NationStates Jolt Archive

Nagorno Karabahk like kosovo has declared independence. But unlike Kosovo, USA refuses recognition of Karabahk which has been independent for over 10 years.
For most of history Karabahk was independent state. In 1805 it was annexed by Tsar of all the Russians when the small nation surrendered its soverignty. In 1813, this was made formal with the treaty of Gulistan between Russia and Persia which ended first Russo-Persian war in which Persia lost big time. In 1828, to quash ethnic desire for independence and self determination, Karabahk was dissolved and assimilated into Elisabethpol Governate within the Russian Empire. But Karabahkian continued to aspire to regain their independence. Russia kicked out many muslims and incited Armenians to relocate from Persia to Karabahk.

Under Stalin, 1917, Karabahk was brutally suppressed and forced into new Transcaucasion Soviet Socialist Republic which disintegrated due to ethnic differences.
Karabahk, despite its Armenian population was forced to join with Azerbaijan in the 1920's after break up of Transcaucasia. In 1918 and 1920 Karabahk, backed by Armenia, fought for reseperation from Azerbaijan. They wanted to be a seperate republic within Soviet Union just as Kosovo wanted to be seperate Republic within Yugoslavia. In 1918, the first council of Karabahk declared the region to be self governing and autonomous of Azerbaijan.
During WWI, Ottoman armies enter Karabahk where only the majority Armenian population stayed and resisted the turkish occupation. After the Ottoman defeat, the British troops occupied Karabahk and joined Russia in oppressing local aspirations for independence. The Brits made decision that Karabahk was to forever remain territory of Azerbaijan regardless of local populations desire for self determination. Because of this, the British were opposed by Karabahk's Armenian majority.
Fearing for their lives, a Karabahk council accepted forced union with Azerbaijan though many Karabahkians continued to fight for indepedence.
In 1920, Azerbaijan was stuck fighting Karabahk rebels and got taken by commies. As result, Karabahk became part of Armenia. But was seized by the Soviet Army which proceeded to committ genocide against Karabahkians. Armenia, at gunpoint, agreed to Soviet occupation of the region. But then Red Army invade and annex Armenia too. Along with Georgia in 1920's. Soviets promised to give Karabahk to Armenia so as to avoid being bogged down in a popular revolt. But, because they wanted to placate Turkey, soviets instead incorporate Karabahk into Azerbaijan. In 1923, Karabahk was made autonomous under Azerbaijan.

With fall of evil Soviet Empire, the Azeris began mass genocide against Karabahkians who again fought for independence in the 1990's with no help from US or UK. In its waning hours, Soviet Union gave Azerbaijan total permission to engage in genocide in the Karabahk. National Council of Karabahk, responded by declaring union with Armenia which went to war with Azerbaijan to stop Azeri genocide against Karabahkians. The US refused to condemn the genocide as have the British and the French and the Germans. In fact some US leaders joined with Russia to endorse the genocide.

In 1991, Karabahk declared full independence resulting in war. Muslim terrorists from Chechnya and Afghanistan fought to help Azerbaijan kill Karabahk's majority Armenian population and drive them from Karabahk in a move of ethnic cleansing. In 1994, Azerbaijan was forced by Karabahk insurgents to recognize that they were no longer in charge of the area and Karabahk became an independent nation in fact, if not in recognition from west which had hoped for Azeri ethnic cleansing to succeed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagorno-Karabakh

Now Azerbaijan wants to reconquer Karabakh and wipe out the majority population there.
President Bush say that Karabahk must rejoin Azerbaijan or suffer bad consequences.
Karabahk has been an independent state, like Taiwan, for over 10 years. Rather than demanding that they agree to be reannexed by a US ally, US and West Europe should accept and recognize Karabahk as an independent state. US and Europe should also condemn Azeri ethnic cleansing which has occured through the whole of the 20th century.

http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-03-05-voa50.cfm

Whatever you say America.

I honestly didn't read your post.

tl;dr...and there are these things called Paragraphs, you should use them.

Ow formatting make eyes bleed.

Moreso the lack thereof.

Combining words forthewin.

fixed

Ow formatting make eyes bleed.

fixed formatting

Yes and no. Yes because they shouldn't play favorites. No because I'm tired of every slightly different group declaring independence for no reason.

It should be noted that Karabahk, unlike Kosovo, already has its own constitution which has been in effect since it beat Azerbaijan in war for independence in first half of 90's.

Karabahk, also unlike Kosovo, already has decent economy.

Karabahk, further, already has its own professional military force, again unlike Kosovo.

official website for Karabahk Ministry of Information, something which Kosovo doesn't seem to have yet.

http://www.nkr.am/eng/

In every form that counts, Karabahk is already independent state except in the form of diplomatic recognition which is blocking it from joining UN.

Let's just annex the Balkans. Maybe then Kosovo will stop complaining and do something. Like assassinate an Archduke or someone.

"every slightly different group" have perfectly good reason. and i'm all for the indipendence of ALL of them. super powers are the idio-economic monopolistic bane of this earth and all need to be split up, the way the old a.t.& t. was.

i just think that along with every former soviet ethnicity, what's good for there, is just as good for everyplace else, and that includes scottland, tibet, hawaii, puerto rico, costa rica, a completely indipendent cyprus not part of greece nor turkey, an indipendent formosa with the u.s. and china both keeping their fat fingers out of it, a reunited korea, indipendent of either of its current governments, american fat fingers out of carribian states and south american internal affairs, and diplomatic recognition of cuba without trying to destabalize or influence its internal affairs either.

hell, that's just the SHORT list. there are probably hundreds of places that rightfully ought to be indipendent and their indipendence recognized.

ought to be. the u.n. ought to have its one planetary federal district too. and its own 'teeth', and do away with that 'security council' concept.

ought to be. there's so much not ought to be about even soverignty as a concept. or the usurpation of indiginous rights by vertually all powerful modern governments.

and i don't mean playing favorites on the basis of idiology or economics.

there's so much not ought to be, that the question of any one would be soverignty, well its a forest for the trees bussiness really.

=^^=
.../\...

With fall of evil Soviet Empire, the Azeris began mass genocide against Karabahkians who again fought for independence in the 1990's with no help from US or UK.I'm sure you've got evidence supporting this somewhere.

Nagorno Karabahk like kosovo has declared independence. But unlike Kosovo, USA refuses recognition of Karabahk which has been independent for over 10 years.
For most of history Karabahk was independent state. In 1805 it was annexed by Tsar of all the Russians when the small nation surrendered its soverignty. In 1813, this was made formal with the treaty of Gulistan between Russia and Persia which ended first Russo-Persian war in which Persia lost big time. In 1828, to quash ethnic desire for independence and self determination, Karabahk was dissolved and assimilated into Elisabethpol Governate within the Russian Empire. But Karabahkian continued to aspire to regain their independence. Russia kicked out many muslims and incited Armenians to relocate from Persia to Karabahk.

Under Stalin, 1917, Karabahk was brutally suppressed and forced into new Transcaucasion Soviet Socialist Republic which disintegrated due to ethnic differences.
Karabahk, despite its Armenian population was forced to join with Azerbaijan in the 1920's after break up of Transcaucasia. In 1918 and 1920 Karabahk, backed by Armenia, fought for reseperation from Azerbaijan. They wanted to be a seperate republic within Soviet Union just as Kosovo wanted to be seperate Republic within Yugoslavia. In 1918, the first council of Karabahk declared the region to be self governing and autonomous of Azerbaijan.
During WWI, Ottoman armies enter Karabahk where only the majority Armenian population stayed and resisted the turkish occupation. After the Ottoman defeat, the British troops occupied Karabahk and joined Russia in oppressing local aspirations for independence. The Brits made decision that Karabahk was to forever remain territory of Azerbaijan regardless of local populations desire for self determination. Because of this, the British were opposed by Karabahk's Armenian majority.
Fearing for their lives, a Karabahk council accepted forced union with Azerbaijan though many Karabahkians continued to fight for indepedence.
In 1920, Azerbaijan was stuck fighting Karabahk rebels and got taken by commies. As result, Karabahk became part of Armenia. But was seized by the Soviet Army which proceeded to committ genocide against Karabahkians. Armenia, at gunpoint, agreed to Soviet occupation of the region. But then Red Army invade and annex Armenia too. Along with Georgia in 1920's. Soviets promised to give Karabahk to Armenia so as to avoid being bogged down in a popular revolt. But, because they wanted to placate Turkey, soviets instead incorporate Karabahk into Azerbaijan. In 1923, Karabahk was made autonomous under Azerbaijan.

With fall of evil Soviet Empire, the Azeris began mass genocide against Karabahkians who again fought for independence in the 1990's with no help from US or UK. In its waning hours, Soviet Union gave Azerbaijan total permission to engage in genocide in the Karabahk. National Council of Karabahk, responded by declaring union with Armenia which went to war with Azerbaijan to stop Azeri genocide against Karabahkians. The US refused to condemn the genocide as have the British and the French and the Germans. In fact some US leaders joined with Russia to endorse the genocide.

In 1991, Karabahk declared full independence resulting in war. Muslim terrorists from Chechnya and Afghanistan fought to help Azerbaijan kill Karabahk's majority Armenian population and drive them from Karabahk in a move of ethnic cleansing. In 1994, Azerbaijan was forced by Karabahk insurgents to recognize that they were no longer in charge of the area and Karabahk became an independent nation in fact, if not in recognition from west which had hoped for Azeri ethnic cleansing to succeed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagorno-Karabakh

Now Azerbaijan wants to reconquer Karabakh and wipe out the majority population there.
President Bush say that Karabahk must rejoin Azerbaijan or suffer bad consequences.
Karabahk has been an independent state, like Taiwan, for over 10 years. Rather than demanding that they agree to be reannexed by a US ally, US and West Europe should accept and recognize Karabahk as an independent state. US and Europe should also condemn Azeri ethnic cleansing which has occured through the whole of the 20th century.

http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-03-05-voa50.cfm

Hmmm. I never heard about them before. Well, I cannot believe that any US officials would be supportive of genocide anywhere. I think that all people should have a homeland. I do not see why we should side against an independence movement as long as the independence movement is democratic and is not out to do nasty stuff like genocide.

:eek: What do you mean you've never heard of them? Where were you in the 90's?

I would expect that well over 90% of the population has never heard of Karabagh.

Kalibak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalibak) should get whatever he wants! He's scary ya know!

Armenia holds a lot of Azeri territory. Despite being outnumbered militarily during that conflict back in the 90's they still handed Azeris ass to them on a silver platter.

"every slightly different group" have perfectly good reason. and i'm all for the indipendence of ALL of them. super powers are the idio-economic monopolistic bane of this earth and all need to be split up, the way the old a.t.& t. was.
You're going too far in the other direction.

Groups that want to be independent and have historical or political claim to their territory need to be allowed to separate. Like Slovenia did. Like Eritrea did. Like Quebec keeps trying to do.

However, if large super-powers want to remain intact, and they contain no areas that uniformly want to separate, I see no reason to break them up. I will not force Vermont to separate.

I'm sure you've got evidence supporting this somewhere.

http://www.cilicia.com/armo19j.html

"December 1977

Protest demonstrations at public events and pleas from Karabagh Armenians charge Azeris with cultural oppression and economic discrimination"

October 1987
"Violence directed by Azerbaijani officials against Armenians in Karabagh"

Jan 1988
"Petition with 100,000 Karabagh Armenians' signatures sent to Moscow asking for referendum to be held in Karabagh on the status of the region"

Feb 1988 Azerbaijan refuses to give up Karabahk
Thousands of Azeris march and engage in mass destruction of Armenian properties.
Moscow begins censoring the press in the region to prevent world from knowing about Azeri ethnic cleansing against Armenians.
Armenians around the world, including in Hollywood and Toronto protest on behalf of the people of Karabahk.

February 26
"attacks on Armenian individuals, homes, and businesses"

By March 11, 300 Armenians were butchered by the Azeris as punishment for Karabahkians wanting to be independent.

http://shusha.aznet.org/karabakh-history.html