NationStates Jolt Archive

that depends entirely on who you ask.

If I ask a normal American.......

a normal american? they'll ask you where the fuck is taiwan.

I was reading about the Kosovo declaration of independence on the internet the other day, and there was a brief mention of the Republic of China (Taiwan) recognizing Kosovo, despite China's objections. So I have one question to ask you guys.........

Is Taiwan independent? :confused:

Taiwan is a free country..........

I could post a thousand reasons why......

that depends entirely on who you ask.

If I ask a normal American.......

IIRC, neither ROC nor PRC consider Taiwan "independent" per se. PRC's position is that Taiwan is a province in rebellion, and ROC's position is that they are a government in exile, but both consider Taiwan an integral part of China.

a normal american? they'll ask you where the fuck is taiwan.

Its off the coast of China as far as I see......I guess I studied geography too hard :D

Taiwan is a free country..........

I could post a thousand reasons why......

Liar. I tried taking it once. They told me I needed to come back with a trillion dollars before they'd even let me in through the bidding door.

:p

IIRC, neither ROC nor PRC consider Taiwan "independent" per se. PRC's position is that Taiwan is a province in rebellion, and ROC's position is that they are a government in exile, but both consider Taiwan an integral part of China.

Seems like the current president of Taiwan seems opposed to China's claim on Taiwan

Well, Taiwan was originally "ruled" by aborigines, until the Dutch took over, then they got kicked out by the Manchus (Who are not Chinese)........Until the Imperial Japanese stepped in. And today the Chinese claim that Taiwan is part of their "sacred land" even though the Chinese communists have never even stepped foot on Taiwan. Thats the history I know.......

Liar. I tried taking it once. They told me I needed to come back with a trillion dollars before they'd even let me in through the bidding door.

:p

I don't mean a thousand, but I know a lot.......

I'm currently based on Taiwan. :D

IIRC, neither ROC nor PRC consider Taiwan "independent" per se. PRC's position is that Taiwan is a province in rebellion, and ROC's position is that they are a government in exile, but both consider Taiwan an integral part of China.

Hasn't the ROC renounced its claim to being the legal government of mainland China?

In answer to the OP, Taiwan isn't quite independent, but it's close enough. Also, your poll needs a 'no, but it should be' option.

edit: a quick check on wiki would suggest that it hasn't, but it doesn't really bother much with defending its claim.

wow, you are based on Taiwan? :cool:

Yeah, threatened by over a thousand Chinese ballistic missiles :rolleyes:

Is there any way to edit the poll..........

No. :p

Hasn't the ROC renounced its claim to being the legal government of mainland China?

They may have. I wasn't aware of that.

Seems like the current president of Taiwan seems opposed to China's claim on Taiwan and the ROC's claim on China itself.

Again, I hadn't heard that. I've always heard that Taiwan runs the risk of invasion from China if they declare independence.

EDIT: Two, two time warps in one thread HAHAHA! *lightning flash*

I'm currently based on Taiwan. :D

wow, you are based on Taiwan? :cool:

In answer to the OP, Taiwan isn't quite independent, but it's close enough. Also, your poll needs a 'no, but it should be' option.

Is there any way to edit the poll..........

Really? :eek: wow, I never knew that.........

Yeah, every now and then China "tests" missles over the Straits of Taiwan.

I've always heard that Taiwan runs the risk of invasion from China if they declare independence.

The Invasion is true, but I do hope America will protect Taiwan when thats happens, or at least call for the international community to do something.

That depends on this year's presidential elections in America and Taiwan.

Um, China doesn't have a thousand ballistic missiles.

http://www.nti.org/db/china/wbmdat.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Republic_of_China_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#2006_FAS_.26_NRDC_Report

Yeah, every now and then China "tests" missles over the Straits of Taiwan.

Very true....


Astater, heres a wiki link to the missile tests
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Taiwan_Strait_Crisis

Yeah, threatened by over a thousand Chinese ballistic missiles :rolleyes:

Really? :eek: wow, I never knew that.........

Um, China doesn't have a thousand ballistic missiles.

http://www.nti.org/db/china/wbmdat.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Republic_of_China_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#2006_FAS_.26_NRDC_Report

Oh, mistake, so the missiles pointing at Taiwan are cruise missiles, I think...........

or some other kind of missile....

Very true....


Astater, heres a wiki link to the missile tests
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Taiwan_Strait_Crisis

Thanks for the link, reading it.......

As long as everyone keeps cool, and sticks to the status quo. Taiwan will be and remain de facto independent and everyone will be happy.

If idiot hot heads in any of the parties rock the boat, it could be world war 3.

It doesn't worry me much, but if the PRC annexed it I wouldn't blink.

The simple answer:

De jure no, de facto yes.

indipendent of what and for whome? why does no one ever mention the indiginous nonchinese formosans?

i am not "uncertain" at all, but quite certain that formosa is neither currently indipendent nor rightfully a part of china or of any place else.

until everyone starts setting up and turning loose with their own indipendent governments, truely indipendent, not engineered to be exploited, every former and current colony, questions like this will continue to remain somewhat moot.

china still has an iron grip on tibet, and a somewhat looser leash on korea, and an excessive influence, i think, in/on 'taiwan'. america still has puertorico, hawaii, and 'american' samoa, along with a number of other islands and sites arround the globe. gb still has a few, as do france, russia and a number of others. far too many. and too many to remember and name all of both the colonizers and the colonized. and it isn't of course just major powers, indonesia and the philipines control a number of island and other nations not rightfully other then indipendent.

=^^=
.../\...

Oh, mistake, so the missiles pointing at Taiwan are cruise missiles, I think...........

or some other kind of missile....

They are Whistling Jupiter Missiles.

its nice that Taiwan has its own little democratic government however I nor Taiwan want to fight some bloody war for international recognition

this is a very good example of where not talking about something actually works :p

Hasn't the ROC renounced its claim to being the legal government of mainland China?
The KMT has. That being Chiang Kai-Chek's party and basically the link between the two countries' legal claims, it's sorta important.

But the KMT still sees the two countries as connected, so they are against any declarations of independence and generally in favour of good relations with Beijing. The other major party is more likely to see Taiwan as a real, stand-alone country and is therefore tending towards the whole independence thing.

The population meanwhile tends to think that there isn't much wrong with the status quo and are sceptical when anyone considers changing it.

In an entirely de facto sense, Taiwan is entirely independent. In a de jure sense, it is entirely a province of China. In nonsense, it is made out of lollipops and squirrels, overseen by a leprechaun master who ferociously guards his pot of pot.

a normal american? they'll ask you where the fuck is taiwan.

sadly this is totally true. the average american thinks kabul is a new video game (my friend seriuosly said this onetime)
the kosovo thing is interesting it brings up questions about the basques and northern ireland. the basques inhabit the former anarchist catalonia, am I right?
:sniper:
:mp5:

china still has an iron grip on tibet, and a somewhat looser leash on korea,

wut?

The KMT has. That being Chiang Kai-Chek's party and basically the link between the two countries' legal claims, it's sorta important.

But the KMT still sees the two countries as connected, so they are against any declarations of independence and generally in favour of good relations with Beijing. The other major party is more likely to see Taiwan as a real, stand-alone country and is therefore tending towards the whole independence thing.

The population meanwhile tends to think that there isn't much wrong with the status quo and are sceptical when anyone considers changing it.

Yup, this summary seems about right.

Well, the KMT renouncing their claim is essentially the whole of the ROC, since the Green coalition certainly doesn't see Taiwan as the legal government-in-exile, no? Or is there some important difference that I'm not grasping?

the basques inhabit the former anarchist catalonia, am I right?


no, the basques inhabit the basque country. further west.

indipendent of what and for whome? why does no one ever mention the indiginous nonchinese formosans?

i am not "uncertain" at all, but quite certain that formosa is neither currently indipendent nor rightfully a part of china or of any place else.

until everyone starts setting up and turning loose with their own indipendent governments, truely indipendent, not engineered to be exploited, every former and current colony, questions like this will continue to remain somewhat moot.

china still has an iron grip on tibet, and a somewhat looser leash on korea, and an excessive influence, i think, in/on 'taiwan'. america still has puertorico, hawaii, and 'american' samoa, along with a number of other islands and sites arround the globe. gb still has a few, as do france, russia and a number of others. far too many. and too many to remember and name all of both the colonizers and the colonized. and it isn't of course just major powers, indonesia and the philipines control a number of island and other nations not rightfully other then indipendent.

=^^=
.../\...


peurto rico is two words, It is a lawfull teritorry, as is amercan samoa and you stupid motherfucker hawaii is a fucking state:rolleyes:

no, the basques inhabit the basque country. further west.

thanks. but they are somewhat close on the map in a geographical sense, right? or am I a totall fuckin idiot?
:confused:

thanks. but they are somewhat close on the map in a geographical sense, right? or am I a totall fuckin idiot?
:confused:

you're correct there, they are basically at either end of the pyrenees.

you're correct there, they are basically at either end of the pyrenees.

the what? I am boston irish so I dont know much about spain. please clarify this "pyreenees" concept.
:confused:

the what? I am boston irish so I dont know much about spain. please clarify this "pyreenees" concept.
:confused:

It's a reference to the lower leg joints of a body in the process of cremation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrenees

Is Taiwan independent? :confused:

Formally not. De facto, yes.

the what? I am boston irish so I dont know much about spain. please clarify this "pyreenees" concept.
:confused:

wiki is your friend.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrenees

The KMT has. That being Chiang Kai-Chek's party and basically the link between the two countries' legal claims, it's sorta important.

But the KMT still sees the two countries as connected, so they are against any declarations of independence and generally in favour of good relations with Beijing. The other major party is more likely to see Taiwan as a real, stand-alone country and is therefore tending towards the whole independence thing.

The population meanwhile tends to think that there isn't much wrong with the status quo and are sceptical when anyone considers changing it.

Dead on.

Junior year, during the diplomatic simulation I was President of Taiwan, and no matter how much fun I wanted to have, I couldn't move beyond that fact that I was supposed to act like an actual ROC President, and actually play rather conservatively. Although, I still tried to stir the shit the entire time, including an attempt to get the PRC government to think that the Russians, (both) Koreans and Japanese were ganging up on them.

Well, the KMT renouncing their claim is essentially the whole of the ROC, since the Green coalition certainly doesn't see Taiwan as the legal government-in-exile, no? Or is there some important difference that I'm not grasping?
Basically, the KMT's past claim was the only legal basis for the two countries to be considered as one from the Taiwanese side. Of course, even though the KMT has given up its official claim that doesn't mean it has actually made peace with the idea of being entirely seperate either. They're still pro-unification eventually, they just no longer insist that they'll rule the place. So that makes it more a patriotic and cultural reasoning than a legal or political one.

The DPP and its friends have made their peace meanwhile and would happily seperate if only they had a realistic chance of getting away with it.

thanks for helping out with the whole basques, catalonia, pyrenees thing.
:cool:
it was a little off topic.
Hello I am a magic penny HAVE SOME FREAKIN WISHES!!!
If you found this funny go to eddsworld.com it is fuckin hilarious.

IIRC, neither ROC nor PRC consider Taiwan "independent" per se. PRC's position is that Taiwan is a province in rebellion, and ROC's position is that they are a government in exile, but both consider Taiwan an integral part of China.

The DPP leans much more strongly toward 'Taiwan is a separate nation,' and this view seemed to be gaining steam, especially on account of Chen Shui-biens very noisy activism along those lines.

Not long ago though, the DPP suffered overwhelming losses in the Taiwanese election, and the Guomindang (KMT) took power back.

The PRC is more or less pleased with the status quo of the KMT, which is the "one China" government-in-exile attitude.

20 years from now, China might push the issue in a more material way, but as long as Taiwan doesn't have a referendum and vote for nationhood, things will be pretty much like they are now.

If things continue the way they're going now, in 20 years time Taiwan may well vote to rejoin China as a special administrative region like Macau or Hong Kong, with its own legal system and government.

Taiwan is a part of China....


Though I may be slightly (read: very) biased on this matter.

If things continue the way they're going now, in 20 years time Taiwan may well vote to rejoin China as a special administrative region like Macau or Hong Kong, with its own legal system and government.

...and this is very important concerning HK's current situation, which will continue to be treated with relative kid's gloves by the PRC until the Taiwan issue is resolved. The PRC cannot be seen to meddle too much or cause too much aggravation because it will reflect on how they might deal with Taiwan.

It puts HK in a protected position because, otherwise, I think there'd be far more impetus to shift economic power to Shanghai - as it is, there's a vested interest in keeping HK economically sound and the people happy as much as they can allow.

Is Taiwan independent? :confused:Is Kosovo?

Taiwan is a part of China....


Though I may be slightly (read: very) biased on this matter.

I think Taiwan knows where its future lies, it's hedging its bets until it's expedient to rejoin - a certain freedom retained in the face of economic necessity.

As long as everyone keeps cool, and sticks to the status quo. Taiwan will be and remain de facto independent and everyone will be happy.

If idiot hot heads in any of the parties rock the boat, it could be world war 3.Eventually Taiwan will do as Hong Kong and Macao.

I dont see US launching a Nuclear war over the Taiwan questions.
Taiwan is Chinese.

I agree that there is one China. However, for the past 50 years, Taiwan has not been a part of that China. I will recognize the Republic of Taiwan.

Taiwan might declare independence sometime before the Olympics. Either China has to invade during the Olympics and get the world pissed at them, or they let Taiwan go.

Of course, a face-saving move would be to pretend that China's motivation in trying to take back Taiwan was because the ROC wanted to take back China. If the Republic of Taiwan declares independence and renounces all claims to the mainland, China can accept that.

Say, that raises an interesting question - does Taiwan recognize the PRC?

yes. because the eu in its infinite fucking wisdom ad freedom from hypocrisy and injustice(sarcasm) decided that kosovo can be free. but not northern ireland. they dont have a right to be part of ireland and free from british occupation. and not the basques. because for some dumbass reason they just dont deserve it. Hooray for kosovo, but FUCK THE EU WITH A STRAPON!!!
they are cocksuckers.
FREE ULSTER!!! IRA ARE FREEDOM FIGHTERS NOT TERRORISTS!!
:sniper:
:mp5:If you take a look at the thing we call reality, you'll find the EU has done no such thing.

Is Kosovo?

yes. because the eu in its infinite fucking wisdom ad freedom from hypocrisy and injustice(sarcasm) decided that kosovo can be free. but not northern ireland. they dont have a right to be part of ireland and free from british occupation. and not the basques. because for some dumbass reason they just dont deserve it. Hooray for kosovo, but FUCK THE EU WITH A STRAPON!!!
they are cocksuckers.
FREE ULSTER!!! IRA ARE FREEDOM FIGHTERS NOT TERRORISTS!!
:sniper:
:mp5:

Of course, a face-saving move would be to pretend that China's motivation in trying to take back Taiwan was because the ROC wanted to take back China. If the Republic of Taiwan declares independence and renounces all claims to the mainland, China can accept that.

Say, that raises an interesting question - does Taiwan recognize the PRC?

As they already do, that doesn't really work.

The KMT has. That being Chiang Kai-Chek's party and basically the link between the two countries' legal claims, it's sorta important.

But the KMT still sees the two countries as connected, so they are against any declarations of independence and generally in favour of good relations with Beijing. The other major party is more likely to see Taiwan as a real, stand-alone country and is therefore tending towards the whole independence thing.

The population meanwhile tends to think that there isn't much wrong with the status quo and are sceptical when anyone considers changing it.

Basically, the KMT's past claim was the only legal basis for the two countries to be considered as one from the Taiwanese side. Of course, even though the KMT has given up its official claim that doesn't mean it has actually made peace with the idea of being entirely seperate either. They're still pro-unification eventually, they just no longer insist that they'll rule the place. So that makes it more a patriotic and cultural reasoning than a legal or political one.

The DPP and its friends have made their peace meanwhile and would happily seperate if only they had a realistic chance of getting away with it.

Taiwan might declare independence sometime before the Olympics. Either China has to invade during the Olympics and get the world pissed at them, or they let Taiwan go.They will invade, no matter how pissed you are. ;)

They may do it before or after the Olympics.. but the end result is the same.

The EU is run by politicians.

Water is wet.The EU also hasn't recognized Kosovo...

yes. because the eu... hypocrisy and injusticeThe EU is run by politicians.

Water is wet.

The EU is run by politicians.

Water is wet.

yes. the eu is completely full of shit. next time please dont chop my post. there was a lot of other interseting points in there.
:mp5:
:sniper:

I was reading about the Kosovo declaration of independence on the internet the other day, and there was a brief mention of the Republic of China (Taiwan) recognizing Kosovo, despite China's objections. So I have one question to ask you guys.........

Is Taiwan independent? :confused:

de facto Republic of China (also known as Taiwan, not to be confused with People's Republic of China on mainland) is independent.
de jure both sides claim to be only legal China.

yes. because the eu in its infinite fucking wisdom ad freedom from hypocrisy and injustice(sarcasm) decided that kosovo can be free. but not northern ireland. they dont have a right to be part of ireland and free from british occupation. and not the basques. because for some dumbass reason they just dont deserve it. Hooray for kosovo, but FUCK THE EU WITH A STRAPON!!!
they are cocksuckers.
FREE ULSTER!!! IRA ARE FREEDOM FIGHTERS NOT TERRORISTS!!
:sniper:
:mp5:
*Slow clap*

yes. the eu is completely full of shit. next time please dont chop my post. there was a lot of other interseting points in there.
:mp5:
:sniper:
Ahhh...the incessant gun smilies. *sighs of nostalgia*

the basques inhabit the former anarchist catalonia, am I right?
No.

yes, yes I get the point. for the record though, I kind find almost anywhere in the world on a map and tell what country it is and what etnic groups live there. I just dont know spain very well. I should get points just for knowing the basques live in spain and about anarchist catalonia, unlike most of my 14 year old friends, one of which thought kabul was an old school video game.
:sniper:
:mp5:

As teens today go, yes that's worth some points.
A friend on another board told me about how he was describing to this girl the time he spent in Brazil, and she asked where Brazil was. They were in a coffee shop with a map of the world on the wall, so he gestured at the map and said "It's the biggest country in South America?"
"Which one is South America?"
"The one below North America."
"Which one is North America?"
"The one with the United States in it."
...(you guessed it)

No.

yes, yes I get the point. for the record though, I kind find almost anywhere in the world on a map and tell what country it is and what etnic groups live there. I just dont know spain very well. I should get points just for knowing the basques live in spain and about anarchist catalonia, unlike most of my 14 year old friends, one of which thought kabul was an old school video game.
:sniper:
:mp5:

Actually, according to Chiang Kai Sek,... China belongs to Taiwan.

that depends entirely on who you ask.

This.

Liar. I tried taking it once. They told me I needed to come back with a trillion dollars before they'd even let me in through the bidding door.

:p

Free Tibet! Free Tibet! Anyone want a Free Tibet!

fuck tibet theve only been under chinas boot for 50 years.
how about a free ulster after 800 years?
or a free basque country after forever?
:mp5:
:sniper:

Well, we'd have a free Ulster, but supply and demand you know ;)

Free Tibet! Free Tibet! Anyone want a Free Tibet!

fuck tibet theve only been under chinas boot for 50 years.
how about a free ulster after 800 years?
or a free basque country after forever?
:mp5:
:sniper:

yes, yes I get the point. for the record though, I kind find almost anywhere in the world on a map and tell what country it is and what etnic groups live there. I just dont know spain very well. I should get points just for knowing the basques live in spain and about anarchist catalonia, unlike most of my 14 year old friends, one of which thought kabul was an old school video game.
:sniper:
:mp5:

*gives 2 points to AW*
*takes 2 points away for each gun smiley*

*waits for the owed 2 points*

Well, we'd have a free Ulster, but supply and demand you know ;)

no, please explain you criptic ass mofo
:mp5:
:sniper:

no, please explain you cryptic ass mofo

Spelling fixed...

Also there is one Ulster, both Ireland and Great Britain want it, therefore by the law of supply and demand it can't be free.

It was a joke (a bad one made worse by being explained)

Spelling fixed...

Also there is one Ulster, both Ireland and Great Britain want it, therefore by the law of supply and demand it can't be free.

It was a joke (a bad one made worse by being explained)

o.k. this makes sense. but it is on irish land, the british cant have it so fuck the fuckers
:mp5:
:sniper:

o.k. this makes sense. but it is on irish land, the british cant have it so fuck the fuckers

Meh, I don't care either way.

*gives 2 points to AW*
*takes 2 points away for each gun smiley*

*waits for the owed 2 points*

I deserve extra points for putting smileys
*waits for dyakovo to stop sucking, then drops dead of old age*
:sniper:
:mp5:

Meh, I don't care either way.

well I do. so the british need to give it back, the fuckin fags.
:mp5:
:sniper:

I deserve extra points for putting smileys
*waits for dyakovo to stop sucking, then drops dead of old age*
:sniper:
:mp5:

lmao

lmao

what?
sorry I have a life, so I dont know all the texting abreviations.
:sniper:
:mp5:

I completely jacked this thread, It went from taiwan to the basque seperatists and the northern ireland situation.(situation being the british needing to grow up, accept that everyone hates there fucked colonialist, imperialist bullshit, and give ot back to its rightful owners, THE IRISH)
:mp5:
:sniper:

what?
sorry I have a life, so I dont know all the texting abreviations.
:sniper:

laugh my ass off

why thank you for explaining this juvenile, idiotic, pop culture inspired abomination of the english language
:mp5:
:sniper:

......Chiang Kai Sek......


Do no mention him, he has killed tens of thousands of Taiwanese people.......:mad:

why thank you for explaining this juvenile, idiotic, pop culture inspired abomination of the english language
:mp5:
:sniper:

You're welcome :p


Now let me introduce you to the quote button in the bottom right corner of the post box...

why thank you for explaining this juvenile, idiotic, pop culture inspired abomination of the english language
:mp5:
:sniper:The irony of someone using the sniper and mp5 smilies as a signature saying this is just too much =D

IIRC, neither ROC nor PRC consider Taiwan "independent" per se. PRC's position is that Taiwan is a province in rebellion, and ROC's position is that they are a government in exile, but both consider Taiwan an integral part of China.

Unless I'm mistaken, you're correct, although it's a debated issue. Officially, "Taiwan" considers that Taiwan is not an independent country, and that it is, instead, part of China - the Republic of China, not the People's Republic of China. Officially, "Taiwan" has the same "One China policy" as the PRC, but debates it... quite a lot more. And isn't as pushy about it.

Officially, the Republic of China is this, and Taiwan is simply the small bit that's actually under the ROC's control:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/44/ROC_Administrative_and_Claims.jpg

(link (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/44/ROC_Administrative_and_Claims.jpg))

If you ask me, the KMT is crazy claiming that amount of land.

As far as I know, the RoC was formed basically at the time when the KMT has lost the war, and all they had left was Taiwan and a few islands, before that it was basically the KMT party-state.

ROC was created in 1912 then Qing dynasty collapsed.

If you ask me, the KMT is crazy claiming that amount of land.

Actually they have no reason to give up any claims of territory which they consider rightfully Chinese as long as they maintain the claim, that they are only China(which has been always KMT policy).
If ROC/Taiwan should declare independence then obviously such claims would be ridiculous.

Olmedreca;13473227']ROC was created in 1912 then Qing dynasty collapsed.



Actually they have no reason to give up any claims of territory which they consider rightfully Chinese as long as they maintain the claim, that they are only China(which has been always KMT policy).
If ROC/Taiwan should declare independence then obviously such claims would be ridiculous.

Borders are decided by troops on the ground ultimately.

Borders are decided by troops on the ground ultimately.

Indeed, but having less troops on ground does not mean that you shouldn't legally maintain your stance. ROC would not gain anything from revoking its claims, so it has no reason to revoke them until it sees itsself as China.

You're welcome :p


Now let me introduce you to the quote button in the bottom right corner of the post box...

yes I am very familiar with the qoute button, as I regularly use it to make fun of people like you (35 year old guys who live in there parents basement with their cat) and shoot down your politcal claims, thus the gun smilies...
:sniper:
:mp5:

Do no mention him, he has killed tens of thousands of Taiwanese people.......:mad:

Indigenous Taiwanese or Chinese ethnic Taiwanese? But then again without the generalissimo, there would be this two China debacle.

Killed tens of thousands of Taiwanese? I don't seem to recall any facts of history about this,... can somebody help me with this?

Indigenous Taiwanese or Chinese ethnic Taiwanese? But then again without the generalissimo, there would be this two China debacle.

Killed tens of thousands of Taiwanese? I don't seem to recall any facts of history about this,... can somebody help me with this?

There's this, I'm not sure about other incidents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/228_incident

There's this, I'm not sure about other incidents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/228_incident

Thank you. (Also found the compressed version of it in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Terror#Taiwanese_White_Terror).

Its off the coast of China as far as I see. :D
wow. you can see far!

Olmedreca;13473249'].. until it sees itsself as China.
it is China.

Killed tens of thousands of Taiwanese? I don't seem to recall any facts of history about this,... can somebody help me with this?I am guessing you live in -so called- "the west"

Oh yes, ... I live in the area south western from Formosa, if you're asking about physical location.Australia?

unless you mean to say you live in Taiwan.

I am guessing you live in -so called- "the west"

Oh yes, ... I live in the area south western from Formosa, if you're asking about physical location.

No, it's a renegade province that should be dealt with.

Oh yes, ... I live in the area south western from Formosa, if you're asking about physical location.

A bit more north from it, on the equator. The one with the earthquakes, rogue waves, dictators, bombings and all around daily chaotic life in it. :p I love this place.

Oh yes, ... I live in the area south western from Formosa, if you're asking about physical location.Australia?

unless you mean to say you live in Taiwan.A bit more north from it, on the equator. The one with the earthquakes, rogue waves, dictators, bombings and all around daily chaotic life in it. :p I love this place.


... (http://www.whereischarlie.com/flash/locator.html)

That would be the Far-East not the West.

it is China.

It's only part of China if the people of Taiwan see themselves as part of China, if they choose to see themselves as something else, than that too, is their right. If they do not wish to be part of China, but China integrates them, then that's imperialism, and we don't like Imperialism, do we, OD?

Taiwan declared it's independence, and split from China. So yes, I think it is independent.

Taiwan declared it's independence, and split from China. So yes, I think it is independent.When did that happen?

I dont want to be part of US. I am going to declare my house an independent Country.Family Guy gives a pretty good approximation of how well that will go.

No, it's a renegade province that should be dealt with.

Kind of like new jersey during the american revolution? or northern ireland during the 60s? stupid dumbass
:mp5:
:sniper:

If they do not wish to be part of China, but China integrates them, then that's imperialism, and we don't like Imperialism, do we, OD?I dont want to be part of US. I am going to declare my house an independent Country.

I dont want to be part of US. I am going to declare my house an independent Country.

The difference being, of course, that Taiwan is a group of people who do not, and have not, embraced the social contract with the government of the People's Republic of China. Their state, and increasingly, society, is distinctly different, and it has a population of 22 million people, further, they have demonstrated an ability to maintain and defend their independence. If the people of Taiwan were to wish to declare their independence, it would be well within their rights.

Your house doesn't qualify, and it's unlikely that anyone would even notice or care if you tried.

I dont want to be part of US. I am going to declare my house an independent Country.

What's your country called?
Have you considered your security with nations around you?
Need a flag?
Then sign a document with all your details and Mad hatters in jeans will sort all that out for you.

have not, embraced the social contract with the government of ...I have not embraced any contract with dear leader.

Your house doesn't qualify.why not?

I have not embraced any contract with dear leader.

You provide your tacit agreement to the social contract with the United States government by utilizing the services provided by the state, and by following the laws of the state. Your contract is not with George W. Bush, nor with the Congress or the Courts, but with the United States itself.

why not?

I cite the Montevideo Convention.

"The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: (a) a permanent population; (b) a defined territory; (c) government; and (d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states."

As it stands, your house doesn't meet criteria (c) or (d), and it's questionable that it can meet (a).

You provide your tacit agreement to the social contract with the United States government by following the laws of the state.Bullshit.

My ancestors were following the Law of the King and were using some services, until one day they changed their mind, they told him (dear leader) "take -what you call- your tacit agreement a shove it up your ass."

Bullshit.

My ancestors were following the Law of the King and were using some services, until one day they changed their mind, they told him (dear leader) "take -what you call- your tacit agreement a shove it up your ass."

Because they felt that the Parliament and George III were violating their end of the agreement. Primarily Parliament, though.

Not to be confused with P-Funk and George Clinton, I might add.

I cite the Montevideo Convention.

"The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: (a) a permanent population; (b) a defined territory; (c) government; and (d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states."
(a) absolutely
(b) yes, fenced and defined.
(c) yes, Democracy (rule by all the adults) with 2 super delegates. :D
(d) yes, and much better than current dear leader ;)

Because they felt that the Parliament and George III were violating their end of the agreement. yesterday I felt a little bump in George's forehead, no not the one on his back ... :D

(a) absolutely

Disputable, the number of human beings within said territory would likely not meet the minimum criteria.

(b) yes, fenced and defined.

Defined under whose law though? That of the state in which you live, I'd assume.

(c) yes, Democracy (rule by all the adults), with 2 super delegates. :D

On this matter I'd refer to the Badinter Commission Report, which made heavy use of the Montevideo Convention. It requires that "b) that the state is commonly defined as a community which consists of a territory and a population subject to an organized political authority; that such a state is characterized by sovereignty;"

You cannot claim sovereignty of your house,as the United States government claims sovereignty, and can enforce that sovereignty.

The PRC may claim sovereignty over the ROC/Taiwan, (and vice-versa) but neither party can enforce that sovereignty.

(d) yes, and much better than current dear leader ;)

Even less likely.

Can you send ambassadors and representatives of your state? No, no you can't.

yesterday I felt a little bump in George's forehead, no not the one on his back ... :D

That makes no sense.

No, it's a renegade province that should be dealt with.

So much for self determination, eh?

Indigenous Taiwanese or Chinese ethnic Taiwanese? But then again without the generalissimo, there would be this two China debacle.

Killed tens of thousands of Taiwanese? I don't seem to recall any facts of history about this,... can somebody help me with this?

Both, he killed the mainlanders also.

There is also the period known as the White Terror...............from the 1950s to the 1980s.....