NationStates Jolt Archive

So I was having a conversation with a couple of friends from the US. They didn't really realise that the US elections were a big deal here in the UK and said they didn't realise that the US had so much power globally.

So is this the norm in the US. Does the average Joe in the US believe that the US doesn't have so much power globally. If yes, why?

So is this the norm in the US.


Yes.


Does the average Joe in the US believe that the US doesn't have so much power globally. If yes, why?


Because the United States has spanned an entire continent, bordered by two vast oceans, for most of its history. Thus, to cross an international border, or encounter other people who have done so, is a relatively special occasion. Compare to Europe, which consists of many different countries and cultures occupying a smaller land mass.

I think that the average American doesn't have the same global perspective as others around the world simply because such a perspective isn't really necessary in the course of the vast majority of average Americans' personal lives.

The last time international borders were a major part of Americans' lives was over 200 years ago, and a soon-to-be-written Constitution quickly put that to rest. Europe is currently undergoing the same process (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union), so I predict that in a couple of centuries the average European will be completely clueless about life in the outside world as well.

Yes.



Because the United States has spanned an entire continent, bordered by two vast oceans, for most of its history. Thus, to cross an international border, or encounter other people who have done so, is a relatively special occasion. Compare to Europe, which consists of many different countries and cultures occupying a smaller land mass.

I think that the average American doesn't have the same global perspective as others around the world simply because such a perspective isn't really necessary in the course of the vast majority of average Americans' personal lives.

The last time international borders were a major part of Americans' lives was over 200 years ago, and a soon-to-be-written Constitution quickly put that to rest. Europe is currently undergoing the same process (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union), so I predict that in a couple of centuries the average European will be completely clueless about life in the outside world as well.

well said

As a U.S. citizen, I can truthfully answer:

Yes

In fact, most Americans of any noticeable intelligence that I know do. But many are apathetic, rather than ignorant.

well said

I would add that nothing I've said is an excuse for Americans, especially in the day and age of global communications via television or the Internet. My own RSS news feed software is set up to collect news wire sources from all over the world. Even NSG provides me with international perspective.

Americans should be more involved in world affairs and opinion, especially if they insist on doing things outside of their own personal lives in the international sphere, like having a military and marching it all over the place for whatever ill-conceived purpose.

Not to mention our culture, which (from my point of view) tends to encourage a "don't-know-don't-care" attitude. It can be hard to find someone who has, at the very least, a concept of what is going on globally.

From http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/11/1126_021120_TVGeoRoperSurvey.html-

The National Geographic–Roper 2002 Global Geographic Literacy Survey polled more than 3,000 18- to 24-year-olds in Canada, France, Germany, Great Britain, Italy, Japan, Mexico, Sweden and the United States.

Sweden scored highest; Mexico, lowest. The U.S. was next to last.

"The survey demonstrates the geographic illiteracy of the United States," said Robert Pastor, professor of International Relations at American University, in Washington, D.C. "The results are particularly appalling in light of September 11, which traumatized America and revealed that our destiny is connected to the rest of the world."

About 11 percent of young citizens of the U.S. couldn't even locate the U.S. on a map. The Pacific Ocean's location was a mystery to 29 percent; Japan, to 58 percent; France, to 65 percent; and the United Kingdom, to 69 percent.

It goes on, and gets worse.

If by understanding how awesome we are, and seeing how every country wants to be like us (get the pun? har har pretty clever of me and my AMERICAN wit), then yes, I do know how much our government and culture has an effect on others.

The relative isolation of the Americas from the rest of the world has given the average American a relative apathy to world events, along with a sense of invulnerability that has only been seriously shaken twice, December 7th and 9/11. And even after that that sense is rebuilding with the "We have not been attacked since 9/11" hoo-ha.

Yes.



Because the United States has spanned an entire continent, bordered by two vast oceans, for most of its history. Thus, to cross an international border, or encounter other people who have done so, is a relatively special occasion. Compare to Europe, which consists of many different countries and cultures occupying a smaller land mass.

I think that the average American doesn't have the same global perspective as others around the world simply because such a perspective isn't really necessary in the course of the vast majority of average Americans' personal lives.

The last time international borders were a major part of Americans' lives was over 200 years ago, and a soon-to-be-written Constitution quickly put that to rest. Europe is currently undergoing the same process (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union), so I predict that in a couple of centuries the average European will be completely clueless about life in the outside world as well.

Yeah, like, don't they teach you people a little geography at primary school? or in highschool? something about the cold war? and that as of today the US is the only extant superpower? or sumthin'?

In general, Americans just aren't affected much by overseas events and activities. As more and more outside events touch the lives of the average American, their ignorance of the greater world does diminish.

Thus, Americans who have served in the military, and particularly those who have been posted overseas, become more cosmopolitan. Likewise those involved in various forms of international trade. And as the oil situation fluctuates, more are becoming knowledgable about the Mideast and other areas that supply oil.

But there is no culture of interest in the doings of others in the US, as I have observed in most other nations. If the US doesn't seem to care about an issue, such as Darfur or the Rwandan Genocide, then chances are, that is literally true - the US simply does not care.

Thus, Americans who have served in the military, and particularly those who have been posted overseas, become more cosmopolitan.
I'm not too sure about that, my experiences with US service members over here is that the US military tends to try its level best to bring America with them when it sends them overseas.

In answer to the question, yes, most Americans are indeed like that. Every time I go home, or talk to friends and family at home, it shocks me just how ignorant of world events or American position within them that they are. Japan's news has almost nightly coverage of the US election with commentators babbling on afterwards about what it all means and what it might mean for Japan should X candidate be elected.

When was the last time that news of Japanese elections was carried in the US, even though as a close ally and world's second largest economy, you'd think that would be very important?

So I was having a conversation with a couple of friends from the US. They didn't really realise that the US elections were a big deal here in the UK and said they didn't realise that the US had so much power globally.

So is this the norm in the US. Does the average Joe in the US believe that the US doesn't have so much power globally. If yes, why?


It's that not THAT huge. Me and one of my mates at uni loosely follow it but the rest couldn't give a damn. Nothing major overseas tbh.

If by understanding how awesome we are, and seeing how every country wants to be like us (get the pun? har har pretty clever of me and my AMERICAN wit), then yes, I do know how much our government and culture has an effect on others.

I know, have you been to Japan lately? Everybody in Japan wants to be an American it seems.

I'm not too sure about that, my experiences with US service members over here is that the US military tends to try its level best to bring America with them when it sends them overseas.



That's true, but you cannot help but be exposed to outside culture and society when you are surrounded by it. Military service may not make the average American as knowledgable about other nations as most people here seem to be, but it does broaden the mind.

I would add that nothing I've said is an excuse for Americans, especially in the day and age of global communications via television or the Internet. My own RSS news feed software is set up to collect news wire sources from all over the world. Even NSG provides me with international perspective.

Americans should be more involved in world affairs and opinion, especially if they insist on doing things outside of their own personal lives in the international sphere, like having a military and marching it all over the place for whatever ill-conceived purpose.

agreed.

However, the fault isn't just with Americans. After all, take this forum. it's physically located in England, we have people from Ireland, Germany, Japan and other areas posting on it, yet the majority of the discussion is about the US and their politics.

Sure I don't take part on threads where someone is moaning about Canada's PM, or the latest travesty that passed Australia's House... but I do read them to glean an insight into my neighbors. yet the majority of the threads here are US Centric.

When was the last time that news of Japanese elections was carried in the US, even though as a close ally and world's second largest economy, you'd think that would be very important?

and that is really, really sad. I would rather listen about politics in other countries than another story about Danilynn, Anna Nichole Smith or whatever Britney Spears is doing now. :(

I notice that many of my "peers" are geographically ignorant. I know that the U.S. is very involved in world affairs, and I know enough to think that this is becoming a bad thing for us and the world.

Europe is currently undergoing the same process[/URL], so I predict that in a couple of centuries the average European will be completely clueless about life in the outside world as well.
I'm betting on 50-100 years.

As a Californian, and if you call us Liberals, I'll remind you that we voted against Bush, twice, unlike say Texas, who first elected Bush to governorship and then presidency. Anyways as a Californian, I will say that American education system blows. To get an idea of how bad American Education (K-12) and certain community colleges, but the UC System rocks, anyways here's the fruits of our (K-12) edukashun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaN6Rx8X6_I

Yes, 1/5 Americans believe that the Sun orbits the Earth.

As a Californian, and if you call us Liberals, I'll remind you that we voted against Bush, twice, unlike say Texas, who first elected Bush to governorship and then presidency. Anyways as a Californian, I will say that American education system blows. To get an idea of how bad American Education (K-12) and certain community colleges, but the UC System rocks, anyways here's the fruits of our (K-12) edukashun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaN6Rx8X6_I

Yes, 1/5 Americans believe that the Sun orbits the Earth.

agreed.

However, the fault isn't just with Americans. After all, take this forum. it's physically located in England, we have people from Ireland, Germany, Japan and other areas posting on it, yet the majority of the discussion is about the US and their politics.

Sure I don't take part on threads where someone is moaning about Canada's PM, or the latest travesty that passed Australia's House... but I do read them to glean an insight into my neighbors. yet the majority of the threads here are US Centric.
It's to be expected that most threads about a particular country would be about the US. While British politics affect the Britons, Japanese elections affect the Japanese, and German laws affect the Germans, everyone is affected, at least a little, by American politics. It's kind of the greatest common factor.

So I was having a conversation with a couple of friends from the US. They didn't really realise that the US elections were a big deal here in the UK and said they didn't realise that the US had so much power globally.

So is this the norm in the US. Does the average Joe in the US believe that the US doesn't have so much power globally. If yes, why?

Yes. If a presidential candidate running in part on her foreign policy experience doesn't know shite about what's going on in Pakistan - enough to make this sort of gaffe (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/01/02/biden-highlights-clinton-pakistan-gaffe/), why would anyone expect the average US citizen to know any more? As a US expatriate, I must say my country embarasses me at times...

I'm surprised, actually. If anything, I'd have thought US citizens would have an overinflated view of their global influence.

I'm surprised, actually. If anything, I'd have thought US citizens would have an overinflated view of their global influence.

That would be summarized by three words:

"America, FUCK YEAH!!"

I'm surprised, actually. If anything, I'd have thought US citizens would have an overinflated view of their global influence.

This would assume that the average US citizen actually thinks about what goes on outside the borders of the country...

Yes, 1/5 Americans believe that the Sun orbits the Earth.
Correction, 1/5 Americans believe that the universe orbits America.

About 11 percent of young citizens of the U.S. couldn't even locate the U.S. on a map. The Pacific Ocean's location was a mystery to 29 percent; Japan, to 58 percent; France, to 65 percent; and the United Kingdom, to 69 percent.

While it is appalling, it's not just U.S. citizens who are ridiculously ignorant. A recent article from the UK said that a quarter of Brits surveyed believe Churchill was a myth, and 58% believed Sherlock Holmes was real.

It's to be expected that most threads about a particular country would be about the US. While British politics affect the Britons, Japanese elections affect the Japanese, and German laws affect the Germans, everyone is affected, at least a little, by American politics. It's kind of the greatest common factor.

That is true, and we have to be mindful of it. Where it starts to annoy me is when some of my Canadian friends (especially after the last Presidential election) start chewing me out about my country and how it's screwing up the rest of the world. Just because I'm American doesn't mean I'm responsible for all the shit that's going on--I voted for the other guy. And the government's actions have a pretty big impact in the country, too, especially if you're not one of the conservative sheep.

as opposed to the UK where the population seems to still believe that we still represent a quarter of the planets population :p

Correction, 1/5 Americans believe that the universe orbits America.
wouldn't that rather be 4/5 ?

I'm betting on 50-100 years.I don't think so. Europeans do not have that nationalism/patriotism thing that keeps them ignoring everything beyond their own borders. US-Americans think they are the peak of human development, and their pride even exceeds their greed.

I'm surprised, actually. If anything, I'd have thought US citizens would have an overinflated view of their global influence.
That. I'd say if anything we overstate our influence. Especially as countries turn away from us and look to other resources. As China and India emerge as consumers and other nations as producers we become less and less relevant. Add to that the burden of our extravagances like the Iraq war and cowboy diplomacy and our influence begins to diminish. But I would say on average we overstate our importance, to paraphrase a song from my brother's band-'We're in the center, you revolve around us.'
as opposed to the UK where the population seems to still believe that we still represent a quarter of the planets population :p
Sun never sets, baby!

I don't think so. Europeans do not have that nationalism/patriotism thing that keeps them ignoring everything beyond their own borders. US-Americans think they are the peak of human development, and their pride even exceeds their greed.
Maybe in 1950 that view held more weight, but certainly not in America today.

I don't think so. Europeans do not have that nationalism/patriotism thing that keeps them ignoring everything beyond their own borders. US-Americans think they are the peak of human development, and their pride even exceeds their greed.

Jealous, much?

;)

Edit:

two rap videos will illustrate my response:

How we view ourselves:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD8tJvvCiv8

What the rest of the world can do:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSh_Oc78A4o

haha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD8tJvvCiv8
This song is awesome because the chorus is a celebration of tautology. I think Rap might be the only genre in which that can be done.

Some interesting points being posted here.

After all the major events that have affected the US do you believe that the averagecitizen should start to gain at least a basic understanding of other cultures and the US relation to them?

I do as I believe every citizen of every country should gain some basic understanding of how theirnation interatcs with others and such.

This song is awesome because the chorus is a celebration of tautology. I think Rap might be the only genre in which that can be done.

Haha, yeah. It just might be. What'd you think of the other song? Or of the songs in context of how I used them?

I have realized the dramatic effect that elections within the USA has on the rest of the world for years.. since about the time I reached the age to vote. Just as I beleive the elections in nations like Britain and Russia have an effect on us. Choices that our leaders make have impacts on the whole world.. global economy, the envireonment, etc.

Time to break out the old CNNN vox pop clip.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp6_oFSh_ss)

Yes, I'm aware that it's editing for comedic effect, the fact that that handful of people is like that is still worrying enough.

Time to break out the old CNNN vox pop clip.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp6_oFSh_ss)

Yes, I'm aware that it's editing for comedic effect, the fact that that handful of people is like that is still worrying enough.

Oh wow! They found a few unintelligent (or very nervous) people out of a country of 300 million! Astounding!! :rolleyes:

Besides, we're America! Fuck yeah! And since we're America:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMzoBkaFxh4

and, why worry about some dumb people when we can:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cj63G4MZpms


lulz

Oh wow! They found a few unintelligent (or very nervous) people out of a country of 300 million! Astounding!! :rolleyes:

It's not surprising, but especially near the end it's extremely worrying.

Would it make you feel better if I posted a clip of stupid Australians (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaQJj1BQUiU) (same team too). That rubber stamp would have been useful throughout that previous video too, especially the guy who thought a triangle has four sides.

Besides, we're America! Fuck yeah! And since we're America:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMzoBkaFxh4

pfft more like:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=I3ILUic7aN0

pfft more like:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=I3ILUic7aN0

Wow, she is hard to understand, but, I agree with sentiment of the song- we don't give a damn what the world thinks of us (to a point). We'll keep on keepin on.

She doesn't have shit on MC Hammer.

Wow, she is hard to understand

then you can't understand English good sir :p

She doesn't have shit on MC Hammer.

well its the whole grime genre thing sadly (http://youtube.com/watch?v=KTS6INVmZGI&feature=related)

Jealous, much?No, since the US pride in itself is not justified.

Usually, what happens in other countries has NO bearing on daily life here. People know about 911 and we know that our oil comes from those terrorist supporting Mooslim nations, but otherwise, we don't need to know anything.

Yes, if someone is interested in the rest of the world, they can look on the Internet, but the average American is busy working 60+ hours a week, trying to almost-pay for their food, mortgage/rent, and provide for their 2 1/2 kids. They don't have the time or the energy to research anything that isn't shoved in their faces by tabloid-TV.

Time to break out the old CNNN vox pop clip.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp6_oFSh_ss)

Yes, I'm aware that it's editing for comedic effect, the fact that that handful of people is like that is still worrying enough.every one of those retards should be put on death row :rolleyes: how does the US ever grow such folks without any brains at all?

Usually, what happens in other countries has NO bearing on daily life here. People know about 911 and we know that our oil comes from those terrorist supporting Mooslim nations, but otherwise, we don't need to know anything.

Yes, if someone is interested in the rest of the world, they can look on the Internet, but the average American is busy working 60+ hours a week, trying to almost-pay for their food, mortgage/rent, and provide for their 2 1/2 kids. They don't have the time or the energy to research anything that isn't shoved in their faces by tabloid-TV.I don't want a nuclear arsenal under control of such a retarded people.

People know about 911 and we know that our oil comes from those terrorist supporting Mooslim nations, but otherwise, we don't need to know anything.
Most of our oil comes from our friendly neighbor to the north, the 51st state, Canada, actually. In fact, very little of our oil comes from any Middle East states except for Saudi Arabia.

And it's Muslim, by the way.

I want to cry now.. its so obvious that Utah is a member of the Axis of Evil, Kyrgastan is a threat to national security, Iran and NOrth Korea are both located in Australia, Isreali's are Islamic, and the West Bank is located in New York to these people that it makes me want to go on a shooting spree!

Where DO we get this fucking idiots.

I would add that nothing I've said is an excuse for Americans, especially in the day and age of global communications via television or the Internet. My own RSS news feed software is set up to collect news wire sources from all over the world. Even NSG provides me with international perspective.

Americans should be more involved in world affairs and opinion, especially if they insist on doing things outside of their own personal lives in the international sphere, like having a military and marching it all over the place for whatever ill-conceived purpose.

So you mean I can't control my own battalion and send it over to your place for beer and pizza anymore?

Damn.

As a Californian, and if you call us Liberals, I'll remind you that we voted against Bush, twice, unlike say Texas, who first elected Bush to governorship and then presidency. Anyways as a Californian, I will say that American education system blows. To get an idea of how bad American Education (K-12) and certain community colleges, but the UC System rocks, anyways here's the fruits of our (K-12) edukashun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaN6Rx8X6_I

Yes, 1/5 Americans believe that the Sun orbits the Earth.

Source it.

I think a lot of the interest in the U.S elections in, say, the UK isn't as much of a reflection of America's political dominance as it is a reflection of America's cultural dominance.

I don't want a nuclear arsenal under control of such a retarded people.

You can stop flamebaiting now. Really.

You can stop flamebaiting now. Really.That's not flamebaiting, that's the expression of concern. If the demos is uneducated enough they will possibly vote someone into office who will take advantage of this general stupidity. And a nuclear arsenal in the hands of an ambitious US government ruling over a braindead people will be a threat yet unexperienced by humankind. Even now the US is driving war into foreign countries.
It seems the US is now where Germany was in the 1920s.

(I admit surprise at the close following our elections have received abroad, however; it's very early yet, and I assumed most wouldn't bother tuning in regularly till the summer or fall.)It's got more to do with the fact that there's a very real chance for either the first black or first female US president being elected.

Anecdotal "evidence" aside, Americans are largely aware of their impact on the world. They do know we are the world's only remaining superpower, they do know we are leading the war on terror, many are angry about the war in Iraq, and it is a big issue in every election campaign. U.S. foreign policy is just as controversial on the home front as it is in [insert nation here]. Although that may not mesh well with the popular caricature of Americans as dumb hicks, which I imagine is rather comforting to those with a simple world view (see above).

(I admit surprise at the close following our elections have received abroad, however; it's very early yet, and I assumed most wouldn't bother tuning in regularly till the summer or fall.)

It's got more to do with the fact that there's a very real chance for either the first black or first female US president being elected.Ah. Gotcha. Didn't really think it was McCain or Huckabee putting butts in the seats.

That's not flamebaiting, that's the expression of concern. If the demos is uneducated enough they will possibly vote someone into office who will take advantage of this general stupidity. And a nuclear arsenal in the hands of an ambitious US government ruling over a braindead people will be a threat yet unexperienced by humankind. Even now the US is driving war into foreign countries.
It seems the US is now where Germany was in the 1920s.

Have you actually been to the US? Have you met 'brain dead' Americans? I haven't, and I live in the US. I've met plenty of people who don' know about foreign affairs, but there's no need for them to know, as they are not affected by it.

So, if you haven't been to the US, I'm calling your assertion BS.

And, for good measure, this song sums up your knowledge on the subject:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D61mqcicqp8

HI've met plenty of people who don' know about foreign affairs, but there's no need for them to know, as they are not affected by it.Your arrogance blinds you, Master Trollgaard.

That's not flamebaiting, that's the expression of concern. If the demos is uneducated enough they will possibly vote someone into office who will take advantage of this general stupidity. And a nuclear arsenal in the hands of an ambitious US government ruling over a braindead people will be a threat yet unexperienced by humankind. Even now the US is driving war into foreign countries.
It seems the US is now where Germany was in the 1920s.

Coming from someone who wholeheartedly endorses African Colonial Rule, that bolded part strikes me as a tad hypocritical.

im a us citizen, i watch bbc world news, i know we're important (the whole blowing up iraq thing was also a tipoff). on the other hand, im not normal as i play this one game that sims politics on a national scale........

Your arrogance blinds you, Master Trollgaard.
I should have said not affected much, or not obviously affected.

But, like I said. I've met no brain dead people. Everyone thinks about something, and puts their energies towards something- be it learning, fucking, sports, hobbies, drugs, or anything. The people who always think about drugs are probably the closest to brain dead I've met, however.

So I was having a conversation with a couple of friends from the US. They didn't really realise that the US elections were a big deal here in the UK and said they didn't realise that the US had so much power globally.

So is this the norm in the US. Does the average Joe in the US believe that the US doesn't have so much power globally. If yes, why?

The norm? Yes.

The average Joe doesn't know jack shit about US Imperialism.

Fortunately, I'm not the average Joe and realize that US Imperialism is fucking disgusting and will have none of it.

A good majority of our "most important issues" that people answer on polls are from our interventions in foreign countries and other stupid acts of pointless Imperialism.

Ron Paul '08 ya'll.

So is this the norm in the US.

It goes back and forth. Either they overestimate the US's role in the world, or they think they have none. It depends.