NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm self taught as well.

Look up scales and chords. If you've got any sense of rythym, you should be able to pick it up to write your own stuff.

Other than that, learning others' songs is a good way to start.

I was wondering if there were any self-taught guitar players here. I'm attempting to learn, but it's slow going when the only method I have is looking up songs online and attempting to figure them using chords someone else wrote out and the recordings.

Any online lessons (free- I'm a broke university student) or techniques that could be useful to someone who is basically starting from nothing?

Your library will have dozens of how-to guitar books for beginners. The internet has tabs for any song you can think of, sheet music less often but still pretty often. When I was starting out, I liked the classical guitar show on PBS with the British guy who just died; your library might have those tapes, 'Guitar with Frederick Noad,' for free rather than the several hundred dollars PBS will charge you.

If you like popular music, just google what you like for sheet music or tabs. If you like classical guitar, I'd suggest http://www.classtab.org/ for now. :)

I was wondering if there were any self-taught guitar players here. I'm attempting to learn, but it's slow going when the only method I have is looking up songs online and attempting to figure them using chords someone else wrote out and the recordings.

Any online lessons (free- I'm a broke university student) or techniques that could be useful to someone who is basically starting from nothing?

One of the guitar players in my band is self taught, and he is a far better songwriter and plays far better than the guy who has had lessons for years.


He learned by just learning to play songs via tabs for a while. It can be done.

Start with fifth chords, they're guitar's best friend. :)

I'm self taught as well.

Look up scales and chords. If you've got any sense of rhythm, you should be able to pick it up to write your own stuff.

Other than that, learning others' songs is a good way to start.

Not looking to write so much as just be able to play for myself. I think I'm having trouble with coordinating my hands. It's damn difficult when you're used to instruments that don't have your hands doing totally separate things.

I'm probably impatient and just expecting myself to pick this up more quickly than I actually can.

Start with fifth chords, they're guitar's best friend. :)

Fifth as in.. The fifth is in the root? Sorry, I'm dumb at speaking guitar. :/ I've had Theory beaten in to my head so much that "fifth" means the fifth scale degree.

Root + fifth (and sometimes + octave).

A--2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9
E--0-1-2-3-4-5-6-7

Also known as the power chord. :)

I'm self taught so here's some tips.

1. Start with C, Am, D and G and simply practice strumming first, play around with the order of those chords, they're extremely flexible. You also need to get your fingers used to changing positions comfortably.

2. Take a couple of days break now and again, this works for both sports and languages and it simply allows muscle memory to sink in rather than force the brain to continually learn.

3. Given the first three chords, stick on Bob Dylan's Knockin' on Heavens Door and play the G, D, Am - much like singing, having the song playing helps speed up the process.

You'll find when learning anything that it's not a linear process, there's flat plains and steep cliffs. This means you might find yourself stuck on a flat plain for a while, seemingly going nowhere but you'll suddenly pick up a technique and, as you explore all the variations of that technique, you'll have a wild ride up before hitting another flat plain.

It happens, simply being aware of it helps to get you though it.

EDIT: Two books, or tabs you can download that are pretty easy to play and very recognisable for beginners in terms of chords are:

Tracy Chapman: Tracy Chapman
Pink Floyd: The Wall

Go find those and play away.

If you really want to be a good guitar player and not a poseur-chump like most guitar players:

1) Learn the "theory" as you learn your left hand. Don't play a single note without knowing what it is, and don't play a chord without knowing what all the notes are, and their spot in the harmonic structure. I have personally known very few guitar players who know this stuff, so you'll probably have to get advice from a bass or keys player like myself.

2) Position your guitar at the correct height and not down in phallus-compensator land. Learn correct pick technique. I know nothing about correct pick technique, but as near as I can figure it's about equal to the golf swing on the esoteric/unnaturalness scale - you have to practice it correctly to learn it.

3) Maintain your guitar well - neck straight, strings younger than your pet rat, action height appropriate, and tune when it goes out even slightly.

4) Turn down. You're too loud. Your lows are too boomy, your highs to piercing, and you have no idea what you sound like out in the mix out in the house. Play less, listen more. Also, since you will be playing guitar, you will have no sense of rhythm or tempo and should follow the bass and drums (DON'T RUSH). If your drummer and bass player don't agree, one of them is wrong. Ask the sound guy which one is correct and fire the other, or just fire both.

4) Turn down. You're too loud. Your lows are too boomy, your highs to piercing, and you have no idea what you sound like out in the mix out in the house. Play less, listen more. Also, since you will be playing guitar, you will have no sense of rhythm or tempo and should follow the bass and drums (DON'T RUSH). If your drummer and bass player don't agree, one of them is wrong. Ask the sound guy which one is correct and fire the other, or just fire both.

Are you a sound guy or keys? :P

The sound guy's job is to fit you in the mix. But we aren't going to know who is playing correctly when it comes to the music... because that isn't our job. We're just supposed to make the sound coming out of the speakers not be complete poop.

Your advice is okay (for not being really about how to play), but I have no intentions of making a career of this. As far as I'm concerned, my major performance instrument is clarinet. If I play anything else publicly, it will be for the audience's amusement, nothing serious.

(btw. I'm not discounting what you said, but some of it is common knowledge to music students- and, sadly, I'm a music student.)

If you really want to be a good guitar player and not a poseur-chump like most guitar players:

1) Learn the "theory" as you learn your left hand. Don't play a single note without knowing what it is, and don't play a chord without knowing what all the notes are, and their spot in the harmonic structure. I have personally known very few guitar players who know this stuff, so you'll probably have to get advice from a bass or keys player like myself.

2) Position your guitar at the correct height and not down in phallus-compensator land. Learn correct pick technique. I know nothing about correct pick technique, but as near as I can figure it's about equal to the golf swing on the esoteric/unnaturalness scale - you have to practice it correctly to learn it.

3) Maintain your guitar well - neck straight, strings younger than your pet rat, action height appropriate, and tune when it goes out even slightly.

4) Turn down. You're too loud. Your lows are too boomy, your highs to piercing, and you have no idea what you sound like out in the mix out in the house. Play less, listen more. Also, since you will be playing guitar, you will have no sense of rhythm or tempo and should follow the bass and drums (DON'T RUSH). If your drummer and bass player don't agree, one of them is wrong. Ask the sound guy which one is correct and fire the other, or just fire both.

Basically, don't listen to this guy. There are several reasons...

1: This is all well and good, but to become a better player, you should focus on actually playing the instrument first. It's not good to know where everything is before you actually know what you're doing on the fretboard itself. Familiarise yourself with the guitar and what sounds come from where, then get into the theory side of things. You'll learn that it's much easier (and faster) this way.

2: First of all, where you position your guitar is entirely built around personal preference. Second, don't even talk about pick technique when you even state you know nothing about picks. As for that, there are plenty of free websites that show you proper picking techniques.

3: Well, I really can't say anything here, as he's right. For a change.

4: Playing low is good practice, though it's definitely okay to crank it way the fuck up there once you feel confident enough to do so... As long as you aren't drowning out everyone else. And playing the guitar properly takes an excellent sense of rhythm, so the bullshit about "you'll have no sense of rhythm or tempo" is just that: bullshit. People who can't keep a sense of rhythm or tempo while playing a guitar with or without drums have no business even touching an instrument.


Want some good advice? Aim for the sky. Start out with basic chords and scales, and then head over to barre chords (believe me, they'll be a pain in the ass for a few months). Once you've got them down, start (attempting to) play some complex music from bands like Rush. I say this because doing so will give your fingers an excellent workout, you'll get complex chord patterns and odd voicings burned into your memory, and you'll build speed like you would never have thought possible.

If you start slow and only gradually build your skill, you won't get anywhere anytime soon. But, if you kick your own ass every time you practice, you'll really make strides. And remember, rhythm is more important than lead.

Rhythm is more important than lead. And don't forget to play mostly without overdrive or distortion, as they can be quite forgiving when it comes to mistakes.

Does Guitar Hero count?

Want some good advice? Aim for the sky. Start out with basic chords and scales, and then head over to barre chords (believe me, they'll be a pain in the ass for a few months). Once you've got them down, start (attempting to) play some complex music from bands like Rush. I say this because doing so will give your fingers an excellent workout, you'll get complex chord patterns and odd voicings burned into your memory, and you'll build speed like you would never have thought possible.

If you start slow and only gradually build your skill, you won't get anywhere anytime soon. But, if you kick your own ass every time you practice, you'll really make strides. And remember, rhythm is more important than lead.

Rhythm is more important than lead.

I've ended many practicing many times because I felt like the strings were hitting bone. Seriously, getting chords down (and making chord changes smooth) has been that kind of a challenge for me, so kicking my ass at something new has been good. Though so far my music of choice has been easy Garth Brooks, Beatles, and other stuff I already have recordings of or can grab recordings of easily.

And the thing about guitar players inherently having no rhythm.. yeah, I agree, it's crap. I know too many great guitarists to believe that. But, hey, every instrument has its stereotype.

I've ended many practicing many times because I felt like the strings were hitting bone. Seriously, getting chords down (and making chord changes smooth) has been that kind of a challenge for me, so kicking my ass at something new has been good. Though so far my music of choice has been easy Garth Brooks, Beatles, and other stuff I already have recordings of or can grab recordings of easily.

And the thing about guitar players inherently having no rhythm.. yeah, I agree, it's crap. I know too many great guitarists to believe that. But, hey, every instrument has its stereotype.

Fretting is difficult for anybody who doesn't already have strong, callused fingertips. Don't worry about it, you'll develop them nicely in a few weeks. Just keep at it. As for fast, smooth chord changes... That takes a lot of practice. Again, keep at it, and you'll be fine. However, I recommend you look toward faster, more aggressive forms of music to get your chording technique down. Punk Rock and "Alternative" music is the best place to look. I suggest you look into the Sex Pistols (power chord "zooming", shift slides, and basic open/barre chords), the Ramones (very fast barre chord assaults), and Husker Du (unbelievably fast, uses all manner of chords, but in arrangements that aren't too difficult to play once you get the fretting down).

Practice with those bands, and you should have no problem with fretting.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOm0kLw5SJM
No sense of rhythm and tempo, my ass.

Are you a sound guy or keys? :PUsually bass, sometimes keys, rarely if ever soundguy.

The sound guy's job is to fit you in the mix. But we aren't going to know who is playing correctly when it comes to the music... because that isn't our job. We're just supposed to make the sound coming out of the speakers not be complete poop.I know it's not their job, but sound guys who know what they're doing have listened to a lot of bands, and are listening to your band in more detail than the random audience member. They're a somewhat objective source of information compared to the insulation of a band and its groupies, and it makes them feel less ignored when people ask their opinions.

Your advice is okay (for not being really about how to play), but I have no intentions of making a career of this. As far as I'm concerned, my major performance instrument is clarinet. If I play anything else publicly, it will be for the audience's amusement, nothing serious.

(btw. I'm not discounting what you said, but some of it is common knowledge to music students- and, sadly, I'm a music student.)Have at it then. Already knowing how to play an instrument will help you out a lot anyway.

Basically, don't listen to this guy. There are several reasons...Oh it's on now!

1: This is all well and good, but to become a better player, you should focus on actually playing the instrument first. It's not good to know where everything is before you actually know what you're doing on the fretboard itself. Familiarise yourself with the guitar and what sounds come from where, then get into the theory side of things. You'll learn that it's much easier (and faster) this way.You have a point, but from what I've seen that approach leads to technically proficient players who are poor musicians, and I'd rather have the opposite in my bands. From what I've seen, if technique and music aren't learned hand in hand, then one usually ends up being neglected. If it's necessary to lean one way or the other, It's easier to troubleshoot poor technical habits than it is to troubleshoot musical ones. Also, emphasizing music leads to more fulfilling musical results right away, while emphasizing technique leads maybe to cool noises right away.

2: First of all, where you position your guitar is entirely built around personal preference.This is only true if you intend to limit your playing to techniques that can be executed in any position - i.e. not fast.

Second, don't even talk about pick technique when you even state you know nothing about picks.If you insist. I used to be in a band (http://www.myspace.com/lesserknownsaint) with some guys who knew a little about it.

4: Playing low is good practice, though it's definitely okay to crank it way the fuck up there once you feel confident enough to do so... As long as you aren't drowning out everyone else.Playing low is fine, I'm complaining about those guitar players who like to turn the "bass" knob to 11. So is playing loud when you're in a loud band. As for "as long as you aren't drowning out everyone else"; well, with that attitude you probably are. If the drums, bass keys, or vocals turned way up "without drowning everybody else out" it would sound like shit too. But most of us don't do that.

And playing the guitar properly takes an excellent sense of rhythm, so the bullshit about "you'll have no sense of rhythm or tempo" is just that: bullshit. People who can't keep a sense of rhythm or tempo while playing a guitar with or without drums have no business even touching an instrument.I'm just sayin - I haven't played with very many guitar players who have a solid sense of tempo/rhythm - so I'm making an educated guess based on my experience.


Yes, I know I'm stereotyping and I shouldn't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOm0kLw5SJM
No sense of rhythm and tempo, my ass.That didn't sound like a particularly solid performance tempo-wise, but props to the man for playing and singing that at the same time with all those off-beats in the vocals.


P.S. Anybody who has trouble fretting a guitar is either a wuss or is pushing the string down too far. (or is playing a heavy gauge with really high action)

You have a point, but from what I've seen that approach leads to technically proficient players who are poor musicians, and I'd rather have the opposite in my bands. From what I've seen, if technique and music aren't learned hand in hand, then one usually ends up being neglected. If it's necessary to lean one way or the other, It's easier to troubleshoot poor technical habits than it is to troubleshoot musical ones. Also, emphasizing music leads to more fulfilling musical results right away, while emphasizing technique leads maybe to cool noises right away.

This is only true if you intend to limit your playing to techniques that can be executed in any position - i.e. not fast.

If you insist. I used to be in a band (http://www.myspace.com/lesserknownsaint) with some guys who knew a little about it.

Playing low is fine, I'm complaining about those guitar players who like to turn the "bass" knob to 11. So is playing loud when you're in a loud band. As for "as long as you aren't drowning out everyone else"; well, with that attitude you probably are. If the drums, bass keys, or vocals turned way up "without drowning everybody else out" it would sound like shit too. But most of us don't do that.

I'm just sayin - I haven't played with very many guitar players who have a solid sense of tempo/rhythm - so I'm making an educated guess based on my experience.


Yes, I know I'm stereotyping and I shouldn't.

That didn't sound like a particularly solid performance tempo-wise, but props to the man for playing and singing that at the same time with all those off-beats in the vocals.


P.S. Anybody who has trouble fretting a guitar is either a wuss or is pushing the string down too far. (or is playing a heavy gauge with really high action)


1: That's true, though I didn't quite mean to play for a really long time before getting into the theory side of things. Playing just long enough to familiarise yourself with the instrument and then getting into theory is best.

2: When I play, I really don't feel much difference when I strap the guitar lower or higher... Then again, I don't give much leeway when I change.

3: Then get them to comment on picks. :p

4: Well if that's the case, I'm with you there 100%. I use a fatter midrange with some treble bite and not too much bass. I also play at moderate volume. But maximum volume depends on the venue you're playing, really. And it's safe to say that most of us won't need multiple 200-watt tube heads with massive stacks of cabinets behind us.

5: It's easy not to generalise... Just don't do it. ;)

As for the tempo thing, he's spot-on there... Unless my metronome is having a bad day.

I know it's not their job, but sound guys who know what they're doing have listened to a lot of bands, and are listening to your band in more detail than the random audience member. They're a somewhat objective source of information compared to the insulation of a band and its groupies, and it makes them feel less ignored when people ask their opinions.

...

Playing low is fine, I'm complaining about those guitar players who like to turn the "bass" knob to 11. So is playing loud when you're in a loud band. As for "as long as you aren't drowning out everyone else"; well, with that attitude you probably are. If the drums, bass keys, or vocals turned way up "without drowning everybody else out" it would sound like shit too. But most of us don't do that.

I'm just sayin - I haven't played with very many guitar players who have a solid sense of tempo/rhythm - so I'm making an educated guess based on my experience.

But what you're talking about the sound guy doing is paying attention to a musical detail that, honestly, has nothing to do with what he's there for. (Why am I using male pronouns? I want that to be MY job, dammit!) Plus, we're not children. We give out our opinions. We just don't give them to the band because usually they're about the band.

If your guitarist is turning up the bass that loud, then he's an amateur that should get off the stage. And the "don't drown everyone out" attitude really.. isn't that bad. If you're keeping it so other parts can be heard, does it matter? It's all being loud within reason.

And if the guitarists you've played with don't have a sense of time or rhythm, you really need to up your standards. Most half-ass guitar players are at least decently good at rhythm. (I'd expect a bassist to have higher standards. Most bassists I know are anal retentive about musicianship and are really good at that sort of thing themselves anyway.)

But what you're talking about the sound guy doing is paying attention to a musical detail that, honestly, has nothing to do with what he's there for.Well, it's not what he's paid for, but I would say that it's part of what he's there for - your average sound person isn't in it for the money.

(Why am I using male pronouns? I want that to be MY job, dammit!)What, female soundman? Does not compute... mullets don't belong on women...

Plus, we're not children. We give out our opinions. We just don't give them to the band because usually they're about the band.You're right. If one is in the band, one does have to use a heavy dose of charisma to crack through the defenses of the sound person and establish a halfway honest rapport.

If your guitarist is turning up the bass that loud, then he's an amateur that should get off the stage.This is like every metal or hardcore guitarist in the Midwest, or was for a time. It's a little sad, but I guess I'm only net money worth my time when I'm playing jazz, so that puts me squarely into the amateur leagues in other genres.

And the "don't drown everyone out" attitude really.. isn't that bad. If you're keeping it so other parts can be heard, does it matter? It's all being loud within reason.Too often it's used as a justification or an excuse. "Yeah, but it's not like I'm drowning you out or anything." I suppose it's better than the "The bass guitar is meant to be felt more than heard."

And if the guitarists you've played with don't have a sense of time or rhythm, you really need to up your standards.I would have, but then I moved to a small town of 30,000 where I know nobody.

Most half-ass guitar players are at least decently good at rhythm. (I'd expect a bassist to have higher standards. Most bassists I know are anal retentive about musicianship and are really good at that sort of thing themselves anyway.)Yes, we are totally anal. Sorry about that. The problem isn't so much that some guitar players have poor rhythm, but that they have poor rhythm and think that they don't, and then try to lead the band when it's usually (depending on the style) the drummer's job to define the drive and the bass's job to define the pocket, and the guitarists job to engage around those parameters. I know in metal with unison lines you have to work with the guitars with the pocket thing, which is cool, but if the guitar's rushing ahead of the drummer amateurishly, there's nothing to be done. The groove's goose is cooked. They'll only appreciate you in Japan.

Well, it's not what he's paid for, but I would say that it's part of what he's there for - your average sound person isn't in it for the money.

What are you talking about? I'm totally in this for the paycheck. /sarcasm

What, female soundman? Does not compute... mullets don't belong on women...

Hey, here in civilization we don't let our engineers have mullets. (The last of my professors that had one has gotten rid of his. Yay.)

You're right. If one is in the band, one does have to use a heavy dose of charisma to crack through the defenses of the sound person and establish a halfway honest rapport.

This is sadly because the amount of mediocre guys with big egos who think they can play outnumbers real musicians. Or, well. That's my friends' excuses.

Too often it's used as a justification or an excuse. "Yeah, but it's not like I'm drowning you out or anything." I suppose it's better than the "The bass guitar is meant to be felt more than heard."

Not musicians. I had to explain what balance means to musicians to a class of engineers (who just assume that it means "everything is level"), and I suddenly got why some guitar players have NO CLUE when a solo is appropriate.

Yes, we are totally anal. Sorry about that. The problem isn't so much that some guitar players have poor rhythm, but that they have poor rhythm and think that they don't, and then try to lead the band when it's usually (depending on the style) the drummer's job to define the drive and the bass's job to define the pocket, and the guitarists job to engage around those parameters. I know in metal with unison lines you have to work with the guitars with the pocket thing, which is cool, but if the guitar's rushing ahead of the drummer amateurishly, there's nothing to be done. The groove's goose is cooked. They'll only appreciate you in Japan.

The anal retentiveness isn't bad... well.. most of the time it isn't. But all members of a band should understand songs are built bottom-up, and that's how you should follow. I mean, it's common sense to me. Therefore it should be to everyone else. *nod*

And man I haven't seen Spinal Tap in over a year. But I swear we reference it in almost every recording class I've had.

This is sadly because the amount of mediocre guys with big egos who think they can play outnumbers real musicians.An understatement.