NationStates Jolt Archive

I've been wondering for a while now... when I'm having kids, would I want a vaginal birth or a ceasarean section?
I have to admit, both options are rather scary to me (I don't take pain well... at all), but which one would be easier?
Vaginal could mean labour for well over a day, a colleague of mine recently went through nearly 30 hours, and then had to have a c-section anyway. I'm aware that there are pain-killers available, but as I understand they don't take the pain and uncomfort away alltogether.
C-section could mean a nice and quick birth, but a long healing process afterwards. That colleague I mentioned had had hers 3 months ago, and is still in pain whenever she had to cough. Sex is completely out of the question. Not sure I'd want to go 3 month without sex...

So I was wondering who here had a vaginal birth or a c-section, and what your experiences were? Any horrors I'm not yet aware of? Anything that sounds worse than it is so far?

C-sections leave dangers behind for the rest of your life or so I hear while the risk from natural childbirth is only around for when the birth is occurring. Cutting the uterus open to get the child out causes complications every period/pregnancy.

What kind of dangers/complications? I had a look at a few webpages, there was no mention of this...
The one thing I did read was about perineal laceration, which made me lean towards c-section even further.

I've been wondering for a while now... when I'm having kids, would I want a vaginal birth or a ceasarean section?
I have to admit, both options are rather scary to me (I don't take pain well... at all), but which one would be easier?
Vaginal could mean labour for well over a day, a colleague of mine recently went through nearly 30 hours, and then had to have a c-section anyway. I'm aware that there are pain-killers available, but as I understand they don't take the pain and uncomfort away alltogether.
C-section could mean a nice and quick birth, but a long healing process afterwards. That colleague I mentioned had had hers 3 months ago, and is still in pain whenever she had to cough. Sex is completely out of the question. Not sure I'd want to go 3 month without sex...

So I was wondering who here had a vaginal birth or a c-section, and what your experiences were? Any horrors I'm not yet aware of? Anything that sounds worse than it is so far?

C-sections leave dangers behind for the rest of your life or so I hear while the risk from natural childbirth is only around for when the birth is occurring. Cutting the uterus open to get the child out causes complications every period/pregnancy.

C-sections are just a fortunate point of technology that have happened to save a few mothers and babies who would have died normally. It's good that we have them, but I say you really should just go nature's way. Besides, once the child is out of your body (unless you're nursing it), you can just flood your veins with sweet Oxycodone.

its weird but I have never really heard of a cesarean being done voluntarily

though having Macduff out of The Scottish play as a son could be fun...

Sex is completely out of the question. Not sure I'd want to go 3 month without sex...

you seem to be on the assumption that after creating such a monster you would want your baby making machine going near you :p

C-sections are just a fortunate point of technology that have happened to save a few mothers and babies who would have died normally. It's good that we have them, but I say you really should just go nature's way. Besides, once the child is out of your body (unless you're nursing it), you can just flood your veins with sweet Oxycodone.

In my experience, the "natural way" of anything tends to be messy...
I don't know.
I don't have to decide right now anyway, but, well, you never know...

seconded, save the c-section for when it's absolutely necessary otherwise just have it the normal way.

why? Why should we treat anything the "natural way"? The natural way to treat an infection was to die. The natural way to treat a broken bone is to have it mend badly for the rest of your life. The natural way to prevent getting sick was prayer.

The "natural way" to do things by and large, sucks. That's why we came up with the thoroughly unnatural science of medicine.

its weird but I have never really heard of a cesarean being done voluntarily

though having Macduff out of The Scottish play as a son could be fun...



Seems to be an option now, most docs will ask what you'd want.
And I don't want my kid talking Elizabethan English in bad rhymes :(


you seem to be on the assumption that after creating such a monster you would want your baby making machine going near you :p

He'll have to put his little raincoat on ;)

seconded, save the c-section for when it's absolutely necessary otherwise just have it the normal way.

Why?

C-sections are just a fortunate point of technology that have happened to save a few mothers and babies who would have died normally. It's good that we have them, but I say you really should just go nature's way. Besides, once the child is out of your body (unless you're nursing it), you can just flood your veins with sweet Oxycodone.

seconded, save the c-section for when it's absolutely necessary otherwise just have it the normal way.

Adoption. Maybe.

Personally, I'm probably going to have kids the natural way. There's a gene in my family for easy childbirth. My great-grandmother never had a kid in the presence of a midwife; my grandma had three strong contractions -- with her first; the only reason I was born in a hospital (45 minutes start-to-finish) was my mom didn't feel good. I really hope I got this gene because then it would make having kids much easier.

Also, if you do choose to have kids the natural way, give birth in a hospital because things can go wrong so fast that, if you're at home, you stand a much bigger chance of dying. There was a childbirth complication in my family that would have killed both mother and baby if she had given birth at home.

The "natural way" to do things by and large, sucks. That's why we came up with the thoroughly unnatural science of medicine.

so your feet haven't been hideously disfigured by footwear?

Seems to be an option now, most docs will ask what you'd want.

I say go with a cesarean just to be different

He'll have to put his little raincoat on ;)

or maybe he can be the one having the surgery :p

why? Why should we treat anything the "natural way"? The natural way to treat an infection was to die. The natural way to treat a broken bone is to have it mend badly for the rest of your life. The natural way to prevent getting sick was prayer.

The "natural way" to do things by and large, sucks. That's why we came up with the thoroughly unnatural science of medicine.

Because we were built for the natural way, we are meant for it, it's because we're straying away from many natural things that we are meant for that problems are popping up in the world like popcorn. We aren't meant for artificial foods and now we have an obesity problem. We aren't meant to constantly expose ourselves to certain chemicals and now people are becoming both mentally and physically effected. Our lungs aren't meant for exaust and our bodies never evolved to deal with pollution. If we isolate ourselves from what's natural from us things will only get worse and worse for us. Did you ever notice that when taking a walk in the forest or on the beach deep down a part of you feels satisfied? Did you ever notice that when eating 100% natural fruits you feel more nourished as opposed to when you eat foods your body didn't evolve to like?

Besides, the more a mother feels pain during childbirth the stronger the love the mother has for her young. If someone puts a lot of effort into something they'll be pissed if its destroyed, however if barely any effort is placed into said thing there will barely be any emotion when the thing in question is destroyed. Giving birth the natural way shows the mother is willing to go through alot for her young.

Did you ever notice that when eating 100% natural fruits you feel more nourished as opposed to when you eat foods your body didn't evolve to like?
My body evolved to eat citrus, bone marrow, and partially decayed flesh. Forgive me if I don't wish to eat what my body evolved to eat.

vaginal birth with extensive pain medicine is the best way to go.

cesarian birth is major surgery. you should never opt for major surgery when there is an alternative

of course you should be OK with the idea of a cesarian because sometimes its the best thing for a safe delivery

My mum (whos a consultant gynacologist) says that you should go with the natural birth. C section leaves you with a huge scar across your stomach for a loong time, maybe forever, and it means you can only have a certain number of children by C-section afterwards which can cause major complications later on if you need to have a C-section because of a problem with the birth.

--snippy--
Caesarian section has its indications. Your friend probably had some problems (like "failure of descent" of the baby; or "cephalopelvic disproportion" where the baby's head is too big to pass through the pelvis; or "fetal malposition" where the baby's intrauterine position was not amenable to vaginal delivery; and so on...) that is why she was in labor for too long and a caesarian section was in order.

I was born vaginally; I reckon that I was the easiest of my mom's delivery. My grandmother delivered twins vaginally, and at home... my aunt was even a breech delivery!

As for perineal lacerations, this happens when the perineum is torn with the passage of the baby. Episiotomies (You know, the cut made by the doctor on the perineum during the delivery) can greatly reduce the incidence of perineal lacerations and heal faster.

As for caesarian sections, you can't do it too often. AFAIK you can only undergo CS 4 or 5 times (not that sure). Also, there are risks involved, such as placenta praevia, placenta accreta, excessive bleeding, etc.

Personally, I am not too fond of elective caesarian section, but I think it's much better if you discuss it with your obstetrician-gynecologist. ;)

Why?

risk of complications. You could also take an epidural anesthesia if you're afraid of the pain.

But I think a real doctor might be better qualified to help you decide than a random internet person.

Cesarean section births are, as far as I am aware, utilized only in emergencies. It was utilized in my case because the umbilical cord had wrapped around my throat, but I would have been born by normal labour otherwise.

My body evolved to eat citrus, bone marrow, and partially decayed flesh. Forgive me if I don't wish to eat what my body evolved to eat.

so fruits, vegetables, nuts, berries and meat are completely off the menu then?

Go with adoption.

And, IIRC, if you have a c-section all later babies have to be c-section as well.

I would never have a C-section voluntarily (even though the mere thought of birthing a kid the natural way makes me wince). It's major surgery and I think it should only be done when natural birth is not an option. From what I've read, there's a good chance that you won't be able to have future children by natural birth after you've had a C-section (I'm guessing because things might rupture?).
And, mainly, there are dangers attached to the procedure not only for the mother (typical surgery or healing complications) but also for the child. A couple years ago or so I read a long piece I think in the New York Times about parents suing a doctor because when he had performed the C-section he accidentally cut just a tiny bit too far into the womb with his scalpel and was unlucky enough to cut into the child's skull and brain - which left it severely handicapped for life. For the record, it wasn't like the parents' suit was guaranteed to win, because it's not like the doctor was necessarily negligent - it's just one of the risks of the surgery.

In this case at least it was a C-section for medical reasons but that could just as well happen in a C-section for no good reason whatsoever.

For what it's worth, all my girlfriends who've had kids have suffered through labour just fine. Sure, they'll tell you all about how awful it was for a few weeks, but if you ask them a month later they're all "Nah, I never said that, it totally wasn't that bad". Nature. *shrug*

Why have babies yourself, when you can outsource it to india (http://blog.wired.com/underwire/2008/01/indias-outsourc.html)?

If I have kids I'm having a cesarean. They say the stretched out vagina is a myth, but I've been with women who have had kids. Things just aren't as toned and tight in there.

As for perineal lacerations, this happens when the perineum is torn with the passage of the baby. Episiotomies (You know, the cut made by the doctor on the perineum during the delivery) can greatly reduce the incidence of perineal lacerations and heal faster.
Indeed. Not that I think that's much better, especially since everyone will tell you "oh, no, you won't even feel the cut - they cut during a contraction so you won't even feel it!" which is apparently meant to be reassuring. ><

But yeah, objectively apparently not that big a deal. And it's not like everyone will experience a torn or cut perineum. There are exercises you can do during pregnancy to make the muscles more elastic or strong or some such thing.

There's one other reason I will only have a cesarean. Episiotomy. Do not want! And when they go wrong...

http://www.setexasrecord.com/news/193627-episiotomy-delivers-doctor-to-court

Both have their drawbacks, but naturally is how your body is designed to deliver the baby. It may not be easy, but if it isn't broken...

Besides, that's what epidurals are for. If not induced, may even be able to withstand the delivery on your own. (Induction increases the contractions tenfold, making them that much more painful. Natural contractions are tolerable.) Either way, you get pain meds afterwards and most of the pain is relieved as much as possible.

C-section is one of those last-resort option, though it could leave things out of order longer than a natural birth mainly since it's tearing up your innards in order to get a baby out.

That didn't stop my mom. Three natural childbirths AFTER me.

Doctors have gone back and forth on whether or not that's a good idea. I think the current feelings are it isn't, but that'll change again in five years.

I would never have a C-section voluntarily (even though the mere thought of birthing a kid the natural way makes me wince). It's major surgery and I think it should only be done when natural birth is not an option. From what I've read, there's a good chance that you won't be able to have future children by natural birth after you've had a C-section (I'm guessing because things might rupture?).

That didn't stop my mom. Three natural childbirths AFTER me.

Because we were built for the natural way, we are meant for itIf we're "meant" for anything, it's to have a culture and avoid "natural" at all costs. Our natural inclination is to forgo the randomness of nature and seek the security of a controlled (cultural) environment.

Do you have any idea how high the death rate is if people would forgo all 'unnatural' medical attention during birth? Giving birth in the bushes with predators lurking about is not a picknick.
Natural does not equal good. Certainly our natural inclinations and the conditions we evolved in are something to take into account, but they're by no means the say all and end all.

it's because we're straying away from many natural things that we are meant for that problems are popping up in the world like popcorn. And also, we life twice as long, child death is only a fraction of what it would naturally be, etc...

Did you ever notice that when eating 100% natural fruits you feel more nourished as opposed to when you eat foods your body didn't evolve to like?I can't say that I have, really. Now, chocolate on the other hand ...

If I have kids I'm having a cesarean. They say the stretched out vagina is a myth, but I've been with women who have had kids. Things just aren't as toned and tight in there.

There are easy exercises one can do to correct that, so long as they didn't have a loose vagina to begin with. (Is that even the right word for it?)

If we're "meant" for anything, it's to have a culture and avoid "natural" at all costs. Our natural inclination is to forgo the randomness of nature and seek the security of a controlled (cultural) environment.

Do you have any idea how high the death rate is if people would forgo all 'unnatural' medical attention during birth? Giving birth in the bushes with predators lurking about is not a picknick.
Natural does not equal good. Certainly our natural inclinations and the conditions we evolved in are something to take into account, but they're by no means the say all and end all.


Bit of a slippery slope argument there. Just because you have the baby naturally, doesn't mean that you are going to have it in the woods. And just because sometimes natural = bad, doesn't mean natural =/= good sometimes. I agree the "take the natural cos its natural" argument doesn't work, but that doesn't mean natural is always bad.

Because we were built for the natural way, we are meant for it, it's because we're straying away from many natural things that we are meant for that problems are popping up in the world like popcorn. We aren't meant for artificial foods and now we have an obesity problem. We aren't meant to constantly expose ourselves to certain chemicals and now people are becoming both mentally and physically effected. Our lungs aren't meant for exaust and our bodies never evolved to deal with pollution. If we isolate ourselves from what's natural from us things will only get worse and worse for us. Did you ever notice that when taking a walk in the forest or on the beach deep down a part of you feels satisfied? Did you ever notice that when eating 100% natural fruits you feel more nourished as opposed to when you eat foods your body didn't evolve to like?

I'm sorry, but I'm most certainly not "meant" to do anything.
If we were "meant" to give vaginal birth, why is it so likely to kill us without medical assistance, then? Are we "meant" to die in childbirth?


Besides, the more a mother feels pain during childbirth the stronger the love the mother has for her young. If someone puts a lot of effort into something they'll be pissed if its destroyed, however if barely any effort is placed into said thing there will barely be any emotion when the thing in question is destroyed. Giving birth the natural way shows the mother is willing to go through alot for her young.

Who told you that load of bullshit?
I'f I'm going for vaginal, I'll make sure to be pumped full to the brim with painkillers, let me assure you.

I have three that have gone vaginal. I say if you can do it the natural way. At least that is what nature/God intended.

Also I wonder and this probably cannot be disproved but does the ceasarean born people have the same death experience as those that are born naturally? It is theory that when people die they replay the memory of their birth. The white light at the end of a tunnel with a group of relatives standing around at the end. I know it is a bit off the wall but I really wonder.

Caesarian section has its indications. Your friend probably had some problems (like "failure of descent" of the baby; or "cephalopelvic disproportion" where the baby's head is too big to pass through the pelvis; or "fetal malposition" where the baby's intrauterine position was not amenable to vaginal delivery; and so on...) that is why she was in labor for too long and a caesarian section was in order.

I was born vaginally; I reckon that I was the easiest of my mom's delivery. My grandmother delivered twins vaginally, and at home... my aunt was even a breech delivery!

As for perineal lacerations, this happens when the perineum is torn with the passage of the baby. Episiotomies (You know, the cut made by the doctor on the perineum during the delivery) can greatly reduce the incidence of perineal lacerations and heal faster.

As for caesarian sections, you can't do it too often. AFAIK you can only undergo CS 4 or 5 times (not that sure). Also, there are risks involved, such as placenta praevia, placenta accreta, excessive bleeding, etc.

Personally, I am not too fond of elective caesarian section, but I think it's much better if you discuss it with your obstetrician-gynecologist. ;)

Thanks.
Currently, I'm only gathering information really, there's no acute need to decide yet.
And 4 or 5 times should be plenty, really. I'm thinking about having a family, not a tribe ;)

I have three that have gone vaginal. I say if you can do it the natural way. At least that is what nature/God intended.

Sorry, that argument isn't going to do anything for me. We're not "meant" for anything.


Also I wonder and this probably cannot be disproved but does the ceasarean born people have the same death experience as those that are born naturally? It is theory that when people die they replay the memory of their birth. The white light at the end of a tunnel with a group of relatives standing around at the end. I know it is a bit off the wall but I really wonder.

Why would they? I guess from the babies point of view it's still more or less the same experience : Darkness, a white opening, and then a lot of cold and screaming.

Bit of a slippery slope argument there. Just because you have the baby naturally, doesn't mean that you are going to have it in the woods. True, but that whole post seemed to carry the more general message of "don't stray from the natural ways", rather than merely "natural child birth is better".

And just because sometimes natural = bad, doesn't mean natural =/= good sometimes. I agree the "take the natural cos its natural" argument doesn't work, but that doesn't mean natural is always bad.true, true..

There are easy exercises one can do to correct that, so long as they didn't have a loose vagina to begin with. (Is that even the right word for it?)

There's only so far that can help. Her vagina wasn't big so much as it lacked muscle tone and I know she did her exercises. I also figure that vaginaplasty thing is popular for a reason. http://www.drmatlock.com/lvr.htm

I'm sorry, but I'm most certainly not "meant" to do anything.
If we were "meant" to give vaginal birth, why is it so likely to kill us without medical assistance, then? Are we "meant" to die in childbirth?


Who told you that load of bullshit?
I'f I'm going for vaginal, I'll make sure to be pumped full to the brim with painkillers, let me assure you.

1) One answer, evolution is slow. It has happened to multiple species, for example the descendant of the emu still lays big eggs despite the fact its considerable smaller than the creature it evolved from. When humans evolved large heads the pelvis didn't get wider.

If I was to give birth (which would also require me to have the right 'equipment' to do so), I'd go for the C-section, and most likely schedule it like any other surgery, to be as convenient as possible.

I think you should go for the Scientology birth. No painkillers and no screaming(we wouldn't want to scare the baby). Xenu will guide you through it *nods*

I think you should go for the Scientology birth. No painkillers and no screaming(we wouldn't want to scare the baby). Xenu will guide you through it *nods*

i wonder how they avoid the screaming. do you suppose they gag the mother to keep her quiet?

1) One answer, evolution is slow. It has happened to multiple species, for example the descendant of the emu still lays big eggs despite the fact its considerable smaller than the creature it evolved from. When humans evolved large heads the pelvis didn't get wider.

:rolleyes:
I know. This would clearly show that if anything, we're not "meant" to walk upright.

i wonder how they avoid the screaming. do you suppose they gag the mother to keep her quiet?

Probably the same iron will and mental power that lets them convince themselves that they believe the whole Xenu story.

:rolleyes:
I know. This would clearly show that if anything, we're not "meant" to walk upright.

are you really thinking that you might want to have a child some time in the near future?

My wife gave birth to my son vaginally, but she had two epidurals in her. Two hours after "hard labor" started he was born, but my wife felt nothing until the last ten minutes or so. (His head couldn't get under her pubic bone, so he got stuck and the doctor had to vacuum him out. Kind of creepy and cool at the same time.)

Just remember, Cabra. The VAST majority of women wanting natural childbirth end up getting drugs anyway. Save yourself some pain and opt for it early, before the medical staff tells you it's too late.


I've been wondering for a while now... when I'm having kids, would I want a vaginal birth or a ceasarean section?
I have to admit, both options are rather scary to me (I don't take pain well... at all), but which one would be easier?
Vaginal could mean labour for well over a day, a colleague of mine recently went through nearly 30 hours, and then had to have a c-section anyway. I'm aware that there are pain-killers available, but as I understand they don't take the pain and uncomfort away alltogether.
C-section could mean a nice and quick birth, but a long healing process afterwards. That colleague I mentioned had had hers 3 months ago, and is still in pain whenever she had to cough. Sex is completely out of the question. Not sure I'd want to go 3 month without sex...

So I was wondering who here had a vaginal birth or a c-section, and what your experiences were? Any horrors I'm not yet aware of? Anything that sounds worse than it is so far?

Gods, gods, neither! I´m pro NOT having brats. That means no natural births and no C-sections.

1) One answer, evolution is slow. It has happened to multiple species, for example the descendant of the emu still lays big eggs despite the fact its considerable smaller than the creature it evolved from. When humans evolved large heads the pelvis didn't get wider.

1. The emu has no descendants.
2. The pelvis did widen.

so fruits, vegetables, nuts, berries and meat are completely off the menu then?

Considering that we didn't evolve to eat pretty much everything you mentioned, yes. You might want to do a bit of reading on human evolution before making claims about it.

Not a woman, but...

Vaginal is the better option. Yes, the pain is intense (My wife was in labor for well over 30 hours and at the end she was telling me that she REALLY didn't want the baby, but the recovery is MUCH faster. She was up and about the next day after getting some rest and after a week the soreness went away from the tear. My mother on the other hand had to have a C-section for my sister and I (I was large and breach, my sister was just too damn close after I was) and it took her months to fully recover and still has the scar from it.

Besides, surgery is still surgery and there are all sorts of issues that come up with doing a C-section including infections and, if your labor hits earlier than planed, going into surgery without an empty stomach.

Edit: Oh, and Cabra, most doctors tell you to wait 3 to 6 months after birth before starting up sexual activity, but I can tell you from experience that at 3 months your baby will demand all your attention when awake and when she or he is asleep, you and your partner will be desperate that one thing you have missed in those three months... SLEEP!

Go for Vaginal unless life/lives are in danger. C-sections are done too often. We are doing things less and less naturally and it sickens me.

Adopt.

C section, or vaginal birth with fuckloads of painkillers. Or adopt, that's totally pain-free!

Theres been a programme on BBC3 the last week or so Cabra (in fact, it's on right now), Dawn Gets a Baby. Sort of de-terrifies vaginal birth. You can probably watch it on the bbc website if you're interested.

As for me, it's likely I'll get a caesarean, partly since theres a history in my family of kids being the wrong way round (feet first). I don't care if it's not "natural", the painkillers I'll be demanding aren't natural either :p

Besides, the more a mother feels pain during childbirth the stronger the love the mother has for her young. If someone puts a lot of effort into something they'll be pissed if its destroyed, however if barely any effort is placed into said thing there will barely be any emotion when the thing in question is destroyed. Giving birth the natural way shows the mother is willing to go through alot for her young.

This has to be one of the funniest arguments I have ever read.

More seriously, the most sensible choice in my view is to plan on vaginal birth but be okay with a c-section if necessary. The simple truth is that a c-section is major surgery, and major surgery inherently carries risks that you'd probably prefer to avoid. (And, of course, the best choice of all is probably just to trust your future doctor's advice over that of a bunch of internet-people. :p )

I vote option 3, Vaccum!

Women in some cultures don't feel labor pain. Weird, huh? Fact is, we're socialized to respond to pain in certain ways - if we see our parents react a certain way, that's the way we'll act. We're used to being told that labor pain is the world's worst, and movies back it up, but your experience may differ, you never know. :p

I suggest, from best to worst option:

1. Hiring a third-worlder to carry the baby
2. Adoption
3. Not having any kids (it's eco-friendly, after all - you'll have super bragging rights at cocktail parties)
4. Ceasarian or natural birth.

Go for Vaginal unless life/lives are in danger. C-sections are done too often. We are doing things less and less naturally and it sickens me.

If I may ask -- why does natural equal better?

If I may ask -- why does natural equal better?
Natural isn't always better and is quite often very inefficient. Sel is just one of those luddites who clings to their nostalgia like pool drain to an idiot's dick.

Women in some cultures don't feel labor pain. Weird, huh? Fact is, we're socialized to respond to pain in certain ways - if we see our parents react a certain way, that's the way we'll act. We're used to being told that labor pain is the world's worst, and movies back it up, but your experience may differ, you never know. :p

Can you back this up?

This would be like saying some cultures don't feel pain when they stick a spear into their chest because, you know, their parents didn't express pain so they never learned this.

On the subject - what about water birth?

On the other end of the spectrum, extract an egg, fuse it with ye olde sperm and grow it in a jar, solves all sort of pain issues.

Natural isn't always better and is quite often very inefficient. Sel is just one of those luddites who clings to their nostalgia like pool drain to an idiot's dick.

Ahh, I see. I just don't often have the chance to ask someone who is sickened by "unnatural" things why.

If a mod would be willing to free my 10hr post on the subject from "needs mod" status, you'd see that I'm quite familiar with the inefficiencies of "natural" childbirth.

Can you back this up?

This would be like saying some cultures don't feel pain when they stick a spear into their chest because, you know, their parents didn't express pain so they never learned this.

Sure - it's repeated as fact in every book I've ever read on neurology, including:

http://cogweb.ucla.edu/Abstracts/Ramachandran_98.html

and

http://www.spinetext.com/ (publisher's website for the fifth edition)

The first one is great for recreational reading. The second is just a text on the spine - not much fun unless you really like the spine. :p I asked my doctor about pain and socialization, and whether it was true that some women didn't feel labor pains, and he said he'd heard that and thought it was true. This was about 6 months ago.

Natural isn't always better and is quite often very inefficient. Sel is just one of those luddites who clings to their nostalgia like pool drain to an idiot's dick.

LOL, I'm quite familiar with the inefficiencies of vaginal birth. My wife even more so. She felt nothing, but because my son's head was too big to get under the pubic bone in order to come out, the doctor had to vacuum his head out.

Sure - it's repeated as fact in every book I've ever read on neurology, including:

http://cogweb.ucla.edu/Abstracts/Ramachandran_98.html

and

http://www.spinetext.com/ (publisher's website for the fifth edition)

The first one is great for recreational reading. The second is just a text on the spine - not much fun unless you really like the spine. :p I asked my doctor about pain and socialization, and whether it was true that some women didn't feel labor pains, and he said he'd heard that and thought it was true. This was about 6 months ago.

I'm not sure these address the point.

I'd guess they're talking about either the ability to suppress pain or defects that mean information is being translated wrongly.

To some extent, pain is simply the brain's translation of nerve endings firing but we have this for very good reason. While it's certainly possible to suppress, a properly functioning brain would interpret the act of birth as painful. It's not something you can train yourself in because the first act of birth is hard to simulate.

Emotional pain I can understand as a cultural construct but physical pain?

I find this idea hard to fully believe.

It's not something you can train yourself in because the first act of birth is hard to simulate.

Wouldn't that be an awesome punishment, if you could though? Kind of like how, in SERE training male soldiers are held captive and subjected to a recorded baby crying on a loop for 27 hours straight.

I'm not sure these address the point.


Read them already, have you? :p

While it's certainly possible to suppress, a properly functioning brain would interpret the act of birth as painful. It's not something you can train yourself in because the first act of birth is hard to simulate.

Emotional pain I can understand as a cultural construct but physical pain?

I find this idea hard to fully believe.

You might be surprised. Both present some pretty incredible cases where expectations dictated exactly the type of pain felt and its severity.

Read them already, have you? :p

Yup, Amazon deliver them that quickly :)

I'm pretty up on the brain and its workings so I know the area they're talking about from the synopses given, more on the first book than the second.

You might be surprised. Both present some pretty incredible cases where expectations dictated exactly the type of pain felt and its severity.

I don't dispute this, you can test for yourself on expectations by telling yourself a mug of steaming hot coffee is cold to the touch, concentrate on that idea and you'll be able to hold it longer than if you expect it to be steaming hot. At some point, however, the physical reality of its steaming heat will become clear.

We're getting into a very tricky area of the nature of reality and the brains interpretation.

In terms of extreme pain, the brain can suppress this itself and also has very good reason to. Amarillo Slim tells of a horse falling on him, breaking his pelvis and yet he crawls out of a river, up the bank and to a road over 500m away.

I myself have had the bone in my finger snap out of the skin and felt no pain - in both these cases, our brain has suppressed the pain for very good reason, to stop us going into shock and allowing us to get to safety.

What I'm questioning is whether an entire culture can cause the suppression of physical pain completely, it may not be as bad as people are led to believe but, if there's physical damage - stretching and tearing - being done, it's hard to pre-condition a people into feeling no pain.

I could certainly be wrong but a quick Google search hasn't helped me find this culture.

What I'm questioning is whether an entire culture can cause the suppression of physical pain completely, it may not be as bad as people are led to believe but, if there's physical damage - stretching and tearing - being done, it's hard to pre-condition a people into feeling no pain.

I could certainly be wrong but a quick Google search hasn't helped me find this culture.

That's exactly what those sources are saying. Ramachandran is probably the most famous neurologist in the world, second maybe to Oliver Sacks, so I'd consider him a reliable source. It would've been nice if he had said exactly *where* birth pains were rare, but he was addressing phantom pregnancy in that chapter, if I remember right, and simply footnoted it. My google results had it mentioned a few places but in pregnancy-related blogs which aren't great sources. I'm guessing he's referencing asian or african cultures where pregnancy is common enough that kids see several before they ever mature to the point of having their own kids.

That's exactly what those sources are saying. Ramachandran is probably the most famous neurologist in the world, second maybe to Oliver Sacks, so I'd consider him a reliable source. It would've been nice if he had said exactly *where* birth pains were rare, but he was addressing phantom pregnancy in that chapter, if I remember right, and simply footnoted it. My google results had it mentioned a few places but in pregnancy-related blogs which aren't great sources. I'm guessing he's referencing asian or african cultures where pregnancy is common enough that kids see several before they ever mature to the point of having their own kids.

Olivier Sacks is certainly famous but that doesn't translate into his being the best - he has a vested interest in suggesting the brain's power in these circumstances and, even then, he's mostly talking of aberrations rather than the norm - so whereas the brain may have the power to suppress, once again, the physical reality still has great bearing.

Look, pain is entirely a neurological phenomena - it's merely a warning signal that something is acting as a force upon us - given you've read these books I'm not sure I need to go too deeply into this.

I have to admit here, that I'm not entirely sure as to the physical nature of childbirth but I do know that the human head is abnormally large and so I'm assuming wear and tear is happening.

Now, it may be that we can configure expectations in society to say it's not that painful and therefore alleviate those expectations but there are physical realities.

I would suggest that, in those cultures where birth pains are minimal, it's more to do with the physical make up of the body, the baby or other rather than a cultural hypnosis of sorts that child birth is painless.

It's certainly interested me however,

Personally, I would choose vaginal, but I would also choose an epidural. Even though I will most-probably tear, I would prefer to choose the natural option rather than electing to have major surgery. Plus, I don't want a big scar.

C-sections are just a fortunate point of technology that have happened to save a few mothers and babies who would have died normally. It's good that we have them, but I say you really should just go nature's way. .

I agree. There's nothing wrong with C-sections, in fact, they're amazing and have saved the lives of many mothers and their children, but if you're not experiencing any difficulty, I can't see the reason to choose surgery.

Besides, once the child is out of your body (unless you're nursing it), you can just flood your veins with sweet Oxycodone

It's strange that you've almost contradicted yourself (see bolded words). I'm not sure how long oxycodone stays in a person's system, but most drugs transfer into a mother's breast milk. If oxycodone does this, that would mean a mother would be unable to feed her child as nature intended.

There are easy exercises one can do to correct that, so long as they didn't have a loose vagina to begin with. (Is that even the right word for it?)

Kegel exercises don't make a "loose" vagina tight. From what I understand, they just strengthen the muscles so that you can contract them or hold them during sex. I think I'd just make sure that if I had any tears, they'd sew me back to the way I was.

If I was to give birth (which would also require me to have the right 'equipment' to do so), I'd go for the C-section, and most likely schedule it like any other surgery, to be as convenient as possible.

Major surgery isnt convenient.

Women in some cultures don't feel labor pain. Weird, huh? Fact is, we're socialized to respond to pain in certain ways - if we see our parents react a certain way, that's the way we'll act. We're used to being told that labor pain is the world's worst, and movies back it up, but your experience may differ, you never know. :p.

I have my doubts about that. Just because certain cultures learn different responses to pain, it doesn't mean that the woman doesn't feel pain when her vagina is being torn apart by a god damn head. My mother's tried convincing me that child birth is no more painful that bad period pain, but I know she's lying.

Not that I'm a medical professional, but I'm given to understand that c-sections have a high risk of negative side effects all over, including sterility and more risk to the child.
Natural birth has its risks as well, but I understand that most of them pass once the kid is out or shortly thereafter.
Of course, my education on this subject is limited to what I remember from my high school 'health' class, so I may not be qualified :P

Either way, you'll probably be so high on painkillers at the time that you wouldnt notice if somebody set your hair on fire.
I'd go with vaginal, unless there are, God forbid, complications which actually require a c-section.

I've been wondering for a while now... when I'm having kids, would I want a vaginal birth or a ceasarean section?
I have to admit, both options are rather scary to me (I don't take pain well... at all), but which one would be easier?
Vaginal could mean labour for well over a day, a colleague of mine recently went through nearly 30 hours, and then had to have a c-section anyway. I'm aware that there are pain-killers available, but as I understand they don't take the pain and uncomfort away alltogether.
C-section could mean a nice and quick birth, but a long healing process afterwards. That colleague I mentioned had had hers 3 months ago, and is still in pain whenever she had to cough. Sex is completely out of the question. Not sure I'd want to go 3 month without sex...

So I was wondering who here had a vaginal birth or a c-section, and what your experiences were? Any horrors I'm not yet aware of? Anything that sounds worse than it is so far?
go natural, but lots of drugs, my mom told it was a bitch to push out without any drugs

Personally, I would choose vaginal, but I would also choose an epidural. Even though I will most-probably tear, I would prefer to choose the natural option rather than electing to have major surgery. Plus, I don't want a big scar.


...Kegel exercises don't make a "loose" vagina tight. From what I understand, they just strengthen the muscles so that you can contract them or hold them during sex. I think I'd just make sure that if I had any tears, they'd sew me back to the way I was.

See, my reasoning is, if they end up having to stich me up anyway, I'd rather have the painfull scar on my belly, thanks.

go natural, but lots of drugs, my mom told it was a bitch to push out without any drugs

I'll never understand why some people don't want the drugs... I keep suspecting that there are more masochists out there than we're generally ld to believe.

I'll never understand why some people don't want the drugs... I keep suspecting that there are more masochists out there than we're generally ld to believe.
Mainly because there are worries about what those drugs might do to the baby. Anything that goes into mommy ends up in baby after all.

I’ve had two c-sections. The first was an emergency after 24 hours of labor (which is itself is not as horrible as it sounds. It takes a while for it to get to hard labor, and you can stay home and make yourself as comfy as possible till your contractions really get rolling. I was home for the first 18 hours of it.) The second was planned. We talked about VBAC for the second, but my particular situation didn’t lend itself to it. (It has a lot to do with the reasons you had a first c-section and how far along you’d progressed in labor that indicates possible VBAC success.)

I’d never have a voluntary c-section if it wasn’t medically indicated. It’s major surgery and our bodies are (usually) built to be very efficient at giving birth naturally. It’s the “easier” way to give birth. On the other hand, having to resort to a c-section after being in labor does not mean that you’ve been a “failure at childbirth” (I’ve heard people actually say stupid things like this), nor does it have to be a horribly frightening experience, as long as you know what to expect. My first was a bit scary, because it was an emergency, and I was concerned about the health of my child, but the second (planned) one was very calm, relaxed and civilized.

After a C-section, the best thing to do, as much as it feels like your insides are going to slip through your incision and spill onto the floor, is to force yourself to get up and move around as soon as they let you. It hurts, but it’s really the best way to speed up recovery. Yes, coughing and laughing hurts for a bit. Throwing up from being on morphine post-surgery was the worst – I was given Demerol the second time around and tolerated that much better. I was only on the drip for a day, perhaps, had other painkillers for the second day, then went to Tylenol. I was in the hospital for 4 days with each baby…having a vaginal birth and getting home sooner would have been preferable.

You’re not supposed to lift anything “much heavier than the baby” for the first couple of weeks, and to avoid sex for 6 to 8 weeks afterwards to avoid infection, depending on your situation. The scar is not pretty, but it’s low, so if your tummy hasn’t been totally wrecked from pregnancy (lucky you), you can go back to two piece bathing suits. The scar site hurts for a while; it was probably a 2-3 months of being very aware of it, a year or so of pins and needles and a “pulling” feeling, and then it goes numb. Sometimes mine feels a little itchy, and it’s been 6 years.

I've been wondering for a while now... when I'm having kids, would I want a vaginal birth or a ceasarean section?*snip*
I was very adamant in wanting 'natural' birth, as my mother's generation had C-sections imposed on them like the doctors were handing out candy. Anyway, in the first one, I was 'cut', and in the second I tore. Tearing is easier by the way, and heals a lot more quickly. Both sound painful, but trust me, you have so many endorphins rushing through you that you don't really notice.

Alright, so, comparing with other friends who gave birth via C-sections:

I had a fair amount of pain for about two weeks. The first week was the worst, it hurt to walk, sit, lay down etc...but it wasn't too horrible, just uncomfortable. My friend had a C-section and also wasn't in horrible pain, but couldn't do things like lean over the crib to pick up her baby etc for about a month and a half. She also had a lot more aftercare to deal with than I did.

Unless you really need it, I don't know why you'd want a C-section. It's a surgery, it carries quite a few risks, and it takes a lot longer to heal up after (assuming no major complications during a vaginal birth).

I'll never understand why some people don't want the drugs... I keep suspecting that there are more masochists out there than we're generally ld to believe.

Well you know I am... but that's not the reason I chose no drugs. For one, I know I have a higher tolerance for pain than many people, so I figured I could handle it (and I could). The father of my children is deadly allergic to opiates, and I was worried that this could be a problem for the children. I didn't want an epidural, because to be completely honest, the idea of risking paralysis (as unlikely as it is) AND having someone stick a needle into my spine gave me the fucking heebie jeebies. I'd honestly rather take the pain than that.

The biggest reason though was that my mother and all of my aunties had C-sections, and were out for the entire process. You only give birth a few times in your life (if ever, sorry men, perhaps you could pass a kidney stone and pretend?) and I wanted to know what it was like. I had the peace of mind of knowing that if needed, I could get a C-section, so the fear of trying and then failing wasn't very present.

I know everyone's experience is different, but it really wasn't that painful. Labour was like heavy menstrual cramps, and when I finally got to do some work, well, it wasn't that bad. Why bother with drugs then?

Well you know I am... but that's not the reason I chose no drugs. For one, I know I have a higher tolerance for pain than many people, so I figured I could handle it (and I could). The father of my children is deadly allergic to opiates, and I was worried that this could be a problem for the children. I didn't want an epidural, because to be completely honest, the idea of risking paralysis (as unlikely as it is) AND having someone stick a needle into my spine gave me the fucking heebie jeebies. I'd honestly rather take the pain than that.

The biggest reason though was that my mother and all of my aunties had C-sections, and were out for the entire process. You only give birth a few times in your life (if ever, sorry men, perhaps you could pass a kidney stone and pretend?) and I wanted to know what it was like. I had the peace of mind of knowing that if needed, I could get a C-section, so the fear of trying and then failing wasn't very present.

I know everyone's experience is different, but it really wasn't that painful. Labour was like heavy menstrual cramps, and when I finally got to do some work, well, it wasn't that bad. Why bother with drugs then?

See, I'm not at all pain tolerant... I'm a little weak sissy that way.

I think it must be psychological in my case... the idea of a cut sounds by far preferable to a needle in the back (which sort of creeps me out just thinking about it, I've got a severe phobia where needles are concerned. It's a miracle I survived being tatooed, really) and a possible tear.
I'm not really all that curious about what giving birth feels like. Knowing that it's a lot of pain is quite enough for me, I'm happy enough to be telling people for the rest of my life : Oh, It was a Caesarean, only took a couple minutes, really.

I know, I'm a wuss.

My Wife may Have Either. She and The Child come first, not Some Crap about Natural Birth and Pain is good.

See, I'm not at all pain tolerant... I'm a little weak sissy that way.

I think it must be psychological in my case... the idea of a cut sounds by far preferable to a needle in the back (which sort of creeps me out just thinking about it, I've got a severe phobia where needles are concerned. It's a miracle I survived being tatooed, really) and a possible tear.
I'm not really all that curious about what giving birth feels like. Knowing that it's a lot of pain is quite enough for me, I'm happy enough to be telling people for the rest of my life : Oh, It was a Caesarean, only took a couple minutes, really.

I know, I'm a wuss.
Well it's your choice after all, and if for you it would be absolute, rending agony, then yes, that's a perfectly valid factor to take into consideration. We had to watch a C-section in biology class way back in high school and I've been terrified of it every since. Hey, I have a severe phobia when it comes to having anything touch my eye...I can't even wear contact lenses, so I'm not going to rag on you if you don't want to squeeze a watermelon out your hoohoo :P

My Wife may Have Either. She and The Child come first, not Some Crap about Natural Birth and Pain is good.

Well you obviously feel that the pain you subject us to is good, else you'd have giving up the ridiculous capitalisation long ago.

My Wife may Have Either. She and The Child come first, not Some Crap about Natural Birth and Pain is good.She may? How nice of you to give permission. ;)

I believe that for the male fetus, a vaginal birth is necessary to make him a heterosexual. Like the salmon, he needs firsthand experience to know where he's trying to get back to...

See, my reasoning is, if they end up having to stich me up anyway, I'd rather have the painfull scar on my belly, thanks.

its a whole different level of stitching.

c-section is major surgery, episiotomy is a small cut.

after vaginal birth you can go home the next day. you can tend to your baby with few problems. after c-section you stay in hospital for many days, risk surgical complications and have a hard time taking care of your baby.

there is no easy way to get an 8 pound person out of your body. you cant avoid pain. you cant avoid mess. you cant avoid risk. vaginal birth is easiest on your body (provided there are no complications). c-sections are for the exceptions not for the commonplace.

:| I definately never want a baby now.

I've not yet been pregnant, so I can't say for sure, but I'm pretty set on having a vaginal birth unless a C-section is absolutely necessary. I'd even think about the possibility of having a midwife present, with a doctor coming in only if necessary.

I may or may not need painkillers (my mother's labor was over before an epidural could have taken effect - both times), but I wouldn't be opposed if I was going to go through a long birth.

See, I'm not at all pain tolerant... I'm a little weak sissy that way.

I think it must be psychological in my case... the idea of a cut sounds by far preferable to a needle in the back (which sort of creeps me out just thinking about it, I've got a severe phobia where needles are concerned. It's a miracle I survived being tatooed, really) and a possible tear.
I'm not really all that curious about what giving birth feels like. Knowing that it's a lot of pain is quite enough for me, I'm happy enough to be telling people for the rest of my life : Oh, It was a Caesarean, only took a couple minutes, really.

I know, I'm a wuss.

getting a c-section absolutely requires a needle in your spine, that's how they numb you for the surgery. It's not too bad, if they do it right..if you get someone who doesn't know how there is a bit of poking on nerves until they find the right one. *nod*

you have a TG btw.

if you ever want one again, go read some pregnancy books....that'll change your mind.

pregnancy and child birth is no fun time, it's gross and embarrassing and painful, and then you are left with kids.....forever.

lol

the oddest thing to me was that while in the hospital waiting to deliver, perfect strangers would walk into the room and stick their hands inside me with only the slightest of introductions.

:| I definately never want a baby now.

if you ever want one again, go read some pregnancy books....that'll change your mind.

pregnancy and child birth is no fun time, it's gross and embarrassing and painful, and then you are left with kids.....forever.

lol

the oddest thing to me was that while in the hospital waiting to deliver, perfect strangers would walk into the room and stick their hands inside me with only the slightest of introductions.

not only do they do that, but they shove it way in there, and poke and make faces and poke and make more faces and then finally I am like "can you stop that!?" and they pull their whole freaking arm out of me and write something down and leave...a new person comes and does it in an hour......:rolleyes:

lol

the oddest thing to me was that while in the hospital waiting to deliver, perfect strangers would walk into the room and stick their hands inside me with only the slightest of introductions.

My mother always said that you can't be modest anymore after giving birth. You've got your legs up in the air with everything hanging out for the world to see, with lots of people coming in and out.

Of course, I do remember my first yearly exam, when they said, "I'm going to feel your ovaries now" and my mental reaction was "Huh?! Aren't those...." And then it was rather uncomfortable.

My mother always said that you can't be modest anymore after giving birth. You've got your legs up in the air with everything hanging out for the world to see, with lots of people coming in and out.

Of course, I do remember my first yearly exam, when they said, "I'm going to feel your ovaries now" and my mental reaction was "Huh?! Aren't those...." And then it was rather uncomfortable.

having strangers poke around inside your vagina does kinda ruin the whole blushing maiden thing eh?

i suppose its for the best. its much better to think of your vagina as just another part of your body than it is to have it be some kind of sacred private spot.

See, my reasoning is, if they end up having to stich me up anyway, I'd rather have the painfull scar on my belly, thanks.

Well, if you've already made up your mind, why did you make the damn thread? :rolleyes:

the idea of a cut sounds by far preferable to a needle in the back (which sort of creeps me out just thinking about it, I've got a severe phobia where needles are concerned. It's a miracle I survived being tatooed, really) and a possible tear.

for the record, you have a "spinal" to have a c-section. fortunately, it's in your back, so you can't see the needle, if that kind of thing creeps you out. in fact, through the whole procedure, they hang a drape at your chest, so you can't see a damn thing, unless you have a nice surgeon and ask for a mirror. if someone is with you, they have to stay behind the drape, too. it's not the "baby getting handed right to you" kind of birth that you get delivering vaginally. they hold the baby up, so you can see them, then they get whisked off for their apgar scores and weight and footprints and all that. you can hear your baby going bonkers and everyone ooh and ahh at how how beautiful s/he is and you get to look at a big 'ol blue piece of paper or see everything in a mirror. you have to wait until you're all put back together and lying in recovery to be able to hold your baby for the first time.

and they don't stitch you up from a c-section. interally, yes, dissolving stitches, but externally, they use staples. you get them removed 5-7 days later. i called my abdomen "franken-tummy."

Wow.

So many pages, so few informed medical opinions. There is a lot of medical literture out ther that is easily accessible.

My personal experience, after reviewing the literature, is that the risks associated with medical intervention were far more widespread and more potentially dangerous than those associated with natural childbirth.

I strongly suggest that you do not take my word for it, or anyone else's. Including medical professionals. Often issues such as insurance and liability will cause a doctor to choose for an unnecessary intervention, in order to preclude any legal consequences should the delivery go awry.

Here is a link that discusses the issues:
http://www.hencigoer.com/obmyth/

You may end up disagreeing with most of it, but it is a well referenced look at the medical literature, and will help inform you of the latest findings. It's your body. Your decision. Make it an informed one.

My mother always said that you can't be modest anymore after giving birth. You've got your legs up in the air with everything hanging out for the world to see, with lots of people coming in and out. No one told me that but boy is it ever true...complete strangers saw me at my worst, as if I was going to care that someone might walk by the room and see me breastfeeding my newborn. My significant other was aghast!

Well, if you've already made up your mind, why did you make the damn thread? :rolleyes:

Saying why she's leaning towards one more than the other doesn't mean she's set her decision in stone, now does it? *insert roll eyes*

I believe that for the male fetus, a vaginal birth is necessary to make him a heterosexual. Like the salmon, he needs firsthand experience to know where he's trying to get back to...

Oh, well, that's ok then, I want a gay son anyway.
So much more fun to go shopping with and so much better round the house, too.

Well, if you've already made up your mind, why did you make the damn thread? :rolleyes:

Cause I haven't... not really. I had only recently even considered having a voluntary caesarean, but I don't know cause it'll be so risky. But vaginal can be sooooo long, and it.. well, scares me shitless.

Oh, well, that's ok then, I want a gay son anyway. Oh don't say that...I got torn into when I stated I wished my kids were gay/transgendered :P Cuz that makes you as bad as homophobes dontchaknow.

No one told me that but boy is it ever true...complete strangers saw me at my worst, as if I was going to care that someone might walk by the room and see me breastfeeding my newborn. My significant other was aghast!

LOL

I remember my uncle getting really upset when my aunt breastfed in front of us. She used a little blanket and everything, but it bothered the heck out of him.

Considering some of the debates about breastfeeding now, I wonder what he would've thought if she'd breastfed in public. =)

Wow.

So many pages, so few informed medical opinions. There is a lot of medical literture out ther that is easily accessible.

My personal experience, after reviewing the literature, is that the risks associated with medical intervention were far more widespread and more potentially dangerous than those associated with natural childbirth.

I strongly suggest that you do not take my word for it, or anyone else's. Including medical professionals. Often issues such as insurance and liability will cause a doctor to choose for an unnecessary intervention, in order to preclude any legal consequences should the delivery go awry.

Here is a link that discusses the issues:
http://www.hencigoer.com/obmyth/

You may end up disagreeing with most of it, but it is a well referenced look at the medical literature, and will help inform you of the latest findings. It's your body. Your decision. Make it an informed one.

in the US at least if you are determined NOT to have a c-section you need to read up on it. its important to know when it really is indicated and when its not. the best thing you can do is to ask hospital and doctor about their c-section rates. it varies widely by doctor and by facility. have your sig.other or birthing coach read up on it too so when the time comes s/he can help you make an informed decision.

Cause I haven't... not really. I had only recently even considered having a voluntary caesarean, but I don't know cause it'll be so risky. But vaginal can be sooooo long, and it.. well, scares me shitless.

Your body doesn't remember pain.

It's the only reason anyone does it more than once.

It'll hurt at the time, but it will pass more quickly than you believe.

Then again, there is always adoption...

Oh don't say that...I got torn into when I stated I wished my kids were gay/transgendered :P Cuz that makes you as bad as homophobes dontchaknow.

Ok, I'll rephrase : I'd be happy having a gay son. But I will of course accept him should he turn out to be hetero.

Your body doesn't remember pain.

It's the only reason anyone does it more than once.

It'll hurt at the time, but it will pass more quickly than you believe.

Then again, there is always adoption...

I think my favourite option would be to be unconscious throughout. Bascically sort of going into a coma right after being done with the pleasurable part of making the little buggers, and waking up again when they've just finished the first bath ;)

Nah, I'm exagerating now. But it is kinda scary. The only thing I'm looking for is squeezing my BF's hand to jelly while he has to keep being supportive ;)

I think my favourite option would be to be unconscious throughout. Bascically sort of going into a coma right after being done with the pleasurable part of making the little buggers, and waking up again when they've just finished the first bath ;)

Nah, I'm exagerating now. But it is kinda scary. The only thing I'm looking for is squeezing my BF's hand to jelly while he has to keep being supportive ;)
I totally injured my husband's hand....he nearly needed stitches. :p

I think my favourite option would be to be unconscious throughout. Bascically sort of going into a coma right after being done with the pleasurable part of making the little buggers, and waking up again when they've just finished the first bath ;)

Nah, I'm exagerating now. But it is kinda scary. The only thing I'm looking for is squeezing my BF's hand to jelly while he has to keep being supportive ;)

I think I'm weird. I understand that there is a lot of discomfort during the pregnancy (although I don't think it's nothing but discomfort) and that childbirth will be really painful. But I still want those experiences. And I'm not a masochist. I hate pain and I hate being sick or uncomfortable.

Is that incredibly weird?

How come you want him gay? *resists urge to make gay joke*

I think he might be more fun that way... we could fancy the same guys and all that.

Oh, well, that's ok then, I want a gay son anyway.
So much more fun to go shopping with and so much better round the house, too.

How come you want him gay? *resists urge to make gay joke*

I think I'm weird. I understand that there is a lot of discomfort during the pregnancy (although I don't think it's nothing but discomfort) and that childbirth will be really painful. But I still want those experiences. And I'm not a masochist. I hate pain and I hate being sick or uncomfortable.

Is that incredibly weird?

Well, I can't really understand why. But then, that's nothing unusual with me...
I don't think it's weird, many women seem to feel that way.

As a Dad of2 weeks I had to watch as Mrs Frisky had to have a C-section. We had planned to go throught the natural way but as Baby Frisky was determined not to come out head first. That was the last thing that Mrs Frisky wanted so somethings cannot be helped.
My advice would be do what you feel is right as things go along!

I can't imagine ever having a need or want to birth a child. Ever. Thus, no decision. :P

Saying why she's leaning towards one more than the other doesn't mean she's set her decision in stone, now does it? *insert roll eyes*

No, but arguing with anyone who prefers the "natural way" certainly suggests that she's made up her mind.

Cause I haven't... not really. I had only recently even considered having a voluntary caesarean, but I don't know cause it'll be so risky. But vaginal can be sooooo long, and it.. well, scares me shitless.

Well, judging from the replies I've read thus far, you have attacked anyone who has encouraged the "natural way". Perhaps it would be worth your while listening to people's comments (especially the women), rather than arguing about it, because being open minded will help you make your ultimite decision.

If you can, I think the best thing if you're scared might be to talk to your own mother about her experience.

*snip*
I’d never have a voluntary c-section if it wasn’t medically indicated. It’s major surgery and our bodies are (usually) built to be very efficient at giving birth naturally. It’s the “easier” way to give birth. On the other hand, having to resort to a c-section after being in labor does not mean that you’ve been a “failure at childbirth” (I’ve heard people actually say stupid things like this), nor does it have to be a horribly frightening experience, as long as you know what to expect. My first was a bit scary, because it was an emergency, and I was concerned about the health of my child, but the second (planned) one was very calm, relaxed and civilized.

I wouldn't want to have a c-section unless I had to either, but I absolutely 100% agree that someone who needs to is not a "failure". There's nothing wrong with c-sections.

After a C-section, the best thing to do, as much as it feels like your insides are going to slip through your incision and spill onto the floor, is to force yourself to get up and move around as soon as they let you. It hurts, but it’s really the best way to speed up recovery. Yes, coughing and laughing hurts for a bit. Throwing up from being on morphine post-surgery was the worst – I was given Demerol the second time around and tolerated that much better. I was only on the drip for a day, perhaps, had other painkillers for the second day, then went to Tylenol. I was in the hospital for 4 days with each baby…having a vaginal birth and getting home sooner would have been preferable.

Owch.

Were you able to breastfeed on the painkillers?

You’re not supposed to lift anything “much heavier than the baby” for the first couple of weeks, and to avoid sex for 6 to 8 weeks afterwards to avoid infection, depending on your situation. The scar is not pretty, but it’s low, so if your tummy hasn’t been totally wrecked from pregnancy (lucky you), you can go back to two piece bathing suits. The scar site hurts for a while; it was probably a 2-3 months of being very aware of it, a year or so of pins and needles and a “pulling” feeling, and then it goes numb. Sometimes mine feels a little itchy, and it’s been 6 years.

Owch, that sounds like the scar I have on my ankle. I scar quite badly, so I would really prefer not to have one on my stomach. Is it hard to look after the baby if you're in that much pain as well?

Not that I'm a medical professional, but I'm given to understand that c-sections have a high risk of negative side effects all over, including sterility and more risk to the child.
Natural birth has its risks as well, but I understand that most of them pass once the kid is out or shortly thereafter.
Of course, my education on this subject is limited to what I remember from my high school 'health' class, so I may not be qualified :P

Either way, you'll probably be so high on painkillers at the time that you wouldnt notice if somebody set your hair on fire.
I'd go with vaginal, unless there are, God forbid, complications which actually require a c-section.

I'm pretty sure an Epidural actually numbs the lower half of your body: It doesn't make you high or unable to notice your hair being on fire, from what I understand.

*snip*

Unless you really need it, I don't know why you'd want a C-section. It's a surgery, it carries quite a few risks, and it takes a lot longer to heal up after (assuming no major complications during a vaginal birth).

I agree. If the pain is anything like it is after having appendix surgery (actually, I'm assuming it's much worse, because the cut is larger), I can't see myself choosing the c-section unless I absolutely had to.

*snip* paralysis *snip*

I didn't realise there was a risk of paralysis. Scary.

I believe that for the male fetus, a vaginal birth is necessary to make him a heterosexual. Like the salmon, he needs firsthand experience to know where he's trying to get back to...

Uh, I don't know if he should be trying to get back into his mother's vagina.

getting a c-section absolutely requires a needle in your spine, that's how they numb you for the surgery. It's not too bad, if they do it right..if you get someone who doesn't know how there is a bit of poking on nerves until they find the right one. *nod*

you have a TG btw.

I thought c-sections were done under anesthetic. I might be wrong.

*snip* it's much better to think of your vagina as just another part of your body than it is to have it be some kind of sacred private spot.

In terms of doctors, I agree.

Wow.

So many pages, so few informed medical opinions.

If someone wants purely medical opinions they wouldn't be stupid enough to ask it on a Nationstates forum.

I was born by C-section because I was trying to come out feet-first. I think because of that my mom had to get a C-section for my brothers, too. I think my mom still has the scar or something from that, but I'm not sure.

No, but arguing with anyone who prefers the "natural way" certainly suggests that she's made up her mind.



Well, judging from the replies I've read thus far, you have attacked anyone who has encouraged the "natural way". Perhaps it would be worth your while listening to people's comments (especially the women), rather than arguing about it, because being open minded will help you make your ultimite decision.

If you can, I think the best thing if you're scared might be to talk to your own mother about her experience.

Yes and no. I've most certainly been listening to people giving me the pros and cons, weighing them up against each other in my head. But I did snap at people who told me to go "natural", cause that's how it's "meant to be". I've generally got very little patience for this kind of fatalistic thinking, sorry.

And, no, my mom wouldn't be the person to go to. She had her kids cause "it's what you do when you're married, you have kids", and the way she describes the experience it's perfect hell from start to finish. :(

If someone wants purely medical opinions they wouldn't be stupid enough to ask it on a Nationstates forum.

Exactly. I've read up on the medical bits a little, but what I mostly am looking for now is personal experiences and advise.

c-section is a surgery and a last resource to save both mother and child life
all surgeries have their risks..

so you go for the natural way, (it'll hurt but epidural will help) and if it fails, them we go for the c-section..

and after all...pain is good, makes you give it more importance (yes, there are mother that simply dont care about their childs...)

anyway, who am i to talk?^^

PS:you can only have 3 c-sections, and the risk of infections and other stuff, get higher at each one...

for the ones who say the natural way is messy: the natural way tends to be the best, but if we help a little bit, it gets suprisingly perfect..we shouldnt make everything our way, instead, we should help what nature perfected for thousands of years..

Yes and no. I've most certainly been listening to people giving me the pros and cons, weighing them up against each other in my head. But I did snap at people who told me to go "natural", cause that's how it's "meant to be". I've generally got very little patience for this kind of fatalistic thinking, sorry.

And, no, my mom wouldn't be the person to go to. She had her kids cause "it's what you do when you're married, you have kids", and the way she describes the experience it's perfect hell from start to finish. :(

ask her if she regrets...
mine always say: "hell no!!!":D (something like that, as she doesnt speak english...:p)

Yes and no. I've most certainly been listening to people giving me the pros and cons, weighing them up against each other in my head. But I did snap at people who told me to go "natural", cause that's how it's "meant to be". I've generally got very little patience for this kind of fatalistic thinking, sorry.

I don't think it's completely irrational to go with the "natural way" unless there's a clear reason not to. Most of the time, there's nothing "broken" about natural birth, so there's nothing to correct. C-sections were developed so that abnormal births that would be quite dangerous are now less so, but I don't think it's a good idea to do them routinely.

It's sort of like most modern medicine. By all means, take antibiotics if you have a bacterial infection, but you shouldn't just be on antibiotics all the time.

Pregnancy and birth are not pathological, so I feel that you shouldn't try and "correct" them unless there's actually something wrong.

Does that make sense?

ask her if she regrets...
mine always say: "hell no!!!":D (something like that, as she doesnt speak english...:p)

I did. She says "Well, no, not as such... but if I was young again, I don't think I'd do it again"

I don't think it's completely irrational to go with the "natural way" unless there's a clear reason not to. Most of the time, there's nothing "broken" about natural birth, so there's nothing to correct. C-sections were developed so that abnormal births that would be quite dangerous are now less so, but I don't think it's a good idea to do them routinely.

It's sort of like most modern medicine. By all means, take antibiotics if you have a bacterial infection, but you shouldn't just be on antibiotics all the time.

Pregnancy and birth are not pathological, so I feel that you shouldn't try and "correct" them unless there's actually something wrong.

Does that make sense?

In a way, yes. If it's not broken, don't fix it, basically. Only I can't help thinking of it as pathological in a way...

I don't think it's completely irrational to go with the "natural way" unless there's a clear reason not to. Most of the time, there's nothing "broken" about natural birth, so there's nothing to correct. C-sections were developed so that abnormal births that would be quite dangerous are now less so, but I don't think it's a good idea to do them routinely.

It's sort of like most modern medicine. By all means, take antibiotics if you have a bacterial infection, but you shouldn't just be on antibiotics all the time.
*snip*

Exactly... Also, you could, hypothetically, be on antibiotics all of the time, but there's no point taking them unless you're sick. You could have your appendix removed, but there's no reason to undergo major surgery unless you have appendicitus etc.

Exactly... Also, you could, hypothetically, be on antibiotics all of the time, but there's no point taking them unless you're sick. You could have your appendix removed, but there's no reason to undergo major surgery unless you have appendicitus etc.

Actually, if you were on antibiotics all the time you'd die.

Luckily, I don't have to worry about such petty issues.

Sadly, I can't have kids.

Owch.

Were you able to breastfeed on the painkillers?
when you tell them you are going to breastfeed they put you on pain killers that don't pass, I didn't need anything other than tylenol after the first day though.



I thought c-sections were done under anesthetic. I might be wrong.
they used to be all the time, now it depends on the emergent part of the emergency, it's actually safer to do a spinal block.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidural

I was awake the entire time both c-sections, I just couldn't move anything below my ribcage, it's a weird feeling to have a scrub nurse to ask you to wiggle your toes and to be unable to do so.

they used to be all the time, now it depends on the emergent part of the emergency, it's actually safer to do a spinal block.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidural

I was awake the entire time both c-sections, I just couldn't move anything below my ribcage, it's a weird feeling to have a scrub nurse to ask you to wiggle your toes and to be unable to do so.

I really liked the feeling, When I tried to push my legs down to press against the bed it felt, in my head, like they were passing right through it.

C-Sections are a big scam. Have it the old fashioned way like a big girl, just like they've done it for the last thousands of years.

I really liked the feeling, When I tried to push my legs down to press against the bed it felt, in my head, like they were passing right through it.
oh, I could "feel" my toes wiggling, but I couldn't see them doing it!

also, when they moved me from one bed to another, I felt like I was flying.

C-Sections are a big scam. Have it the old fashioned way like a big girl, just like they've done it for the last thousands of years.

open heart surgery is a big scam, just die like a big boy, just like they've done for the last thousands of years.

I am getting close to delivering my first baby. As of right now, a vaginal birth is what I am looking toward, hopefully all goes well and I won't have to have a c-section. As it gets closer though, I am getting scared to have either, and even more scared of what comes after! :eek:

Owch.

Were you able to breastfeed on the painkillers?


I wasn’t able to breastfeed, despite hoping to, but that’s another issue. IIRC, my docs told me that not enough of the meds are passed along to the baby in milk to be medically significant to keep you from breastfeeding, but the other thing is that after two days, you’re not really on anything more than acetaminophen (at least I wasn’t). A more “strict” person may not feel comfortable with that, though. That’s an“ask your doc” question.




Owch, that sounds like the scar I have on my ankle. I scar quite badly, so I would really prefer not to have one on my stomach. Is it hard to look after the baby if you're in that much pain as well?


No. It’s uncomfortable, but do-able. Babies eat, sleep and poop. You lift them up, put them down, feed them, change them, clean them up a little, and talk to them. You spend hours staring at them wondering what the hell is going on in their little brains. The stuff I needed help with was things like laundry, cooking, and general housework, especially for the first couple of weeks. After a couple of weeks, I was in much better shape.



I thought c-sections were done under anesthetic. I might be wrong.



For my scheduled c-section, they numbed me from mid-back down with a spinal. I was wide awake. When my first was delivered via emergency c-section, I’d already had an epidural in, so they were able to go in quickly, but I was alert. If I hadn’t already had the epidural in, I don’t know if they’d have put something in my IV port and knocked me out or not.


People are so militant about childbirth (and parenting in general.) I try to be compassionate about it, because I know there are exceptions and valid reasons for having “non-natural” interventions. You can plan everything to the nth degree, and sometimes it just doesn’t work out that way. Being a mother is difficult enough – the last thing we need to be doing is beating ourselves (or each other) up over every last thing that didn’t work out exactly how we planned. Our bodies (and our babies) are incredibly resilient things. We are far more powerful and strong than we give ourselves credit for. But having alternatives doesn’t make us a failure. When the end result is a happy healthy child and mother, it’s all good.

For all the weirdness around the pregnancy/childbirth process, it all pales in comparison to actually raising a kid. Life gets far, far stranger once they’re out.

The worst thing about being pregnant is the sudden urge every woman around you feels to tell you the most horrific stories of childbirth. Seriously. "Oh my god I was in labour for 30 hours!" (What she's not telling you is that only an hour and a half of that was hard labour at the very most, and the rest was just regular cramping). "Oh my god I tore so bad...." (What she's not telling you is that it's not that bad, yes you can tear, but they stitch you up quickly, and face it, you're going to be sore down there for a while regardless) "Oh my god I burst blood vessels in my eyes/broke my pelvis pushing/blah blah blah...." (SHUT UP!!!!)

Why do we do this to one another? To gloat? To show how tough we are? Or just to scare the living shit out of other women because we are evil bitches? I only offer my experiences when asked, and I always say....it's not really that bad. I've experienced worse pain when my bike got clipped by a car and I ended up with gravel in my knee.

I am getting close to delivering my first baby. As of right now, a vaginal birth is what I am looking toward, hopefully all goes well and I won't have to have a c-section. As it gets closer though, I am getting scared to have either, and even more scared of what comes after! :eek:

Congratulations! Don't be scared. You were built for this. Arm yourself with information -- it's not meant to scare you, but if you know what could happen, it helps keep it from being a surprise if it does.

Having kids is fascinating and scary all at the same time. You'll do just fine. Enjoy your baby!

Well you obviously feel that the pain you subject us to is good, else you'd have giving up the ridiculous capitalisation long ago.

Flame

She may? How nice of you to give permission. ;)

Her Choice, her Body. I'm Not a religous nut who belives one thing is better than another in such matters.

Flame

Eating your bait, more likely.

Asking me to choose between giving birth vaginally or having a C-section is like asking a guy to choose between having his penis cut in half lengthwise or having his balls stapled to his belly button.

Eating your bait, more likely.

Complaining about a person's typing?
That's bait.
Okaaaaay.

How come Some women want a "Natural Birth"?

(ie No pain killers)

The worst thing about being pregnant is the sudden urge every woman around you feels to tell you the most horrific stories of childbirth. Seriously. "Oh my god I was in labour for 30 hours!"
I dunno, I think the worst part is how total strangers suddenly feel it's their right to rub your belly and tell you what you should be eating.

I saw this happen with my mom throughout her pregnancy with my brother. Total and complete strangers putting their hands on you without permission, and then warning you ominously of how your baby will be born with extra limbs if you dare to eat grapefruit while pregnant.

I think all the lamaze classes should include a day or two of introductory Judo, so that pregnant women can effortlessly throw such nosy strangers into walls.

I dunno, I think the worst part is how total strangers suddenly feel it's their right to rub your belly and tell you what you should be eating.

I saw this happen with my mom throughout her pregnancy with my brother. Total and complete strangers putting their hands on you without permission, and then warning you ominously of how your baby will be born with extra limbs if you dare to eat grapefruit while pregnant.

I think all the lamaze classes should include a day or two of introductory Judo, so that pregnant women can effortlessly throw such nosy strangers into walls.

Its funny your mention this- what is it with people that think pregnancy is some invitation to touch?

My wife was 8 months pregnant and very uncomfortable and looking to do something normal,so we went out to dinner at one of our favorite places.
In accordance with our "normal" wishes, we are walking out the door after eating and some wild eyed and haired woman makes a sudden movement toward my wife's abdomen with both hands,rings on every finger.
I stiff armed this loon to the door and had both of her wrists clamped in my other hand.
My forearm has her neck pinned to the door and she squeaks out "Its ok,I'm a witch. Your wife is going to have a boy".

I was scared to let her go,thinking as son as she was free,she'd do something else nutty. She didnt look like she was the type to eat at that place-I swear she was lying in wait for us.

I drove home as if I was being followed and once had a nightmare about her.

and after my kids were born-old ladies in the store believe they are allowed to touch the kids cheeks.

On several occaisons I have yelled "Hey" as they reach for them.

I dont just touch things I think are cute...anymore.


I taught my oldest son,when he was still little,that when an old lady looks at him to lift his lip and growl.

to this day,he gives me a smirk and sideways glance when we are talking to an old lady.

I don't think it's completely irrational to go with the "natural way" unless there's a clear reason not to. Most of the time, there's nothing "broken" about natural birth, so there's nothing to correct. C-sections were developed so that abnormal births that would be quite dangerous are now less so, but I don't think it's a good idea to do them routinely.



during a natural delivery, a good nurse does most of the work and monitoring.

the doctor is the one you rely on to make the correct judgement if something is wrong.

I know a policeman that delivered two babies over the course of his career in the back of a police car. If all goes well, a doctor isnt needed.
But you often dont know about a problem til that moment.

I don't think it's completely irrational to go with the "natural way" unless there's a clear reason not to. Most of the time, there's nothing "broken" about natural birth, so there's nothing to correct.

I dunno about that. How "natural" are you thinking, here?

Infant and maternal mortality rates are much higher out if the woman's giving birth out in the forest, after all.

Modern medicine is largely predicated on the notion that plenty of things which naturally happen to humans are also unnecessary discomforts or hassles. It's natural for your leg to hurt after you break it, but that doesn't mean you should forgo all medical help simply because broken legs tend to "naturally" mend on their own.


C-sections were developed so that abnormal births that would be quite dangerous are now less so, but I don't think it's a good idea to do them routinely.

It's sort of like most modern medicine. By all means, take antibiotics if you have a bacterial infection, but you shouldn't just be on antibiotics all the time.

I certainly agree that C-sections are waaaaaaay over used these days. I recommend folks check out "The Business Of Being Born" for some freaky info on this topic.


Pregnancy and birth are not pathological, so I feel that you shouldn't try and "correct" them unless there's actually something wrong.

Does that make sense?
It makes sense, I just sorta disagree. Kind of a half-disagreement.

I'm all for the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" school of medicine. My mother had two vaginal births without serious incident, and is very glad of it. However, Mom's first baby was "naturally" born with her umbilical cord throttling her, and said infant would "naturally" have died. Mom's second baby would have torn her open pretty damn badly if the birth had been 100% "natural," due to my brother being a massive infant and my mother being a very petite woman. However, a surgical episiotomy allowed for a more controlled (and easily repaired) widening of the vaginal opening.

I lean toward, "Take each situation as it comes." Personally, I don't think anybody should give a rat's ass about whether their birthing is "natural" or not, as long as it is safe and healthy.

From what I understand, regular delivery is probably the preferable option. I was personally born via C-section, but that was due to the fact that I was large for a baby (9lbs and 6oz.), and my mother's pelvis couldn't accomodate my passage. Granted, it is cool that I am not of woman born, but my sisters were delivered naturally, and my mom said she preferred that to birthing me. Granted, she also said raising me was much easier than that of my sisters, but since they're younger, I think she just might have been exaggerating.

when I was pregnant this old man came up and put his hand on my belly, so I took my hand and stuck it right on his belly and stared at him.....he turned bright red and walked off. I guess those people don't like it when you touch back. I have found much success with this. I continued when the kids were babies and people reached down and touched their cheek I would just reach up and touch the adult's cheek. When they asked if I was breast feeding I would ask when the last time they had a bowel movement was. When they asked if I had a "natural birth" I would ask them if they had done a self test for testicular cancer lately. It works great!

I would have tried one of those if I could take my mind off of grabbing their necks and shaking them.

Its funny your mention this- what is it with people that think pregnancy is some invitation to touch?

My wife was 8 months pregnant and very uncomfortable and looking to do something normal,so we went out to dinner at one of our favorite places.
In accordance with our "normal" wishes, we are walking out the door after eating and some wild eyed and haired woman makes a sudden movement toward my wife's abdomen with both hands,rings on every finger.
I stiff armed this loon to the door and had both of her wrists clamped in my other hand.
My forearm has her neck pinned to the door and she squeaks out "Its ok,I'm a witch. Your wife is going to have a boy".

I was scared to let her go,thinking as son as she was free,she'd do something else nutty. She didnt look like she was the type to eat at that place-I swear she was lying in wait for us.

I drove home as if I was being followed and once had a nightmare about her.

when I was pregnant this old man came up and put his hand on my belly, so I took my hand and stuck it right on his belly and stared at him.....he turned bright red and walked off. I guess those people don't like it when you touch back. I have found much success with this. I continued when the kids were babies and people reached down and touched their cheek I would just reach up and touch the adult's cheek. When they asked if I was breast feeding I would ask when the last time they had a bowel movement was. When they asked if I had a "natural birth" I would ask them if they had done a self test for testicular cancer lately. It works great!

The worst thing about being pregnant is the sudden urge every woman around you feels to tell you the most horrific stories of childbirth. Seriously. "Oh my god I was in labour for 30 hours!" (What she's not telling you is that only an hour and a half of that was hard labour at the very most, and the rest was just regular cramping). "Oh my god I tore so bad...." (What she's not telling you is that it's not that bad, yes you can tear, but they stitch you up quickly, and face it, you're going to be sore down there for a while regardless) "Oh my god I burst blood vessels in my eyes/broke my pelvis pushing/blah blah blah...." (SHUT UP!!!!)

Why do we do this to one another? To gloat? To show how tough we are? Or just to scare the living shit out of other women because we are evil bitches? I only offer my experiences when asked, and I always say....it's not really that bad. I've experienced worse pain when my bike got clipped by a car and I ended up with gravel in my knee.

I'm begining to think it's the female version of "Mine's bigger than yours"...

when I was pregnant this old man came up and put his hand on my belly, so I took my hand and stuck it right on his belly and stared at him.....he turned bright red and walked off. I guess those people don't like it when you touch back. I have found much success with this. I continued when the kids were babies and people reached down and touched their cheek I would just reach up and touch the adult's cheek. When they asked if I was breast feeding I would ask when the last time they had a bowel movement was. When they asked if I had a "natural birth" I would ask them if they had done a self test for testicular cancer lately. It works great!
Holy crap that's awesome. I'm totally going to employ this strategy.

I don't think it's completely irrational to go with the "natural way" unless there's a clear reason not to. Most of the time, there's nothing "broken" about natural birth, so there's nothing to correct. C-sections were developed so that abnormal births that would be quite dangerous are now less so, but I don't think it's a good idea to do them routinely.

It's sort of like most modern medicine. By all means, take antibiotics if you have a bacterial infection, but you shouldn't just be on antibiotics all the time.

Pregnancy and birth are not pathological, so I feel that you shouldn't try and "correct" them unless there's actually something wrong.

Does that make sense?

That pretty much sums it up. It's not completely safe, and the natural way is best, just like your antibiotics example- but if you really, really need to, then do what you need to do.

I'm begining to think it's the female version of "Mine's bigger than yours"...
Heh, figures that my mom would fail at that game, then, since my dad is also the sort of guy who would simply give a blank stare at the "mine's bigger" contests.

My dad's always been cool because he honestly doesn't seem to give a fuck whether or not other men think he's manly. He allowed my young cousins to paint his toes at a family reunion, and when some of the Uncles started giving him crap about it my dad just blandly remarked that he wished the girls hadn't chosen that precise shade of purple because it wasn't flattering with his skin tone.

Similarly, my mother completely wasted her Female Birthing Cred by admitting that she was in labor for less than 4 hours with me (total), and closer to 3 with my brother.

It's actually been a running joke in my family that my birth was harder for ME than for my mom. Instead of her using the "I was in labor for 72 hours with you, child!" line to guilt me, I would go after her with "I spent 4 hours getting shoved around your vagina, being strangled by my umbi cord, having my skull distended by your damnable cervix, woman!"

when I was pregnant this old man came up and put his hand on my belly, so I took my hand and stuck it right on his belly and stared at him.....he turned bright red and walked off. I guess those people don't like it when you touch back. I have found much success with this. I continued when the kids were babies and people reached down and touched their cheek I would just reach up and touch the adult's cheek. When they asked if I was breast feeding I would ask when the last time they had a bowel movement was. When they asked if I had a "natural birth" I would ask them if they had done a self test for testicular cancer lately. It works great!

Well, I live in Ireland, see? None of these would work here, really. People don't object to being touched, and are more than happy to talk to total strangers about absolutely anything...

I guess I'll just have to build up a tolerance.

Well, I live in Ireland, see? None of these would work here, really. People don't object to being touched, and are more than happy to talk to total strangers about absolutely anything...

I guess I'll just have to build up a tolerance.
I think if I lived in a culture where touching and nosy personal questions were the norm, then this kind of stuff wouldn't bug me as much. It mostly annoys me because people seem to think that pregnant women don't deserve the same "personal space" as everyone else. Like becoming pregnant suddenly makes you public property, and therefore everyone can treat you in ways that they would NEVER treat a non-pregnant person.

I dunno about that. How "natural" are you thinking, here?

By "natural", I was really just thinking "vaginal." While I think I would like to go with a midwife one of these days when I do have a child, I'll certainly want to do it in one of the centers that has doctors on hand. If I need an epidural, episiotomy, or emergency C-section, medical attention will be right at hand.

Well, pushing out a baby might hurt, but surely the prospect of having your belly sliced open is more frightening?

Disclaimer: I am not a medical professional.

C-Sections are a big scam. Have it the old fashioned way like a big girl, just like they've done it for the last thousands of years.


You clearly don't have a pussy.

I think if I lived in a culture where touching and nosy personal questions were the norm, then this kind of stuff wouldn't bug me as much. It mostly annoys me because people seem to think that pregnant women don't deserve the same "personal space" as everyone else. Like becoming pregnant suddenly makes you public property, and therefore everyone can treat you in ways that they would NEVER treat a non-pregnant person.

Meh. If someone I don't want to touch me, touches my belly, I'd just deck them. Or have someone else deck them... Hmm...

RhynoDD;13501801']My pussy's name is Chaucer.


I was going to get a C-section, but the doctor told me that my penis would get in the way.

I have two. Hitomi and Neneko.:D

You clearly don't have a pussy.

My pussy's name is Chaucer.


I was going to get a C-section, but the doctor told me that my penis would get in the way.

All this talk about C-sections and pain make me not want to ever have a child. Ever ever ever ever ever.....

when I was pregnant this old man came up and put his hand on my belly, so I took my hand and stuck it right on his belly and stared at him.....he turned bright red and walked off. I guess those people don't like it when you touch back. I have found much success with this. I continued when the kids were babies and people reached down and touched their cheek I would just reach up and touch the adult's cheek. When they asked if I was breast feeding I would ask when the last time they had a bowel movement was. When they asked if I had a "natural birth" I would ask them if they had done a self test for testicular cancer lately. It works great!

So. Much. Win.

Ahem... Ask your gynecologist?
Either way find a good anesthesiologist.

We aren't meant for artificial foods and now we have an obesity problem

Do you know what problem the world had before having an obesity problem? That's right, a STARVATION problem. Very, very recently [less than 600 years ago], starvation and famine were common in Europe. Today, we send UN doctors into NIGERIA to help people with obesity. I'd say this is an improvement

Did you ever notice that when taking a walk in the forest or on the beach deep down a part of you feels satisfied?

Eh, no.

Besides, the more a mother feels pain during childbirth the stronger the love the mother has for her young.

Are you male?

Do you know what problem the world had before having an obesity problem? That's right, a STARVATION problem. Very, very recently [less than 600 years ago], starvation and famine were common in Europe. Today, we send UN doctors into NIGERIA to help people with obesity. I'd say this is an improvement


600? More like 150, for Ireland. And even less for Germany (I think the last massive starvation there was in the winter 1916/1917)

I've been wondering for a while now... when I'm having kids, would I want a vaginal birth or a ceasarean section?
I have to admit, both options are rather scary to me (I don't take pain well... at all), but which one would be easier?

CS is medical treatment. Unnecessary CS is unnecessary surgery, and, as such, should be avoided.
A heavily invasive CS (there are different CS types, according to necessity) could make future pregnancies very dangerous, due to permanent tissue damage (happened to my mother). Also, eventual scars in the uterus may rise the chances of fibroma formation.
About the pain, remember that the endocrine system releases a lot of painkillers during pregnancy and expecially labor.

So, go CS if there's danger for you or the foetus, not to just to avoid the pain.


On the humorous side, from wiki:childbirth, this one:

Orgasm during childbirth
Some women experience orgasm during childbirth.[4][5] There are similarities between the process of orgasm and childbirth; both involve involuntary contractions of some of the same muscles. Orgasm releases endorphins which can mediate the pain of labor, as well as the hormone oxytocin, which is known to play an important role in labor as well as mother-child attachment. Some people have speculated that sexual repression, in particular, the repression of women's sexuality, may be holding more women back both from having an orgasmic experience with childbirth, and from accepting and sharing the experience when they do have it. [6] One doctor commented that he had seen a few women have an orgasmic experience during birth, but speculated that many women may interpret them as pain because they are so conditioned to expect pain.

;)

600? More like 150, for Ireland. And even less for Germany (I think the last massive starvation there was in the winter 1916/1917)

Well, thank you.

It supports my point.

On the humorous side, from wiki:childbirth, this one:

Orgasm during childbirth
Some women experience orgasm during childbirth.[4][5] There are similarities between the process of orgasm and childbirth; both involve involuntary contractions of some of the same muscles. Orgasm releases endorphins which can mediate the pain of labor, as well as the hormone oxytocin, which is known to play an important role in labor as well as mother-child attachment. Some people have speculated that sexual repression, in particular, the repression of women's sexuality, may be holding more women back both from having an orgasmic experience with childbirth, and from accepting and sharing the experience when they do have it. [6] One doctor commented that he had seen a few women have an orgasmic experience during birth, but speculated that many women may interpret them as pain because they are so conditioned to expect pain.

;)
Hmm... PRETTY sure it was pain my wife was going through. She made sure to share the love though by trying her absolute best to crush my hand. ;)

I have two. Hitomi and Neneko.:D

You have two penises named Hitomi and Neneko!? :eek:

My mum gave birth to one of my two sisters by c-section, the other three of us were delivered naturally. She said before that having a c-section when it's unnecessary is madness, apparantly the recovery period was long and absolutely awful. With the natural births it was over and done with and she was allowed home very soon.

My wife was fortunate enough to go natural with my son (well, not totally natural for you sticklers, there was pain medication involved), while my sister-in-law had a CS for her daughter. My wife's recovery period (to the point when I wasn't adressing her every need) was about two weeks, three to use stairs without pain. Willi (our son) was a big chunk of baby. My sister-in-law was about two months from the CS.

And they have some pretty good drugs now-a-days. My wife said the fear of the pain was a lot worse than the actual pain. No sign of an orgasm though. The pain medication probably robbed her of that chance.

And they have some pretty good drugs now-a-days...No sign of an orgasm though...The pain medication probably robbed her of that chance.

So for those of you that like child-birth porn, remember, no drugs...they rob you of your orgasm! Those thieves!

So for those of you that like child-birth porn, remember, no drugs...they rob you of your orgasm! Those thieves!

The police told me they don't have any leads yet. :(

RhynoDD;13502915']You have two penises named Hitomi and Neneko!? :eek:

No, I think she meant C-sections.
Kidding, kidding.

Congratulations! Don't be scared. You were built for this. Arm yourself with information -- it's not meant to scare you, but if you know what could happen, it helps keep it from being a surprise if it does.

Having kids is fascinating and scary all at the same time. You'll do just fine. Enjoy your baby!

Thanks!:) My husband has three children from a previous marriage so I have a very small taste of what it will be like when she gets older (considering they only visit on the weekends). It's the baby part that scares me. I have been around babies a little, but not enough to really know what I will be doing. Luckily my hubby will be there to guide me through my panic attacks! :p

the fact that you are worried means you will be a good mom, the anxious ones always are. *nod*

She will be. That's why I married her ;)

Thanks!:) My husband has three children from a previous marriage so I have a very small taste of what it will be like when she gets older (considering they only visit on the weekends). It's the baby part that scares me. I have been around babies a little, but not enough to really know what I will be doing. Luckily my hubby will be there to guide me through my panic attacks! :p

the fact that you are worried means you will be a good mom, the anxious ones always are. *nod*

No, I think she meant C-sections.
Kidding, kidding.
Ah, well that makes more sense. Glad that's all cleared up, then.

No worries. My wife and I were (and are) in the same boat but after 5 months I've come to realize that babies are tough little suckers so as long as you take some care, they'll be fine.

Though I swear my son does things just to see that heart attack look on my face. :p

ooohhhh 5 months is such a cute age. the perfect little baby age! you must have a pic you could post.

Thanks!:) My husband has three children from a previous marriage so I have a very small taste of what it will be like when she gets older (considering they only visit on the weekends). It's the baby part that scares me. I have been around babies a little, but not enough to really know what I will be doing. Luckily my hubby will be there to guide me through my panic attacks! :p
No worries. My wife and I were (and are) in the same boat but after 5 months I've come to realize that babies are tough little suckers so as long as you take some care, they'll be fine.

Though I swear my son does things just to see that heart attack look on my face. :p

Vaginal birth all the way.

C-Sections are reserved for women for whom vaginal birth would be a risk. Women with gestational diabetes, women whose deliveries are overdue, women whose babies are large, or who have some kind of circumstance that would prevent vaginal birth.

For example: A woman I knew a year or so ago had no birth canal. Bottom line, her upper and lower vagina had never connected. Therefore, after IVF, she had a c-section. That is a circumstance; if you don't have any, have a vaginal birth.

Furthermore, the trend of scheduling your delivery for when its convenient is becoming more prevalent and leading to more unnecessary c-sections. Dangerous and stupid.

While I recommend a vaginal birth (mine went just fine), I also recommend epidurals. Highly.

Seriously. Have one.

Definitely vaginal. NEVER go caesarian unless necessary. And don't you let the doctor DARE to suggest scheduling you for an induction just because he's going away the next day!
To shorten the labour, it is often possbile for the doctor or midwifery staff to break your waters for you to kick things off (pardon the expression).
And yes. Get the epidural. DEFINITELY get the epidural.
Truth be told, my wife is really the one to talk to about this kind of stuff; she's the expert, and she's done all the research (not to mention the fact that she's already done it twice herself!). Contact me privately and I'll see about the possibility of putting you in touch.

Furthermore, the trend of scheduling your delivery for when its convenient is becoming more prevalent and leading to more unnecessary c-sections. Dangerous and stupid.

What about women who go into labor very quickly? I probably will have my firstborn in less than an hour, if genetic traits were passed to me (and I have no reason to believe they weren't). Isn't it better for me to be in a hospital around my due date and have them induce labor?

I once came across an article that said a woman could have an "orgasmic birth" if she and her husband made out during labor and kept herself relaxed. Some kind of midwife method. I'm not really sure how this works, but it's definitely worth looking in to.

I once came across an article that said a woman could have an "orgasmic birth" if she and her husband made out during labor and kept herself relaxed. Some kind of midwife method. I'm not really sure how this works, but it's definitely worth looking in to.

that seems rather unrealistic to me.

What about women who go into labor very quickly? I probably will have my firstborn in less than an hour, if genetic traits were passed to me (and I have no reason to believe they weren't). Isn't it better for me to be in a hospital around my due date and have them induce labor?

probably not. inducing labor has a higher incidence of c-section. but you probably want to be very close to the place you plan to give birth for the last month of your pregnancy. and no plane trips!

What about women who go into labor very quickly? I probably will have my firstborn in less than an hour, if genetic traits were passed to me (and I have no reason to believe they weren't). Isn't it better for me to be in a hospital around my due date and have them induce labor?
In a case like that it might be better. Talk to your doctor or midwife and get advice for your specific case.
It must be remembered that both inductions and planned caesarian sections do have their place, they just shouldn't be done as a matter of routine.

What about women who go into labor very quickly? I probably will have my firstborn in less than an hour, if genetic traits were passed to me (and I have no reason to believe they weren't). Isn't it better for me to be in a hospital around my due date and have them induce labor?

My mother's doctor broke her water accidentally during an exam with me. When my brother was two weeks late, they broke her water and she went right into labor (without the need for drugs to induce). Both were pretty quick and relatively easy births.

*is hoping I got lots of my mother's genes*

that seems rather unrealistic to me.

One Source (http://www.comadresinstitute.com/articles/tearprevention.html)
Another (http://www.unassistedchildbirth.com/sensual/orgasmic.html)

Honestly, you should simply consult a doctor, and then get a second opinion. For some women, it's healthier to go through with a vaginal birth. Others require a C-section. Personally, I've got an aversion to staples and stitches, and being sliced open unless ABSOLUTELY necessary.

There's another midwives' technique referred to as a water birth -- literally giving birth in water. I've been told it lessens the chances of tears and speeds up healing afterward. Might want to look into that.

ooohhhh 5 months is such a cute age. the perfect little baby age! you must have a pic you could post.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a377/jusenkyoguide/Makoto/P1030832.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a377/jusenkyoguide/Makoto/P1030829.jpg

Here ya go...

I have a penis. I don't think my commentary is needed here.

NEW MANVIR, AWAY!!!

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a377/jusenkyoguide/Makoto/P1030832.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a377/jusenkyoguide/Makoto/P1030829.jpg

Here ya go...

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. :)

Here ya go...

oooooo he is so cute!

oooooo he is so cute!
One of my favorite things about human babies is how they always look like they're thinking, "What the fuck is going on? What the hell is that? Who are these goddam people?!"

He looks so surprised (and cute, of course)!

oooooo he is so cute!
Too cute, this is how he gets away with everything.

Too cute, this is how he gets away with everything.

it only gets worse. they get cute AND charming. pretty soon you will be saying "ohhhhhh how cute! jr just cut the tail off the cat! he is so advanced for his age!"

it only gets worse. they get cute AND charming. pretty soon you will be saying "ohhhhhh how cute! jr just cut the tail off the cat! he is so advanced for his age!"
I'm just praying he grows out of it. If he stays this cute and is half-Japanese, half-American he's gonna end up joining a boy band, I just know it!

I'm just praying he grows out of it. If he stays this cute and is half-Japanese, half-American he's gonna end up joining a boy band, I just know it!

lol

you say that like its a bad thing!

One of my favorite things about human babies is how they always look like they're thinking, "What the fuck is going on? What the hell is that? Who are these goddam people?!"

...which is what they are thinking.

I always find it amusing to watch babies as they're just picked up, plonked here, moved there, shufted to someone else, put to bed, woken up, put on a table, placed in a chair, eat this, wierd noises here and there...

I mean, how they make sense of this seeming randomness...

My nephew is at the stage of mimicking - one thing my brother does, when my nephew seems to be about to do something unwise is to say 'I don't think that's a very good idea'.

Now, when my nephew is asked to do something he doesn't want to do he repeats...

'Come on, it's time to have a bath now'
'No mummy, I don't think that's a very good idea', as though he's really weighed up the pros and cons and come to a considered conclusion.

Hmm... PRETTY sure it was pain my wife was going through. She made sure to share the love though by trying her absolute best to crush my hand. ;)

Pain is so close to pleasure... ;)

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a377/jusenkyoguide/Makoto/P1030832.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a377/jusenkyoguide/Makoto/P1030829.jpg

Here ya go...

That is a very cute boy

...which is what they are thinking.

I always find it amusing to watch babies as they're just picked up, plonked here, moved there, shufted to someone else, put to bed, woken up, put on a table, placed in a chair, eat this, wierd noises here and there...

I mean, how they make sense of this seeming randomness...

My nephew is at the stage of mimicking - one thing my brother does, when my nephew seems to be about to do something unwise is to say 'I don't think that's a very good idea'.

Now, when my nephew is asked to do something he doesn't want to do he repeats...

'Come on, it's time to have a bath now'
'No mummy, I don't think that's a very good idea', as though he's really weighed up the pros and cons and come to a considered conclusion.
My kid brother went through a phase where he narrated everything he was doing. The best part was that he would do this when he KNEW he was being naughty, and he would include that element in his narrative.

For instance, "Boo plays with Mommy's watch. Don't play with Mommy's watch, you'll break it!"

Or, "I take the phone now. Phone isn't for Boo to play with. Don't touch phone."

My favorite was a time that he reached for something that he knew he wasn't supposed to take, while saying, "Don't touch that, that's not for Boo to touch." But he kept trying to grab it.