed cameras, or CCTV.
Yeah i don't like the terror charge thing at all.
I don't think fair or free belong in the same sentence as government.

high risk? me? what about other folks here like Gravlen and Straughan they aren't high risk are they?

Smith: what use is a phone call when you don't have a mouth with which to speak?

me: *makes thread on NSG*

Smith: so there is no possible way to win the game?

you have a schedule for wanking, well that's well organised i suppose, i can picture you with a clipboard going "yup me done for today".:)

brutal organization gets me every time ;)

Do you see an alternative to ID cards? i don't know, mass immigration of all criminals to the US or something?

people who carry backpacks using only one strap being shot on sight

I don't recall wanting speed cameras, or CCTV.
Yeah i don't like the terror charge thing at all.
I don't think fair or free belong in the same sentence as government.

I believe the UK people got exactly what they asked for. Perhaps you're in a minority.

Don't worry! Those dirty foreigners will be the first to get them. :rolleyes:
http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-03-06-voa35.cfm

EDIT: Didn't notice that's covered in the first link...

Smith: what use is a phone call when you don't have a mouth with which to speak?
me: *makes thread on NSG*
Smith: so there is no possible way to win the game?
brutal organization gets me every time ;)
people who carry backpacks using only one strap being shot on sight

lolz ah matrix, perhaps that would explain this world.

I believe the UK people got exactly what they asked for. Perhaps you're in a minority.
I don't think we did, a government that leads us through 3 wars, and makes laws about "terror" should look at it's own past record and realise it too would have to be held for terror allegations.

Ah minority, perhaps.

Don't worry! Those dirty foreigners will be the first to get them. :rolleyes:
http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-03-06-voa35.cfm

EDIT: Didn't notice that's covered in the first link...

Ah yes dirty foreigners, because that isn't discrimination at all.
The ID card plan is estimated to cost more than $10 billion during the next decade.
that part caught my eye.
I wonder what $10 billion looks like, oh yeah it looks like lots of ID cards.

Smith: so there is no possible way to win the game?


http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/anti_mind_virus.png

From http://xkcd.com of course.

You went for the speed cameras everywhere, and the CCTV everywhere, and the members of your council can vote that your kids are anti-social and you can't do anything about it.

being out and about in a public area ≠ privacy invasion

driving on a public road ≠ privacy invasion

I believe the UK people got exactly what they asked for. Perhaps you're in a minority.

not really hence why its a big scandal now that the newspapers have allegedly foiled the government plot

As a bastion of freedom America welcomes UKians with open arms.

As for ID cards, I don't need one. I already know who I am; I don't need the government to tell me.

yeah but does the government know who you are? maybe they want to be myspace friends?

yeah but does the government know who you are? maybe they want to be myspace friends?

"hey look who's my new favourite foriegn secretary!"
"Wow you are soo cool man, i wish i had a first minister, all i got is Jack Straw".
That would be hilarious.
A new documentry is released, politicians will try to make friends with the local population. (I can picture a dead ringers version of this, i wonder if they still make any shows?)

As a bastion of freedom America welcomes UKians with open arms.
yay!
I'm off to America!
(which part is the best part?)

the members of your council can vote that your kids are anti-social and you can't do anything about it.

I'll go at them with my super ray gun. Or ignore them. Why the council would be 'voting' on the social acceptance of my children is beyond me, and why you think I'd care is also somewhat puzzling.

As for ID cards, I don't need one. I already know who I am; I don't need the government to tell me.

yay!
I'm off to America!
(which part is the best part?)

The Canadian part. :p

It would probably lose the friends list by leaving a laptop somewhere.

:p (i actually laughed at this)
That's why they have internet cafe's, to feel intelligent. Let's hope they don't put their favourites on a disk.

As a bastion of freedom America welcomes UKians with open arms.

I get ID'd for what is surely the most basic of freedoms, the ability to buy beer. That never happened in the UK. Stay strong Brits!

yeah but does the government know who you are? maybe they want to be myspace friends?

It would probably lose the friends list by leaving a laptop somewhere.

I get ID'd for what is surely the most basic of freedoms, the ability to buy beer. That never happened in the UK. Stay strong Brits!

true, they want their few members of voting public to be drunk before they vote, to ignore all the massive problems they have.

its all due to bouncers not finding it very funny when after asking for ID you show them a nipple :)
Better a nipple than trying to engage a bouncer in a drunken "debate" on the merits of evolution vs ID. I kid you not (note: this, perhaps unfortunately, wasn't me).

Your private information is already spread around by a lot of commercial interests. The government can hardly do worse, and it would make the government's job of controlling you that much easier.
You know who's going to be complaining about ID cards in ten years? People in their late 20s/early 30s who are currently putting every single scrap of information about their life on their public profiles on Facebook.

What are you complaining about? Don't you have a government that was elected by free and fair elections?
Well, technically. What we actually have is a government that managed to win 55% of the seats in Parliament after 22% of the electorate voted for them.

If I don't do a postgrad, I graduate just before the Government wants to push these on students. I would celebrate, but the Ministry of Love would probably have found a way to force them on everybody by then, as they doubtless intend.

Better a nipple than trying to engage a bouncer in a drunken "debate" on the merits of evolution vs ID. I kid you not (note: this, perhaps unfortunately, wasn't me).


You know who's going to be complaining about ID cards in ten years? People in their late 20s/early 30s who are currently putting every single scrap of information about their life on their public profiles on Facebook.

Well, technically. What we actually have is a government that managed to win 55% of the seats in Parliament after 22% of the electorate voted for them.

1 5th of my body voted for this government? what did the rest vote for?
I don't have a facebook fortunatly
That's shocking, is this a similar trend across the world or only in the UK?

That's shocking, is this a similar trend across the world or only in the UK?
It's entirely normal for countries that don't allocate seats in their legislature by proportional representation. We've had governments win a majority of seats in Parliament, and thus form the government, despite getting fewer votes than the opposition.

It's entirely normal for countries that don't allocate seats in their legislature by proportional representation. We've had governments win a majority of seats in Parliament, and thus form the government, despite getting fewer votes than the opposition.

is this something to do with avoiding coalition governments?
Doesn't sound very democratic to me.

1 5th of my body voted for this government? what did the rest vote for?
Well...nearly 40% (that'd be the torso) didn't bother voting, probably through general apathy. About 20% (the legs) voted Tory, 13.5% (arms) voted Lib Dem and 20% of the remainder (feet) voted UKIP.

Though I guess that means your head voted Labour.

Shome mishtake, shurely? :p


Interesting fact about the last election: I live in the only constituency that Labour won control of from another party. How shit is that?

Well...nearly 40% (that'd be the torso) didn't bother voting, probably through general apathy. About 20% (the legs) voted Tory, 13.5% (arms) voted Lib Dem and 20% of the remainder (feet) voted UKIP.

Though I guess that means your head voted Labour.

Shome mishtake, shurely? :p


Interesting fact about the last election: I live in the only constituency that Labour won control of from another party. How shit is that?

You should have told your legs to start voting for who you wanted to vote for, which is whatever your head votes for. (my these puns are hurting my head now)

You went for the speed cameras everywhere, and the CCTV everywhere, and the members of your council can vote that your kids are anti-social and you can't do anything about it.


so what does it mean if they vote that your kid is anti-social?

is this something to do with avoiding coalition governments?
Doesn't sound very democratic to me.
It's one of the arguments put forth against proportional representation.

Rolling squid;13506741']so what does it mean if they vote that your kid is anti-social?

http://www.charnwood.gov.uk/safety/anti-socialbehaviour.html

This is a perfect example.

Anti-Social Behaviour Order

An Anti-Social Behaviour Order (ASBO's) can be made under the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 against a person aged 10 or over in any housing tenure i.e. owner-occupiers, private and public sector tenants. It is intended to tackle both behaviour, which is likely to escalate to the criminal level, and patterns of behaviour which cumulatively cause alarm or distress to the community but which do not consist of single acts which are sufficiently serious or sufficiently clear-cut to be prosecuted individually as criminal offences. The behaviour is not restricted to housing situations. The terms of an Anti-Social Behaviour Order can only be prohibitory, and only those necessary to protect people in the area from further anti-social behaviour. Under the Police Reform Act 2002, it is also possible to apply for an ASBO to be made at the same time as sentencing and attached following post criminal convictions. The Anti-Social Behaviour Bill 2003, will also enable ASBO's to be served to relatives and friends of someone subject to proceedings in the County Court where it is deemed appropriate.

The ASBO follows your kid (and you) for the rest of your life as a permanent record.

http://www.charnwood.gov.uk/safety/anti-socialbehaviour.html

This is a perfect example.



The ASBO follows your kid (and you) for the rest of your life as a permanent record.

And this is unjust how?

OP: I find the proposal rather pointless and a waste of money. Civil liberties have already been eroded enough under this current Labour government.

And this is unjust how?

OP: I find the proposal rather pointless and a waste of money. Civil liberties have already been eroded enough under this current Labour government.

It's not a court. You can just be on the bad side of a few airheads on the council, and you'll get an ASBO. It's crap.

http://www.charnwood.gov.uk/safety/anti-socialbehaviour.html

This is a perfect example.



The ASBO follows your kid (and you) for the rest of your life as a permanent record.

so it's simply a couple of people voting that your kid is anti-social, without getting to defend yourself, without trial, heck, do they even have to tell you it's being debated?

They really are starting from the bottom up by indoctrinating younger people with the "need" for IDs. It's scary stuff.

It's not a court. You can just be on the bad side of a few airheads on the council, and you'll get an ASBO. It's crap.
ASBOs are issued by a magistrates court.

Sometimes I wonder if Britons ever ask why the US (and other colonies) ever declared independence. Wasn't George Orwell British? Maybe they consider 1984 to be an optimistic, utopian novel??

It's not a court. You can just be on the bad side of a few airheads on the council, and you'll get an ASBO. It's crap.

That's the second time you've said that, despite being corrected. They are issued by the courts, and the courts alone. This nonsense about 'airheads on the council' is exactly that, complete nonsense.

Meh. I'm pro-ID (they work perfectly here in Italy), but the british project seems strange to me.

1.Passport with biometric data -> ID . Why? Our ID have just name, date and place of birth, address, nationality, height, hair and eye colour, photo. There is not even the personal tax number (codice fiscale), or the blood group. Let alone fingerprints or DNA.

2.30 £ a fair price? Are they bananas? Here an ID costs 5,42 € (plus you have to provide 2 colour photos, that's 3 € at the automatic for 4 pics), and it's valid even as passport to EU countries and some non-EU countries (like Switzerland and Croatia).

Meh. I'm pro-ID (they work perfectly here in Italy), but the british project seems strange to me.

1.Passport with biometric data -> ID . Why? Our ID have just name, date and place of birth, address, nationality, height, hair and eye colour, photo. There is not even the personal tax number (codice fiscale), or the blood group. Let alone fingerprints or DNA.

2.30 £ a fair price? Are they bananas? Here an ID costs 5,42 € (plus you have to provide 2 colour photos, that's 3 € at the automatic for 4 pics), and it's valid even as passport to EU countries and some non-EU countries (like Switzerland and Croatia).

I may be paranoid but I suspect that the British project is being driven by the US agenda. I do wonder how they will square the kind of detailed personal information they want to collect with the Data Protection legislation. Are they planning to pass all our fingerprints and DNA to other countries? Also given their recent incompetence losing large amounts of data, I don't feel that happy about it all.

You know who's going to be complaining about ID cards in ten years? People in their late 20s/early 30s who are currently putting every single scrap of information about their life on their public profiles on Facebook.

Damn right I'll be complaining about ID cards. I don't want to fork out £30 for something that does what my passport does. I don't care about iris scans, fingerprints or any other crap they stick on the card. For what it's worth to me it shows I am who I say I am.

And, for the record, this Mybook and Facespace malarky isn't my thing, despite being in my early 20's and surrounded by friends who have them. I know better than to put every piece of information about myself online and, being honest, social networking is something I do offline through hobbies and friends more than online.

ID cards won't make us any safer or secure. They won't stop benefit fraud. ID cards won't prevent crime.

On the privacy aspect... it won't honestly make a blind bit of difference, except for information about me being lost, stolen or sold to spammers who really care about my apparently thinning hair.

But it will generate an awful lot of money for companies who are fairly well-renowned for screwing up public sector IT projects... EDS, Crapita (bane of my working life), DoLittle and Touchup, etc. And ministers will doubtlessly get cushy executive jobs with them when they leave their ministerial posts...

Meh. I'm pro-ID (they work perfectly here in Italy), but the british project seems strange to me.

1.Passport with biometric data -> ID . Why? Our ID have just name, date and place of birth, address, nationality, height, hair and eye colour, photo. There is not even the personal tax number (codice fiscale), or the blood group. Let alone fingerprints or DNA.

2.30 £ a fair price? Are they bananas? Here an ID costs 5,42 € (plus you have to provide 2 colour photos, that's 3 € at the automatic for 4 pics), and it's valid even as passport to EU countries and some non-EU countries (like Switzerland and Croatia).

That's the thing. The principle of ID cards is fine, it's the national database I have a real real problem with, the government does not need that much information about me. And unfortunatly that's the bit everyone's going to be on, even if they don't have an ID card, because you'll be on it if you get a passport too. It's all smoke and mirrors

Of course the fact that none of the opposition parties like it and the vast majority of the public is against it and they have been constantly backing further and further down on the policy lends me hope that they will scrap the scheme... or at least the database, before they get round to implementing it. Especially if, (as looks likely) Labour losing the next election.

That's the thing. The principle of ID cards is fine, it's the national database I have a real real problem with, the government does not need that much information about me. And unfortunatly that's the bit everyone's going to be on, even if they don't have an ID card, because you'll be on it if you get a passport too. It's all smoke and mirrors
Exactly - the point of ID cards is not the cards but the database behind it, which is exactly why the government is planning on accepting driving licences and biometric passports as substitutes while, no doubt, the cards themselves are brought in by stealth. The British proposed ID card system is no no way comparable to the ID card system used in countries on the continent.

Of course the fact that none of the opposition parties like it and the vast majority of the public is against it and they have been constantly backing further and further down on the policy lends me hope that they will scrap the scheme... or at least the database, before they get round to implementing it. Especially if, (as looks likely) Labour losing the next election.
I predict a Tory hung parliament.

I predict a Tory hung parliament.

Suddenly the Lib Dems will have a lot of barganing power as to who they form a coalition government with. Which given their generally sane policies in civil liberties, I can only consider to be a good thing.

Hey, we may even get proportional representation out of it.

To quote Maggie, "No no no!".

I'll despair if this actually comes to pass.

This is odd, i mean the majority of posts here say something like ID cards are bad, yet when i look at the poll there's 23% of posters voting for it, i'm aware of folks joking on it (but there is a joke option).
It seems so odd that the poll tells a different story from the thread.

Other than that, with most comments i see against ID cards, i think it's a safe assumption that they are genuinely not in the public interest.
As such if they were released and the public wanted no part in it, the government would not be able to force people to buy them.
I wonder if there is a reasonable way to introduce ID cards without all the downsides mentioned. hmmm

The ID cards we had in the War were good. They had all the basic details without a Central database. If we must have ID cards they shouldn't be anymore high tech than that.

Or You'll get this:

Person at Police Stations: I left my ID card on the bus.

Policeman: Right. You're fucked. You'll need new eyeballs and finger tips. That's at the Ministry of Shit Ideas on the High street.

The ID cards we had in the War were good. They had all the basic details without a Central database. If we must have ID cards they shouldn't be anymore high tech than that.

Or You'll get this:

Person at Police Stations: I left my ID card on the bus.

Policeman: Right. You're fucked. You'll need new eyeballs and finger tips. That's at the Ministry of Shit Ideas on the High street.

which war was this?

which war was this?

Second World War in Britain. The Censuses etc had all the details. There was no central database as far as I know. After all, why would London need to know about Mrs McLoner in her cottage outside Thurso?

They were simple, but they got us through 6 years of war with us rounding up spies like sheep.

Second World War in Britain. The Censuses etc had all the details. There was no central database as far as I know. After all, why would London need to know about Mrs McLoner in her cottage outside Thurso?

They were simple, but they got us through 6 years of war with us rounding up spies like sheep.

So you could say this current plan was brought about by a fear of terrorism, or a projected fear of terrorism. (By linking what you said about WW2 and now, the only link i can see is both have the UK at war).

I wonder if this spread fear of terrorism will last long? hmm a thread for another time perhaps.

So you could say this current plan was brought about by a fear of terrorism, or a projected fear of terrorism. (By linking what you said about WW2 and now, the only link i can see is both have the UK at war).

I wonder if this spread fear of terrorism will last long? hmm a thread for another time perhaps.

This plan has nothing to do with terrorists. It's about monitoring everyone using terrorism as a way of hiding further intrusion into lives.

If they wanted to stop terrorism, then they would only propose monitoring all Muslims etc, people whose groups actually pose a threat to the UK.

If this really does come into force then I'll give serious consideration to emigration, probably to Canada: I'm concerned enough by the current surveillance-culture and government attacks on liberty, but I draw the line at being asked to pay money for the privilege of losing my privacy and having personal information lost by incompetent civil servants.

If this really does come into force then I'll give serious consideration to emigration, probably to Canada: I'm concerned enough by the current surveillance-culture and government attacks on liberty, but I draw the line at being asked to pay money for the privilege of losing my privacy and having personal information lost by incompetent civil servants.

What if your information was secured by reliable civil servants?
anyone know of other countries that currently have ID cards?

Although the libertarian in me objects to the invasion of privacy that these cards represent, that’s not what most annoys me about this proposal; after all, I’m sure the government could easily collect any data on me if it really wanted to.

What I see the real problem as is the cost and general uselessness of the card. It’s not been proven to me in any way that the ID cards will be any sort of measure against fraud, terrorism, etc.

And you just know the cost will spiral...

Identity cards are a bad, bad idea.

being out and about in a public area ≠ privacy invasion
being stalked = privacy invasion

If I don't do a postgrad, I graduate just before the Government wants to push these on students. I would celebrate, but the Ministry of Love would probably have found a way to force them on everybody by then, as they doubtless intend.I wonder how long it will be before the country is renamed Oceania?

Is it just me or does this remind anyone else about what the nazis did in Germany?

anyone?

Is it just me or does this remind anyone else about what the nazis did in Germany?

anyone?

In what way?
Introducing ID cards?
You'd have to work at it a bit to find a way to link the two.

A bit of freedom gone from england.

I bit of freedom gone from england.

ID cards are being proposed for the whole of the UK, not just England.

They’re still only proposed. The government’s case is looking more and more shaky.

Hah! Good one! :p
They'd never be able to push this one through though, because the media (by which I mean the Daily Mail) would be up in arms about it (despite secretly backing it).
Come on, stay on topic here. This is about ID cards in the UK. ;)
Would not surprise me in the slightest if Labour suddenly publicly drop the whole ID card thing, and then an election is called a few months later...Labour get re-elected (possibly in a hung parliament), and then bring up ID cards again.

I've got a few queries. I would appreciate if you can answer them, if not i won't cry about it too much.
What do you mean by a hung parliament?
Do you really think Labour will be re-elected? if so why, or why not?

As for civil servants, well that's true enough, not sure if all UK civil servants are unreliable, and now they'l be having the whip cracking at them. (from recent losses of data and media attention).
Oh and who are these civil servants, where do they come from? I wonder how much they get paid.

Hey, we may even get proportional representation out of it.
Hah! Good one! :p

If they wanted to stop terrorism, then they would only propose monitoring all Muslims etc, people whose groups actually pose a threat to the UK.
They'd never be able to push this one through though, because the media (by which I mean the Daily Mail) would be up in arms about it (despite secretly backing it).

What if your information was secured by reliable civil servants?
Come on, stay on topic here. This is about ID cards in the UK. ;)

That's the thing. The principle of ID cards is fine, it's the national database I have a real real problem with, the government does not need that much information about me. And unfortunatly that's the bit everyone's going to be on, even if they don't have an ID card, because you'll be on it if you get a passport too. It's all smoke and mirrors

Of course the fact that none of the opposition parties like it and the vast majority of the public is against it and they have been constantly backing further and further down on the policy lends me hope that they will scrap the scheme... or at least the database, before they get round to implementing it. Especially if, (as looks likely) Labour losing the next election.
Would not surprise me in the slightest if Labour suddenly publicly drop the whole ID card thing, and then an election is called a few months later...Labour get re-elected (possibly in a hung parliament), and then bring up ID cards again.

I've got a few queries. I would appreciate if you can answer them, if not i won't cry about it too much.
What do you mean by a hung parliament?
Do you really think Labour will be re-elected? if so why, or why not?
A hung parliament is when no party has an outright majority (in the UK a party needs 324 seats for a majority - 646 total seats divided by two, plus one). In that case you'd usually end up with a coalition government - hence why the Lib Dems would then be in a strong position, as they'd probably have around 75-80 seats (they currently have 65, I think, and they'd probably have a few more if no party had a majority). If Labour won (say) 300 seats, then they'd likely form a coalition with the Lib Dems.

As for Labour getting re-elected, I really hope so, because the alternative is David Cameron. I'll admit I previously said I could see myself voting for him, around the time of the Tory leadership contest in 2005, but since then he's shown himself simply to be a traditional Tory with a fake green stripe running through him, who will apparently say anything to gain approval from the public. Also, he once said he wanted an end to the "Punch and Judy" style that has characterised politics in this country for the last few years, yet he now seems more than happy to continue it if it means he can score a few points (and therefore public approval) against Labour.

Oh and who are these civil servants, where do they come from? I wonder how much they get paid.
They probably get paid about 20% more than they would in the private sector for the job they do (which is basically admin work)...and they're just ordinary members of the public themselves, with no explicit political allegiance (ie. they're not replaced every time a new government is formed).

A hung parliament is when no party has an outright majority (in the UK a party needs 324 seats for a majority - 646 total seats divided by two, plus one). In that case you'd usually end up with a coalition government - hence why the Lib Dems would then be in a strong position, as they'd probably have around 75-80 seats (they currently have 65, I think, and they'd probably have a few more if no party had a majority). If Labour won (say) 300 seats, then they'd likely form a coalition with the Lib Dems.
I don't think they would be in a strong position at all, really. With our system, it's far more likely that any hung Parliament would result in a minority government struggling along for a few months, followed by another election. Just look at 1974.

As for Labour getting re-elected, I really hope so, because the alternative is David Cameron.
I'd rather none of them were elected, they're all as bad as each other. For every reason you can come up with not to vote for one party there will be another reason why not to vote for the alternative.

I for one welcome our computational overlords.