NationStates Jolt Archive

It sounds to me like you are an isolationist.

This would explain your dislike of others and sexual contact.

I would recommed you slowly build up around yourself a group of people you like, to ease you into social functions.

For more help I'll need to know:

Gender.

Country or town dweller.

Relationship with family.

How you spend your time.

I feel very depressed around people, but when I am alone I feel...okay, at least. Can anyone tell me why this it?

By the way, if therapy is not your choice of recreation, I will be giving out an award to whom who can insult me the most creatively, using bizarre or archaic vocabulary, or just talking silly.

I know how you feel. When I was a sophomore in college I started suffering from anxiety attacks around people. It became so bad, it started impairing me of going to my classes and doing my work. My mom took me to see a psychiatrist and he diagnosed me with Social Anxiety. I couldn't even go to the mall. I was prescribed with anti-depressants and therapy. He said I had to take pills all my life, but then I decided, after almost a year of treatment, that you have to live with the condition, it won't go away by itself and that medicine isn't always the best thing. But just to be sure, go see a therapist.;)

I feel very depressed around people, but when I am alone I feel...okay, at least. Can anyone tell me why this it?

By the way, if therapy is not your choice of recreation, I will be giving out an award to whom who can insult me the most creatively, using bizarre or archaic vocabulary, or just talking silly.

I feel very depressed around people, but when I am alone I feel...okay, at least. Can anyone tell me why this it?

By the way, if therapy is not your choice of recreation, I will be giving out an award to whom who can insult me the most creatively, using bizarre or archaic vocabulary, or just talking silly.
Join the A-Team.

If you believe you require therapy, I suggest going to find a qualified professional, rather than asking for help on an internet forum. I doubt anyone here is qualified to help you.

Anyway, if people make you depressed, what are you doing on an online social forum? We're people too, you know. ;)

As to make the serious question first...Have you considered the Asperger possibility?

As to light things up...What wargames do you currently play?

It sounds to me like you are an isolationist.

I have been described as a misanthrope.

This would explain your dislike of others and sexual contact.

Yes.

I would recommend you slowly build up around yourself a group of people you like, to ease you into social functions.

I do not have a group of people I like.


For more help I'll need to know:

Gender.

Male.


Country or town dweller.

Residential.

Relationship with family.

Nice folks, if a bit crazy. I mostly communicate with them through jokes.

How you spend your time.

Reading or studying. My more social activities include fencing and wargaming.

I know how you feel. When I was a sophomore in college I started suffering from anxiety attacks around people. It became so bad, it started impairing me of going to my classes and doing my work. My mom took me to see a psychiatrist and he diagnosed me with Social Anxiety. I couldn't even go to the mall. I was prescribed with anti-depressants and therapy. He said I had to take pills all my life, but then I decided, after almost a year of treatment, that you have to live with the condition, it won't go away by itself and that medicine isn't always the best thing. But just to be sure, go see a therapist.;)

I do not become anxious, merely sombre.

I feel very depressed around people, but when I am alone I feel...okay, at least. Can anyone tell me why this it?
Schizoid personality?

If you believe you require therapy, I suggest going to find a qualified professional, rather than asking for help on an internet forum. I doubt anyone here is qualified to help you.

Fass.

Anyway, if people make you depressed, what are you doing on an online social forum? We're people too, you know. ;)

:p Technically.

I have been described as a misanthrope.

Yes.

I do not have a group of people I like.

Male.

Residential.

Nice folks, if a bit crazy. I mostly communicate with them through jokes.

Reading or studying. My more social activities include fencing and wargaming.

But do you match the description? Would You agree with this perception of yourself?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misanthropy

Now I get it.

What about those with whom you Fence? How do you feel about them? Or War Game? I should recommend joining a Reading group as a way of using your interests as part of your therapy. Or A Study Group. This way you will have a topic to discuss with the people around you and you will be more comfortable.

A residential area would suggest Suburban. The very nature of such places suggests that you will not have been exposed to large gatherings of people or become accustomed to gathering out-of-doors.

Well, you have activities which as I've said may help you. Try finding common ground with your relatives. What interests do you have with them?

No.

Could you considered it as a possibility?

The Thirty Years War (GMT Games), The Napoleonic Wars (GMT Games, 2nd edition coming), Machiavelli original (Avalon Hill, Battleline), Conquest of Paradise (GMT Games), Conquest of the Empire (Eagle Games), The Queen's Gambit (Avalon Hill, Hasbro), and Risk.

I also just received Manoeuvre in the mail (GMT Games).

The Machiavelli one is awesome, the only one I have played of all those you described. Well, and Risk, but that one is too common. Have you tried the classic "Diplomacy"? It is good at social interaction, and it is the classic.

Which one would be your favourite?

I think wargaming with groups could help you to see what is wrong with yourself. Do you play those games alone or with people?

As to make the serious question first...Have you considered the Asperger possibility?

No.

As to light things up...What wargames do you currently play?
The Thirty Years War (GMT Games), The Napoleonic Wars (GMT Games, 2nd edition coming), Machiavelli original (Avalon Hill, Battleline), Conquest of Paradise (GMT Games), Conquest of the Empire (Eagle Games), The Queen's Gambit (Avalon Hill, Hasbro), and Risk.

I also just received Manoeuvre in the mail (GMT Games).

I feel very depressed around people, but when I am alone I feel...okay, at least. Can anyone tell me why this it?

By the way, if therapy is not your choice of recreation, I will be giving out an award to whom who can insult me the most creatively, using bizarre or archaic vocabulary, or just talking silly.

could be some form of social anxiety. i had that mixed with double depressive episodes (dysthimia and major depression) at university, and felt that way a lot of the time. i hated being around people and would basically run to get back to my house, and then hide away from my housemates. i still felt depressed and awful when i was alone, but it was preferable to the terrified feeling of being around people.

i'm a bit better now :p
no therapy, just love and support, time, and meds. wouldn't say i'm all better of course, but the social anxiety is largely gone :)

If you believe you require therapy, I suggest going to find a qualified professional, rather than asking for help on an internet forum. I doubt anyone here is qualified to help you.

Anyway, if people make you depressed, what are you doing on an online social forum? We're people too, you know. ;)

Actually, we're disembodied thoughts posted in print on a computer screen. Someone genuinely depressed or spooked about actual people would have no trouble in a place like this. It's more like reacting to a game than reacting to flesh-and-blood people. I completely understand that it might seem like an oxymoron, but it isn't.

I feel very depressed around people, but when I am alone I feel...okay, at least. Can anyone tell me why this it?
Introverted people are more introspective around others than they are when they're alone. When engaged in conversation, we pressurise ourselves into making our contributions as thought-through and insightful as possible. This can be quite emotionally draining, particularly when we're not entirely sure about what's going on in the flow of dialogue. It also means that we frequently find ourselves in topics of conversation that, because we have no personal interest in, we actually can't contribute to at all, since we have no basis on which to judge whether what we might say is worth saying.

Introverted people are more introspective around others than they are when they're alone. When engaged in conversation, we pressurise ourselves into making our contributions as thought-through and insightful as possible. This can be quite emotionally draining, particularly when we're not entirely sure about what's going on in the flow of dialogue. It also means that we frequently find ourselves in topics of conversation that, because we have no personal interest in, we actually can't contribute to at all, since we have no basis on which to judge whether what we might say is worth saying.

Very well put. Spot on.

Could you considered it as a possibility?

If you want me to....

The Machiavelli one is awesome, the only one I have played of all those you described. Well, and Risk, but that one is too common. Have you tried the classic "Diplomacy"? It is good at social interaction, and it is the classic.

Yes. Machiavelli was basically a remake of that game, but with extra rules. The only problem I have with them is that...people get so upset when I lie to, or backstab them. It takes all the fun out of the games. :(


Which one would be your favourite?

The Napoleonic Wars.

I think wargaming with groups could help you to see what is wrong with yourself. Do you play those games alone or with people?

Typically alone (excluding games that only last a third of the way in) . I did manage to play a one-on-one game of Conquest of Paradise with my uncle, once.

If you want me to....

I don't want anything you don't like ;) You asked, I pondered, then gave you a return.

Yes. Machiavelli was basically a remake of that game, but with extra rules. The only problem I have with them is that...people get so upset when I lie to, or backstab them. It takes all the fun out of the games. :(

Yeah, that sucks, but you can also find more mature gamers who are used to that kind of thing.

Typically alone (excluding games that only last a third of the way in) . I did manage to play a one-on-one game of Conquest of Paradise with my uncle, once.

Try more groups, if they are available where you live.

Thou cream-faced loon! Thou base, one-trunk-inheriting knave!

Bad day (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jBWdRMQfjdo) huh?

Well i suppose it happens to alot of people, i find going out drinking helps socialising, but other than that i study and talk to family.

Games as far as i know are an escape route from reality which is nice but i can get so much more done when i don't use a computer, specifically because it sidetracks me onto the internet (like now), and when my friend didn't have the interent (because his provider was messing up, he's got it now) he found he completed course work so much faster, and got alot more done.

I can't give you any good advice because i'm not an expert, but talking to family helps if you're stuck i find.

Any advice for people who would love to run away to a remote hut and live with just 1 other person (female) who would be a perfect compainion and lover.

get rich. failing that leg it out of the country, and make your way as a stowaway in aeroplanes, of course you might turn gay by then or whatever so you might have even more options. *shrugs*

Any advice for people who would love to run away to a remote hut and live with just 1 other person (female) who would be a perfect compainion and lover.

Any advice for people who would love to run away to a remote hut and live with just 1 other person (female) who would be a perfect compainion and lover.
Even if such a person does exist, you're not going to find them or enamour them to you by comparing every woman you find to an ideal and discounting them when they fall short. Let others' merits speak for themselves, be kind and engage with them in everyday life (even if that feels like a fruitless endeavour at times) and you may find the perfect person far more open to revealing themselves to you.

Even if such a person does exist, you're not going to find them or enamour them to you by comparing every woman you find to an ideal and discounting them when they fall short. Let others' merits speak for themselves, be kind and engage with them in everyday life (even if that feels like a fruitless endeavour at times) and you may find the perfect person far more open to revealing themselves to you.

What if you've found a person who falls far short of your Ideal and then you like them?

Then You hate yourself for being stupid.

Then It gets out and escape becomes imperative.

get rich. failing that leg it out of the country, and make your way as a stowaway in aeroplanes, of course you might turn gay by then or whatever so you might have even more options. *shrugs*

Did I mention I've got as far as finding the Hut?

(Google Earth Rules!!!!!!!!!!!)

P.S., sorry for going off topic Parkus.

I feel very depressed around people, but when I am alone I feel...okay, at least. Can anyone tell me why this it?

You have no friends?

You have no friends?

I think he meant to tell him of your experiences etc
I'm not sure he meant a literal explanation, as over the internet literal can be skewed slightly with even one misplaced smiley.

You have no friends?

No.

Any advice for people who would love to run away to a remote hut

Buy an island?

and live with just 1 other person (female) who would be a perfect companion and lover.

I cannot provide assistance in this department.

Thou cream-faced loon! Thou base, one-trunk-inheriting knave!

You might win the award by default.

Okay, so you're anti-social. That's not really a problem. Just spend more time alone.

Problem solved.

1. This is not the place to find a professional opinion, but I'm sure you know that.

2. This is probably not the place I'd talk about my "feelings". Try www.livejournal.com

3. I already know that you need to see someone, and I'd suggest a psychiatrist rather than a psychologist. It can be hard to find someone you like, but at least pscyhiartists approach it from both an psychological and medical perspective, and they are able to prescribe medication.

4. You should also speak to them about your eating disorder.

It sounds to me like you are an isolationist.

This would explain your dislike of others and sexual contact.

I would recommed you slowly build up around yourself a group of people you like, to ease you into social functions.

For more help I'll need to know:

Gender.

Country or town dweller.

Relationship with family.

How you spend your time.

Thanks Dr Phil. :rolleyes:

I feel very depressed around people, but when I am alone I feel...okay, at least. Can anyone tell me why this it?.

You probably have some sort of disorder/mental illness. It's not uncommon.

By the way, if therapy is not your choice of recreation, I will be giving out an award to whom who can insult me the most creatively, using bizarre or archaic vocabulary, or just talking silly

1. You really like attention, it seems.
2. Why are you asking people to insult you? You're either a troll, or you really need to see a mental-health proffessional.

As to make the serious question first...Have you considered the Asperger possibility?


Uh, he really shouldn't be diagnosing himself.

Life is not a DIY episode of House.

But do you match the description? Would You agree with this perception of yourself?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misanthropy

People aren't supposed to diagnose themselves.

Okay, so you're anti-social. That's not really a problem. Just spend more time alone.

Problem solved.

Well, he clearly does have a problem.

*snip

I am sorry...but I think you take life all too seriously. At the point where you said something is wrong with me because I asked people to come-up with creative insults I stopped valuing your opinion.

Nothing against you; you are far saner than I am (no "disorders"), probably far more intelligent, more reasonable, more enjoyable to hang-around with...but you are simply not my type of person.

I am sorry...but I think you take life all too seriously. At the point where you said something is wrong with me because I asked people to come-up with creative insults I stopped valuing your opinion.

Nothing against you; you are far saner than I am (no "disorders"), probably far more intelligent, more reasonable, more enjoyable to hang-around with...but you are simply not my type of person.

aaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

I feel very depressed around people

You say that as if it were a bad thing. Frankly, I'd be worried if people didn't depress you. I can't stomach most of them.

Missing the EMACS 'doctor', huh?
http://www.linuxjournal.com/files/linuxjournal.com/linuxjournal/articles/048/4889/4889f1.png

You say that as if it were a bad thing. Frankly, I'd be worried if people didn't depress you. I can't stomach most of them.

what do people taste like?:confused:

what do people taste like?:confused:

Not too bad, actually, with the right seasonings.

*runs*

Not too bad, actually, with the right seasonings.

*runs*
"Hey come back here!
What sort of seasonings do they need?
There's people who can help you with your condition!" {shouts}
hmmm soy sauce ala beer belly yum.
Ostrich. Poultry, but red meat. Well, that's my guess anyway. When I get my shipment of Girl Scout cookies, I'll let you know.

you have meat in your cookies?
ships of meat cookies?
Cookies?
Food...yes need nourishment, must eat.....er what's the next line? something about brains, and eating them.

Well I can't really offer professional advice but I can raise your happiness:

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/anti_mind_virus.png

I feel very depressed around people, but when I am alone I feel...okay, at least. Can anyone tell me why this it?

By the way, if therapy is not your choice of recreation, I will be giving out an award to whom who can insult me the most creatively, using bizarre or archaic vocabulary, or just talking silly.

Please, please consult a medical professional rather than rely on these forums.

It may be there are simple explanations for your problems or they may just be the typical shit everyone has to deal with, BUT you could have any number of medical conditions that can be helped with treatment.

what do people taste like?:confused:

Ostrich. Poultry, but red meat. Well, that's my guess anyway. When I get my shipment of Girl Scout cookies, I'll let you know.

Well, he clearly does have a problem.
If he doesn't like being around people, that's only a problem if he insists on trying to be around people.

If you don't like hot weather, don't live in Florida.

If you don't enjoy eating cheesecake, don't order it.

These aren't difficult problems. The relevant issues only arise under avoidable circumstances. As such, I suggest avoiding those.

If he doesn't like being around people, that's only a problem if he insists on trying to be around people.

If you don't like hot weather, don't live in Florida.

If you don't enjoy eating cheesecake, don't order it.

These aren't difficult problems. The relevant issues only arise under avoidable circumstances. As such, I suggest avoiding those.

Saying you don't like being around people is like saying you don't like being in temperatures between -20 and 50 Celsius i.e. generally not possible to avoid and probably detrimental to do so.

And even if you insist it is not a 'problem' as such, he has already said it is for him, and should seek appropriate action to help it.

Saying you don't like being around people is like saying you don't like being in temperatures between -20 and 50 Celsius i.e. generally not possible to avoid and probably detrimental to do so.

And even if you insist it is not a 'problem' as such, he has already said it is for him, and should seek appropriate action to help it.
he might not have much experience with anti-social behaviour. If you've only ever known people who really enjoy being around other people, you simply might not have developed the skills necessary to escape those situations and be alone all the time.

I'm alone all the time, but I was raised primarily by books, so I'm used to it.

Wear Clown Makeup (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7274825.stm)

No.

I suggest you get some. Even one or two people who you can talk to, go places with, enjoy being around, etc.. sure come in handy. I myself am not actively social, so I have only a few friends, but I seem to be fine with that. Still sane and all. Assuming that you are anti-social, try to work up in small steps, starting at what I call 'passively social'. You don't need to actively go out around town befriending people off the street, but if a social situation does arise, make the most of it.

I don't know about therapy, never having had it, but you could always give it a try. It probably has more to do with actually wanting to accomplish something, than how you go about it.

Assuming that you are anti-social, try to work up in small steps, starting at what I call 'passively social'. You don't need to actively go out around town befriending people off the street, but if a social situation does arise, make the most of it.
Or, he could just accept that he's anti-social and stop subjecting himself to unpleasant social situations entirely.

Anti-social isn't a bad thing.

Or, he could just accept that he's anti-social and stop subjecting himself to unpleasant social situations entirely.

Anti-social isn't a bad thing.

Apart from the minor point that one has to rely on other members of the species for survival, yeah, it's not a bad thing.

Or, he could just accept that he's anti-social and stop subjecting himself to unpleasant social situations entirely.

Anti-social isn't a bad thing.

He feels depressed around people. This will definitely affect him throughout his whole life, unless he becomes a hermit and lives entirely on his own. Working with people, interacting, is a fact of life today. Nigh unavoidable.

You might win the award by default.
What do I get? A clown makeup kit?

He feels depressed around people. This will definitely affect him throughout his whole life, unless he becomes a hermit and lives entirely on his own. Working with people, interacting, is a fact of life today. Nigh unavoidable.
He has no trouble interacting with us in writing - that's all he needs.

I work at a database architect for an international charity. I never need to meet with people face to face; I receive instructions and distribute information exclusively in writing. I walk to work (and thus avoid the social pressure of mass transit or rush hour traffic).

I have one friend with whom I get along and around whom I feel comfortable. He works irregular hours, and he has other friends, so I see him maybe once a month.

Or, he could just accept that he's anti-social and stop subjecting himself to unpleasant social situations entirely.

Anti-social isn't a bad thing.

Says you. However, this wouldn't be the opinion of the vast majority of the human population. Let's allow him to decide.

Says you. However, this wouldn't be the opinion of the vast majority of the human population. Let's allow him to decide.
The vast majority of the human population is social. People often oppress those they view as different.

The vast majority of the human population is social. People often oppress those they view as different.

No one was suggesting he be forced to interact with others, but that interacting might be a positive experience in the long term, even if it was a struggle in the short-term. I feel you are making some assumptions about what he wants: he never stated that doesn't want to interact with others, just that he currently feels uncomfortable doing so. To me, the existence of this thread points to his desire to overcome his fear of social interaction, but, equally, he could feel like society is pushing him to be sociable to be 'normal', which I would discourage.

The vast majority of the human population is social. People often oppress those they view as different.

Exactly. A good reason not to simply give-in to a disorder that may be the reason one is anti-social.

Or does my agoraphobia mean I'm oppressed by those who want me to leave my house?

Or does my agoraphobia mean I'm oppressed by those who want me to leave my house?
Yes. If you don't want to leave your house - if it makes you uncomfortable - who are we to tell you to do it?

If you believe you require therapy, I suggest going to find a qualified professional, rather than asking for help on an internet forum. I doubt anyone here is qualified to help you.

Anyway, if people make you depressed, what are you doing on an online social forum? We're people too, you know. ;)

Liar, how dare you say that?!? :D

Fass.

Fass isn't a doctor yet, and from what I can tell is going to be a medical doctor, not a psychologist/psychiatrist, so no.

You might win the award by default.

I don't think so, Thou fusty swag-bellied mumble-news!

what do people taste like?:confused:

Chicken

Yes. If you don't want to leave your house - if it makes you uncomfortable - who are we to tell you to do it?

And if he will die if he does not leave the house for essential supplies? Actions taken by others will be for his own welfare, but, of course, where you draw the line of what is good for him and where you are unnecessarily interfering is blurred at best. I would say that, if such a disorder can be helped by therapy or other treatment, and the person is willing (or requires it in the case of severe depression), they should be helped even if such a path will be a struggle.

Chicken

ROFL!
I thought people tasted like pork or duck...:D

ROFL!
I thought people tasted like pork or duck...:D

Nah, everything tastes like chicken...
















































Even dead babies;)

And I am sure Fass will agree that a competent medical professional wouldn't seek to treat someone based purely on a few NSG posts.

I'm certain of that as well, since he has said as much before.

Yes. If you don't want to leave your house - if it makes you uncomfortable - who are we to tell you to do it?

You seem to be fundamentally confusing disordered desires from what one really wants.

I DON'T WANT to be agoraphobic. I'm doing my best to fight it. Not because someone else tells me I should, but because that is what I WANT.

If treatment can help me be happier and more productive, why on earth would you counsel against it?

Fass isn't a doctor yet, and from what I can tell is going to be a medical doctor, not a psychologist/psychiatrist, so no.

And I am sure Fass will agree that a competent medical professional wouldn't seek to treat someone based purely on a few NSG posts.

Nah, everything tastes like chicken...
















































Even dead babies;)

Everyone does? Even tha babiez!!:eek: Wow. I gotta take a bite off my arm to taste!:D

I find its best to test on other people (with a bottle of teriyaki sauce handy).

Does soy sauce works too? I like soy better.

Everyone does? Even tha babiez!!:eek: Wow. I gotta take a bite off my arm to taste!:D

I find its best to test on other people (with a bottle of teriyaki sauce handy).

What do I get? A clown makeup kit?

The Congressional Medal of Bumpkins.

I don't think so, Thou fusty swag-bellied mumble-news!

Oh, dear. It appears we have second competitor, ladies and gentlemen!

Fass isn't a doctor yet, and from what I can tell is going to be a medical doctor, not a psychologist/psychiatrist, so no.

I still respect his opinion on this; he does not, let us say, add icing to his words.

Oh, dear. It appears we have second competitor, ladies and gentlemen!

Hmph.. that mewling full-gorged harpy..

Oh, dear. It appears we have second competitor, ladies and gentlemen!

Indeed, thou fawning doghearted death-token!
:)

I am sorry...but I think you take life all too seriously. At the point where you said something is wrong with me because I asked people to come-up with creative insults I stopped valuing your opinion.

You're the one that stated that you need therapy, so you think there's something wrong with you too.

I don't particularly care if you value my opinion, but this is a public forum, and I'll reply if I want.

Nothing against you; you are far saner than I am (no "disorders"), probably far more intelligent, more reasonable, more enjoyable to hang-around with...but you are simply not my type of person.

Actually, I have battled several disorders. That is why I know what I'm talking about.

And, if it hasn't already clicked, I strongly dislike you too.

If he doesn't like being around people, that's only a problem if he insists on trying to be around people.

If you don't like hot weather, don't live in Florida.

If you don't enjoy eating cheesecake, don't order it.

These aren't difficult problems. The relevant issues only arise under avoidable circumstances. As such, I suggest avoiding those.

Uhh, no.

He even thinks there's something wrong with him.

I feel very depressed around people, but when I am alone I feel...okay, at least. Can anyone tell me why this it?

By the way, if therapy is not your choice of recreation, I will be giving out an award to whom who can insult me the most creatively, using bizarre or archaic vocabulary, or just talking silly.

I haven't read the whole thread, so maybe someone else who took a bunch of psych classes has said this, but. One of the main things to consider--in fact, one of the main points in the DSM, which few people ever mention--is the degree to which your "condition", for lack of a better term, affects your life. What impact do your feelings about other people have on your career or schoolwork, your personal life, your family life, your social life? And what degree of unhappiness does this affect provoke in you?

Some people are socially awkward, avoidant or anxious and it causes them a great deal of distress, because they would like to engage in the outside world, but don't know how or are afraid. If this is true for you, it's definitely something you should work at (with the help of a good therapist). However, if you are truly happy with the current state of your life and your lack of social connection does not distress you, it's not necessarily something you have to "fix".

Schizoid personality?

First thing I thought of too: "They're alone and they like it that way."

could be some form of social anxiety. i had that mixed with double depressive episodes (dysthimia and major depression) at university, and felt that way a lot of the time. i hated being around people and would basically run to get back to my house, and then hide away from my housemates. i still felt depressed and awful when i was alone, but it was preferable to the terrified feeling of being around people.

This describes my first year at uni too (although I was diagnosed with dysthymia in high school). I think it's not uncommon in such circumstances--would be interesting to know if the OP was away at school.

Actually, we're disembodied thoughts posted in print on a computer screen. Someone genuinely depressed or spooked about actual people would have no trouble in a place like this. It's more like reacting to a game than reacting to flesh-and-blood people. I completely understand that it might seem like an oxymoron, but it isn't.

Completely agree. At the height of my depression I rarely went out and went to class sporadically, but I would stay up until all hours of the night on FFN reading stories and talking to people online because it was both less frightening and less exhausting than "real" socialization.

Introverted people are more introspective around others than they are when they're alone. When engaged in conversation, we pressurise ourselves into making our contributions as thought-through and insightful as possible.

Well said.

3. I already know that you need to see someone, and I'd suggest a psychiatrist rather than a psychologist. It can be hard to find someone you like, but at least pscyhiartists approach it from both an psychological and medical perspective, and they are able to prescribe medication.

I disagree. Many psychologists practice from a scientific point of view and have a greater ability to form a human connection with the patient, something from which someone in the OP's case would really benefit. I certainly believe in medication--god, yes!--but psychiatrists most often make prescriptions their primary concern, like a surgeon makes surgery her/his primary concern--even if there are other ways to treat the disease. A psychologist who believed the OP had a diagnosis or issues that would benefit from medication would refer him to a psychiatrist anyway.

Missing the EMACS 'doctor', huh?
http://www.linuxjournal.com/files/linuxjournal.com/linuxjournal/articles/048/4889/4889f1.png

Whoooa, I totally remember a program like that? in DOS when I was, like, 7.

I disagree. Many psychologists practice from a scientific point of view and have a greater ability to form a human connection with the patient, something from which someone in the OP's case would really benefit. I certainly believe in medication--god, yes!--but psychiatrists most often make prescriptions their primary concern, like a surgeon makes surgery her/his primary concern--even if there are other ways to treat the disease. A psychologist who believed the OP had a diagnosis or issues that would benefit from medication would refer him to a psychiatrist anyway.



No, bad psychiatrists make medication their primary concern. A psychiatrist's job is not purely to prescribe medication. Many psychologists do not refer their patients to psychiatrists. I was purely stating my recommendation - which is to see a psychiartist so that it can be looked at from both a medical and mental/emotional point of view - and I have plenty of experience to back that opinion.

Perhaps the best option would to ask his GP who he should see first.

Well I can't really offer professional advice but I can raise your happiness:

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/anti_mind_virus.png

You bastard! You made me lose the game! I've been losing it an awful lot since actually finding out what it is yesterday.

Some people are socially awkward, avoidant or anxious and it causes them a great deal of distress, because they would like to engage in the outside world, but don't know how or are afraid.

*raises hand*

Although if I'm with my friends my very fast and/or loud yelling would probably throw you off ;)

You're the one that stated that you need therapy, so you think there's something wrong with you too.

I don't particularly care if you value my opinion, but this is a public forum, and I'll reply if I want.

Absolutely. I am flattered that you did; I am merely saying that if you consider an enjoyment of creative insults to be a disorder, then I think you are over-reacting.

Actually, I have battled several disorders. That is why I know what I'm talking about.

Well, if you had any they are clearly gone now. You are so mentally straight it makes me sad.

And, if it hasn't already clicked, I strongly dislike you too.


I think the fact that you do not "try" to like me is one of the reasons I respect you (though I still think you are over-reacting).

Uhh, no.

He even thinks there's something wrong with him.

I know there is. ;)

I haven't read the whole thread, so maybe someone else who took a bunch of psych classes has said this, but. One of the main things to consider--in fact, one of the main points in the DSM, which few people ever mention--is the degree to which your "condition", for lack of a better term, affects your life. What impact do your feelings about other people have on your career or schoolwork, your personal life, your family life, your social life?

No effect.

And what degree of unhappiness does this affect provoke in you?

Not exactly suicidal (you all should be so lucky :D). Still, when I feel it I could not care less if I died.

Some people are socially awkward, avoidant or anxious and it causes them a great deal of distress, because they would like to engage in the outside world, but don't know how or are afraid.

This is wrong. I have an easy time getting along with people (though they like to point-out how glum I look), and I have been told by more then a few that I am a great conversationalist. As for a desire, I really do not have much of one.

If this is true for you, it's definitely something you should work at (with the help of a good therapist). However, if you are truly happy with the current state of your life

Not unhappy.

and your lack of social connection does not distress you, it's not necessarily something you have to "fix".

Perhaps.

You seem to be fundamentally confusing disordered desires from what one really wants.
Are the two materially different? Can anyone really tell?
I DON'T WANT to be agoraphobic. I'm doing my best to fight it. Not because someone else tells me I should, but because that is what I WANT.

If treatment can help me be happier and more productive, why on earth would you counsel against it?
I haven't. But I also wouldn't be so bold as to tell you to seek out treatment. Should you not mind agoraphobia, you should be allowed to be agoraphobic. It's not my place to tell you your preferences are unacceptable.

That's your job. Not mine.

And if he will die if he does not leave the house for essential supplies? Actions taken by others will be for his own welfare, but, of course, where you draw the line of what is good for him and where you are unnecessarily interfering is blurred at best. I would say that, if such a disorder can be helped by therapy or other treatment, and the person is willing (or requires it in the case of severe depression), they should be helped even if such a path will be a struggle.
You are always the best judge of what is in your best interests. If he would rather die than leave his house, who am I to question that?

Indeed, thou fawning doghearted death-token!
:)Ha! Doth such a dismal-dreaming naught-betokenning flapdragon think to rightly insult such an addlepated codpiece sniffer as Parkus?

You are always the best judge of what is in your best interests. If he would rather die than leave his house, who am I to question that?

It depends whether he is mentally stable or not. Someone who has serious mental disorders cannot be said to always have their best interests in mind in how they act. A stable and rational person can choose to die, an unstable and irrational one's mind cannot be trusted and they should be protect from themselves and what they may do to others.

That said, I think in the case of agoraphobia, basic survival instinct would override any fears if it came down to leaving the house to get supplies or dying.

But if instability is that mind's natural state, why should we work to change it or stop it from acting?

If that instability could cause them to harm themselves or others, I think there's a compelling interest at that point to intervene. Just letting them "work it out for themselves" doesn't work. I've had quite a few friends/partners who have had fairly serious mental issues. I can vouch from experience for the fact that those sort of things don't just fix themselves; nor is there a happy equilibrium one can reach without help.

It depends whether he is mentally stable or not. Someone who has serious mental disorders cannot be said to always have their best interests in mind in how they act. A stable and rational person can choose to die, an unstable and irrational one's mind cannot be trusted and they should be protect from themselves and what they may do to others.
But if instability is that mind's natural state, why should we work to change it or stop it from acting?

But if instability is that mind's natural state, why should we work to change it or stop it from acting?

Do you stand by that statement for every genetic defect or affliction?

But if instability is that mind's natural state, why should we work to change it or stop it from acting?

Um. To save their life, for example?!!

Absolutely. I am flattered that you did; I am merely saying that if you consider an enjoyment of creative insults to be a disorder, then I think you are over-reacting.

I didn't say it was a disorder.

You are literate, right?


Well, if you had any they are clearly gone now. You are so mentally straight it makes me sad.

Uh, no. I see a psychiatrist weekly, and I struggle with mental illness every day of my life. I'm just not a douche.



I think the fact that you do not "try" to like me is one of the reasons I respect you (though I still think you are over-reacting).

You just can't handle the fact that someone is actually addressing the issue without sugar-coating it.

Not exactly suicidal (you all should be so lucky :D). Still, when I feel it I could not care less if I died.

True, thou ruttish half-faced gudgeon!
;)

True, thou ruttish half-faced gudgeon!
;)

Awww, this is so cute! I like this kind of insult. So polite!:D

But if instability is that mind's natural state, why should we work to change it or stop it from acting?

Like I said, if that mind is a danger to themselves and others.

Awww, this is so cute! I like this kind of insult. So polite!:D

Thou cockered fen-sucked vassal!
:D

Thou cockered fen-sucked vassal!
:D

*claps*
Okashī!!:D

*claps*
Okashī!!:D

Thou odiferous full-gorged giglet!

And that doth go doubly for TPE.
:p

Awsome! Keep going.:D

Thou misbegotten full-gorged mumble-news!

Thou odiferous full-gorged giglet!

And that doth go doubly for TPE.
:p

Awsome! Keep going.:D

Thou misbegotten full-gorged mumble-news!

ROFL!

I didn't say it was a disorder.

You are literate, right?

2. Why are you asking people to insult you? You're either a troll, or you really need to see a mental-health professional

Close enough.




Uh, no. I see a psychiatrist weekly, and I struggle with mental illness every day of my life. I'm just not a douche.

What, is about my behavior that irks you? You seem to read egotism into my statements.

By the way, I tried eating more, just for you. I ate a sandwich and two oranges. Then I decided to have more later in the day; two slices of pizza. Ho! But my stomach was honestly full at that point.

Edit: Your insult does not even come close to the prize.


You just can't handle the fact that someone is actually addressing the issue without sugar-coating it.

Hmm, I would tend to disagree, but you know best.

Ye are naught but simpering sallow-bellied putty-straked poltroons, the whole pestiferous lot of you!

Ye are naught but simpering sallow-bellied putty-straked poltroons, the whole pestiferous lot of you!

Be quiet, thou misbegotten rump-fed malt-worm!

Be quiet, thou misbegotten rump-fed malt-worm!
I am not to be squelched by such a vexatious milk-curdling lamprey-spawn!

Dost thou wish to duel to settle this point of honour, thou odiferous fly-bitten vassal?
Joust with such a maggot-riddled pismire-serving jackal? Fie upon it!

I am not to be squelched by such a vexatious milk-curdling lamprey-spawn!

Dost thou wish to duel to settle this point of honour, thou odiferous fly-bitten vassal?

Like I said, if that mind is a danger to themselves and others.
Um. To save their life, for example?!!
Their life may not want saving. Plus, we can't really determine when someone is a danger to themself.

Look at the Heaven's Gate Cult (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven%27s_Gate_%28religious_group%29). They committed mass suicide in 1997 because they had to die in a specific time and place (according to their beliefs) to be picked up by the spaceship hiding behind comet Hale-Bopp.

Given their honest beliefs, they acted in their own best interests. Outsiders (like us) would have had no reason to stop them, because they weren't a danger to themselves. They were acting to advance their own welfare, and they succeeded (as far as we know).

Their life may not want saving. Plus, we can't really determine when someone is a danger to themself.

Look at the Heaven's Gate Cult (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven%27s_Gate_%28religious_group%29). They committed mass suicide in 1997 because they had to die in a specific time and place (according to their beliefs) to be picked up by the spaceship hiding behind comet Hale-Bopp.

Given their honest beliefs, they acted in their own best interests. Outsiders (like us) would have had no reason to stop them, because they weren't a danger to themselves. They were acting to advance their own welfare, and they succeeded (as far as we know).

Reality check: We know that mental illness is a serious risk factor for suicide. Over 90 percent of suicides have a mental illness or substance disorder or both.

But your basic premise that mental illness is just a different "natural" functionality and shouldn't be interfered with fails on multiple grounds.

Not everything that is "natural" is "good." We change things from the "natural" all the time.

We treat other disorders such as diabetes. Should they be left to their "natural" functioning?

Although we could have a discussion about the subject, here we aren't even talking about imposing treatment on someone against their will. You are objecting to people merely suggesting that someone that may have a mental illness seek help.

Like other disorders, mental illness is a burden, not a blessing. Most people with a mental illness want treatment -- or at least don't want to be mentally ill. Your attitude ignores this.

Finally, Heaven's Gate is hardly an example of the merits of suicide.

Close enough.

No, it's not "close enough".

What, is about my behavior that irks you? You seem to read egotism into my statements.

Perhaps because there is egotism in your statements.

By the way, I tried eating more, just for you. I ate a sandwich and two oranges. Then I decided to have more later in the day; two slices of pizza. Ho! But my stomach was honestly full at that point.

That's good.

When you first start eating more, your stomach gets full very easily. Over time your metabolism will adapt and you will start getting hungry at regular intervals, like most people do.

By your own admissions, or by your posts, most of you obviously need therapy, electroshock therapy, and massive amounts of thorazine.

This is how i know you're not a therapist.

By your own admissions, or by your posts, most of you obviously need therapy, electroshock therapy, and massive amounts of thorazine.

Agreed in all respects. I hope Llewdor takes notes of these points, I find his comments thus far rather surprising and misguided.

why do you call yourself extreme ironing?

Reality check: We know that mental illness is a serious risk factor for suicide. Over 90 percent of suicides have a mental illness or substance disorder or both.

But your basic premise that mental illness is just a different "natural" functionality and shouldn't be interfered with fails on multiple grounds.

Not everything that is "natural" is "good." We change things from the "natural" all the time.

We treat other disorders such as diabetes. Should they be left to their "natural" functioning?

Although we could have a discussion about the subject, here we aren't even talking about imposing treatment on someone against their will. You are objecting to people merely suggesting that someone that may have a mental illness seek help.

Like other disorders, mental illness is a burden, not a blessing. Most people with a mental illness want treatment -- or at least don't want to be mentally ill. Your attitude ignores this.

Finally, Heaven's Gate is hardly an example of the merits of suicide.

Agreed in all respects. I hope Llewdor takes notes of these points, I find his comments thus far rather surprising and misguided.

Reality check: We know that mental illness is a serious risk factor for suicide. Over 90 percent of suicides have a mental illness or substance disorder or both.

But your basic premise that mental illness is just a different "natural" functionality and shouldn't be interfered with fails on multiple grounds.

Not everything that is "natural" is "good." We change things from the "natural" all the time.

We treat other disorders such as diabetes. Should they be left to their "natural" functioning?

Although we could have a discussion about the subject, here we aren't even talking about imposing treatment on someone against their will. You are objecting to people merely suggesting that someone that may have a mental illness seek help.

Like other disorders, mental illness is a burden, not a blessing. Most people with a mental illness want treatment -- or at least don't want to be mentally ill. Your attitude ignores this.

Finally, Heaven's Gate is hardly an example of the merits of suicide.

Arsenic is natural. Radioactivity is natural. Mercury is natural. Poison tree frogs are natural. Yet we don't go around demanding to ingest these natural things...

why do you call yourself extreme ironing?

Extreme Ironing (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2176024.stm)

Okay...though I do not see the point to it; I feel fine.

Long-term, eating less than once a day is bad for you.

Thou mammering clay-brained hedge-pig.

No, it's not "close enough".

You are saying I have mental problems....

Perhaps because there is egotism in your statements.


If you say so. I have been trying to kill my ego by going to the mirror and telling myself I am worthless nobody who says redundant things.

That's good.

When you first start eating more, your stomach gets full very easily. Over time your metabolism will adapt and you will start getting hungry at regular intervals, like most people do.

Okay...though I do not see the point to it; I feel fine.

:headbang:
Everyone who´s posted in this thread needs emergency therapy!
:headbang:
And posting this is making me need therapy!
:headbang:
And the :fluffles: are chasing me!
:headbang:

Long-term, eating less than once a day is bad for you.

I typically eat one meal a day, but once or twice a week I fast.

Thou mammering clay-brained hedge-pig.

Another verbiage-spawning jackanapes tests his vituperation abilities. ;)

I typically eat one meal a day, but one or twice a week I fast.


You could feasibly reach the recommended 2,000 calorie range with one meal today, and people do sort of live sedentary lifestyles. Do you? I guess it all depends what you eat really.

At any rate, why not test out your willpower by eating two meals on the days that you normally fast?

I have been trying to kill my ego by going to the mirror and telling myself I am worthless nobody who says redundant things.Using one ego function to oppose another? Leaves you with two issues instead of one.

A better idea would be to stop making any kind of value judgment regarding yourself whatsoever; it's just subjective gibberish anyway. It doesn't matter if you praise or condemn yourself; two sides of the same ego-coin. Two brands of crap, both smelly. Cut the crap.

I get crowd fatigue real easily -- among other kinds of fatigue.

I lack any sort of stamina, truth be told.

I get crowd fatigue real easily -- among other kinds of fatigue.

I lack any sort of stamina, truth be told.

Wow, that´s serious. Like, if you get surrounded by a crowd, you´re physically affected?

You could feasibly reach the recommended 2,000 calorie range with one meal today, and people do sort of live sedentary lifestyles. Do you? I guess it all depends what you eat really.

I am inactive, except when I fence. I fence (and drill) for a couple of hours at least three days out of the week.

At any rate, why not test out your willpower by eating two meals on the days that you normally fast?

Because I would not enjoy it.

Using one ego function to oppose another? Leaves you with two issues instead of one.

A better idea would be to stop making any kind of value judgment regarding yourself whatsoever; it's just subjective gibberish anyway. It doesn't matter if you praise or condemn yourself; two sides of the same ego-coin. Two brands of crap, both smelly. Cut the crap.

I would not be telling myself I was worthless if AP did not tell me I was so arrogant. :(

Though, I honestly cannot see it hurting anything.

I would not be telling myself I was worthless if AP did not tell me I was so arrogant. :(

Though, I honestly cannot see it hurting anything.

First, would you and AP please back off? AP was just trying to help, TPE. AP, TPE was crying out for help -- cut him some slack, OK?

Second, TPE, you are not worthless. You are an intelligent and sensitive human being -- and that is just judging you from your posts in these Forums.

It does sound like you could use some treatment or counseling, however. Please seek some professional help. Such help has saved my life, many times over.

You are saying I have mental problems....

1. You're the one who said you need therapy. It's the title of the thread, remember?

2. I personally feel that you have mental problems, yes, but I didn't say that you have a "disorder" because you asked people to insult you.

Asking people to insult you is strange, and probably not particularly "healthy". However, in no way did I say that it was a disorder. I would never, ever, make mental disorders seem as trivial as that.



If you say so. I have been trying to kill my ego by going to the mirror and telling myself I am worthless nobody who says redundant things.

Even if you're kidding, you're saying negative things about yourself. That's not healthy.



Anyway, I'm not going to bother continuing this dicussion.

Asking people to insult you is strange, and probably not particularly "healthy". However, in no way did I say that it was a disorder. I would never, ever, make mental disorders seem as trivial as that.

In his defense on the insulting thing...
I will be giving out an award to whom who can insult me the most creatively, using bizarre or archaic vocabulary, or just talking silly.
He was asking for creative/archaic/silly insults, which can be rather amusing, I think, thou beslubbering bat-fowling bum-bailey. ;)

I get crowd fatigue real easily -- among other kinds of fatigue.

I think crowd fatigue is one of those diseases that people in rich countries with nothing important to worry about get. Nobody in Ethiopia is lactose intolerant.

I think crowd fatigue is one of those diseases that people in rich countries with nothing important to worry about get. Nobody in Ethiopia is lactose intolerant.

Or at least they have other things to complain about.

Maybe we could all club together and start a therapy fund.

I think crowd fatigue is one of those diseases that people in rich countries with nothing important to worry about get. Nobody in Ethiopia is lactose intolerant.

It is always easy for those that don't have a disorder to dismiss it as trivial or non-existent.

Do you think diabetes is a rich person's disease too?

Agreed in all respects. I hope Llewdor takes notes of these points, I find his comments thus far rather surprising and misguided.
Surprising? Did you have some contrary expectation?
Reality check: We know that mental illness is a serious risk factor for suicide. Over 90 percent of suicides have a mental illness or substance disorder or both.
Okay. However, since suicidal thoughts are a diagnostic tool, isn't there selection bias inherent in any such measurement?

Also, how do we draw the line between mental illness and idiosyncrasy?
But your basic premise that mental illness is just a different "natural" functionality and shouldn't be interfered with fails on multiple grounds.

Not everything that is "natural" is "good." We change things from the "natural" all the time.
Nor did I claim that all natural things are good. In fact, I've argued in the past that all things that exist are necessarily natural.

But forcing people to think or behave in a way they wouldn't have otherwise done strikes me a an unreasonable limit on personal freedom.
We treat other disorders such as diabetes. Should they be left to their "natural" functioning?
We treat those disorders with the willing participation of the patient. Note that we do not treat diabetes in patients who ask us not to.

Patients of physical disorders are allowed to refuse treatment. Why are those with mental "disorders" not granted the same privilege?
Although we could have a discussion about the subject, here we aren't even talking about imposing treatment on someone against their will. You are objecting to people merely suggesting that someone that may have a mental illness seek help.
And I'm simply making the alternative known. Just because people think you have a mental illness doesn't mean there's anything necessarily wrong with you. You might be able to be perfectly happy simply by living your life as you choose, regardless of how strange or unwell that might make you appear.
Like other disorders, mental illness is a burden, not a blessing. Most people with a mental illness want treatment -- or at least don't want to be mentally ill. Your attitude ignores this.
Not at all. Your attitude ignores the possibility that some mentally ill people don't want or need treatment.

I've known multiple schizophrenics (4, actually) who would rather not be psychotic, but would choose delusions over the side-effects of anti-psychotic drugs.
Finally, Heaven's Gate is hardly an example of the merits of suicide.
Heaven's Gate is the perfect example. Given the beliefs, values, and goals of the cult members, mass suicide was the optimal course of action for them. They could not have acted better.

Okay. However, since suicidal thoughts are a diagnostic tool, isn't there selection bias inherent in any such measurement?

:rolleyes: I not only noted the number of suicides that have disorders -- which can't be diagnosed on the basis of suicidal thoughts alone -- but I also noted that mental illness is a significant risk factor for suicide. Do we really need to argue the point?

Also, how do we draw the line between mental illness and idiosyncrasy??

"We" don't. Professionals using the DSM-IV can, however.

But forcing people to think or behave in a way they wouldn't have otherwise done strikes me a an unreasonable limit on personal freedom.

We treat those disorders with the willing participation of the patient. Note that we do not treat diabetes in patients who ask us not to.

Patients of physical disorders are allowed to refuse treatment. Why are those with mental "disorders" not granted the same privilege?

And I'm simply making the alternative known. Just because people think you have a mental illness doesn't mean there's anything necessarily wrong with you. You might be able to be perfectly happy simply by living your life as you choose, regardless of how strange or unwell that might make you appear.

Not at all. Your attitude ignores the possibility that some mentally ill people don't want or need treatment.

I've known multiple schizophrenics (4, actually) who would rather not be psychotic, but would choose delusions over the side-effects of anti-psychotic drugs.

Suddenly you've gone from people suggesting that someone who thinks he may need therapy and appears to have problems with his life should get professional help to "forcing" those who think differently to undergo treatment.

My attitude recognizes that someone may make the informed choice not to accept a particular treatment. Your attitude appears to be that one should simply be unconcerned about symptoms of mental illness and should not seek help despite unhappiness.

Really, you are doing the OP a disservice by arguing that he just shouldn't worry about his problems.

Surprising? Did you have some contrary expectation?

I didn't expect anyone to advocate that psychotic behaviour, that could endanger themselves and others, is a normal part of a person with an unstable mind and thus should not be treated.

Really, you are doing the OP a disservice by arguing that he just shouldn't worry about his problems.
I didn't tell him not to worry. I just offered the possibility that he could improve his life dramatically simply by ignoring those around him who wanted him to behave in ways he'd rather not.

Idiosyncrasy != mental illness.

I wish I'd been a psychiatrist.

I didn't expect anyone to advocate that psychotic behaviour, that could endanger themselves and others, is a normal part of a person with an unstable mind and thus should not be treated.
I would suggest then that your experience is somewhat narrow.

I didn't tell him not to worry. I just offered the possibility that he could improve his life dramatically simply by ignoring those around him who wanted him to behave in ways he'd rather not.

Idiosyncrasy != mental illness.

I wish I'd been a psychiatrist.

Mental illness != mere idiosyncrasy

Collection of symptoms of mental illness to certain degrees = mental illness.

Ignoring symptoms != cure for mental illness.

If you'd studied psychiatry, you wouldn't spout such nonsense and you (probably) wouldn't give such bad advice.

Remember, I'm the one who thinks psychopathy isn't a disorder, just a different point of view.

There's no way for us to verify our own perception, so we can't credibly tell others that their perception is incorrect.

Remember, I'm the one who thinks psychopathy isn't a disorder, just a different point of view.

There's no way for us to verify our own perception, so we can't credibly tell others that their perception is incorrect.

This simply displays profound ignorance as to what constitutes a mental disorder.

Let's look at the diagnostic criteria for just one common disorder -- major depressive disorder -- as listed in the DSM-IV (pdf (http://www.iscribe.com/pdf/majorDepDisorderDSM-IV.pdf)) (emphasis added):

A. A minimum of five symptoms from the following list have been present during the same 2-week period and represent a change from previous functioning. One of the symptoms must be #1 or #2, as listed below:

1) Depressed mood most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated either by subjective report (e.g. feels sad or empty) or observation made by others (e.g. appears tearful)

2) Markedly diminished interest or pleasure in all, or almost all, activities most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated either by subjective account or observation made by others. Do not include symptoms that are clearly due to general medical condition or mood-incongruent delusions or hallucinations.

3) Significant weight loss when not dieting or weight gain (e.g. a change of more than 5% of body weight in a month) or decrease or increase in appetite nearly every day

4) Insomnia or hypersomnia nearly every day

5) Psychomotor agitation or retardation nearly every day (observable by others, not merely subjective feelings of restlessness or being slowed down)

6) Fatigue or loss of energy nearly every day

7) Feelings of worthlessness or excessive or inappropriate guilt (which may be delusional) nearly every day (not merely self-reproach or guilt about being sick)

8) Diminished ability to think or concentrate, or indecisiveness, nearly every day (either by subjective account or as observed by others)

9) Recurrent thoughts of death (not just fear of dying), recurrent suicidal ideation without a specific plan,or a suicide attempt or specific plan for committing suicide

B. The symptoms do not meet the criteria for a mixed episode

C. The symptoms cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning

D. The symptoms are not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication) or a general medical condition (e.g., hypothyroidism).

E. The symptoms are not better accounted for by bereavement, i.e., after the loss of a loved one, the symptoms persist for longer than 2 months or are characterized by marked functional impairment, morbid preoccupation with worthlessness, suicidal ideation, psychotic symptoms, or psychomotor retardation

Does someone who meets the above criteria merely have a "different view"? The argument is silly when exposed.

Does someone who meets the above criteria merely have a "different view"? The argument is silly when exposed.

If the person evaluating the criteria is sufficiently warped, I'm sure they'll see it as just a "different view".

Separate the reality from the man...

Remember, I'm the one who thinks psychopathy isn't a disorder, just a different point of view.

There's no way for us to verify our own perception, so we can't credibly tell others that their perception is incorrect.

This simply displays profound ignorance as to what constitutes a mental disorder.

Let's look at the diagnostic criteria for just one common disorder -- major depressive disorder -- as listed in the DSM-IV (pdf (http://www.iscribe.com/pdf/majorDepDisorderDSM-IV.pdf)) (emphasis added):

A. A minimum of five symptoms from the following list have been present during the same 2-week period and represent a change from previous functioning. One of the symptoms must be #1 or #2, as listed below:

1) Depressed mood most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated either by subjective report (e.g. feels sad or empty) or observation made by others (e.g. appears tearful)

2) Markedly diminished interest or pleasure in all, or almost all, activities most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated either by subjective account or observation made by others. Do not include symptoms that are clearly due to general medical condition or mood-incongruent delusions or hallucinations.

3) Significant weight loss when not dieting or weight gain (e.g. a change of more than 5% of body weight in a month) or decrease or increase in appetite nearly every day

4) Insomnia or hypersomnia nearly every day

5) Psychomotor agitation or retardation nearly every day (observable by others, not merely subjective feelings of restlessness or being slowed down)

6) Fatigue or loss of energy nearly every day

7) Feelings of worthlessness or excessive or inappropriate guilt (which may be delusional) nearly every day (not merely self-reproach or guilt about being sick)

8) Diminished ability to think or concentrate, or indecisiveness, nearly every day (either by subjective account or as observed by others)

9) Recurrent thoughts of death (not just fear of dying), recurrent suicidal ideation without a specific plan,or a suicide attempt or specific plan for committing suicide

B. The symptoms do not meet the criteria for a mixed episode

C. The symptoms cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning

D. The symptoms are not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication) or a general medical condition (e.g., hypothyroidism).

E. The symptoms are not better accounted for by bereavement, i.e., after the loss of a loved one, the symptoms persist for longer than 2 months or are characterized by marked functional impairment, morbid preoccupation with worthlessness, suicidal ideation, psychotic symptoms, or psychomotor retardation

Does someone who meets the above criteria merely have a "different view"? The argument is silly when exposed.

Bump. I'd really like to see your response, Llewdor.

Perhaps even an admission that you overstated things. ;)

Bump. I'd really like to see your response, Llewdor.

Perhaps even an admission that you overstated things. ;)
I've been busy.
This simply displays profound ignorance as to what constitutes a mental disorder.

Let's look at the diagnostic criteria for just one common disorder -- major depressive disorder -- as listed in the DSM-IV (pdf (http://www.iscribe.com/pdf/majorDepDisorderDSM-IV.pdf)) (emphasis added):

A. A minimum of five symptoms from the following list have been present during the same 2-week period and represent a change from previous functioning. One of the symptoms must be #1 or #2, as listed below:

1) Depressed mood most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated either by subjective report (e.g. feels sad or empty) or observation made by others (e.g. appears tearful)

2) Markedly diminished interest or pleasure in all, or almost all, activities most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated either by subjective account or observation made by others. Do not include symptoms that are clearly due to general medical condition or mood-incongruent delusions or hallucinations.

3) Significant weight loss when not dieting or weight gain (e.g. a change of more than 5% of body weight in a month) or decrease or increase in appetite nearly every day

4) Insomnia or hypersomnia nearly every day

5) Psychomotor agitation or retardation nearly every day (observable by others, not merely subjective feelings of restlessness or being slowed down)

6) Fatigue or loss of energy nearly every day

7) Feelings of worthlessness or excessive or inappropriate guilt (which may be delusional) nearly every day (not merely self-reproach or guilt about being sick)

8) Diminished ability to think or concentrate, or indecisiveness, nearly every day (either by subjective account or as observed by others)

9) Recurrent thoughts of death (not just fear of dying), recurrent suicidal ideation without a specific plan,or a suicide attempt or specific plan for committing suicide

B. The symptoms do not meet the criteria for a mixed episode

C. The symptoms cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning

D. The symptoms are not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication) or a general medical condition (e.g., hypothyroidism).

E. The symptoms are not better accounted for by bereavement, i.e., after the loss of a loved one, the symptoms persist for longer than 2 months or are characterized by marked functional impairment, morbid preoccupation with worthlessness, suicidal ideation, psychotic symptoms, or psychomotor retardation

Does someone who meets the above criteria merely have a "different view"? The argument is silly when exposed.
Technically, I only ever described psychopathy as a different view.

As for depression, I've never liked it. Depressed people are not rational, since they're experiencing a profound emotional reaction and can't tell us why. Unless they have Alexythemia, they should be able to describe why they feel the way they do, because all emotion normally stems from rational thought. You feel a certain way for a reason you can explain (not just rationalise, but explain, and predict).

Isn't Depression a brain chemistry problem? That's physiological. The psychomotor agitation or retardation would seem to me also to support that.

Addressing the specific diagnostic points, depression neatly excludes cases where the emotions are caused by the patient's perception of the world differing from that of the diagnostician (delusions). Also, I would assert that all feelings of guilt are excessive and inappropriate.

I'm not sure what reaction you want from me. Given that the diagnostic criteria require that depressed people not be rational, I can't really talk about them. If they could explain why they were depressed (even if the reasons didn't make sense to us), I would argue that there's nothing necessarily wrong with them. That they can't makes them irrational, and thus I don't understand them at all.