NationStates Jolt Archive

Native Americans had been resistant to the diseases of the Old World colonizers? Would they have been able to stand a chance against the Spanish? The English? What tribes/nations do you think would have had the best chance of staying alive?

Read the Book "Guns,Germs, and steel". It wasn't just the invaders diseases, it was their technology too.

ENOUGH USE OF THE CONDITIONAL TENSE!

The present, I say, the presesnt! AIEEE!

Of course. By the time the colonists arrived most Native Americans where dead already.

Europe failed to colonize Africa very well partly because African was full of diseases that Europeans weren't used to.

And yeah, guns germs and steel is an interesting book.

Read the Book "Guns,Germs, and steel". It wasn't just the invaders diseases, it was their technology too.

I've read the book. I actually have another one of his books, "Collapse".

I don't doubt that cavalry, plus gunpowder weapons was a big help for the invaders, BUT I think the Natives had knowledge of terrain, more numbers, and defense on their side. I would guess that with the more people alive from the absence of disease, the better chance there would have been for survival.

I don't doubt that Calvary... [was] a big help for the invaders

Why do you people always have to bring Jesus into this?

;)

Why do you people always have to bring Jesus into this?

;)

Sorry, I only woke up an hour ago. Long night and all. Still not thinking too clearly. :)

The United States and Canada would probably look, ethnically, a lot more like Latin America.

It's "cavalry." :)

Edit: Sorry for being a Spelling Nazi. I just find that error funny.

Grr:mad:


:p Thanks for the heads up. :D

It would have been much harder for the colonizers, especially Spain.

Either they would have fought on for another 100 years or given up like they did on Africa.

Are we assuming that the diseases also wouldn't go the other way though? Because the Native Americans sure gave us our fair share of sickness.

i think it would have given the europeans pause.

the natives were vastly weakened and outgunned. but with larger numbers they wouldnt have been a pushover.

it may have given them time to better assess the threat and pick up the technology necessary to repel the invaders. they were very tough fighters and would have been hard to beat on a level technological playing field.

Native Americans had been resistant to the diseases of the Old World colonizers? Would they have been able to stand a chance against the Spanish? The English? What tribes/nations do you think would have had the best chance of staying alive?

If by some miracle, the Americas resisted colonization, the North, Pantagonia, and the Amazon would've looked very similar to Africa today, with the Aztecs and Incas being minor regional powers. The story of the Americas would've been just as tragic had the colonizers failed as had they succeeded (which they did)

Native Americans had been resistant to the diseases of the Old World colonizers? Would they have been able to stand a chance against the Spanish? The English? What tribes/nations do you think would have had the best chance of staying alive?

Before the Europeans came, there was an estimated population of over 5 million Native Americans in the so-called "New World"..I think they would've stood more than a chance.

Read the Book "Guns,Germs, and steel". It wasn't just the invaders diseases, it was their technology too.

Wifes reading that for college. I plan of reading it for fun. Personally, I think that the French would have supplied guns to the natives to undermine the British and Spanish attempts to conquer the New World, negating the technological gap.

the mormons

Of course. By the time the colonists arrived most Native Americans where dead already.

Europe failed to colonize Africa very well partly because African was full of diseases that Europeans weren't used to.

And yeah, guns germs and steel is an interesting book.

The other difference however is that most of colonizaton of Africa was expressly economic in form - it was to get rich, and that was it. In some cases, you would even move back to England after getting rich. But in the US the colonization was initially by religious fanatics - in other words, people who will do anything, and don't want to leave because they are free to be as weird and pious as they want. There was Virginia, but that was a temporary backwater that served at best for exploration, Massacheutsets and Connecticut was where the true settlement really began.

Might have stopped the colonization of Mexico though, as both the Aztecs and Mayans would've still been strong enough to fend off a European invasion and domestic threats, and it would've made the conflicts a little bit bloodier. They were almost strong enough as it was. So maybe the result in North America would've been two competing powers: a hyper-religious fundamentalist warrior state to the north (Puritan America) with more catholic religious nutwig allies in Spanish California and Florida, and other religious groups joining in on the fun to help them out, probably joined together eventually, and a powerful mathematically advanced civilization to the South. Probably would've prevented America from having the small level of continental conflict that it had in it's history though.

The other thing two is that some of you are assuming a pan-Indian state, as if the Native Americans were some huge coherent civilization with a centralized government and army. They were no such thing, and some of them hated each other so much, that even with the "time to pick up on new technologies" and what not, they still would've sided with the Europeans to kill of someone they wanted dead, like the Hopi against the Navajo, who without the United States would've been wiped off the face of the Earth, or the Mandan against the various nomadic peoples that eventually proved their end. And yes, the Indians did adapt some technology - the Commanche had the best light cavalry in the world at the time they were fighting. But I tell you, while it would've changed the picture somewhat, I don't believe it would've stopped the United States, it just would've made it a little bloodier and maybe hardened America against honor in war.