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Story (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7282269.stm)




Last Updated: Thursday, 6 March 2008, 19:31 GMT
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Eight killed at Jerusalem school
BBC breaking news graphic
At least eight people have been killed by gunmen who are reported to have infiltrated and attacked a Jewish seminary in West Jerusalem.

Emergency services were called to the school - the Mercaz Harav yeshiva - in the Kiryat Moshe quarter of Jerusalem.

Jerusalem police spokesman Shmuel Ben Ruby said that one of the attackers was wearing an explosives belt and was shot dead, the AP news agency reports.

Channel 10 TV said 10 people were wounded in the attack.

Local Israeli media have reported up to 35 injured.

The gunmen are said to have entered a dining room at the rabbinical seminary, where about 80 people were gathered, AP reports.

Thoughts?

Just another day in Israel.

I'd like to know why this was done.
So likely suspects:
Terrorist organisation,
Religious fanatics (as the attack was done in a Seminary),
er that's about it so far i'll work on that.

Wonder how long till the ebil moslem crowd shows up

And if the attackers somehow turn out to be Palestinians, that would put a crimp on Israel's insistence that the ghettoization of the Occupied Territories is meant to reduce terrorist attacks against Israelis. Or they'll spin it to say "We're not trying hard enough" and then they'll somehow manage to go at it even more brutally than before.

Somebody was clearly not getting enough zinc in their diet. :(

Wonder how long till the ebil moslem crowd shows up

They're practically hanging out in NSG, like human SIGINT programs keyed to specific phrases like "Muslim" and "attack"

They're practically hanging out in NSG, like human SIGINT programs keyed to specific phrases like "Muslim" and "attack"



Well, New Mitanni is apperantly online, so he will be here soon Im sure.

Whatever the motive, it is a tragedy. My prayers go out to the school and the victims families.

Just another day in Israel.
Well, not anymore. It's been a quiet time, and a sense of security has returned. This will shake up Israel again :(

I'd like to know why this was done.
Possibly "Resistance"/terror/revenge.

No matter what the motive, it's still sad.

And if the attackers somehow turn out to be Palestinians, that would put a crimp on Israel's insistence that the ghettoization of the Occupied Territories is meant to reduce terrorist attacks against Israelis.

Bit of a backfire, in fact....
The seminar, the Mercaz Harav yeshiva, is in the Kiryat Moshe quarter of Jerusalem, a well-known centre of Jewish studies identified with the leadership of the Jewish settlement movement in the West Bank.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/06/israelandthepalestinians

Bit of a backfire, in fact....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/06/israelandthepalestinians

It'll eventually come to the point where Israel drops a nuclear bomb on the Palestinians. At which point a lot of NSGers cream in their pants. And the rest of the world cringes at the backblast that's about to follow.

naturally as this attack came from inside Israel the government should begin immediately cutting off power supplies as collective punishment

My prayers go out to the school and the victims families.

careful now :p

It'll eventually come to the point where Israel drops a nuclear bomb on the Palestinians. At which point a lot of NSGers cream in their pants. And the rest of the world cringes at the backblast that's about to follow.

Pre-teen Mutant Ninja Bombers!

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,539979,00.html

Just reading the article and I noticed it said this...which you did not post in your OP:

Nach Bekanntwerden der Bluttat strömten in Gaza Palästinenser auf die Straße und feuerten Freudenschüsse in die Luft.

"Dies ist die Rache Gottes", war aus Lautsprechern zu hören

"Palestinians in Gaza were in the streets shooting into the air celebrating the attacks.

"This is God's revenge, was heard from the loudspeakers".

Yeah...I'm sure these people want peace. They can be reasoned with.:rolleyes:

"There will be no peace until until Palestinian mothers love their children more than they hate the Jews."

Anybody note this line?
"In Gaza City, residents went out into the streets and fired rifles in celebration in the air after hearing news of the attack on the seminary."
Celebrating the deaths of others, even enemies, is rather sad behavior, but knowing that the result is going to be more harm to your own side, and still "celebrating", just seems a little crazed.

"There will be no peace until until Palestinian mothers love their children more than they hate the Jews."

Agreed, but the opposite is also true. This hatred is not a one way street, and it hasnt been for centuries.

Agreed, but the opposite is also true. This hatred is not a one way street, and it hasnt been for centuries.
For decades, to be more accurate. 100 years ago, it was not like this. But you are certainly correct that among some Jewish factions there is a pathological level of hatred against the Palestinians.

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,539979,00.html

Just reading the article and I noticed it said this...which you did not post in your OP:

Nach Bekanntwerden der Bluttat strömten in Gaza Palästinenser auf die Straße und feuerten Freudenschüsse in die Luft.

"Dies ist die Rache Gottes", war aus Lautsprechern zu hören

"Palestinians in Gaza were in the streets shooting into the air celebrating the attacks.

"This is God's revenge, was heard from the loudspeakers".

Yeah...I'm sure these people want peace. They can be reasoned with.:rolleyes:

"There will be no peace until until Palestinian mothers love their children more than they hate the Jews."

I didn't post that in the OP as th information was not present at the time. However that makes this even worse. It wouldn't surprise me if this just turned into a full scale war.

For decades, to be more accurate. 100 years ago, it was not like this. But you are certainly correct that among some Jewish factions there is a pathological level of hatred against the Palestinians.



D'oh, youre right. I was thinking "decades" but for some reason typed in centuries.

Yeah...I'm sure these people want peace. They can be reasoned with.:rolleyes:

just like the Israelis :)

...wait vicious cycle...scared Israelis...turning one population into the stone age...according to my calculations could it be that cutting off things like heat might cause resentment?! quick someone get Peres on the phone!

just seems a little crazed.

you seem to think this whole situation is sane how?

I'm surprised, I didn't know things were that bad out there.

Agreed, but the opposite is also true. This hatred is not a one way street, and it hasnt been for centuries.

It's also not surprisng he's quoting the same Golda Meir who signed the papers on Operation Wrath of God, which ended up as an indiscriminate assassination of Palestinians most of whom actually had nothing to do with Black September or the Munich murders. And in a post TAI ranted about how the indiscriminate assassinations were justified.

For decades, to be more accurate. 100 years ago, it was not like this. But you are certainly correct that among some Jewish factions there is a pathological level of hatred against the Palestinians.

Of course it wouldn't have been like that 100 years ago. Israel didn't exist until 1948.

What I find disturbing is the level of blaming the victim that's going on around here. Some group of guys, presumably terrorists although we don't yet know what faction they represented, goes in and kills a bunch of innocent people and all most of you folks have to say is something to the effect that Israel has been asking for it. I just had an interesting thought... maybe we should be blaming whatever organization is represented by these killers. Maybe our sympathy should not lie with the people who, rather than mourning, are out celebrating the act.

You know, I can understand why there are comments about muslim haters using this as an excuse to rant, but where I'm sitting I see a bunch of anti-semites using it as an excuse to rant.

Anybody note this line?
"In Gaza City, residents went out into the streets and fired rifles in celebration in the air after hearing news of the attack on the seminary."
Celebrating the deaths of others, even enemies, is rather sad behavior, but knowing that the result is going to be more harm to your own side, and still "celebrating", just seems a little crazed.

After months of siege and 100 plus dead? Not in the slightest. Does it ever occur to you what the 'other side' might be thinking and why? Its a thing called "Empathy".

I didn't post that in the OP as th information was not present at the time. However that makes this even worse. It wouldn't surprise me if this just turned into a full scale war.

No, calling it a war would dignify proceedings. 100 plus dead and a siege brought this about, and it will be used to justify it all in hindsight as ever.

After months of siege and 100 plus dead? Not in the slightest. Does it ever occur to you what the 'other side' might be thinking and why? Its a thing called "Empathy".
"Empathy" is precisely what is lacking here.
No, despite all the furor over the kids maimed by the rockets and so on, no Israelis went out "celebrating" when militants were shot, or especially not when Palestinian bystanders also got shot. This particular attitude of feeling happy over the death of others is abhorrent to me.

"Empathy" is precisely what is lacking here.
No, despite all the furor over the kids maimed by the rockets and so on, no Israelis went out "celebrating" when militants were shot, or especially not when Palestinian bystanders also got shot. This particular attitude of feeling happy over the death of others is abhorrent to me.

No, I mean that would mean they were at least as bad as each other on occassion.....
One week ago, Israelis prematurely celebrated after a reporter told President Bush that Arafat had apparently died.
http://web.israelinsider.com/Views/4371.htm

I call it "grievance theater". Each side commits atrocities against the other, and when it happens to them, they beat their chests, shout brave slogans, and decry the atrocities. Then they run out and commit more atrocities.

More or less.

No, calling it a war would dignify proceedings. 100 plus dead and a siege brought this about, and it will be used to justify it all in hindsight as ever.

I call it "grievance theater". Each side commits atrocities against the other, and when it happens to them, they beat their chests, shout brave slogans, and decry the atrocities. Then they run out and commit more atrocities.

2 nukes. problem solved.

2 nukes. problem solved.

Are you advocating genocide as a solution?

Are you advocating genocide as a solution?

of both side in the general area.


It will be quicker than waiting for them to do it themselves.

It's horrible, and added to by the apparent celebrations by some in Gaza.

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,539979,00.html

Just reading the article and I noticed it said this...which you did not post in your OP:

Nach Bekanntwerden der Bluttat strömten in Gaza Palästinenser auf die Straße und feuerten Freudenschüsse in die Luft.

"Dies ist die Rache Gottes", war aus Lautsprechern zu hören

"Palestinians in Gaza were in the streets shooting into the air celebrating the attacks.

"This is God's revenge, was heard from the loudspeakers".

Yeah...I'm sure these people want peace. They can be reasoned with.:rolleyes:

"There will be no peace until until Palestinian mothers love their children more than they hate the Jews."

there will be no peace untill the jews stop oppressing the palestinians

2 nukes. problem solved.

Except for the radiation problems and fallout which will effectively shut down the oil industry for awhile...

Poor bastards. :(

Well, New Mitanni is apperantly online, so he will be here soon Im sure.

Well, since you asked:

http://www.africasia.com/services/news/newsitem.php?area=mideast&item=080306202237.q8obomzk.php


The Palestinian Hamas movement hailed a deadly attack on a Jewish religious school in Jerusalem on Thursday night as "heroic," without claiming responsibility for the strike that killed eight.

"This heroic attack in Jerusalem is a normal response to the crimes of the occupier and its murder of civilians," Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri said.

. . . .

Hundreds of Palestinians poured into the streets of Gaza City as news of the attack at a west Jerusalem yeshiva spread, firing automatic rifles into the air in celebration.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,335730,00.html


Hamas stopped just short of claiming responsibility for the Jerusalem shootings. "We bless the operation. It will not be the last," Hamas said in a statement sent to reporters by text message.

At mosques in Gaza City and the northern Gaza Strip, many residents performed prayers of thanksgiving — only performed in cases of great victory to thank God.

About 7,000 Gazans marched in the streets of Jebaliya, firing in the air in celebration, and visited homes of those killed and wounded in the last Israeli incursion. In the southern town of Rafah, residents distributed sweets to moving cars, and militants fired mortars in celebration


Yes, this is what passes for "heroism" in the demented world of the Islamo-Nazi terrorist and the savages in whose name they commit their atrocities: sneaking into a school and unloading automatic weapons against a room full of students. Practitioners of the religion of pieces once again awe the civilized world with their intrepid valor.

But there was one positive outcome at least:


One of the students, Yitzhak Dadon, said he shot the attacker twice in the head. "I laid on the roof of the study hall, cocked my gun and waited for him. He came out of the library spraying automatic fire," he said.

Police said an Israeli soldier in the area then shot the man dead.

of both side in the general area.


It will be quicker than waiting for them to do it themselves.

So, is genocide something you really like?

Except for the radiation problems and fallout which will effectively shut down the oil industry for awhile...

Yes, because, you know, oil is the main reason we shouldn't be using thermonuclear weapons on people.

It'll eventually come to the point where Israel drops a nuclear bomb on the Palestinians. At which point a lot of NSGers cream in their pants. And the rest of the world cringes at the backblast that's about to follow.

Wawaweewah? I seriously, seriously, seriously doubt that the Israeli government would ever even consider detonating an atomic device in the territory of the Palestinian Authority, for a whole host of reasons, not limited to the IDF's existing preference to minimize civilian casualties.

It's a wonder anybody even lives in Israel or Gaza. Who would want to?

Honestly, I rarely even read articles about the middle east anymore, because they all say, (Insert random number) killed in (israeli/Hamas/other) attack.

Yes, because, you know, oil is the main reason we shouldn't be using thermonuclear weapons on people.

We shouldn't be using hydrogen bombs on anyone. Period.

We shouldn't be using hydrogen bombs on anyone. Period.

Or bombs in general, guns, forks, knives, poison gas, swords, ropes, or violence?

That is ridiculous. You're seriously trying to compare celebrations over this murder of innocents in a school shooting to Israelis (and any sane person) being happy that a terrorist is dying / has died?

Make that comparison. I dare you.

The principle of celebrating another human being's death is unrelated to what that person did in life.

No, I mean that would mean they were at least as bad as each other on occassion.....

http://web.israelinsider.com/Views/4371.htm

That is ridiculous. You're seriously trying to compare celebrations over this murder of innocents in a school shooting to Israelis (and any sane person) being happy that a terrorist is dying / has died?

Make that comparison. I dare you.

Agreed, but the opposite is also true. This hatred is not a one way street, and it hasnt been for centuries.
There is no doubt that there is hatred for the Palestinians by the Israelis, but the world does not expect them to like each other. The world expects them to coexist. Israel will accept a Palestinian state and has in the past (the two state U.N. mandate). Palestinians fight for the destruction of Israel and have NOT accepted coexistance in the past (the two state U.N. mandate).

It's also not surprisng he's quoting the same Golda Meir who signed the papers on Operation Wrath of God, which ended up as an indiscriminate assassination of Palestinians most of whom actually had nothing to do with Black September or the Munich murders. And in a post TAI ranted about how the indiscriminate assassinations were justified.
I like Golda Meir. Operation Wrath of God was legit. Israel had to assure the Arab states in EVERY WAY THAT IT COULD, that it would take terrorism as seriously as possible, so as to ensure it's existance. Accidents happend, and for that I mourn the loss of the innocent killed in this operation, but the operation was necessary to ensure the survival of the state...and to try as best as possible to scare terrorists out of performing further acts of terrosism. To show them that they would not be able to afford the price of killing more Jews. And FOR THAT, the operation was trying to save lives. An operation which accidentatly kills a life to save countless more lives and to ensure that genocide does not come down upon a nation, is legit.

Aside from the accident, which was still nto "indescriminate", but an accident....the assassinations were hardly indiscriminate. They were well plained and carried out by highly skilled agents. Some of the best in the business.
Of course it wouldn't have been like that 100 years ago. Israel didn't exist until 1948.

What I find disturbing is the level of blaming the victim that's going on around here. Some group of guys, presumably terrorists although we don't yet know what faction they represented, goes in and kills a bunch of innocent people and all most of you folks have to say is something to the effect that Israel has been asking for it. I just had an interesting thought... maybe we should be blaming whatever organization is represented by these killers. Maybe our sympathy should not lie with the people who, rather than mourning, are out celebrating the act.

You know, I can understand why there are comments about muslim haters using this as an excuse to rant, but where I'm sitting I see a bunch of anti-semites using it as an excuse to rant.
Totally agreed.

Typical post:
--Israeli school attacked by Palestinians--

"Wow, I can't wait to see what those awful Isarelis are gonna do to the poor Palestinians in retaliation."

:rolleyes:

The principle of celebrating another human being's death is unrelated to what that person did in life.
Yes it is because some people cause harm and suffering in life and thus, by removing them from life, you spare other innocents from harm and suffering. Thus it should be applauded that you are sparing the innocents from the terror that has plagued their life.

As far as everyone in the world is concerned, Arafat caused much more terror that some innocent students in a religious school.

Yes it is because some people cause harm and suffering in life and thus, by removing them from life, you spare other innocents from harm and suffering. Thus it should be applauded that you are sparing the innocents from the terror that has plagued their life.

As far as everyone in the world is concerned, Arafat caused much more terror that some innocent students in a religious school.

Irrelevant to the principle of celebrating the death of another human being. You seem to have difficulty with the meaning of the italicised word.

I like Golda Meir. Operation Wrath of God was legit. Israel had to assure the Arab states in EVERY WAY THAT IT COULD, that it would take terrorism as seriously as possible, so as to ensure it's existance. Accidents happend, and for that I mourn the loss of the innocent killed in this operation, but the operation was necessary to ensure the survival of the state...and to try as best as possible to scare terrorists out of performing further acts of terrosism. To show them that they would not be able to afford the price of killing more Jews. And FOR THAT, the operation was trying to save lives. An operation which accidentatly kills a life to save countless more lives and to ensure that genocide does not come down upon a nation, is legit.

Aside from the accident, which was still nto "indescriminate", but an accident....the assassinations were hardly indiscriminate. They were well plained and carried out by highly skilled agents. Some of the best in the business.
Except it was no accident that they murdered Ahmed Bouchiki.

Irrelevant to the principle of celebrating the death of another human being. You seem to have difficulty with the meaning of the italicised word.
No I don't. You don't have to shoot your guns in the air to celebrate. You can just be joyfull and discuss with your friends/neighbors/ect how happy you are that the world will finally be rid of his suffering.

You seem to have difficulty grasping this: Araft's death was celebrated as freedom from oppression and a reign of terror. Just like the allies celebrated Hitler's death, for example.

Address this:
Yes it is because some people cause harm and suffering in life and thus, by removing them from life, you spare other innocents from harm and suffering. Thus it should be applauded that you are sparing the innocents from the terror that has plagued their life.

You seem to have difficulty grasping this: Araft's death was celebrated as freedom from oppression and a reign of terror. Just like the allies celebrated Hitler's death, for example.
I don't think the Allies celebrated the death of Hitler. They celebrated the end of a brutal and horrific war that costs the lives of millions. Not the death of Hitler.

Address this:
Yes it is because some people cause harm and suffering in life and thus, by removing them from life, you spare other innocents from harm and suffering. Thus it should be applauded that you are sparing the innocents from the terror that has plagued their life.
Applaud the death of another human being? No thanks mate. I like to think I'm better than that.

No, I mean that would mean they were at least as bad as each other on occassion.....

http://web.israelinsider.com/Views/4371.htm
I cannot approve of that guy either.
At least, though, you've switched to "so's your old man!" rather than expecting me to actually approve of the Palestinian conduct.

Jerusalem if I forget you
Fire may rain down
Jerusalem if I forget you
Let my right hand forget what it´s supposed to do!

the IDF's existing preference to minimize civilian casualties.




Boy they sure have a funny way of showing that preferance.

You know, I can understand why there are comments about muslim haters using this as an excuse to rant, but where I'm sitting I see a bunch of anti-semites using it as an excuse to rant.

Anti-semites? Disliking the Israeli government's handling of the Palestinians =/= hating all Jews. This should really be obvious.

That said, the reaction I'm mostly seeing here and elsewhere is the same reaction I'm having: This is abhorrent. I'm sure the retaliation will also be abhorrent. And the retaliation for the retaliation will also be abhorrent. And the retaliation for the retaliation for the retaliation...and so on, for heaven only knows how much longer.

That's how things have worked in Israel for some time now, and anyone who sees one side of the conflict as great and the other as evil is being more than a little naive.

Anybody note this line?
"In Gaza City, residents went out into the streets and fired rifles in celebration in the air after hearing news of the attack on the seminary."
Celebrating the deaths of others, even enemies, is rather sad behavior, but knowing that the result is going to be more harm to your own side, and still "celebrating", just seems a little crazed.

New Mitanni does it fairly often, as does TAI. Myrmi does it when it involves the whole Aryan race thing. Celt, well, jingoistic, but I haven't seen him celebrate the deaths of others.

Maybe our sympathy should not lie with the people who, rather than mourning, are out celebrating the act.


I wouldn't really know. I doubt many would be sympathetic to the ones mourning if Fred Phelps keeled over one day, but most NSGer's know what kind of a loons he and the only ones who would mourn his passing are.

Likewise, the same principle of standard would apply to the ones who died in this attack. Were they generally ultra fundamentalist wastes of space? Or were they actually good people?

People died, true, but sympathy at this point should be reserved for if they, as people, deserved sympathy.

You know, I can understand why there are comments about muslim haters using this as an excuse to rant, but where I'm sitting I see a bunch of anti-semites using it as an excuse to rant.

Youre usually pretty rational, but I think you lost it a little here man.


Saying "Wow, Israel is going to do what they always do and fuck up and make things worse."

Is in no way the same as saying "Damn sneaky kikes are gettin whats coming to em!"


No one has been anti-semetic, and so far only one person has been anti-Islamic (NM)

Israel will accept a Palestinian state and has in the past (the two state U.N. mandate).

Not all of Israel will, or will stand by to allow a Palestinian state exist. Rabin died at an ultra-nationalist Jew's hands for trying to accept a Palestinian state. And the Cave of the Partriachs massacre was perpetrated by yet another ultra-nationalist Jew solely for the purpose of exacerbating tensions.

These people are not rare aberrations in Israel, and in fact, have a less extreme branch known as the Likud party.

It takes two hands to clap, and Israel is hardly innocent in this continuation of tit for tat fighting.

Deny that if you will, it will not change the facts.

Except it was no accident that they murdered Ahmed Bouchiki.

Not to mention all they got for the murder were relative slaps on the wrist. If it had been Palestinian assassins mistakenly gunning down the wrong Israeli there'd be calls for mass executions.

Boy they sure have a funny way of showing that preferance.

Oh come on, even I know that teh Israelis use some restraint. Consider all the fire power they have at their disposal. More than enough to wipe clean all of Gaza in a instant, but have they done it? Nope. Will they do it? Probably not. Why? Because, guess what, there are some genuinely good people in Israel that don't want to see others suffer, and will seek to use all the power they can to prevent innocents from dying, while eliminating enemy combatants.

I guess its Hamas........

These articles might explain things:

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL0630763620080307?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7280026.stm

(I hardly heard about the Palestinian deaths (120) caused by Israel's incursion into Gaza since last week.) I guess it wasn't important enough to be reported.

...there are some genuinely good people in Israel that don't want to see others suffer, and will seek to use all the power they can to prevent innocents from dying....
if that were true they'd give up the settlement extension and occupation of the West Bank at once. but they don't and subsequently you are a liar.

These articles might explain things:

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL0630763620080307?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7280026.stm

(I hardly heard about the Palestinian deaths (120) caused by Israel's incursion into Gaza since last week.) I guess it wasn't important enough to be reported.

When Israelis die it's a tragedy, but when Palestinians die it's pest control.

if that were true they'd give up the settlement extension and occupation of the West Bank at once. but they don't and subsequently you are a liar.

Ahh, the old, "if some do it, all do it." spiel.

So if some anti-zionists, like you, are part of the Aryan brotherhood, I suppose that makes you one of them too. And a Nazi. And part of the now defunct Gestapo.

No, it's an improvement of humankind.

So you want the Jews to die then?

When Israelis die it's a tragedy, ...No, it's an improvement of humankind.

Ahh, the old, "if some do it, all do it." spiel.

So if some anti-zionists, like you, are part of the Aryan brotherhood, I suppose that makes you one of them too. And a Nazi. And part of the now defunct Gestapo.What do you mean with "some do it" ? Israel does it as a whole, with their taxes and military and votes. There is no "some" at the state level.

So you want the Jews to die then?Personally want? No.

These people are not rare aberrations in Israel, and in fact, have a less extreme branch known as the Likud party.

I'm not trying to spark another debate, but just remember that the Likud has 12 seats in the Knesset today (out of 120), while Hamas got about 70% of the votes in the recent Palestinian election.

Also, if you came to an Israeli right-wing extremist saying Likud is a right-wing party he would probably slap you in the face... :)
They see the Likud as a bunch of hollow idiots who care only for their seat (and I absolutely agree with that). Actually, there are no real right-wing parties anymore. Maybe one, but it isn't doing anything.

if that were true they'd give up the settlement extension and occupation of the West Bank at once. but they don't and subsequently you are a liar.

By saying he is a liar, what you're actually saying is that "there are no good people in Israel", and you say that because you don't see actions to stop the settlement enterprise or leave the west bank.
Can I conclude that "there are no good people among the Palestinians" because I still see rocktes being fired and terror attacks being done?

Besides, generalizations are bad for your health.

No, it's an improvement of humankind.

Thank you very much.

I'm not trying to spark another debate, but just remember that the Likud has 12 seats in the Knesset today (out of 120), while Hamas got about 70% of the votes in the recent Palestinian election.


You also have to remember that the Palestinian elections only have two major parties, and prior to that election Hamas was using its own funds to rebuild people's homes and buy food.

By saying he is a liar, what you're actually saying is that "there are no good people in Israel", and you say that because you don't see actions to stop the settlement enterprise or leave the west bank.
Can I conclude that "there are no good people among the Palestinians" because I still see rocktes being fired and terror attacks being done?The difference between Israelis and Palestinians is that Israelis are those who build settlements and occupy the West Bank while Palestinians are their victims. If Palestinians fight back, that's only fair. And when it hits religious Jews as pictured, there is no reason for sadness.
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/WORLD/meast/03/07/mideast/t1home.rabbi.students.afp.gi.jpg

The difference between Israelis and Palestinians is that Israelis are those who build settlements and occupy the West Bank while Palestinians are their victims.

Your viewpoint is naive and twisted. Even most Israelis and Palestinians know that there are no absolute victims in this conflict, yet you keep presenting it as if there's a battle between pure and evil going on.

I think you'll never be satisfied with the result.

If Palestinians fight back, that's only fair.

Firing rockets at cities constantly and indiscriminately for years and sending people to explode themselves in schools hoping to hit as many people as possible is not "fighting back", but harming thier cause even more.

In the first Intifada, back in 1987, the Palestinians were actually "fighting back". That was a true national uprising, and it led to major criticism against the government, and to the Olso accords.

This time, when all they do is to terrorise as many as possible, it's not "fighting back", but more like shooting yourself in the leg.

And when it hits religious Jews as pictured, there is no reason for sadness.

Slowly but surely, your ignorance is getting on everybody's nerves.

What do you mean with "some do it" ? Israel does it as a whole, with their taxes and military and votes. There is no "some" at the state level.

Thereby we can blame YOU, specifically, for every crime your government commits. You are complicit in corruption, murders, embezzlement of funds, and what have you.

Thereby we can blame YOU, specifically, for every crime your government commits. You are complicit in corruption, murders, embezzlement of funds, and what have you.

well it is your fault for them being in power i cite bush, any americans here? ya you guys voted him in twice

I'm not trying to spark another debate, but just remember that the Likud has 12 seats in the Knesset today (out of 120), while Hamas got about 70% of the votes in the recent Palestinian election.

Maybe, but I did specify Likud was the less extreme branch of that sentiment. The extremists on the other hand, can muck up things just fine without a political seat.

We shouldn't be using hydrogen bombs on anyone. Period.

what about naphlam ;), my opinion deploy Lunatic Goofballs, the entire problem would end in 2 hours

I haven't read all the comments, but passing by, I have seen no one pointing out that there was also hundred of Jewish students demonstrating in the streets and chanting " Death to the Arabs ".
Seems very identical to an undetermined number of Palestinians demonstrating in Gaza straits, no ?

Fuck this is absolutly a mess, as it was ever, and there's certainly no more peaceful solution, as long as both sides aren't judged in the same way?
Why, everytime someone said something against Israël, he's treated as an antisemit ?
For me, spoking about Israël like a NORMAL country and don't seeing them in other way than " another country in the world " is acting mad.

What I don't understand is this: Palestinian terrorism exist since what ? near 40 years, in the modern form.
Every time Israël replicate with blind bombings and collective punishment of civilians, there's more terrorists.
Note that I speak about innocents and blind strikes... not about terrorists.

So, we clearly know that this course of action absolutly doesn't work, that you also need political and diplomatical appeasment.

As long as Israëlis knew that they can " retaliate " in the way they want without suffering any consequence, terrorism would happen.
In fact, since it's the case for decades, I don't think it could end pacifically now, and I blame Israelis politicians for this, it's exactly what they wanted: a perpetual war, with US vetos on the UN, so they could keep all the land indefinitly.

Again, what's the difference between IDF soldiers lauching bombs on civilians and a terrorist shooting in a school who oppenly support colonisation of Palestinian territory and murder of Arabs ?

Both sides are almost equally bad for me ( almost, because I still give more credits to Israël than to the Palestinian, at least, when the Israeli Prime Minister say " stop ", his soldiers obey the command...can't say that Mahmoud Abbas own such power... )

PS: Yes, I perfectly know what would have happened to Israël if they have lost any of the war they were engaged ( except Suez crisis :p )
But this is not the point, here.

well it is your fault for them being in power i cite bush, any americans here? ya you guys voted him in twice

Not an American, don't live in anywhere that resembles an actual democracy, although it likes to pretend it is, and I think you're misreading the sentence.

Not an American, don't live in anywhere that resembles an actual democracy, although it likes to pretend it is, and I think you're misreading the sentence.

you elect a goverment, that goverment does unethical and illegal things, do you not share the blame?

Your viewpoint is naive and twisted. Even most Israelis and Palestinians know that there are no absolute victims in this conflict, yet you keep presenting it as if there's a battle between pure and evil going on.

I think you'll never be satisfied with the result.

Firing rockets at cities constantly and indiscriminately for years and sending people to explode themselves in schools hoping to hit as many people as possible is not "fighting back", but harming thier cause even more.

In the first Intifada, back in 1987, the Palestinians were actually "fighting back". That was a true national uprising, and it led to major criticism against the government, and to the Olso accords.

This time, when all they do is to terrorise as many as possible, it's not "fighting back", but more like shooting yourself in the leg.

Slowly but surely, your ignorance is getting on everybody's nerves.
Palestinians do not occupy anybody else's homeland. Israelis do. So shut the fuck up. The guilt lies with the occupier alone. If there were no occupation there would be no retaliation. It is that simple.

you elect a goverment, that goverment does unethical and illegal things, do you not share the blame?in a democracy definitely. if your votes and taxes are used to do evil you have part of the guilt.

Palestinians do not occupy anybody else's homeland. Israelis do. So shut the fuck up. The guilt lies with the occupier alone. If there were no occupation there would be no retaliation. It is that simple.

Considering the fact that Israel was more than happy with the partition plan when they declared independence, this statement holds no water considering the fact that it was the arabs who started the war.

That also goes the other way around - If there was no war there would be no occupation. If the war continues, the occupation continues.
Currently, as I don't see any Palestinian intention to stop the war, I also don't see a reason to give them what they want.

You're right, it is that simple.Jews started the war. They wanted Palestine. Arabs just wanted to be left alone, but that was not what they got from the West.

you elect a goverment, that goverment does unethical and illegal things, do you not share the blame?

There hasn't been an unfixed election here since some odd 40 years ago when they pulled off a coup de tat under the cover of staged riots. Every election that comes through effectively has the ballots tossed in the river while the ruling party makes barely veiled threats of violence if they lose.

Also, to answer your question, no. This sort of fallacy assumes that the voters have perfect knowledge of the ethics and methods of professional liars. It's no more valid than assuming that if someone is released from jail to re-offend, the jail is to blame.

That also goes the other way around - If there was no war there would be no occupation. If the war continues, the occupation continues.
Currently, as I don't see any Palestinian intention to stop the war, I also don't see a reason to give them what they want.

You're right, it is that simple.

Except in his mind the occupation started when the jews started migrating back to their homeland.

If there were no occupation there would be no retaliation.

That also goes the other way around - If there was no war there would be no occupation. If the war continues, the occupation continues.
Currently, as I don't see any Palestinian intention to stop the war, I also don't see a reason to give them what they want.

You're right, it is that simple.

Anybody note this line?

Celebrating the deaths of others, even enemies, is rather sad behavior, but knowing that the result is going to be more harm to your own side, and still "celebrating", just seems a little crazed.

Sad? It's vile.

In the Tao te Ching, it is written that when violence must be used, even though sometimes it must, it is a sad occassion and never a happy one.

As it is written:

To rejoice in victory is to delight in killing;
to delight in killing is to have no self-being.
The conduct of war is that of a funeral;
when people are killed, it is a time of mourning.
This is why even victorious battle
should be observed without rejoicing.

Jews started the war.

Liar. It wasn't Israel that declared war first, no matter how much you want to pretend they did.

Thoughts?

My Jerusalem (http://youtube.com/watch?v=_srYl3BI7IQ)

Jews started the war. They wanted Palestine. Arabs just wanted to be left alone, but that was not what they got from the West.

Middle eastern Jews were oppressed, native to the region, and no democratic alternative was available to them. They had a right to independence.

Having a right to independence, they have a right to determine their own immigration policy.

Had the Arabs created pluralistic democratic states in the territories they conquered and occupied, Israel would not have been required. But they chose ethnic/religious monarchies and theocracies. Oppression creates a right to freedom.

Again, what's the difference between IDF soldiers lauching bombs on civilians and a terrorist shooting in a school who oppenly support colonisation of Palestinian territory and murder of Arabs ?.

The difference is, and has always been, the IDF tries to kill fighters, who hide in and among civilians, often with the consent of those civilians. We've all seen the "Palestinian kids swarming around the rocket launcher" photos. And sometimes, accidents happen, but this is not intended, not celebrated.

When Arabs kill civilians, it is the intent, and it is cause for celebration.

It is a big difference. See Tao te Ching quote above. The Palestinians forfeit their Self-Being as a matter of routine, the Israelis do not.

Middle eastern Jews were oppressed, native to the region, and no democratic alternative was available to them. They had a right to independence.

Having a right to independence, they have a right to determine their own immigration policy. most Africans-Americans will tell you they have been oppressed and enslaved in the past, and they probably have been, but they dont get a right to use warplanes and cluster bombs on the "others"...

most Natives -from several Countries in the World- will tell you they have been oppressed and genocided in the past, and they probably have been, but they dont get a right to independence today.

The Jews that you are talking about, the Jews from 100 years ago have been treated much better by the Middle East neighbors.. way better than the groups I mentioned were treated in my Country, and in other Countries.

The ArabsLands were relatively good hosts to minorities including Jews and Christians.. until Zionism started, and the Jews started to use terrorism and other eviction strategies.

most Africans-Americans will tell you they have been oppressed and enslaved in the past, and they probably have been, but they dont get a right to use warplanes and cluster bombs on the "others"...

Um...does the phrase slave revolt tell you something?

Um...does the phrase slave revolt tell you something?Malcolm X or maybe MLK (margarine of revolt)












it does not tell me Obama, thats for sure ;)

Malcolm X or maybe MLK (margarine of revolt)

MLK did things peacefully while Malcolm X thought violence was the way to go!

That's neither here nor there though as I made a specific reference to slave revolts. They did rise up against oppression.

it does not tell me Obama, thats for sure ;)

Has nothing to do with this thread.

Has nothing to do with this thread.so-sue-me©

Um...does the phrase slave revolt tell you something?Malcolm X ... or maybe MLK (margarine of revolt) MLK did things peacefully peacefully = margarine of Revolt. ;)

Jews started the war. They wanted Palestine. Arabs just wanted to be left alone, but that was not what they got from the West.



The level of ignorance of recent history in this statement is disturbing...

Declaring statehood in someone else's homeland is a direct declaration of war against the inhabitants of that land.

It wasn't even their land. The land holders where living elsewhere.

Liar. It wasn't Israel that declared war first, no matter how much you want to pretend they did.Declaring statehood in someone else's homeland is a direct declaration of war against the inhabitants of that land. And it was the Jews intention to claim half of Palestine for themselves. If someone came today and claimed half of Wales that would be a declaration of war against the inhabitants of Wales, no matter what you officially call it.

Declaring statehood in someone else's homeland is a direct declaration of war against the inhabitants of that land.

Well bully. Why aren't you calling for the Americans to go back to Europe? Or the British to give up their land to the Celts? Can you explain why? They did exactly what you claim the Jewish Israeli's did. Deny it, or ignore it, and you're nothing but a hypocrite.


And it was the Jews intention to claim half of Palestine for themselves. If

So now you claim to be a mind reader. No, you don't get to point to today as an example of their intent 50 years ago because then you'd be admitting the Arabian nations declared war first.

Also, Palestine belonged to the British at the time, not any of the Arabic neighbors.

Declaring statehood in someone else's homeland is a direct declaration of war against the inhabitants of that land. And it was the Jews intention to claim half of Palestine for themselves. If someone came today and claimed half of Wales that would be a declaration of war against the inhabitants of Wales, no matter what you officially call it.


Palastine was British turff.

Britian gave the Jews said terff. The arabs declared war, Israel kicked their asses, and here we are today.

well, goody

Religious fanatics attacking religious fanatics

when its religion versus religion in the Middle East, the american propaganda machine gears up and tends to paint the victim as the innocent side - when in truth, its just the middle easterns trying to get the jews out of the lands that were THEIRS before other powers put the jews there

its just like a garden - other nations planted weeds in there and blame the natural life for wanting its space back

well, goody

Religious fanatics attacking religious fanatics

when its religion versus religion in the Middle East, the american propaganda machine gears up and tends to paint the victim as the innocent side - when in truth, its just the middle easterns trying to get the jews out of the lands that were THEIRS before other powers put the jews there

its just like a garden - other nations planted weeds in there and blame the natural life for wanting its space back

And before it was the arabs' land, it was the jews' (not immediately before, but unless you're being purposefully dense you get my point)

its just like a garden - other nations planted weeds in there and blame the natural life for wanting its space back

By referring to a group of people as "weeds", any argument may present is already cast off into the Bigot folder. From there we will test for trace amounts of Troll.

Palastine was British turff.

Britian gave the Jews said terff. The arabs declared war, Israel kicked their asses, and here we are today.Palestine was never British turf. It has been inhabited by Arabs since the early middle ages. After the downfall of the Ottoman Empire Britain was only asked to administer Palestine on behalf of its inhabitants. The Arabs of Palestine were never asked and their wishes were never considered. And letting Jews into Palestine en masse was a violation of the Palestinian Arabs' natural right to self-determination. They were ruled over by the British as if they were one of their colonies. And when the UN set up the division plan because of constant Jewish aggression they again did not ask the Palestinian Arabs but decided over their heads.

Palestine was never British turf. It has been inhabited by Arabs since the early middle ages. After the downfall of the Ottoman Empire Britain was only asked to administer Palestine on behalf of its inhabitants. The Arabs of Palestine were never asked and their wishes were never considered. And letting Jews into Palestine en masse was a violation of the Palestinian Arabs' natural right to self-determination. They were ruled over by the British as if they were one of their colonies. And when the UN set up the division plan because of constant Jewish aggression they again did not ask the Palestinian Arabs but decided over their heads.

You want want to consider reading this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine)

I take your point Dyakovo

In all truth, i never bothered, nor gave a damn about that area of the world to read about it, and i have no interest to do so either, I have just gone by facts about that area that others have told me

My field of interest is north up in the german-soviet landspace

No, it's an improvement of humankind.

Personally want? No.

Wait, what? You don't want an 'improvement of humankind'? Why not?

I think you do and you only said the latter to avoid looking like a complete jerkoff.

That is ridiculous. You're seriously trying to compare celebrations over this murder of innocents in a school shooting to Israelis (and any sane person) being happy that a terrorist is dying / has died?

Make that comparison. I dare you.

I think I just did. I could also dig out how certain elements honour Dr Baruch Goldstein too, for context, but I think I got the point across.

It was an institution linked with the "settler" movement. If it was a Palestinian institution linked with Hamas/Hezbollah we'd be hearing about how they hide behind civillians and its all their own fault.


Arafat caused much more terror that some innocent students in a religious school..

I doubt you'd be saying that if it was a muslim school of similar ilk.


I cannot approve of that guy either.
At least, though, you've switched to "so's your old man!" rather than expecting me to actually approve of the Palestinian conduct...

"understand" and "approve" are not one in the same. I know and understand why certain people end up in and out of prison all their lives. That doesnt mean I approve of what they do.


You know, I can understand why there are comments about muslim haters using this as an excuse to rant, but where I'm sitting I see a bunch of anti-semites using it as an excuse to rant....

Please indicate who you believe is/are the anti-semite(s) by use of the quote function please. I've only seen two so far and they started posting after your comment.

I take your point Dyakovo

In all truth, i never bothered, nor gave a damn about that area of the world to read about it, and i have no interest to do so either, I have just gone by facts about that area that others have told me

My field of interest is north up in the german-soviet landspace

*bows*

Well if it comes to we the outsiders helping the area

I choose to assist the side who have been nice people to me - Syrians, Persians, Turkish and the like

Well if it comes to we the outsiders helping the area

I choose to assist the side who have been nice people to me - Syrians, Persians, Turkish and the like




Judging by your post on other threads, Im pretty sure you just dont like jews. Maybe it has something to do with your Nazi ideology?

I'm not trying to spark another debate, but just remember that the Likud has 12 seats in the Knesset today (out of 120), while Hamas got about 70% of the votes in the recent Palestinian election.

That's incorrect. They got 44% of the votes.

Hamas won 44 percent of the popular vote but 56 percent of the seats, while Fatah won 42 percent of the popular vote but only 34 percent of the seats.
NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/14/international/middleeast/14mideast.html?ei=5094&en=d28cff5caa1702fa&hp=&ex=1139979600&partner=homepage&pagewanted=print)

Hamas did not enjoy that much of a popular support in Gaza before the election. Only 30.000 votes seperated them from Fatah.

And let me add:
Dahlan says he warned his friends in the Bush administration that Fatah still wasn’t ready for elections in January. Decades of self-preservationist rule by Arafat had turned the party into a symbol of corruption and inefficiency—a perception Hamas found it easy to exploit. Splits within Fatah weakened its position further: in many places, a single Hamas candidate ran against several from Fatah.

“Everyone was against the elections,” Dahlan says. Everyone except Bush. “Bush decided, ‘I need an election. I want elections in the Palestinian Authority.’ Everyone is following him in the American administration, and everyone is nagging Abbas, telling him, ‘The president wants elections.’ Fine. For what purpose?”

The elections went forward as scheduled. On January 25, Hamas won 56 percent of the seats in the Legislative Council.

Few inside the U.S. administration had predicted the result, and there was no contingency plan to deal with it. “I’ve asked why nobody saw it coming,” Condoleezza Rice told reporters. “I don’t know anyone who wasn’t caught off guard by Hamas’s strong showing.”

“Everyone blamed everyone else,” says an official with the Department of Defense. “We sat there in the Pentagon and said, ‘Who the fuck recommended this?’ ”
Some analysts argued that Hamas had a substantial moderate wing that could be strengthened if America coaxed it into the peace process. Notable Israelis—such as Ephraim Halevy, the former head of the Mossad intelligence agency—shared this view. But if America paused to consider giving Hamas the benefit of the doubt, the moment was “milliseconds long,” says a senior State Department official. “The administration spoke with one voice: ‘We have to squeeze these guys.’ With Hamas’s election victory, the freedom agenda was dead.”
The irony of the blockade on foreign aid after Hamas’s legislative victory, meanwhile, was that it prevented only Fatah from paying its soldiers. “We are the ones who were not getting paid,” Issa says, “whereas they were not affected by the siege.” Ayman Daraghmeh, a Hamas Legislative Council member in the West Bank, agrees. He puts the amount of Iranian aid to Hamas in 2007 alone at $120 million. “This is only a fraction of what it should give,” he insists. In Gaza, another Hamas member tells me the number was closer to $200 million.

The result was becoming apparent: Fatah could not control Gaza’s streets—or even protect its own personnel.
The [Hamas] coup has had other costs. Amjad Shawer, a local economist, tells me that Gaza had 400 functioning factories and workshops at the start of 2007. By December, the intensified Israeli blockade had caused 90 percent of them to close. Seventy percent of Gaza’s population is now living on less than $2 a day.

Israel, meanwhile, is no safer. The emergency pro-peace government called for in the secret Action Plan is now in office—but only in the West Bank. In Gaza, the exact thing both Israel and the U.S. Congress warned against came to pass when Hamas captured most of Fatah’s arms and ammunition—including the new Egyptian guns supplied under the covert U.S.-Arab aid program.
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/04/gaza200804

After that bowing, i feel as if Dyakovo is secretly using his force powers to make me build him a temple for all to seek his wisdom

After that bowing, i feel as if Dyakovo is secretly using his force powers to make me build him a temple for all to seek his wisdom

Damn, you caught me! ;)

Palestine was never British turf. It has been inhabited by Arabs since the early middle ages.

Using this logic, America, Canada and Australia was never British turf. Britain was never Saxon turf.


The Arabs of Palestine were never asked and their wishes were never considered.


Neither were the Native Americans nor were the Celts consulted.


And letting Jews into Palestine en masse was a violation of the Palestinian Arabs' natural right to self-determination.

You mean like the Native American right of self determination?


They were ruled over by the British as if they were one of their colonies. And when the UN set up the division plan because of constant Jewish aggression they again did not ask the Palestinian Arabs but decided over their heads.

Gee, just like the native American and Australian aboriginal settlements.

How come you're not making waves over that hmmm? Is it because you're afraid to confront just how hollow your argument is?

well Dyakovo, this is the second time i have read words of wisdom from your posts, and i know there will be more to come for many years

After that bowing, i feel as if Dyakovo is secretly using his force powers to make me build him a temple for all to seek his wisdom

There's something you should know about your "wise" Dyakovo, Kiche--Kirce--Ke--Er...Bach. He's a handist. Yes, that's right.

He hates left-handed people. We, like the Jews have been unfairly oppressed for millennia. Which is why I'm sure UB will be my strongest ally in campaigning for equal rights, the right to vote chief among those.

Oh, and Dyakovo, don't think I forgot you were here too. Don't worry, I didn't forget to bring you a message, old "friend". Try: Sic semper tyrannis!

So... what were we talking about again?

last i heard about 10% of all americans are left handed

so he hates 10% of his own country?

-------------------

since youre having trouble saying my name,..ill break it down to help you

say it with me:
Kerr-shin-sit-ten-bach

--------------------

well, so what, youre left handed, how is that an obstacle in other people living their lives,
I know i have met people who are left handed but since i dont consider it to be a remarkable trait i just shrug it off
Hell i was left handed up til teenage when i began trying to use my right hand, then suddenly went total right hand, but i still wear my watch on my right just like a lefty

last i heard about 10% of all americans are left handed

so he hates 10% of his own country?
Doesn't everybody? :confused:

well, being born an east german, i dislike the west for it being a long-term democratic hell, at least we east-siders have only had the last 15 years of that crap democracy, so we have a higher count of good morals, order and commomn sense

Much as the Stasi were a pain in the ass, at least we had order

last i heard about 10% of all americans are left handed

so he hates 10% of his own country?

-------------------

since youre having trouble saying my name,..ill break it down to help you

say it with me:
Kerr-shin-sit-ten-bach

--------------------

well, so what, youre left handed, how is that an obstacle in other people living their lives,
I know i have met people who are left handed but since i dont consider it to be a remarkable trait i just shrug it off
Hell i was left handed up til teenage when i began trying to use my right hand, then suddenly went total right hand, but i still wear my watch on my right just like a lefty

Er... you realize I wasn't being serious, right? I mean, Lefties already have the right to vote, and after comparing my people to the Jews I actually said that United Beleriand would help me campaign for equal rights.

I mean, that's like going to Dr. Mengele for your physical.

It was an institution linked with the "settler" movement. If it was a Palestinian institution linked with Hamas/Hezbollah we'd be hearing about how they hide behind civillians and its all their own fault.

It was a school. A school in which many of today's settler movement leaders were, but still a school.

When we here say "institutions linked with Hamas/Hezbollah" we mean offices, weapon warehouses, rocket manufacturing structures and command centers, we mean buildings they run and hide after launching ten 122mm rockets at Haifa - We don't mean schools, where young people come to study.

My field of interest is north up in the german-soviet landspace
I'm so sorry. It looks like the news never reached you.

The war is over. You can go home now.

When we here say "institutions linked with Hamas/Hezbollah" we mean offices, weapon warehouses, rocket manufacturing structures and command centers,

..apartment blocks, houses..

Analysis: seminary attack highlights Jerusalem's vulnerability (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article3507209.ece)

It turns out the gunman was not a Palestinian, but an Arab Israeli:

Alaa Abu Dheim, the seminary gunman, is a resident of Israeli-controlled East Jerusalem, showing that the controversial security fence meant to segregate Israelis from Palestinians on the West Bank is no protection against a determined enemy.

Turning the Palestinian Occupied Territories into a giant ghetto reservation apparently isn't working when it comes to fighting terrorism.

Also, in before NM, Myrmi, TAI, Zilam and the rest of the usual suspects start ranting about how Arab Israelis need to be stripped of their citizenship and deported to the West Bank.

As oppossed to removing all troops and settlements from Arab East Jerusalem and the West Bank. Then go build the wall.

8 people die in Israel, and we have a monumental tragedy.

Many more die in OT, and we have business as usual.

Like I said earlier, when Israelis are killed it's a tragedy, but when Palestinians are killed it's pest control.

Story (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7282269.stm)



Thoughts?

8 people die in Israel, and we have a monumental tragedy.

Many more die in OT, and we have business as usual.

8 people die in Israel, and we have a monumental tragedy.

Many more die in OT, and we have business as usual.

It is a tragedy. But so's the situation in the Occupied Territories...

The humanitarian situation in Gaza is worse now than it's been at any time since the beginning of the Israeli occupation in 1967, according to a new report published today (6 March) by a coalition of leading humanitarian and human rights organisations. The weekend's upsurge in violence and human misery underlines the urgency of this report.

In their new joint report, the coalition - comprising Amnesty International, CARE International UK, CAFOD, Christian Aid, Médecins du Monde UK, Oxfam, Save The Children UK and Trócaire - warns that Israel's blockade of Gaza is a collective punishment of the entire Gazan civilian population of 1.5 million. The report concludes that the Israeli government's policy of blockade is unacceptable, illegal and fails to deliver security for Palestinians and Israelis alike.
http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=17689

Palestine was never British turf. It has been inhabited by Arabs since the early middle ages. After the downfall of the Ottoman Empire Britain was only asked to administer Palestine on behalf of its inhabitants. The Arabs of Palestine were never asked and their wishes were never considered. And letting Jews into Palestine en masse was a violation of the Palestinian Arabs' natural right to self-determination. They were ruled over by the British as if they were one of their colonies. And when the UN set up the division plan because of constant Jewish aggression they again did not ask the Palestinian Arabs but decided over their heads.
Out of curiosity, where will you stand when all of the original Palestinian inhabitants of present day Israel are long since dead? Say, in about 50-100 years. Because obviously there has to be some kind of time limit on things, otherwise things would get pretty ridiculous.

It is a tragedy. But so's the situation in the Occupied Territories...


http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=17689

I for recognize that it is a horrible thing, however, I can put it in perspective.

Things such as this happen far less frequently in Israel than they do in the OT. However, the media, and most people, don't seem to realize this.

I oppose this double standard, but I certainly am not trying to make the deaths of these Israelis any less.

There's something you should know about your "wise" Dyakovo, Kiche--Kirce--Ke--Er...Bach. He's a handist.

LOL

*waves to Geniasis*
*with left hand*

LOL

*waves to Geniasis*
*with left hand*

*waves back*

*waves back*

With which hand though? hmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

My left hand, you facist pig!
*nails Geniasis's left hand to wall*
Yeah, would you like some ice for that burrrnnnn!?

Yes, please :p

With which hand though? hmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

My left hand, you facist pig!

Yeah, would you like some ice for that burrrnnnn!?

United Beleriand, I might have let these pass as understandable in the heat of an argument, despite their flamebaiting (my emphases) --
Palestinians do not occupy anybody else's homeland. Israelis do. So shut the fuck up. The guilt lies with the occupier alone. If there were no occupation there would be no retaliation. It is that simple.
if that were true they'd give up the settlement extension and occupation of the West Bank at once. but they don't and subsequently you are a liar.
But not this: And when it hits religious Jews as pictured, there is no reason for sadness.
And definitely not this:No, it's an improvement of humankind.

Take three days off for repeated trolling and flamebaiting.
Anyone gloating over this can expect the same treatment.

Seriously, folks, I think some of you should look at the way you seem to be pushing other posters into little boxes in your heads, then hating the boxes you've built, forgetting that the real people probably don't fit in them. Labelling groups is one of the ways people deal with complexity, but remember individuals, m'kay?
When Israelis die it's a tragedy, but when Palestinians die it's pest control.
Note, this is not the same thing as United Beleriand's post. It's sarcasm, used effectively. Most posters will have realised that. This line is for those who didn't.

Knights of Liberty, Non Aligned States, New Mitanni, please check your TGs.


Besides, generalizations are bad for your health.
Heed the words of this aged, ironic sage.

BTW, the efforts of those who've been trying to lighten the thread are appreciated, but you can stop spamming now, k?tks.

What I don't understand is this: Palestinian terrorism exist since what ? near 40 years, in the modern form.
More like 90 years, actually.

United Beleriand, I might have let these pass as understandable in the heat of an argument, despite their flamebaiting (my emphases) --


But not this:
And definitely not this:

Take three days off for repeated trolling and flamebaiting.
Anyone gloating over this can expect the same treatment.

Seriously, folks, I think some of you should look at the way you seem to be pushing other posters into little boxes in your heads, then hating the boxes you've built, forgetting that the real people probably don't fit in them. Labelling groups is one of the ways people deal with complexity, but remember individuals, m'kay?

Note, this is not the same thing as United Beleriand's post. It's sarcasm, used effectively. Most posters will have realised that. This line is for those who didn't.

Knights of Liberty, Non Aligned States, New Mitanni, please check your TGs.


Heed the words of this aged, ironic sage.

BTW, the efforts of those who've been trying to lighten the thread are appreciated, but you can stop spamming now, k?tks.

So you are forcing me to not think that this is good riddance, or to not express it?

So you are forcing me to not think that this is good riddance, or to not express it?

Your question would probably stand a larger chance of being answered if you posed it in Moderation.