NationStates Jolt Archive

ok hands up for your religions

I don't have a religion, i have a patchwork of theories about how the universe began and how people live and how they should live and various philosophies added in too. To put it all into one religion could take me some time.
So i choose other for now, i guess i could go under agnostic but i'm not sure.

Can We have a Poll?

Me: Christian (Methodist)

Solipsist. I am the only thing that is real and everything else is just the result of my freakishly overactive imagination. When I wake up you will all vanish.

And please, no blackmail such as this:

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/nightmares.png
(http://xkcd.com/390/)

Solipsist. I am the only thing that is real and everything else is just the result of my freakishly overactive imagination. When I wake up you will all vanish.

And please, no blackmail such as this:

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/nightmares.png
(http://xkcd.com/390/)

how do you know you exist at all?
What if everything else is real and you're the only fake part?
*note to self, must stop derailing threads to philosophical debates*

Practicing Roman Catholic

Sumerophile Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=542706)

oh and i want a definition of what you think religion means.
As i could come under:
being a member of your faith, go to your religious building to pray.
Or actually beliveing in your faith but not preaching about it to others.
Telling everyone you can that your religion is best no matter what.
Or trying to gain media coverage of religious events .e.g seeing Jesus in a piece of toast (this did happen).

So what is this definition of religion?

Karmic Taoist with mild Judeo-Christian undertones.

Balance, Conscience and Ethics.

I call myself an atheist, but I hesitate to say absolutely that there is no god. If there is a god, I don't believe in a "personal" god or a god that cares about/intervenes with human life. I've always thought that outlook was mildly egotistical.

I would like for there to be a god... especially one that will give me a kick-ass place to live after I die. I'd settle for another go-round in this world, for that matter. In spite of all its faults, it is truly an amazing place.

Just as a side note: christians cannot say that they are oppressed if they live in america. When 70% of the population would not vote for a political candidate because they don't believe in god - that is not a society that oppresses the faithful. Please stop whining and realize just how good you have it.

I like how the poll is simple, but I do not consider myself the same as most Christians. I'm Orthodox myself, and I find much more in common with a Catholic than any Protestants. Even still, there's very large differences between me and Catholics. The only protestant sects I really ever liked are the Methodists and Lutherans. The rest have kind of strayed from Martin Luther's teachings (they're usually Calvinistic in nature, or much worse... Pentacostal). I used to protestant, but converted to Orthodoxy after finding they were the closest to my beliefs (it is the original church after all).

But hey, shouldn't all Christians be uniting anyways as much scrutiny as we're receiving from athiests and cults (like Scientology and Mormonism)? We're the ones being oppressed anymore. Plus one united church is better anyways. We REALLY shouldn't be fighting amongst each other.

I like how the poll is simple, but I do not consider myself the same as most Christians. I'm Orthodox myself, and I find much more in common with a Catholic than any Protestants. Even still, there's very large differences between me and Catholics. The only protestant sects I really ever liked are the Methodists and Lutherans. The rest have kind of strayed from Martin Luther's teachings (they're usually Calvinistic in nature, or much worse... Pentacostal). I used to protestant, but converted to Orthodoxy after finding they were the closest to my beliefs (it is the original church after all).

But hey, shouldn't all Christians be uniting anyways as much scrutiny as we're receiving from athiests and cults (like Scientology and Mormonism)? We're the ones being oppressed anymore. Plus one united church is better anyways. We REALLY shouldn't be fighting amongst each other.

I wouldn't exactly say opressed, but I quite agree with your views in the second paragraph.

Raised Catholic here, went through a few different philosophies (including Atheism), before deciding to become a Non-Denominational Christian. But I'm also a bit of a Unitarian and a Deist.

I worship reason. It is my God, my master, my companion, my best friend, and my monogamous lover.

(Everybody else is just jealous.)

Active Christian: Baptist:D

I like how the poll is simple, but I do not consider myself the same as most Christians. I'm Orthodox myself, and I find much more in common with a Catholic than any Protestants. Even still, there's very large differences between me and Catholics. The only protestant sects I really ever liked are the Methodists and Lutherans. The rest have kind of strayed from Martin Luther's teachings (they're usually Calvinistic in nature, or much worse... Pentacostal). I used to protestant, but converted to Orthodoxy after finding they were the closest to my beliefs (it is the original church after all).

But hey, shouldn't all Christians be uniting anyways as much scrutiny as we're receiving from athiests and cults (like Scientology and Mormonism)? We're the ones being oppressed anymore. Plus one united church is better anyways. We REALLY shouldn't be fighting amongst each other.

I am an Atheist, and I would have to agree with the 2nd paragraph. If a belief is divided, it becomes extremely unconvincing that it is the true faith. I would think that God would be a unifying force in the universe, even when he says we are all brothers and sisters, not a dividing force, but it occurred anyways. Though with some of the new age religions, some of them have really good philosophies, but are really weird in the faith department...

But hey, shouldn't all Christians be uniting anyways as much scrutiny as we're receiving from athiests and cults (like Scientology and Mormonism)? We're the ones being oppressed anymore. Plus one united church is better anyways. We REALLY shouldn't be fighting amongst each other.

I don't mean to split hairs, but why is it that Christians call Scientologists and Mormons a cult? Never mind the scientologists - why mormons? They believe in Jesus, I think they believe in the resurrection, they just have an additional holy book. I think they should qualify as christians, just like the coptics, the greek orthodox, eastern orthodox, pentecostal, seventh day adventists, jehovas witnesses...

What I mean to say is, when you believe that a man-god was murdered and came back to life before flying to heaven, and at every mass his followers drink his blood and eat his flesh (the catholic church still teaches transubstantiation - they did when i was confirmed anyway).

im a catholic atheist.

Atheist, but refusing to vote on the poll because Atheism isn't a religion dammit! :p.

im a catholic atheist.

Heathen! I'm a Protestant Atheist!

im a catholic atheist.what's that?

Practising Protestant, more specific Evangelical Lutheran

I glad to see people understand. I really have to say this is a nice forum. Most forums I would have been immediately insulted for what I just said. :)

Yeah, sadly enough I get along with Catholics and non-Christians better than anyone else in real life. I have yet to meet someone else Orthodox (small city, pretty secluded). I tend to get along because of philosophy rather than religion. "I put no stock in relgion." -Kingdom of Heaven, that Knight Hospitaller guy

lol I really angered people when I said pure Christianity is basically pure communism. lol

Atheist of the leave me alone order:)

it doesn't come up at all normally so why is it the Internet happens to be obsessed with such talk :confused:

Born and raised Catholic, I've seen the true light of atheism recently.
My life was made so much richer by it.

Well, the Mormons believe all other churches are an abomination when in fact they are the abomination. Their teachings are twisted from Christian belief, especially beliefs about God, making their teachings blasphemy. That is what makes them a cult. Any Christian probably understands what I mean. I don't know how to put it in athiest terms. I guess this: it's even crazier than Christianity. Is that good?

But if you really need to know how crazy the Mormon religion is, just search mormon in youtube and the first video that pops up should be a cartoon banned by them. Everybody believes that Scientology believes the crazy things they do, why not Mormons?

So... Baptists are a cult, then, too? :confused:

I don't mean to split hairs, but why is it that Christians call Scientologists and Mormons a cult? Never mind the scientologists - why mormons? They believe in Jesus, I think they believe in the resurrection, they just have an additional holy book. I think they should qualify as christians, just like the coptics, the greek orthodox, eastern orthodox, pentecostal, seventh day adventists, jehovas witnesses...

What I mean to say is, when you believe that a man-god was murdered and came back to life before flying to heaven, and at every mass his followers drink his blood and eat his flesh (the catholic church still teaches transubstantiation - they did when i was confirmed anyway).

Well, the Mormons believe all other churches are an abomination when in fact they are the abomination. Their teachings are twisted from Christian belief, especially beliefs about God, making their teachings blasphemy. That is what makes them a cult. Any Christian probably understands what I mean. I don't know how to put it in athiest terms. I guess this: it's even crazier than Christianity. Is that good?

But if you really need to know how crazy the Mormon religion is, just search mormon in youtube and the first video that pops up should be a cartoon banned by them. Everybody believes that Scientology believes the crazy things they do, why not Mormons?

By the way, I don't consider any of those groups Christian save for the Orthodox. Curious why you would group them with those heretical sects. But notice I say heretical. Mormons are the only ones who blaspheme.

And to clear up Orthodoxy, there is Oriental Orthodoxy (practiced mostly in northern Africa) and Eastern Orthodoxy (which includes Greek Orthodoxy, Russian Orthodoxy, etc.). There is basically no difference between the two. They split on a technicality in like the 5th century and are think about reuniting. Also, Orthodoxy is the least changed of the Christian churches. This is all based on solid research. Just look it up yourself.

Discordian.

LMFAO! Depends on your point of view I guess. Roman Catholics sure seem to think so. lol

They do?
Wow, and here's me with 13 years at Catholic convent school behind me never hearing them calling any Christian fraction a sect, including Mormons.

So... Baptists are a cult, then, too? :confused:

LMFAO! Depends on your point of view I guess. Roman Catholics sure seem to think so. lol

I'm an ELCA Lutheran (the "cool Lutherans," we're more laid-back) trying to return to the church after several months away. It's one of the hardest things I've ever done, partly due to the circumstances under which I left.

Well, I'm not saying all do. Gosh! lol

But think of Pope Benedict's decree some years back. He pretty much said that only Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches were the only true churches, and that protestant ones were false (he said Orthodox were flawed, but still true). This was very unpopular worldwide so he had to change his statement and apoligize. I think that's kinda stupid the the FREAKIN' POPE was forced to do that.

Well, I'm not saying all do. Gosh! lol

But think of Pope Benedict's decree some years back. He pretty much said that only Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches were the only true churches, and that protestant ones were false (he said Orthodox were flawed, but still true). This was very unpopular worldwide so he had to change his statement and apoligize. I think that's kinda stupid the the FREAKIN' POPE was forced to do that.


Seconded. I live in a heavily Catholic area, and most Catholics that I know see all Christian religions (though some omit Jehovah's and Mormons) as legitimate. The Church on the other hand, drawing on my years of Catholic education, lightly reminded us that Catholicism is, as the Pope had to say, the only true one.

In my opinion, there's some truth to all real religions(Scientology not included), and Christianity just happens to be the one I chose.

Satanist.

Pastafarian. I'm surprised it's taken so long or anybody to mention the FSM...

Well, it is difficult to categorize myself since I do think that religious discourse can be true, but that it doesn't mean anything to use "scientific" or otherwise standards with which to judge it. Religion seems more like a worldview than anything else to me, and as such it is..unimpeachable? But I am not religious, in the sense that I do not do the same things that religious people do.

Something that has really stuck with me was this quote by Wittgenstein in On Certainty:

"You must bear in mind that the language-game is so to say something unpredictable. I mean: it is not based on grounds. It is not reasonable (or unreasonable). It is there--like our life."

The kind of things that religious people say are one type of language game, and the kind of things I say are another... but neither can be said to be true or false, because that presupposes grounds that do not exist for that judgment. So, I am not atheist-- I do not have an opinion on god outside of the context that word is used (in some situations it is entirely correct to say that god exists); I am not agnostic, because I am not unsure of what I believe, and I am not religious because I do not say the same things that religious people do.

what's that?

raised catholic. love the church. dont believe a word of it.

raised catholic. love the church. dont believe a word of it.aren't the last two sentences contradictory?

Ignostic-Strong Atheist.

I was surprised that the author of the tread and poll failed to include Buddhism of which me and 300-500 million people are adherents of.

I understand one could not include all religions but how did Buddhism get left out?

Any way, I am a Pure Land Buddhist.

http://amitabha.online.googlepages.com/amitabha.html

http://amtb.co.uk/pure-land-buddhism

http://www.sinc.sunysb.edu/Clubs/buddhism/pureland/

The Wikipedia number for Buddhism is 376,000,000.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion#Modern_period (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion#Modern_period)

From Wiki:

Buddhism today
Buddhism had become virtually extinct in India, and although it continued to exist in surrounding countries, its influence was no longer expanding. It is now again gaining strength. While estimates of the number of Buddhist followers range from 230 to 500 million worldwide, most estimates are between 310 million,[19] and 350 million.[20] In addition, most scholars classify similar numbers of people under a category they call variously Chinese (folk/traditional) religion, which is an amalgam of various traditions, including Buddhism. Furthermore, estimates are uncertain:

because of difficulties in defining who counts as a Buddhist;
because of uncertainties in the situation for several countries; most notably China, Vietnam and North Korea.
According to one analysis,[21] Buddhism is the fourth-largest religion in the world behind Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism. The monks' order (Sangha), which began during the lifetime of the Buddha in India, is among the oldest organizations on earth.

Theravāda Buddhism, using Pāli as its scriptural language, is the dominant form of Buddhism in Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, Sri Lanka, and Burma. Also the Dalit Buddhist movement in India (inspired by B. R. Ambedkar) practices Theravada.
East Asian forms of Mahayana Buddhism that use scriptures in Chinese are dominant in most of China, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Singapore and Vietnam as well as within Chinese and Japanese communities within Indochina, Southeast Asia and the West.
Tibetan Buddhism, using the Tibetan language, is found in Tibet, and the surrounding areas in India, Bhutan, Mongolia, Nepal, and the Russian Federation
Most Buddhist groups in the West are at least nominally affiliated to some eastern tradition listed above. An exception is the Friends of the Western Buddhist Order, though they can be considered Mahayanist in a broad sense.
According to a website specializing in religious statistics,[22] the numbers of adherents of the three main traditions listed above are about 124, 185 and 20 million, respectively.

At the present time, the teachings of all three branches of Buddhism have spread throughout the world, and Buddhist texts are increasingly translated into local languages. While, in the West, Buddhism is often seen as exotic and progressive, in the East, Buddhism is regarded as familiar and part of the establishment. Buddhists in Asia are frequently well organized and well funded. In a number of countries, it is recognized as an official religion and receives state support. In the West, Buddhism is recognized as one of the growing spiritual influences.


^ Jones, Judy; William Wilson (2006). "Religion", An Incomplete Education, 3rd edition, Ballantine Books, 473. ISBN 978-0-7394-7582-9.
^ Adherants.com. Major Religions Ranked By Size. Retrieved on 2007-07-31.
^ Garfinkel, Perry (December 2005). "Buddha Rising". National Geographic: 88-109. 
^ [2], retrieved on 2008-01-15
^ World Christian Encyclopedia, 2nd edn, Oxford University Press, 2001, volume 2, page 10
^ World Religions Religion Statistics Geography Church Statistics

I'm a practicing Roman Catholic

aren't the last two sentences contradictory?

No, I understand him. He loves the community, but just doesn't believe the teachings. A lot of people, in truth, are like that. Most won't admit it. Kudos to him for doing so.

How can you be sure that you are the only thing that is real? Does that also include the material you? Or only your mind? And how can you know your mind is real and not only the thought you are having at a certain time?
Does it make any practical difference ;) ?

Besides, does time exist?

No. That is why I post before you.

I was raised and baptized Lutheran (ELCA now) but I'm now Asatruar. Or Norse heathenism, for those that haven't heard of Asatru.

I'm an atheist.

Solipsist. I am the only thing that is real and everything else is just the result of my freakishly overactive imagination. When I wake up you will all vanish.

How can you be sure that you are the only thing that is real? Does that also include the material you? Or only your mind? And how can you know your mind is real and not only the thought you are having at a certain time? Besides, does time exist?

raised catholic. love the church. dont believe a word of it.

What exactly do you love about it?

aren't the last two sentences contradictory?It's really not that hard to see that they aren't.

I wonder Atheists would you consider Atheism to be a religion?

Well, of course it does. If you make an 'extreme' statement like that you better have some good arguments etc.

Arguing with myself ? How droll ;)
Tell me - can you prove me wrong ?

Also does it matter if I kick you? I'm only a figment of your imagination.

Of course it does. Self mutilation is generally considered to be a bad sign.

Aside - Solipsism is not my real belief. But it is as good as any other. :p

:p
See ? I did it again. Impressing myself is easy.

Does it make any practical difference ;) ?

Well, of course it does. If you make an 'extreme' statement like that you better have some good arguments etc.
Also does it matter if I kick you? I'm only a figment of your imagination.

No. That is why I post before you.

:p

Agnostic atheist, "There might be a god and I don't think we'll ever know for sure, but I don't think so".

how do you know you exist at all?
What if everything else is real and you're the only fake part?

If he's not real how is he thinking about it?

I wonder Atheists would you consider Atheism to be a religion?

Belief system maybe, religion might be pushing it a bit too far.

I wonder Atheists would you consider Atheism to be a religion?

No.

Agnostic atheist, "There might be a god and I don't think we'll ever know for sure, but I don't think so".

If he's not real how is he thinking about it?

Belief system maybe, religion might be pushing it a bit too far.

Well he might be a zombie trained to put out certain information to wording on a screen, but not really 'exist'.

So what's the difference between a belief system and a religion? are the two not the same thing?

No, but I think the onus is on you (this isn't a weird thing to say isn't it? Because it does sound weird to me)

Why ? Whenever I ask representatives of other religions to prove theirs, they also refuse.
So just like them I have faith. And I will refuse any evidence you show if it conflicts with my faith.
I after all have been a good example to myself.

By who? If you're the only thing that exists then why would it matter what others consider bad and good? And if only your mind exist then how can you get hurt or even die by external causes? If an external (imagined) cause can have an effect on you wouldn't that mean that YOU are also imagined?

Being the sole real thing in existence here does not make me sane. On the contrary.
At least that is what the voices say.

Meh, I somewhat agree there.
Saddening, is it not ?

I wonder Atheists would you consider Atheism to be a religion?

No, but it's an appropriate answer to his question.

can you prove me wrong ?

No, but I think the onus is on you (this isn't a weird thing to say isn't it? Because it does sound weird to me)

Of course it does. Self mutilation is generally considered to be a bad sign.

By who? If you're the only thing that exists then why would it matter what others consider bad and good? And if only your mind exist then how can you get hurt or even die by external causes? If an external (imagined) cause can have an effect on you wouldn't that mean that YOU are also imagined?

Aside - Solipsism is not my real belief. But it is as good as any other. :p

Meh, I somewhat agree there.

Agnostic atheist, "There might be a god and I don't think we'll ever know for sure, but I don't think so".

Don't most atheist think that way? If there was any good evidence for a god then being an atheist would be irrational.
I have often asked myself that if god can't be tested this must be because it doesn't have an effect on nature (it's supernatural) which in turn means that it's 'irrelevant' to us (unless you assume a supernatural 'me'). Is there anything wrong with this?

Well he might be a zombie trained to put out certain information to wording on a screen, but not really 'exist'.

I was assuming that it was being discussed from his point-of-view, because that's the only one where you can really get anything done. Discussing it from anyone else's just ends up as a bunch of people sitting around doubting each other's existences :p

So what's the difference between a belief system and a religion? are the two not the same thing?

Religion tends to involve the supernatural in some way, and is usually defined as such, a belief system doesn't have those restrictions.

I have often asked myself that if god can't be tested this must be because it doesn't have an effect on nature (it's supernatural) which in turn means that it's 'irrelevant' to us (unless you assume a supernatural 'me'). Is there anything wrong with this?

A small error - God cannot be tested because his interactions with the natural world would not be reproducible or predictable. Not because there aren't any interactions.

Saddening, is it not ?

A little bit :(

Don't most atheist think that way? If there was any good evidence for a god then being an atheist would be irrational.
I have often asked myself that if god can't be tested this must be because it doesn't have an effect on nature (it's supernatural) which in turn means that it's 'irrelevant' to us (unless you assume a supernatural 'me'). Is there anything wrong with this?

Partly, yes. But mostly, no. Simply because something is supernatural does not mean that it can't have effects on nature. But you are correct in saying that something that doesn't affect existance is irrelevant to those that are natural.

Partly, yes. But mostly, no. Simply because something is supernatural does not mean that it can't have effects on nature. But you are correct in saying that something that doesn't affect existance is irrelevant.

But if it has an effect on nature wouldn't that make it testable in some way?

A small error - God cannot be tested because his interactions with the natural world would not be reproducible or predictable. Not because there aren't any interactions.

I see. But wouldn't that cause certain 'irregularities' because every time god interacts something unpredictable happens.

I was assuming that it was being discussed from his point-of-view, because that's the only one where you can really get anything done. Discussing it from anyone else's just ends up as a bunch of people sitting around doubting each other's existences :p



Religion tends to involve the supernatural in some way, and is usually defined as such, a belief system doesn't have those restrictions.

But the two would still need a belief system to work on.
E.g. Bible is a standard for many christians on how to live and follow God's rules. Buddhism has the teachings of the Buddha. Islam has the Koran.
All of which include some sort of belief system.
So would a belief system be a religion in training idea?

I see. But wouldn't that cause certain 'irregularities' because every time god interacts something unpredictable happens.

Of course. But unless one wants a "God of the gaps" irregularities are not useable in testing for God.

Don't most atheist think that way? If there was any good evidence for a god then being an atheist would be irrational.
I have often asked myself that if god can't be tested this must be because it doesn't have an effect on nature (it's supernatural) which in turn means that it's 'irrelevant' to us (unless you assume a supernatural 'me'). Is there anything wrong with this?

Yes, but I like making that distinction, I've seen too many people be too sure of their position for me to not.

The way I see it any model of the universe you can make you can fit a god around, but if all your doing is fitting gods that could exist around the universe, they're pretty irrelevant and it's probably best to just act like they aren't there.

But the two would still need a belief system to work on.
E.g. Bible is a standard for many christians on how to live and follow God's rules. Buddhism has the teachings of the Buddha. Islam has the Koran.
All of which include some sort of belief system.
So would a belief system be a religion in training idea?

I'm pretty sure that religions are a subset of belief systems, so for atheism to be a religion it has to meet slightly more criteria.

The right one.

Of course. But unless one wants a "God of the gaps" irregularities are not useable in testing for God.

Well I wasn't really looking for a test but only trying to think how a God that can't be tested might be relevant to us (or more precise the people who believe in a god)

Well I wasn't really looking for a test but only trying to think how a God that can't be tested might be relevant to us (or more precise the people who believe in a god)I suppose you'd just end up with fideism, then.

aren't the last two sentences contradictory?

Nah... it basically defines Catholicism.

Yes, but I like making that distinction, I've seen too many people be too sure of their position for me to not.

The way I see it any model of the universe you can make you can fit a god around, but if all your doing is fitting gods that could exist around the universe, they're pretty irrelevant and it's probably best to just act like they aren't there.


I pretty much agree. But what's so bad about being sure about your position? Most people are pretty sure 99% of all the other religions are false, why not take one step further? And why can't I be sure that God doesn't exist while people would laugh at me when I say I'm a unicorn-agnostic.

I'm pretty sure that religions are a subset of belief systems, so for atheism to be a religion it has to meet slightly more criteria.

So if that's the case then why is the Atheism option included on census forms? If it's not a religion shouldn't it come under /no religious preference/.

So if that's the case then why is the Atheism option included on census forms? If it's not a religion shouldn't it come under /no religious preference/.

/no religious preference/ would imply that you just not prefer one religion above any other. Atheism/agnosticism implies that you prefer no religion. So /I'm not religious/ might have been better but that's pretty much the same as Atheism/agnosticism.

But if it has an effect on nature wouldn't that make it testable in some way?

True. But the effect might arise through supernatural or imperceptible means.

I suppose you'd just end up with fideism, then.

Well I argued that in order to have an effect on us god should be testable, but apparently that was wrong. So he still could have an effect on us but not be testable. (although I still don't really see as how something supernatural can escape the laws of nature but still interfere with nature, unless of course you believe that god is natural)

Your senses can be fooled, you could be being boiled alive by a savage hoard of pink elephants right now and not know about it. It's not likely but there's always a chance :p

True, but it still wouldn't be foolish, irrational or unreasonable that I'm not being boiled by a savage horde of pink elephants. If you doubt that you should become a solipsist *shudders* ;).

Atheism is like a religion though, you can't prove that God does or doesn't exist. So saying there is no way there is a god is going to require a kind of faith.

I've never heard it explained like that before. **wanders around town contemplating**

So if that's the case then why is the Atheism option included on census forms?

Because bureaucrats don't debate about where to pigeon-hole groups and just do it?

I pretty much agree. But what's so bad about being sure about your position?

Your senses can be fooled, you could be being boiled alive by a savage hoard of pink elephants right now and not know about it. It's not likely but there's always a chance :p

No.

Atheism is like a religion though, you can't prove that God does or doesn't exist. So saying there is no way there is a god is going to require a kind of faith.

I'm a solipsist sometimes when I'm thinking about it, but it's just not practical.

That's probably a very reasonable position to take.

Atheism is like a religion though, you can't prove that God does or doesn't exist. So saying there is no way there is a god is going to require a kind of faith.

Believing in something doesn't make it a religion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion) though. Atheism isn't centered around a belief in the supernatural and doesn't give moral guidelines.
It's not like we don't believe many things without that believe being a religion. I also believe for instance that my mother loves me but that doesn't make me a motherist and even if it did it wouldn't make motherism a religion. (I confess that last bit was just because I wanted to use the word motherism)

True, but it still wouldn't be foolish, irrational or unreasonable that I'm not being boiled by a savage horde of pink elephants. If you doubt that you should become a solipsist *shudders* ;).

I'm a solipsist sometimes when I'm thinking about it, but it's just not practical.

What exactly do you love about it?

tradition.

I wonder Atheists would you consider Atheism to be a religion?

no

tradition.

Fair enough.

Well I argued that in order to have an effect on us god should be testable, but apparently that was wrong. So he still could have an effect on us but not be testable. (although I still don't really see as how something supernatural can escape the laws of nature but still interfere with nature, unless of course you believe that god is natural)Right. The effect that god has, given that it isn't dependable, is indeterminate. We wouldn't know whether god did something or if it's just something that happens rarely and we've never experienced before.

As for god escaping the laws of nature... well, he is god. Somewhere in there, he's got the teleportation device, and the water-changing device, etc ad infinitum. :p I believe that's the reason that we don't know the whether it's god or not in the first question-- because he can be the answer for everything or nothing.

Atheism is like a religion though, you can't prove that God does or doesn't exist. So saying there is no way there is a god is going to require a kind of faith.

Nah, it's just saying "I don't believe in anything until it's proven to me"
Claiming that it takes faith to say that there probably is no god, is like claiming that you need faith for not believing in the FSM or Russell's teapot or the Invisible Pink Unicorn.

I believe that's the reason that we don't know the whether it's god or not in the first question-- because he can be the answer for everything or nothing.

That would make god ultimately useless, wouldn't it?

That would make god ultimately useless, wouldn't it?Useless for what? I suppose that would depend on what you wanted to use him for.

I'm a practicing Roman Catholic

Practicing? With or without pads?

As a Buddhist, I would feel offended by your omission of us, except that feeling that would be against my religion.

As a Buddhist, I would feel offended by your omission of us, except that feeling that would be against my religion.

I hope that was a joke, because it's real funny.

Strong atheist / existentialist / nihilist / pastafarian

And yes, strong atheism is a religion to the extent that proving a negative is always impossible, the exact same way nobody can say gravity won't fail tomorrow - you can only say gravity didn't fail yesterday, and you can only say god doesn't exist after looking at the entire universe (and by some religions, beyond).

The statement "god has minimal, possibly no effect on this world" is supported by having the laws of physics in its purported place. Saying "god doesn't exist at all" requires that (unevidenced) tiny leap forward, but to the theists it seems to be a big issue. Probably not is different from just not.

RAmen.

Do I need to even say? :p

Christian.

I waver between atheist and antitheist, depending on how many religious atrocities are in the news on a given day.

I waver between atheist and antitheist, depending on how many religious atrocities are in the news on a given day.

That's not a very stable state of mind lol.

Eclectic Neopagan for lack of a better classification.

I know most traditional survey's of religion tend to put the big six on there (in order of adherants): Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddism, Sikhism, Judaism, may have been worth putting all those on there along with Atheism/agnositic and other.

Practicing Roman Catholic

Don't worry, some day you'll get it right...
;)

Is my belief in there being an infinite number of prime numbers faith-based? How about my firm belief that there is no rational number which is the squareroot of two? Saying "There definitely isn't a God" doesn't require faith if the concept of God is logically contradictory.

Besides, most Atheists (including myself) don't completely exclude the possibility of divinity, we just find the idea unlikely in the extreme and want some decent evidence before we give it credence. In short, calling Atheism a religion is like calling 'not collecting stamps' a hobby, or 'bald' a hair colour: Atheism is lack of religion.

What if the concept of God is not logically contradictory?

Edit: Stupid time warp...

Sigh, yet another shitty religion poll. At least you remembered Hinduism, it's bizarre how many previous ones forgot the third largest religion on Earth. I'm a Neopagan btw. And for what it's worth, IMO the ideal NSG religion poll should have the following options:


Christianity
Islam
Judaism
Hinduism
Buddhism
Sikhism
Neopaganism
Atheism
Agnosticism
Other

I like how the poll is simple, but I do not consider myself the same as most Christians. I'm Orthodox myself, and I find much more in common with a Catholic than any Protestants. Even still, there's very large differences between me and Catholics. The only protestant sects I really ever liked are the Methodists and Lutherans. The rest have kind of strayed from Martin Luther's teachings (they're usually Calvinistic in nature, or much worse... Pentacostal). I used to protestant, but converted to Orthodoxy after finding they were the closest to my beliefs (it is the original church after all).

But hey, shouldn't all Christians be uniting anyways as much scrutiny as we're receiving from athiests and cults (like Scientology and Mormonism)? We're the ones being oppressed anymore. Plus one united church is better anyways. We REALLY shouldn't be fighting amongst each other.

:mad::mad::mad::mad:
Argh, how dare you...

j/k
welcome to NSG

No, I understand him. He loves the community, but just doesn't believe the teachings. A lot of people, in truth, are like that. Most won't admit it. Kudos to him for doing so.

Someone's probably already said this by now but Ashmoria's a she.

Atheism is like a religion though, you can't prove that God does or doesn't exist. So saying there is no way there is a god is going to require a kind of faith.

Is my belief in there being an infinite number of prime numbers faith-based? How about my firm belief that there is no rational number which is the squareroot of two? Saying "There definitely isn't a God" doesn't require faith if the concept of God is logically contradictory.

Besides, most Atheists (including myself) don't completely exclude the possibility of divinity, we just find the idea unlikely in the extreme and want some decent evidence before we give it credence. In short, calling Atheism a religion is like calling 'not collecting stamps' a hobby, or 'bald' a hair colour: Atheism is lack of religion.

I wonder Atheists would you consider Atheism to be a religion?

No...
A religion is a set of beliefs and practices often organized around supernatural and moral claims, and often codified as prayer, ritual, and religious law.
Does atheism in any way fit that?






Also I'm an agnostic atheist.

So what if it isn't? I'm just attacking the assumption that it necessarily requires faith to reject even the possibility of a thing's existence.

I was just curious, because you said "if it is". That must've meant it may or may not be logically contradictory. I was curious in how you found that it was contradictory.

What if the concept of God is not logically contradictory?

Edit: Stupid time warp...

So what if it isn't? I'm just attacking the assumption that it necessarily requires faith to reject even the possibility of a thing's existence.

That's not a very stable state of mind lol.

It's not unstable--Some days I'm content to completely ignore religion, some days I rail against those who don't ignore religion.

The Rogue State of Ratmens is officially Satanic.

Sigh, yet another shitty religion poll. At least you remembered Hinduism, it's bizarre how many previous ones forgot the third largest religion on Earth. I'm a Neopagan btw. And for what it's worth, IMO the ideal NSG religion poll should have the following options:


Christianity
Islam
Judaism
Hinduism
Buddhism
Sikhism
Neopaganism
Atheism
Agnosticism
Other

One cannot be simply an agnostic. One must be either an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist.

I´m an agnostic theist. Although the concept of a God isn´t of my liking, I do recognize that there must be a great, creative force behind what we all see around us.

even tacos?
Or doughnuts? Why does God allow doughnuts to be made? So many questions not enough time.

Sigh, yet another shitty religion poll. At least you remembered Hinduism, it's bizarre how many previous ones forgot the third largest religion on Earth. I'm a Neopagan btw. And for what it's worth, IMO the ideal NSG religion poll should have the following options:


Christianity
Islam
Judaism
Hinduism
Buddhism
Sikhism
Neopaganism
Atheism
Agnosticism
Other

Arguably I'd put Atheism/Agnosticism in the same category, yes they're not the same, but then again neither are all the Christian denominations either. But otherwise I agree

One cannot be simply an agnostic. One must be either an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist.

I´m an agnostic theist. Although the concept of a God isn´t of my liking, I do recognize that there must be a great, creative force behind what we all see around us.

One cannot be simply an agnostic. One must be either an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist.

agnostics need to stop being pussies and pick a side. If you wish to be honest with yourself about the nature of belief, you must acknowledge that probability factors outweigh the truth of 'i don't know'.

even tacos?
Or doughnuts? Why does God allow doughnuts to be made? So many questions not enough time.

Yes Mad Hatters, even tacos and doughnuts. Those are two of the most intriguing aspects of creation, the confection of tacos and doughnuts.:D

I voted agnostic, because i'm not sure the existance of the Great Dragon (who caused Life, the Universe & pretty much Everything to exist) is ultimately provable.

Non-practicing non-denominational Christian, but will convert to Catholicism if I marry my g.f.

ok hands up for your religions
Yay, statistics!
Can i say, "Patterns of Force"?
Whoop ... just did. Aoum.

Depending on definition of "God" (that silly old ambiguous overused word), atheist and/or pantheist. I also fit the definition of "agnostic". But I also have some gnostic ideas. Hmm...

Oh well, "deity" equals error, and I am quite secular. Life, the universe and just about almost everything is silly. Especially the concepts of "life", "the universe", "everything" and any and all other concepts.

I voted Atheist,but I've incorporated ideas from my former religion,Christianity,as well as Islam,Buddism, and Hindu. The whole "God" thing is a total turnoff for me.I wouldn't convert to a religion even if a girlfriend I loved asked me to,I'd kill myself before that!

Not religious, I see religion as just another form of abstract ideology bereft of reality. In that vein I would call myself a Marxist atheist, as opposed to the liberal variety of atheism/agnosticism that is most prevalent. I try to be objective in life and in my judgment, I look to the environmental conditions for answers and not to preset abstractions in my head. To be a Marxist one must engage in self-criticism and realism.

I voted other, just to scew the poll of fail. Atheism isn't a religion, nor is agnosticism.

That is true, but it's a view on the subject.

Then perhaps this should be a 'Hands up for your view on the subject' thread.

I voted other, just to scew the poll of fail. Atheism isn't a religion, nor is agnosticism.

That is true, but it's a view on the subject.

I am agnostic, but I'm anoyed that you lumped that in with athiest, as they're two very different things. Also, why include Judaism, but lump the far more numerous Budhism in under "other?"

If you're just agnostic then I suspect that you do not know what the word actually means.

I am agnostic, but I'm anoyed that you lumped that in with athiest, as they're two very different things. Also, why include Judaism, but lump the far more numerous Budhism in under "other?"

If you're just agnostic then I suspect that you do not know what the word actually means.

n.
One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.


My agnosticism is sorta the third kind: Existence of god is irrelevant to percieved reality - She/it/he/they might or might not exist and I don't give a rats ass aboot it: It's relatively futile to speculate about the un(dis)provable.

That doesn't mean I can't bash other religions though as they tend to assert something about the nature of deity/supernatural.

Traditional Satanist.

I voted other, just to scew the poll of fail. Atheism isn't a religion, nor is agnosticism.

You are more dogmatic than the pope :rolleyes::p

I selected 'Christian' but specifically, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormon)

These threads need to die. Seriously. Lets go one week without a religion thread.


I have one I want to make (because its different than the other threads we've had), but Ill be damned if Im going to add to the thread count of :

Athiest:"You r teh stupid and mite as wel belive in teh Santa Claus!!!11!!!11!"
Theist:"Nu-uh! Gawd is luv u r teh stoopid an d r going to burn in teh hell!!!111!!!11!"



(Its amussing how pretending to type like a dumbass actually takes more time than typing properly....)

I was just curious, because you said "if it is". That must've meant it may or may not be logically contradictory. I was curious in how you found that it was contradictory.

Well, the classic Problem of Evil as stated by Epicurus is one example:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

I should probably point out that this isn't an entirely a priori argument, as it relies on the empirical statement 'evil exists in the world'.

The free will/omniscience paradox would be another example. A lot more problems arise when we move from the vague, deist conception of deity to any of the Abrahamic religions.

These threads need to die. Seriously. Lets go one week without a religion thread.


I have one I want to make (because its different than the other threads we've had), but Ill be damned if Im going to add to the thread count of :

Athiest:"You r teh stupid and mite as wel belive in teh Santa Claus!!!11!!!11!"
Theist:"Nu-uh! Gawd is luv u r teh stoopid an d r going to burn in teh hell!!!111!!!11!"



(Its amussing how pretending to type like a dumbass actually takes more time than typing properly....)

Did you know that if you don't click on the thread title you don't have to read it? It's quite an innovation.

These threads need to die. Seriously. Lets go one week without a religion thread.


I have one I want to make (because its different than the other threads we've had), but Ill be damned if Im going to add to the thread count of :

Athiest:"You r teh stupid and mite as wel belive in teh Santa Claus!!!11!!!11!"
Theist:"Nu-uh! Gawd is luv u r teh stoopid an d r going to burn in teh hell!!!111!!!11!"



(Its amussing how pretending to type like a dumbass actually takes more time than typing properly....)

Well, you know the thread will devolve into the parody you wrote there but I, for one, am interested in the question you have in mind.

I voted other, just to scew the poll of fail. Atheism isn't a religion, nor is agnosticism.

Pedantic much?

I am agnostic, but I'm anoyed that you lumped that in with athiest, as they're two very different things. Also, why include Judaism, but lump the far more numerous Budhism in under "other?"Jews always get special treatment, don't you know that?

Athiest:"You r teh stupid and mite as wel belive in teh Santa Claus!!!11!!!11!"
Theist:"Nu-uh! Gawd is luv u r teh stoopid an d r going to burn in teh hell!!!111!!!11!"

I am so sigging that. :D

Jews always get special treatment, don't you know that?

Like in World War II, when they were always the first people to get showers.

I am so sigging that. :D

Fuck. Yes. My goal on this board is now complete.

Well, you know the thread will devolve into the parody you wrote there but I, for one, am interested in the question you have in mind.


Ill get around to posting it eventually;)

Like in World War II, when they were always the first people to get showers.

Wow. That would almost be funny if it wasnt so tasteless.

Like in World War II, when they were always the first people to get showers.

Noone ever said special was nice.

Christian

Baptist to be exact.

Born and reared a Catholic

Questioned my faith, and Christianity

looked around



found Bahá'i Faith, now plan on converting :D

see it for yourself if you don't know it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahaism

MAJOR WORLD RELIGIONS SUMMARIZED:

Taoism: Shit happens

Hinduism: Shit happens over and over again

Buddhism: Shit happens, and does not happen

Catholicism: Shit happens, and it's all your fault

Protestantism: Shit happens, and you better clean it up right now

Islam: If shit happens to me, shit is going to happen to you

Judaism: Why does shit always happen to us?

MAJOR WORLD RELIGIONS SUMMARIZED:

Taoism: Shit happens

Hinduism: Shit happens over and over again

Buddhism: Shit happens, and does not happen

Catholicism: Shit happens, and it's all your fault

Protestantism: Shit happens, and you better clean it up right now

Islam: If shit happens to me, shit is going to happen to you

Judaism: Why does shit always happen to us?



That was fantastic.

Traditional Satanist.

Where the heaven have you been? Haven't seen you in an epoch or so.

Like in World War II, when they were always the first people to get showers.

Is it horrible that I actually laughed at the above?

I've got theories about cosmic conciousness and such. I do a little Transcendental meditation from time to time. Not the Maharishi's kind, though.

MAJOR WORLD RELIGIONS SUMMARIZED:

Taoism: Shit happens

Hinduism: Shit happens over and over again

Buddhism: Shit happens, and does not happen

Catholicism: Shit happens, and it's all your fault

Protestantism: Shit happens, and you better clean it up right now

Islam: If shit happens to me, shit is going to happen to you

Judaism: Why does shit always happen to us?

Satanism: I AM the shit.:D

where's sikh, jain, buddhist, shinto, taoism, keeping of indiginous traditions, and baha'i?

and for that mater, why not multiple choice instead of radio buttons?

virtually all organized beliefs with major fallowings overlap more then differ.
(and as baha'is and some others believe, all come from the same ultimate source)

and they could all be right or all be wrong, just as easily as any one of them could be either.

personally i believe there are things we don't have to pretend to know at all in order to feel and experience. some of these may be sentient. and of these, whatever happens to be 'biggest', is defacto; "god". or at least close enough for government work.

=^^=
.../\...

Practicing Roman Catholic

How long before you're perfect?

ok hands up for your religions

Church of Her Sublime Pinkness, She Who Raptures Socks, The Invisible Pink Unicorn, BBHUH
http://www.geocities.com/ipu_temple/

n.
One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.
Pretty much.


My agnosticism is sorta the third kind: Existence of god is irrelevant to percieved reality - She/it/he/they might or might not exist and I don't give a rats ass aboot it: It's relatively futile to speculate about the un(dis)provable.

That doesn't mean I can't bash other religions though as they tend to assert something about the nature of deity/supernatural.
Yet your agnosticism isn't a belief about the existence of god, it's a belief about whether one can know if a god exists. Which is why it's not some kind of middle ground between theism and atheism, as so many people seem to think it is.
You are more dogmatic than the pope :rolleyes::p
I'd out-dogma Benedict any day ;)
Pedantic much?
Yes.

Sunni Muslims Mazhab Syafi'i

And I lol'ed at this very much...

MAJOR WORLD RELIGIONS SUMMARIZED:

Taoism: Shit happens(Lol)

Hinduism: Shit happens over and over again(Lol2)

Buddhism: Shit happens, and does not happen(Not lolling)

Catholicism: Shit happens, and it's all your fault (Minor Lol)

Protestantism: Shit happens, and you better clean it up right now (Minor Lol *

Islam: If shit happens to me, shit is going to happen to you (LOL!!)

Judaism: Why does shit always happen to us? (LOL 2!!

_______________________________

Satanism: I AM the shit. (MAJOR ROFL!!)

And I lol'ed at this very much...
Buddhism: Shit happens, and does not happen(Not lolling)...
I lol'd, and did not lol