NationStates Jolt Archive

I've gone back on my word and I'm sorry. This is an effort to contain any comments on tonights debate to a single thread instead of having to chase them throughout the 4-5 active threads on the subject, plus provide a live comment section for anyone who is watching.

I'll bump this once or twice, but if it doesn't work, I'll let it die.

So, load up and fire away, the peanut gallery is open and here come the candidates...

What is that, color commentators? Is this a golf match?

"Stay on point"...good luck with that.

Obama's already taking notes?

EDIT: Ah, it's shout out time already.

EDIT II: Obama's mic is too close to his shirt and it's rubbing. And the first salvo goes to Obama! "The war that shouldn't have been authorized..."

I expect some hard hitting by Clinton. This actually might be worth watching.

On CNN...starts 8:00 PM Eastern Standard Time.

Comments....

This is it for Hillary. She needs to fight now like a cornered snake. Or a wounded bear. Or an angry goat. She needs to take the gloves off, bar no holds and let the feathers fly.

I dont know if Ill be watching it.


The closer she gets to losing, the less I can stand listening to Hillary. Shes starting to fall apart IMO.

They both just adressed immigration.

Clinton JUST started getting fiesty....

Okay, fine, your thread wins. See if I care. bastards, I was first...

Up until this point I thought they were going to hug.

Not that I'm complaining...oh, now it's ugly.

"Change you can Xerox"...

I like me some peanuts and am glad that there is an entire gallery for it.

I am just waiting for the SNL skit in about 2 weeks of Hillary Clinton rocking back and forth in the corner of a padded room saying, "How could it have happened? I was supposed to win..." Cue the guards saying, "Come now, its time for you medication."

Okay, fine, your thread wins. See if I care. bastards, I was first...

Up until this point I thought they were going to hug.

Not that I'm complaining...oh, now it's ugly.

"Change you can Xerox"...

I thought that was such a non-issue! The guy is working with Obama and supplied Obama with ideas...Obama'd be stupid NOT to use them....:confused:

The bitch is just looooooooking for "faults" to exploit, whether they exist or not.:rolleyes:

Oh, and my thread wins.

This is it for Hillary. She needs to fight now like a cornered snake. Or a wounded bear. Or an angry goat. She needs to take the gloves off, bar no holds and let the feathers fly.
Never before have I been so confused by such a concise series of idioms. Congrats!

We're drinking Bacardi 151 (it's 75% alcohol...not proof...percent) just to get through these two leftists blabbering....

You're spelling and grammar is still okay. You obviously need to have more;)

I
Oh, and my thread wins.

But I win the merge war! Ha!

Sniping on delegates!

We're drinking Bacardi 151 (it's 75% alcohol...not proof...percent) just to get through these two leftists blabbering....

Theoretically, you could switch channels.
But I suppose that wouldn't be half as fun or intoxicating.

We're drinking Bacardi 151 (it's 75% alcohol...not proof...percent) just to get through these two leftists blabbering....

This debate was a gentle hug except for some snip about speech contents...

She rightfully got booed for that. He explained his position very well on that and she is going to regret making that statement. Hillary did not do enough to win tonight. Even with her last statement which received a standing ovation, she still got the lesser of this debate.

She's already getting hammered for it and the debate's only been over for like 10 minutes.

Love the merge!

I was going to ask for it initially but then I was the only one in my thread so I thought, "Meh, fuck it, let mine die." But someone else wasn't content with that, so my failed thread lives again!

Okay, fine, your thread wins. See if I care. bastards, I was first...

Up until this point I thought they were going to hug.

Not that I'm complaining...oh, now it's ugly.

"Change you can Xerox"...

She rightfully got booed for that. He explained his position very well on that and she is going to regret making that statement. Hillary did not do enough to win tonight. Even with her last statement which received a standing ovation, she still got the lesser of this debate.

I thought that was such a non-issue! The guy is working with Obama and supplied Obama with ideas...Obama'd be stupid NOT to use them....:confused:

The bitch is just looooooooking for "faults" to exploit, whether they exist or not.:rolleyes:

Oh, and my thread wins.

Love the merge!

For me the most important debate moments were the booing at the xerox comment, the handing out of peanuts & the thread merge.

Great Debate!

It's going to be the big mis-step of the debate.

The health care and Cuba thing were where the big differences came in, the rest was a warm hug.

I like that, even though it was kind of boring, because it's civil discourse and when they weren't civil (Xerox), the crowd no likey.

For me the most important debate moments were the booing at the xerox comment, the handing out of peanuts & the thread merge.

Great Debate!

Theoretically, you could switch channels.
But I suppose that wouldn't be half as fun or intoxicating.

What a boring solution. :p

*is drunk*:p:p:p

We're drinking Bacardi 151 (it's 75% alcohol...not proof...percent) just to get through these two leftists blabbering....

Is that strong enough? ;)

Hello i was a rehersal last night and missed the CNN debate between hillary clinton and Barrack Obama while i doudt there was anything startling or new to the debate. I would like to know who won or at least who you guys think won.

let me know who you think it is

Hello i was a rehersal last night and missed the CNN debate between hillary clinton and Barrack Obama while i doudt there was anything startling or new to the debate.
It was amazing!

Clinton revealed she's actually just Bill in a dress, while Barack Obama declared his allegience with al-Qaeda and the Illuminati.

You should have payed attention.

It was amazing!

Clinton revealed she's actually just Bill in a dress, while Barack Obama declared his allegience with al-Qaeda and the Illuminati.

You should have payed attention.

tell me what the illuminati do again? is it something like take over the world?
Good to know they have set a high goal to reach.

Clinton revealed she's actually just Bill in a dress, while Barack Obama declared his allegience with al-Qaeda and the Illuminati.

And McCain revealed his amazing powers of teleportation.

And McCain revealed his amazing powers of teleportation.

Where to?
Can he go back in time?

It was crazy!

The Cloverfield monster and Godzilla battled!


*didn't see Debates*

No, no, no. The Illuminati already control the world, they control it rationally and pit its people against one another in these fanciful little "cultural conflicts". Of course, they also make sure that they don't go all the way and destroy this profitable relationship with a massive nuclear war or any other such nonsense.

The public front the Illuminati is the Freemason's, and you know how sinister those guys are.

That's what they want you to think! The Illuminati is just a cover, the real leaders are the Shriners!

tell me what the illuminati do again? is it something like take over the world?
Good to know they have set a high goal to reach.

No, no, no. The Illuminati already control the world, they control it rationally and pit its people against one another in these fanciful little "cultural conflicts". Of course, they also make sure that they don't go all the way and destroy this profitable relationship with a massive nuclear war or any other such nonsense.

The public front the Illuminati is the Freemason's, and you know how sinister those guys are.

No, no, no. The Illuminati already control the world, they control it rationally and pit its people against one another in these fanciful little "cultural conflicts". Of course, they also make sure that they don't go all the way and destroy this profitable relationship with a massive nuclear war or any other such nonsense.

CONSPIRACY!!!

No, no, no. The Illuminati already control the world, they control it rationally and pit its people against one another in these fanciful little "cultural conflicts". Of course, they also make sure that they don't go all the way and destroy this profitable relationship with a massive nuclear war or any other such nonsense.

The public front the Illuminati is the Freemason's, and you know how sinister those guys are.

How do they control a world rationally, and pit people into conflict?
Assuming that the illuminati make lots of money from this, what do they spend it on?
And who the hell thought of these guys?

It was crazy!

The Cloverfield monster and Godzilla battled!


*didn't see Debates*

Clearly. Anyone who watched the debates would have realised that Godzilla and the Cloverfield monster were mating.

Clearly. Anyone who watched the debates would have realised that Godzilla and the Cloverfield monster were mating.

Well, with them the two acts are indistinguishable...

Nobody even mentioned that Don King was the moderator.

Nobody even mentioned that Don King was the moderator.

We blocked it out.

Well, with them the two acts are indistinguishable...

True, it was rather........rough. I do hope they're not biologically compatible, cos their kids would be uuuuuugly

That's what they want you to think! The Illuminati is just a cover, the real leaders are the Shriners!

-10. All Shriners are Freemasons. (But not all Freemasons are Shriners. It has to do with the level of Masonry you've attained.)

This from someone who is eligible for membership in the Order of the Eastern Star. Hopefully that means I'll get to be some minor noble when they complete their take-over.

How do they control a world rationally, and pit people into conflict?

They pit people in conflict to keep humanity divided, to provide for a constant distraction, and to give the illusion that the world is not, actually, united under central Illuminati control.

Assuming that the illuminati make lots of money from this, what do they spend it on?

Websites and stores with innocuous billing names, but less than innocuous purposes. Let's just say you have to click on something that says "I am over x age" to log on.

And who the hell thought of these guys?

People with Schizophrenia.

CONSPIRACY!!!

Da-da-duuuuuuuuuuuuum!

It was amazing!

Clinton revealed she's actually just Bill in a dress, while Barack Obama declared his allegience with al-Qaeda and the Illuminati.

You should have payed attention.

i liked the part where obama turned his head and hillary flicked her reptiloid tongue onto the back of his neck.

i liked the part where obama turned his head and hillary flicked her reptiloid tongue onto the back of his neck.

I have got to see this!

Thanks a lot, NSG! Now I have to go and trawl through the transcript to find out what really happened.

*trawls through transcript*

Uh ... it would appear that your attempts at citizen journalism were, in fact, quite accurate ...

Nevertheless, would someone please give the OP an on-topic answer so I don't have to close this for spam.

Thanks a lot, NSG! Now I have to go and trawl through the transcript to find out what really happened.

*trawls through transcript*

Uh ... it would appear that your attempts at citizen journalism were, in fact, quite accurate ...

Nevertheless, would someone please give the OP an on-topic answer so I don't have to close this for spam.

Aww, but that's no fun.

But a little less spamage, for clips (from the Obama campaign), check here: http://www.youtube.com/user/BarackObamadotcom

Some analyst reports: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/21/debate.analysis/index.html

And a transcript: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0802/21/se.01.html

However, if the OP thinks that it's our job to summarize this stuff for them, I believe they need to stop being so lazy.

Ok, serious answer. These are the little notes I took while going through the transcript (didn't actually see the debate).

- Obama rambles a bit too much on the Cubaa question. He does answer it, but he has a lot of other policy stuff that doesn't really serve to answer the question.

- Clinton seems to be trying too hard to say Texas and Ohio over and over and over again. It's as if she's admitting that they are now all that matters to her.

- On the economy differences question: Obama doesn't say anything about differences until the very end, but at least he gets it in. Clinton doesn't mention differences at all..

- Why can't Clinton ever just admit that something wasn't a good idea? It's always "Oh, it's because Bush did it wrong."

- Funny vision
Clinton: "So, yes, I do think that words are important and words matter, but actions speak louder than words."
Brown: Senator Obama, go ahead
Brown: "Senator Obama, do you want to respond?"
Obama: *nods* *punches Clinton* "There's your action, biatch!"

- Yeah, the "change you can xerox" line was completely unnecessary and out of line.

- Still harping on "leaving people out" by not forcing them. Bleh.

- Um...since when is Social Security mandatory? You don't *have* to take a Social Security check when you retire, do you?

- Clinton: Answer the damn question already! If you're going to go on the attack while campaigning, don't try and gloss over it come debate time. The question was not, "Why are you gonna be a great CiC?" It was "Why do you think you're the only one ready to be one?"

- Answer the question, Claire. Answer the question. The answer to "Do you agree with this assessment" is not "I don't think that'll happen so I'm going to avoid the question." Bleh

- Clinton's last answer still didn't really answer the question, but it was a good sentiment anyways. Obama didn't really answer this one either.

2. Isn't it mandatory to pay in to Social Security, though?

Yes, it is funded by a mandatory tax.

But the mandatory part under Clinton's plan would be getting healthcare, not paying a tax. To use Social Security as a comparison, Clinton would have to support fining retirees who didn't either draw a pension from a private retirement account or take social security.

- Clinton seems to be trying too hard to say Texas and Ohio over and over and over again. It's as if she's admitting that they are now all that matters to her.

...

- Um...since when is Social Security mandatory? You don't *have* to take a Social Security check when you retire, do you?

1. That kinda makes me glad. Even if, policy wise, she is close to Obama, I think I'd just feel more comfortable with him as president.

2. Isn't it mandatory to pay in to Social Security, though?

- Yeah, the "change you can xerox" line was completely unnecessary and out of line.

I actually thought was funny -- and it was prompted by a very specific question on the topic from Cameron Brown.

I thought the audience reaction. They liked the line before "change you can xerox" but didn't really like that line.

For those that didn't see the debate it went as follows (additions in italics are mine regarding the audience.):

BROWN: I think one of the points -- I think one of the points that John King was alluding to in talking about some of Senator Clinton's comments is there has been a lot of attention lately on some of your speeches, that they are very similar to some of the speeches by your friend and supporter Deval Patrick, the governor of Massachusetts, and Senator Clinton's campaign has made a big issue of this. To be blunt, they've accused you of plagiarism.

OBAMA: Right.

BROWN: How do you respond?

OBAMA: Well, look, the -- first of all, it's not a lot of speeches. There are two lines in speeches that I've been giving over the last couple of weeks.
I've been campaigning now for the last two years. Deval is a national co-chairman of my campaign, and suggested an argument that I share, that words are important. Words matter. And the implication that they don't I think diminishes how important it is to speak to the American people directly about making America as good as its promise. Barbara Jordan understood this as well as anybody.

And the notion that I had plagiarized from somebody who was one of my national co-chairs...
(APPLAUSE)
... who gave me the line and suggested that I use it, I think, is silly, and...
(APPLAUSE)
... you know, this is where we start getting into silly season, in politics, and I think people start getting discouraged about it...
(LAUGHTER) ... and they don't want...
(APPLAUSE)
What they want is, how are we going to create good jobs and good wages?
How are we going to provide health care to the American people?
How are we going to make sure that college is affordable?

So what I've been talking about, in this speeches -- and I've got to admit, some of them are pretty good.
(APPLAUSE)

What I've been talking about is not just hope and not just inspiration. It's a $4,000 tuition credit for every student, every year, in exchange for national service...
(APPLAUSE)
... so that college becomes more affordable.

I've been talking about making sure that we change our tax code so that working families actually get relief. I have been talking about making sure that we bring an end to this war in Iraq so that we can start bringing our troops home and invest money here in the United States.
(APPLAUSE)
So just to finish up, these are very specific, concrete, detailed proposals, many of them which I have been working on for years now. Senator Clinton has a fine record. So do I. I'm happy to have a debate on the issues, but what we shouldn't be spending time doing is tearing each other down. We should be spending time lifting the country up.
(APPLAUSE)

BROWN: Senator Clinton, is it the silly season?

CLINTON: Well, I think that if your candidacy is going to be about words, then they should be your own words. That's, I think, a very simple proposition. (loud APPLAUSE)

And, you know, lifting whole passages from someone else's speeches is not change you can believe in, it's change you can Xerox. (some applause, some loud boos) And I just don't think...

OBAMA: Come on.

(CROSSTALK) CLINTON: No, but, you know, but, Barack, it is.
Because, you know, if you look -- if you look -- if you look at the YouTube of these videos, it does raise questions.

Now, there is no doubt that you are a passionate, eloquent speaker, and I applaud you for that. But when you look at what we face in this country, we do need to unite the country, but we have to unite it for a purpose around very specific goals.

It is not enough to say, "Let's come together." We know we're going to have to work hard to overcome the opposition of those who do not want the changes to get to universal health care.
You know, when I proposed a universal health care plan, as did Senator Edwards, we took a big risk, because we know it's politically controversial to say we're going to cover everyone. And you chose not to do that. You chose to put forth a health care plan that will leave out at least 15 million people. That's a big difference.

When I said we should put a moratorium on home foreclosures, basically your response was, well, that wouldn't work. And, you know, in the last week, even President Bush has said we have to do something like that.

I just believe that we've got to look hard at the difficult challenges we face, especially after George Bush leaves the White House.
The world will breathe a sigh of relief once he is gone. We all know that.
(APPLAUSE)

But then we've got to do the hard work of not just bringing the country together, but overcoming a lot of the entrenched opposition to the very ideas that both of us believe in, and for some of us have been fighting for, for a very long time. You know, when I took on...
(APPLAUSE)
When I took on universal health care back in '93 and '94, it was against a firestorm of special interest opposition. I was more than happy to do that, because I believe passionately in getting quality affordable health care to every American.
I don't want to leave anybody out. I see the results of leaving people out. I am tired of health insurance companies deciding who will live or die in America.
(APPLAUSE)


- Still harping on "leaving people out" by not forcing them. Bleh.

Well, this dovetails neatly into what Senator Clinton was talking about.

I'm conflicted here because I do whole-heartedly support Obama, but on this one policy point I agree with Senator Clinton. I don't see what Obama's plan is doing to ensure all the benefits of universal care -- including the prevention of free riders. And I think his rhetoric about Clinton forcing people is phony. His assumption is that everyone will be able to afford health care under his plan, but when he talks about her plan he assumes there are people who won't be able to afford health care. There is a disconect there that he doesn't justify.

-- Um...since when is Social Security mandatory? You don't *have* to take a Social Security check when you retire, do you?

Um. Everybody who works is required to pay into Social Security. And everyone who qualifies gets a benefits check.

Part of the whole idea is it is a collective program that everyone participates in so there is no one gaming the system or being a free rider. Part of the political idea is that we are all in the same boat together -- it isn't simply a welfare program, so it has more support.

Yes, it is funded by a mandatory tax.

But the mandatory part under Clinton's plan would be getting healthcare, not paying a tax. To use Social Security as a comparison, Clinton would have to support fining retirees who didn't either draw a pension from a private retirement account or take social security.

That simply is a flawed analogy. Clinton's plan is just not that stupid.

More importantly, in the insurance context, there is a great benefit from including everyone that Obama's plan doesn't get.

There is also a particular political benefit from seeking universal health care as a package for everyone.

I vastly prefer Obama's plan to any plan other than that of Clinton or Edwards, but it isn't simply divine wisdom. ;)

Ok, serious answer. These are the little notes I took while going through the transcript (didn't actually see the debate).

- Obama rambles a bit too much on the Cubaa question. He does answer it, but he has a lot of other policy stuff that doesn't really serve to answer the question.

- Clinton seems to be trying too hard to say Texas and Ohio over and over and over again. It's as if she's admitting that they are now all that matters to her.

- On the economy differences question: Obama doesn't say anything about differences until the very end, but at least he gets it in. Clinton doesn't mention differences at all..

- Why can't Clinton ever just admit that something wasn't a good idea? It's always "Oh, it's because Bush did it wrong."

- Funny vision
Clinton: "So, yes, I do think that words are important and words matter, but actions speak louder than words."
Brown: Senator Obama, go ahead
Brown: "Senator Obama, do you want to respond?"
Obama: *nods* *punches Clinton* "There's your action, biatch!"

- Yeah, the "change you can xerox" line was completely unnecessary and out of line.

- Still harping on "leaving people out" by not forcing them. Bleh.

- Um...since when is Social Security mandatory? You don't *have* to take a Social Security check when you retire, do you?

- Clinton: Answer the damn question already! If you're going to go on the attack while campaigning, don't try and gloss over it come debate time. The question was not, "Why are you gonna be a great CiC?" It was "Why do you think you're the only one ready to be one?"

- Answer the question, Claire. Answer the question. The answer to "Do you agree with this assessment" is not "I don't think that'll happen so I'm going to avoid the question." Bleh

- Clinton's last answer still didn't really answer the question, but it was a good sentiment anyways. Obama didn't really answer this one either.
I've only seen a few clips of it, but from what I saw every time Clinton was talking, Obama would start writing and occasionally look up at her then go back to 'writing' with the "I'm drawing some one's face on an animal's body" look. I know I would vote some one who draws foreign leaders' heads on animal bodies while they were talking.

That simply is a flawed analogy. Clinton's plan is just not that stupid.

More importantly, in the insurance context, there is a great benefit from including everyone that Obama's plan doesn't get.

There is also a particular political benefit from seeking universal health care as a package for everyone.

I vastly prefer Obama's plan to any plan other than that of Clinton or Edwards, but it isn't simply divine wisdom. ;)

Barack Obama has numerous reasons for not including a mandate in his platform.


Spoken reasons:

- Punishing people who don't buy health insurance is counterproductive to the progressive agenda of trying to help people.

- See Massachusetts.

- Universal availability is the top priority, the most urgent concern. Make it available first, THEN look at what can be done to bring in everybody, considering forms of mandates or single payer down the road.

- Rights. Goverments forcing people to buy things is generally a bad thing, and shouldn't be rushed into.


Unspoken/implied reasons:

- Politics. Republicans will vote for measures that force insurance companies to cut costs. Some will even vote to prohibit discrimination against those with pre-existing conditions and subsidize for poor people when faced with the realities of of our broken system. Few if any will vote for a mandate, because the idea of such a mandate is opposed to everything a conservative stands for.

- Constitutionality concerns. The Supreme Court has given the feds a free ride to trample all over the tenth amendment, but it is unlikely that the current one will stand for such a blatant imposition as a mandate until some of the fogies retire and Obama can replace them.

- Cost. The economy's in the shitter and the defecit's through the roof. If 25-35 year old folks like me are healthy enough that they decide they don't need to see a doctor for a while, that ultimately helps the economy and puts us in a better fiscal position to phase in single payer later.

- More politics. Obama has said that he won't call it quits on health care until every single American is covered, which means that his plan of universal availability likely won't be enough, and he knows it. Also, he's talked about single payer in the past, but says it isn't a practical starting point of reform for our current system. This is signals to me that his plan to cut costs drastically and increase availability is intended to be a stepping stone, or perhaps a wedge, to acheive universal single payer, or at least something like single payer for the jobless and possibly employer-provided for everybody else. Once it's demonstrated that government action results in a more efficient health system, but that people still aren't being covered (because they're not choosing to buy it for whatever reasons), that will be grounds to justify further government action.


An aside - why aren't big businesses lobbying hard for universal single payer health care? It would take a huge chunk out of their operating costs, and allow them to compete better in the global marketplace by keeping jobs in the US.

I've only seen a few clips of it, but from what I saw every time Clinton was talking, Obama would start writing and occasionally look up at her then go back to 'writing' with the "I'm drawing some one's face on an animal's body" look. I know I would vote some one who draws foreign leaders' heads on animal bodies while they were talking.

You take notes in a debate to focus and organize your response. Which was why he was so able to do so.

The Factcheck.org Scorecard on the 'Pillow Fight' (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/clinton-obama_pillow_fight.html)

The abstract:
Clinton wrongly implied that Obama had little or no accomplishments to his credit. Obama recited a list of achievements at both the state and federal level, which we found to be accurate.

Obama used an outdated and probably inflated figure to support his argument that Clinton's "mandated" health care plan would exempt a large number who currently lack insurance.

Obama falsely claimed, again, that Bill Clinton's labor secretary said his health care plan reduced costs more than his opponent's.

Obama said Clinton had described his own plan as "universal" when he was down in the polls, before he became a threat. He’s right; she did.

Obama said "we have seen hate crimes skyrocket" because of the immigration debate. Actually, FBI figures show a 10.3 percent increase in anti-Hispanic incidents, and the most recent number is lower than it was in 2001.

Clinton said children of illegal immigrants, and even babies, have been left "with no one to take care of them" after workplace raids by immigration officials. But officials say news accounts have been overblown, and an independent report says persons apprehended in raids sometimes failed to tell officials about their children even when questioned.


And because I'm 12, apparently, this makes me giggle-
Connector spokesman Dick Powers says officials believe the true figure lies somewhere between 395,000 (the estimate of the Massachusetts Division of Health Care Finance Policy) and 650,000 (which was the U.S. Census Bureau’s estimate).
(for context purposes, this is clearing up how many exemptions Mass. has had to make after implementing the mandate.

Um. Everybody who works is required to pay into Social Security. And everyone who qualifies gets a benefits check.

I'm fairly certain you actually have to fill out paperwork to start getting your check. Also, even if you get it, you don't have to cash it or use it.

That simply is a flawed analogy. Clinton's plan is just not that stupid.

It's the only way that the social security analogy would work. Everyone is going to be paying taxes that are used to negotiate the insurance plan and to subsidize those who can't afford insurance (like everyone pays into social security) in either plan. But, under Clinton's plan, people who choose not to benefit from the plan get punished.

Hence the reason that I said it was a flawed analogy when Clinton used it.

More importantly, in the insurance context, there is a great benefit from including everyone that Obama's plan doesn't get.

There could be a great benefit from all sorts of authoritarian measures. That doesn't mean I support them.

If the government forced us all to be good little citizens who do everything we're supposed to, we'd all be a lot safer, I suppose. But we'd also have no freedom and we'd have no safety whatsoever from our government.

Obama owned her ass and she gave a hint of slight concession that she might not be so inevitable after all.

You take notes in a debate to focus and organize your response. Which was why he was so able to do so.

You obviously didn't read what I said :rolleyes: