NationStates Jolt Archive

-edit-
No

I'd be pissed, but then again my parents are letting me live with them unemployed and hand me money whenever I want. I have it too good, I can admit, so I don't know if your situation is "bad" or "normal"

Sounds like your parents caught the Costanza disease...

no you shouldnt be pissed that your parents arent putting their lives on hold just in case it should turn out that you need a bit of cash.

You're an adult. Your money problems are your own. While it might be nice if your parents helped you, they have every right to spend their own money on things they want.

If his parents don't support him, Billary will just put him on welfare and take it outta my paycheck.

Yes. Not because you're entitled to money, but because they aren't being honest.

I'm currently unemployed. The last one was a sarcastic joke.

You're an adult. Your money problems are your own. While it might be nice if your parents helped you, they have every right to spend their own money on things they want.

Yes, but they're also lying to him, and aren't at least doing the courtesy of saying "I don't really feel like giving any to you now." Also, they are spending things on luxuries while apparently Zilam, their own son, is in rather desperate need of money. It isn't wrong to expect a little charity from someone who is apparently much better off than you are and when asked can't be bothered to give a helping hand.

You're an adult. Your money problems are your own. While it might be nice if your parents helped you, they have every right to spend their own money on things they want.

This is America and that is how it goes at times. Zilam how old are you?

Do you think I have the right to be pissed at my parents? Or not? Have your parents ever done anything similar?

I think since they pretty much put life on hold when they were raising you, and you're out of the house now, they are expecting you to be able support yourself and they are spending their money on themselves.

That's not unreasonable.

I think since they pretty much put life on hold when they were raising you, and you're out of the house now, they are expecting you to be able support yourself and they are spending their money on themselves.

That's not unreasonable.

This is true, but don't you think that it'd be far more reasonable for them to be, you know, honest about it?

This is true, but don't you think that it'd be far more reasonable for them to be, you know, honest about it?

Yes, but they're also lying to him, and aren't at least doing the courtesy of saying "I don't really feel like giving any to you now." Also, they are spending things on luxuries while apparently Zilam, their own son, is in rather desperate need of money. It isn't wrong to expect a little charity from someone who is apparently much better off than you are and when asked can't be bothered to give a helping hand.

In what way are they lying to him? They told him they don't have the money -- just because you don't approve of how they are spending it does not make it lying.

You have an odd sense of entitlement; are parents supposed to support you until the day they die?

Yes, but they're also lying to him

No they're not. By his own words they say "we don't have it right now". They have no money to give them, because they have other things to spend it on.

The fact that the other things they choose to spend it on are luxuries in no way changes that. They have no spare money to give him because they choose to spend it on other things.

No they're not. By his own words they say "we don't have it right now". They have no money to give them, because they have other things to spend it on.

The fact that the other things they choose to spend it on are luxuries in no way changes that. They have no spare money to give him because they choose to spend it on other things.

Telling half the truth isn't lying, nor is it being honest. There's another term for it, but I'll be modest and not go there.

If his parents don't support him, Billary will just put him on welfare and take it outta my paycheck.

I'd be pissed, but then again my parents are letting me live with them unemployed

What paycheck?

Telling half the truth isn't lying, nor is it being honest. There's another term for it, but I'll be modest and not go there.

That's not in the slightest bit "lying". Saying "I have no free money to give you" isn't a lie, if I have no extra money to give you.

Declining to tell you what I bought with my money so that I have no more spare cash is not a lie, nor are you entitled to know. They have no money to give him because they spent it on trips, snowmobiles, and concert tickets. That's entirely their right.

In what way are they lying to him? They told him they don't have the money -- just because you don't approve of how they are spending it does not make it lying.

You have an odd sense of entitlement; are parents supposed to support you until the day they die?

Like I said, they're telling half the truth, and that's neither lying or being honest. And my being peeved at this has absolutely nothing to do with the money. It's the simple fact that I dislike it when people are dodgy, whether it be in this way or another. I've had quite enough experience with it, myself.

Do you lack reading comprehension? I never said it was lying.

And I'm very much aware that nobody is entitled to know. I never said that anybody was... However, it would be a bit more respectful to come right out and say that they really have no obligation to support him, and thus are spending their money on themselves as they so please.

Like I said, they're telling half the truth, and that's neither lying or being honest.

So which is it, "not honest" or "not respectful"? I think I'm not the one lacking reading comprehension, especially as I can remember what I said five minutes ago

Telling half the truth isn't lying, nor is it being honest. There's another term for it, but I'll be modest and not go there.

What about it is telling half the truth?
"We don't have the money" and he knows what they spent it on.

What gives here? We are not entitled to being supported our whole lives. Once one is working, one should have the responsibility of living within one's means and not expecting others to bail one out.

Do you lack reading comprehension? I never said it was lying.

And I'm very much aware that nobody is entitled to know. I never said that anybody was... However, it would be a bit more respectful to come right out and say that they really have no obligation to support him, and thus are spending their money on themselves as they so please. To me, that's a hell of a lot better than "Sorry, we don't have any money.", and as it stands, that's exactly what I'd do in such a situation.

Then again, I don't like to be a dick, so I guess that's just me.

they are not being dicks.

zilam knows full well where their money and time are going.

Like I said, they're telling half the truth, and that's neither lying or being honest.

How in any way is it "not being honest"? They said they have no money to give him and they don't. The fact that they did have spare money and chose instead to spend it on other things doesn't change that. Not telling someone the extent of your finances when you have no right to know is not being dishonest. It's choosing to not tell you personal details you have no right to know.

Explain your perspective to them. They may respond with their perspective or try helping you out in the manner you are looking for.

That's not in the slightest bit "lying". Saying "I have no free money to give you" isn't a lie, if I have no extra money to give you.

Declining to tell you what I spent with my money so that I have no more spare cash is not a lie, nor are you entitled to know.

Do you lack reading comprehension? I never said it was lying.

And I'm very much aware that nobody is entitled to know. I never said that anybody was... However, it would be a bit more respectful to come right out and say that they really have no obligation to support him, and thus are spending their money on themselves as they so please. To me, that's a hell of a lot better than "Sorry, we don't have any money.", and as it stands, that's exactly what I'd do in such a situation.

Then again, I don't like to be a dick, so I guess that's just me.

Do you think I have the right to be pissed at my parents? Or not? Have your parents ever done anything similar?

See, no one bothered to check to see that you're 20. Are you in college?

If you're a student, I'd say you have some right to be pissed. Your job is (first) to be a student and get good grades, and they're not being supportive- I mean, even if they didn't send you money they could probably send a gas card, or WalMart gift certificate or some little thing that could help. I mean, sure, on paper you may have enough spare time to pick up a job, but in reality that's rarely the case with studying, student organizations, and all.

If you're out working on your own, though... pick up a second job. :/ Sorry. Times are tough.

Being the kind of person that I am, I'd suggest that when your parents are on retirement and go to a Nursing home, when they ask for money you just tell them "Nope, sorry, I don't have any because I spend it on this, this and this."

:D

I would imagine the average kid owes their parents so much they could never repay. My oldest which is just this year going to graduate from the University of Washington cost me hundreds of thousands to raise. I have two more coming up and I have no doubt they will cost me more. So the three combined could never repay me. As for my parents even though they didn't pay for school or anything else for that matter after 18 they still put a lot of money into me.

But it was the parent's choice to have kids correct?
So, while I feel that children do owe something to their parents, whether it is money or otherwise, the parents are not exactly entitled to some sort of reward for voluntarily stuffing a baby with cash.

Yes and no. No, they shouldn't have to support you after you've left home, that's clear, but on the other hand to ask for a parental loan (if you have a good track record of paying it back) it somewhat different. My personal thoughts on the financial matters is talk it over with them, about their finanancial situation and yours. If you can manage then really it's their right to say no. If you're about to be kicked out of your home/in dire financial straights, then really I think they still have a certain parental responsibility to help you out, especially if it's only a loan (but then I support having a welfare state which will offer a safety net in these cases)

nor can she stop by here and see me on the way up there.


To be honest, I'd personally find that more hurtful than the financial issues.

That's not in the slightest bit "lying". Saying "I have no free money to give you" isn't a lie, if I have no extra money to give you.

Declining to tell you what I bought with my money so that I have no more spare cash is not a lie, nor are you entitled to know. They have no money to give him because they spent it on trips, snowmobiles, and concert tickets. That's entirely their right.

So is it alright for rich people to say they shouldn't pay more in taxes for social services because "they have no money to give" because they spend it on [insert exorbitant purchases here]?

Being the kind of person that I am, I'd suggest that when your parents are on retirement and go to a Nursing home, when they ask for money you just tell them "Nope, sorry, I don't have any because I spend it on this, this and this."

:D

at which point I'm sure they could inform him that if it weren't for him, and the literal tens of thousands of dollars his upbringing cost them, they'd have plenty to retire on.

So is it alright for rich people to say they shouldn't pay more in taxes

Do you have a legal obligation to pay taxes?

Yes?

Do they have a legal obligation to give him money?

No?

OK, your analogy sucks. It's not alright for "the rich" or anyone else to avoid taxes because, wait for it, they have a legal obligation to pay those taxes. Zilam's parents have no obligation to support him once he becomes an adult.

Being the kind of person that I am, I'd suggest that when your parents are on retirement and go to a Nursing home, when they ask for money you just tell them "Nope, sorry, I don't have any because I spend it on this, this and this."

:D

And what makes you think they'd ask, given that they have it to spend? :rolleyes:

Being the kind of person that I am, I'd suggest that when your parents are on retirement and go to a Nursing home, when they ask for money you just tell them "Nope, sorry, I don't have any because I spend it on this, this and this."

:D


I would imagine the average kid owes their parents so much they could never repay. My oldest which is just this year going to graduate from the University of Washington cost me hundreds of thousands to raise. I have two more coming up and I have no doubt they will cost me more. So the three combined could never repay me. As for my parents even though they didn't pay for school or anything else for that matter after 18 they still put a lot of money into me.

And what makes you think they'd ask, given that they have it to spend? :rolleyes:

Well in my family, the only reason anyone goes into a Nursing Home is that they're broke. And considering that both of Zilams parents seem to be spending on alot of luxury, they may end up there.

I'm frugal myself. I actually have enough money to buy my own Server. A small one, but a server neverless.

But the fact that his mom never stopped to visit on any of her trips is what really got to me. I mean, if I went on a trip to see somebody and had to go through a town my dad lived in, I wouldn't even so much as notify him, but that's another story (read: my dad's a pain).

And maybe Zilam is a pain? We may never know. :p

Dude, that bugged me, too. I have a family member that's always asking when the next time I'll visit is, and others lay the guilt on as if I can afford to drive across four states to visit. (They offered to give me gas money last time I went down there, and that was one of the reasons why I went. I put myself more than a few hundred dollars in debt because they didn't.)

This family member regularly takes trips to Nashville. I'm 20 minutes out of the way. If they drove twenty minutes off their path on the way home... they could see me.

Being the kind of person that I am, I'd suggest that when your parents are on retirement and go to a Nursing home, when they ask for money you just tell them "Nope, sorry, I don't have any because I spend it on this, this and this."

:D

Hahahaha.

Again, it's not the cutting off of money or them buying things that irks me, it's the fact that they seem to be just plain cutting him off, at least from the information he's given us. Sorry, but the "Sorry, we don't have any money right now" bit gets to me, because it shows a bit of disdain for him (at least as far as my experience goes --- several relatives were and still are exactly the same way, though money wasn't involved, yes, it's complicated).

But the fact that his mom never stopped to visit on any of her trips is what really got to me. I mean, if I went on a trip to see somebody and had to go through a town my dad lived in, I wouldn't even so much as notify him, but that's another story (read: my dad's a pain).

And maybe Zilam is a pain? We may never know. :p

at which point I'm sure they could inform him that if it weren't for him, and the literal tens of thousands of dollars his upbringing cost them, they'd have plenty to retire on.

...At which point I'd flip them off, kindly say "Well, looks like you're here until you die and I'm free for another few decades.", and leave for good.

So long as everybody's on the same track, no?

while psudo masturbatory revenge fantasies make for interesting thought processes, they rarely make for practical living

But it was the parent's choice to have kids correct?
So, while I feel that children do owe something to their parents, whether it is money or otherwise, the parents are not exactly entitled to some sort of reward for voluntarily stuffing a baby with cash.

It is not just the cash btw. However kids do have an obligation to their parents as well as parents to their children. Now how much of an obligation is determined really by the means that the children and the parents have at a time where either one needs help from the other. I don't know Zilam's particular money issues but this could well be that the parents are trying to teach him one of life's realities. As for them saying they don't have extra money is just them dodging the fact that they need to straight up tell him no.

To be honest, I'd personally find that more hurtful than the financial issues.

That's the part that leads me to believe it's a lot deeper than not wanting to loan him money.

<snip>my parents are self-involved dicks</snip>

Ok. You're an adult, right? Go, live your life. Have a good life! Just don't count certain disinterested parties in your calculations - they're obviously of the belief that they have no responsibility for your life - and perhaps they're right.

Once again, you dont' have to be upset or not upset. If it makes you feel good, be upset for a while. Or not.

Just go live your life. Oh, and don't invite them to any holiday dinners - tell them you're too fucking busy.

As for them saying they don't have extra money is just them dodging the fact that they need to straight up tell him no.

Yes, thank you. Finally, somebody actually thinks the same way about this as I do.

I would suppose you're a rather good parent.

Just go live your life. Oh, and don't invite them to any holiday dinners - tell them you're too fucking busy.

"Sorry, I'm all out of food this holiday." and then proceeding to tell them what a huge feast you hosted with the neighbors just a day or two preceeding would probably make a better mark.

I would imagine the average kid owes their parents so much they could never repay. My oldest which is just this year going to graduate from the University of Washington cost me hundreds of thousands to raise. I have two more coming up and I have no doubt they will cost me more. So the three combined could never repay me. As for my parents even though they didn't pay for school or anything else for that matter after 18 they still put a lot of money into me.
I don't know if this is your point of view, so this is directed at you per se, but it brings up something in general I see a lot.

If you're looking at kids from a financial cost/benefit analysis, please do the rest of us a favor and don't have kids.

Like you said your kids will never be able to pay it back nor should they have to. They didn't ask to be brought into the world and frankly shouldn't be penalized for your failure to pull out.

There's lots of good reasons to be a parent but how it can benefit the parent isn't one of them.

Well in my family, the only reason anyone goes into a Nursing Home is that they're broke. And considering that both of Zilams parents seem to be spending on alot of luxury, they may end up there.

I'm frugal myself. I actually have enough money to buy my own Server. A small one, but a server neverless.

Yeah, and Medicare will pick that up if you're broke. So what's the point?

Yeah, and Medicare will pick that up if you're broke.

...Not always...

I don't know if this is your point of view, so this is directed at you per se, but it brings up something in general I see a lot.

If you're looking at kids from a financial cost/benefit analysis, please do the rest of us a favor and don't have kids.

Like you said your kids will never be able to pay it back nor should they have to. They didn't ask to be brought into the world and frankly shouldn't be penalized for your failure to pull out.

There's lots of good reasons to be a parent but how it can benefit the parent isn't one of them.

And the point of the thread is kids asking for MORE money and being snarky about not getting it once they are out of the house, not "my kids should support me in my old age."

...Not always...

Funny, they did for my grandmother.

Yeah, and Medicare will pick that up if you're broke. So what's the point?

Turnabout is fair play?

Turnabout is fair play?

Now there is an adult reaction for you.

How many people in this thread actually are NOT living at home or depending on their parents to support them?

Funny, they did for my grandmother.

Funny, they didn't for my dad. The only thing that got him on medicare was the fact that he lost 97% of his kidney function late last year and wound up on dialysis.

Don't even go there.

Now there is an adult reaction for you.

How many people in this thread actually are NOT living at home or depending on their parents to support them?

I happen to be working 40 hours a week in a supermarket, having taken a year out of what should've been studying at a university, so I could support my dad because the government didn't want to. He may treat people like dog shit, but he doesn't deserve to die out on the street.

Again, don't even go there...

Turnabout is fair play?

You'd have a great point, if it wasn't for the parents already spent eighteen years or more supporting the child. So if you were actually interested in "fair play" and not just being immature and snarky, the proper response would be "ok, I'll pay for your food, clothes, medicine, shelter, and doctors bills, but only for the next 18 years, then you're on your own".

That's fair play.

I don't know if this is your point of view, so this is directed at you per se, but it brings up something in general I see a lot.

If you're looking at kids from a financial cost/benefit analysis, please do the rest of us a favor and don't have kids.

Like you said your kids will never be able to pay it back nor should they have to. They didn't ask to be brought into the world and frankly shouldn't be penalized for your failure to pull out.

There's lots of good reasons to be a parent but how it can benefit the parent isn't one of them.


This isn't my point of view. Looking at it from a financial cost/benefit analysis it would never work out. That is why I suspect that some do not have children.

I had children because I have the instinct to have them. As time grows and the family grows I know it will be very satisfying when I am at the end of my life looking back at what I had a hand in.

...Not always...

I am fairly entrenched in the Medicare industry. One can always get help. If they don't then it has to fall on themselves or their caretakers for the blame. If you personally need some advice for a relative you are welcome to message me in game.

You'd have a great point, if it wasn't for the parents already spent eighteen years or more supporting the child. So if you were actually interested in "fair play" and not just being immature and snarky, the proper response would be "ok, I'll pay for your food, clothes, medicine, shelter, and doctors bills, but only for the next 18 years, then you're on your own".

That's fair play.

I'm not disputing that the parents put alot of time, effort and money into Zilam. What I'm disputing is that really they should've just said "No you may not have money." or "Sorry son, but you're 18 now, time to make your own money."

Funny, they didn't for my dad. The only thing that got him on medicare was the fact that he lost 97% of his kidney function late last year and wound up on dialysis.

Don't even go there.

I happen to be working 40 hours a week in a supermarket, having taken a year out of what should've been studying at a university, so I could support my dad because the government didn't want to. He may treat people like dog shit, but he doesn't deserve to die out on the street.

Again, don't even go there...

Then why bring it up if you don't want to discuss it? :rolleyes:

You'd have a great point, if it wasn't for the parents already spent eighteen years or more supporting the child. So if you were actually interested in "fair play" and not just being immature and snarky, the proper response would be "ok, I'll pay for your food, clothes, medicine, shelter, and doctors bills, but only for the next 18 years, then you're on your own".

That's fair play.

My dad only spent nine years paying for me. I figure my sister spent $12,000 on us, which is easily refundable (rather, will be later on). My grandmother spent the most on us, and basically kept us alive for six years, though I can never pay her back, as she is no longer living, and her estate fell on us, so in a sense I paid myself back.

And I'm already paying my dad back for what he spent on me for the first nine years of my life. Paying for it with a year dropped out of school and forty hours a week in a supermarket with no vacation at age 19.

Where does that place me, hmm?

I happen to be working 40 hours a week in a supermarket, having taken a year out of what should've been studying at a university, so I could support my dad because the government didn't want to. He may treat people like dog shit, but he doesn't deserve to die out on the street.

Again, don't even go there...


I remember you talking about this before. How old was your dad if I may ask and is he classified as disabled in his state of residence?

Then why bring it up if you don't want to discuss it? :rolleyes:

It was more a word to the wise than a lack of willingness to discuss it. I'll gladly discuss it with you, and even argue.

But it's an argument you definitely aren't going to win, thus "don't even go there". I basically had to raise myself for half of my life starting at an early age, so say what you will. I've got experience.

Should I be upset?
Sure, you needed the money and they couldn't give it to you, plenty of reason to be upset.
But again, if I ask for money I get the reply "we don't have it right now". I mean, its not like I ask for money all the time from them, only if I need it, and I always offer to pay it back. I think I am more hurt than I am angry.

Do you think I have the right to be pissed at my parents? Or not?

Not. Regardless of why they don't have the money, they don't have it. Recently I was out of work for 3 weeks, with absolutely no income. I asked by parents if I could borrow the money so that I could make my mortgage payment on time, now as it happens, they were able to loan me the money, however, if they had not been able to I wouldn't have been pissed at them, I'm an adult its my responsibility to see to it that I have the money necessary, not theirs.

It was more a word to the wise than a lack of willingness to discuss it. I'll gladly discuss it with you, and even argue.

But it's an argument you definitely aren't going to win, thus "don't even go there". I basically had to raise myself for half of my life starting at an early age, so say what you will. I've got experience.

Well, as long as you're inclined to be reasonable about it, and a mind reader and clairvoyant as well, I suppose there's no point. :rolleyes:

Oddly enough I have experience too. What a shock.

Now there is an adult reaction for you.

How many people in this thread actually are NOT living at home or depending on their parents to support them?

Because the assumption you have there is that anyone who could understand his hurt over his parents not even being honest about financial issues with him (and not most people did not claim that they *should* give him money, merely that they should be honest about why they won't) must be those financially dependant on parents.

I'm not. I'm currently on a PhD studentship and despite getting some (approx £3000 inc fees) support from parents a year through uni, the only way I survived was with a part time job (since i couldn't get a student loan). I'm actually very glad I'm no longer financialy dependant on my parents, because I want to live as an idenpendant adult, I don't like feeling I'm reliant on others. However, I can still understand why he may be hurt by his parent's dishonesty and hippocracy to claim that they have no money to *lend* him despite evidence to the contrary.

I'm not disputing that the parents put alot of time, effort and money into Zilam. What I'm disputing is that really they should've just said "No you may not have money." or "Sorry son, but you're 18 now, time to make your own money."

Funny how that's not at all what you said, and spent your time describing how he should "have fair play" by not supporting his parents in their hypothetical time of need, and didn't at all suggest your issue was not what they did but what they (according to him) said.

He was 48 when he was first placed on Medicare, and they even told him outright that the only reason he was accepted was because my brother and I were too young to support him (13 and 10). As soon as my brother turned 18 (2003), the Medicare benefits were lowered. And when I turned 18, he was taken off Medicare completely.

Which really wasn't a problem, as he was well enough to work but chose not to for some stupid reason I'll likely never learn, and decided to blame us for our sorry financial state. And then, late last year, he got double pneumonia and what was left of his remaining kidney failed, and we were in a really bad place, as he had no insurance. The only thing that saved him (and us) was that he had to be placed on dialysis, which is an automatic case for Medicare and disability.

It's ironic that he could've been selling insurance for five good years and decided to act like he was disabled (he'd just lie down and watch TV all day long, never mind the fact that he was perfectly capable of riding his bike all over town for hours on end), when the circumstances finally got him and he is disabled, and there's far less money than we would've had otherwise.


Alright so he is on medicaide now and getting everything covered from the state you live in? I thought I recalled you saying you were in Texas a while back.

As for the insurance industry it can be a tough one to prosper if you do not have the right affiliations and drive to get out there and make it work.

It sounds to me that your dad is very depressed. That in itself makes things very difficult. I commend you on your efforts in taking care of him. You do not have an ordinary case and would suggest you do what you can however you also need to move yourself ahead. Life goes fast and you need to get your self on the right track.

I remember you talking about this before. How old was your dad if I may ask and is he classified as disabled in his state of residence?

He was 48 when he was first placed on Medicare, and they even told him outright that the only reason he was accepted was because my brother and I were too young to support him (13 and 10). As soon as my brother turned 18 (2003), the Medicare benefits were lowered. And when I turned 18, he was taken off Medicare completely.

Which really wasn't a problem, as he was well enough to work but chose not to for some stupid reason I'll likely never learn, and decided to blame us for our sorry financial state. And then, late last year, he got double pneumonia and what was left of his remaining kidney failed, and we were in a really bad place, as he had no insurance. The only thing that saved him (and us) was that he had to be placed on dialysis, which is an automatic case for Medicare and disability.

It's ironic that he could've been selling insurance for five good years and decided to act like he was disabled (he'd just lie down and watch TV all day long, never mind the fact that he was perfectly capable of riding his bike all over town for hours on end), when the circumstances finally got him and he is disabled, and there's far less money than we would've had otherwise.

Well, as long as you're inclined to be reasonable about it, and a mind reader and clairvoyant as well, I suppose there's no point. :rolleyes:

Oddly enough I have experience too. What a shock.

Never underestimate my mutant abilities. I know you find them alluring, appealing, even...

Because the assumption you have there is that anyone who could understand his hurt over his parents not even being honest about financial issues with him (and not most people did not claim that they *should* give him money, merely that they should be honest about why they won't) must be those financially dependant on parents.

and again, it seems zilam knows EXACTLY what his parents are spending it on, so unless he's spying on them, it seems they're being entirely upfront about what they are spending money on.

It seems that those against Zilam being "upset" about his parents actions base their position on that his parents raised him for 18 yrs with all the expenses involved and now should have the right to spend their money on whatever they wish now that he is an adult. To me that sounds incredibly selfish and cold. It is a position that kids somehow owe their parents for doing what is their responsibility the day their child was born. Now if parents want to spend their money on luxuries instead of ocassionally helping their kid out that is entirely their choice. But that doesn't mean I'm going to feel anything but contempt for them. I really don't think being a parent has an expiration date after all.

This doesn't mean that kids can forever demand things from their parents now thats not what i mean, but if on the child's eighteenth birthday you cut them off from any support whatsoever then i feel that you are shit as a parent.

In what way are they lying to him? They told him they don't have the money -- just because you don't approve of how they are spending it does not make it lying.

You have an odd sense of entitlement; are parents supposed to support you until the day they die?

Actually, this relates to the severity of the problems he's talking about.

I'm not disputing that the parents put alot of time, effort and money into Zilam. What I'm disputing is that really they should've just said "No you may not have money." or "Sorry son, but you're 18 now, time to make your own money."
QFT. THats my viewpoint exactly.


Although it could be argued that at the later stages in life, the situation is reversed......with you having to support your elderly parents.....but still, the financial viewpoint doesn't work out.

This doesn't mean that kids can forever demand things from their parents now thats not what i mean, but if on the child's eighteenth birthday you cut them off from any support whatsoever then i feel that you are shit as a parent.

I agree with this more than anyone else. I don't ask my parents for money, but my dad has stated that he wouldn't let me starve if he could help me- and I'm 20. If I need assistance, I know I can ask my parents. I'm assuming that Ziliam is doing the same.

Just because you're 18 doesn't mean you suddenly are able to get a job that allows you to make enough money to live, and as long as Ziliam is making his best effort to earn the money he can to survive... why are his parents being so cold?

Well, one can't really know the entire circumstances, but at face value, yes you should be pissed. Hopefully you can survive without the cash and give your parents the cold shoulder.

Because the assumption you have there is that anyone who could understand his hurt over his parents not even being honest about financial issues with him (and not most people did not claim that they *should* give him money, merely that they should be honest about why they won't) must be those financially dependant on parents.

I'm not. I'm currently on a PhD studentship and despite getting some (approx £3000 inc fees) support from parents a year through uni, the only way I survived was with a part time job (since i couldn't get a student loan). I'm actually very glad I'm no longer financialy dependant on my parents, because I want to live as an idenpendant adult, I don't like feeling I'm reliant on others. However, I can still understand why he may be hurt by his parent's dishonesty and hippocracy to claim that they have no money to *lend* him despite evidence to the contrary.

What "hippocracy"? (hypocrisy, btw). That they don't have money to give because they are spending it as they please? What dishonesty? that they don't have money to give him because they are spending it as they please?

(I certainly hope you spell check your papers if you're a PhD student.)

Alright so he is on medicaide now and getting everything covered from the state you live in? I thought I recalled you saying you were in Texas a while back.

As for the insurance industry it can be a tough one to prosper if you do not have the right affiliations and drive to get out there and make it work.

It sounds to me that your dad is very depressed. That in itself makes things very difficult. I commend you on your efforts in taking care of him. You do not have an ordinary case and would suggest you do what you can however you also need to move yourself ahead. Life goes fast and you need to get your self on the right track.

1: Yeah, he's completely covered, and we're still in Texas (meh).

2: He definitely had the affiliations and drive, but he just threw it all away. Don't know why, but ever since he's only blamed us (mostly me, I seem to be an all-purpose scapegoat).

3: He's very likely depressed, and if so, it's his own doing. He puts himself in a proverbial dungeon, hiding from everyone and everything, never telling people about any real problems. He shames himself over all of this for no reason other than that he thinks it's the right thing to do, and I find that disturbing, to say the least.

I'm finally getting on the right track, luckily. Just as life was starting to pass me by, it's slowing down. Finally, after all these years, it's all coming back.

What do you mean Neo Art? What does this have to do with realism?

The cold shoulder can really send a message to family.

Never underestimate my mutant abilities. I know you find them alluring, appealing, even...

Goofing around aside, I do often enjoy your posting -- though I may not (shock!) always agree with you.


And whoa.... nice prehensile tail there.... oh my god, that's not a tail, that's a.....

:eek::eek::eek:

I agree with this more than anyone else. I don't ask my parents for money, but my dad has stated that he wouldn't let me starve if he could help me- and I'm 20. If I need assistance, I know I can ask my parents. I'm assuming that Ziliam is doing the same.

Just because you're 18 doesn't mean you suddenly are able to get a job that allows you to make enough money to live, and as long as Ziliam is making his best effort to earn the money he can to survive... why are his parents being so cold?

I would think that as family we all have responsibility to help each other out. If the situation was reversed then I would think that Zilam should toss a little money his parents way. I guess that isn't a popular idea though... doing what you want for yourself is always the way people seem to go... age really should have no part in this anyway

Goofing around aside, I do often enjoy your posting -- though I may not (shock!) always agree with you.


And whoa.... nice prehensile tail there.... oh my god, that's not a tail, that's a.....

:eek::eek::eek:

I have come to sex you up, b--- *is shot*

1: Yeah, he's completely covered, and we're still in Texas (meh).

2: He definitely had the affiliations and drive, but he just threw it all away. Don't know why, but ever since he's only blamed us (mostly me, I seem to be an all-purpose scapegoat).

3: He's very likely depressed, and if so, it's his own doing. He puts himself in a proverbial dungeon, hiding from everyone and everything, never telling people about any real problems. He shames himself over all of this for no reason other than that he thinks it's the right thing to do, and I find that disturbing, to say the least.

I'm finally getting on the right track, luckily. Just as life was starting to pass me by, it's slowing down. Finally, after all these years, it's all coming back.

The putting himself away and wallowing in shame is a symptom of the depression. If possible, he should be screened for it -- perhaps he can get treatment.

Yes, you should be pissed. Hopefully you can survive without the cash and give your parents the cold shoulder.

so much for the great realist.

And I assume your parents are divorced?

You mentioned your mother's boyfriend and then spoke as if you asked them together and they said no, which seems a bit weird. :)

The putting himself away and wallowing in shame is a symptom of the depression. If possible, he should be screened for it -- perhaps he can get treatment.

No, trust me, the depression came from him hiding himself like that. He did it back when we had a small financial crisis in the early 1990s, but he didn't become depressed (it was a short period of time, so it wasn't a risk factor). He did, however, get angry more often than usual (and he's a very angry person as it is).

Maybe this thread should be called "Parents and their disorders, and why they have them".

No, trust me, the depression came from him hiding himself like that. He did it back when we had a small financial crisis in the early 1990s, but he didn't become depressed (it was a short period of time, so it wasn't a risk factor). He did, however, get angry more often than usual (and he's a very angry person as it is).

Maybe this thread should be called "Parents and their disorders, and why they have them".

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/male-depression/MC00041

Not to argue, but you might want a peek.

So, I was just talking to my mum on the phone awhile ago, only to find out that she is going up to see her boyfriend in northern Iowa, for the 5th time in the last 6 weeks. Also, get this. She just bought a snowmobile from up there to. But evidently, she can't help me with any money problems that I have, nor can she stop by here and see me on the way up there.

Now, at the same time, my dad went to go see Ace Frehly from KISS, and also just bought 5 tickets to go on a cruise....

But again, if I ask for money I get the reply "we don't have it right now". I mean, its not like I ask for money all the time from them, only if I need it, and I always offer to pay it back. I think I am more hurt than I am angry.

Do you think I have the right to be pissed at my parents? Or not? Have your parents ever done anything similar?

Should you be upset for your parents living their lives? I bloody well hope not. If you want money me thinks you should get a job.

I agree with this more than anyone else. I don't ask my parents for money, but my dad has stated that he wouldn't let me starve if he could help me- and I'm 20. If I need assistance, I know I can ask my parents. I'm assuming that Ziliam is doing the same.

Just because you're 18 doesn't mean you suddenly are able to get a job that allows you to make enough money to live, and as long as Ziliam is making his best effort to earn the money he can to survive... why are his parents being so cold?
Here the question though, does Ziliam really NEED the assistance? How often has he been asking for assistance? We don't know. He says he has a good track record of paying back the money, which leads me to wonder just how many times he has borrowed money from his parents.

I remember getting mad at my parents for pretty much the same thing, when in college I asked for some money because I was going to be short a bit at the end of the month and got told no because my parents didn't have any, just to find out that shortly afterwards they had gotten yet another new(er) car.

I was pretty pissed about it until I got brought up short by my mother who reminded me that the reason I was short wasn't due to being unable to find a job or get one that paid enough to live on, but that I had decided to get my first DVD player and payed about $100, which would have been enough to cover everything.

Being a parent does mean sacrifices (Most of my paycheck now-a-days goes to diapers and formula for my son, not to mention paying for all the wonderful paperwork that we'll need to do), but when that child becomes an adult, it's time for them to take an adult's responsibility, especially if they want to be treated as such by their parents.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/male-depression/MC00041

Not to argue, but you might want a peek.

It's definitely depression, but I have reason to believe it's mixed with a lot of other mental illnesses. For starters, he's definitely not suicidal... Instead, he's threatened to kill several family members, he's injured me on more than a few occasions, and he's very, very abusive. But then, he always has been, and his cousin (who I work with from time to time) attests to that.

I guess it goes a long way back.

It's definitely depression, but I have reason to believe it's mixed with a lot of other mental illnesses. For starters, he's definitely not suicidal... Instead, he's threatened to kill several family members, he's injured me on more than a few occasions, and he's very, very abusive. But then, he always has been, and his cousin (who I work with from time to time) attests to that.

I guess it goes a long way back.

*nods* Just stay safe, k?

Okay, let me be a little more clear on what is really bothering me. Its not the money issue. That was kind of a mask, to hide the issue, which is that I feel like they have abandoned me, with out notice. You know how sad it makes me that my mom can make time to go see this man, who has been unfaithful towards her, yet she can't even stop to see her own son, or even call me, although I have always done my best to make her happy and proud? That is what kills me.

Okay, let me be a little more clear on what is really bothering me. Its not the money issue. That was kind of a mask, to hide the issue, which is that I feel like they have abandoned me, with out notice. You know how sad it makes me that my mom can make time to go see this man, who was be unfaithful towards her, yet she can't even stop to see her own son, or even call me, although I have always done my best to make her happy and proud? That is what kills me.

Can't say as I really blame you there.

So, I was just talking to my mum on the phone awhile ago, only to find out that she is going up to see her boyfriend in northern Iowa, for the 5th time in the last 6 weeks. Also, get this. She just bought a snowmobile from up there to. But evidently, she can't help me with any money problems that I have, nor can she stop by here and see me on the way up there.

Now, at the same time, my dad went to go see Ace Frehly from KISS, and also just bought 5 tickets to go on a cruise....

But again, if I ask for money I get the reply "we don't have it right now". I mean, its not like I ask for money all the time from them, only if I need it, and I always offer to pay it back. I think I am more hurt than I am angry.

Do you think I have the right to be pissed at my parents? Or not? Have your parents ever done anything similar?


You have no right to be pissed off at your parents. The bolded part caught my eye - this isn't the first time you've asked for money, and stating that you always offer to pay it back kind of implies that you don't pay it back. Regardless of the relationship you have with your parents, asking to borrow something and not giving it back is a sure way to not receive a loan in the future. You seem to have asked for money on a number of occasions - perhaps they feel you see them as the easy answer when you are short of cash instead of sorting out your money management issues properly? Perhaps they are refusing to bail you out so that you learn to manage money and to be independent. Either way, the sentiment that they shouldn't buy nice things with their money because you might need it comes across as selfish and immature.

What "hippocracy"? (hypocrisy, btw). That they don't have money to give because they are spending it as they please? What dishonesty? that they don't have money to give him because they are spending it as they please?

(I certainly hope you spell check your papers if you're a PhD student.)

Bah, again I should realise not to post when drunk, I blame my spelling on that (and I'm usually the first to get annoyed at misspelled words).

But I contend, his parents obviously have money to spend of luxuries, people don't go on that many holidays, as a rule, unless they comfortably have enough money to live on it at other times. Somehow I doubt the conversation when "Sorry, we don't have the money because we're going holiday", they just said "we don't have the money". Factually correct yes, but the implication of that sort of statement is they don't have any real disposable income. Therefor there was a level of dishonesty there. You're right, hypocrisy was probably the wrong word to use in that situation.

I'm not saying they necessarily should give him the money, I am saying I can see how he'd be hurt by their *attitude* which seems dismissive rather than upfront and honest about the whole thing.

I have to ask, how recently was the divorce, because if it was very recent I'd guess that has something to do with it.

of course you should be upset the worlds a horrible place :)

but why does Zilam really need the money would be a question I'd really like to ask :p

In our culture, they would be deemed as extremely horrible parents. We don't think of children owing money to their parents; the entire clan reeled in abhorrence when we found out that a grandaunt of ours repeatedly tells her daughters that they should pay her back for everything... and one of her daughters who had an operation should pay her more because of the money she spent on the operation... for us, the parent-child relationship is close whatever the age; thus children know they can go to their parents for anything and parents could depend on their children to take care of them when they're old and frail. Adding insult to the injury is their perceived apathy/indifference...

In our culture, they would be deemed as extremely horrible parents...for us, the parent-child relationship is close whatever the age; thus children know they can go to their parents for anything and parents could depend on their children to take care of them when they're old and frail. Adding insult to the injury is their perceived apathy/indifference...

And while it is not the case obviously here, this attitude is why we have eternal teenagers who stay home living in their parent's basement being the eternal student, RPing or playing video games and expecting to be supported in this, who become the perfect parody for Bill Shatner's SNL skit "GET A LIFE!" http://www.123video.nl/playvideos.asp?MovieID=139313


(the red, bold, and larger type is so no one here misreads and thinks for a moment that I am categorizing Zilam in this way -- obviously he IS out of the house and trying to make a living at it.)

I'm not saying parents should not ever help their kids, nor that kids should not help their parents, but it seems selfish to expect people to drop whatever they are doing FOR LIFE because we feel they OWE us.

So Zilam's mom chooses not to see him on her way to her boyfriend, whom Zilam has told us he does not care for. Maybe she doesn't want or need an argument when she is on her way to see the man shes chosen to spend time with?

How often does Zilam invite her over, or call to ask if he can make a visit?

And while it is not the case obviously here, this attitude is why we have eternal teenagers who stay home living in their parent's basement being the eternal student, RPing or playing video games and expecting to be supported in this, who become the perfect parody for Bill Shatner's SNL skit "GET A LIFE!"

Um, no. I'm pretty sure this is incompatible with the culture.

In our culture, they would be deemed as extremely horrible parents. We don't think of children owing money to their parents; the entire clan reeled in abhorrence when we found out that a grandaunt of ours repeatedly tells her daughters that they should pay her back for everything... and one of her daughters who had an operation should pay her more because of the money she spent on the operation... for us, the parent-child relationship is close whatever the age; thus children know they can go to their parents for anything and parents could depend on their children to take care of them when they're old and frail. Adding insult to the injury is their perceived apathy/indifference...

Um, no. I'm pretty sure this is incompatible with the culture.

Um, no, I think you chose one phrase of what I was saying and completely ignored the rest of what I wrote.

Okay, let me be a little more clear on what is really bothering me. Its not the money issue. That was kind of a mask, to hide the issue, which is that I feel like they have abandoned me, with out notice. You know how sad it makes me that my mom can make time to go see this man, who has been unfaithful towards her, yet she can't even stop to see her own son, or even call me, although I have always done my best to make her happy and proud? That is what kills me.


youre an adult now.

if you feel that your relationship with your parents is going badly, talk to them about it. try to be non confrontational. tell them how you feel then be prepared to put more of an effort into it yourself. call more often, suggest times to get together, whatever.

if they cant be bothered to meet you half way, THEN you have a problem with your parents.

Um, no, I think you chose one phrase of what I was saying and completely ignored the rest of what I wrote.

Last edited by Katganistan : Today at 12:28 AM.

Not my fault, you edited that part in afterwards and I missed it...

Not my fault, you edited that part in afterwards and I missed it...

Ah, yes, adding in the Star Trek link completely changed the rest of the post.

So, I was just talking to my mum on the phone awhile ago, only to find out that she is going up to see her boyfriend in northern Iowa, for the 5th time in the last 6 weeks. Also, get this. She just bought a snowmobile from up there to. But evidently, she can't help me with any money problems that I have, nor can she stop by here and see me on the way up there.

Now, at the same time, my dad went to go see Ace Frehly from KISS, and also just bought 5 tickets to go on a cruise....

But again, if I ask for money I get the reply "we don't have it right now". I mean, its not like I ask for money all the time from them, only if I need it, and I always offer to pay it back. I think I am more hurt than I am angry.

Do you think I have the right to be pissed at my parents? Or not? Have your parents ever done anything similar?


Well, they aren't being very dutiful. Surely a child is more important than Hedonism?

However, like it or not, short of getting a gun or threatening them with "you'll never see your granchildren", you haven't got a lot of options.
Heres the main one I see:

Try to guilt trip them. Write letters about your need for bare essentials, but say you'll struggle on as you'd hate to be a burden to them etc.

If you have grandparents with influence try to enlist them to help you.

Or you could just write a letter along the lines of "Send me money or I will shoot myself to avoid starvation."

Ah, yes, adding in the Star Trek link completely changed the rest of the post.

I could have sworn the last three paragraphs weren't there when I quoted it. Well, can't show that now. Sorry about that, it's 1am. However, are you taking exception to the label of the parents as horrible or to the culture itself of parents obligated to support children and vice versa as a cause of eternal teenagerism? If it's the latter, then I'm not seeing how my point is invalidated.

Anyway, I reckon this is not all that useful when we don't know what the money is used for. Is Zilam a little strapped for cash, or is he about to be kicked out of his home into the gutter? The topic which the op has shifted the thread to is even less useful - subjective and vague much?

I'm not saying parents should not ever help their kids, nor that kids should not help their parents, but it seems selfish to expect people to drop whatever they are doing FOR LIFE because we feel they OWE us.
Well, socioeconomics is definitely a modifying factor. IMHO in a world of plenty, your scenario is definitely possible; in a world of poverty, both financially and in opportunity, it changes. Perhaps we can say that culturally, we have stronger family ties (and with all its benefits and evils :)) Also, that definition of "FOR LIFE" changes. Snowmobiles and cars and cruises are not essential "for life" (a definition affected again by the situation here, since we do not have snow...), we think that a child's education is more essential. This is why parents finance their child's education even up to college - that is the normal thing here. Because the thing is, an education is very helpful in order to have a decent-paying job in this poor country. Also, there is scarcity of opportunity. It is not easy to find a job; let alone hold a job that can pay all your rising expenses and rising tuition fees.

However, once the child is out of school, s/he is expected to find a job and help the parents in supporting the other siblings financially. Parents here breathe a sigh of relief when all of their children had finished school; now it is usually the children now who support the parents; but still, the parent-child relationship run deep. It is unthinkable for us children to leave their parents in a nursing home (that's why there are only few nursing homes here), it is tantamount to shameless abandonment (actually, that is many parents' worst nightmare - being left in nursing homes); and is frowned upon.

I could have sworn the last three paragraphs weren't there when I quoted it. Well, can't show that now. Sorry about that, it's 1am. However, are you taking exception to the label of the parents as horrible or to the culture itself of parents obligated to support children and vice versa as a cause of eternal teenagerism? If it's the latter, then I'm not seeing how my point is invalidated.

Anyway, I reckon this is not all that useful when we don't know what the money is used for. Is Zilam a little strapped for cash, or is he about to be kicked out of his home into the gutter? The topic which the op has shifted the thread to is even less useful - subjective and vague much?

when you are an adult and out of the house you have no right to know how your parents are spending their money.

its THEIR MONEY and they can do with it as they please. if it pleases them to waste it on themselves that is their business. they have no duty to set any aside just in case an adult child of theirs ends up in financial difficulties.

zilams parents have done nothing wrong. they dont owe him money, an accounting of what they are doing with their money, or an explanation of why they are not willing or able to lend him money right now.

when you are an adult and out of the house you have no right to know how your parents are spending their money.

its THEIR MONEY and they can do with it as they please. if it pleases them to waste it on themselves that is their business. they have no duty to set any aside just in case an adult child of theirs ends up in financial difficulties.

zilams parents have done nothing wrong. they dont owe him money, an accounting of what they are doing with their money, or an explanation of why they are not willing or able to lend him money right now.

What about their duty as parents?

You're stuck with each other for life. You can't abdicate responsibility for your children and say "nope, they ain't ma problem anehmor" when it suits you.

What about their duty as parents?

You're stuck with each other for life. You can't abdicate responsibility for your children and say "nope, they ain't ma problem anehmor" when it suits you.

what duty as parents have they violated?

what duty as parents have they violated?

Their duty to always care for their child and provide for them.

Their duty to always care for their child and provide for them.

there is no such duty.

Okay, let me be a little more clear on what is really bothering me. Its not the money issue. That was kind of a mask, to hide the issue, which is that I feel like they have abandoned me, with out notice. You know how sad it makes me that my mom can make time to go see this man, who has been unfaithful towards her, yet she can't even stop to see her own son, or even call me, although I have always done my best to make her happy and proud? That is what kills me.

The issue with your mom is that she is probably going through a second teen stage. At least the way you describe it that is what it sounds. I seriously would not take this to heart. As for the guy being unfaithful to her all you can do is almost take a parental role and tell her what you think and the rest is up to her. After all our parents are only human.

What about their duty as parents?

You're stuck with each other for life. You can't abdicate responsibility for your children and say "nope, they ain't ma problem anehmor" when it suits you.
Um... no, see, I'm pretty sure you CAN. It's called growing up, you know, the whole POINT of raising a child?

When a child becomes an adult, they assume adult responsibility and accountability. It's a two way street of course, parents have to acknowledge that their children are not 4 years old any more, but children also have to acknowledge that mommy and daddy are no longer responsible for them, and indeed mommy and daddy do have lives of their own beyond their role as parents.

There should be love there, yes, and that would compel a parent to help out their child as much as they could. But I would be seriously pissed off if my mother made my choices for me as if I was still a child instead of sneaking up on 30, and my mother would be rightly pissed off if I treated her like the Bank of Mom and demand an allowance as I did when I was 10.

there is no such duty.

Of Course there is. Just there's Duty to one's Soverign, Nation, People, parents, family, staff, animals, trees...

Of Course there is. Just there's Duty to one's Soverign, Nation, People, parents, family, staff, animals, trees...

no

you have a duty to raise your children to adulthood.

once they are adults, you have the same responsibility to them that you have to any adult family member. once you are all adults, you are equal. they dont have to do what you say; you dont have to suspend your own life in favor of theirs.

zilam's parent had no DUTY to have money set aside for his use.

Their duty to always care for their child and provide for them.

Up until they are 18 that duty is fairly clear. Once the child becomes an adult that duty is diminished. How much of a duty is also a factor here after 18. The vast majority of parents would never let their adult kids go homeless or hungry. However if it is a problem that is not life threatening that is where it becomes optional for the parent to help. Then it is up to the parent if they want to help or not.

My 22yr old son ran up 5k on a credit card at college that I paid the full tuition for just last year. I am not going to pay that CC off. So he had to go out and get a small job to cover that debt. This was after I had a talk with him about irresponsible financial mistakes. He took responsibility and paid it.

Well, if Hedonism is valued more than families nowadays...

Well, if Hedonism is valued more than families nowadays...
No, more like actually raising a child to adulthood and independence is valued.

To be fully independent is impossible.

Well, if Hedonism is valued more than families nowadays...

YEAH!

geez why should the parents of adult children living away from home give a second thought to their children's financial needs? why should they forego buying snowmobiles or going on cruises just in case their little darling should need a few bucks?

if they had done these things while they had children at home to the extent that they couldnt provide for their children, then they would have failed intheir parental duties. but even then they had no duty to skip a great vacation so that they could buy jr a new ipod.

To be fully independent is impossible.

Really? How so?

To be fully independent is impossible.

who are your parents financially dependent on?

What about their duty as parents?

You're stuck with each other for life. You can't abdicate responsibility for your children and say "nope, they ain't ma problem anehmor" when it suits you.

So a ninety year old mother should financially support a fifty year old son?
Seriously, when are people old enough to care for themselves?
Would I generally consider an 18 year old as possibly needing help? Yes. But a 20 year old? 30 year old?

Where do you get the idea that mummy and daddy have a responsibility to raise you from cradle to grave?

I'd be pissed, but then again my parents are letting me live with them unemployed and hand me money whenever I want. I have it too good, I can admit, so I don't know if your situation is "bad" or "normal"According to your logic when my parents are older (retired), and possibly in need of cash or help, then I can just say 'bug off'.

So a ninety year old mother should financially support a fifty year old son?
Seriously, when are people old enough to care for themselves?
Would I generally consider an 18 year old as possibly needing help? Yes. But a 20 year old? 30 year old?

Where do you get the idea that mummy and daddy have a responsibility to raise you from cradle to grave?

If the child needed help The parent should offer it.

The idea comes from a sense of Duty.

You have no right to be pissed off at your parents. The bolded part caught my eye - this isn't the first time you've asked for money, and stating that you always offer to pay it back kind of implies that you don't pay it back.Heh. I took it as an implication that they never loan him any money. *shrug*

Do you think I have the right to be pissed at my parents? Or not? Have your parents ever done anything similar?
you have the right to be pissed at anyone for any reason.

however, you also have to understand that your parents have their lives to live as well. I never asked my parents for money. I got a job and I worked for my money (yes, even through High School and College.)

and if I needed more, then I did without. I sold my CD's, movies and even old comics/books for extra cash.

So a ninety year old mother should financially support a fifty year old son?
Seriously, when are people old enough to care for themselves?
Would I generally consider an 18 year old as possibly needing help? Yes. But a 20 year old? 30 year old?

Where do you get the idea that mummy and daddy have a responsibility to raise you from cradle to grave?

Twenty year olds are often still in school, having recently finished undergrad, I can say that I did need a lot of help from my parents and I don't think it was unreasonable either, it's rather hard when your parents make too much money to qualify you for government assistance and can only really work 4 months of the year (I tried working through the school year, it almost killed me and I did abysmally).

It's unreasonable for parents to support their children for their whole lives, but they should at least give them the tools to be able to act as financially independent beings, this includes help when it comes to receiving an education and generally getting off the ground. You can't just have kids and expect that at 18 they're ready for the world and should be able to make it entirely on their own.

So, I was just talking to my mum on the phone awhile ago, only to find out that she is going up to see her boyfriend in northern Iowa, for the 5th time in the last 6 weeks. Also, get this. She just bought a snowmobile from up there to. But evidently, she can't help me with any money problems that I have, nor can she stop by here and see me on the way up there.

Now, at the same time, my dad went to go see Ace Frehly from KISS, and also just bought 5 tickets to go on a cruise....

But again, if I ask for money I get the reply "we don't have it right now". I mean, its not like I ask for money all the time from them, only if I need it, and I always offer to pay it back. I think I am more hurt than I am angry.

Do you think I have the right to be pissed at my parents? Or not? Have your parents ever done anything similar?

stop whining. get a job. :rolleyes:

So, I was just talking to my mum on the phone awhile ago, only to find out that she is going up to see her boyfriend in northern Iowa, for the 5th time in the last 6 weeks. Also, get this. She just bought a snowmobile from up there to. But evidently, she can't help me with any money problems that I have, nor can she stop by here and see me on the way up there.
Now, at the same time, my dad went to go see Ace Frehly from KISS, and also just bought 5 tickets to go on a cruise....
But again, if I ask for money I get the reply "we don't have it right now". I mean, its not like I ask for money all the time from them, only if I need it, and I always offer to pay it back. I think I am more hurt than I am angry.
Do you think I have the right to be pissed at my parents? Or not? Have your parents ever done anything similar?

There are other factors in your situation to consider, for starters what your relationship is like with your parents, what jobs they have, how often they've given you financial support over the years (if any), or what other issues they may face.
So any answer i give can only really be a generalised one, and those are a bit useless when you focus on a particular situation.
Nevertheless i can say that my parents stick by what my college advise them on how much money to send toward me, of course if they stopped handing money over i might be a bit perplexed, but it is my own life i have responsibility for. Sure my parents will help me but i can't ask for money all the time. Even if you compare my situation with yours it's totally different. If i did suffer from money issues i would speak to my college, and parents too if i was desperate (desperate depends on level of money issues, ie ability to pay rent, food or to buy new clothes).

So what i'm saying is i'd ask my parents for money, but if they refused well i can't force them to hand over money as they are voluntarily helping me so i'd just have to find a better paying job.
Money issues are always tricky to resolve, so if i did offer general advice it would be to talk to them.

Okay, let me be a little more clear on what is really bothering me. Its not the money issue. That was kind of a mask, to hide the issue, which is that I feel like they have abandoned me, with out notice. You know how sad it makes me that my mom can make time to go see this man, who has been unfaithful towards her, yet she can't even stop to see her own son, or even call me, although I have always done my best to make her happy and proud? That is what kills me.
they do have their own lives to live.

as for their relationship towards you? how often do you call your mother to say 'Hi, just calling to see how you are doing."?

how often do you invite her over to visit you?

if you don't talk to her, make her feel that she is still apart of your life, how can you expect her to visit you without feeling like she's intruding?

What about their duty as parents?

You're stuck with each other for life. You can't abdicate responsibility for your children and say "nope, they ain't ma problem anehmor" when it suits you.
sorry, but once a 'child' reaches the age of 18, the Duty as Parents ends.

Twenty year olds are often still in school, having recently finished undergrad, I can say that I did need a lot of help from my parents and I don't think it was unreasonable either, it's rather hard when your parents make too much money to qualify you for government assistance and can only really work 4 months of the year (I tried working through the school year, it almost killed me and I did abysmally).

It's unreasonable for parents to support their children for their whole lives, but they should at least give them the tools to be able to act as financially independent beings, this includes help when it comes to receiving an education and generally getting off the ground. You can't just have kids and expect that at 18 they're ready for the world and should be able to make it entirely on their own.

its great to have parents to fall back on when you (as is almost inevitable) screw up and really need help. it makes life so much easier when you are just starting out.

but it is not their job to delay whatever fun they have decided to have after you are out of the house just in case you might need some more cash. they have their own lives to live too.

its great to have parents to fall back on when you (as is almost inevitable) screw up and really need help. it makes life so much easier when you are just starting out.

but it is not their job to delay whatever fun they have decided to have after you are out of the house just in case you might need some more cash. they have their own lives to live too.
My parents have other kids, they're not done "putting their lives on hold" or whatever. And I do think that it's a person's duty to put their offspring through school. It's why I'm not having kids until I'm earning enough that I can start to save up for their education.

My parents have other kids, they're not done "putting their lives on hold" or whatever. And I do think that it's a person's duty to put their offspring through school. It's why I'm not having kids until I'm earning enough that I can start to save up for their education.

no its not their duty.

if they choose to do it, its a wonderful thing. if they dont, they are not bad parents.

your parents are giving you a great gift that i am sure you dont take for granted.

sorry, but once a 'child' reaches the age of 18, the Duty as Parents ends.

What if the child gets sacked and evicted when they're 19.

Are you actually mean enough to say they shouldn't come to your door and ask for help?

no its not their duty.

if they choose to do it, its a wonderful thing. if they dont, they are not bad parents.

your parents are giving you a great gift that i am sure you dont take for granted.
I think that part of being a parent is making sure that you've done all you can to let your kids be successful. Granted, there's not much you can do if they don't do any work to help themselves, but I know that I wouldn't have been able to go to school if my parents hadn't helped. Like, I couldn't even get student loans.

What if the child gets sacked and evicted when they're 19. what if they were 25? what if they were 40? after the age of 18, the duty (as you put it) ceases to be a duty and becomes a voluntary position.

Are you actually mean enough to say they shouldn't come to your door and ask for help?

key word there. Ask.

that does not guarentee that your parents CAN help you. they will do so if they can, but there is no guarentee that they are able to help.

What if the child gets sacked and evicted when they're 19.

Are you actually mean enough to say they shouldn't come to your door and ask for help?

yes but they dont have a parental duty to take you in. your adult brother would have the same "duty" to make sure you dont end up on the street as your parents do.

I think that part of being a parent is making sure that you've done all you can to let your kids be successful. Granted, there's not much you can do if they don't do any work to help themselves, but I know that I wouldn't have been able to go to school if my parents hadn't helped. Like, I couldn't even get student loans.

as i said, it is very good of them to help you out. but there must be limits to such generosity. for example, if you had decided to go to the most expensive private university in canada and then expected that they would go into massive debt in order to pay the full tuition, that would just be wrong. it is your duty as an adult to make sure that you dont have them pay one dollar more than is necessary.

as i said, it is very good of them to help you out. but there must be limits to such generosity. for example, if you had decided to go to the most expensive private university in canada and then expected that they would go into massive debt in order to pay the full tuition, that would just be wrong. it is your duty as an adult to make sure that you dont have them pay one dollar more than is necessary.
Well, they're not paying for me anymore, I'm in grad school so I get enough of a stipend to get by. My parents also didn't go into debt for my education, they had a savings plan that they started when I was born.

If the child needed help The parent should offer it.

The idea comes from a sense of Duty.

No, this idea comes from a twelve year old's sense of entitlement.

Twenty year olds are often still in school, having recently finished undergrad, I can say that I did need a lot of help from my parents and I don't think it was unreasonable either, it's rather hard when your parents make too much money to qualify you for government assistance and can only really work 4 months of the year (I tried working through the school year, it almost killed me and I did abysmally).

It's unreasonable for parents to support their children for their whole lives, but they should at least give them the tools to be able to act as financially independent beings, this includes help when it comes to receiving an education and generally getting off the ground. You can't just have kids and expect that at 18 they're ready for the world and should be able to make it entirely on their own.

Please read the posts of Dukeburyshire, to whom that post was in answer.

Well, they're not paying for me anymore, I'm in grad school so I get enough of a stipend to get by. My parents also didn't go into debt for my education, they had a savings plan that they started when I was born.

my comments were not intended toward you personally. im just generally shocked at the idea that parents are required to support their adult kids--even those out of school and working and living on their own. my own parents helped me through college and my husband and i are happy to be able to pay our son's tuition (when he can be bothered to go).

yes but they dont have a parental duty to take you in. your adult brother would have the same "duty" to make sure you dont end up on the street as your parents do.

Duty is obligation to do something because of one's position relative to that something. The Brother would not act from Duty he would act from Kindness.

Duty is obligation to do something because of one's position relative to that something. The Brother would not act from Duty he would act from Kindness.

both brother and parents would act from the same basis.

duty, family, love, whatever.

both brother and parents would act from the same basis.

duty, family, love, whatever.

Never confuse Duty with Love.

Never confuse Duty with Love.

i didnt.

both brother and parents would act from the same basis.

duty, family, love, whatever.

That is a very strange statment to make if you didn't.

That is a very strange statment to make if you didn't.

they were suggestions of the various reasons why anyone might take in an 18 year old loser.

they were suggestions of the various reasons why anyone might take in an 18 year old loser.

Kindly don't use such terms about hypothetical personages.

And why are they a "looser"? They're unlucky granted, but not a looser. That's someone at a Blackjack table.

Kindly don't use such terms about hypothetical personages.

And why are they a "looser"? They're unlucky granted, but not a looser. That's someone at a Blackjack table.

pfffft.

he shows up at a family members door needing to be let in out of the cold because he has no where else to go. hes a loser.

pfffft.

he shows up at a family members door needing to be let in out of the cold because he has no where else to go. hes a loser.

He's suffered unpleasant circumstances that aren't his fault!

He's suffered unpleasant circumstances that aren't his fault!

of course they are his fault. he shouldnt have spent his meager pay on that party that he only had so he could invite the hot chick from starbucks! no wonder he couldnt pay his rent and got kicked out!

and after all that she took up with his best friend instead.

loser loser loser.

of course they are his fault. he shouldnt have spent his meager pay on that party that he only had so he could invite the hot chick from starbucks! no wonder he couldnt pay his rent and got kicked out!

and after all that she took up with his best friend instead.

loser loser loser.

I never said any of that.

And I don't want to hear about your domestic troubles thank-you-very-much!

So, I was just talking to my mum on the phone awhile ago, only to find out that she is going up to see her boyfriend in northern Iowa, for the 5th time in the last 6 weeks. Also, get this. She just bought a snowmobile from up there to. But evidently, she can't help me with any money problems that I have, nor can she stop by here and see me on the way up there.

Now, at the same time, my dad went to go see Ace Frehly from KISS, and also just bought 5 tickets to go on a cruise....

But again, if I ask for money I get the reply "we don't have it right now". I mean, its not like I ask for money all the time from them, only if I need it, and I always offer to pay it back. I think I am more hurt than I am angry.

Do you think I have the right to be pissed at my parents? Or not? Have your parents ever done anything similar?

This is not pre-Revolutionary France; you can get money in ways besides being born with it. If you need more money, figure out a way to acquire it. Is that not what your parents did? They could have legally given you-up for adoption, but they instead donated much of their life and their finances to raise you. Must you keep pestering them? If I was in your position, I would be trying to figure out how to pay my parents back for what they did already.

at which point I'm sure they could inform him that if it weren't for him, and the literal tens of thousands of dollars his upbringing cost them, they'd have plenty to retire on.

Most estimates place the total cost of raising a kid at $250,000-$500,000.