NationStates Jolt Archive

I don't know if this has already been posted......

http://www.azstarnet.com/allheadlines/225588

Rather interesting article about domestic terrorism, and how it is overshadowed by foreign terrorism despite being much more prevalent. Also some interesting info about left wing vs right wing terrorists.

Any thoughts?

EDIT: I dont know if that link will work for everyone, so heres another
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1110ap_domestic_extremists.html

What kind of election issue is homegrown terrorism that is spread out over time and doesn't get much media attention, if at all?

It should be noted though that homegrown terrorism is probably not going to get worse any time soon, whereas Globalized terrorist bodies like Al Qeada can gain in strength and have a much longer reaching ambition and drive. It should be noted though that contrary to popular myth, the United States is NOT Al Qeada's main target. Far more terrorist attacks have been carried out against countries like Thailand and Russia that are only affiliated with the United States in the loosest manner and often in conflict with it then against America itself, and any attacks that do occur against here are likely a recruiting magnet, hence the big unnecessary dramatic fireworks.

It should be noted though that homegrown terrorism is probably not going to get worse any time soon, whereas Globalized terrorist bodies like Al Qeada can gain in strength and have a much longer reaching ambition and drive. It should be noted though that contrary to popular myth, the United States is NOT Al Qeada's main target. Far more terrorist attacks have been carried out against countries like Thailand and Russia that are only affiliated with the United States in the loosest manner and often in conflict with it then against America itself, and any attacks that do occur against here are likely a recruiting magnet, hence the big unnecessary dramatic fireworks.

Which in turn aggravates the situation because too many sheeple here then buy into the "We haven't been attacked since 9/11 so we're doing it right" propaganda and just carry on with the same old shit that drives up their recruitments.

Wait, how are they measuring "damage"?

It should be noted though that homegrown terrorism is probably not going to get worse any time soon

really? you don't think that the rise of a black guy to the presidency might have some sort of impact on the activities of our lunatic-right friends who have been preparing for "the coming race war" by stockpiling weapons for decades?

Which in turn aggravates the situation because too many sheeple here then buy into the "We haven't been attacked since 9/11 so we're doing it right" propaganda and just carry on with the same old shit that drives up their recruitments.

The "shit" that drives up their recruitments is seeing a powerful and envied country attacked. This said, they will eventually come after us, as what they are after is, literally, a rearrangement of the world to fit their vision.

I remember P.J. O'Rourke once titled a humor book "Eat the Rich."

really? you don't think that the rise of a black guy to the presidency might have some sort of impact on the activities of our lunatic-right friends who have been preparing for "the coming race war" by stockpiling weapons for decades?

I don't think so. The worse thing that might happen is an assasination attempt, and the Secret Service has become quite capable at deflecting those.

The "shit" that drives up their recruitments is seeing a powerful and envied country attacked. This said, they will eventually come after us, as what they are after is, literally, a rearrangement of the world to fit their vision.

I remember P.J. O'Rourke once titled a humor book "Eat the Rich."

So you buy into the "They Hate Our Freedoms" drivel. I suppose the half-assed invasion of Iraq- ruled by a despot who had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11 and was keeping a firm seal on the sectarian batshit insanity that the invasion let out- had absolutely nothing to do with adding to the terrorist propaganda claming that America wants to murder Muslims and boosting their recruitment numbers?

I don't think so. The worse thing that might happen is an assasination attempt, and the Secret Service has become quite capable at deflecting those.

Most of those guys are all bluster anyways; most of the ones who aren't total cowards would certainly get their asses handed to them by a run of the mill police officer, let alone a SWAT team, the Secret Service or US military.

Which in turn aggravates the situation because too many sheeple here then buy into the "We haven't been attacked since 9/11 so we're doing it right" propaganda and just carry on with the same old shit that drives up their recruitments.

QFMFT

So you buy into the "They Hate Our Freedoms" drivel. I suppose the half-assed invasion of Iraq- ruled by a despot who had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11 and was keeping a firm seal on the sectarian batshit insanity that the invasion let out- had absolutely nothing to do with adding to the terrorist propaganda claming that America wants to murder Muslims and boosting their recruitment numbers?

Exactly.

If it's freedom they hate, then why haven't Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, Canada, Japan, or the Republic of China been attacked by AQ?

Most of those guys are all bluster anyways; most of the ones who aren't total cowards would certainly get their asses handed to them by a run of the mill police officer, let alone a SWAT team, the Secret Service or US military.

they may be mainly bluster and bumbling incompetence. but they aren't being watched, and we only found out that they already had chemical weapons by fucking accident.

they may be mainly bluster and bumbling incompetence. but they aren't being watched, and we only found out that they already had chemical weapons by fucking accident.

Whereas a Muslim man buying drain cleaner at the local Home Depot will probably be put under surveillance.

So you buy into the "They Hate Our Freedoms" drivel. I suppose the half-assed invasion of Iraq- ruled by a despot who had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11 and was keeping a firm seal on the sectarian batshit insanity that the invasion let out- had absolutely nothing to do with adding to the terrorist propaganda claming that America wants to murder Muslims and boosting their recruitment numbers?
Remember ... Shrubya "decided upon" specific use of the term "Crusade".
:headbang:

If it's freedom they hate, then why haven't Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, Canada, Japan, or the Republic of China been attacked by AQ?
Don't let go of this one. I have a strong, strong suspicion this specific point will come up again.

really? you don't think that the rise of a black guy to the presidency might have some sort of impact on the activities of our lunatic-right friends who have been preparing for "the coming race war" by stockpiling weapons for decades?
We haven't really seen a huge spike in the gasoline gallon jugs getting thrown at medical research labs or car dealerships since Bush was elected.

Remember ... Shrubya "decided upon" specific use of the term "Crusade".


that by the way didnt really help, see:
christains and Crusades: taking back jeursalam, being happy and all that shit
muslims and crusades: "oh fuck, 100 more years of those bastrads having an all out rape,robbery, sex orgy, ending with them ruining the country"

We haven't really seen a huge spike in the gasoline gallon jugs getting thrown at medical research labs or car dealerships since Bush was elected.
Well, there's an epitaph if i've ever seen one.

that by the way didnt really help, see:
christains and Crusades: taking back jeursalam, being happy and all that shit
muslims and crusades: "oh fuck, 100 more years of those bastrads having an all out rape,robbery, sex orgy, ending with them ruining the country"
Yup.
Funnier still was the fact that only one of the Crusades had any modicum of success. The rest were the miserable, humiliating failures they were deservedly destined to be.

We haven't really seen a huge spike in the gasoline gallon jugs getting thrown at medical research labs or car dealerships since Bush was elected.

should we have expected one?

should we have expected one?

Maybe if we hadn't invaded Iraq, the gas price would be low enough to make it more feasible. So we can thank Bush for that "decision"? :p
Besides, the whole right wing has more than enough hot air to do damage with that itself.

Silly people, when Americans do it it's not terrorism, it's freedom fighting.

Yup.
Funnier still was the fact that only one of the Crusades had any modicum of success. The rest were the miserable, humiliating failures they were deservedly destined to be.

just like iraq
american please face the truth about arab people:
i will fight with my brother
but i will fight with him against our cousin
but we will fight with him against another family
but they will fight with us against another tribe
and they will fight with us against another country
and THE arab countries will fight with us against a non arab country
such is the fate of any one who enters the ME

just like iraq
american please face the truth about arab people:
i will fight with my brother
but i will fight with him against our cousin
but we will fight with him against another family
but they will fight with us against another tribe
and they will fight with us against another country
and THE arab countries will fight with us against a non arab country
such is the fate of any one who enters the ME

It's not just a truth about the Arab people.

This being a common feature of the world. Europe, after all, united for the crusades (miraculously) and then proceeded to molest each other right afterwards. Same with when the Turks attacked, once again Europe united and once again, Europe fought itself after the 'event' was over. China, I'm pretty sure but not 100% certain, united whenever 'barbarians' tried to invade, but then proceeded to bicker over who had the most power.

I think part of the reason why people forget this might be because there are more only childs... I mean, with my four brothers, I know that I fight with them a lot, but if my friends attack them, I protect my brothers. If my friends are attacked, I protect my friends, etc... etc... Without growing up with siblings, one misses the important, irrational concept of sibling rivalry that just so happens to include a lot of love for one's siblings[/crackpot theory]

It's not just a truth about the Arab people.

This being a common feature of the world. Europe, after all, united for the crusades (miraculously) and then proceeded to molest each other right afterwards. Same with when the Turks attacked, once again Europe united and once again
thanks for that, i nearly shit my pants when i read it :p

Wait, how are they measuring "damage"?Probably property damage and injuries.

should we have expected one?


Sure, if nothing else, Bush is all about pursuing science and using cutting edge research methods...

This being a common feature of the world. Europe, after all, united for the crusades (miraculously) and then proceeded to molest each other right afterwards. Same with when the Turks attacked, once again Europe united and once again, Europe fought itself after the 'event' was over. Europe hardly united. France, for instance, didn't help at all when the Turks came the second time due to the fact that they hated the Hapsburgs.

Europe hardly united. France, for instance, didn't help at all when the Turks came the second time due to the fact that they hated the Hapsburgs.

IIRC my history I believe they even opened up communication with the Ottomans, hoping to get aid in their fight against the Hapsburgs.


Though that is a dimly remembered side note to a history lesson I had years ago.

IIRC my history I believe they even opened up communication with the Ottomans, hoping to get aid in their fight against the Hapsburgs.


Though that is a dimly remembered side note to a history lesson I had years ago.

Ayup.

... and the capture of Nice from the Holy Roman Empire in 1543. This last conquest occurred on behalf of France as a joint venture between the forces of the French king Francis I and those of Barbarossa.[7] France and the Ottoman Empire, united by mutual opposition to Habsburg rule in southern and central Europe, became strong allies during this period. The alliance was economic as well as military, as the sultans granted France the right of trade within the empire without levy of taxation. In fact, the Ottoman Empire was by this time a significant and accepted part of the European political sphere, and entered into a military alliance with France, England and the Netherlands against Habsburg Spain, Italy and Habsburg Austria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire#Growth_.281453.E2.80.931683.29

Ayup.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire#Growth_.281453.E2.80.931683.29


Obviously my knowledge was much more superficial. But I'm happy I haven't forgotten everything I was taught :)

I know most of you are probably sick to death of hearing about terrorism, but i was wondering.
Isn't declaring a war on terror, like declaring a war on war?
Sort of a hypocracy so to speak.

A sweeping generalisation, like fighting fire with fire, it'l take forever.
I guess a better way would be to improve the various 'democratic' governments (ie respect civil rights, and avoid becoming a big brother state), and increase their ability to receive refugees from 'undemocratic' governments, and make it easier for people to move about, that way people have more power over their government. Just a thought.

(dream, i had a wierd dream where people died, and were brought back to life by putting a robots wiring to replace their brain, so all the normal processes occured, the first being this was tried on was a dog, very odd.)

Isn't declaring a war on terror, like declaring a war on war?
Sort of a hypocracy so to speak.That's not hypocrisy, that's just redundant.
And yes, since was is terror, a "war on terror" is redundant.

should we have expected one?
That's right, you don't consider killing or property destruction in the name of animal liberation or environmentalism a crime.

That's right, you don't consider killing or property destruction in the name of animal liberation or environmentalism a crime.

english, motherfucker, do you read it?

in other words, what the fuck does that have to do with anything at all?

in other words, what the fuck does that have to do with anything at all?
You said that if Obama is elected then there would be an explosion of racist domestic terrorism. I doubt that will happen and wonder why you singled out the right for domestic terrorism. Left lunatics seem to consider Bush the equivilent of the anti-christ on environmentalism but I don't think there has been a dramatic increase in the rate of attacks on targets favored by the left.

I want you to start living as a gay woman. Tell me how you feel about that.

You said that if Obama is elected then there would be an explosion of racist domestic terrorism. I doubt that will happen

obama has been under secret service protection since last year (the earliest protection ever offered to a candidate) because the racist fucktards started making death threats. we know that there are lots of racist fucktards, we know they are organized into violent organized groups, we know that they have weapons they've been stockpiling for teh racewarz™, we know that they have been feeling brave and coming out of the shadows thanks to the republican party's open embrace of racist nativism, and we know that they have handled all of the terrorism of note besides anti-abortion terrorism in the past few decades since the decline of left-wing and black nationalist terrorism.

and wonder why you singled out the right for domestic terrorism.

because they are the ones who engage in it to any extent now, and are the ones most likely to be set off by changes in national leadership - and particularly, electing a black man president will push all of their buttons.

Left lunatics seem to consider Bush the equivilent of the anti-christ on environmentalism but I don't think there has been a dramatic increase in the rate of attacks on targets favored by the left.

aside from the fact that you still haven't come up with a reasonable definition of terrorism that can include the vast bulk of 'eco-terrorism' without also including pretty much any use of destructive force by anyone under any circumstances, the radical environmental movement is not tied to the democratic party in any way, shape, or form.

why do you believe that my argument means i should have expected an explosive increase in environmental direct action when bush came to power?

I want you to start living as a gay woman. Tell me how you feel about that.

wtf?