NationStates Jolt Archive

Maddox has already commented on this, just look for the topic "One thing PC users can do that Mac users can't..."

MY THREAD NOW BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Hit the Nail on the head.

http://www.dailytech.com/Mac+Use+Leads+To+SnobEffect/article10729.htm

as a PC user who often feels put-upon by friends with Macs, i gotta love this :D

A new study has some humorous comments at Mac owners' expense, but reveals some serious market trends

Mac users and Mac-loving analysts often use phrases like “the halo-effect” to explain increased sales of Mac computers and OS X due to iPods and iPhones. Now, the stock market site The Street has created a humorous video analysis that offers up a new explanation for this and more commercial phenomena -- the "snob"-effect.

In the video, The Street says that on average Mac users surveyed were discovered to be “self centered, arrogant, conceited” and truly "snobs". The site says this has many real commercial ramifications, so all jokes aside, the "snob"-factor warrants serious attention.

Mac users, apparently concerned with self-image, were found to buy tooth-whitening products at a far greater rate than PC users. Mac users are also more likely to visit Starbucks, buy organic food, and own hybrid cars. Furthermore, Mac users buy on average 5 new pairs of sneakers a year, well above the average for non-users.

Mac users prefer notebooks to desktops, station wagons to SUVs. Perhaps unsurprisingly, Mac users prefer "green" products, even at a higher cost. Perhaps more surprisingly, Mac users are quite law abiding and are more likely than not to pay for music -- perhaps more due to the popularity of iTunes than their moral inclinations. Mac users are more satisfied with their purchase than PC users.

Interestingly, people surveyed with an "open personality" were found to be 60% more likely to buy a Mac. Some of the more esoteric observations on Mac users character are flattering, others aren't. Mac users were found to be more liberal, socially and politically. Mac users are also less modest and more assured of their own superiority.

The interesting part about The Street's video, is that while obvious poking a bit of fun at the Mac crowd, it does illustrate some practical market trends that can be exploited for the benefit of more effective advertising and marketing to the growing crowd of Mac, iPod, and iPhone "snobs".

Hopefully there won't be too many hurt feelings, and await a possible comment from Apple Inc. CEO Steve Jobs.

any comments? :p

So basically Mac owners are trendy sheeple?

Maddox has already commented on this.

MY THREAD NOW BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Who cares about Maddox? Also I don't think you are allowed to think his site here.

You know, I see a lot more whining about Mac users from PC people than I do of this supposed Mac Fanboyism...you guys have, what? 80%, 90% of the market? Calm down.

Who needs 5 new pairs of sneakers per year? That's just wasteful, unless you're a full-time distance runner or something.

You know, I see a lot more whining about Mac users from PC people than I do of this supposed Mac Fanboyism...you guys have, what? 80%, 90% of the market? Calm down.
Just above 90%.

Both groups are quite visible, you are just less likely to notice it from those on your side.

It doesn't make Mac owners trendy sheeple; it means that the image that Apple has created appeals to a specific demographic.

I can't speak to Mac owners being snobs, except to say that I hope I am not. As to everything else (buying green, station wagon, liberal, satisfaction with purchase of Mac, etc), that fits every Mac owner that I know.

I'm a Mac user who:

- not only doesn't buy tooth-whitening products but has a chipped veneer on one tooth (for 4 months so far) and can't be bothered getting it fixed
- has never visited Starbucks
- buys cheap food over organic food
- can drive in his socks without ever taking his shoes off. The holes in them are just that big

etc, etc

Who needs 5 new pairs of sneakers per year? That's just wasteful, unless you're a full-time distance runner or something.
I only replace my boots under duress.
It doesn't make Mac owners trendy sheeple; it means that the image that Apple has created appeals to a specific demographic.

I can't speak to Mac owners being snobs, except to say that I hope I am not. As to everything else (buying green, station wagon, liberal, satisfaction with purchase of Mac, etc), that fits every Mac owner that I know.
Hey, I have VW vans, not a station wagon!...



(and we'll just ignore the fact that I've been looking to replace the cargo one with an old school sedan delivery that's essentially a station wagon with no windows along the side...)

My parents and I are all mac users. *nods*

"were found to buy tooth-whitening products at a far greater rate than PC users."-We buy one thing of toothpaste whenever it runs out

"Mac users are also more likely to visit Starbucks,"-I haven't been to a Starbucks in over a year-my parents never go.

"buy organic food"-Yep. Although we are part of a local farm, so we help grow it, too.
"and own hybrid cars"-Nah.

"5 new pairs of sneakers a year, well above the average for non-users"-I think as a family, we've bought four pairs of sneakers in the past two years.

"Mac users prefer notebooks to desktops"-Yep.

"station wagons to SUVs"-Yep

"Mac users prefer "green" products, even at a higher cost."-Nah, only when they are of equal or lower cost, generally. *nods*

"Mac users are quite law abiding and are more likely than not to pay for music"-Yep, but only cause I buy my music from the local public radio place and I like to support them.




So, do I get to be stereotyped as a typical mac user?

You know, I see a lot more whining about Mac users from PC people than I do of this supposed Mac Fanboyism...you guys have, what? 80%, 90% of the market? Calm down.

oh but i couldn't let this one go to waste ;) i just laughed too much when i read it :P

and i do get it from mac users... one friend in particular, in fact. never misses an opportunity to suggest his mac/ipod/iphone/etc is superior to anything i have. git.

I know several people who use Macs and the only time I heard about this Mac superiority complex is from people who say they have experienced it. I guess it's like racists who know a black guy that stole something once so all black guys are thieves, or had a Honda break down on them once so all Honda's are pieces of shit.

I honestly haven't had anyone I know get all uppity about how Macs are better. Like CTOAN said though, I have heard a lot of people complaining about Mac users.

I'm not a Mac user though and have no intention of buying a Mac, an iPod or an iPhone.

The Macintosh commercials made the point long before this article.

You know, the two guys that are supposed to be a PC and a Mac, and the PC guy is always a whiny caricature of Bill Gates?

I know several people who use Macs and the only time I heard about this Mac superiority complex is from people who say they have experienced it. I guess it's like racists who know a black guy that stole something once so all black guys are thieves, or had a Honda break down on them once so all Honda's are pieces of shit.

I honestly haven't had anyone I know get all uppity about how Macs are better. Like CTOAN said though, I have heard a lot of people complaining about Mac users.

I'm not a Mac user though and have no intention of buying a Mac, an iPod or an iPhone.
Wait until the next thread about someone buying a computer. Someone will recommend they buy a Mac. Even if it is overbudget or the OP explicitly states that he does not want a Mac, he will be told to buy one.

I know several people who use Macs and the only time I heard about this Mac superiority complex is from people who say they have experienced it. I guess it's like racists who know a black guy that stole something once so all black guys are thieves, or had a Honda break down on them once so all Honda's are pieces of shit.

I honestly haven't had anyone I know get all uppity about how Macs are better. Like CTOAN said though, I have heard a lot of people complaining about Mac users.

I'm not a Mac user though and have no intention of buying a Mac, an iPod or an iPhone.

My brother is a mac user, and I assure you that he fits the stereotype pretty well.

Wait until the next thread about someone buying a computer. Someone will recommend they buy a Mac. Even if it is overbudget or the OP explicitly states that he does not want a Mac, he will be told to buy one.

That very well may be true but my point is that if it was such a prevalent phenomenon that I would likely have met one of these uppity Mac users IRL.

Just wait, watch the news and I bet you'll see a black guy being charged with a crime. Ergo, most black people are criminals.

It doesn't make Mac owners trendy sheeple; it means that the image that Apple has created appeals to a specific demographic.
That demographic? Trendy sheeple.

I'm a Mac user who:

- not only doesn't buy tooth-whitening products but has a chipped veneer on one tooth (for 4 months so far) and can't be bothered getting it fixed
- has never visited Starbucks
- buys cheap food over organic food
- can drive in his socks without ever taking his shoes off. The holes in them are just that big

etc, etc

My parents and I are all mac users. *nods*

"were found to buy tooth-whitening products at a far greater rate than PC users."-We buy one thing of toothpaste whenever it runs out

"Mac users are also more likely to visit Starbucks,"-I haven't been to a Starbucks in over a year-my parents never go.

"buy organic food"-Yep. Although we are part of a local farm, so we help grow it, too.
"and own hybrid cars"-Nah.

"5 new pairs of sneakers a year, well above the average for non-users"-I think as a family, we've bought four pairs of sneakers in the past two years.

"Mac users prefer notebooks to desktops"-Yep.

"station wagons to SUVs"-Yep

"Mac users prefer "green" products, even at a higher cost."-Nah, only when they are of equal or lower cost, generally. *nods*

"Mac users are quite law abiding and are more likely than not to pay for music"-Yep, but only cause I buy my music from the local public radio place and I like to support them.



So, do I get to be stereotyped as a typical mac user?
You people must get really confused at election time when it says 60% of people voted for a certain candidate and you are like "what do you mean? I didn't vote for him!" Talk about assured of your own superiority.

The only definitive conclusion I got out of this was; Mac user are coffee sipping liberals, with more money. It really failed to make prove its point, and I say this as PC user who truly believes the only reason anyone buy s mac is to match their furniture... not that's a survey question I'd like to see the stats on: 98.9% of Mac users select their computer to match their decor.

The only definitive conclusion I got out of this was; Mac user are coffee sipping liberals, with more money. It really failed to make prove its point, and I say this as PC user who truly believes the only reason anyone buy s mac is to match their furniture... not that's a survey question I'd like to see the stats on: 98.9% of Mac users select their computer to match their decor.

Actually, I bought a Mac because my last two computers were macs and it seemed easier to just transfer all the files and programs without having to switch formats or re-learn an old platform. And those two computers were both gifts. So you could say I'm only a Mac user out of habit....

... which could explain why I don't brush my teeth to excess, don't own a hybrid vehicle, obtain music illegally, almost never buy shoes, and have no self-esteem.

Of course, it could just be a coincidence. But that would be boring.


I wonder if anyone has done a study on which music genres Mac, PC, and Linux users prefer. That would be just as scientific and far friendlier to debate!

You people must get really confused at election time when it says 60% of people voted for a certain candidate and you are like "what do you mean? I didn't vote for him!" Talk about assured of your own superiority.

So, is that another category I am mac-user enough in? I guess I could count green products as really a yes, which would make it a clear 5/9. Sweet! Now I can go to the secret mac-user only meetings where we all burn effigies of Bill Gates and drink mocha-lattes. That, and plot to take over the world. *nods*

That very well may be true but my point is that if it was such a prevalent phenomenon that I would likely have met one of these uppity Mac users IRL.

Just wait, watch the news and I bet you'll see a black guy being charged with a crime. Ergo, most black people are criminals.By your logic, since I have never seen a black person commit a crime, then they don't. If blacks committing crimes was such a prevalent issue, I would have likely seen it happen.

The only definitive conclusion I got out of this was; Mac user are coffee sipping liberals, with more money. It really failed to make prove its point, and I say this as PC user who truly believes the only reason anyone buy s mac is to match their furniture... not that's a survey question I'd like to see the stats on: 98.9% of Mac users select their computer to match their decor.

My MacBook Pro so totally clashes with everything in my house. Have you ever tried to match a brushed aluminum casing with cinnabar-stained furniture? I don't think so. :)

I bought the Mac because I'm an idiot with computers and can't be bothered with having to learn how to use Windows. I know I'm going to sound like a commercial here (and fit the stereotype), but I want a computer that just works.

I can't tell you how many times I've had to defend buying a Mac from classmates. I think that PC is good for people who want a super-customized hardware configuration, I just want to be able to turn my computer on and not have it crash after 30 minutes of work.

not that's a survey question I'd like to see the stats on: 98.9% of Mac users select their computer to match their decor.

Can't answer for the rest of Mac users (unless we ARE a hive mind! :eek: ), but I originally got a Mac 'cause it was free from my father's boss. I bought another one cause I could very easily and simply transfer everything from my old one to my new one with absolutely no knowledge of computers. *nods*


Although, it does match my room pretty amazingly. >.>

Actually, I bought a Mac because my last two computers were macs and it seemed easier to just transfer all the files and programs without having to switch formats or re-learn an old platform. And those two computers were both gifts. So you could say I'm only a Mac user out of habit....

We ARE a hive mind! *flails*

I'm getting an iPhone and a MacBook and there's nothing you can do about it, pleb!

My mother was a Mac user (but we don't have one now), and she still has trouble getting used to the 2 button mouse idea. To complicate things, I have a gaming mouse for my desktop.

http://www.dailytech.com/Mac+Use+Leads+To+SnobEffect/article10729.htm

as a PC user who often feels put-upon by friends with Macs, i gotta love this :D



any comments? :p

The thing is... more people use PC, and that large number of people is obviously going to contain people who don't care about the evironment, people who aren't snobs etc.

I'm getting an iPhone and a MacBook and there's nothing you can do about it, pleb!

Noooooooooooooooooooooooo!

"[Mac users]were found to buy tooth-whitening products at a far greater rate than PC users" I have my mouth wash and my toothpaste, something most people have

"Mac users are also more likely to visit Starbucks" Something I've never done

"buy organic food" I can't even FIND organic food within 25 miles of my town

"and own hybrid cars" I know one other Mac user that's THINKING about getting a hybrid (none that do), but I have doubts that she will. And my '96 Cavalier is FAR from being a hybrid

"Furthermore, Mac users buy on average 5 new pairs of sneakers a year" I think I bought 5 new pairs of shoes in the last four years, two of which were part of a costume for musicals I was in

"Mac users prefer notebooks to desktops" That depends on who you ask, I'm rather attached to my iMacs but I have a friend that needs to use a notebook

"station wagons to SUVs" Kinda brings us back to the hybrid part. The difference, I fit this one.

"Perhaps unsurprisingly, Mac users prefer 'green' products, even at a higher cost" The only kind of green I own is John Deere green, and last I checked, tractors and combines weren't exactly good with fuel milage.

"Perhaps more surprisingly, Mac users are quite law abiding and are more likely than not to pay for music -- perhaps more due to the popularity of iTunes than their moral inclinations." Law abiding, ya, mostly, but I typically use LimeWire or Acquisition for my music unless it's a song that I can't find a good quality version of

"Mac users are more satisfied with their purchase than PC users" Does this even need commenting on?

Next, Rotovia's comment. "98.9% of Mac users select their computer to match their decor." My latest iMac matches one thing in my room, the white walls. My dresser is a dark brown, my desk is a slightly lighter brown, the two doors in my room are a light tan, and everything else (save the aging Dell I turned into a file server and the fan that's older than the iMac) has some color other than white to it. The decade old iMac in another room is the original Bondi Blue. It kinda matches my curtains, but not quite and nothing from that era in Mac history will match furniture worth a darn.

And finally: I'm getting an iPhone and a MacBook and there's nothing you can do about it, pleb!
Go for it. Though I must ask, MacBook, MacBook Air, or MacBook Pro?

You know, I see a lot more whining about Mac users from PC people than I do of this supposed Mac Fanboyism...you guys have, what? 80%, 90% of the market? Calm down.

There are 9 times more of them then mac users ... would seem reasonable to hear more as there are more sources to hear it from.

The thing is... more people use PC, and that large number of people is obviously going to contain people who don't care about the evironment, people who aren't snobs etc.

Larger number yes ... but they are not talking about raw numbers they are talking about percentages. So the size (if sufficiently large) does not MATTER in this case.

Personally, I think that Mac users are compensating for the fact that they know their computers are useless because nothing can work on it.

Personally, I think that Mac users are compensating for the fact that they know their computers are useless because nothing can work on it.

The only reason that you can say that is because you have probably never used a Mac. Please, show me a list of software (not including games) that either does not work on mac or does not have a mac analogue.

Personally, I think that Mac users are compensating for the fact that they know their computers are useless because nothing can work on it.

I was thinking something along the same lines... some of the Macophiles these guys are talking about probably need to talk about how awesome their Mac is so they can ignore how much is sucks that they can't use the majority of software on the market.

The only reason that you can say that is because you have probably never used a Mac. Please, show me a list of software (not including games) that either does not work on mac or does not have a mac analogue.

I second that motion. And I add the comment that with Boot Camp, VM Ware Fusion, Parallels Desktop, and various other tools such as Q and QEMU, it is possible to run Windows on the new Intel Macs at native speeds and thus run all their programs.

The only reason that you can say that is because you have probably never used a Mac. Please, show me a list of software (not including games) that either does not work on mac or does not have a mac analogue.

True, that's why I was thinking it. I've never used a Mac, but games are a biggy!


Anyway, most programs are written for Windows first.

I second that motion. And I add the comment that with Boot Camp, VM Ware Fusion, Parallels Desktop, and various other tools such as Q and QEMU, it is possible to run Windows on the new Intel Macs at native speeds and thus run all their programs.

Now that is pretty cool!

Now that is pretty cool!

Yes, yes it is. And I have tested everything I just posted about to boot. They each have their fine points and Parallels and Boot Camp are the favorites for many reasons. Parallels lets you work with both OSes at native speeds AND lets you copy information between them. Boot Camp lets you run one at a time, but without the other OS taking memory and processing power, it's slightly faster and you have the flexibility of working in either OS.

True, that's why I was thinking it. I've never used a Mac, but games are a biggy!


Anyway, most programs are written for Windows first.

But when a Mac user talks about how great the Mac is, we are talking more about security, stability, speed, ease of use, etc. Since I switched over to Mac (about 5-6 years ago), I have not once installed an antivirus or spyware blocker, and I almost never have programs crash (when they do, it is usually one of my ChemDraw freeware analogues that I run through Unix).

The only reason that you can say that is because you have probably never used a Mac. Please, show me a list of software (not including games) that either does not work on mac or does not have a mac analogue.

I can list quite a few things that Mac does wrong even without listing software troubles.

But software I use on a day to day basis (Not games as that would not be fair)

Ping Plotter
Xcalcs (for use when using smb)
RDP (specifically non Postscript printer redirection, even rdesktop has that functionality)
An office suite that fully integrates with the .docx format
A reasonable mail client that does RPC over HTTP with an exchange server
A mail client that reliably does Secure SMTP on a regular basis without failing without rime nor reason

I could go into other things they do poorly non software if you would like ...

I second that motion. And I add the comment that with Boot Camp, VM Ware Fusion, Parallels Desktop, and various other tools such as Q and QEMU, it is possible to run Windows on the new Intel Macs at native speeds and thus run all their programs.

I have done the reverse and emulated OSX in both windows and VMware environment ... Doable and I can eek out better performance that direction when necessary (which is rare ... you don't see them in a lot of the business world)

Ping Plotter
Xcalcs (for use when using smb)
RDP (specifically non Postscript printer redirection, even rdesktop has that functionality)
An office suite that fully integrates with the .docx format
A reasonable mail client that does RPC over HTTP with an exchange server
A mail client that reliably does Secure SMTP on a regular basis without failing without rime nor reason

I could go into other things they do poorly non software if you would like ...

Office Suite: NeoOffice, and it's FREE OF CHARGE!!!
Mail client: Thunderbird 2 ALSO FREE
And as I stated before, there are a number of ways to run Windows natively on a Mac.

However, please, tell us of non software things they do poorly.

I can list quite a few things that Mac does wrong even without listing software troubles.

But software I use on a day to day basis (Not games as that would not be fair)

Ping Plotter
Xcalcs (for use when using smb)
RDP (specifically non Postscript printer redirection, even rdesktop has that functionality)
An office suite that fully integrates with the .docx format
A reasonable mail client that does RPC over HTTP with an exchange server
A mail client that reliably does Secure SMTP on a regular basis without failing without rime nor reason

I could go into other things they do poorly non software if you would like ...

iWork deals with docx format, I have no idea what a printer redirection program is for, as I don't need one.... Mail.app works well, there is also Thunderbird, Entourage, and a plethora of free and for-pay mail applicatioins.... i don't know what ping plotter and xcalcs are for

tell me about the non-software issues

The only reason that you can say that is because you have probably never used a Mac. Please, show me a list of software (not including games) that either does not work on mac or does not have a mac analogue.

mIRC, for one.

The Macintosh commercials made the point long before this article.

You know, the two guys that are supposed to be a PC and a Mac, and the PC guy is always a whiny caricature of Bill Gates?

And the Mac looks like a damn date rapist.

What? He does.

I can't tell you how many times I've had to defend buying a Mac from classmates. I think that PC is good for people who want a super-customized hardware configuration, I just want to be able to turn my computer on and not have it crash after 30 minutes of work.

yes, that so happens on Windows. maybe 7 to 10 years ago, but not now. i've been running this session of Vista for... over a week now, at a guess (hibernating or sleeping the laptop in-between use) and i haven't had one crash, hang or problem of any sort.

but that's PR for you.

Since I switched over to Mac (about 5-6 years ago), I have not once installed an antivirus or spyware blocker...

doesn't sound like a good idea, first off, and secondly that's largely because few people write viruses or malware for macs. the market is too small.

i've run Avast (free) and AdAware (pro - cost me about $25) for years and i haven't had a virus or any malware for as long as i can remember.
Windows Defender keeps popping up but i tell it to fuck off, and i got UAC to fuck right off from the get-go :p



edit: interestingly, most of the software i use day-to-day is staunchly the vanguard of the Mac. namely Adobe products, particularly after they bought Macromedia.

And the Mac looks like a damn date rapist.

What? He does.

He's the reason I haven't seen the most recent Die Hard movie. Unless he dies in some gruesome fashion, I probably won't, either. :p

As for Macs: I attended 11 years of public school in the U.S., so I've had enough of them. Ugh.

Yes, yes it is. And I have tested everything I just posted about to boot. They each have their fine points and Parallels and Boot Camp are the favorites for many reasons. Parallels lets you work with both OSes at native speeds AND lets you copy information between them. Boot Camp lets you run one at a time, but without the other OS taking memory and processing power, it's slightly faster and you have the flexibility of working in either OS.


Do you use Macs for work or something? Everyone I know who uses them, do so because of photo/music/video editing.


But when a Mac user talks about how great the Mac is, we are talking more about security, stability, speed, ease of use, etc. Since I switched over to Mac (about 5-6 years ago), I have not once installed an antivirus or spyware blocker, and I almost never have programs crash (when they do, it is usually one of my ChemDraw freeware analogues that I run through Unix).


I hear that a lot from Mac users actually in regards to security. People counter that it's because Windows has a larger market share so therefore the attackers focus their attention there. I kinda doubt that nobody is working on trying to get a virus to propagate through Macs though.

Noooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Yeees! Mwhahaha!

Go for it. Though I must ask, MacBook, MacBook Air, or MacBook Pro?

Pro, perhaps. Definitely not Air.

iWork deals with docx format, I have no idea what a printer redirection program is for, as I don't need one.... Mail.app works well, there is also Thunderbird, Entourage, and a plethora of free and for-pay mail applicatioins.... i don't know what ping plotter and xcalcs are for

tell me about the non-software issues

I work does it badly
RDP (with correct printer redirection) is used to remote into windows systems ... a pretty common thing now with Terminal services specially in the medical field.
I hear the new Beta version might do it

Mail, Thunderbeard and Entorage do not do RPC over http (so exchange mail is limited to on site)

Ping plotter is used for tracking network conectivity

xcalcs is used for modifying share permissions


Non software issues that I deal with revolve around a business class environment.

1) Domain authentication of any sort is a recent addition (very) before that OpenDirectory was the only option and a bad one (dcpromo'd all the machines connecting)

2) With new integrated Active directory Authentication things like roaming caching GP and other Computer OU group policies do not have an impact on the machine

3) PCL driver integration poor at best (most common) and even worse with even the postscript drivers for bigger printer companies such as Zebra, Brother and sometimes Lexmark

4) Keyring storage of SMB shares unstable at best specially when sharing with a domain which requires a password reset every 90 days

5) KDC on Windows shares when in a domain is ... interesting only allowing access to shares on a windows machine and not allowing AD authenticated shares to be viewed by other machines (including Mac's) And when sharing is actually turned on tends to flake out your view of other shares.

6) For a long time had problems with Enterprise level WPA TKIP wireless encryption ( I think this one might have been resolved for the most part)


Thats to start with

Office Suite: NeoOffice, and it's FREE OF CHARGE!!!
Mail client: Thunderbird 2 ALSO FREE
And as I stated before, there are a number of ways to run Windows natively on a Mac.

However, please, tell us of non software things they do poorly.

Interesting I hope that 2 lives up to its name, specially when MS has released and people are starting to migrate to a whole new backend for exchange. (07)

I work does it badly
RDP (with correct printer redirection) is used to remote into windows systems ... a pretty common thing now with Terminal services specially in the medical field.
I hear the new Beta version might do it

Mail, Thunderbeard and Entorage do not do RPC over http (so exchange mail is limited to on site)

Ping plotter is used for tracking network conectivity

xcalcs is used for modifying share permissions


Non software issues that I deal with revolve around a business class environment.

1) Domain authentication of any sort is a recent addition (very) before that OpenDirectory was the only option and a bad one (dcpromo'd all the machines connecting)

2) With new integrated Active directory Authentication things like roaming caching GP and other Computer OG group policies do not have an impact on the machine

3) PCL driver integration poor at best (most common) and even worse with even the postscript drivers for bigger printer companies such as Zebra, Brother and sometimes Lexmark

4) Keyring storage of SMB shares unstable at best specially when sharing with a domain which requires a password reset every 90 days

5) KDC on Windows shares when in a domain is ... interesting only allowing access to shares on a windows machine and not allowing AD authenticated shares to be viewed by other machines (including Mac's) And when sharing is actually turned on tends to flake out your view of other shares.

6) For a long time had problems with Enterprise level WPA TKIP wireless encryption ( I think this one might have been resolved for the most part)


Thats to start with

:confused:

i know this is lame, but i don't have a clue as to any of what the above means.

I had a mac laptop once.

I stopped using it when it started to delete it's own system files. It also crashed and froze up many times more then my PC.

Hrm.

Also, Macintosh is responsible for the unholy abomination that is Safari.

:D Like IE is any better

I think you have to use Safari on a Mac to really appreciate it... though nothing tops Firefox.

Also, Macintosh is responsible for the unholy abomination that is Safari.

:confused:

i know this is lame, but i don't have a clue as to any of what the above means.

Its not lame at all ... I indeed am a server admin for a living so its not a big deal I will try to sum it up a bit

1) Macs have trouble joining a domain and when they do ... do it badly (A domain is a logical grouping of computers users and other objects for central authentication, rules, computer management, and resources ... primarily a MS thing with no true competitors from either Linux or Mac)

2) When authenticating against Active directory (part of the domain from above) it does not really obey parts of the domain's rules... reducing its usefullness

3) Has trouble with some of the more common printer drivers (important in some situations)

4) Storing local usernames and passwords for windows shares dodgy

5) in a domain sharing from a mac is quirky

6) Had a lot of trouble with certain wireless security protocols


That make it clearer?

I stopped using it when it started to delete it's own system files. It also crashed and froze up many times more then my PC.


Yes, my 2007 MacBook Pro (running Leopard) crashes and freezes just about as often as my parents' 2002ish Dell and HP laptops (running XP). Especially once I leave it on for too long: I can't log back in to wake it from sleep, the keyboard starts randomly locking up, et cetera. And programs (even characteristically low-maintenance ones like firefox and itunes) frequently "fail to respond" and I have to force-quit them. I can't say they're any better than windows in that respect, or for that matter, in any other respect.

I still use it though; because I'm used to it, and because when it's not breaking down, it actually works pretty well. The same goes for most computers I know. (If I'd started out on Windows, I'd probably be using it instead.)

Yes, thank you... I've just never had any of those problems (probably because I only use my computer to do homework, research, and waste hours on end with nation simulation games and their forums).

mIRC, for one.
I've met plenty of Mac users on IRC, one of them told me he uses an IRC client called cololo...something *googles for "osx irc"*... ahh, it was Colloquy!

Many of the 'snobby' attributes mentioned in the OP just shows Mac users are willing to pay more. Of course they are willing to pay more, if they weren't they would've gone with PC instead of paying more for an equivalent Mac.

The other 'snobby' attributes just means they are okay with being different. Yeah otherwise they would have gone with the flow and used PC like normal people.

The only definitive conclusion I got out of this was; Mac user are coffee sipping liberals, with more money. It really failed to make prove its point, and I say this as PC user who truly believes the only reason anyone buy s mac is to match their furniture... not that's a survey question I'd like to see the stats on: 98.9% of Mac users select their computer to match their decor.

Let's see a Mac user come up with this then.

http://steampunkworkshop.com/images/M19.jpg

I've met plenty of Mac users on IRC, one of them told me he uses an IRC client called cololo...something *googles for "osx irc"*... ahh, it was Colloquy!

Oh, there are plenty of non mIRC IRC clients. They're pretty much all inferior, though.

Do you use Macs for work or something? Everyone I know who uses them, do so because of photo/music/video editing.

I hear that a lot from Mac users actually in regards to security. People counter that it's because Windows has a larger market share so therefore the attackers focus their attention there. I kinda doubt that nobody is working on trying to get a virus to propagate through Macs though.

No, I just use them from home, though I do use my newer one for editing as well as gaming. As for security, ya, there are viruses out there, but they're so few and far between that anyone who bothers with antivirus crap does more harm than good. Usually you'll do yourself more good by simply clearing the cookies in your web browser once a week.

Yeees! Mwhahaha!


Pro, perhaps. Definitely not Air.

Sweet, and I can see why you wouldn't want an Air.

Also, Macintosh is responsible for the unholy abomination that is Safari.

When is the last time you used Safari? I have it installed for both Mac and PC and it works better than Internet Explorer most of the time.

I've met plenty of Mac users on IRC, one of them told me he uses an IRC client called cololo...something *googles for "osx irc"*... ahh, it was Colloquy!

Many of the 'snobby' attributes mentioned in the OP just shows Mac users are willing to pay more. Of course they are willing to pay more, if they weren't they would've gone with PC instead of paying more for an equivalent Mac.

The other 'snobby' attributes just means they are okay with being different. Yeah otherwise they would have gone with the flow and used PC like normal people.

Colloquy is a wonderful thing, isn't it? It works so smoothly and simply. And we don't pay more for an equivalent computer, we pay more because we like how much better Macs work than PCs.

Many of the 'snobby' attributes mentioned in the OP just shows Mac users are willing to pay more. Of course they are willing to pay more, if they weren't they would've gone with PC instead of paying more for an equivalent Mac.

That is generally on the line of what I was thinking. The people that would pay more for a MAC usually are the people that can afford it. JUST like they can afford to buy 5 new pairs of sneakers in a year, buy a hybrid car,buy brand names,be more "green friendly".

That is generally on the line of what I was thinking. The people that would pay more for a MAC usually are the people that can afford it. JUST like they can afford to buy 5 new pairs of sneakers in a year, buy a hybrid car,buy brand names,be more "green friendly".

Check out the Dell website, and compare one of their 13.3" notebooks with a MacBook. For comparable hardware, the Mac is cheaper (I'm looking at the XPS). This is also the trend with larger notebooks and desktop computers.

For the record: I haven't bought a new pair of shoes in 2 years, and I brew my own coffee / tea at home and take it with me (I don't approve of Starbucks and their anti-union policies.)

4. The obstinacy of the non-doubleclick mouse pad continues to irritate me.



I don't know if you are aware of this, but on the newer notebooks (even the MacBook/Pro) you can enable your trackpad to use a two-finger double click. I don't even use my clicker-button-thingy anymore. You can do it through System Preferences -> Keyboard and Mouse -> Trackpad.

The MacBook Air also has the same multi-touch functionality as the iPhone (on its trackpad), I think. I still wouldn't buy one, though, because I know that I would destroy it in my book bag, and that would just kill me.

Sweet, and I can see why you wouldn't want an Air.

I use both Mac and PC and I really do like Macs but the Air does bother me for various reasons.

1. Only 1 USB port - this annoys me and despite their reasons for everything else, it seems to take accommodation of size a little too far
2. No broadband port - fine with wireless but I don't think it's widespread enough right now to warrant a lack of broadband port - I think this was a stupid move by them
3a. Built-in battery - this annoyed me with the i-Pod but I don't mind spending $100 to buy another every year or so, a laptop at $1, 700 is different and if the battery loses duration it would very much bother me at that price, but I can see that the target market might not care
3b. However, the target market does generally like a second battery option for long flights/trips and this is a big problem, you have to recharge it, you can't carry a second battery
4. The obstinacy of the non-double button mouse pad continues to irritate me.

I'm not sure this was the best move by Apple, I do love the Pro although it is a little heavy.

One thing about Macs, over and above the other points, is that their keyboards are simply lovely to use, soft and buttery to the touch.

As to the OP, I agree with, I think Sumamba Buhwan, that I hear far more griping from PC users about Macs than I do Mac users about anything - I'd say a small segment, not any of you wise folks of course, but a small segment are jealous that they're not confident enough to be seen with one.

I use both Mac and PC and I really do like Macs but the Air does bother me for various reasons.

1. Only 1 USB port - this annoys me and despite their reasons for everything else, it seems to take accommodation of size a little too far
2. No broadband port - fine with wireless but I don't think it's widespread enough right now to warrant a lack of broadband port - I think this was a stupid move by them
3a. Built-in battery - this annoyed me with the i-Pod but I don't mind spending $100 to buy another every year or so, a laptop at $1, 700 is different and if the battery loses duration it would very much bother me at that price, but I can see that the target market might not care
3b. However, the target market does generally like a second battery option for long flights/trips and this is a big problem, you have to recharge it, you can't carry a second battery
4. The obstinacy of the non-doubleclick mouse pad continues to irritate me.

I'm not sure this was the best move by Apple, I do love the Pro although it is a little heavy.

One thing about Macs, over and above the other points, is that their keyboards are simply lovely to use, soft and buttery to the touch.

As to the OP, I agree with, I think Sumamba Buhwan, that I hear far more griping from PC users about Macs than I do Mac users about anything - I'd say a small segment, not any of you wise folks of course, but a small segment are jealous that they're not confident enough to be seen with one.

I agree with everything in that list except #4. Mac users are used to the Control+click method that opens the menu just like PC users right click. And as The Black Backslash pointed out, there is double click available in the System Preferences. Also, you forgot #5: lack of Remote Disc features. It works fine for installing programs, but no music CDs, no DVD playback, AND no burning kinda ticks me off.

The MB Pro however is quite a good computer. I've seen heavier though.

And are we to assume that you're talking about the latest batch of keyboards? I have the original Apple Wireless Keyboard and it's not one of my favorites. I use rechargeable batteries and if they weren't cheaper than regular batteries, I'd be using them. I only get two to three weeks of battery life and the keyboard for my mom's fiancé's HP feels much better. Then again, different people feel different about each keyboard. My aunt has the wired version (and older) of my keyboard and she loves it.

I don't know if you are aware of this, but on the newer notebooks (even the MacBook/Pro) you can enable your trackpad to use a two-finger double click. I don't even use my clicker-button-thingy anymore. You can do it through System Preferences -> Keyboard and Mouse -> Trackpad.

The MacBook Air also has the same multi-touch functionality as the iPhone (on its trackpad), I think.

Yeah, that was the edit I made, I meant double button, as in right-click, left-click over the double click, which is the setting I have as well - I'm not the greatest fan of it.

The multi-touch is fantastic but it only works on certain applications, it doesn't work on Firefox for example - not that Firefox is proprietary.

It's a beautiful machine and, in the right frame of mind I would buy it, but I think it's limited in its target market and, to be honest, a limited segment of that limited target market as well.

It's a beautiful machine and, in the right frame of mind I would buy it, but I think it's limited in its target market and, to be honest, a limited segment of that limited target market as well.

I quite agree with you on this point.... I hope that after I get into and out of graduate school I will be able to afford such a computer.

Of course, by the time I am out of graduate school, today's MacBook Air will be quite obsolete.

I quite agree with you on this point.... I hope that after I get into and out of graduate school I will be able to afford such a computer.

Of course, by the time I am out of graduate school, today's MacBook Air will be quite obsolete.

Well, compared to the regular old MacBook, it could easily be called obsolete already. Besides that, most computers are obsolete the instant they get released to the public because there's always something new and better coming out or in development.

I agree with everything in that list except #4. Mac users are used to the Control+click method that opens the menu just like PC users right click. And as The Black Backslash pointed out, there is double click available in the System Preferences. Also, you forgot #5: lack of Remote Disc features. It works fine for installing programs, but no music CDs, no DVD playback, AND no burning kinda ticks me off.

The MB Pro however is quite a good computer. I've seen heavier though.

And are we to assume that you're talking about the latest batch of keyboards? I have the original Apple Wireless Keyboard and it's not one of my favorites. I use rechargeable batteries and if they weren't cheaper than regular batteries, I'd be using them. I only get two to three weeks of battery life and the keyboard for my mom's fiancé's HP feels much better. Then again, different people feel different about each keyboard. My aunt has the wired version (and older) of my keyboard and she loves it.

I suppose the mouse click is a preference as I started on PCs so I guess that's where that comes from.

I really don't mind a lack of CD to be honest because I rarely use CDs anymore, I can't remember the last time I used one and, for another $99, you can buy an attachment - on the very rare occasion I might watch a DVD on a laptop I could handle, and would have the time to prepare and bring it along.

I get all my music online these days or off other people's USBs.

I meant the keyboard on the laptop itself, Macbook Pro.

A lot of this is clearly preference and the Air is targeted at a specific type of customer, it's not for everyone. Yet, even for those it's targeted to, it has it's drawbacks - essentially you're looking at someone in a connected city, who doesn't travel much and is fairly wealthy. It's the inability to travel much that bothers me most - a long flight and a hotel without wireless and you're essentially screwed.

I suppose the mouse click is a preference as I started on PCs so I guess that's where that comes from.

I really don't mind a lack of CD to be honest because I rarely use CDs anymore, I can't remember the last time I used one and, for another $99, you can buy an attachment - on the very rare occasion I might watch a DVD on a laptop I could handle, and would have the time to prepare and bring it along.

I get all my music online these days or off other people's USBs.

I meant the keyboard on the laptop itself, Macbook Pro.

A lot of this is clearly preference and the Air is targeted at a specific type of customer, it's not for everyone. Yet, even for those it's targeted to, it has it's drawbacks - essentially you're looking at someone in a connected city, who doesn't travel much and is fairly wealthy. It's the inability to travel much that bothers me most - a long flight and a hotel without wireless and you're essentially screwed.

I don't like having to buy an external drive for my discs though, and I frequently use them so it would be more convenient for me to use a regular MacBook. I do get a lot of my music online too, but I still burn CDs at other people's houses or borrow CDs from others.

Oh thank God you're talking about that one. Yes, then I'll agree that that is a good keyboard, nicely built.

And the Air is definitely targeted at travelers who only want to pack light and small, and when someone is traveling to a business meeting, it's doubtful that they'll need a CD because their presentation is probably on their hard drive. And there is always the airline adaptor for long flights and various workarounds for other limitations.

I hear that a lot from Mac users actually in regards to security. People counter that it's because Windows has a larger market share so therefore the attackers focus their attention there. I kinda doubt that nobody is working on trying to get a virus to propagate through Macs though.

There are a few viruses out there. But they are made of fail. (http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=629)

http://www.dailytech.com/Mac+Use+Leads+To+SnobEffect/article10729.htm

as a PC user who often feels put-upon by friends with Macs, i gotta love this :D



any comments? :p


Am I supposed to be offended?

When is the last time you used Safari? I have it installed for both Mac and PC and it works better than Internet Explorer most of the time.

About six months ago. I had more trouble with it than any other browser ever. Hell, I had more trouble with it than I did with IE when malware managed to get into the IE software itself.

About six months ago. I had more trouble with it than any other browser ever. Hell, I had more trouble with it than I did with IE when malware managed to get into the IE software itself.

That's the strangest thing I've ever heard. I use it daily on both platforms and have no troubles with it at all aside from what would happen on any other browser.

Cute. ;) I can't stand Macs, although I have to use them in the schools since I'm interning there. If I get a full-time job as a school counselor, I'll have to use them a lot. Ugh.

Let's see a Mac user come up with this then.

http://steampunkworkshop.com/images/M19.jpg

Oooooooooh! :cool:

Oooooooooh! :cool:

Would you believe that was originally a Dell 1907FP flat panel monitor? And a standard keyboard?

And people say Macs are classy.

Yes, thank you... I've just never had any of those problems (probably because I only use my computer to do homework, research, and waste hours on end with nation simulation games and their forums).

If Mac truly wishes to contend they have to either A) integrate with the existent de-facto standard for business or B) develop an alternative

A is cheaper and has a hope in the next 10 years

Oh, there are plenty of non mIRC IRC clients. They're pretty much all inferior, though.

I prefer bitchx and Xchat myself

I'm getting an iPhone and a MacBook and there's nothing you can do about it, pleb!

http://jmc.jnumbers.com/archive/Feb2008/16.png

That's the strangest thing I've ever heard. I use it daily on both platforms and have no troubles with it at all aside from what would happen on any other browser.

I am forced to use IE often because of its functionality with some web based technologies that the other browsers are not likely to support ever ...

Not by choice by any means

As others have said, I've yet to meet even one of the much-talked-about "Mac snobs," but I've met a lot of PC users who rant about them. Weird, huh?

Seeing as I own a Mac desktop and a PC laptop, and quite like them both, I'm always rather amused by the whole debate. (Incidentally, in case you're wondering, I appreciate my Mac's prettiness, but did not get it to match the furniture; I don't drink coffee, and if I did, would not drink ludicrously expensive Starbucks coffee; I buy organic when I can afford it; I would love a hybrid car, but they're about $20,000 outside my price range; and I only buy new shoes when my old ones have worn out to the point where the soles are literally falling off. What does that make me?)

Ah, in that case, what web browser do you prefer (when not using said web based technologies).

Snip

Firefox if in a windows environment and Iceweasel when in Debian (firefox in essence) ...

those are the two environments I spend the most amount of time in besides my servers which stay with IE (those are server03 by and large)

I am forced to use IE often because of its functionality with some web based technologies that the other browsers are not likely to support ever ...

Not by choice by any means

Ah, in that case, what web browser do you prefer (when not using said web based technologies).

As others have said, I've yet to meet even one of the much-talked-about "Mac snobs," but I've met a lot of PC users who rant about them. Weird, huh?

Seeing as I own a Mac desktop and a PC laptop, and quite like them both, I'm always rather amused by the whole debate. (Incidentally, in case you're wondering, I appreciate my Mac's prettiness, but did not get it to match the furniture; I don't drink coffee, and if I did, would not drink ludicrously expensive Starbucks coffee; I buy organic when I can afford it; I would love a hybrid car, but they're about $20,000 outside my price range; and I only buy new shoes when my old ones have worn out to the point where the soles are literally falling off. What does that make me?)

Well, if you go by the article, you're a PC person. If you go by what most, if not all the Mac users here have said about themselves, you're a Mac person. Or you could be one of those middle ground people everybody (and I'm including the Linux people here) beats up. ;)

Firefox if in a windows environment and Iceweasel when in Debian (firefox in essence) ...

those are the two environments I spend the most amount of time in besides my servers which stay with IE (those are server03 by and large)

Oh, Firefox, that's something I think we can all agree upon. A good browser, lots of add-ons and customizations.
And unless my reading skills deceive me, we have a Linux user in our midst. :)

Or you could be one of those middle ground people everybody (and I'm including the Linux people here) beats up. ;)

Indeed [spoof link] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjpn3L3bSJQ) :)

Indeed [spoof link] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjpn3L3bSJQ) :)

Well, gaming isn't out of the question now that we have ways to run Windows on a Mac, but ya, kinda like that, namely the end of the skit.

Oh, Firefox, that's something I think we can all agree upon. A good browser, lots of add-ons and customizations.
And unless my reading skills deceive me, we have a Linux user in our midst. :)

Yes server and desktop experience in almost all the major distro's
Preferences of debian and a secondary of FreeBSD

I am all over the board enthusiast For the most part, cant be much of a networking guy without some ability in the environment. Though by profession I am now both a network and a windows server administrator

I operate alright in just about any OS though

Well, gaming isn't out of the question now that we have ways to run Windows on a Mac, but ya, kinda like that, namely the end of the skit.

Indeed - wasn't really commenting on games as such, more on the parody of Linux users - there's a bunch of those spoofs in terms of Linux out there and that was the one I remembered rather than trawl for a funnier one, of which I know there is one, I'm just not sure which.

http://www.dailytech.com/Mac+Use+Leads+To+SnobEffect/article10729.htm

as a PC user who often feels put-upon by friends with Macs, i gotta love this :D

any comments? :p

First off anyone who thinks that they're superior depending upon their choice of computers really needs to look into making some real accomplishments.

That having been said, let me comment on this fanwanker of an article, as a Mac user.

In the video, The Street says that on average Mac users surveyed were discovered to be “self centered, arrogant, conceited” and truly "snobs".

Who'd they interview? Demographics plz.

Mac users, apparently concerned with self-image, were found to buy tooth-whitening products at a far greater rate than PC users.

I've not even touched a package of that stuff. One tube of toothpaste lasts me months.

Mac users are also more likely to visit Starbucks.

Fuck off. I don't even drink coffee, and if I did, I'd stay as far away from that cesspit as possible. Dunkin Donuts is all I need.

Organic food...

Yeah, I just had Ramen for dinner (I actually like the stuff) and last night I had Sunday dinner with my grandmother, who I am certain doesn't give two shits where the food comes from.

own hybrid cars.

Again, I beg thee to fuck off. I don't even drive, I use the subway. And since when is caring about fuel economy, especially with today's fuel prices, "snobish"? I'd call it "smart" to search for a vehicle that has good fuel economy...but that's just me...

Furthermore, Mac users buy on average 5 new pairs of sneakers a year well above the average for non-users.

I bought my last pair of sneakers three months ago, and the pair before that lasted eight months.

Mac users prefer notebooks to desktops.

So what? A lot of people use laptops, dipshit, because having a computer to travel with is convenient. And...I know this may come as a shock to you...but there are other laptops besides Macbooks (gasp!).

...station wagons to SUVs.

Yes, because we, who choose not to drive those expensive, impractical, needlessly luxurious, gas-guzzling wasteful motherfuckers that don't even have off-road capability are SOOOOO pretentious...

Perhaps unsurprisingly, Mac users prefer "green" products, even at a higher cost.

I don't, but what does that matter? Maybe they have a genuine care for the environment (and there are a lot of eco-conscious PC users to)...

Perhaps more surprisingly, Mac users are quite law abiding and are more likely than not to pay for music -- perhaps more due to the popularity of iTunes than their moral inclinations. Mac users are more satisfied with their purchase than PC users.

Since when is not breaking the law surprising?

Interestingly, people surveyed with an "open personality" were found to be 60% more likely to buy a Mac. Some of the more esoteric observations on Mac users character are flattering, others aren't. Mac users were found to be more liberal, socially and politically.

So introverted, closed minded little twerps who hate progress are more likely to buy PCs? That's what you're saying right?

Mac users are also less modest and more assured of their own superiority.

(Sigh)

The interesting part about The Street's video, is that while obvious poking a bit of fun at the Mac crowd, it does illustrate some practical market trends that can be exploited for the benefit of more effective advertising and marketing to the growing crowd of Mac, iPod, and iPhone "snobs".

Until I start seeing diamond encrusted iPhones and gilded Macbooks, I'm sticking with my "you're full of it" statement.

...I'm sorry, was that too pretentious?

Seriously. I use a Mac because that's what I've always used. It works for me. Period. So stop making friggin' assumptions!

Thank you.

Indeed - wasn't really commenting on games as such, more on the parody of Linux users - there's a bunch of those spoofs in terms of Linux out there and that was the one I remembered rather than trawl for a funnier one, of which I know there is one, I'm just not sure which.

I know, just making a comment on the subject of the video.
Here's more of said videos with Linux: Video 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-L-0s-7-Z0&NR=1)

I know, just making a comment on the subject of the video.
Here's more of said videos with Linux: Video 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-L-0s-7-Z0&NR=1)

:)

That's funnier.

I don't know if you are aware of this, but on the newer notebooks (even the MacBook/Pro) you can enable your trackpad to use a two-finger double click. I don't even use my clicker-button-thingy anymore. You can do it through System Preferences -> Keyboard and Mouse -> Trackpad. On my Dell laptop, that is my third mouse button.

First off anyone who thinks that they're superior depending upon their choice of computers really needs to look into making some real accomplishments.

That having been said, let me comment on this fanwanker of an article, as a Mac user.



Who'd they interview? Demographics plz.



I've not even touched a package of that stuff. One tube of toothpaste lasts me months.



Fuck off. I don't even drink coffee, and if I did, I'd stay as far away from that cesspit as possible. Dunkin Donuts is all I need.



Yeah, I just had Ramen for dinner (I actually like the stuff) and last night I had Sunday dinner with my grandmother, who I am certain doesn't give two shits where the food comes from.



Again, I beg thee to fuck off. I don't even drive, I use the subway. And since when is caring about fuel economy, especially with today's fuel prices, "snobish"? I'd call it "smart" to search for a vehicle that has good fuel economy...but that's just me...



I bought my last pair of sneakers three months ago, and the pair before that lasted eight months.



So what? A lot of people use laptops, dipshit, because having a computer to travel with is convenient. And...I know this may come as a shock to you...but there are other laptops besides Macbooks (gasp!).



Yes, because we, who choose not to drive those expensive, impractical, needlessly luxurious, gas-guzzling wasteful motherfuckers that don't even have off-road capability are SOOOOO pretentious...



I don't, but what does that matter? Maybe they have a genuine care for the environment (and there are a lot of eco-conscious PC users to)...



Since when is not breaking the law surprising?



So introverted, closed minded little twerps who hate progress are more likely to buy PCs? That's what you're saying right?



(Sigh)



Until I start seeing diamond encrusted iPhones and gilded Macbooks, I'm sticking with my "you're full of it" statement.

...I'm sorry, was that too pretentious?

Seriously. I use a Mac because that's what I've always used. It works for me. Period. So stop making friggin' assumptions!

Thank you.
Just because you bucked the trend doesn't mean that Mac users aren't like that. If you want to do your own study that, go right ahead. Given the data we got, the average Mac user does appear to be a snob.

Don't fret, SUV owners where also found to be snobs.

:)

That's funnier.

I was going to post more, but I'm feeling lazy and I've got a lot going on.

Just because you bucked the trend doesn't mean that Mac users aren't like that. If you want to do your own study that, go right ahead. Given the data we got, the average Mac user does appear to be a snob.

Don't fret, SUV owners where also found to be snobs.

But still, demographics. Is this one city or many? Is it one region or nationwide? Does it go to rural areas too or just cities? You can't lump everyone together unless you get people from all walks of life. I have high doubts that people from Houston are going to have the exact same ideas as me and have the same habits.

Just for fun, here's other examples of those Linux bashing videos.

Video 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFAJDbV9Vfs&feature=PlayList&p=DED094DC7559526D&index=4)


OK, so it's one more, I ran out of videos or I missed one somewhere. :p

Less modest and more assured of their own superiority may not be positive qualities, but at least they made a conscious choice. Most Windows users don't know that Windows is separate from the hardware, or even what Windows is. They are also unaware of any alternatives. It's snob versus clueless, and I say snob is better.

Of course, being a Linux user, I'm better than either of these two groups.

Less modest and more assured of their own superiority may not be positive qualities, but at least they made a conscious choice. Most Windows users don't know that Windows is separate from the hardware, or even what Windows is. They are also unaware of any alternatives. It's snob versus clueless, and I say snob is better.

Of course, being a Linux user, I'm better than either of these two groups.

Oh, well, if those are the ONLY two choices, then ya, I'd pick snob too. But there's more to it than that so I'm not going with snob. And if you say that since you're a Linux user that you're better, aren't you just acting snobbish?

Another salvo in one of the most pointless and stupid arguments ever to rear its head.

Yes, I use a Mac, and ever since first buying one in 1997, I've received nothing but grief from people who own PCs. I have an Apple sticker on my car, and that's about as far as it goes with regard to idiotic consumer pride about a product. It does what I need it to in a way I like. End of argument.

No hybrid, no organic food, Birkenstocks or anything else that some pathetic wag tries to insinuate. My question is this: if PC users are so un-smug and truly superior, why do they bother to lampoon Mac users at all? Isn't that kinda playing into the Gandhi theory?

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."

Looks like they're somewhere between laughing and fighting.

Really, man, let's get over it. It can't be the height of wit to mock one another over a damned purchasing decision, can it? Have we become that captialistically insane?

Oh, well, if those are the ONLY two choices, then ya, I'd pick snob too. But there's more to it than that so I'm not going with snob. And if you say that since you're a Linux user that you're better, aren't you just acting snobbish?

You're a Mac user. Why should I listen to anything you have to say?

Actually, perhaps I wasn't entirely serious. I was just assuming the stereotypes were all true for a while. And that pretty much does leave you with dumb vs. snob. Or the third, and superior, alternative: intelligent, good looking, successful, but still humble (yes, that's us Linux users).

See, that's being snobbish again. I get that you could have been joking, but now we've got snob showing.

Come now, we all enjoy humour and that's all it is, as a Mac user, and this is being snobbish, one should be above the fray.

In some senses, the entire argument is false. Apple is a different beast to Microsoft and Linux is a different beast to Apple.

One could argue that, as a high-end computer, Apple does exceedingly well, especially as it's hampered by a proprietary OS, or was until Intel.

One could argue that MS brought the computer onto the desk of millions of homes.

One could argue that Linux is a huge boost to user contribution and innovation.

They're not really comparable in many senses and I certainly don't mind the design of Apple running various Window applications on Linux - whatever makes my life better.

You're a Mac user. Why should I listen to anything you have to say?

Actually, perhaps I wasn't entirely serious. I was just assuming the stereotypes were all true for a while. And that pretty much does leave you with dumb vs. snob. Or the third, and superior, alternative: intelligent, good looking, successful, but still humble (yes, that's us Linux users).

See, that's being snobbish again. I get that you could have been joking, but now we've got snob showing.

Come now, we all enjoy humour and that's all it is, as a Mac user, and this is being snobbish, one should be above the fray.

In some senses, the entire argument is false. Apple is a different beast to Microsoft and Linux is a different beast to Apple.

One could argue that, as a high-end computer, Apple does exceedingly well, especially as it's hampered by a proprietary OS, or was until Intel.

One could argue that MS brought the computer onto the desk of millions of homes.

One could argue that Linux is a huge boost to user contribution and innovation.

They're not really comparable in many senses and I certainly don't mind the design of Apple running various Window applications on Linux - whatever makes my life better.

I suppose that's true. But if it is truly correct, then the whole Mac vs. PC (and occasionally vs. Linux) thing is a moot point and doesn't need discussion. However, all I see is discussion and people trying to convince others that one is better and the other is full of snobby users.

Oh, well, if those are the ONLY two choices, then ya, I'd pick snob too. But there's more to it than that so I'm not going with snob. And if you say that since you're a Linux user that you're better, aren't you just acting snobbish?
Yes. We Linux users are the snobbiest of the bunch. At least we usually admit it, which is just another way that we are better than you.

Yes. We Linux users are the snobbiest of the bunch. At least we usually admit it, which is just another way that we are better than you.

Wow, I've met plenty of Linux users, usually they're proud of their OS. You however take it to an extreme and act like we're apes and you're some super evolved human.

First off anyone who thinks that they're superior depending upon their choice of computers really needs to look into making some real accomplishments.

i totally agree. i can't remember who it was that said it, but if you define your personality by the brands and technology you use, then you probably don't have a personality :p



interestingly, i quite fit the "Mac" profile they allude to. i try to buy local/organic/free range food, i'm liberal, i go to Cafe Nero for coffee, i try to buy green products at higher cost, i try to pay for my music (still buy CDs and use Napster)...

The only reason that you can say that is because you have probably never used a Mac. Please, show me a list of software (not including games) that either does not work on mac or does not have a mac analogue.

I actually have used a Mac, and I didn't enjoy it. Needless to say, for me, if my computer cannot play the games that I enjoy, then it is not worth me forking out the money. Macs may be alright for highly specialised stuff, but for the general population, PCs are much better.

Check out the Dell website, and compare one of their 13.3" notebooks with a MacBook. For comparable hardware, the Mac is cheaper (I'm looking at the XPS). This is also the trend with larger notebooks and desktop computers.
Okay I'll do that.

I put together an XPS with 2.66GHz C2D, 4GB 800MHz ram, Radeon HD2400 256MB, Vista Home Premium and a 19 inch monitor for $1665. I have to say Dell's website is tiresome, had to go through dozens of pages with options to get to the price on that.

The cheapest somewhat comparable Mac I can find on Apple's site is an iMac with 2.4GHz C2D, 1GB ram, Radeon HD2600 256MB and a 20 inch monitor for $2075.

Both are too expensive for me, last month I built myself a PC with 2.66GHz C2D, 4GB 800MHz ram, integrated Intel graphics (the only thing I use 3D for is desktop effects), no screen (I already have one) and Linux (free) for $665.
Wow, I've met plenty of Linux users, usually they're proud of their OS. You however take it to an extreme and act like we're apes and you're some super evolved human.
It's always the fanboy snobs you notice, they are the ones who proudly go "Look here everyone, I use this and that product!" while most people don't bother telling others what they use unless it's actually relevant.

Besides, bringing up Linux as a third alternative in a PC vs Mac hardware debate is silly since you can run either of the OSes Windows, OSX and Linux on either of the hardware platforms PC and Mac (but OSX on PC is a bit tricky I hear).

Less modest and more assured of their own superiority may not be positive qualities, but at least they made a conscious choice. Most Windows users don't know that Windows is separate from the hardware, or even what Windows is. They are also unaware of any alternatives. It's snob versus clueless, and I say snob is better.

Of course, being a Linux user, I'm better than either of these two groups.

As IT support for years I have found both the Mac and MS users to be about equally knoledgeable of their OS ... Some rise above in both classes but they are few and far between

Snip
Besides, bringing up Linux as a third alternative in a PC vs Mac hardware debate is silly since you can run either of the OSes Windows, OSX and Linux on either of the hardware platforms PC and Mac (but OSX on PC is a bit tricky I hear).

But dooable ... more then a technology hurdle (Things like Mac not being very hardware compatable) is the legal hurdle Mac is putting up.

I have virtualized it for the purpose of some testing and some screenshot documentation as well, but not something I really cared to use.

"Perhaps more surprisingly, Mac users are quite law abiding and are more likely than not to pay for music -- perhaps more due to the popularity of iTunes than their moral inclinations."

So...we're snobs because we don't break the law? Fuck it, then, I'm a snob.

So...we're snobs because we don't break the law? Fuck it, then, I'm a snob.

What?

http://www.dailytech.com/Mac+Use+Leads+To+SnobEffect/article10729.htm

as a PC user who often feels put-upon by friends with Macs, i gotta love this :D



any comments? :p

How does a certain type of computer link to a type of behaviour?
All subjective analysis, where's the link to this so called 'study'?
Probably a jab at Mac companies because their stuff works better, and doesn't crash or go freeky.
I don't know anyone here with a Mac.
Their definition of 'snob' doesn't stand up to any analysis.
Pull the other one it's got bells on it.

I thought this was talking about MAC makeup! :]

So... drinking coffee, having white teeth, and trying not to pollute are bad things now?

These all sound like the stereotypical artist. Artists often use macs.

What?

Uh...I quoted the post I was responding to...I don't know how else to help you.


Must be a PC user...:p

Uh...I quoted the post I was responding to...I don't know how else to help you.


Must be a PC user...:p

The part you quoted is reffering to many of the traits that the study is reffering to not all of the traits quoted have anything to do wtih the term "Snob" that has been throwen around

Being lawfull hardly seems like a snob sort of mentality

I have not been able to catch the video at work and that may cast a different light on it but it appears he is more discribing some of the "serious market trends" to me.

PC hardware as it is reasonable. Both windows and Linux as operating systems

I hear that a lot from Mac users actually in regards to security. People counter that it's because Windows has a larger market share so therefore the attackers focus their attention there. I kinda doubt that nobody is working on trying to get a virus to propagate through Macs though.

Actually I think what it is, is that all the programmers who are smart enough to create a virus are also smart enough to not buy a mac:D

:sniper:

As a mac user i must say that i am simple outraged at some of the barbaric and simple sickening arguments made out at this tea party of a discussion and i would like to stress that, as you yourself siad: 'Mac users are also more likely to buy organic food, and own hybrid cars.' Sounds alright to me.

As for this being a snob fiasco did it ever occur to you that perhaps i just didn't want to put myself down to the niandathol level of all you loser PC users, whom i hear don't pay for there music?!? disgusting, simple disgusting shame on you all!!!

*i would like to point out to all PC users that this mail is a joke and that there are lots of people I know who own PC who are just lovely people, a bit slow in the head perhaps but just lovely*

As IT support for years I have found both the Mac and MS users to be about equally knoledgeable of their OS ... Some rise above in both classes but they are few and far between

So what you're saying is that hardly even one out of ten people can explain even approximately what an operating system is, and that about half will claim that they've never even heard of a product called Windows/OS X?

Maybe we're dumb where I live, because a lot of people will respond to the question "which version of Windows do you have?" with "what do you mean, I have a Dell", or something else equally stupid. On the other hand, Mac users at least chose their product. They don't go into any random store and get a "computer", they actively choose the Mac. Maybe they stink as much when it comes to using it as their Windows brethren, but at least they chose.

Why am I even responding seriously to this? It was just a joke.

So what you're saying is that hardly even one out of ten people can explain even approximately what an operating system is, and that about half will claim that they've never even heard of a product called Windows/OS X?

Maybe we're dumb where I live, because a lot of people will respond to the question "which version of Windows do you have?" with "what do you mean, I have a Dell", or something else equally stupid. On the other hand, Mac users at least chose their product. They don't go into any random store and get a "computer", they actively choose the Mac. Maybe they stink as much when it comes to using it as their Windows brethren, but at least they chose.

Why am I even responding seriously to this? It was just a joke.

I have heard "Its a Mac?" about the same ammount of times in response to "What operating system are you using" which inevatably leads to "How do I tell?" When asked which version (Same with windows)

To me that does not speek volumes of knoledge above the "Its a dell" they are basically regurgitating their hardware manufacture either way. For most "Choosing a mac" means just as much going to a store and pointing at one in their price range. Again harly seems to rise above the average there the choice is not much different one way or another for the standard user

I have talked to thousands of users over most of the united states (and world) It may not be statistically sound but Its a lot closer then any other data i have seen otherwise.

To me that does not speek volumes of knoledge above the "Its a dell" they are basically regurgitating their hardware manufacture either way.

Sure, but the point I was trying to make is that almost every Mac owner is aware that there is an alternative in Windows (or a "regular" computer), while most Windows users aren't aware that there is anything else. They didn't choose. The Mac owners did.

I mean, where do you even buy a Mac? I have no idea, aside from their web store. You really have to go out of your way to find one, unless you live close to an Apple store. The risk of getting a Mac by accident is near zero.

The part you quoted is reffering to many of the traits that the study is reffering to not all of the traits quoted have anything to do wtih the term "Snob" that has been throwen around

Being lawfull hardly seems like a snob sort of mentality

I have not been able to catch the video at work and that may cast a different light on it but it appears he is more discribing some of the "serious market trends" to me.

*snip*

The part I quoted said that Mac users were more likely to pay for their music, probably because of iTunes. So apparently, using that logic, to avoid being a snob you have to steal/illegally download music. If obeying the law makes me a snob, then I'm a snob. That was the gist of my post. You then said "what?" which led to this mess. Clear now?

The part I quoted said that Mac users were more likely to pay for their music, probably because of iTunes. So apparently, using that logic, to avoid being a snob you have to steal/illegally download music. If obeying the law makes me a snob, then I'm a snob. That was the gist of my post. You then said "what?" which led to this mess. Clear now?
Yeah but that comment does not make sense if the trait of paying for music was not under the "snob" charicteristics but rather the "Serious Market trends" portion which is what it appears to me to be at least.

Yeah but that comment does not make sense if the trait of paying for music was not under the "snob" charicteristics but rather the "Serious Market trends" portion which is what it appears to me to be at least.

What are you on about? I replied to the OP article's characterization of Mac users as law abiding with regard to music acquisition, which was in the article's overall context of describing Mac users as snobbier than PC users. I simply said that if paying for what I consume makes me a snob, then I'm a snob. If I missed something about "serious market trends" (a phrase which cracks me up every time I re-read it) in the OP article, I'm sorry. Forget I posted anything.

Sure, but the point I was trying to make is that almost every Mac owner is aware that there is an alternative in Windows (or a "regular" computer), while most Windows users aren't aware that there is anything else. They didn't choose. The Mac owners did.

I mean, where do you even buy a Mac? I have no idea, aside from their web store. You really have to go out of your way to find one, unless you live close to an Apple store. The risk of getting a Mac by accident is near zero.

I have never had any PC users be un-aware of the Mac alternitive even if they did not choose it. The act of choosing an alternitive to the market trend does not nessisarily make the user any more tech savvi I know plenty of Mac users that rather then going with market trends choose to go with what they have "always used"

Plenty of places sell Macs around here ... there is an apple store not too far away along with most of the college campuses which are a popular choice up here as well as web ... pretty simmilar cross section to how most people get PC's except a few less retail stores cary them.

Sure, but the point I was trying to make is that almost every Mac owner is aware that there is an alternative in Windows (or a "regular" computer), while most Windows users aren't aware that there is anything else. They didn't choose. The Mac owners did.


Hogwash. Anybody who has worked with software know there are alternatives. That is why there are OS wars. Unix vs Windows, Windows vs Linux, and to a lessor extent windows vs mac(speaking for the corporate setting).


I mean, where do you even buy a Mac? I have no idea, aside from their web store. You really have to go out of your way to find one, unless you live close to an Apple store. The risk of getting a Mac by accident is near zero.

There are mac stores and people who sell macs all over the place. The local unis and community colleges sell them too. Even the local schools have access to them.

I have never had any PC users be un-aware of the Mac alternitive even if they did not choose it. The act of choosing an alternitive to the market trend does not nessisarily make the user any more tech savvi I know plenty of Mac users that rather then going with market trends choose to go with what they have "always used"

Plenty of places sell Macs around here ... there is an apple store not too far away along with most of the college campuses which are a popular choice up here as well as web ... pretty simmilar cross section to how most people get PC's except a few less retail stores cary them.

I have met people who don't know there is anything other than a "computer", meaning a PC with Windows. I've never walked into an electronics store and seen a Mac, and they are almost never advertised (I work for the Swedish Post creating the fold of ads you get in the mail, so I read all of it). You almost can't buy a Mac in Sweden unless you know of Apple's website, or maybe happen to stumble upon an Apple store (if they even exist) in a large city. Perhaps you're right that it's easier elsewhere.

Hogwash. Anybody who has worked with software know there are alternatives. That is why there are OS wars. Unix vs Windows, Windows vs Linux, and to a lessor extent windows vs mac(speaking for the corporate setting).



There are mac stores and people who sell macs all over the place. The local unis and community colleges sell them too. Even the local schools have access to them.

Again, not here. And the percentage of computer users who participate in OS wars is extremely small.

I have met people who don't know there is anything other than a "computer", meaning a PC with Windows. I've never walked into an electronics store and seen a Mac, and they are almost never advertised (I work for the Swedish Post creating the fold of ads you get in the mail, so I read all of it). You almost can't buy a Mac in Sweden unless you know of Apple's website, or maybe happen to stumble upon an Apple store (if they even exist) in a large city. Perhaps you're right that it's easier elsewhere.

It is easier elsewhere. There are three main Apple stores in Minnesota alone and the website is simple. And now it's easier still because Best Buy stores have begun to sell Macs.

It is easier elsewhere. There are three main Apple stores in Minnesota alone and the website is simple. And now it's easier still because Best Buy stores have begun to sell Macs.

Yeah for all intents and purposes around here one is not any harder to get then the other for the average shopper

Yeah for all intents and purposes around here one is not any harder to get then the other for the average shopper

It all depends on where you live. Usually the best way is to use the website because of the customization available.

Also, Macs are embodied by Barack while PC's are embodied by Hillary. (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/04/technology/04link.html?ex=1218517200&en=f4c25b765e9aade7&ei=5087&WT.mc_id=TE-D-I-NYT-MOD-MOD-M033-ROS-0108-HDR&WT.mc_ev=click&mkt=TE-D-I-NYT-MOD-MOD-M033-ROS-0108-HDR)


Cause this discussion was altogether too civilized. >.>

Sure, but the point I was trying to make is that almost every Mac owner is aware that there is an alternative in Windows (or a "regular" computer), while most Windows users aren't aware that there is anything else. They didn't choose. The Mac owners did.

I mean, where do you even buy a Mac? I have no idea, aside from their web store. You really have to go out of your way to find one, unless you live close to an Apple store. The risk of getting a Mac by accident is near zero.
Go out of your way? You will find them at every store that sells computers (Circuit City, Future Shop, Staples, etc).