NationStates Jolt Archive

Has anybody been following this?

The Kings party, PML(Q) seems to have been routed. PPP (Benazir's party) has won Sindh, the MQM (Muhajir/Indian migrants party) has won in Karachi and PML(N), Nawaz Shariff's party has won in Punjab. Mullah Party (MMA) loses in NWFP. Many big names lost. Turnout is not that great and rigging (multiple voting, voter list manipulations etc) has been alluded to in many reports.

A summary can be seen here

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008/02/19/story_19-2-2008_pg1_1
Liberal parties rout mullahs in NWFP : All the King’s men, gone!

* PPPP leading in National Assembly, Sindh
* PML-N leading in Punjab
* ANP leading in NWFP, PPPP close second
* Balochistan shows no clear winner
* Asfandyar Wali, Aftab Ahmad Khan Sherpao, Shah Mehmood Qureshi, and Amin Fahim big winners
* Syeda Abida Hussain, Chaudhry Pervaiz Elahi, Fazlur Rehman, Chaudhry Shahbaz Hussain lose

ISLAMABAD/LAHORE/KARACHI/ QUETTA/PESHAWAR: President Pervez Musharraf’s political allies, the Pakistan Muslim League-Quaid (PML-Q), appear to have lost their grip over the country’s parliament, with the Pakistan People’s Party-Parliamentarians (PPPP) and the PML-Nawaz (PML-N) overtaking the “bicycle” in the election race.

Lion roars again: The PML-N swept Punjab despite low voter turnout in all 35 districts of the province.

PML-Q’s Sheikh Rashid lost to PML-N’s Makhdoom Javed Hashmi in NA-55. He also lost to PML-N’s Muhammad Hanif Abbasi in NA-56, according to unofficial results.

Shujaat lost to PPPP’s Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar in his hometown of Gujrat and was lagging behind PML-N’s Rana Abdus Sattar in Sialkot. PPPP’s Shah Mehmood Qureshi also won his seat.

PPPP’s Dr Firdaus Ashiq Awan beat out PML-Q’s Chaudhry Amir Hussain. PML-Q Punjab President Pervaiz Elahi was losing on two NA seats but won a third in Attock. PML-Q’s Chaudhry Shahbaz Hussain, former population welfare minister, lost his seat for NA-62.

Other PML-Q bigwigs that lost include Rao Sikandar Iqbal, Sher Afgan Niazi, Khurshid Mehmood Kasuri, Nasir Khan, Hamid Nasir Chattha, Humayun Akhtar Khan, Chaudhry Amir Hussain, Ijazul Haq, Ghulam Sarwar Khan and Daniyal Aziz.

Meanwhile, showing that the PML-Q was not completely out, Faisal Saleh Hayat of the party beat PPPP’s Abida Hussain in NA-88.

PPPP comes home: The PPPP, based on early results, appears to have overtaken the PML-N and the MQM in Sindh, establishing the party as a force to be reckoned with in its home state. PPPP’s Amin Fahim was one of the big winners in the province.

ANP kicks in: The Awami National Party (ANP) took the maximum number of seats based on early poll results, leaving the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal in the dust. PML-Q NWFP President Amir Muqam and Aftab Ahmed Khan Sherpao, both ‘King’s men’, won the seats in their respective constituencies. According to unofficial results, Jamiat Ulema-e-Fazl chief Maulana Fazlur Rehman won in NA-26, but lost NA-24 to Faisal Karim Kundi.

Business as usual: Balochistan witnessed a historic low turnout in the parliamentary elections and the early poll results did not show a clear winner in the province, although the PML-Q appeared to be leading.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/02/19/asia/19pstan.php
Pakistanis dealt a crushing defeat to President Pervez Musharraf in parliamentary elections Monday, in what government and opposition politicians said was a firm rejection of his policies since 2001 and those of his close ally, the United States.

Almost all the leading figures in the Pakistan Muslim League-Q, the party that has governed for the last five years under Musharraf, lost their seats, including the leader of the party, Chaudhry Shujaat Hussein, the former speaker of parliament, Chaudhry Amir Hussein, and six ministers.

Though official results would not be announced until Tuesday, early returns indicated that the vote would usher in a prime minister from one of the opposition parties, and opened the prospect of a parliament that would move to undo many of Musharraf's policies and that may even try to remove him.

The early edge went to the opposition Pakistan Peoples Party, which seemed to benefit from a strong wave of sympathy in reaction to the assassination of its leader, Benazir Bhutto, eight weeks ago, and may be in a position to form the next government.

The results were interpreted here as a repudiation of Musharraf as well as the Bush administration, which has staunchly backed Musharraf for eight years as its best bet in the campaign against the Islamic militants in Pakistan. American officials will have little choice now but to seek alternative allies from among the new political forces emerging from the vote.

But the drama is not over yet. Before resigning from the army post, Musharraf gave himself sweeping powers as president which he can use to dismiss elected govts with any excuse he can come up with. Him going without a fuss is kinda difficult for me to see...the man's got a skyscraper high ego. PPP guys believe it was him who killed Benazir. Nawaz was removed from power and ousted by Musharraf. He would like to return that favor.

Musharraf's days are numbered. If he does not relinquish and pack up and leave, I think a lamp post is waiting for him. :p

AL: latest count PML(N) is 67, PPPP is 52 and PML(Q) is 36. There are 20 independents and a few others as well.

I'm only posting to try and steal the thread.

EDIT: No, I haven't been following this, but it sounds interesting, I'll read it in the morning, I'm not really open to learning anything new about a different country's politics at 11:30.

^ haha....foiled your nefarious designs. :D

Caught this funny piece of result

Ayaz Amir Pakistan Muslim League (N) 127232
Sardar Muhammad Nawab Khan Pakistan Muslim League Quaid-e-Azam 91865
Fauzia Behram Pakistan Peoples Party Parliamentarians 27632
Shaheen Baig Independent Candidate 0


Appears that even Shaheen Baig did not vote for Shaheen Baig. :p

Appears that even Shaheen Baig did not vote for Shaheen Baig. :p

I could understand that, I never like voting for myself, maybe they're the same.

I could understand that, I never like voting for myself, maybe they're the same.

I am thinking it was rigged, name taken off the ballots or votes discarded.

I am thinking it was rigged, name taken off the ballots or votes discarded.
The same thing did once happen in the UK, I think, although it was probably rigged, albeit badly.

I have been following it and it is going to be very interesting to see what happens.

The reports on rigging aren't sounding too bad. Most of the elections in Pakistan have had some "irregularities", and provided things don't get too out of hand they don't provide a basis to call this illegitimate.

It's damn good to see a lot of parties getting representation. After Musharrif's dictatorship, relatively benign as it has been, they need a unifying parliament rather than a divisive one.

Whether they get that or not will be up to the parliamentarians, of course.

The reports on rigging aren't sounding too bad. Most of the elections in Pakistan have had some "irregularities", and provided things don't get too out of hand they don't provide a basis to call this illegitimate.

It's damn good to see a lot of parties getting representation. After Musharrif's dictatorship, relatively benign as it has been, they need a unifying parliament rather than a divisive one.

Whether they get that or not will be up to the parliamentarians, of course.

So far looking good: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7253280.stm

The reports on rigging aren't sounding too bad. Most of the elections in Pakistan have had some "irregularities", and provided things don't get too out of hand they don't provide a basis to call this illegitimate.

It's damn good to see a lot of parties getting representation. After Musharrif's dictatorship, relatively benign as it has been, they need a unifying parliament rather than a divisive one.

Whether they get that or not will be up to the parliamentarians, of course.

Kiyani, the new COAS, seems to be favoring the withdrawal of army involvement in politics. He has taken out the generals posted as heads of civilian depts. He has also passed a decree forbidding officers to contact govt heads directly.

A friend who is on the ground there tells me that rigging was heavy in certain parts, but overall it was not that bad to influence large scale change in the results.

In NWFP, the religion party MMA (Military Mullah Alliance as it is aptly called) lost to the ANP. The ANP is a largely secular party going back to the days of Bacha Khan, a.k.a Frontier Gandhi for his non-violent methods as a Gandhi follower. Last time around the MMA won a lot of seats there.

Full results can be seen here

http://www.dawn.com/events/election08/results/index.htm

http://www.dawn.com/events/election08/results/images/pakistan.gif

Musharraf has rejected calls to resign following the defeat.

If PPP assumes power, who will be the PM? Zardari does not have the support even within his own party. Nawaz cannot claim to be PM because of lesser seats than PPP.

It would be interesting what sort of deal is made between PPP and PML(N) for the post of prime minister.

Thanks for the links, Aryavartha. From the look of things I think we can be cautiously optimistic. Musharrif still has to go, hopefully soon, but it looks like he's got a Parliament that won't leave a power vacuum for another strong man to fill. There's no point in dropping one dictator if you're just setting things up for the next one, after all.

Looking forward to Sharif and Zardari rip each other to shreds. Should be entertaining (though horrible in every other way).

So we've got a lame duck president and a lame duck parliament. Taking bets on how long Pakistan will last from today...

I'll be honest. I could careless about the Pakistani elections. Which is weird cause I know I probably should, but frankly Castro stepping down is more important to me.

It's damn good to see a lot of parties getting representation. After Musharrif's dictatorship, relatively benign as it has been, they need a unifying parliament rather than a divisive one.

Whether they get that or not will be up to the parliamentarians, of course.

Looking at the results, I have to wonder how many of the rival parties are actually national in scope and how many are really based almost entirely on specific provinces. Is there a serious risk of divisiveness on provincial/ethnic grounds, and perhaps even of the country splitting up? I know that there's a nationalist movement of some sort in Baluchistan...

Looking at the results, I have to wonder how many of the rival parties are actually national in scope and how many are really based almost entirely on specific provinces. Is there a serious risk of divisiveness on provincial/ethnic grounds, and perhaps even of the country splitting up? I know that there's a nationalist movement of some sort in Baluchistan...

You don't have to wonder. It is the reality. PPP is Sindh based. MQM is Mohajirs of Karachi based. PML is Punjab based. ANP is NWFP (Pashtun) based. The provinces and the parties are divided along ethnic lines. Before 1971, the Awamil League was east Pakistan (Bangladesh) based. Balochistan is so sparsely populated, that they don't have a popular political movement.

Heck, even the pre 1947 Muslim League of united India did not have a broad based support of what is now Pakistan. They won in areas that is now India and lost to the Unionist party in Punjab.

Youtube has been blocked in Pakistan following the surfacing of several rigging videos.

Here's one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbpWPoWeG_g

fwd to around 1:10 and watch the lady vote for others. She uses the same finger :p

Looks like PPP will propose their Vice President Makhdoom Amin Fahim for PM. Nawaz will agree for that in exchange for support to oust Musharraf.

http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1152418
Sharif wants Musharaff tried for treason

I read a good article saying that this wasn't just an election against Musharraf, but against hardline Islamists overall, a trend that's been seen across the Islamic world, where people are rejecting strict religion and voting or supporting a more secular state.

This (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/feb/24/pakistan) isn't that article, which was in the WSJ, but it's a view on the Pakistan elections that supports this idea.

It may be that the battle of hearts and minds is being won, not by America per se but by the people themselves - if nothing else, this last 7 years has at least brought the debate out into the open and reason seems to be winning.

Sharif wants Musharaff tried for treason
How...Pakistani of him. Don't they ever get tired of the same old, same old? You get into power, slaughter who came before you, eventually get toppled and killed yourself. If any of them actually thought this stuff through, you'd think they could come up with a better idea.

Especially with what happened to Sharif's great mentor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Zia-ul-Haq) and all...:rolleyes:

I read a good article saying that this wasn't just an election against Musharraf, but against hardline Islamists overall, a trend that's been seen across the Islamic world, where people are rejecting strict religion and voting or supporting a more secular state.
..
It may be that the battle of hearts and minds is being won, not by America per se but by the people themselves - if nothing else, this last 7 years has at least brought the debate out into the open and reason seems to be winning.

I would be cautious making that statement (at least when it comes to Pak). There is a great anti-incumbency factor + Benazir sympathy factor here. MMA lost because it was split by Fazlur Rahman moving out. And Nawaz is no 'secular' either. We see somebody shaved and dressed neatly and speaks in English and contrast him with wild-eyed bearded mullah and think that the former is a 'secular'/'moderate' while the later is an islamist.

Besides, regardless of whether the leaders are 'secular' or 'islamist' themselves, nothing short of Ataturkism can dismantle the jihad factory in Pakistan.

How...Pakistani of him. Don't they ever get tired of the same old, same old? You get into power, slaughter who came before you, eventually get toppled and killed yourself. If any of them actually thought this stuff through, you'd think they could come up with a better idea.

Especially with what happened to Sharif's great mentor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Zia-ul-Haq) and all...:rolleyes:

Do you blame him? Look at it from his POV. He was PM one day. Next day he is jailed for decades. And then he is exiled. And then he is denied entry. All of these without any trial. I am no fan of NS, but what happened to him was wrong.

He is at least trying the legal way (whatever that means in Pakistan) to oust Musharraf. Musharraf should have quit following the election results. His party was routed completely.

Btw, PM contender Fahim Amin is saying "no immediate need for impeaching Musharraf".