NationStates Jolt Archive


Trees vs Sun.

Zilam
29-02-2008, 21:02
http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/02/29/redwoods.vs.solar.ap/index.html
SUNNYVALE, California (AP) -- In an environmental dispute seemingly scripted for eco-friendly California, a man asked prosecutors to file charges against his neighbors because their towering redwoods blocked sunlight to his backyard solar panels.
art.solar.trees.ap.jpg

Mark Vargas shows the solar panels on his home that get blocked by his neighbors trees in Santa Clara, California.

But the couple next door insisted they should not have to chop down the trees to accommodate Mark Vargas' energy demands because they planted the redwoods before he installed the solar panels in 2001.

Experts say such clashes could become more common as California promotes renewable energy and solar systems become more popular.

"Five or ten years ago, you wouldn't have seen this case because there weren't that many systems around," said Frank Schiavo, a retired environmental-studies professor at San Jose State University. "I can almost guarantee there are going to be more conflicts."

After more than six years of legal wrangling, a judge recently ordered Richard Treanor and his wife, Carolyn Bissett, to cut down two of their eight redwoods, citing an obscure state law that protects a homeowner's right to sunlight.

The couple does not plan to appeal the ruling because they can no longer afford the legal expenses, but they plan to lobby state lawmakers to change or scrap the law.

The Solar Shade Control Act means that homeowners can "suddenly become a criminal the day a tree grows big enough to shade a solar panel," Treanor said.

The case marks the first time a homeowner has been convicted of violating the law, which was enacted three decades ago, when few homeowners had solar systems.

The law requires homeowners to keep their trees or shrubs from shading more than 10 percent of a neighbor's solar panels between 10 a.m. and 2 p.m., when the sun is strongest. Existing trees that cast shadows when the panels are installed are exempt, but new growth is subject to the law.

Residents can be fined up to $1,000 a day for violations, though the judge did not impose any fines against the Treanors.

Vargas says the law protects his $70,000 investment in solar power, and he believes it should be strengthened.

"I think it's unfair that a neighbor can take away this source of energy from another neighbor," he said.

Treanor, a retired engineer, said he and his wife are not against solar power, "but we think there's a rational way to implement it."

Solar power is growing rapidly in California, which is by far the nation's biggest generator of solar energy. In 2007, more than 30,000 California homes and businesses had rooftop solar panels, with the capacity to generate 400 megawatts of electricity.

That's as much as eight power plants, according to the nonprofit Environment California.

The boom is being fueled by the California Solar Initiative, which offers homeowners and businesses more than $3 billion in rebates over the next decade to install solar-electric systems.

Both sides say they want to do what's best for the environment.

Treanor and Bissett, who drive a hybrid Toyota Prius, argue that trees absorb carbon dioxide, cool the surrounding air and provide a habitat for wildlife.

Vargas, who recently bought a plug-in electric car, counters it would take two or three acres of trees to reduce carbon dioxide emissions as much as the solar panels that cover his roof and backyard trellis.

Bernadette Del Chiaro, clean energy advocate for Environment California, says the solar shade law might need to be revised to prevent similar disputes.

"We want to make sure we are protecting individuals who have invested a lot of money in solar power, which is an important resource for the state," she said. But lawmakers might want to "take a look at the policy and make sure it's written in a way that's fair to everybody

Interesting case, I think. Who do you think had the more compelling case? Personally, I thought that the guy with the solar panels should have moved them to a location where the trees wouldn't block the sun. But, since he didn't I still believe that he was in the wrong, because, as the article says, the trees were planted long before the panels were put in.

And really, what does a lawsuit like this make way for? Perhaps I should sue someone for having a hybrid or electric car. Their emissionless vehicles are depriving my plants of need CO2! Just messing, but i do think that this was a stupid lawsuit, and opens the way for more stupid lawsuits regarding eco-friendly lifestyles.
Mott Haven
29-02-2008, 21:13
http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/02/29/redwoods.vs.solar.ap/index.html


Interesting case, I think. Who do you think had the more compelling case? Personally, I thought that the guy with the solar panels should have moved them to a location where the trees wouldn't block the sun. But, since he didn't I still believe that he was in the wrong, because, as the article says, the trees were planted long before the panels were put in.

And really, what does a lawsuit like this make way for? Perhaps I should sue someone for having a hybrid or electric car. Their emissionless vehicles are depriving my plants of need CO2! Just messing, but i do think that this was a stupid lawsuit, and opens the way for more stupid lawsuits regarding eco-friendly lifestyles.

Trees win. They were there first, on private property, and people should assume a tree will grow to its natural height.

BTW, you are late. People are already complaining about electric cars, the first lawsuit is probably in the works. The issue is that blind people do not hear them and feel endangered by them.
Khadgar
29-02-2008, 21:16
Yet another reason why civilization sucks.
Chruatia
29-02-2008, 21:45
lol, green energy vs trees
Nanatsu no Tsuki
29-02-2008, 21:47
Let the trees win!
Mad hatters in jeans
29-02-2008, 21:49
When i saw the title i had a picture of a tree fighting off the sun in the sky.

Apart from that interesting article. Maybe both the owner of the solar panel and the tree should make efforts to move the tree to a different location where it can survive normally.
If this isn't possible, then i suppose the tree will have to be cut.sadly.
Lord Tothe
29-02-2008, 21:58
Trees win. They were there first, on private property, and people should assume a tree will grow to its natural height.

BTW, you are late. People are already complaining about electric cars, the first lawsuit is probably in the works. The issue is that blind people do not hear them and feel endangered by them.

And Electric car drivers don't pay the taxes that are included in the price of gas. Gas taxes cover road construction, and those &%#$% enviro wackos are usin' the roads for free!

/sarcasm off

I plan to convert my car to electric as soon as I can afford the expense and a second car to drive during the conversion process.

The owner of the trees could recoup some of his legal expenses if the trees are large enough to be converted to lumber. Or he could build a redwood deck. Or a redwood fence between his property and the lawsuit-happy neighbor.
Mad hatters in jeans
29-02-2008, 22:04
A. Judging by the size of those trees; they were ther first.
B. The solar panels could be instaled on his roof.
C. Solar panels should face Southerly direction for optimum sunlight.
D. The guy does kind of look like a jerk.

your reasoning was going so well until it got to "the guy does kind of look like a jerk", :p.

I can picture that in a courtroom
Defendant: He killed my family and ate their babies!

Accused: well they tasted nice okay, am i a criminal because i want to eat?

Defendant: You're a monster! i hope you rot in prison!

Judge: Order! I find the accused not guilty of manslaughter because he looks
like a really nice guy, and nice guys don't kill people, i think the defendant should go to prison though. Because people who have mullets should not be allowed to survive in our society.

Accused: yay! *evil look then slinks back into the shadows*

Defendant: Curses, foiled again.
(joke by the way)
Querinos
29-02-2008, 22:06
A. Judging by the size of those trees; they were ther first.
B. The solar panels could be instaled on his roof.
C. Solar panels should face Southerly direction for optimum sunlight.
D. The guy does kind of look like a jerk.
Vetalia
29-02-2008, 22:09
Just put in geothermal or something. Either that, or put solar panels in the trees...that would look cool.
The Loyal Opposition
29-02-2008, 22:29
Either that, or put solar panels in the trees...that would look cool.

The average tree is already covered in thousands of solar panels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaf). This looks like a job for some kind of genetic engineering and nanotechnology. Trees with built in electrical outlets...

..that eventually develop consciousness, organize, and enslave humanity.

Oh well.
Aardweasels
29-02-2008, 22:30
FYI, redwood trees can grow up to 3 feet a year. Given that the solar panels were installed in 2001, even if the trees were planted before then, it's likely they weren't covering the solar panels at that time.

Granted, the guy who installed the panels should have realized they WOULD grow to shade his solar panels, but I can sort of see his point too. We're talking about Sunnyvale, California. He probably doesn't have much space to install these panels, and it's very likely there are laws about where they can be installed (being in a regular earthquake zone) so it's possible he couldn't install them on his roof.
The Alma Mater
29-02-2008, 22:35
Genesis tells us trees (day 3) were there before the sun (day 4).

First come, first serve ;)