NationStates Jolt Archive

In your opinion, what should the limits of Québec's "Language Police" be?

As a part of protecting Québecois culture, the government enforces a French-first rule. There is considerable debate, however, on whether they go too far in some cases, or whether they are too soft.

This article (http://www.cbc.ca/cp/Oddities/080215/K021511AU.html) describes the most recent high-profile issue, the case of a pub which has English-only signs imported from Ireland as decorations, and also has some of its menus and event signage only in English. From that same article, here are some previous examples:

1996: - A woman warns the owner of a Quebec pet store she might get in touch with language authorities because Peekaboo, the parrot she wanted to buy, didn't speak French.

1999:- The Old Navy chain is asked to rename its stores "La Vieille Riviere." It never happens.

2000: - The owner of an Indian restaurant is told he's breaking the law by having coasters for "Double Diamond," a British beer.

2001: Some people express disappointment that race-car driver Jacques Villeneuve calls his restaurant "Newtown."

2005:Language authorities say they will investigate complaints that Montreal Mayor Gerald Tremblay's party used the word "Go" on its posters and pamphlets, as in "Go Montreal."

2007: - Imperial Oil says it will keep its Quebec-only "Marche Express" name for its Esso gas stations after protests surfaced regarding a proposal to change the name to "On The Run" as they are known elsewhere in North America.

2007: About 50 people protest outside a Second Cup outlet to demonstrate against the words "Les cafes" being dropped from "Les cafes Second Cup" at some of the chain's outlets.

2007: Language activists decry the fact that callers to many Quebec government offices are told to "press nine" for English before instructions are delivered in French. Some of the departments have since changed the message to put English at the end.
So, how far should the government be able to go to preserve the heritage of the nation within the context of a much larger Anglophone culture? How would you balance the freedom to choose one's language and the risk of having it overwhelmed?

The "Language Police" are the margarine of evil, just one calorie, not evil enough for me to worry.

Meh. I don't live there don't care. Why is it that they can have a french first law without mass protests calling it racist like what happens when people in the US have please use english signs?

I kind of like it. I only went to Quebec once. Is it true that it is illegal to say "hello", only "bonjour" is allowed? I think that is cool and quirky.

Why is it that they can have a french first law without mass protests calling it racist like what happens when people in the US have please use english signs?
Seconded!

I demand an answer!

So, how far should the government be able to go to preserve the heritage of the nation within the context of a much larger Anglophone culture? How would you balance the freedom to choose one's language and the risk of having it overwhelmed?
Which nation would this be?

Which nation would this be?
I meant the Francophone nation, in the vein of the two-nations-in-one-country light. I am NOT a Québecois Sovreigntist; nor do I even think French and English Canada are "two solitudes". I do grant that it is a separate culture, though.

Sounds pretty fascist to me.

I meant the Francophone nation, in the vein of the two-nations-in-one-country light. I am NOT a Québecois Sovreigntist; nor do I even think French and English Canada are "two solitudes". I do grant that it is a separate culture, though.

Oh ok, I just get really narked when the Québecois make like they're some kind of superpower - or would be if the Anglos stopped opressing them.

On topic - yes, the language police are being silly. Ok, mandating official French as the official language, fair enough - but decorations? Who gives a shit?

The "Language Police" are the margarine of evil, just one calorie, not evil enough for me to worry.
The Apocalypse must be near. I find myself agreeing with OceanDrive.

I think the preservation of a nation's (or in this case, province's) culture and language are important.

Of course the woman who sued for the non-French parrot was a crazy, but really.
I was in Montreal over Christmas break, and I noticed that quite a few people gave service in English by default, even if I responded in French. I think in places (like Quebec) where a given language is considered (at least socially) to be the primary language, it should come first. It's very rude to assume or demand that service be offered in English.

As they are, the language police are pretty damn annoying but overall harmless. However all it takes is a significant expansion in size and powers, then they'll suddenly have a remarkable similarity to the religious police as best popularized by the Taliban and Saudi Arabia.

I think the preservation of a nation's (or in this case, province's) culture and language are important.

Of course the woman who sued for the non-French parrot was a crazy, but really.
I was in Montreal over Christmas break, and I noticed that quite a few people gave service in English by default, even if I responded in French. I think in places (like Quebec) where a given language is considered (at least socially) to be the primary language, it should come first. It's very rude to assume or demand that service be offered in English.

Though on the other hand, it's also very rude to insist that one language be the only option available to anybody, and speakers of other languages be treated as second-rate citizens.

Do you people not see what's so horribly wrong with this?

I think the preservation of a nation's (or in this case, province's) culture and language are important.

Of course the woman who sued for the non-French parrot was a crazy, but really.
I was in Montreal over Christmas break, and I noticed that quite a few people gave service in English by default, even if I responded in French. I think in places (like Quebec) where a given language is considered (at least socially) to be the primary language, it should come first. It's very rude to assume or demand that service be offered in English.

About 30% of Montrealers speak English only

Meh. I don't live there don't care. Why is it that they can have a french first law without mass protests calling it racist like what happens when people in the US have please use english signs?

Seconded!

I demand an answer!

Because Francophones in Canada and Anglophones are generally of the same race?

Seconded!

I demand an answer!
Because Québéc is full of angry people, who will moan about anything, just under their breath, whereas the rest of Canada is full of people who are, on the whole, pretty chillaxed about everything.

Because Francophones in Canada and Anglophones are generally of the same race?
So? It's not race that's the issue....

If someone has an "English only" sign up and people from Espana walk into their bar speaking Spanish, do you think the people will be like, "oh, well you're not that brown, just a bit tan but you can still classify as White thus our 'English only' sign doesn't apply to you"......??????

No. It's a cultural issue....same as in Quebec.

So? It's not race that's the issue....

If someone has an "English only" sign up and people from Espana walk into their bar speaking Spanish, do you think the people will be like, "oh, well you're not that brown, just a bit tan but you can still classify as White thus our 'English only' sign doesn't apply to you"......??????

No. It's a cultural issue....same as in Quebec.

LOL, it's not like your only allowed to speak french. An english only sign is not a sign that says only english people are allowed, it is a sign that has english words on it and no french translation.

Ah Quebec, the little province that likes to pretend it's a nation yet still feel like it's entitled to special rights in Canada... :p

About 30% of Montrealers speak English only

Do you mean on the island or the greater Montreal area?

As someone living in Montreal, I don't find it to be difficult to deal with the french signs. And considering the high immigrant population, it is also pretty easy to be served in English or whichever other language you speak.

Yes, it does have racist overtones.

I kind of like it. I only went to Quebec once. Is it true that it is illegal to say "hello", only "bonjour" is allowed? I think that is cool and quirky.

No. Allô, is a French word and sounds pretty much the same in French and English. Also, it isn't illegal to speak English there, but they want to preserve French culture and language so that's why they have silly laws. And how is banning a language cool? As someone who might move there I think that that would be horrible, I speak French excruciatingly slow.

So, how far should the government be able to go to preserve the heritage of the nation within the context of a much larger Anglophone culture? How would you balance the freedom to choose one's language and the risk of having it overwhelmed?

I think that cultural differences are a treasure to be preserved. Since Quebec is the only french-speaking place in Northern America (there is an overseas department of France in Southern America), and risks to be submerged by the surrounding english-speaking majority, I think that harsh measures are needed and justified, even if sometimes they degenerate into silly behaviour.

Anyway, if you want to see REAL mess, take Suedtirol. Mostly German-speakers, with significant Italian-speaking minority, within the Italian state, and Ladin (not Latin, Ladin) as official language in some areas.

No. Allô, is a French word and sounds pretty much the same in French and English. Also, it isn't illegal to speak English there, but they want to preserve French culture and language so that's why they have silly laws. And how is banning a language cool? As someone who might move there I think that that would be horrible, I speak French excruciatingly slow.
English has not been banned. You know this. Did I immply it was? The Hello thing isn't banning a language, and I do think it sounds fun.

English has not been banned. You know this. Did I immply it was?
"Is it true that it is illegal to say "hello", only "bonjour" is allowed?" - you.

That does imply certain things.

The Hello thing isn't banning a language, and I do think it sounds fun.
It's banning a word for no apparent reason. And getting in trouble for saying "Hello/Allo" is in direct violation of free speech.

So, how far should the government be able to go to preserve the heritage of the nation within the context of a much larger Anglophone culture? How would you balance the freedom to choose one's language and the risk of having it overwhelmed?

Québec is a nation now?

Hey now, do not forget Saint-Pierre Et Miquelon!!! It has a population over six thousand! I have never been there, but I think it would be a fun place to spend a Summer brushing up on my French. So what if I live in walking distance of the Quebec border, SP&M is (Poltically) Europe!

Yeah, you're right, I forgot that!

(timewarrrrrrpppp....)

I think that cultural differences are a treasure to be preserved. Since Quebec is the only french-speaking place in Northern America (there is an overseas department of France in Southern America), and risks to be submerged by the surrounding english-speaking majority, I think that harsh measures are needed and justified, even if sometimes they degenerate into silly behaviour.
Hey now, do not forget Saint-Pierre Et Miquelon!!! It has a population over six thousand! I have never been there, but I think it would be a fun place to spend a Summer brushing up on my French. So what if I live in walking distance of the Quebec border, SP&M is (Poltically) Europe!

So, how far should the government be able to go to preserve the heritage of the nation within the context of a much larger Anglophone culture? How would you balance the freedom to choose one's language and the risk of having it overwhelmed?

Canada and the U.S. should have an official language. In the U.S. it should be English. In Canada it should be up to the Canadians to decide between English, French, Spanish or some other language as an official language of the country. :rolleyes:

After that all legal documents of the country and all the states/provinces should be produced in the official language only.

That's silly. If the people living in the nation prefer French, let them speak French. If they don't prefer French, don't have them speak French. The idea of government signs being bilingual is fine, but if an individual shop only wants to use one language, let them.

Canada and the U.S. should have an official language. In the U.S. it should be English.

Why?

Though on the other hand, it's also very rude to insist that one language be the only option available to anybody, and speakers of other languages be treated as second-rate citizens.

Do you people not see what's so horribly wrong with this?

Well, when I lived in Spain they expected me to speak Spanish, not English. When I was in Germany, they expected me speak German, not English. Were they being rude, or did I have a right to demand they speak English. :rolleyes:

Why?

Why not? Is there something wrong with a country having an official language?

Why not? Is there something wrong with a country having an official language?

The U.S. has done fine without one for over 2 hundred years, what need is there to change now?

Québec is a nation now?

A "Nation Within A Nation", yes. http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/11/22/harper-quebec.html

In Canada it should be up to the Canadians to decide between English, French, Spanish or some other language as an official language of the country.

Except for the fact that we have a huge percentage of the population that speaks French and we like that? Why on earth school Canada just have one official language? Learning two is an inconvenience, but not that hard that it would be worth in to have another October Crisis over.

Canada and the U.S. should have an official language. In the U.S. it should be English. In Canada it should be up to the Canadians to decide between English, French, Spanish or some other language as an official language of the country. :rolleyes:

After that all legal documents of the country and all the states/provinces should be produced in the official language only.

The official languages of Canada ARE French and English. There is not much Spanish, and the third most popular language is Mandarin Chinese. Documents are printed in both Eng and French

A "Nation Within A Nation", yes. http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/11/22/harper-quebec.html


Meh, All I can say is that seems silly to me, but whatever, its not my problem.

The next step willl be the thought police. All hail big brother! (Only slightly sarcastic)

The Parti Quebecious are idiots, English Canada should bomb the whole damn province.

Because Francophones in Canada and Anglophones are generally of the same race?

that doesnt matter at all. its not racist to make someone speak the most spoken language in the nation. an immigrant should learn the language if they want to live there.


on a side note, i hate the way english is spoken everywhere. i wish i wasn't born speaking it. i would never learn it. people should preserve their culture, which is why i agree with the stuff to keep english minimal. some of it is rediculous, but french should be first there.

The U.S. has done fine without one for over 2 hundred years, what need is there to change now?

the usa is never a good example for what to do.

it is a bunch of liberal pussy pushovers with no identity who overcompensate for past wrongs and are scared to step on someones toes even if it is the right thing to do....

unless your in the south, like me, which is a bunch of retarded redneck racist republican hicks. 1. FOOTBALL WOOOO!!!! 2. BUDWEISER!!!!! 3. LYNYRD SKYNYRD!!!! (i enjoy two of those, though...i guess im a redneck too)

the north and south should be different countries...but the coastal regions in the southeast should belong to the north, as it is just a bunch of old people retired from the north.

none of that had any relevance to the topic

<SNIP>

You have reading comprehension issues apparently.

I was responding Celt's assertion that the U.S. should have an official language (and that it should be english).


Also I wouldn't say that the U.S. is never a good example, rarely maybe, recently - heck no, but never?

Canada and the U.S. should have an official language. In the U.S. it should be English. In Canada it should be up to the Canadians to decide between English, French, Spanish or some other language as an official language of the country. :rolleyes:

After that all legal documents of the country and all the states/provinces should be produced in the official language only.

Trilingual official countries > Bilingual official countries > Monolingual official countries

In your opinion, what should the limits of Québec's "Language Police" be?

As a part of protecting Québecois culture, the government enforces a French-first rule. There is considerable debate, however, on whether they go too far in some cases, or whether they are too soft.

This article (http://www.cbc.ca/cp/Oddities/080215/K021511AU.html) describes the most recent high-profile issue, the case of a pub which has English-only signs imported from Ireland as decorations, and also has some of its menus and event signage only in English. From that same article, here are some previous examples:


So, how far should the government be able to go to preserve the heritage of the nation within the context of a much larger Anglophone culture? How would you balance the freedom to choose one's language and the risk of having it overwhelmed?

Je dis que nous décollons et arme nucléaire l'emplacement entier de l'orbite. C'est la seule manière d'être sûr. ((courtesy of Babelfish))

:D

that doesnt matter at all. its not racist to make someone speak the most spoken language in the nation. an immigrant should learn the language if they want to live there.


on a side note, i hate the way english is spoken everywhere. i wish i wasn't born speaking it. i would never learn it. people should preserve their culture, which is why i agree with the stuff to keep english minimal. some of it is rediculous, but french should be first there.
If your "culture" is solely defined by the language you speak, you're doing it wrong.

New Brunswick functions just fine with French and English. Too bad Quebec can't figure this part out.

Je dis que nous décollons et arme nucléaire l'emplacement entier de l'orbite. C'est la seule manière d'être sûr. ((courtesy of Babelfish))

:D

"I say that we detach/separate and nuclear weapon the whole place of the orbit. It's the only manner to be sure."

Je dis que nous décollons et arme nucléaire l'emplacement entier de l'orbite. C'est la seule manière d'être sûr. All your Quebec are belong to us. :D

http://www.radio-canada.ca/nouvelles/ressources/images/2007/normales/s/st/070624st-jean-maisonneuve_n.jpg

English is taking over and will ultimately win. I went to Montreal in 2005 and this lifeguard at the top of a waterslide at this awesome indoor waterparky thing said "Go" instead of "Alle/Allez"...

The official languages of Canada ARE French and English. There is not much Spanish, and the third most popular language is Mandarin Chinese. Documents are printed in both Eng and French
That is true on a countrywide level, but as always Canada looks very different going province-by-province and city-by-city. In Halifax, for example, the most popular languages are English, Arabic, and then French, in that order. In Toronto one is waaay more likely to hear Hindi or Italian than French. Still, I am a fan of keeping English and French as official languages. I think that a major problem is that the Anglos put very little effort into learning French, whereas any Francophone Canadian would really have to try not to pick up English living in our culture. In an ideal Canada, any conversation could be had with one person speaking one language, the other person speaking the other language, and both understanding completely.

Forcing parrots to be bilingually trained is certainly a stretch, but I can see the value in having Human communications made in both. I am not too concerned with the pub signs, since "Have a pint of Guinness" is so trivial it does not seem worth translating, but if the government insisted, why not just put up a little translation plaque beneath it, the same way exhibits at museums have little placards.

"I say that we detach/separate and nuclear weapon the whole place of the orbit. It's the only manner to be sure."

Well, that's not quite what it looked like when I typed it in, but I think the message gets through. :)

I think that cultural differences are a treasure to be preserved. Since Quebec is the only french-speaking place in Northern America (there is an overseas department of France in Southern America),
Have you forgotten southern Louisiana?

Have you forgotten southern Louisiana?

Wouldn't that be creole?

If it is, it's not quite the same thing.

It's banning a word for no apparent reason. And getting in trouble for saying "Hello/Allo" is in direct violation of free speech.

Saying 'Hello' is only illegal if you are greeting someone as part of your job, like the Walmart guy, or a receptionist. If the client then answers in English, the staff is under no legal obligation to continue speaking in French. The vast majority of businesses are billingual, and if you want more than a McJob here, you better be bilingual as well.

Québec is a nation now?

Officially, yes. It is not a nation-state though, as Canada is.

Canada and the U.S. should have an official language... In Canada it should be up to the Canadians to decide between English, French, Spanish or some other language as an official language of the country. :rolleyes:

We already have two official languages. Perhaps you could read the wiki article on Canada before coming up with this stuff. Then you wouldn't make such glaring errors.

French canadian are only 6 million in the 250 million of north America. So yes, it's a concern to preserve the native language.

Is it true that it is illegal to say "hello", only "bonjour" is allowed?

Here, I'm frankly concerned by the credulity/stupidity of what I've read... English is used in many workplace environment, INCLUDING government ministry. Yes there's more opportunity for a French than an Anglo, but if you have some ambition, you can go much higher only in english than only in french.

Now for those of you comparing the French police to the gestapo, keep in mind we're talking a total of about 10 peoples to cover the entire province, who will give you a 1000$ find if English letter on your signs are bigger then French ones...

NOW that's fascism!!!

Well, when I lived in Spain they expected me to speak Spanish, not English. When I was in Germany, they expected me speak German, not English. Were they being rude, or did I have a right to demand they speak English. :rolleyes:
That wasn't my experience. In France, if I came out with some bad French, they would seem at least a little appreciative that I was trying; but in Germany, if I tried to speak German they would quickly switch to English to stop me from massacring their language any further.