NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm bored.

I've recently been hospitalised with a prolapsed [herniated] disc in my lower back, and have nothing to do except lie in bed reading NSG and participating in the NS World Cup.

So.....

Can anyone out there defend this (linky thing (http://the-end.com/2008GodsFinalWitness/?gclid=CN-ukfvC15ECFQ5HQwod9xolZg))? No, really... can you?

If you can't defend the specifics, but potentially agree with the generalities, why? Please try and state your case in a witty and intelligent manner rather than merely saying 'because it says so in Revelations'.

If you think it's self-evidently nonsense, and even hilariously funny, please feel free to demolish - but please do try and make me laugh when doing so.


And what do I think? I think I just want to sit back with some metaphorical popcorn and watch NSG entertain me for an hour or two.

Thank you for your patience and consideration.



Edit: And from a personal perspective, please let me draw a distinction between fundamentalists and mainstream Christianity. This thread is by no means intended to tar the latter by making fun of the former; I'm Eastern Orthodox (Moscow Patriarchate) myself, and this isn't supposed to be a religion-bashing thread. That said, I fully encourage anyone - from Bible-literalist fundamentalists to fully signed-up Dawkinsite atheists - to reply. Just remember... witty and intelligent answers are encouraged - I'm in pain and bored here, people!

Can anyone out there defend this (linky thing (http://the-end.com/2008GodsFinalWitness/?gclid=CN-ukfvC15ECFQ5HQwod9xolZg))? No, really... can you?Not even if I had the whole US army at my disposal..

Oh great, Christians love myths and conspiracy theories, notice how the time gets updated every time some wacko makes a Revelation 'prophecy' and it doesn't happen?

Abraham, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammad.....Ronald?

Praise be to Ronald?

Sorry but if I was an omnipotent God I would not choose my prophet to be called Ronald - it's laughable.

I'm that shallow when it comes to prophets I'm afraid.

Apologies to all those called Ronald out there, I'm sure you're very good at what you do but it's not the name of a prophet.

Abraham, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammad.....Ronald?

Praise be to Ronald?

Sorry but if I was an omnipotent God I would not choose my prophet to be called Ronald - it's laughable.

I'm that shallow when it comes to prophets I'm afraid.

Apologies to all those called Ronald out there, I'm sure you're very good at what you do but it's not the name of a prophet.

Yeah! Hurrah for Barringtonia. That's more like it!

And remember, oh doubting one... were there not six letters in each word of 'Ronald Wilson Reagan'? Does that not suggest that, verily, at least one Ronald was the harbinger of the number of the beast?

From now until the latter part of 2008, many prophecies are going to begin to be fulfilled, especially the Seven Thunders of the Book of Revelation, which the apostle John saw but was restricted from recording.Well, now...
At least he admits there's not going to be any evidence that John the apostle ever witnessed anything of the sort.

Abraham, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammad.....Ronald?

Praise be to Ronald?

Sorry but if I was an omnipotent God I would not choose my prophet to be called Ronald - it's laughable.

I'm that shallow when it comes to prophets I'm afraid.

Apologies to all those called Ronald out there, I'm sure you're very good at what you do but it's not the name of a prophet.

Apology accepted. ;)

it offers free books :confused:

how soft and absorbent are these "pages"?

Well, now...
At least he admits there's not going to be any evidence that John the apostle ever witnessed anything of the sort.

I've pretty much read* the entire book now so I can answer this.

Although John heard it but couldn't record it, God has told Ronald the story.

Essentially, God had a 7, 000 year plan all along, he created us, let us live for a while and now he's going to kill us all.

Snazzy.

He will save 144, 000 though.

Once he's killed us he's going to bring us all back, everyone who ever lived including all those babies we've aborted. We then have 100 years to damn well see the error of our ways and, well, if we don't learn then we deserve what we get.

There's 7 seals, 6 of which have been broken including Katrina (flood), Tsunami (Earthquake), 9/11 (Fire) and some others. The 7th seal will be broken this year and then we get 7 trumpets where, well revelations covers this off, angels and demons fighting and whatnot.

Why is God visiting all this destruction on us? Well, we've stretched his patience frankly, with our wicked ways what with believing in evolution and whatnot. Despite his timeless nature, he's lost his patience in just 7, 000 years, despite the fact that he had this plan all along, we're going to get frazzled for it. Thanks a bunch God.

Anyway, we are apart from God and we need to be with him again.

One real issue is that he has this line where he airily states that 'although the Church of God has not been accustomed to prophets for the last 1900 years (accustomed?), God made Ronald a prophet in 1997.

Yet he then goes on about some guy called Mr. Armstrong, to whom it was revealed that the Trinity was a lie, Mr. Armstrong is also a prophet so it kind of kills the uniqueness of Our Lord Ronald.

It reads like an NSG thread to be honest, with the same circular reading all proven by the fact that it's in the Bible.

I've heard better prophecies frankly.

*'read' meaning skimming through the free download PDF as opposed to making detailed notes, as my skimpy analysis demonstrates.

I've been doing a little more digging around the Prophet Ronald's web page (yes, I really do have that much time on my hands - see the OP), and it looks like we have the precise date of the apocalypse, brothers and sisters!

As it was mentioned in this past Sabbath’s sermon, the final countdown has begun, as the 1335 days before the actual day Jesus Christ returns began on February 2, 2008

All that we are experiencing right now is a very small taste, just an ice cube on the tip of an iceberg of what is coming, as God begins to call thousands upon tens of thousands of people over the next year. From there it goes into the millions—all in preparation for the return of Jesus Christ and the establishment of God’s Government over all the earth in the fall of 2011.

And from somewhere else on his web page, just to show the extent of the Prophet's modesty:

Although the Church of God has not been accustomed to having a prophet for nearly 1900 years, God made him [Ronald] a prophet in 1997.


You know, I may have made it clear in the OP that I didn't want this to turn into a religion-bashing thread, but I think that - whatever our personal beliefs or lack thereof - there's increasing evidence that there's every reason to turn this into a Prophet Ronald-bashing thread.

I've pretty much read* the entire book now so I can answer this. <snip>

My equally skimpy skimming of the free PDF suggests your analysis is correct.

I particularly liked the following segment which again demonstrates the modesty of the Holy Prophet Ronald (all bolding from original):

God did not allow the apostle John to write about the Seven
Thunders. John did not hear what each specific thunder was, but
he heard part of what was said about how the thunders would be
revealed. John was an apostle and a prophet, in that he recorded
all that God inspired him to write. He wrote the Book of
Revelation, but it was not given to him to understand all that he
had written. As John’s counterpart, God has given me the
understanding of the revelations given to John. In addition, I am
the spokesman, one of the very end-time prophets and witnesses
that John wrote about.

In interviews that followed the publication of my first book
and in correspondence sent to me since then, the question was
often asked, “How did God reveal these things to you?” It is by
the same means that God has so often used in the past to
reveal His will and purpose to His servants, the prophets of
old. God does this through inspiration of His spirit, the
conveying of His very thoughts (words) to the mind
(thoughts) of those with whom He is working. Many
throughout the ages, and even now, falsely make this claim as
the means that God has spoken to them. False religious
teachers have made a mockery of this means that God has
used to reveal His true will to His people.

The question about how God has revealed His truth to me is
a fair one. The answer that I am who I say I am will be given
by the events described in both books coming true exactly as I
have described. This will be the proof that I am God’s end-time
witness and spokesman. But before great power is given to me
to perform miraculous events similar to those of Moses (but
with far greater power), once the Seventh Seal is opened and
the final three and one-half years of worldwide tribulation
begins, God has reserved these Seven Thunders for me to
declare.

These Seven Thunders are a combination of God’s
inspiration in me to know His purpose and being at one with Him
concerning His will for this end-time. These thunders are largely
a matter of my own choosing, which God has given to me since I
am His spokesman and the one who will stand before Him to the
whole world during this end-time (Revelation 11:4 & Zechariah
4:14).

All Seven Thunders are given as God’s proof that I am His
end-time prophet.

God has given me the job of declaring His witness of man to
man, as part of bringing an end to man’s self rule and the
establishing of His Kingdom, His government on earth.

Hmmmm. I've read somewhere that with great power comes great responsibility. Hopefully Ronald's prepared for his climactic battle with Dr. Octopus.

Personally I welcome the apocalypse. Think of all the unmanned cars we'll have at our disposal.:gundge:

And God descendeth from the heavens in a fiery cloud and thus spaketh to Ronald....

And God descendeth from the heavens in a fiery cloud and thus spaketh to Ronald....

So God approved of Iran-Contra?

Let's see here...what's more likely...

1. This guy is an actual Prophet and is right...

2. This guy believes he is a Prophet and is just nuts...

3. Or he's making up lots of shit just to sell a book and earn some cash.

I think we'll go with explanation number three.

Sorry, but the fact that both of his books are available as free PDF downloads from the website link in the OP suggests that number three is right out.

Personally, I'm going with number 2.

[is is just me, or has Jolt been particularly time-warp prone these last couple of months?]

Let's see here...what's more likely...

1. This guy is an actual Prophet and is right...

2. This guy believes he is a Prophet and is just nuts...

3. Or he's making up lots of shit just to sell a book and earn some cash.

I think we'll go with explanation number three.

Sorry, but the fact that both of his books are available as free PDF downloads from the website link in the OP suggests that number three is right out.

Personally, I'm going with number 2.

[is is just me, or has Jolt been particularly time-warp prone these last couple of months?]

I don't know...there could be another reason. Some other type of scam going down.

Maybe he's trying to get converts to his church so they pay the church lots of useless fees and are otherwise removed from their money?

Abraham, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammad.....Ronald?

Praise be to Ronald?

Sorry but if I was an omnipotent God I would not choose my prophet to be called Ronald - it's laughable.

I'm that shallow when it comes to prophets I'm afraid.

Apologies to all those called Ronald out there, I'm sure you're very good at what you do but it's not the name of a prophet.

Then why are his churches (http://www.london-se1.co.uk/restaurants/images/070714_mcdonalds.jpg) with the holy arches all over the world?

Oh, jeez. I suppose I'll give the Jewish input on the End Times.

DISCLAIMER: The Torah does not speak of the End Times and the Tanach is rather cryptic. The Talmud has a lot of details, but all those details are in the aggadah section, which is non-binding. What I say is my understanding from talking to rabbis about the End Times. We aren't certain that we have it right.

The End of Days will come when G-d wishes it. It will be a good thing. I mean, the Muslims won't be happy about us having to demolish the Dome of the Rock to build the Third Temple, but everyone will convert to Noachism or Judaism when the Messiah comes, so it won't matter. Even the neo-Nazis and anti-Semites. Also, the dead will come back to life and roll underground towards Jerusalem (except for me, since I intend to be buried in what amounts to a missile silo, and my coffin will be a ballistic missile capable of reaching Jerusalem).

Some Jews believe that the Messiah will come in the Jewish year 6000. This is the Gregorian year 2239-2240 - mid-23rd century. A handful believe that there may have been an error in our calendar-keeping, with the effect that we are a couple centuries behind where we should be. This would put the Messiah's coming to the late 21st century. Other rabbis say that there is no basis for either belief.

Mind you, I do have a personal interest in the Jewish end times happening, apart from them being better than the Christian end times*. See, one of my friends is Catholic, and I made a bet with him about the End Times. When the Messiah comes, if it's Jesus, I buy him a drink of his choice. If it's the Jewish Messiah, he buys me a drink of my choice.

*Jewish End Times has lower death toll. Everyone just realizes that the Jews have been right all alog. Also, most people will end up in Heaven. Those who are alive at the time may even get to skip Gehenna.

Let's see here...what's more likely...

1. This guy is an actual Prophet and is right...

2. This guy believes he is a Prophet and is just nuts...

3. Or he's making up lots of shit just to sell a book and earn some cash.

I think we'll go with explanation number three.You're wrong! It's option 2. You don't need to pay for the book, hence the "Download for free" buttons on the page.

Mind you, I do have a personal interest in the Jewish end times happening, apart from them being better than the Christian end times*. See, one of my friends is Catholic, and I made a bet with him about the End Times. When the Messiah comes, if it's Jesus, I buy him a drink of his choice. If it's the Jewish Messiah, he buys me a drink of my choice.

*Jewish End Times has lower death toll. Everyone just realizes that the Jews have been right all alog. Also, most people will end up in Heaven. Those who are alive at the time may even get to skip Gehenna.

How terribly disappointing. All those centuries of persecution, pogroms, and anti-Semitism, and you don't even get to have a good blood-curdling apocalypse at the end of it all.

Then again, we Orthodox [Christians, not Jews] have been awfully confused about the Apocalypse for the last 550 years ever since it turned out that the fall of Constantinople didn't bring about the End of Days after all.

You know, I may have made it clear in the OP that I didn't want this to turn into a religion-bashing thread, but I think that - whatever our personal beliefs or lack thereof - there's increasing evidence that there's every reason to turn this into a Prophet Ronald-bashing thread.

You know, Moses did say that if a Prophet wasn't 100% accurate that we should kill him since he isn't a prophet of god. hehehehe. There should be an evil smiley.

Hey Archregimancy,

Sorry for your back.

Господа помочь Вам сохранить пост Великий пост!

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/a/ab/200px-Fedorovskaya.jpg

As an Orthodox Christian, you know how eschatology has played a serious role in Christian ideology since Her inception. “… and He will judge the quick and the dead …” Unfortunately people simply forget that only the Father knows the day and the hour and speculation gets the better of them.

The American Evangelical Ecclesial Community seems to be rather intense in this bend, to the point of becoming frothing IRF’s (Irrational Religious Fuck-heads, please excuse the language it’s just that it is what the acronym means), unfortunately.

I think it is to Christianity’s shame Her people have forgotten that God wants man to seek mercy and justice and walk in humility. It has become more of a, “I’ve got it on right and you don’t. So, I am cool and you’re a soon to be turd-smoker in hell. So there!”

This book is just another in a seemingly endless parade of end time IRF speak. It’s as valid as all the other ones that have failed to come to fruition.

Hope your back gets to feeling better.

The Book of Ronald

Chapter 1

1: And so it came to pass that the world had begun to turn away.
2: yea, even away from the LORD. And he saw that all of the people needed a new prophet.
3: Even a leader who would come forth to lead them unto HIM.
4: And so it came to pass that He did look to and fro across the world,
5: even the plains, and the hills, and the mountains, and the forests,
6: and the jungles, and the deserts and the steppes.
7: yea even on the islands did He look, and in the sea, and the oceans,
8: and the ponds and the rivers and the streams, yea even the lakes and creeks
9: He found none who would answer the call.

Chapter 2

1: And so it came to pass that the only place wherin a new prophet coul dbe found was the fast-food resturants
2: And in the returant, among the hamburgers, the french fries, yea even the big macs
3: There was a man who was called Ronald. And Ronald did hear the cry of the LORD.
4: And Ronald, in his big red shoes said unto Him, here I am Lord. And I bring McNuggets.
5: and the LORD was pleased with Ronald, and sent him forth to write a book.
6: And the book was long, and silly, and spoke of many things

...The End of Days will come when G-d wishes it...

I was about to say. Aren't all these prophets forgetting this one little caveat?

What's more, aren't these prophet's just stealing bits and pieces from that "Left Behind" book...which was itself adapted from another prophesy that some jackass made up back in the 1800s?

And if God were to confide in someone...you'd think he'd choose someone a bit more...stable...than all these people who've claimed to be prophets, wouldn't you?

http://www.boomspeed.com/looonatic/mcjesus2.jpg

http://www.boomspeed.com/looonatic/mcjesus.jpg

LG gets a slice of cheesecake.

http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/14/35/23043514.jpg

Abraham, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammad.....Ronald?

Praise be to Ronald?

Sorry but if I was an omnipotent God I would not choose my prophet to be called Ronald - it's laughable.

I'm that shallow when it comes to prophets I'm afraid.

Apologies to all those called Ronald out there, I'm sure you're very good at what you do but it's not the name of a prophet.

http://www.boomspeed.com/looonatic/mcjesus.jpg

Then why are his churches (http://www.london-se1.co.uk/restaurants/images/070714_mcdonalds.jpg) with the holy arches all over the world?

http://www.boomspeed.com/looonatic/mcjesus2.jpg

LG gets a slice of cheesecake.

http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/14/35/23043514.jpg

Yay! *pounces* :D

So God is a bastard! He's gonna end the world when I graduate high school! :p

The Pope is awakened form a sound sleep by one of his assistants.

"Holy Father! Holy Father! You must wake up!"

The Pope sits up, rubs the sleep from his eyes and says, "What is it?"

The assistant answers a little sadly. "Your Excellency, our Lord Jesus Christ has returned!"

The Pope gets to his feet. "That's wonderful news! Why do you look so unhappy?"

And the assistant replies, "The call came from Salt Lake City..."

The Pope is awakened form a sound sleep by one of his assistants.

"Holy Father! Holy Father! You must wake up!"

The Pope sits up, rubs the sleep from his eyes and says, "What is it?"

The assistant answers a little sadly. "Your Excellency, our Lord Jesus Christ has returned!"

The Pope gets to his feet. "That's wonderful news! Why do you look so unhappy?"

And the assistant replies, "The call came from Salt Lake City..."You got it wrong:
"God's on the phone, only She's calling from Salt Lake City..."

You got it wrong:
"God's on the phone, only She's calling from Salt Lake City..."

I'm still waiting on LG to notice my Book of Ronald entry...

:P

I'm still waiting on LG to notice my Book of Ronald entry...

:P

I noticed. It pleases me. If you'd like I'll give it a 'Yay! :D'

The Book of Ronald

Chapter 1

1: And so it came to pass that the world had begun to turn away.
2: yea, even away from the LORD. And he saw that all of the people needed a new prophet.
3: Even a leader who would come forth to lead them unto HIM.
4: And so it came to pass that He did look to and fro across the world,
5: even the plains, and the hills, and the mountains, and the forests,
6: and the jungles, and the deserts and the steppes.
7: yea even on the islands did He look, and in the sea, and the oceans,
8: and the ponds and the rivers and the streams, yea even the lakes and creeks
9: He found none who would answer the call.

Chapter 2

1: And so it came to pass that the only place wherin a new prophet coul dbe found was the fast-food resturants
2: And in the returant, among the hamburgers, the french fries, yea even the big macs
3: There was a man who was called Ronald. And Ronald did hear the cry of the LORD.
4: And Ronald, in his big red shoes said unto Him, here I am Lord. And I bring McNuggets.
5: and the LORD was pleased with Ronald, and sent him forth to write a book.
6: And the book was long, and silly, and spoke of many things

Yay! :D

Abraham, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammad.....Ronald?

Praise be to Ronald?

Sorry but if I was an omnipotent God I would not choose my prophet to be called Ronald - it's laughable.

But if you were God, then you would change Ronald's name. Hey, God did it with Abraham and Israel....

Yay! :D

w00t!

Can anyone out there defend this (linky thing (http://the-end.com/2008GodsFinalWitness/?gclid=CN-ukfvC15ECFQ5HQwod9xolZg))? No, really... can you?

Question 1: where in the Bible does it mention 2008 as being "the end times?"

Question 2: where in the Bible does it mention the United States, which did not even exist as such at the time it was written? Do they think it references the United States because it mentions "Philadelphia"? Because that refers to one of the seven churches that existed in present day Turkey.

Observation: Any time someone reveals themselves as God's Prophet talking about the coming Apocalypse, the first thing that comes to mind is, "Hm, in Revelation it warns of the AntiChrist coming to lead people astray...."

How does Book of Revelation compare to 2 Esdras, out of curiosity?

But if you were God, then you would change Ronald's name. Hey, God did it with Abraham and Israel....

He could change it to Roland.

And remember, oh doubting one... were there not six letters in each word of 'Ronald Wilson Reagan'? Does that not suggest that, verily, at least one Ronald was the harbinger of the number of the beast?

Verily, verily I say unto thee that only the beast shall become President of Babylon.

Well, now...
At least he admits there's not going to be any evidence that John the apostle ever witnessed anything of the sort.

...except that isn't the John of Revelations supposed to be John of Patmos, and not John the Apostle?

Just asking.

Hey Archregimancy,

Sorry for your back.

Господа помочь Вам сохранить пост Великий пост!

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/a/ab/200px-Fedorovskaya.jpg

As an Orthodox Christian, you know how eschatology has played a serious role in Christian ideology since Her inception. “… and He will judge the quick and the dead …” Unfortunately people simply forget that only the Father knows the day and the hour and speculation gets the better of them.

The American Evangelical Ecclesial Community seems to be rather intense in this bend, to the point of becoming frothing IRF’s (Irrational Religious Fuck-heads, please excuse the language it’s just that it is what the acronym means), unfortunately.

I think it is to Christianity’s shame Her people have forgotten that God wants man to seek mercy and justice and walk in humility. It has become more of a, “I’ve got it on right and you don’t. So, I am cool and you’re a soon to be turd-smoker in hell. So there!”

This book is just another in a seemingly endless parade of end time IRF speak. It’s as valid as all the other ones that have failed to come to fruition.

Hope your back gets to feeling better.

Awww, my very own icon of the Theotokos. Someone cares.

But putting on my serious hat for a moment - which is slightly risky given that I'm trying to encourage everyone to participate in this thread in a spirit of humour and mutual fun regardless of personal belief or lack thereof - and without trying to start a side discussion on classical Byzantine eschatology, I am basically in agreement.

IRFs as you so accurately call them are a blight on Christianity, and it's no wonder that so many people are turned off by their self-righteous hypocritical intolerance. But intolerance and fundamentalism aren't just Christian problems, though I have my sympathy for more secular US Citizens who understandably are inclined to think that it is. Fundamentalism isn't even a specifically religious problem, as any quick read through the depressing shouting matches of mutual intolerance that constitute so many 'debates' on NSG demonstrate. And while I may regret typing this, I find some of the frothing at the mouth intolerance I've seen from supposedly rational atheists here is just as much of a turn off as the frothing at the mouth intolerance that the Holy Prophet Ronald, an 'Islamo-facist' or a ultra-Zionist West Bank settler might come up with.

Maybe I should try and start an NSG thread based on mainstream mutual respect and tolerance.

Nah.

It wouldn't last three posts.

it offers free books :confused:

how soft and absorbent are these "pages"?

well.... if you order a physical book, how much would you like to bet that you'll be on all lists for religious books etc.

And downloads... well, I'd be worried of a laptop/desktop apocalypse! ;)

...except that isn't the John of Revelations supposed to be John of Patmos, and not John the Apostle?

Just asking.

Putting on my serious hat again for a second post in a row, that point's a matter of disagreement for scholars of the early Church.

Shamelessly plagiarising wikipedia:

John of Patmos, the author of Revelation, was traditionally believed to be the same person as both John, the apostle of Jesus and John the Evangelist, author of the Gospel of John. Justin Martyr, writing in the early 2nd century, was the first to equate the author of Revelation with John the apostle. Some biblical scholars now contend that these were separate individuals.

John the Presbyter, teacher of Papias, bishop of Hieropolis in the early 2nd century, is often conflated with John of Patmos or with the Apostle. Church historian Eusebius of Caesarea, and Dionysius of Alexandria both identified the John in Revelation as John the Presbyter. However, since John was a common name among early Christians it cannot be ruled out that John of Patmos was a John distinct from John the evangelist, John the apostle and John the author of the Johannine epistles.

So the Holy Prophet Ronald may not be wrong. In fact, how dare you cast doubt upon the thoughts of God's first prophet in 1900 years? [serious hat now clearly off again]

Putting on my serious hat again for a second post in a row, that point's a matter of disagreement for scholars of the early Church.

Shamelessly plagiarising wikipedia:



So the Holy Prophet Ronald may not be wrong. In fact, how dare you cast doubt upon the thoughts of God's first prophet in 1900 years? [serious hat now clearly off again]

Perhaps it's because we both know the name John is common as dirt -- I even know a John Smith. (My reaction on meeting him... "No, really?")

And my questioning him is because, in fact, I have been lucky enough to associate with both Roman Catholic clergy and Lutheran-Dutch Reformed clergy who encourage questioning what is told to us.

...except that isn't the John of Revelations supposed to be John of Patmos, and not John the Apostle?

Just asking.

Correct. IIRC The Book of Revelation was written circa AD 90 so if it were the same John, he'd have to be very old indeed!

Correct. IIRC The Book of Revelation was written circa AD 90 so if it were the same John, he'd have to be very old indeed!

Oh dear. My serious hat's going on for a third time...

While scholars of the subject disagree over whether John of Patmos and John the Evangelist were the same person, the latter is usually held to have died in Ephesus in c.101 AD. He would probably have been in his mid-90s.

St. Polycarp of Smyrna (c.69 AD - c. 155 AD) is believed to have been personally taught by - or at least to have learned from - John the Evangelist in his youth; this is recorded by St. Irenaeus, the most famous pupil of Polycarp, who wrote of his teacher as a direct link to the apostolic past.

I concede - since I went through this debate in another thread not to long ago - that this evidence is second hand, but both tradition and a near-contemporary (albeit second hand) source attest to John living to ripe old age.


But I'd really rather prefer to go back to making fun of the Prophet Ronald.

But I'd really rather prefer to go back to making fun of the Prophet Ronald.

Childe Ronald to the Dark Tower came...

ouch... that just hurts the synapses...

How does Book of Revelation compare to 2 Esdras, out of curiosity?2 Esdras (http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/apo/es2.htm) (Ezra, it is called 4 Esdras in the Latin Vulgate and thus in the DRV as well) is an apocryphal work not contained in any Jewish or Christian Canon. (I wondered if it was in the Coptic Canon since they have 150 books, but a quick check says it is not there). Where as The Apocrypha (Revelation) is contained in all Christian Sacred Scripture no matter what branch or denomination.

2 Esdras is a work that emphasis replacement theology. That that chosen people of God, Israel, is replaced by the Christian Church. With it’s themes it is impossible to think that Ezra the Prophet would have penned the work.

The Apocrypha is a single vision given by God to John (I believe him to be John the Theologian [aka The Evangelist and Presbyter]) and is highly symbolic of the end times as well as of Christian Worship as seen through the eyes of a late 1st century Christian that had intimate knowledge of Christ, and since I believe this to be John the Theologian, he would have also started the first Christian School of Theology in Ephesus (one of the first mega Christian Centers of the ancient world)

Though both works use imagery of animals and animal heads to represent various governments and their agencies, the resemblances stop there.

How much of a comparison are you looking for anyway … ?

He could change it to Roland.

Indeed, he should. I'm tired of embarrassing people having this name. First Reagan, then Paul, now this idiot.:mad:

Hi Arch, nice to see you out of the WC. Be forewarned of the dangers of NSG.

Anyway, I find all these end of the world stories to be complete and utter bulldookie. I plan to have a party on 22 December 2012 to laugh at all the hippies who thought the world would end the day before because some cannibalistic group of Amerindians decided it was time for the next calendar cycle. The Chinese have a new cycle every 60 years and we've never had any changes...

The End Times will come when Chaos conquers all. All hail the Everchosen.


No, seriously:

Some of these prophecies concern the demise of the United States over the next year, which will be followed by man's final world war. This last war will be the result of clashing religions and the governments they sway. Billions will die! This time will far exceed even the very worst times in all human history.

As these events unfold, the world will increasingly become aware of the authenticity of the words in this book and realize that Ronald Weinland has been sent by God as His end-time prophet.


That made me lolz.

As to the part I bolded, I can almost imagine him getting visibly excited over that thought.

Some people will do anything for attention. I hear Waco is looking for another prophet.

http://www.gilesorr.com/nucleusblog/media/1/20051020-RonaldMcDonaldThai.jpg

Fear the wrath of Ronald!

Yet he then goes on about some guy called Mr. Armstrong, to whom it was revealed that the Trinity was a lie, Mr. Armstrong is also a prophet so it kind of kills the uniqueness of Our Lord Ronald.
Armstrong was the first great televangelist, founder of the Radio Church of God which he subsequently renamed the Worldwide Church of God. He preached the-end-is-coming tommyrot in the style of the 7th-Day-Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses, except that those cults were all wrong and he was absolutely right. I once saw the cover of the first issue of his Plain Truth newsletter, from January 1933, telling us breathlessly,
A GREAT WORLD DICTATOR WILL EMERGE THIS YEAR
(impressive prediction, huh?)
WILL IT BE STALIN? MUSSOLINI? OR...
ROOSEVELT!
All during World War II, he explained how to cross-correlate the events with Ezekiel and what-not, Germany representing "Gog" and so on, and Britain and America being Israel (he was all into the "Anglo-Saxons are the lost tribes" tommyrot as well), and how it was inevitable that Germany would crush everyone. After the war, he continued to insist that Hitler was not dead but had been smuggled to Antarctica, from which he would re-emerge, as the "beast that suffered a deadly wound, and yet recovered". As years went by, he finally settled on 1975 as the absolute, for-sure-this-time end of the world. When that came and went, he apologized to his followers that he had made a little mistake in his Biblical arithmetic, "I neglected to count the years of Nebuchadnezzar's madness", which threw off his interpretation of Daniel, but only by seven years, so 1982, really-really-for-sure. Before that date came, he died, and the Worldwide Church of God has splintered into sub-sects, the main body now trying to become a rational church that thinks the Earth might just keep on spinning for a while, true believer sub-sects of course denouncing this as heresy.

"Ronald" here is a typical true-believer Armstrongite.

Meh, bring it on. I welcome the end of the world as we know it (and I feel fine).

-sigh- Idiots.

Prophecy is not about the future, as much as it is about the present. A prophet's job is to lead the people back to God. A prophet is not a fortune teller, or Nostradamus. And another thing, I hate when many Christians look at prophecy, especially the book of Revelation, and try to read current events into the imagery, when the book itself is not about predicting the future events, but rather is a book that is supposed to give hope and support for Christians who are persecuted in whatever way by friends, family, culture and government. Its a book of hope, and also of discipleship. Take the first few chapters, when talking about the 7 churches, which represents the church as a whole. There are several uses of imperatives and also present active participles, which shows us that our life is not based on a onetime confession, but rather, continuous confession with our life daily, through all that we do.

In short, there are no ways to defend that link, or the sayings of so called prophets, such as Pat Robertson, or who ever.

2 Esdras (http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/apo/es2.htm) (Ezra, it is called 4 Esdras in the Latin Vulgate and thus in the DRV as well) is an apocryphal work not contained in any Jewish or Christian Canon. (I wondered if it was in the Coptic Canon since they have 150 books, but a quick check says it is not there). Where as The Apocrypha (Revelation) is contained in all Christian Sacred Scripture no matter what branch or denomination.

2 Esdras is a work that emphasis replacement theology. That that chosen people of God, Israel, is replaced by the Christian Church. With it’s themes it is impossible to think that Ezra the Prophet would have penned the work.

The Apocrypha is a single vision given by God to John (I believe him to be John the Theologian [aka The Evangelist and Presbyter]) and is highly symbolic of the end times as well as of Christian Worship as seen through the eyes of a late 1st century Christian that had intimate knowledge of Christ, and since I believe this to be John the Theologian, he would have also started the first Christian School of Theology in Ephesus (one of the first mega Christian Centers of the ancient world)

Though both works use imagery of animals and animal heads to represent various governments and their agencies, the resemblances stop there.

How much of a comparison are you looking for anyway … ?

I was just curious as to what Esdras was about, roughly.